I'm sorry.

You're fine. Jungling. J-U-M-G-G.

Jungling.

Yep.

Okay got it. Today we are very excited to be talking to Hannah Jungling and

a few guests who will be popping in and out of the interview. So currently she's

in Georgia but we're gonna get more context on where she is and what's

happening. So before we even get into our usual first question I'm gonna

ask where you are and what you're up to at this very moment.

So we're hanging out in Georgia at the university hospital waiting on a cute

little baby to show up.

Very exciting. So we're gonna get more info on that, but we'll start with

our inner usual way so that people don't get confused. So we always start

out with our first question, which is what are you growing? So we know a

baby, but that can also cover crops, livestock, careers, businesses, all

kinds of other stuff. So Hannah, what else are you growing?

So we have a horse farm here in Aiken, South Carolina. And so we breed a

few horses a year. We do a little bit of selling, a little bit of training,

lots of showing. We also are currently growing a couple baby goats.

And there's a bunch of turkeys in the incubator and a couple of eggs sitting

under a hen. So we're just all sorts of things.

That's a lot of stuff. What kinds of horses and what kinds of showing?

I'm not a horse person, but I'm sure there are people out there who are

curious.

No, you're fine. So we do mostly Connemara Crosses. So they're an Irish

bred, smaller horse. And we cross those with warm bloods and sport horses

at home to do three day eventing and dressage is our main competing style. So

Very

it's a lot of

cool.

fun.

Yeah. And so are the turkeys and chickens for your own use? You're selling

them? Are you, what's?

The turkey we normally name sometime in the summer, Thanksgiving, Christmas

and New Year's.

Yeah.

And then the chickens are, we have all laying hens right now. At some

point we'd like to get doing some meat hens. And then we just got into,

we got two baby goats and the female will be a dairy goat and the male

is her little companion. He loses his nut nuts here next month.

And Hannah, you have one other child, right?

We do, we have a six year old, almost seven, Tempe.

So, I was wondering, I put this in here. I figured out that we've known each other

for 23 years.

That's insane.

Were you younger than Tempy when we met?

No, I probably would have been about the same age. I would probably have

been seven or eight. So about the same age. Isn't that crazy?

For like our super scandalous moment for the week, my mom dated Hannah's dad for

a while and that's how we know each other. So Hannah, other question, are you any

taller than you were

Nope.

at seven?

Yeah, nope.

No, I didn't think

It

so.

just all stopped, Katie, I'm telling you.

You can't tell from the video, but Hannah is, I don't know, like a foot shorter

than I am.

I barely hit five foot and all my brothers are over six. I'm not sure

where the bullshit happened, but it did.

I think they knew that that much attitude in a bigger body would be dangerous.

that,

So

I'll

they,

leave out.

you know, like a golf handicap or a racing handicap, you know, handicapper a little

for everybody's safety.

I love it.

So Hannah, did you grow up on a farm or do you have a background in egg?

What's your farm story?

We grew up in town, but I grew up on the horse like I was on the horse

farm all the time. So I grew up at a farm out in Stone City, Iowa, that

I was at daily, constantly. I mean, I've always been just completely horse

obsessed. So starting the time I was about six, I was out there constantly.

But now I

So, Hannah.

grew up in town.

that leads in real well to how did you manage to make being a horse girl, like,

a real job? You know, for anyone else who's wondering how to make

Oh,

this

that's

transition.

good. That's good. You don't make money on horses. So you make money other

ways. So I was a massage therapist for 15 years and then I taught riding

lessons on the side for 15 years and trained horses. And you had a great

time doing it. And when we moved to South Carolina, we just decided we

wanted to take a step back and have more family time. And so we built

out our farm ourselves. And like I said, we breed a little bit on the side.

We sell a little bit. Do a tiny bit of training, but I actually do a

lot more braiding now So I braid horses at night for the hunter jumper

shows which is extraordinarily lucrative like embarrassingly lucrative and

You know you're in the with the horses at night and they're quiet and they're

happy and they know the job and it's just it's really nice and then I have

my whole week to do my normal life at home with my family and The barn is

you know our farm is just lovely and quiet and serene. It's just it's

perfect. So I mean, do I make a living necessarily off the horses? No,

because that's impossible. They're way too expensive. But we incorporate

So,

life.

you're like really living the horse girl dream by getting paid to play with your

horse's hair.

Literally, Katie, it's ridiculous. We finished

That's

the weekend.

amazing.

I finished the weekend, and it's just ridiculous. I mean, it's wild. So

it's super fun. We absolutely love it.

That's bonkers.

Yeah,

I love it.

right.

I'm so here for this.

Right.

And

And

Hannah.

Tempe practices braiding all the time.

Does she have the best hairstyles for crazy hair day?

No, because I'm terrible at doing human hair. Like terrible.

Oh

So

yeah?

mine's short, can't

Yeah.

cut all that pass together. And so I'm terrible at doing hair. So I can

braid hers a little bit and stuff, but not a whole lot.

There's just not quite enough of it. Like there needs to, she

No,

needs to grow it for

so,

years.

you know, the funny things to complain about, you know, hers is so soft

and silky and horses are much more horse

Yeah.

and they don't complain.

Yeah, that's true. And your husband's in the room with you as well. Does

he work on farm or in egg or what's your story?

So I have a normal job, project manager for a consumer firm. Normal.

A normal

And then

job.

I come home and I get to work to the bone fixing all the things that

the horse girls break through today. So yeah, that's what we do.

That sounds about right. So, yeah. So Hannah, we talk a lot on this podcast

about, I mean, Katie and I end up going back to this a lot about becoming

parents for the first time and that transition from

Absolutely.

being a human unto yourself and then, you know, the transition to being

a parent. What was that like for you with your daughter?

It was, a lot of it was good and a lot of it was challenging. I think it's,

I think the evolution of becoming a parent is challenging in every fact

of the matter. We had, we had complications with our, not complications,

but just things we had to adapt to. Bryce was working full time and going

to school full time and I'm self-employed. So Tempe was with me 24 seven

and, you know, we just had to work through figuring those things out.

And I was so fortunate that I was able to, I was a very good milk cow.

