Fear and anxiety.

We all have felt it at some point, but how do we break free from the illusions that fear brings as believers and as worship leaders?

Today on worship leader Pod, I sit down with one of my dearest friends and someone I look up to, Lisa Brunson.

Lisa shares her powerful testimony about how Jesus set her free from panic attacks and brought healing to her mind through the word.

So open up your heart and prepare for God to meet you wherever you are.

Let's get into it.

Hello and welcome to worship Leaderpod.

I'm Amber Fugett, your host.

And today I am super excited because today's guest is someone who I have looked up to for many, many years and has been such an impact in my life and I know and so many other people lives as well.

She's a wife.

She is a mother to two beautiful daughters.

She's a traveling worship leader, minister, songwriter.

I mean, literally all the things.

And, I mean, I'm just so excited to have her here.

She's going to share so much fresh perspective and revelation on some things.

I'm not going to spoil it yet.

But most importantly, her love and her devotion to the Lord is just so evident, so authentic, and I just.

And so excited for you guys to lean in and to hear from Misses Lisa Brunson.

Give it up.

Give it up.

Woo woo, baby.

Well, welcome to the pod, Lisa.

Thank you so much for taking time from your busy schedule and being here and conversating with me on some fun things.

Thank you so much.

I am so excited to be here and honored, but I have to first start by saying that, amber, I am so proud of you.

I knew you before you were married and before you were a mama and before you were leading worship and doing all the things you're doing.

And I have been so privileged to watch you essentially kind of grow up.

You were.

I felt like a baby when I first met you.

And it's been such a joy to watch you just mature, not that you were immature or anything like that.

To watch you grow and just handle challenges with grace.

I just.

I'm a fan.

Oh, my goodness.

You're gonna make me cry.

Don't.

Don't make me mess up my lashes.

Now, hold on.

I really, really, really appreciate that because I know that I was literally thinking about this as I was preparing.

I was like, lisa's always been like my auntie.

Do you know what I mean?

Like, we met when I.

So I went to Bible college in Ohio, and you were the worship leader for the church or worship director at at the Bible college, I mean, you did, like, all the things, and I just felt like any time I got to hang out with you in different settings, I was like, that's my auntie.

You, like, took me by, took me by the hand to guide me, to have good conversations, to lead me, and to really, like, you really were my auntie.

You're like family.

You and your amazing husband just, like, really brought me in as family and really, like, guided me and kind of, like, had your eye on me the whole time.

I feel like, yeah, yeah, definitely.

I was thankful for.

Thankful for God connections.

It's so true.

It's so true.

And it's funny because every time I think about this, you know, I went to world Harvest Bible college, and I went there with no intention to lead worship at all.

And I'm still forgiving you about that.

I know you're like, wait a minute.

Why aren't you in?

And it's.

I was like, now I'm thinking, like, I, like, totally miss God on that one.

Like, I feel like I really need to be in those classes with Lisa because, like, the depth and, I mean, you did speak to in a lot of different of my other classes, too, which I, like, always gravitated to.

Cause I think you're just so authentic and raw and, like, you say it like it is, and, like, I really needed that.

And I'm kind of like, I can be kind of meek or, like, unspoken.

I'm like, I don't want to, like, step on toes, and you're like, no, we're just.

We're going for it.

And I, like, really needed that.

And so I I feel like even in my journey at Bible college with, like, basically running away from leading worship in a sense, and just doing everything opposite of that, I was still watching you being, whoa.

There's something so dynamic about how you lead and how you foster your relationship with the Lord.

Like, really is beautiful.

And I don't say that hype you up.

It's like, you can hang out with people and you can say, okay, yeah, they love Jesus, but when I'm around you, I feel Jesus.

Like, that should be always the take with anybody, right, as worship leaders.

And so, yeah, anyways, I do think it's funny that I, like, had, like, the best worship leader at the tips of my hand at Bible college, and yet I did not partake.

But here we are.

Here we are.

We still connected, and we have connected throughout the years, which I'm super, super thankful for.

I really am.

I'm super thankful for that, even.

I was thinking about a couple years ago when my daughter broke her leg.

