1 00:00:00,870 --> 00:00:04,320 Lauren: Hello, my high school counselor listeners. I'm excited 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:07,860 to bring you another guest episode today. I originally 3 00:00:07,860 --> 00:00:12,090 connected with Neal Crosson over on LinkedIn as he started 4 00:00:12,090 --> 00:00:15,690 following me based on another podcast episode that I shared or 5 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,620 that was shared out. He is colleagues, or knows, Julia 6 00:00:19,620 --> 00:00:24,960 Rogers from around the international gap year student 7 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:29,400 programs world, I guess you would call it. Julia Rogers was 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,520 on a past episode where she talked about gap year programs. 9 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:35,940 And you'll hear a little bit of crossover here in what Neal has 10 00:00:35,940 --> 00:00:36,510 to offer. 11 00:00:36,000 --> 00:01:07,110 Having lived and studied in Spain, Costa Rica, and Turkey, 12 00:00:36,380 --> 00:00:39,581 Let me introduce you to Neal, and then I'll give you a preview 13 00:00:39,632 --> 00:00:42,730 of what we're going to talk about. I'll let you listen in on 14 00:00:42,782 --> 00:00:45,880 our conversation, and then we'll wrap it up. With over seven 15 00:00:45,931 --> 00:00:48,616 years of experience in international education, Neal 16 00:00:48,668 --> 00:00:51,714 Crosson is passionate about helping students explore unique 17 00:00:51,766 --> 00:00:55,019 pathways in higher education. As national admissions manager at 18 00:00:55,070 --> 00:00:58,117 Verto Education, he guides students toward their first year 19 00:00:58,168 --> 00:01:01,008 abroad, offering academic, cultural and personal growth 20 00:01:01,060 --> 00:01:03,900 opportunities beyond traditional study abroad programs. 21 00:01:07,260 --> 00:01:09,870 he's seen firsthand how international experiences 22 00:01:09,870 --> 00:01:13,710 transform students' academic and personal development. His 23 00:01:13,710 --> 00:01:17,100 background includes teaching ESL, leading gap year programs, 24 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:20,280 and crafting college admission strategies, all fueling his 25 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,520 commitment to making global learning accessible. Neal 26 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:26,160 believes every student deserves a chance to gain a global 27 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:28,800 perspective, and he's here to share how counselors can support 28 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,650 their students in taking that first step towards an enriching, 29 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:33,240 transformative year abroad. 30 00:01:33,900 --> 00:01:36,840 In this episode, you're going to hear about a unique pathway that 31 00:01:36,840 --> 00:01:40,140 I hope you will find valuable to share with your students, kind 32 00:01:40,140 --> 00:01:43,650 of outside the norm of what you might usually be talking about 33 00:01:43,650 --> 00:01:46,080 when you sit down and talk about your post secondary planning 34 00:01:46,080 --> 00:01:50,940 with them. We talk about a gap year type international 35 00:01:50,940 --> 00:01:54,210 experience. I don't know how to condense it into one sentence 36 00:01:54,210 --> 00:01:57,540 here, but you're going to hear Neal explain what this popular 37 00:01:57,540 --> 00:02:01,350 program is that is honestly becoming more and more popular 38 00:02:01,350 --> 00:02:05,430 with our students who are heading off to college. I'll let 39 00:02:05,430 --> 00:02:08,970 him do the talking here, and then we will chat here at the 40 00:02:08,970 --> 00:02:10,500 end about what we learned from the episode. 41 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,560 You got into this profession to make a difference in your 42 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,650 students lives, but you're spread thin by all the things 43 00:02:19,650 --> 00:02:22,830 that keep getting added to your to do list. I can't create more 44 00:02:22,830 --> 00:02:25,440 hours in the day, but I can invite you into my Counselor 45 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:28,710 Clique where you'll finally catch your breath. Come with me 46 00:02:28,710 --> 00:02:31,800 as we unpack creative ideas and effective strategies that'll 47 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,650 help you be the counselor who leaves a lifelong impact on your 48 00:02:34,650 --> 00:02:37,770 students. I'm Lauren Tingle, your high school counseling hype 49 00:02:37,770 --> 00:02:40,860 girl, here to help you energize your school counseling program 50 00:02:41,010 --> 00:02:43,080 and remind you of how much you love your job. 51 00:02:46,470 --> 00:02:49,020 Hey Neal, welcome to the podcast. I'm so glad that you're 52 00:02:49,020 --> 00:02:53,040 here to talk about just global perspectives and how that 53 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:54,660 affects our high school students. 54 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,720 Neal: Thank you, Lauren. And yeah, I'm super excited to be 55 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,930 here. Global perspectives, international education, 56 00:03:00,930 --> 00:03:04,020 experiential education, all of these things wrapped up into 57 00:03:04,020 --> 00:03:07,710 one. This is what I'm here to talk about. This is what gets me 58 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,610 super excited and what I am passionate about. So I'm very 59 00:03:11,610 --> 00:03:12,750 excited to be joining you today. 60 00:03:12,930 --> 00:03:15,420 Lauren: Yeah, we talked a little bit off air about your 61 00:03:15,420 --> 00:03:19,920 background and experience, and I read the listeners your bio, and 62 00:03:20,100 --> 00:03:23,700 all of your experience has been in this world with all different 63 00:03:23,730 --> 00:03:26,700 job experiences, but it's really cool that it has pointed you 64 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:30,870 back here to continue like leading high schoolers into this 65 00:03:30,870 --> 00:03:33,360 world, which could be really unknown to high schoolers. So 66 00:03:33,510 --> 00:03:37,560 will you tell us what is Verto education? First just go ahead 67 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,110 and give us a little intro to like the people you work for. 68 00:03:40,440 --> 00:03:43,110 Neal: Yeah, absolutely. And I also want to make a note here 69 00:03:43,110 --> 00:03:47,700 that yesterday was National Study Abroad Day. So this 70 00:03:47,700 --> 00:03:52,230 conversation is quite, the timing of it is, is quite good. 71 00:03:52,300 --> 00:03:54,490 Lauren: This is how you're celebrating. You're talking 72 00:03:54,490 --> 00:03:55,900 about this. 73 00:03:56,110 --> 00:03:59,800 Neal: 100%. Yeah, but to answer your question, yeah, what is 74 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:04,180 Verto Education? Verto Education is a first year or freshman year 75 00:04:04,180 --> 00:04:07,540 of college study abroad organization that is really 76 00:04:07,540 --> 00:04:11,920 trying to pair the best of both worlds between a traditional gap 77 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:16,210 year experience with the academic backbone of a study 78 00:04:16,210 --> 00:04:19,000 abroad experience. It's not traditional study abroad. It's 79 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,420 not traditional gap year. It is first year abroad. 80 00:04:22,630 --> 00:04:25,960 So all students that are starting in a Verto Education 81 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:30,310 program are recent high school graduates. This is their first 82 00:04:30,310 --> 00:04:33,940 collegiate experience, and rather than going to a 83 00:04:33,970 --> 00:04:37,510 traditional campus, they're going to be starting in, you 84 00:04:37,510 --> 00:04:41,080 know, one of five different Verto study centers. It's our 85 00:04:41,080 --> 00:04:44,890 study center model, our campuses in miniature. But the idea is 86 00:04:45,250 --> 00:04:49,780 really for students to have an academic experience, earn 87 00:04:49,780 --> 00:04:52,660 transferable college credit while they are immersing 88 00:04:52,660 --> 00:04:56,050 themselves in different country. And the second part of our model 89 00:04:56,050 --> 00:05:01,150 is we exist in the US higher education ecosystem here. So we 90 00:05:01,150 --> 00:05:04,150 partner with dozens of colleges and universities across the 91 00:05:04,150 --> 00:05:07,990 country to really make good on this, this promise for students 92 00:05:07,990 --> 00:05:13,360 to get a gap year without the gap, get the experiential part, 93 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,150 the transformative first year experience, but then to have a 94 00:05:16,150 --> 00:05:19,720 clear path forward to continue their education and graduate 95 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,370 within that four year timeline. 