And so I produced a lot of milk. It was very simple to just have her attach

to me all the time. She lived, I mean, she literally lived attached to my

body for the first two years and was with us at the barn all the time. I

taught with her constantly. She traveled. She was 10 days old at her first

tour show, three states away. You know, she just she had to kind of jump

and just roll with the punches like the rest of us. But it definitely was

an adaptation. to figure out and then moving down here and figuring

out school and everything. Our schools aren't as exceptional. And so just

figuring out the processes of everything. And I think as moms, parents

in general, we take on the role of you want to produce a kind and gentle

human to give back to the world because we have to give them back to

the world. And so Bryce and I have really taken a lot of responsibility

over that, that we want to make sure we're producing a good little human.

that will hopefully go on and do good little human things someday in

the world. But it's, yeah, it's a challenge. I think people that don't

think it's a challenge are definitely toying with themselves.

And Hannah, before we get any further, how many horses does Tempe have now?

Oh, well, let's see. So she's got her hot sauce pony, who is the cutest pony

in the entire world that's ever existed. Arlene, Katie will have to send

you pictures on Facebook. It is like literally cutest pony. And then

she recently hijacked my husband's horse. And then she's got her eyes

set on one of my yearlings that she seems to think is going to be hers.

So, but she's, you know, going back to that, you know, raising children,

I think it's so important to raise them around animals. And I always

tell Bryce, my favorite thing in the whole world is when she doesn't hear

me behind her or see me and you hear her talking to the animals. She's

so sweet and gentle and she's at the fence and the babies have their head

over the fence and she's smooching them and telling them how beautiful

they are and talking in baby voices to them and snuggling the cats and all

of that. It's really special to see that relationship growing.

So part of why we're talking to so many of you today and in the hospital, do you

wanna just tell us why there are so many people in this room with you, Hannah?

So we've got a bit of a party going on right now. We only ever wanted one

child, and we felt very fortunate that we had a very healthy pregnancy and a

very healthy birth, and we have a wonderful little girl. And we always

talked about being surrogates and that it would be a really cool experience,

and it just kinda never panned out for us, and we've talked about it for about

six years. And so then we just, life was a bit crazy and busy, and we

thought maybe it just wasn't in the cards. And I don't know, it was over

a year ago now, about a year and a half ago, I started thinking about it

again, but I didn't really wanna say anything to Bryce until I'd sat with

it for a bit. So I kinda sat with it for like three or four months.

And then poor Bryce, I like just dumped it on him one day. I was like,

so I really wanna be a surrogate. And I, if you're in for this, then let's do

it. If you don't, then like we won't. But like, I really wanna do this.

And being the ever supportive guy that he is, he was like, well, hell yeah,

let's do it. So. we found an agency, which is a bit of a challenge. I

live a very active life, obviously, and a lot of the agencies want you

to be very, yeah, very sedentary. I mean, it's crazy. They just, they don't want

you doing anything. And so I finally found an agency that was okay with

me riding through the pregnancy and living our normal active life, running

a busy farm. And they immediately set us up with a couple from Australia. and

they didn't realize our parameters and our parameters were that we weren't gonna

carry for anyone that was straight. So they set us up with this lovely

couple from Australia and I wish I could have been a fly on the wall

when they had to call them back and say, actually the surrogate won't

carry for you because you're not gay. But the very next couple they paired

us with was Chris and Jose who were here with us and we absolutely fell

in love with them the moment we talked to them on the phone and immediately

became friends on Facebook and got each other's numbers. It's a very long

process. We met in January last year, and the transfer actually wasn't

until September? September. And so through that time, you know, I had to

make lots of trips up to Indianapolis, and we got to spend a lot of

time together and get to know each other really well. And it was like

icing on the cake when we first met them, and we, Bryce immediately started

stalking them, and they had an Airdale on their website, their dog groomers.

And as Katie knows, we love Airdales. We lost our beloved Airedale two

years ago. And so Bryce called me the moment he saw it on their website and

he was like, it's them, it's gotta be them. Like it's meant to be, we need

to stick with them. So it's just been, it's been really fun. We've had

a blast. They've become some of our very best friends. We talk every day.

And now we're at the point where little Emma has decided to come a week

or two early, but she's good and cooked and she's ready. So we're just hanging

out in the hospital.

Yeah, for our listeners, we did not schedule this interview anticipating quite

this level of excitement. But, you know, Hannah's a... She's a trooper, and she

makes me look really low-key and calm. So, you know, she said, well, I'm, you know,

I'm at the hospital, but we can still do the interview. And I was like, hey, are

you sure? Yeah, fine. That's really cool, though, that you got to have this...

love it for sight connection with the parents of your child in such a different way

than we normally think of.

Yeah, it's been super awesome and it's been really exciting. It's been really

exciting and we were thrilled. They only had Chris' biological to this child

and he only had one little girl embryo. And so it was very exciting that

little Emma took because they really wanted a little girl. So it's been

super fun.

That is really neat. How have you explained it to your daughter and how does

she understand the process of what's been going on?

So that's actually hysterical. We, depending on how much people do with breeding,

they're familiar or not with the term, but we do a lot of breeding with

horses, right? And we had three Ixie babies last year. Well, Ixie is

the exact same process. So although my daughter has zero idea about natural

birds and the bees, artificial insemination and Ixie and embryos are like

right up her alley. So she has been fortunate enough to be at the vet

clinic when we've done a lot of the processes. And so she's gotten to

see the eggs, the sperm, all of it under the microscope, and then see

the embryos before we insert them into the mares and then follow the ultrasounds

in the process. And eventually she's there when we birth out the foals. So

for her, it was a no brainer. I mean, I just told her, we talked about with

her with her to make sure she was comfortable with it. And we just told

her that it's the exact same process, that we're caring for some very dear

friends that aren't able to carry for themselves. And our family's gonna

help make another family. And as soon as we said icksy, she was like,

oh, so we're making petri dish babies. I was like, yup, that's what we're

doing. So it was easy peasy explaining it to her.