And I remember you on instagram were like, is it okay if I just send your daughter some goodies, some coloring books and things like that?

Because your daughter had an injury, right?

Which daughter was it?

Well, they both have had both, yes.

Yeah.

From gymnastics and trampoline parks, they've had fractured.

Yeah.

Fractured bones in their ankles and in their feet.

So as a mom, my mama heart went out to you and to your little girl.

Well, honestly, to your whole family, because I know, like, when one's down, how bad that is.

Yeah.

So I was like, you know, let me send something to help her pass the time and to help with your sanity a little bit.

Yes.

Honestly, that spoke volumes to me because it's like, one thing to be like, oh, too bad, you know?

And then another be like, I'm actually gonna go out of my way to do something small but large, you know?

And, like, for my daughter, that was such a big deal because we were.

We went camping the next day after she broke her leg, and I was, like, pulling her on a wagon the entire time, and she sitting there coloring and doing all the things.

And so, really, that spoke volumes to me.

So I think I just love you for that.

Well, I love you for everything, but I'm super thankful for that.

Thank you.

But that's kingdom.

That's what Jesus would do, so.

Yes, yes.

Yeah.

Which is why I love you.

It's all kingdom.

It's never just.

It's not superficial.

It's not pretend.

It's.

It's authentic.

And I really, really appreciate that.

Okay, so I have a burning question.

It's not a question.

It's more of a statement and or open discussion.

So I remember if everyone who's listening, you guys know the famous worship song Waymaker, right?

You know the song there's the bridge.

Even when I can't feel it, you're working.

Did you know that Lisa actually wrote that part?

So I remember you singing that part.

I think it was, like, at dominican meeting at World Harvester somewhere, but.

And I remember going, whoa, that is fresh.

And.

And then it blowing up.

And I'm like, wait a minute.

So I got confused.

And then I remember you posted a video.

You went to a mass city concert, I think, and they were doing that song, and they yelled out Auntie Lisa.

And I, like, loved that because I was like, that was just, again, kingdom family.

I love that.

Okay, so my question, or the open discussion is, okay, how did that come about?

That part in the song, like, where did that come from?

Was it in the middle of a worship set?

Was it something you were working on, like, behind closed doors?

Where?

And is it.

You tell me.

Yeah.

Okay.

So I.

We did this song.

I was on staff at.

My husband and I were on staff at world harvest at the time, and we did the song there, but I had never done the bridge of the song, the original bridge of the song.

And if my husband, in the duration of his life, has had some health challenges, and he had had a surgery on his eye several times, and every time, the surgeon, who was so sweet and kind, she was so hopeful, and she was like, this surgery is going to fix the issue.

It's going to fix it.

And every time she came out after the surgery and was like, I wasn't able to fix it.

And the last surgery he had was a pretty major one on the eye.

And she came out after, and she had been so helpful before.

And she came out, and I was in the waiting room with my parents, and she said, I don't think that I'm going to be able to do anything else with the condition in his eye.

And so I said, so what does that mean?

Like, you said, you were going to be able to fix it.

And she said, I think it's going to be what it is, which is very limited to no vision in that eye.

And we were devastated because we had two really little girls at the time.

And in moments like that, I think the future goes in front of you.

And I was like, so, like, is he going to be able to teach our girls how to drive?

Is he going to be able to teach them to ride a bike?

How?

Like, all the things that dads do, like, are they going to have to walk him down the aisle at their wedding, or is he going to walk them down the aisle?

You know, because, I mean, the issue that he has in his eye can affect the other eye as well.

And we were banking on either the lord touching that eye or surgery fixing the issue.

And she had tears in her eyes, and I'm.

Because I'm saying this stuff to her, and she said, unless God fixes it, I can't do anything else.

And we were devastated.

And so we went to our pastor, and we said, can we have this Sunday off to go be with our family?

And my brother in law and sister had planted a church in Louisville, and so we came down and spent the weekend with them.

And the whole time we were there, my sister was like, do you want to sing?

Do you want to sing Sunday?

And I was just like, no.

Like, I'm so brokenhearted.

We're trying to grapple with what will be a new reality if God doesn't intervene.