96 00:05:22,060 --> 00:05:25,120 Lauren: Yeah. So as someone who's not sitting here, my 97 00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:26,680 listeners are listening, they're not, they don't have your 98 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,440 website pulled up, so they're hearing this about this for the 99 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,800 first time, I have a couple like practical questions. So when a 100 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:36,430 student is going into their freshman year, are they, say 101 00:05:36,430 --> 00:05:38,920 around here, going to Clemson University, and then they're 102 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,490 noticing that there's this option to study abroad? Or are 103 00:05:42,490 --> 00:05:46,660 they applying to the study abroad program, knowing I just 104 00:05:46,660 --> 00:05:49,210 kind of want to take a gap year, like, how is a student kind of 105 00:05:49,210 --> 00:05:51,580 piecing this together? Like, this is, I'm going to go on this 106 00:05:51,580 --> 00:05:52,300 experience. 107 00:05:52,570 --> 00:05:55,780 Neal: So I'm going to give you an answer that it's probably a 108 00:05:55,780 --> 00:05:59,290 little bit longer than you might expect. On the one hand, we have 109 00:05:59,290 --> 00:06:01,510 what we call traditional students at Verto. These are 110 00:06:01,510 --> 00:06:06,100 students that are seeking out a first year abroad experience. 111 00:06:06,100 --> 00:06:10,600 Maybe they are, you know, thinking about a structured 112 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:14,830 academic gap year. Then they come to us, finding us through 113 00:06:14,830 --> 00:06:17,800 our website, finding us through social media, and deciding that, 114 00:06:17,830 --> 00:06:20,080 hey, you know, this is something I'm interested in learning 115 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:24,490 about, hitting apply and engaging with us from there. The 116 00:06:24,490 --> 00:06:27,910 other part of that is that some of the universities that we work 117 00:06:27,910 --> 00:06:32,620 with actually invite students to Verto Education. They will 118 00:06:32,620 --> 00:06:37,390 select a subset of their first year applicants and decide to 119 00:06:37,390 --> 00:06:41,320 offer them, hey, if you want to come to our institution, if you 120 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:43,810 want to come to our university, we'd like to see you studying 121 00:06:43,810 --> 00:06:47,860 abroad for the fall semester, or maybe the fall and spring 122 00:06:47,860 --> 00:06:50,020 semester, so the full academic year. 123 00:06:50,170 --> 00:06:51,670 Lauren: That's cool that you mentioned that, because that's 124 00:06:51,670 --> 00:06:54,370 what I was thinking. I have heard of someone doing that at 125 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,050 our school around here that everyone wants to go to is 126 00:06:56,050 --> 00:06:58,810 Clemson. And I don't know if Verto is connected to them, but 127 00:06:59,170 --> 00:07:01,960 I know a girl who went and did that her first semester, and I 128 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,600 thought that was so interesting. I wonder if she chose that or if 129 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:06,070 the university offered that to her. 130 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,010 Neal: To be honest, oftentimes students are first hearing about 131 00:07:09,010 --> 00:07:12,760 Verto through their university. And the same with the college 132 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,790 counselors, with education consultants. A lot of times when 133 00:07:15,790 --> 00:07:19,450 their student comes in, and this will be in their official 134 00:07:19,450 --> 00:07:23,200 decision letter from that university saying that, hey, I 135 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:26,830 received this invitation from, and I don't want to show 136 00:07:26,830 --> 00:07:29,200 favoritism here, but we have some long term partners of 137 00:07:29,230 --> 00:07:31,330 University of Tennessee, Knoxville, University of 138 00:07:31,330 --> 00:07:34,630 Vermont, William and Mary for just to name a few, they might 139 00:07:34,630 --> 00:07:38,380 extend this offer to a student that may have been wait listed, 140 00:07:38,860 --> 00:07:42,580 to a student that may have been given a spring admit, or a 141 00:07:42,580 --> 00:07:44,890 student that, in the case of some of our partners, even 142 00:07:44,890 --> 00:07:48,250 denied. And saying that, hey, we see a lot of potential in you. 143 00:07:48,700 --> 00:07:52,660 We would like you to have this experience. And to keep in mind, 144 00:07:52,660 --> 00:07:55,000 these students are earning transferable college credit that 145 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,190 have been, you know, reviewed for articulation to that 146 00:07:57,190 --> 00:08:00,820 university. And assuming that student meets x, y and z, then 147 00:08:00,820 --> 00:08:04,120 they have this sort of guaranteed closed loop back to 148 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:09,670 that university. For us right now, this is a time of the year 149 00:08:09,670 --> 00:08:13,480 that we colloquially refer to at Verto Education as channel 150 00:08:13,480 --> 00:08:16,480 season, because this is the channel pathway, the invitation 151 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:23,080 pathway, where right now or soon in the next couple weeks, 1000s 152 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,810 of students are going to be extended this offer across the 153 00:08:25,810 --> 00:08:26,290 country. 154 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:28,810 Lauren: So it's your busy season right now. You're about to be 155 00:08:28,810 --> 00:08:31,810 answering lots of questions, inviting lots of students in. 156 00:08:32,050 --> 00:08:37,450 Neal: It is our busy season, or really, on the cusp of our very 157 00:08:37,450 --> 00:08:39,130 busy season. Yeah. 158 00:08:40,570 --> 00:08:43,690 Lauren: Okay. Well, for a student who is considering this, 159 00:08:43,690 --> 00:08:47,140 or a counselor who is encouraging a student about an 160 00:08:47,140 --> 00:08:51,610 experience like this, what do you see as an advantage for a 161 00:08:51,610 --> 00:08:55,630 student going and doing a study abroad, especially in a gap year 162 00:08:55,630 --> 00:08:57,610 time like before they go to college? 