Yeah, that's a good point. We live on a dairy farm and so, you know, one

of my kids' first jobs when they're out in the barn with my husband is,

you know, like carrying the lube for him to do artificial insemination

on cows. So, yeah, breeding and talking about semen and all those kinds

of things are, you know, pretty typical for our kids. So, it probably is easier

for them to understand than kids who aren't in agriculture or used to dealing

with livestock.

Absolutely. Well, now that being said, there has been a time or two where

she's asked like, so is this how I was made? And Bryce and I very politely

are like,

It's a little different.

conversation for a bit.

So... I just totally lost track of where I was, sorry. What's the going forward,

what are you anticipating your relationship being like with this family? Because I mean,

obviously, rather than like an open adoption or something, like, you came at this

whole situation very differently than a lot of families who end up... mixing two

families together like this.

I don't think we anticipated, I don't think Chris and Jose or Bryce and I

anticipated having such a close relationship. I think this was a hope.

I had told Chris when we initially talked that I thought it'd be really

cool if maybe like, we'd get a picture once a year of her as she grows,

because she's not biologically related to me at all. She's a donor egg and

Chris is sperm. But, you know, we've... just we've become so close and

they're literally a part of our family. After Emma's born we'll actually

all go back to the farm for a week, a few days to a week to settle and

get milk supply up and in so we should milk off to them and help them

get their feed under them with a newborn baby and just spend time together

and enjoy time together. But no, I know it's definitely not the norm

and I'm still not quite sure how we got so fortunate to. have the relationship

that we do, but I'm incredibly thankful for it because we definitely want

to watch Emma grow up. And Tempe calls her her little cousin and she's

been sleeping with a little stuffy for the past month because she wants

the stuffy to smell like her so that Emma can take it home and remember

her smell. So it's been really sweet. It's been really, really sweet.

That is so cute.

I love talking to families that come together more intentionally or with more luck

and less.

normal, I guess. I don't know

Yeah.

what to... You know, there's a lot of folks who do things kind of the boy meets

girl, boy and girl get drunk, boy and girl have a baby kind of way. You know, but

it's so cool to think about all the ways that families are made and how many people

that can involve and

Absolutely.

what a gift to be able to give someone.

Absolutely, and they've waited far, I mean, how old were these embryos? Four

years? Well, we started this process, sorry to talk about it. Talk loud.

Hi, this is Jose.

I was gonna say I can only see the ceiling, but

Hahaha

okay. Hahahaha.

So, technically we started this whole process like around four years ago.

And it wasn't until the end of the, I would say probably 2018, beginning

2019, that we decided to go forward cause we weren't really sure if

this is what we really wanted to do. We were not sure if we were ready for

kids, but then like most of our close friends started having kids throughout

COVID and then we were like, we looked at each other and they were like,

yep. This is the path. I mean, all of our friends are having babies.

So I think it's just, I don't know what it is, the universe. whatever you

want to call it. But I think it doesn't. And then, so yeah, we started the

whole process at Midwest Fertility. We called our, an agency close to

where we live by, and which by the way, we still on their waiting list,

waiting for a surrogate. They don't even know that we're actually having

a baby. But we, we created embryos and we, like Hannah mentioned, that

we, they were frozen for a while. because we were still looking for

a surrogate. And then Chris called Andrea, a wonderful person from Midwest

that was helping us throughout the process and desperately called her and

asked if she knew anything or of any agencies that we can call. So she

mentioned one from Texas, that's based in Texas. And what's it called

Chris? Newborn. Newborn. Newborn, yeah. Newborn advantage. Newborn advantage.

And then we called to... Mindy who is

the coordinator. Yeah, you call it. And then we talked to her and that

was like in around 20 towards the end of 2021, November around that time.

We talked to them and we're just like, pretty much we're just like looking

for someone that can help us and guide us the right way. And then January

of 2022, that's when She was like, I think I found the right person.

And that's when we met Hannah. We had a phone interview with them. No, a video

call. We met on a video call. And then it was kind of like, it was kind of

like meant to be. And then, yeah, everything just went great since then.

That's really neat.

I think. Sorry, you're never ready for babies. Like, it seems a little rude to

tell you that now, like a little, you know, closing the door after the horses are

out, but you'll never be ready. But it's the best thing I've ever done.

Yeah,

And

we have

hopefully

a,

it'll.

I mean, I can, that is true because we're not really ready, but I think

we have a lot. Well, we're really not ready for her to come yet.

I'm

But

sorry.

I mean, we have a lot of help back at home and a lot of help. I mean,

Bryce and Hannah and even Hannah's family have been just wonderful and

we know we'll be okay. We'll make it through.

I think it's really cool, too, that you can start your time with this baby without

one of you being, um, dealing with the physical after effects of having just produced

another human too,

this.

because

Yeah.

that was, I think, the hardest part is trying to heal and deal with the new baby

who doesn't sleep. I

That

mean,

is

your

so.

baby will totally sleep and cause absolutely no problems ever, but...

Katie, I made it. Feral. It is feral.

Yeah, I feel okay about saying this because my kids are totally feral and I've

known you for a long time, Hannah. Feral is an accurate description.

I have told them from the beginning. I was like, I don't know what it

is. It's me, it's me. It's something I do. This thing is wild all the

time. I, I'm sorry guys.

My daughter asked last night if she ever kicked me while I was pregnant with her.

No,

And this

never

is,

honey.

I have five hernias down the middle of my abdomen from her kicking me.

Oh my

Like

god.

literally destroyed my body. And she's like, I never kicked him. Okay, kid, okay.

So I'm just gonna add a question in here. Hannah, since you are braiding horses

and you said that. Chris and Jose are dog groomers. Have you thought about like combining

forces and then perhaps like a reality show

I

or?

mean, we're trying to convince them to move down to South Carolina, but I

don't think it's going to happen. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able

to do that.

I'm just picturing the show that you could create from this. And

Ed-

I mean, I would totally watch that, so.

It would be epic. It would be epic. They run, so not only do they run

a dog grooming business, they do doggy daycare too and dog boarding.

And one of the first times I went to their house, the, so the whole basement

is set up as their dog grooming and boarding area. And one of the first times

I went to their house, they opened up the basement door and there had to

have been, there had to have been 30 dogs all just like coming and peering

around the corner and they're like, Oh, hello. And that's

That

the reason.

is GOLES.