And so I didn't end up singing that Sunday, but I standing there in the second service, they have multiple services standing there in the second service of them, and they were singing way maker.

I just looked at my husband and I felt the spirit of God and I started singing.

Even when I don't see it, you're working.

Even when I don't feel it.

And everybody thinks, oh, the see it thing is a really cool line that is really literal to us because he doesn't see out of that eye.

So even though he doesn't see, doesn't mean that God's not working.

So I'm sitting there and I'm just kind of, like, saying that chant or whatever and singing, like, along with the song.

And my brother in law, who is the pastor, went up to transition the service, and all of a sudden he looked at me and he said, whatever the Lord just gave you, get up here and get a mic and sing it and declare it.

He had no idea that that had happened and or that the Lord had just given me those lyrics.

And so I walked up and I just started singing it, and the church, like, exploded and went nuts.

So the next Sunday, we went back to, we were at World harvest and we did the song in worship, and I had never planned on singing it again.

I just thought it was one of those things for that moment.

It ministered to my family, it ministered to the church, the people.

And, you know, you'll have moments like that in worship where you sing a phrase or a series of, like four lines or something, and it's just for the moment and you never revisit it again.

Well, the Lord brought it back up in me, and so I did it that Sunday, and then I think, like, two weeks later was the Sunday morning of Dominion camp meeting where I did it, and then that went viral, and then the Pentecostal was of Alexandria started doing it, and then it really went viral, and then everyone just adopted that bridge.

Wow.

So, but that's where it came from.

It came from a season of heartbreak and just declaring and believing, and we are so still declaring and believing it today.

Yes.

I love that because it's this, exactly what you said.

It's like, I'm singing like, this song is life.

It wasn't just like this fun little thing that you just wanted to add.

It's like this was my lifeline.

Like, God gave me this song, and it's amazing how God will give you something that is for you but then also.

Then starts breaking out for other people.

Yeah.

Because that's how God moves.

Yeah.

And I think that that's what worship does.

It gives.

It gives language to thoughts and feelings that we.

And let me say worship music, I think that's what worship music does.

It gives language to thoughts and feelings that people have not, up until that point, been able to articulate.

And so then when a writer or a psalmist articulates it in the moment, then people that have needed that grab onto it.

And I think that's why that lyric that God gave me was so powerful in that moment and still, like.

I mean, that's been.

Oh, my gosh.

So many years ago.

Yeah.

And people still are singing that song and bridge today because I think that everyone can relate to it in some way.

Absolutely.

It's like.

It's like a universal, you know, it's a universal, like, line.

Because it's not.

It's for anyone at any time and any season.

Yes.

And so it really.

And that, honestly, like, I remember when you did that at camp meeting, I was like, something just hit the floor.

Yeah.

It was something different, because, I mean, I.

I really.

You know, faith is an interesting thing because we always think that faith is the answer to the issue.

And really, faith is the believing through the issue.

That's good.

And so it just, like, in that moment, that moment at Dominion camp meeting, I was like, man, there was a, like a holy.

Not indignation, but like a holy belief that.

I mean, it doesn't matter, God, if you never do it, you're still working.

Yes.

You know, and the faith is believing that you can and trusting when you don't.

That's so good.

Yes, absolutely.

Oh, that's spot on.

And it's exactly that.

It's just that faith is exactly what you just said.

And when we grab ahold of that, then we really can sing that line or sing in faith, even when things don't look like you want them to.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's so, so good.

I remember you sharing on Instagram a handful of years ago on one of your new songs, perfect love, and you were talking a lot, actually, you made a huge.

It was a long post about your testimony on being fearful and having anxiety attacks.

And I remember, and I'm trying to remember what.

Do you remember what year that was?

So they started.

I can tell you the day it started.

Okay.

It started on December 1 wow.

2012.

Okay.

And it was before it was like, and hear my heart.

I feel like people are very much more open in sharing the struggle.

And it's kind of like anxiety and fear and panic are like the.

I actually have heard it called the disease of the millennials, but back when I first started experiencing it, nobody talked about it.

Nobody talked about that.

It was like, that allowed to, right?

Yeah.