163 00:08:58,020 --> 00:09:04,380 Neal: Yeah, so a lot of times I think of the Verto experience as 164 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,580 allowing students to reap a lot of the benefits of a gap year, a 165 00:09:08,580 --> 00:09:11,820 lot of the personal growth, experiential learning, really 166 00:09:11,820 --> 00:09:14,790 just building up this, you know, this portfolio of different 167 00:09:14,790 --> 00:09:18,930 experiences that facilitate the growth of that student. So 168 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:24,390 having them engage in something different is really opening up 169 00:09:24,390 --> 00:09:28,500 the door for what we call finding their why, or finding 170 00:09:28,950 --> 00:09:31,410 that thing that they're passionate about, exposing the 171 00:09:31,410 --> 00:09:35,340 students to something different. And let's say they are, you 172 00:09:35,340 --> 00:09:39,120 know, thinking about a specific college major, maybe this will 173 00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:41,640 give them the confidence to say, like, actually, yeah, this is 174 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,930 what I am dedicating myself to, or really opening up the door to 175 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:49,650 have this more exploratory experience where that student 176 00:09:49,650 --> 00:09:52,470 can, you know, take different courses, have different 177 00:09:52,470 --> 00:09:56,160 experiences, and decide, like, actually, you know, maybe, uh, 178 00:09:56,490 --> 00:09:59,700 maybe I'm not considering engineering anymore. Maybe I'm 179 00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:02,190 actually considering, you know something else. 180 00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:08,370 So it is trying to give students the breathing space to do 181 00:10:08,370 --> 00:10:11,430 something exploratory while still progressing along their 182 00:10:11,430 --> 00:10:15,510 degree path. I haven't mentioned this yet, but the coursework 183 00:10:15,510 --> 00:10:18,900 that's offered at Verto, it is facilitated through the 184 00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:22,230 University of New Haven, which is our academic provider, or 185 00:10:22,230 --> 00:10:25,080 really our our academic backbone. But the coursework is 186 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,440 meant to fulfill general education courses, anything from 187 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,460 a seminar in academic writing to biology, different business 188 00:10:32,460 --> 00:10:36,120 courses and things like that. So that seems to rest assured that 189 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:38,730 they are continuing to progress along their degree path, taking 190 00:10:38,730 --> 00:10:41,550 the same kinds of courses they would do as a freshman at a 191 00:10:41,550 --> 00:10:44,970 traditional university, but getting that study abroad 192 00:10:44,970 --> 00:10:47,460 experience at the same time, that global experience. 193 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,700 Lauren: Yeah, that's awesome. Okay, I'm just being curious 194 00:10:50,700 --> 00:10:54,360 right now. I know I kind of read in your bio, you've had some 195 00:10:54,570 --> 00:10:57,900 study abroad type experiences, or you've lived other places. 196 00:10:58,050 --> 00:11:00,750 Can you kind of tell us, give us, like, a little snippet of 197 00:11:00,750 --> 00:11:03,780 your international experiences? Because I'm sure they pointed 198 00:11:03,780 --> 00:11:05,310 you to what you're doing now. 199 00:11:05,690 --> 00:11:10,340 Neal: 100%. Yeah, it's sort of become my, for better or for 200 00:11:10,340 --> 00:11:13,760 worse, my personal brand, in a lot of ways. 201 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:15,230 Lauren: Your entire personality. 202 00:11:15,590 --> 00:11:19,430 Neal: Exactly right. Oh, yeah. So I've studied abroad more than 203 00:11:19,550 --> 00:11:22,790 most people. By that, I mean I had my first study abroad 204 00:11:22,790 --> 00:11:26,570 experience as a rising senior in high school. 205 00:11:26,630 --> 00:11:27,590 Lauren: Me too. 206 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:33,120 Neal: Oh yeah? I spent a month in Costa Rica throughout high 207 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:36,870 school. I always studied the Spanish language. It's been a 208 00:11:36,900 --> 00:11:40,950 huge passion of mine. I studied abroad a summer in Costa Rica, 209 00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:44,430 came back, finished my senior year of high school, and 210 00:11:44,730 --> 00:11:48,060 eventually the Spanish language became my my major in college, 211 00:11:48,060 --> 00:11:52,200 which, of course, led me to study abroad in Spain with a 212 00:11:52,350 --> 00:11:54,720 focus on the international world. I also studied 213 00:11:54,780 --> 00:11:59,370 international development in Istanbul, Turkey. And yeah, 214 00:11:59,460 --> 00:12:03,360 thinking about when I was a college graduate, like many 215 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,960 students, I found myself questioning, what is the path 216 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:10,350 forward after that, you know, as a recent college graduate. A lot 217 00:12:10,350 --> 00:12:13,260 of questions were sort of, you know, bubbling in my mind of, 218 00:12:13,560 --> 00:12:15,510 you know, what am I going to do? How am I going to enter the 219 00:12:15,510 --> 00:12:16,230 workforce? 220 00:12:16,570 --> 00:12:21,370 And I decided that, Hey, maybe I need a sort of adult Gap Year, 221 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:26,590 which led me to through some some research provided by one of 222 00:12:26,590 --> 00:12:29,170 my my Spanish professors. I remember he walked in the 223 00:12:29,170 --> 00:12:32,320 classroom and wrote on the board this link that said, you know, 224 00:12:32,350 --> 00:12:36,220 to the Spanish Ministry of Education's website. And he 225 00:12:36,220 --> 00:12:39,250 said, Hey, there's this program where you can go to Spain, you 226 00:12:39,250 --> 00:12:42,220 can teach English. They're not going to pay you a lot of money, 227 00:12:42,220 --> 00:12:45,640 but it's really good experience, and it's the opportunity to live 228 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,760 in a foreign country. So I remember writing that in the 229 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:52,750 back of a notebook and putting that notebook away, and then 230 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:55,690 right as I'm about to graduate as a senior, pulling that 231 00:12:55,690 --> 00:12:58,900 notebook back out, finding that link, finding this program 232 00:12:58,930 --> 00:13:02,740 applying to it, and what was originally going to be a one 233 00:13:02,740 --> 00:13:06,790 year stint of teaching English in Spain ended up turning into 234 00:13:07,090 --> 00:13:12,460 three years, a master's degree, and really just a wealth of 235 00:13:13,540 --> 00:13:17,530 experience living in a foreign country, of having to navigate a 236 00:13:17,530 --> 00:13:19,930 foreign country using my second language. 237 00:13:20,380 --> 00:13:25,150 And I decided, okay, the adventure continues. So upon 238 00:13:25,150 --> 00:13:28,990 leaving Spain, I found work as a program instructor at the gap 239 00:13:29,260 --> 00:13:32,920 organization of a company, and I ended up leading programs for 240 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:38,800 about a year in Hawaii. So not exactly International, but 241 00:13:39,490 --> 00:13:43,180 working directly with students that are seeking out something 242 00:13:43,180 --> 00:13:45,160 different, something transformative, that are wanting 243 00:13:45,160 --> 00:13:47,920 to, you know, engage with the world in a different way, 244 00:13:47,950 --> 00:13:52,330 through volunteering, outdoor education, through, you know, 245 00:13:52,330 --> 00:13:55,480 just learning about Hawaiian culture. And then I found Verto, 246 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,010 and they were, they were seeking out someone based in the DC 247 00:14:00,010 --> 00:14:04,120 metropolitan area as a regional admissions counselor. So that 248 00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:09,940 was sort of my bridge between study abroad gap to now, sort of 249 00:14:09,940 --> 00:14:14,770 entering the world of higher education, which I feel like is 250 00:14:14,770 --> 00:14:18,400 a perfect metaphor for my own organization, for Verto 251 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,560 Education, because it's really what we are trying to 252 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,970 accomplish. It's a lot of things, but blending the best of 253 00:14:24,970 --> 00:14:28,210 a lot of what these different programs have to offer. 