It is hysterical, but people love boarding with them because the dogs are

treated like family, and they're not left in kennels, and you know,

they're out and about and hanging out with everybody, and it's really

cool. It's a really cool situation.

Do you think that dog grooming leaves them better prepared for dealing with little

girl hair than horse grooming does?

Definitely. What do you think? Oh yeah. Yeah? Yeah? Okay. I've been practicing

with, so whenever we groom dogs, mainly girl dogs, like females, and they

like poodles, they're like, oh, they're long hair and stuff like that.

Are you putting bows in? Yeah. I

Hehehehe

put bows in. So I specifically, like, we specifically order like, like, like

cute bows. And then I think I got the hang of it. So I'm all set

Yeah,

for that. Jose's.

yeah, perfect. Watch this baby be

I

the

have

baldest

to say it's...

child ever. Like, you know those babies that don't have hair till they're

like two.

We did an ultrasound, a 3D ultrasound. We had the best, they did a big

baby shower, what was that, two weeks ago? It wasn't that long ago. April

1st. They did this huge baby shower back in Indianapolis. And it was amazing.

It was so much fun. Jose's family is obviously Hispanic and cooked up

the most incredible food. And they have so much family and everybody's

so excited. And we had such a great stinking time. And I can't remember

where I was going with this.

something about hair. Bows.

Oh, and that's right, we did a 3D ultrasound while we were there. And,

um,

it was, oh my god, the food was so good. Sorry, the food got... Oh, Katie,

it was lamb. And it was amazing.

Oh my god.

It was

Yom.

so good. It was so good. But, um, they did a 3D ultrasound. We had so

much fun. But she has so much hair on the ultrasound already. And I

was like, well, that's where all the heartburn came from. So hopefully,

hopefully there'll be some good hair for Jose to play with.

Yeah, that's right.

I love Hannah as the mom of a pretty girly child myself, and she's like, why can't

you do hair better? And I'm like, kid, look at me. Like, my hair is real short too.

Like,

Mm-hmm.

you know why my hair is short? Because I am not the one you want for this baby.

No! And who's got time for that? I'm sorry, I do not have time for that.

Yeah. I'm trying to find one of the moms at daycare that I can like legit just

pay off to deal with my kids hair because

That's amazing.

I am not, I am not here for this.

That's

Just

amazing.

not.

So I know that probably every, oh, Katie's got more, go.

Arlene, I forgot the second half of my question because I

Okay,

got

sorry.

all distracted by Jose's family's food.

So you would

So

have been kidding,

you-

trust me.

You said you were a total milk cow for the first kid, and I think you already

partly answered this, but What's the plan for feeding this baby? Let's talk about

food, Hannah. Let's just circle back to food

So we've got a really cool situation with Chris and Jose that they've

been very open about breastfeeding and birth and everything and just figuring

out what is going to A, be best for Emma and B, what's going to be feasible

for all of us. So that was kind of how we came to, you know, let's...

get Emma here and safely and then go back to the farm and settle and

we can all kind of help each other. I mean, forehands are far better than

two and all kind of help

I think

each

you

other.

have eight hands between the four of you, right?

Yeah,

Okay, good. I

yeah,

just thought

you're

I'd

right.

check.

Yeah. I can't, I don't know. Hard. But just kind of get everybody settled

and that'll give me time to get my milk in. And I was very fortunate

that I was an absolute cow last time. So hopefully if they're here for

about a week, we can get a bunch of milk frozen up for them to send

off with and then we'll be shipping milk up north for them weekly. So

that should be a pretty good situation. And last time I produced, I fed

Tempe, obviously, and then I also pumped, I had a girlfriend who did not

nurse well. And so I pumped and fed her baby half of his milk as well.

And then I also donated about 600 ounces. So it was, I was very... Good milk

cow. Yeah.

Yeah Good supply for sure.

So, yeah, fingers crossed that happens again. I know it's not always

the same and pumping will be different obviously than having a baby on

the breast all the time. So we'll see, we'll see, but that's the hope.

That's the hope.

Mm-hmm.

I like that you're setting up a meal train now. You know,

Right? Right?

for the baby.

Why not? I'm sorry.

Can you call?

So I'm sure that every surrogacy experience is different, but can you talk a

little bit about the steps like medically that you go through? Like say

someone else was interested or curious about how it works. So what did

it look like for you? And you've talked a lot about kind of the delays and how

long everything takes. So I'm also kind of curious about what happens along

the way.

I think the longest process was probably legal, wouldn't you say? The attorneys?

Yeah, it was a long, because I don't think it was, I think it was like April

before, or May even, before we started on the actual process, a physical

process. So the attorney portion took a really long time. And I feel

like we were all very simple on the contracts. Like we were like, we were

pretty easy. Like whatever you guys say, I just think it takes a long

time to. get everything squared away. And we have the challenge too, that you're

dealing with all these different states, right? So they're from Indianapolis,

but and we're from South Carolina, but the laws in Georgia are actually

more agreeable for surrogacy. And we're thankfully about 15 minutes from

the border of Georgia. So that's why we're in Georgia to have the baby.