And it first came to me in the way of postpartum.

So I had just had our daughter, our first baby, and she was born on November 28.

And on December 1, everyone had finally left our house.

And my husband said, I'm gonna run up to the store.

Are you okay to be here for a few minutes by yourself?

And I was like, oh, yeah, I'm fine.

Well, when he left, the strangest feeling gripped me and paralyzed me.

And it was almost like I had an out of body experience.

I visualized, and it was so real to me, someone breaking into my home and raping our newborn.

And I felt like they made me watch it.

And it was so real.

When my husband got home, he found me in a corner cleaning up blood that I thought was there, but it wasn't.

And that was my first experience with panic, fear, anxiety.

And from then on, until probably like, four years ago, I dealt with it daily.

And it would be like I would try to visualize or not try to visualize, but my mind would show me a hundred ways something bad was going to happen in a day.

And then that vision would then cause me to have a panic attack.

It then would cause me to be fearful.

You know, if my husband was five minutes late from getting home from work, I would think that he was dead on the side of the road.

And it was really just like a fear of the unknown.

So that's how it started from there.

I mean, I dealt with it, and again, nobody knew about it.

I shared it with a couple of people who were very close to me because I had stopped traveling up until that point.

I had.

I.

I was gone multiple days during a week, you know, traveling with our pastor, leading worship, singing.

And I went to him and was like, I can't do this anymore.

I'm done.

And never told him what was going on because I was embarrassed.

And I was like, man, like, you should be strong enough to deal with this.

But when those moments would happen, my mind could not formulate the prayers I knew I should be praying to and post that I have been.

I talked with a counselor and have been in therapy, and they were like, you have literal breaks from reality.

Like, you should have been institutionalized because you were thinking things were happening that weren't really happening.

And I suffered like that for probably seven or eight years daily.

And two people knew my husband.

I tell him all the time, I'm like, you're a literal saint.

I don't know how you lived with me.

Wow.

You know, panic attacks.

I would lay awake in bed at night thinking that I was having heart attacks and dying, and it literally felt like a heart attack.

And I would lay there and I would hold his hand, you know, and he would be asleep, and I would be like, I'm dying.

I'm dying.

It was just very real and very debilitating.

Yeah.

I mean, that's.

Yeah.

And it's.

It's, again, this thing that you brought up of, like, it's almost.

It feels, like, embarrassing to bring those kinds of things up.

And people really struggle with that on a daily basis.

And I feel like now, like, what you're saying, like, now, it's like, more than ever, there's counseling for all kinds of things that's open, it's in the church, it's everything.

But it's like, why do we wait so long to have that available?

Especially.

Not just especially, but for worship leaders, those who are in ministry, those who are doing, I mean, their go, go, go, their mental capacity.

We're still human, you know?

And so to be able to navigate that just seems, like, so struck.

So, yeah, it's just so hard.

Yeah.

When it first started, I thought it was, like postpartum that never left, and I, like, dealt with and.

But then beyond that, I think it was this.

I think that I had ran at such a quick pace and never gave myself the opportunity to rest and to deal with life.

I was always like, I'm going to get it done.

I've got this class to teach.

I've got this service to lead worship for, and I'm just going to keep pressing through.

And, like, I was singing on the outside, but I was crying on the inside.

And I lived like that for years, and it was just not healthy.

And so when my body had time to sit and stop moving and process, I just freaked out, you know?

And it.

I mean, it was.

It was difficult.

I do want to say this, though.

I am.

There is life on the other side of it that is a huge part of my story.

You know, it's one thing to say, you know, I struggle with fear.

It's another thing to say, I should have been institutionalized, right?

Because, like, my mind wasn't working.

When I started getting help for it, I realized that mental health is all through the Bible.

It was just never talked about, you know, one of the, one of the biggest verses that you will hear on the prosperity of the Lord and the goodness of the Lord is beloved.

I wish above all things that you prosper and be in health.

But then we would quote it even as your soul prospers, but it would leave us so quickly.

So then I started thinking, okay, Lord, you want me to prosper.

You want me to be healthy, but you want that only as my mind, my will and my emotions are healthy.

So you care about my mind, God, you care about the way I feel.