254 00:14:28,630 --> 00:14:32,140 Lauren: That's cool. I did a study abroad before my senior 255 00:14:32,140 --> 00:14:36,160 year of high school as well, in Salamanca, Spain, and I look 256 00:14:36,160 --> 00:14:38,890 back and I'm like, How did my parents just let me go to Spain 257 00:14:38,890 --> 00:14:43,300 for like, five weeks? Like, would I do that for my kids? I 258 00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:46,360 mean, I hope so. A lot of the characteristics that you were 259 00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:50,800 describing of, like, I came back more independent, and I think my 260 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:53,410 parents already did a pretty good job of, like, making me 261 00:14:53,410 --> 00:14:56,620 advocate for myself in a school setting and whatever. So this 262 00:14:56,620 --> 00:14:59,500 was kind of the icing on the cake, but it made me confident 263 00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:04,210 to go live away from home, and, you know, be an adult at 18 264 00:15:04,210 --> 00:15:05,590 years old. I was ready for that. 265 00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:08,980 And so I do think there are so many, so many skills that come 266 00:15:08,980 --> 00:15:12,580 from, from leaving your home and kind of doing that still in a 267 00:15:12,580 --> 00:15:15,010 safe place where you have supports, you have teachers, you 268 00:15:15,010 --> 00:15:18,610 have program leaders. You're not totally on your own, backpacking 269 00:15:18,610 --> 00:15:20,680 somewhere, but you have the support of a program, which is 270 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:21,190 pretty cool. 271 00:15:21,870 --> 00:15:25,410 I wanted to ask you, counselors are listening to this. Maybe 272 00:15:25,410 --> 00:15:27,930 they have in mind the students who are these, like high 273 00:15:27,930 --> 00:15:31,080 achievers, who they say, Oh yes, they're going to be perfect to 274 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:35,070 go study abroad, you know, wherever it is, whenever it is, 275 00:15:35,070 --> 00:15:37,230 whether it's before their freshman year of college or 276 00:15:37,230 --> 00:15:41,130 during college. What kind of characteristics would you say a 277 00:15:41,130 --> 00:15:44,160 counselor should be looking for in a student who they would who 278 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,340 they would encourage to go do this? Or would you say anyone is 279 00:15:47,460 --> 00:15:49,710 kind of qualified to do it? What should a counselor like be 280 00:15:49,710 --> 00:15:52,170 looking for in that student first and foremost, before they 281 00:15:52,170 --> 00:15:53,850 refer them to a program like this? 282 00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:58,620 Neal: So I'll give a bit of a nuanced answer here. You know my 283 00:15:58,620 --> 00:16:03,900 personal stance is that anybody can benefit from this type of 284 00:16:03,900 --> 00:16:09,150 experience. That being said, the world of study abroad is it's a 285 00:16:09,150 --> 00:16:13,050 self selecting population. While anybody can benefit from it, 286 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:16,920 it's not necessarily the best experience for everybody, 287 00:16:16,980 --> 00:16:20,640 particularly at different times of their life. They're going to 288 00:16:20,640 --> 00:16:24,390 want to see some students that are, I think, exhibiting a bit 289 00:16:24,390 --> 00:16:27,780 of independence, exhibiting a bit of maturity. And, of course, 290 00:16:27,780 --> 00:16:30,270 these are the same kinds of things that the students will 291 00:16:30,660 --> 00:16:33,900 ultimately receive as benefits from participating in a program 292 00:16:34,140 --> 00:16:38,280 overseas. But they have to, that student does have to recognize 293 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,180 that, hey, you know, I'm going away to college, which already 294 00:16:42,180 --> 00:16:45,330 in itself is a big leap, and then to add the layer of I'm 295 00:16:45,330 --> 00:16:49,320 going away to study in a collegiate environment in a 296 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,760 foreign country, that's when you know reality might start to set 297 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,730 in. And think like, oh my goodness, this is a daunting 298 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:57,510 experience. 299 00:16:57,000 --> 00:18:08,580 Lauren: Yeah, I think that's a great point. They have to have a 300 00:16:57,459 --> 00:17:01,125 So that student, I think, should be fully prepared in terms of 301 00:17:01,184 --> 00:17:04,555 the research they put into it, of understanding what that 302 00:17:04,615 --> 00:17:08,045 experience is going to be like. You know, with the college 303 00:17:08,104 --> 00:17:11,120 counselor, I think, kind of facilitating that, that 304 00:17:11,179 --> 00:17:14,905 research, or facilitating, you know, just thinking about those, 305 00:17:14,964 --> 00:17:18,690 those ideas. But they're going to want a student who's going to 306 00:17:18,749 --> 00:17:22,416 display some of that maturity, some of that independence. They 307 00:17:22,475 --> 00:17:26,201 are going to have to understand that to study abroad is exactly 308 00:17:26,260 --> 00:17:30,045 that. It is to study abroad and not just to be abroad, which, of 309 00:17:30,104 --> 00:17:33,830 course, in different countries, there are going to be different 310 00:17:33,889 --> 00:17:37,379 temptations than you would expect, compared to a, you know, 311 00:17:37,438 --> 00:17:40,986 for that student being in the United States. So having that, 312 00:17:41,045 --> 00:17:44,535 that ability to, you know, to self regulate and to advocate 313 00:17:44,594 --> 00:17:47,847 for oneself, I think, are going to be hugely important, 314 00:17:47,906 --> 00:17:50,922 especially when those traditional support networks, 315 00:17:50,981 --> 00:17:54,352 family, counselors, things like that, are not going to be 316 00:17:54,411 --> 00:17:57,782 present with them on site, at least in traditional sense, 317 00:17:57,841 --> 00:18:01,567 being able to self advocate in front of, you know, the program, 318 00:18:01,627 --> 00:18:04,998 staff, the directors, the faculty and country is going to 319 00:18:05,057 --> 00:18:06,240 be hugely important. 320 00:18:08,580 --> 00:18:11,400 little bit of that independence and maturity already, but 321 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:13,950 they're only going to come back with more of it if they take 322 00:18:13,950 --> 00:18:17,070 advantage of the program and they grow in the way that you 323 00:18:17,070 --> 00:18:19,860 intend them to grow. Because I'm sure there are kind of 324 00:18:19,860 --> 00:18:22,620 milestones as they're there, like you're going to class, 325 00:18:22,620 --> 00:18:25,530 you're passing your classes. You get to go on adventures on the 326 00:18:25,530 --> 00:18:28,170 weekend, like there are probably so many fun things, but they 327 00:18:28,170 --> 00:18:31,680 have to be able to balance it all and and do it all in another 328 00:18:31,680 --> 00:18:34,020 country, which might be intimidating. 329 00:18:34,650 --> 00:18:38,940 I'm sure parents have thoughts on programs like this too. I 330 00:18:38,940 --> 00:18:42,000 mean, maybe parents or students, their hesitations. What would 331 00:18:42,000 --> 00:18:46,020 you say to parents or students whose hesitations are the cost 332 00:18:46,020 --> 00:18:50,070 or affordability or safety? I mean, that's a big thing when 333 00:18:50,070 --> 00:18:52,620 the parents are sending their students far away. And then 334 00:18:52,620 --> 00:18:55,170 transfer credits, because we're talking about a program that 335 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,720 they're earning credits that are coming back to their school. So 336 00:18:57,720 --> 00:19:01,710 how, how do you address these big topics that are surely gonna 337 00:19:01,710 --> 00:19:04,230 come up as they're doing their research about stuff like this? 338 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,080 Neal: Oh, man, yeah, when it comes to, I guess, the parental 339 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:13,000 response to the idea of studying abroad, I see a lot of you know, 340 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,340 a full spectrum of different reactions in there. On the one 341 00:19:15,340 --> 00:19:19,600 hand, you have parents that are like, do it. This is the best 342 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,600 time in your life to do it. You know, oftentimes they have study 343 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,510 abroad experience themselves, and they are reflecting on that 344 00:19:25,510 --> 00:19:28,960 and thinking like, oh, man, if you can do this as a freshman, 345 00:19:29,290 --> 00:19:32,110 go ahead, do it. You're going to have an amazing experience. On 346 00:19:32,110 --> 00:19:34,450 the other hand, you do have parents are a little bit more 347 00:19:34,450 --> 00:19:37,390 guarded, a little bit more hesitant with that, thinking 348 00:19:37,390 --> 00:19:40,930 about like, oh, you know, whether it's first year abroad 349 00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:44,290 or a gap experience, this misconception that there's going 350 00:19:44,290 --> 00:19:47,350 to be a lack of structure, or there's going to be a lot of 351 00:19:47,410 --> 00:19:49,930 distractions, you know, for that student in place. 