So that was kind of the longest process. And then after that, it was. I mean,

blood draws and lots of ultrasounds to kind of start tracking cycles and seeing

where everything's sitting. Very similar to an IVF process. And then we

did, I would go up to Indianapolis and they would do scans up there and check

everything. And then we did a mock trial, which was super interesting because

we had to time when we needed to do implantation. And so most women you implant,

I believe it was seven days, and they did a mock trial where they actually

scraped some of the uterine lining and they test the cells to see when

you're gonna be most fertile to accept an egg or an embryo. And they said,

you know, there's just, there's a few women that are a little before or a little

after, and thankfully they did that because my day was actually day nine,

not seven. So if we had just gone for the first one, we probably wouldn't

have had little Emma. We'd probably have a little boy instead. So it was

great that we did the mock trial and kind of knew. what day they need

to do the transfer on and then The next cycle I went back up for the

transfer and then same as IVF It's tons of tons of shots and I don't

do needles. So that was kind of a struggle, but we got through it But it

was actually really amazing. We had a We had a mare last year lose a foal

tragically she was having a canter with the herd and she Ran into a fence

post and broke her neck And so it was absolutely heart-wrenching. And we

were with the foal, obviously, until the vet got there and had her sedated

and quiet and everything. And the mare, the mom of the foal, is one of

my homebreds. So I had pulled her from her dam. And so her and I are obviously

very close. And so the situation was very challenging and heartbreaking for

all of us to go through. And when the transfer happened, it was about

two months after we had lost the baby. And she actually came up into the

field. When I got home, I was out doing some stuff. and she came up and

it was still three days before I could take a positive pregnancy test. And

she put her head on my chest and put her nose on my stomach and just stood

there. And you know, I was just loving on her. I didn't really think anything

of it. And then mom kind of, I think it was, I don't know if it was

mom or Bryce was like, you know, do you think, do you think she knows

something? And I was like, you know, I didn't even think about that. She's

a very affectionate animal anyway, but it was just interesting how she

came over and really just rested on my stomach. And then that night,

one of our cats who we've had for forever, who was also, with me during

my last pregnancy and is obsessed with incubating babies, obsessed with

it, immediately started incubating my stomach. And so I texted Chris and Jose

and I was like, I think we're pregnant. And they were like, really? There's

no way we can know yet. And we knew long before we took the pregnancy test

that we were pregnant. It was really cool. But it was so fun to have

the animals being the one to tell you, you know, that they were all like,

oh yeah, there's a bun in the oven. Let's get this thing going. So, but

yeah, the process was. Other than that, it was pretty smooth. I went back

up for an eight week ultrasound in Indianapolis. And at that point I was released

from Midwest Fertility. And then I started with a midwife here in Aiken,

who actually kind of counseled us into not doing a hospital birth, because

our first birth was a home birth. And so then we went to Savannah and

got in with a birthing center there, which we absolutely loved. And then

Emma decided that, you know, it's not really anybody's decision other than

hers anyway. So here we are at the hospital.

Chris and Jose, I know you know Hannah well enough by now, but y'all are screwed if

she comes out with even like half of her attitude. You're just up a creek.

Oh,

I mean,

love it. Yeah, I will.

you're lucky, cause... Hmm.

Sorry, we totally missed that.

Oh, you're fine. We were saying that if Emma, it's just like, we will

love it. What's not to love about Emma? I don't know about that, but they're

pretty great guys.

I mean, my daughter's a sassy little critter too, so I fully... I love it.

You wouldn't want it any other way though. I mean, the stuff that comes

out of Tempe's mouth most of the time leaves me like peeing my pants.

So like, I'm game.

figure it's got to be easier to try and get them to chill a little bit than it

is to deal with a kid who is just, you know, can be told anything and will go

along with it. So,

Well...

at least that's what I tell myself to deal with the

Absolutely.

tremendous amount of attitude. Um, what...

I know you said there are other embryos remaining. I was about to say on file, but

I don't think that's really what I meant.

They're in a-

Have you guys talked about doing this again?

So we have.

Not... It's like... Go ahead.

We have, and I mean, we don't have any details or anything. It's just a thought,

I think, right now. And Hannah and Bryce are, I think, agreeable to it. And

we're on board with another one. So, you know, obviously, this is a little

girl, and we'd like to have a little boy. But we just want to have success.

We want Emma to come and get... We want to get through this one before

we start really venturing down another path. Planning the second one.

So yeah, that's where I'm with that. I had no desire to do another surrogacy

until they brought it up. I don't think I would. I wanted to do this

once. If it was for another couple, I would not be interested. But we've

had so much fun. And It's been great and it's been so fun to get to know

them. They're going to be the best daddies in the world. This little

girl is so lucky. So I think we're, we're game to do it again.

So how has this pregnancy been different, physically and emotionally, than the last one?

Honestly, not at all. The only frustration I had with this one in the

beginning was they had me on restricted activity, which I understand

why. But that was challenging. Again, Katie and I have known each other for

years. Sitting is not a common part of my life, nor is sleeping.

I don't know that I've ever seen you seated,

Yeah,

and

I

I don't

don't

think you actually do sleep, so...

know. Really not a cup of tea of mine. So. So that part was a little

challenging in the beginning. It wasn't bed rest or anything, but it was

the simple things of like, I couldn't go out and throw 15 bales of hay,

which, you know, I'm taking care of your farm. And so Bryce and my parents

were very accommodating and helpful to do the heavy lifting on the farm

that I couldn't do for a few weeks. But after that, I was back to my

normal activity level. I've been riding three horses four to five days

a week still, running the farm, throwing, you know, a bunch of hay. And...

Um, it's honestly, physically, it's been exactly the same up until this little

entertaining blip on Saturday morning. Um, but, uh, and emotionally, it's,

emotionally, it's been absolutely fine. Um, I really, like I said, I really sat

with this for a long time before I even talked to Bryce about it, um,

and made sure that I felt like I was, uh, emotionally and mentally capable

of carrying someone else's child and being comfortable, you know, knowing

that this was not my baby. even though your body thinks it is when it

comes out, it's not my baby. And so we've all talked about it. It's so funny

because people bring up the comment a lot, like how do you make a baby

and then give it up? And I'm like, it was never mine to give up. It's

always been Chris and Jose's little girl. So it's just my job to incubate

the little cutie and bring her into the world. So I feel like rationally,

I've been very good on that level. That being said, one of the reasons

we went with this agency is they have a really good counseling program

afterwards. because we're all moms and we all know the hormones that

come in after you give birth. And I want to be prepared for that. I definitely

want to be. And we had, we unfortunately had a lot of heartache the first

half of the pregnancy with some dear friends passing. And just a, it was

a hard, hard fall. And so I'm very aware that that's probably gonna hit

me as well. And so we're gonna be prepared for that. But at the same

time, you know, rationally, like I said, I'm sitting with it very well

rationally. I just. I know hormones are a beast, so I want to make sure

I'm prepared for that when it comes around.

Do you think it helped the mental part of the process, that it started as an embryo

and not with your, I mean, not with your egg, but also not with your immediate

biological involvement in the actually making an embryo, if that makes sense.