And that was a whole revelation to me, that sense.

Now every time I open the Bible, I see mental health in it, you know that.

You know, the Bible says that Jesus was a man of sorrow and he was acquainted with grief like that.

I mean, that would tell me that Jesus wasn't happy all the time, you know, and we have this, I think, innate need that culture and society, you know, puts on us to just look like it doesn't matter if you're really not, at least look like it.

And I have had to come to grips with that, you know, as in, I mean, my daughter is now, she's fixing to turn twelve, you know, so I've dealt with it for a long time, but I have been free from panic attacks for the last four years.

That doesn't mean I don't ever fight it.

But I realized that I think it like this.

It's like the first level is fear, then the second level is anxiety, and then the third level is panic.

And really, the Bible talks so much about fear and I.

But fear really is, when I experienced fear, it was a lack of trust in God.

So I had to look at my relationship with the Lord and say, where do I not trust you?

Wow.

Why am I fearful?

Because I'm fearful because really, I think that you might let bad things happen.

Because honestly, you did let bad things happen.

Yeah.

Like, I mean, the thing with my husband's health, he's still walking today and, you know, he doesn't have a lot of sight out of that eye.

So I had to reconcile that.

Like, God, I believed you for this.

I did all the right things.

I prayed, I fasted, I sewed, and you still didn't answer.

So that means I don't really trust that in this compartment that I put you in that you're going to answer here either.

Yeah.

So it was a real, like a come to Jesus kind of moment in my walk with the Lord that I realized I'm experiencing fear, anxiety, and panic, all because I really don't trust Jesus.

Wow.

And so now when I feel feelings of fear or anxiety or trepidation come on me.

I pause and I say, God, help me trust you.

Let me give you this feeling that I need to control it and help me to trust you.

And I.

Amber, it is the craziest thing since I have started doing that when I verbally give that to him.

And there are even times where I'm like, I'm handing this to you, God.

I'm giving it to you.

That.

That feeling then leaves.

Wow.

But it took me walking through a process and unraveling and saying, if God didn't give me the spirit of fear, then why do I have it?

So, if he didn't give it and he is truth and he is life, then fear must be a lie.

Hmm.

Wow.

God.

The Bible says that God didn't give us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and a sound mind.

The Bible relates fear with your mental capacity.

Otherwise, why would he have said sound mind?

That's so good.

Right?

He gave me the spirit of power, meaning I have power over fear of love, meaning that I can love and love the Lord and love my family.

And he gave me a spirit of sound mind.

You know, so, so many times, I see the.

I see the.

The saying that's real popular that says faith over fear.

And I always say, it's not faith over fear, it's faith through fear.

Good.

And that's something different.

Like, even though my mind will formulate thoughts of fear, I'm gonna have faith through it.

Through it, that he is good.

Yeah.

And tell us a little bit about that.

What does that look like?

So, one you said, which I want to highlight again, because practicality, for anyone who's listening that struggles with anxiety and fear is to identify it and call it out.

Right.

So verbally call it out, put it.

Pull it out of the dark into the light.

That's something, practically, you can do to work out that faith through fear.

What are some other things that you think help with doing that?

So, for me, I'm very literal.

So when I would have a panic attack or be fearful, if I said earlier, like, my mind wouldn't formulate the thought.

So anywhere I would start to get.

Have feelings of panic, I put scripture that I could read right out where everybody could see it.

I mean, it was all over my house.

It was on my mirror.

It was in my car, on my dashboard, so that when I started having those feelings, I could combat them with the word of God.

Good.

You know, the Bible says, beloved, I think on these things, things that are lovely, true of good report.

Fear is none of those things.

So I had to start replacing the thoughts that my mind would give me.

Yeah.

And so I would put scripture everywhere, and then I would do what you said, I would verbalize it, and I would say God.

Which is weird for a lot of times for worship leaders and people in ministry and just people generally, like, we're cool singing to God, but we're not as cool talking to God, and that's why we sing more than we pray.

Okay.

Yep, yep.

Right?

I'm gonna sing to you all the day long, and I can sing to you my feelings, but for me to talk about my feelings.