352 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:54,640 So I think reassuring parents that you know, in the context of 353 00:19:54,670 --> 00:19:58,480 first year abroad, students aren't just they're not the 354 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:02,830 traditional study broad population. These are young 355 00:20:02,830 --> 00:20:08,500 adults, ages 18, 19 years old, trying to not only navigate a 356 00:20:08,770 --> 00:20:11,110 foreign environment for the first time, but a collegiate 357 00:20:11,110 --> 00:20:15,250 environment for the first time. And with that as a first year 358 00:20:15,250 --> 00:20:19,210 abroad program, we have to, you know, make sure that there is a 359 00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,870 high level of student support in place in country, you know 360 00:20:22,870 --> 00:20:27,970 things like safety protocols, student orientations, where not 361 00:20:27,970 --> 00:20:31,180 only are we showing them, you know what to do in the case of 362 00:20:31,180 --> 00:20:34,900 emergency, what numbers to call, what staff to call, but you know 363 00:20:34,900 --> 00:20:37,780 even some life skills. How do you feed yourself? How do you 364 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:42,370 navigate a grocery store in Florence, Italy, for example. 365 00:20:42,790 --> 00:20:47,230 How to use a gas stove, which, you know, is surprisingly not 366 00:20:47,230 --> 00:20:50,260 intuitive for a lot of students. So letting them, you know, 367 00:20:50,260 --> 00:20:53,200 letting parents know that there's going to be a high level 368 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:57,580 of support in place for their students through, you know, we 369 00:20:57,580 --> 00:21:00,640 have a role at Verto called our Student Success Advisors, or 370 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,570 SSAs, which are program staff that work with a cohort of about 371 00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:09,730 30 students per advisor. And this person is, you know, is a 372 00:21:09,730 --> 00:21:14,050 former program instructor for, for gap. I have a lot of respect 373 00:21:14,050 --> 00:21:17,920 for these professionals, because they wear a lot of hats. They 374 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,210 are the big brother, big sisters, older siblings, for a 375 00:21:22,210 --> 00:21:25,240 lot of these students, providing mentorship, socio emotional 376 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,510 support as well as academic support to make sure that that 377 00:21:28,510 --> 00:21:30,940 student is having a positive experience while abroad. 378 00:21:31,410 --> 00:21:33,540 Lauren: Well, it's cool that they're that person exists 379 00:21:33,540 --> 00:21:36,090 there, because think about our students going off. They're 380 00:21:36,090 --> 00:21:39,360 going to make mistakes. They're going to run into something, 381 00:21:39,360 --> 00:21:42,210 whether they get sick there, and they don't know what medicine to 382 00:21:42,210 --> 00:21:43,920 take because their mom has always given it to them, like 383 00:21:43,950 --> 00:21:46,140 the things that you find in the transition to college, they're 384 00:21:46,140 --> 00:21:49,050 going to have that in another country. And so how they're 385 00:21:49,050 --> 00:21:52,380 going to respond to that is going to test their independence 386 00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:55,080 and maturity, but having somebody there and knowing how 387 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,450 to use the supports, I feel like, is going to be a way that 388 00:21:57,450 --> 00:21:58,710 they're going to grow when they're there. 389 00:21:59,190 --> 00:22:01,560 Neal: And that's why I say that, you know, and this is something 390 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,020 that we try and still in our students, is that idea of self 391 00:22:04,020 --> 00:22:09,570 advocacy, of self authorship, of when there's a problem that 392 00:22:09,570 --> 00:22:12,900 arises, the quickest way to solve it is by addressing it 393 00:22:12,900 --> 00:22:15,630 with, you know, with the resources available, with the 394 00:22:15,630 --> 00:22:19,620 staff on hand. Not to call mom and dad and play this game of 395 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:22,860 telephone where mom and dad then emails our Dean of Students, and 396 00:22:22,860 --> 00:22:25,380 Dean of Students then talks to the program staff, and by the 397 00:22:25,380 --> 00:22:29,070 time that loop closes, the problem was resolved already, 398 00:22:29,280 --> 00:22:30,780 you know, a week ago, right? 399 00:22:31,980 --> 00:22:33,990 Lauren: I mean, that's never happened before, right? 400 00:22:34,470 --> 00:22:40,620 Neal: Oh no, no, never, never, never. But it is, I mean, that 401 00:22:40,620 --> 00:22:45,300 is the reality of working with first year students, is they 402 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:48,060 need an extra layer of support, compared to your juniors or 403 00:22:48,060 --> 00:22:51,780 seniors in college that have two, three years of college 404 00:22:51,780 --> 00:22:54,630 already under their belt, so they know how things work. They 405 00:22:54,630 --> 00:22:57,570 might know how to advocate or self regulate a little bit 406 00:22:57,570 --> 00:23:00,420 better than some of these younger students. And you had 407 00:23:00,420 --> 00:23:03,870 asked a question for seeing some concerns that parents might have 408 00:23:03,870 --> 00:23:06,810 about maybe some of the more logistical aspects of the 409 00:23:06,810 --> 00:23:10,740 program, you know, talking about the transferability of credits, 410 00:23:10,860 --> 00:23:11,580 for example. 411 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,040 Lauren: Because I'm sure the parents want to know like, Hey, 412 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:17,730 you're doing something that's going to make sense with what 413 00:23:17,730 --> 00:23:20,430 you said your path was going to be. Because I bet they come into 414 00:23:20,430 --> 00:23:23,040 this like, Well, I was gonna go straight to college, but this 415 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,260 opportunity came up. So the parent wants to know, like, 416 00:23:25,290 --> 00:23:27,690 you're going to keep continuing with that plan, right? 417 00:23:28,170 --> 00:23:31,170 Neal: That is a common scenario where you know a student might 418 00:23:31,170 --> 00:23:34,410 come and say, like, Hey, maybe I want to have this experience 419 00:23:34,410 --> 00:23:38,700 before committing to a four year school. And parents are like, 420 00:23:38,730 --> 00:23:41,310 Oh, well, I don't want you backpacking across Europe for an 421 00:23:41,370 --> 00:23:45,900 undefined amount of time. So where are the guardrails? What's 422 00:23:45,900 --> 00:23:50,640 in place? Where's the structure here? In the context of Verto, 423 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:54,690 at least, you know, we work with an academic provider, as I 424 00:23:54,690 --> 00:23:57,750 mentioned, which is the the University of New Haven. So the 425 00:23:57,930 --> 00:24:00,960 the courses that students are taking will be coded for 426 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,170 University of New Haven. The transcript will reflect 427 00:24:04,170 --> 00:24:07,200 University of New Haven. If, you know, if I'm thinking about a 428 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:11,910 transfer applicant from Verto, and they are, you know, at a 429 00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:14,130 different institution, they're looking at that student's 430 00:24:14,130 --> 00:24:16,350 transcript, it'll be like, Oh, this was a University of New 431 00:24:16,350 --> 00:24:19,380 Haven transfer student. But in reality, it's actually, oh no, 432 00:24:19,380 --> 00:24:22,110 this student spent a year overseas. 