I think yes and no. I don't know. I'm pretty good at compartmentalizing.

I feel like from the get-go I just emotionally and mentally understood

it's not my child. And I feel like that part sat, that part sits well

with me. We have no desire to have another child. We feel like we have

a jackpot. I mean she is beautiful and wonderful and she's smart and

she's kind and she's gentle. she's giving, you know, she's just everything

we ever could have wanted for a child. And so we always knew we only

ever wanted one, and I'm sure the next one will be a demon. And so we

just, we sat tight with that. And that was actually the really funny part.

We were going through some of this paperwork and stuff, you know, Bryce

was very adamant as we were talking with our attorney, he's like, but how

do we make sure that this child does not accidentally come to us? Because

we don't want another one.

Don't make us guardians of any kind.

It was so funny, I mean, he was like, no seriously, what if something

goes wrong with our birth certificate and they try to give us the baby?

Thanks for watching!

Just like, return policy, there is not one. No

Right.

returns without a receipt, no returns with a receipt. It's your

Yeah.

problem now, guys.

So it was pretty funny, but no, it's been a really cool process. It's been

super cool. And for the most part, it's gone very smoothly other than this

little hiccup. And I think this was kind of one of the ways the universe

does sometimes, you need to accept how things are going to go and you

need to be willing to adapt and evolve. And so this was definitely not

the plan, but we have been willing to adapt and evolve. And at the same

time, we're going to spend all this time with Chris and Jose. They've

been here since Sunday. and we get to spend every day together and we're

all just hanging out. We've got dominoes on the floor and Tempe's been

ripping up some uno with everybody and we've just been having a good

time.

That's great.

It feels like a good introduction to parenthood, too. This is kinda...

I think so.

you know.

Yeah, I really

About

do

what

think

it's gonna

so.

be like.

Right?

So I know you've said that Emma's dictating how things are gonna go in

terms of the birth, but you know, in like detail wise, is everyone going

to be in the room when she's born, or what are your plans for kind of those

final

Well,

moments?

that's the plan. We're not quite sure about Chris. He doesn't do, we've

been very honest that it's loud and it's messy.

Yep.

And he doesn't mess bodily fluids very well. So Tempe might be holding

his hand in the corner. You know, that's fine.

She's seen birth before,

But

right?

I've seen her plenty of times. She's very, they've been very kind. they were

more than willing to have her in the room with us. Obviously if it's

in the middle of the night and she's not here, you know, we're not gonna

scramble to try to get her here, but hopefully she'll get to be here for

it too. But for now we're planning in the room will be Chris and Jose

and Bryce and me obviously, and Tempe and my mom. So it'll be kind of a

roomful and we're kind of just gauging who, you know, it's ebb and flow

of hopefully one of us are gonna catch her. I think it'd be cool to have

someone in the family catch her rather than, you know, the doctors or the

nurses. But it should be really fun. Yeah, the only one we're a little

concerned about is Chris over there. We might have him sitting in a

chair.

Yeah, you don't

We just

want

don't want him to hit the floor.

to, yeah, don't let the baby or Chris at the floor. Maybe he shouldn't be

catching either. Take him off the list.

Right, right,

Yeah.

right. I think, I think he's going for.

So if this is too personal, then you can skip it or tell me that you're

not going to answer this question. But as a Canadian, I know that here you're

not allowed to pay someone to be a surrogate. And I don't know if money

is part of the arrangement that you guys have, but I'm just curious about

the money side of things, I guess even in terms of, you know, like paying

for medical expenses and all that kind of stuff. How does how does

Yeah.

the financial side work?

So there is a financial side to it. I'll be the first one to say that wasn't

what brought us that direction. It's something we've always wanted to do. It

was something we were actually going to do for some very close gay friends

of ours growing up, or not growing up, but like initially. And they found

out that one of them was infertile and he was the one that wanted to

be biological and they had selected a donor egg and everything. So the

financial part wasn't as big for us as it was. just is something we

want it to do. The financial part definitely helps and like the agency said

Mindy was like the most beautiful balance you find between a surrogate woman

that appreciates the money and uses the money obviously to improve things

that they need to improve in their lives and all that but also is just

compassionate and caring and really just wants to do this. So there's

definitely, yes the monetary side is helpful for sure but... And then they

do cover all the medical expenses and all of that. But that's not terribly

what it's about, if that makes sense.

Yeah, that totally makes sense. Yeah, and just being from somewhere where you're

not allowed to pay someone, it just, you know, I understand the ethics

of that, but you know, as someone who has born children, I also can appreciate,

you know, like, there are something,

Yes.

you are doing something with your body that has value, right? And you know,

that can't be done in any other way. So.

No, and it does definitely take a physical toll. I hadn't thought about

what Katie said earlier, which is such honestly a brilliant statement.

The beauty of, we have three completely healthy individuals after a baby

is born, where normally you have one. And the mother is a bit, it's a process.

Giving birth, it's a big process. And it's strenuous on your body and

it's hard. whether it's natural, whether it's C-section, it doesn't matter,

it is a hard process and your body goes through the wringer. And to

have able-bodied individuals when you're recovering is huge. And I honestly

hadn't even thought about how helpful that will be for all of us as we

kind of get going and get settled with little Emma.

Mm-hmm. I was wondering if the dads wanted to chime in again about what

the plan is. Are they both self-employed? Like, are we both taking some

time off? What does your paternity leave look like in the next

They're

little

getting closer

while?

so you can talk.

Sure.

I say, Arlene, I want to interject too that Hannah, a large part of my thought

with that was actually that as new parents, they will have experienced parents

who are not their parents helping with the baby.

Absolutely. Well,

Because

and

that, that being

that

a

helps.

first-time parent is a mindfuck, to be

It's

sure.

a challenge. Yeah, it is. It's a total mind-boggling. It's a challenge.

And they're very fortunate, too, where they're at. Jose has a beautiful

extended family with cousins and sisters and family that are so excited

to help. And Chris does, too. And the amount of support they have is

really incredibly beautiful. It was so touching to be—their baby shower

had like 150 people, I swear to God. There were so many people. And it was

a majority that was family. And it was just so touching to see how much

support they have. It's gonna be a really beautiful experience for them.