Nah, I'm good.

I'm straight.

So I started having to talk about my feelings and say, God, I'm having a panic attack as I'm taking off on this plane, because I don't trust that you're gonna keep it safe for me to land and to go home to my kids.

So being honest, like, you're just straight up.

Yeah.

I'm like, yeah.

Because fear comes from a place, so I had to figure out the place.

And then on a very psychological level, I started doing grounding techniques.

And if you're a person that struggles with that, look it up on the Internet.

What are grounding techniques?

Against anxiety and against panic, and you have to engage your senses.

God gave you your senses for a reason.

So when you engage those and you're able to slow the panic down, then it becomes not even manageable.

I mean, it does become manageable, but I don't feel like that God wants us to live a life where, you know, something that he didn't give us is just manageable.

I think he wants us free from it.

Yeah, absolutely.

And he gives us the tools to do it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I love that you said that, like, God's giving us has given to us senses and has, like, paying attention is what I mean, paying attention to the.

To the things.

Our atmosphere, what we're intake.

Like, all of those things.

Like, where are those things coming from?

And identifying it and calling it out into light.

And that's.

That's.

That's a real thing that I think a lot of worship leaders, or even just people in general, struggle with just saying how they actually feel, as if, like, oh, I'm gonna get in trouble, or, oh, I don't know.

If I can.

You know, we.

We're trying to be these super christian, super worship leader.

We're like, we are human, and we are people, and we God and we are sinners.

We all, like, no one, everyone is.

Has fallen short of God's glory and of grace.

And so we have to come to the throne boldly.

And I think exactly what you're saying is you come boldly to the throne and identify everything was going on in the most authentic, real way, and he comes in and he helps you navigate through that.

And I wonder, like, I was thinking about this the other day because I had a slight panic, a lot of my panic attacks that I personally have happened to me while I'm sleeping.

Like, and I'll wake up as if, like, I was a lot.

Like, I.

It didn't feel like a dream.

It felt like I was actually living that.

And so I would wake up with, like, the most horrid feelings.

I had to go check to make sure things are in place, and I find that what.

And this is simple ABC Christian, but what you put in does.

Does affect you.

And it's even just simple things, like things that you read on the Internet.

What Instagram posts are you reading?

We're an election year, so everybody's reading all the things, and everyone's worried about everything.

And there's so much worry, and there's so much fear that literally the whole language, I feel like, of everything right now is fear.

Fear, fear.

Yeah.

And it's like, it's so loud.

Lisa, you know, I.

The other day, it was like, this feels so real that I can't even tell.

Like, is this not, you know, fear is a lie, but I feel like this feels really real and how to set that back in its place.

And again, what.

Exactly what you said.

I, like, I just began just to speak scripture and declare the word of God in my home and over my mind and constantly doing that.

And so that being aware of your senses and knowing where you are at and responding with words definitely does help.

So I agree with that.

Yeah.

Let me say this, too.

I mean, I think as worship leaders and ministers, christians generally, we pray this prayer.

God make me sensitive to the needs of people around me.

Well, you can't pray that prayer and then expect God to not make you sensitive.

That's good, right?

So you're praying God make me sensitive.

Yeah.

And then you think that you can put all this junk in and that it wouldn't affect you.

No, it does.

It affects you.

Listen, there are lots of things for me for.

Just.

For my sensitivity to the spirit of the Lord.

And it's not that it's sin.

Watching a scary movie is not necessarily sin, but I don't ever do it because of where it makes my mind to go.

I don't watch the news.

I read the news so that if it starts going in a place that I.

That I'm like, oh, this, then I can close the book quicker than I can or close my phone quicker than I can adjust the volume on my tv or change the channel.

Right.

And then, and then people will say, well, how are you informed of what's going on?

You know what I need to be informed about?

That God is for me, that he is with me, that he wants good things for me, and that he is a romans 828 God.

That he will take things that are bad and turn them for my good.

So, I mean, that's.

That's what I need to be informed about.

I don't need to know politics.

Yeah.

And I'm probably stepping on toes here.

That's all right.

I can.

Well, let me say this.

I can be informed and not obsessed.

That's good.