433 00:24:22,510 --> 00:24:26,380 So with that, the student is gaining, you know, an official 434 00:24:26,380 --> 00:24:30,160 college transcript, so schools that will accept transfer credit 435 00:24:30,160 --> 00:24:32,710 from the University of New Haven are definitely on the table in 436 00:24:32,710 --> 00:24:35,830 terms of what comes after that Verto experience, and to 437 00:24:35,830 --> 00:24:39,670 reassure parents that their child is getting, is earning 438 00:24:39,670 --> 00:24:43,450 credits from a regionally accredited institution. And then 439 00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:46,000 with some of the partner schools that we work with, some of the 440 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,480 pathways that we have in place, we have this awesome direct 441 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:52,720 transfer pathway that dozens of different schools have set 442 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:56,770 individual eligibility requirements in terms of GPA, 443 00:24:56,770 --> 00:24:58,900 number of credits earned, number of semesters completed with 444 00:24:58,900 --> 00:25:02,560 Verto. Andassuming that student would reach those, those 445 00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:04,480 different checkpoints there, then they have dozens of 446 00:25:04,480 --> 00:25:06,790 different direct transfer schools, schools that are 447 00:25:06,790 --> 00:25:09,400 guaranteeing admission to students based on their Verto 448 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:10,120 performance. 449 00:25:10,540 --> 00:25:15,790 So from the student support side, you know, there's a lot of 450 00:25:15,820 --> 00:25:19,720 support on the ground for that, for that student, it's the 451 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:24,070 reality of the population that we work with. For the post Verto 452 00:25:24,070 --> 00:25:28,600 plan, the academic credentials that student is earning are 453 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,090 widely transferable to schools across the United States, but 454 00:25:31,120 --> 00:25:34,960 especially to the partner universities that we work with. 455 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:37,660 Lauren: What you're saying, what I'm hearing you say, is, you do 456 00:25:37,660 --> 00:25:40,870 a lot of the back end kind of research of transferring those 457 00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:44,590 credits, and someone who comes in either directly through Verto 458 00:25:44,590 --> 00:25:47,230 or through their university, it's like y'all have already 459 00:25:47,230 --> 00:25:50,110 worked through how we transfer the credits, how they show up on 460 00:25:50,110 --> 00:25:53,620 your transcript, making sure all those things are seamless. They 461 00:25:53,620 --> 00:25:56,710 just go get good grades in their classes, and the parents can 462 00:25:56,710 --> 00:25:59,200 rest assured, they will transfer, like you can have that 463 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,300 conversation up front, but they're going to transfer how 464 00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:04,570 they're supposed to if, because I assume you're doing that work 465 00:26:04,570 --> 00:26:06,370 behind the scenes, to make sure that happens. 466 00:26:06,940 --> 00:26:11,590 Neal: 100%. And you know, if I, if I were a business student, 467 00:26:11,590 --> 00:26:15,010 right now, a business grad student, I would definitely use 468 00:26:15,010 --> 00:26:19,030 Verto as a an interesting case study, because there's a lot of 469 00:26:19,030 --> 00:26:23,050 moving parts, a lot of collaboration across different 470 00:26:23,050 --> 00:26:28,270 institutions that Verto works with. So yeah, we put in, we 471 00:26:28,270 --> 00:26:31,180 have a lot of hard working folks here that are very mission 472 00:26:31,180 --> 00:26:33,820 driven by the idea that, you know, we need more students 473 00:26:33,820 --> 00:26:36,850 getting out there and having these global experiences now 474 00:26:36,850 --> 00:26:40,210 more than ever. So we are very dedicated to making sure that, 475 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,630 you know, not only we talk to talk and in this gap year 476 00:26:43,630 --> 00:26:46,900 without the gap experience, but we also walk the walk in, in 477 00:26:46,900 --> 00:26:49,990 terms of providing students with that, that continuity forward. 478 00:26:50,260 --> 00:26:53,200 Lauren: Yeah, I love that. And it's not just traveling, like 479 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,900 you said, putting on a backpack and going to Europe for an 480 00:26:56,020 --> 00:26:58,630 undisclosed amount of time. Like there are guardrails here that 481 00:26:58,630 --> 00:27:01,600 say, like, this is my plan during this time, when I finish, 482 00:27:01,630 --> 00:27:05,560 I'm going to go transfer here. It gives parents reassurance. It 483 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,800 gives students a goal to work towards. And I think it's a 484 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:11,710 really cool program and a cool opportunity that I mean, you 485 00:27:11,710 --> 00:27:14,830 might tell me it's been around for 100 years, but it feels like 486 00:27:14,860 --> 00:27:18,670 more of a newer, popular thing that colleges are offering for 487 00:27:18,670 --> 00:27:21,430 students these days. Like you said, whether it's they were 488 00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:24,490 deferred, they were rejected, this is just an opportunity we 489 00:27:24,490 --> 00:27:27,400 want to present to you to see if you're interested. And more and 490 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:29,110 more students are doing it, which I think is cool. 491 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:33,340 Neal: 100%. Yeah. And I think you are hitting on something 492 00:27:33,340 --> 00:27:36,700 there, that first year abroad as a concept is, it's fairly new. I 493 00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:39,130 mean, there are some institutions that have, you 494 00:27:39,130 --> 00:27:41,710 know, historically had a first year abroad program in place, 495 00:27:41,740 --> 00:27:45,280 and UN is one example that, Northeastern University is one 496 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,760 example that comes to mind. Our organization,we've only existed 497 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:53,410 since 2017, we've been able to work with about 3000 students 498 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:58,540 since then. But it is becoming something more more popular 499 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,240 amongst students, amongst universities, as something that 500 00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:04,180 they want to offer. If they're a large university that can 501 00:28:04,180 --> 00:28:08,770 facilitate, let's say, multiple campuses internationally, then 502 00:28:08,770 --> 00:28:12,220 they might have a first year abroad program in place, where 503 00:28:12,220 --> 00:28:16,450 Verto, we sort of serve as in the middle there, working with 504 00:28:16,450 --> 00:28:20,170 lots of universities that maybe, you know, it's not a great 505 00:28:20,170 --> 00:28:24,100 solution for them to have a bunch of international campuses 506 00:28:24,100 --> 00:28:26,620 where they would send students for that first semester, that 507 00:28:26,620 --> 00:28:27,640 first academic year. 508 00:28:28,770 --> 00:28:31,200 Lauren: Well, I'm sitting here thinking about counselors having 509 00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,810 these conversations with students in their office. 510 00:28:33,810 --> 00:28:37,500 They're planning for the future with students and parents in 511 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:41,730 their office, like individual meetings. And I just think that 512 00:28:41,730 --> 00:28:44,490 this episode will be super valuable to them, just to 513 00:28:44,490 --> 00:28:48,390 consider this as a pathway, as they're laying out, where their 514 00:28:48,390 --> 00:28:51,960 students could go after high school. Because we often will 515 00:28:51,990 --> 00:28:55,170 spout out two year college, four year college, straight to work, 516 00:28:55,170 --> 00:28:58,200 military, like those are kind of like your four main pathways. 