But I'm passing it over to them.

And I feel like I'm scaring them. I hope I'm not. I'm an only child and didn't

grow up with babies, so being sent home from the hospital, we're like, somebody

else is in charge and knows what the fuck they're doing, and then they just let

you take this thing home, and they just assumed that you know what you're gonna,

like... They assume you'll figure it out, which you will. It'll be fine. But it

would have been awesome to start out with somebody who'd already done this. That's

Yeah.

all I'm gonna say about that.

Yeah, so I guess my question was for you guys, what are the next weeks and

months look like? What are you most excited about and what are your plans

with your new little one?

You know, I don't know. I don't know. So like Hannah said, we have tons

of support. We have tons of family. We have so many friends and everybody's

so supportive. And we have Jose's sister, one of the sisters works for

us full time. So she's with us, you know, five out of seven days a week.

And another sister works with us one day. So we always have. We're always

gonna have so much support. I always think back to what Hannah has told

us several times that when they had Tempe, when Tempe was born, they had

all this support at their home. And then at a certain point, everybody

kind of left and they were home alone with a baby. They're like, oh shit,

what do we do now?

Yep, that sounds familiar.

Yeah. And you know what? They made it through and they just took it.

They figured it out and took it day by day. And I think we're going to do

the same thing, you know? So we're just so damn excited and just over

the moon and can't believe this is happening. And I have to pinch myself

to. I just don't.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would. I just I would just add like as far as the. how the next weeks

will look for us. Definitely we'll take in some time off from work. We'll

still be taking some dogs here and there. The main reason we're doing

that is because I want Emma to start feel comfortable with dogs being around

her. Like as far as like barking or crying, whatever it is. Cause even

Hannah agrees, and probably every mom will agree with that. with it is

that your home, you have to make it feel comfortable for her. So whatever

noise, whether it is loud or not too loud, it will be eventually become

like comfort for her. So that's what the next week will look for us.

Busy but not too busy. Enough busy to make some money but not too busy to

make her. feel comfortable if that makes any sense.

Yeah. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

Sorry, I was just thinking about what a lucky kiddo this is to be born into so many

families and so many people that love her and worked this hard to make this happen.

I mean, it's really... The best possible thing a kiddo can have is to have more people

who love them. And that's...

Yeah.

What a wonderful thing. So I'd really like

Katie,

to hear from all...

just one more question, Katie, before we go on. I know that you guys have

probably told Hannah these things lots of times, but what do you feel

about her and the gift that she's giving you? Are there words to put behind

what she's doing for you guys?

You know, for me, I try to wrap my head around this whole, from the very

beginning, how we ended up so damn lucky. Hannah and Bryce and Tempe,

they're all just angels to me. I just can't. I just still don't understand

how we managed to be so lucky. And

we just, we're like, me and Jose and Hannah and Bryce and Tempe, we're

like peanut butter and jelly. I mean, I just, yeah. And I think it, you know,

yet to be seen, but I think it's going to be lasting. I think. And I think

they're gonna be in our lives for a very long time, so. Yeah, I couldn't

agree more. I think we talked every day, so. We're getting a little bushed

up. But.

Sorry.

That's okay. I'm tearing

I just feel

up too.

bad that Hannah volunteered for this podcast and then we've just roped all of you

into it.

I mean, I texted them, I don't know how many times I told them, like,

I cannot find words of how to explain to be thankful to her, to Bryce,

Tempe, you know, it's just like, we're just so happy. There will never

be enough words for me to explain how thankful I am for them. And like

Chris mentioned, they... By now, they're family. They're not even considered

friends or any people that we just met. But they're definitely part of

our family now. And I know it will last forever. We'll eventually come

visit them, or they can go up north and visit us, vice versa. So we're

here. Yeah, we'll keep it up. Where? But we know Hannah hates the cold,

so that's why she ran away from Iowa. So more than that, Google I like

last time we were here towards the end of March, was it? Yeah, I think it

was sometime in March, the fifth week. Yeah, and I just love that because

it was, you know, like we live in the city and it's loud all the time.

We're fortunate that we don't live close enough to where there's too many

cars, but there is enough cars to you can still hear it. traffic all

that and when we're at their farm it was just like peaceful you don't hear

anything but the horses the chickens and but yeah i enjoyed it so i'm looking

forward for more of those days like that and of course sharing it with

Emma and all of them too.

So, we ask all of our guests, and I'd love to hear from all four of you, if you were

going to dominate a category at the county fair, what would it be? Any categories

can be real or made up to ensure that you win. And maybe we should start with Hannah,

since I think she's the only one who saw these questions ahead of time.

I didn't look at him.

I never look at him and I'm a co-host of the show.

dominate? What would you dominate? What would I dominate?

I mean, lack of sleep, I could definitely dominate that one. I could

slice that one up.

Well, your horses must

I don't

have

know.

the best hair, so I mean, a certain kind of braid

day.

are you the best at?

Pretty luxurious. It's pretty luxurious. Yeah, I have no idea. I have no

idea. Something with animals, obviously. What do you have Bryce? I think

I would dominate the pie eating contest.

Sweet. Quantity

Yeah,

or speed?

I think. Um, quantity. Yeah, I would wanna enjoy it. Yeah. Definitely.

Yeah.

What kind

Nice.

of pie are we talking there, Bryce?

Oh, I knew you were gonna ask that.

Hahaha

Um, probably lemon pie or lemon meringue. I really want a lemon meringue

pie. I, we were thinking about this and nobody will make me one. So

maybe they'll have some in the cafeteria.

Oh, hospital

If I could

cafeteria

think of a way

pie

to ship

is probably

one,

pretty

I'd

bad.

do it, because I love lemon meringue.

Or they have it here in the hospital. So maybe I'll have to go down there

and look. All right, Chris, what do you got? I'm gonna piggyback on what

Bryce said and it's the eating part of it because I just love all the food

at the fair. Whatever it is, fried. Funnel

Yeah,

cakes. I'll eat it. Yeah.

all the fried stuff.