There's a difference.

There is a difference.

Like, there are some things, and our minds tend to become obsessive about things that are fearful or things we can't control.

At the end of the day, we cannot control who gets elected president.

You cannot control it.

Your vote contributes, but it is out of your control.

Right.

So control the things that you can control.

Yeah.

And give to God the things that you can't.

And that has been a process to me.

But I prayed when I was very young, I was 13 years old at 1125 Town street in the gym where we had youth service.

And I prayed, God, make me sensitive.

Well, he did.

Yeah.

And now I have to steward the sensitivity.

That's so good that.

And you're so right about that because I think we sometimes get, I'll just put this on me.

I'll get comfortable.

Like, I'm good.

I can watch that.

I can do that.

And then just like what you said.

Well, I remember praying, lord, make me sensitive.

And, lord, break my heart for what breaks your heart, breaks yours.

And then I'm like, I feel broken, like, well, yeah, I.

That's, you know, that's what you prayed for.

But also being so sensitive to everything that you put into your.

Your mind and your heart, what you watch, what you listen to all those things, just like the old him, you know, when you were growing up as a kid, it's like, be careful what you see, be careful what you hear.

Those things have weight to it, because the enemy knows that if he can get us to hear something, then it just goes in our mind and then we think, and it just continues to grow.

And it's so true about being so aware of the things that we need to put in to us.

And I remember I've had to do this personally where I was dealing with so much fear and anxiety because of something.

I obsessed over that before I had to, like, even get ready for worship.

I said, this has to.

This has to be demolished completely because you cannot operate and you can't lead out of a place of anxiety.

I will never lead out of a place of anxiety.

And if you ever.

I'm just going off a tangent here, but if there's a anyone that's listening, you ever feel like, I'm anxious all the time.

You have to leave that anxiety off of the stage and not leave it and pick it back up when you get back on, it means just, like, you have to completely surrender and give it to him and changing your ways and changing the things that you do so that you can honestly, like, lead out of a place of purity.

And I find that anxiety is probably the number one, I think so struggle that a lot of worship leaders and people, moms, parents, especially nowadays, deal with now is crept so much in the church now that it's like, okay, we really should talk about these things.

We really should look into the scripture to see what the scripture is actually saying about our minds and how to do that.

And now here we are.

Millennials are like, well, how do we deal with these things?

Because we never talked about them, and now here we are.

And it's like, we have to learn to operate out of truth, and I want to know how to do that better.

I want to operate out of truth and not just saying I believe.

I believe, but, like, walking out in truth.

And of course, it's just, it's the word of God that is the truth.

He is the truth, and we need to continue to declare those things.

And I wonder, like, what would you say to a worship leader that's either seasoned or new, who is struggling with fear and anxiety?

I mean, you gave some really amazing practical and spiritual applications, but if you are talking to someone right now, then they're like, I'm dealing with fear and anxiety, and I need help with that.

What would you say to them to help them walk into freedom?

The first thing I would say is, if the enemy can keep you silent, he can keep you bound.

The Bible says that you are made an overcomer by the blood of the lamb and by the word of your testimony.

Talk about it.

Good.

Find someone you trust, maybe someone who's been through it and has overcome it, and say, I'm really struggling with this.

How do I deal?

So talk about it.

And secondly, get help.

Get therapy.

The Bible says wisdom is found in a multitude of counsel.

That doesn't mean that you should go talk to people about your issue who don't understand your issue.

Yeah, talk to people about your issue.

Therapy gives you strategy to deal.

Good.

Okay, so get help and be okay to pay for help.

Yeah.

Like, if it's debilitating your life to that point, then you should be okay to pay for it.

If you were sick, you would go to a doctor and get help.

If you had this chronic thing that was nagging you, you would go pay and see a doctor.

Why do we not go to therapy?

What is the stigma in the church about letting someone who deals with the mind, a professional who deals with the mind, help your mind.

Right.

Right.

That is the enemy's tactic to keep you silent so he can keep you bound.

Yep.

And just because I did have breaks from reality doesn't mean I still do.

God redeems all things.

So I would say that, and then I would say, this is not your life.