517 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,800 And we're good at talking about those four things, we get a 518 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:04,830 little nervous talking about things that could be a little 519 00:29:04,830 --> 00:29:07,320 different, because we're not sending hundreds of kids from 520 00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:10,950 our, even our big high schools, to go do this. It might be one 521 00:29:10,950 --> 00:29:14,610 kid a year, or every couple of years, who takes this challenge 522 00:29:14,610 --> 00:29:18,840 and runs with it, but I hope that this episode could just be 523 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,930 a thing that goes, filed in the back of their mind, so that when 524 00:29:21,930 --> 00:29:25,050 a student kind of mentions wanting some adventure or 525 00:29:25,230 --> 00:29:27,300 wanting to try something different, where they have that 526 00:29:27,330 --> 00:29:30,180 letter from the university and they say, What is this? I don't 527 00:29:30,180 --> 00:29:33,780 know what to make of this, help me, that they can hear a little 528 00:29:33,780 --> 00:29:35,910 bit about a program like this and think, Okay, that's a 529 00:29:35,910 --> 00:29:38,910 pathway that I could send some of my students on. I think this 530 00:29:38,940 --> 00:29:41,460 information will be really valuable for counselors to take 531 00:29:41,460 --> 00:29:42,540 back to their students. 532 00:29:43,110 --> 00:29:46,230 Neal: Yeah, and, you know, I appreciate that. I think a big 533 00:29:46,230 --> 00:29:50,400 part of my role is really to educate counselors, you know, on 534 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:55,710 this subject, or really to maybe try and bring down some 535 00:29:55,710 --> 00:29:59,280 resistance to the idea of trying something new or trying 536 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:02,610 something different. and this just represents a stepping stone 537 00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:05,610 along that. It might not be, you know, starting on that 538 00:30:05,610 --> 00:30:09,750 traditional campus, that first year, there might be the the 539 00:30:09,750 --> 00:30:12,780 sacrifice of having to miss those big, you know, football 540 00:30:12,780 --> 00:30:17,190 games and events like that, but trying to help students 541 00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:22,530 understand that like you know, this, this ultimately is part of 542 00:30:22,530 --> 00:30:25,500 the bigger picture here. This is ultimately helping you achieve 543 00:30:25,860 --> 00:30:28,860 your goals and just giving students that reassurance of, 544 00:30:28,890 --> 00:30:32,880 you know, hey, maybe consider it from this angle. Maybe 545 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,900 understand that this is a viable part of your college experience, 546 00:30:37,260 --> 00:30:38,820 just in a different way. 547 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,190 Lauren: Totally. And with anything there are trade offs. 548 00:30:41,190 --> 00:30:44,550 Like you said, yeah, maybe you missed the freshman orientation 549 00:30:44,580 --> 00:30:49,560 or the first home football game, but okay, you are hiking in the 550 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,220 Alps, or you're like, rafting in Costa Rica, or something like, I 551 00:30:53,220 --> 00:30:56,820 promise you're gonna have some unique experience to come back 552 00:30:56,820 --> 00:30:58,230 and share with friends that you make. 553 00:30:58,860 --> 00:31:01,830 Neal: Well, easier said than done. Trying to tell a young 554 00:31:01,830 --> 00:31:05,220 adult that, like, Hey, you might miss out on what everyone else 555 00:31:05,220 --> 00:31:09,240 is doing but in the greater context of your of your life, 556 00:31:09,270 --> 00:31:12,600 you know, taking that, that trip to Spain, you know that that 557 00:31:12,600 --> 00:31:15,240 might represent a once in a lifetime opportunity. 558 00:31:15,270 --> 00:31:17,220 Lauren: Right, that would be hard. That would be hard. 559 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:21,210 Neal: I do work with a lot of adults that when they learn 560 00:31:21,210 --> 00:31:23,640 about, you know, these kinds of experiences, when they learn 561 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:26,910 about Verto Education, they think, where was that when I was 562 00:31:26,910 --> 00:31:32,640 in school? Or, man, I wish I had, I had studied abroad. And I 563 00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:36,090 would make the argument that the freshman year is is likely the 564 00:31:36,090 --> 00:31:40,440 best time to study abroad, without the constraints of major 565 00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,700 specific courses, without the constraints of different social 566 00:31:44,700 --> 00:31:48,690 relationships, which are, you know, powerful factors in your 567 00:31:49,020 --> 00:31:50,790 late teens, early 20s. 568 00:31:51,110 --> 00:31:55,070 And just being able to live in a foreign country or experience a 569 00:31:55,070 --> 00:31:57,860 foreign country is the closest that you can get to living a 570 00:31:58,250 --> 00:32:02,900 second life, in my mind. And who wouldn't want to experience 571 00:32:02,900 --> 00:32:05,750 that, maybe I'm biased here, but who wouldn't want to experience 572 00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:10,670 that, that formative period. And to be able to look back, you 573 00:32:10,670 --> 00:32:14,000 know, 10, 20 years from now and reflect on on that, and then 574 00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,200 say, like, Hey, I took the leap. I did it, I pushed my comfort 575 00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:23,060 zone, and I gained a lot from it. And that is what we, that is 576 00:32:23,060 --> 00:32:27,110 the argument that we try and make to students all the time, 577 00:32:27,500 --> 00:32:29,780 which, you know, doesn't always work. 578 00:32:29,780 --> 00:32:31,640 Lauren: But it's worth a shot. 579 00:32:32,060 --> 00:32:35,600 Neal: Worth a shot, of course, historically easy to to persuade 580 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,050 population right? Kidding, of course. But yeah. 581 00:32:39,140 --> 00:32:41,630 Lauren: well, hopefully a counselor, hearing you say that, 582 00:32:41,630 --> 00:32:44,030 and just like hearing all the value that comes from that, 583 00:32:44,060 --> 00:32:46,580 that, like I said, goes in the back of their mind when they're 584 00:32:46,580 --> 00:32:48,380 having that conversation, saying, you know, I think you're 585 00:32:48,380 --> 00:32:51,080 a great candidate for this, and I think that you'll only grow 586 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:55,130 because of it. I love the point you made about really doing this 587 00:32:55,130 --> 00:32:58,340 before you're invested in friendships and community at the 588 00:32:58,340 --> 00:33:01,280 school, like they can do that their sophomore year or after 589 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:03,560 that summer period, whatever that is, they're going to 590 00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,050 assimilate and find their way into that and find their friends 591 00:33:06,050 --> 00:33:09,740 when they get there. But it is harder to peel away from 592 00:33:09,950 --> 00:33:13,040 leadership positions that you're taking or you're going to be a 593 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:16,160 TA for a class you had to apply for that, like those kinds of 594 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,500 things, are harder to pull away once you're already invested in 595 00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:22,730 the community. So I do think it would be really advantageous to 596 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,510 do this in between high school and college. So this was a great 597 00:33:26,510 --> 00:33:27,320 conversation. 