Yeah. Yeah, probably me too, because I love to eat. I

Hehehe

love food. We're very. Yeah, we're very fluid motivated.

Very food focused.

This is why we all get a lot of help. So,

Yeah, that's right. So

anything from you.

are you eating from the cafeteria or are we Uber eating into the hospital tonight?

We- They brought, what, what, last- two nights ago they brought us steaks

and mashed potatoes and all sorts of yummy stuff. Last night we had- Last

night we had Thai, that was fantastic.

Oh delicious.

So, yeah, we've been having a good time.

That's great. So we're gonna go ahead and move into our cussing and discussing

segment. So this is anything goes, it can be from a minor pet peeve to major

societal issues, whatever you want to talk about. And listeners, if they

want to submit their cussing and discussing, you can go to our speak pipe

or our email, they're both in the show notes. You can leave us a voice

memo or send us an email and we'll read it out. Katie, what are you cussing

and discussing this week?

I hadn't prepared anything, but I'm just gonna wing it. I am not the most emotionally

adept person. I'm not good at deep feelings. And so when I had my kids, you know,

people say things like, "'A child is your heart walking around outside of your body.'"

And I was like, the fuck's the matter with you people? You know, like... It is. You

guys, I'm... I'm... I love that Hannah's snorting

I'm sorry.

over here.

Chris and Jose, I'm so excited for you guys,

it.

I've never met, so I can't even imagine how excited you guys are. To get to experience

that, because it's unlike anything else, the

Yeah.

love that you will feel for your child. And

Thank you.

now that I've done it for a while, I wish I could go back and experience that

first. that first experience of it, again, because it's, for me at least, being

the emotionally stunted little weirdo that I am, I frequently try really hard not

to think about how much I love my children, because it sends me into a very uncomfortable

place very quickly. And I'm just so excited for all of you

Thank you.

to get that. And if it's overwhelming, just don't think about it because it'll just

break your heart real quick. Because it's... Yeah. Anyway. Um, are- Well, now, how

are we gonna do this with all four of them, Arlene?

We'll just ask if anyone wants to cuss or discuss anything and they can jump

in. They're pretty good at that. Anybody have anything you want to talk

about? Cussing? Discussing? Hannah, you've got something.

Yeah

You

discussed

must have

plenty.

something

Hannah,

to

can

complain

we see this

about.

belly real quick before we get off here too?

Ugh!

Oh yeah,

It-it-it-

this is great

Honestly,

for an

it's

audio

like- I don't

medium,

know. It is

Katie. Our listeners are gonna

a little-

love

Yeah,

this.

well,

Ha ha.

awww. Baby.

No, she's a good girl, she's just chugging along.

No.

Alright, anybody got anything?

I just was gonna go off of what Katie said about that first love and I

was gonna say I've already warned him about the first meconium poop. That's

what I've been hitting him hard for.

All the firsts.

I will

I

save

had nothing

in

to burn.

the-

Good old tar.

When the girl child was like ten days old, we took her to a young farmers meeting

in a church that for some unholy reason did not have changing tables.

Oh god.

And so I was like ten days post C-section and trying to change a baby who was... It was

like the first poop after the meconium where it just looks like they've exploded.

I assume this is a common thing. And I had to change her like in a sink in this

church

No.

bathroom. And I... I have never questioned... whether I should have had children before or

after like I did that night. Um, yeah. So, there's that poop. So much poop.

That's a lot of poop. Arlene, what do you have to custom discuss?

So since we decided to move this up and have it be our Mother's Day episode,

I am going to cuss and discuss or mostly cuss the fact that Mother's Day and

planting line up so perfectly so that there's unless it rains and then people

are grumpy about the fact that it rains. There's never any chance that Mother's

Day is going to be like the relaxing, like go to brunch and get flowers

situation that non-farm families apparently get. So I wanna say happy Mother's

Day to any of the moms out there who are maybe, you know, making meals

for people out in tractors or looking after kids by yourself or on a tractor

with your kids, or maybe you could put the kids on the tractor with your

partner. You could drive the tractor by yourself and listen to a podcast

instead of listening to people ask when planting is done or whatever. Anyway,

it's just, we could move Mother's Day to like January or something and then we

might actually get a day off.

And Ray, those are the best, unfortunately.

I'll say to that if it's someone who is not a mother listening to this, chances

are that you know a mother and you should go do something nice for that person,

even

Yeah,

if they're not your mother or the mother

do

of your

that.

children. It's rarely a bad idea to do something nice for someone.

There you go. So.

conversation here. I just have a funny little note that I found out about

the other day that I think you will find entertaining. So we grow roses

beautifully down here which we did not we're not able to grow up north

and so I was chatting with I've planted a few and they really just grow

beautifully down here but I was chatting with a gal at the flower shop

a couple of weeks ago and I was asking her like I need to learn more

about how to prune them and keep them beautiful here and all of these things

right and I said do you cut them back like in the fall or something and

She looked at me and she goes, we're talking about roses, right? And

I said, yeah, like roses. And she's like, yeah, so Valentine's Day is

the perfect day to cut them down to the ground. And I was like, Valentine's

Day?

That's a good way

Really?

to remember.

I know, I was like, that's kind of savage.

Not highly.

I like that.

It's a date you can remember. That's good.

Seriously.

So yeah, I want to thank everybody in the room for talking to us today. And we

I know Katie has already said it and we're both going to say it again. We're

so excited for all of you. And by the time this episode comes out, there's

gonna be an Emma in the world and we will hopefully be able to share some

pictures or whatever you guys are comfortable with sharing with us and our

listeners after she makes her appearance. But good luck in the next few hours

and days and weeks. And yeah, we're just so thankful that you came on with

us today and we're so open to sharing with us. So thank you.

Thank you for having

Yeah,

me.

thank you guys so much. And I, Hannah, I know I said, but I hope that this is the

most uneventful and boring delivery that could possibly happen, because

My last.

I feel like that's really the like, you

I'm

know.

really hoping so. My last one totally was, but this is just a whole hiccup.

I don't know. I don't see. But thank you. We appreciate it. Thank you.

Thanks

It was

everybody.

nice

Thanks.

meeting you.

Thank you guys so much for coming on.