598 00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:31,910 After they have listened to this. Is there somewhere where 599 00:33:32,030 --> 00:33:34,880 counselors should go for more information? Should they go to 600 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,150 your website? Should they be looking at colleges websites 601 00:33:38,150 --> 00:33:40,160 with their students? Like, what should they do to get more 602 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:41,120 information next. 603 00:33:41,330 --> 00:33:44,060 Neal: absolutely. Yeah. So for Verto specific things, of 604 00:33:44,060 --> 00:33:48,680 course, the vertoeducation.org. That is our website. And you 605 00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:51,530 know, within that, we have a lot of great resources, not only 606 00:33:51,530 --> 00:33:54,980 detailing our different campuses, our course 607 00:33:54,980 --> 00:33:57,890 registration guide, which I think is going to be hugely 608 00:33:57,890 --> 00:34:01,490 important for counselors, in particular, thinking about their 609 00:34:01,490 --> 00:34:04,340 students, of if they participate in Verto, how will those 610 00:34:04,340 --> 00:34:08,180 individual courses, how might they transfer? So we provide our 611 00:34:08,240 --> 00:34:12,200 our syllabi online with the University of New Haven course 612 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:14,900 codes. So for any transfer equivalency tools out there, 613 00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:16,940 it's just kind of, you know, plug and play with those course 614 00:34:16,940 --> 00:34:17,360 codes. 615 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:20,900 We have a blog on our website with a ton of different 616 00:34:20,900 --> 00:34:25,670 resources detailing some common student experiences. You know, 617 00:34:25,670 --> 00:34:30,110 how to finance your your time abroad, what to expect, how to 618 00:34:30,110 --> 00:34:34,550 apply for a passport, things of that nature. But for general 619 00:34:34,550 --> 00:34:38,330 information, you know, I think gooverseas.com is a great 620 00:34:38,330 --> 00:34:44,960 resource for that. It's sort of the Yelp of of this 621 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,110 international education world with tons of different programs 622 00:34:48,110 --> 00:34:52,400 that are listed and available, including our own. I myself, I 623 00:34:52,430 --> 00:34:56,000 run a counselor webinar series that details different parts of 624 00:34:56,450 --> 00:35:00,470 thestudent experience. What does academics look like at Verto? 625 00:35:00,740 --> 00:35:03,740 How do we incorporate experiential learning in our 626 00:35:03,740 --> 00:35:07,610 classroom? So any one of those, those different resources, both 627 00:35:07,610 --> 00:35:09,500 to learn more about us and also learn more about what other 628 00:35:09,500 --> 00:35:11,000 programs are out there. 629 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:13,850 Lauren: Well, it sounds like they have a lot of learning 630 00:35:13,850 --> 00:35:17,180 opportunities if they want to actually learn more for their 631 00:35:17,180 --> 00:35:20,480 own professional development. But also, I mean, I would take 632 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,120 this information and put it on my school counseling website, 633 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,660 put it on my school website, so that students know it is a 634 00:35:26,660 --> 00:35:29,180 different pathway than maybe they've heard of before that 635 00:35:29,180 --> 00:35:32,900 it's even a thing. Because just exposure to something new, I 636 00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:35,330 think, is really powerful for our students, especially if they 637 00:35:35,330 --> 00:35:38,330 don't have siblings or parents who have done study abroad. This 638 00:35:38,330 --> 00:35:40,940 would be a whole new thing, but they might be the right student, 639 00:35:40,940 --> 00:35:43,760 and this might be the right fit for them. So thank you, Neal, 640 00:35:43,790 --> 00:35:46,580 for being on the podcast. This was super insightful, really 641 00:35:46,580 --> 00:35:50,060 helpful, to give our counselors just another option for their 642 00:35:50,060 --> 00:35:53,510 students as they're planning their post secondary options. 643 00:35:53,990 --> 00:35:57,140 Neal: Lauren, thank you so much for for having me on here the 644 00:35:57,140 --> 00:36:00,590 day after National Study Abroad day. Yeah, I really enjoyed our 645 00:36:00,590 --> 00:36:03,050 conversation, and I'm excited for your listeners to hear it 646 00:36:03,050 --> 00:36:03,290 too. 647 00:36:03,650 --> 00:36:04,760 Lauren: Awesome. Thanks. 648 00:36:05,780 --> 00:36:09,050 Okay, wasn't that inspirational to hear Neal talk about this 649 00:36:09,050 --> 00:36:12,740 program that maybe you haven't considered? You heard me mention 650 00:36:12,740 --> 00:36:15,710 in the episode that I did a study abroad program when I was 651 00:36:15,710 --> 00:36:19,250 in high school, and talking to Neal just got me reminiscing on 652 00:36:19,250 --> 00:36:21,950 that. I thought about all of the characteristics that I developed 653 00:36:21,950 --> 00:36:25,310 when I was there, and the growth opportunities that I had to be 654 00:36:25,340 --> 00:36:28,760 pushed out of my comfort zone and grow while I was still in 655 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,780 high school, which is wild. But I don't think people look back 656 00:36:32,780 --> 00:36:35,360 on an experience like this and say, I wish I wouldn't have done 657 00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,600 it. You hear more of the I wish I would have done it. I wish I 658 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,090 would have taken more time to do this. What he was kind of 659 00:36:41,090 --> 00:36:43,520 echoing from parents saying, I wish I either had that 660 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:46,550 experience or wish I could go back and do it again. And I'm 661 00:36:46,550 --> 00:36:48,950 sure if you had an experience like this, you listened to this 662 00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:52,730 episode and thought, wow, what I would give to drop everything 663 00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:55,160 and go study abroad in another country. It would be really 664 00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:55,850 cool, right? 665 00:36:56,270 --> 00:36:58,970 So I hope you take Neal's resources, whether that's the 666 00:36:58,970 --> 00:37:02,630 webinars that he offers to counselors or just the websites 667 00:37:02,660 --> 00:37:06,440 that he offers, and share them with your students. Let them 668 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:09,620 know that this is an opportunity for them that maybe they haven't 669 00:37:09,620 --> 00:37:12,680 considered before. Or maybe when they get that admissions letter 670 00:37:12,710 --> 00:37:15,590 from their college that they're planning on attending next year, 671 00:37:15,590 --> 00:37:18,590 and it offers them an opportunity to go study abroad, 672 00:37:18,920 --> 00:37:21,170 point them to this episode, or point their parents to this 673 00:37:21,170 --> 00:37:23,900 episode. I know I'm talking to you as high school counselors, 674 00:37:24,080 --> 00:37:27,590 but if it could help others, share it out, let them know what 675 00:37:27,590 --> 00:37:31,010 is out there and that this is a viable opportunity for them. I'd 676 00:37:31,010 --> 00:37:35,120 love to just spread this message far and wide and let people know 677 00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,780 that there are true advantages to having a global perspective 678 00:37:38,990 --> 00:37:42,680 as our students move from high school into the college arena. 679 00:37:43,010 --> 00:37:45,230 So I hope this episode was helpful for you and gave you 680 00:37:45,230 --> 00:37:47,450 some new ideas as you're working with your students. I'll see you 681 00:37:47,450 --> 00:37:47,960 next week. 682 00:37:50,060 --> 00:37:52,490 Thanks for listening to today's episode of High School 683 00:37:52,490 --> 00:37:55,820 Counseling Conversations. All the links I talked about today 684 00:37:55,820 --> 00:37:58,040 can be found in the show notes and also at 685 00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:02,600 counselorclique.com/podcast. Be sure to hit follow wherever you 686 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:05,690 listen to your podcast, so that you never miss a new episode. 687 00:38:06,260 --> 00:38:08,900 Connect with me over on Instagram. Feel free to send me 688 00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:13,970 a DM @counselorclique. That's C, L, I, Q, U, E. I'll see you next 689 00:38:13,970 --> 00:38:14,270 week.