This feeling, this fear, this panic is not where you're going to live the rest of your life.

Be very careful, because blessing and cursing cannot live in the same mouth.

Do not say my fear, my anxiety, my panic.

Good.

You can say I struggle with panic sometimes, but when you say, oh, my panic, dis.

My panic disorder.

No, baby, you're claiming it.

Don't claim it.

You know, call it for what it is, and it's an attack of the enemy against your mind, your will, your emotions.

It's against your soul.

So call it for what it is, get help and stay in your word.

The Bible has the answer to every need you will ever experience in life.

You just have to dig it out.

Don't think that somebody's going to lay hands on you and pray it off of you.

Pray it off of yourself.

Good.

Right.

But do the spiritual with the practical.

Yeah.

If God wanted us to only live a spirit life, you would be in heaven.

He right.

We live human life.

So there are practical things you have to do.

So do them.

Yeah.

That's so good.

I am.

I absolutely agree with all of that.

And doing actually do those things.

And, you know, just like you're saying, like, don't sit there and just say, well, I got this and these are mine.

They're not yours.

They're not yours.

Disown them.

Come out of agreement, out of that and step into the freedom that God has.

Lisa, would you just pray over everyone that's listening, just over this time, too, and speak and pray.

Freedom and peace and anything else that you feel led to.

Pray over us, please.

Yeah.

Father God, I thank you for, first and foremost, for life and for the opportunity to speak to someone today that is struggling with fear and panic and anxiety and depressive disorder.

God, I thank you that your word is sure and that you do all things well.

It is not by chance or coincidence that they are listening to this today.

It is because they are in covenant with you that they have heard this today.

God, I come against the spirit of the age, the spirit of the enemy.

That makes us want to be fearful, that makes us feel anxious, and, God, that makes us feel like our insides are going to jump out of us at any given moment.

God, I come against that spirit and I call it what it is.

It is a spirit.

And your word says that you have given us the spirit of love.

So I thank you that right now that panic, fear and anxiety are leaving and that your love is overtaking God, that we have power to conquer this and that it is not our story.

God, if it is not done or if it is not good, then you are not done.

And this is not a life sentence for this listener.

God, I just release a sound mind right now.

God, let peace come and enter the space.

Let love come and enter the space.

We speak against nervousness.

Yes, Lord.

Yes.

Anything that is not like you, we say that it can't dwell in us because we are your temple.

God, I thank you for bringing the right people into their lives.

I thank you for giving them courage right now to speak up and say, I need help.

And I thank you that this test, that this struggle will turn into the thing that they overcome.

You will make it part of their testimony, as you have with me.

Yes.

Yes.

That reality is better than it is right now.

Freedom is better than the feeling that they feel right now.

Yeah.

So we thank you for it, Jesus.

In your son's name we say amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Amen.

Yes.

And I really felt something when you were praying over nervousness.

I get a couple questions here and there from new worship leaders.

I'm so nervous.

Or people who have been leading worship for a while.

I'm just so nervous.

And honestly, Lisa, like me launching this podcast has been nothing but nervousness because I just don't know what I do and things I just can't control.

I don't know who's gonna listen to it.

Is it gonna that go here, there?

I just don't know.

But what I do have control over is my obedience.

And I just wanted to speak to anyone who feels nervous about whether it's leading worship, or doing something for God or doing something at all, being a mom or being a parent or whatever that is.

To lean into the obedience.

What is God calling you to do?

Lean into the obedience and fix your eyes on him versus inward.

When you're nervous, you're just thinking about what you can do and your strength versus is what God can do, and his strength and his strength is much better than our strength.

And so just release that.

I just wanted to exhort that upon anyone else and over myself, too, because it's a scary thing to do something new.

It's scary.

You know, even, like, when you recorded your first ep, right?

I mean, you've been singing your entire life, right?

I don't even think I've ever seen you nervous, not one bit.

But, like, you recorded your own solo.

Okay.

Ep.

And you had, I think your sister wrote on that, Chandler Moore wrote on that.

And you had people you love to part of that project, but it's nerve wracking to do.

But I know that you are a woman of God, and you lean on.

Okay, what has God called me to do?

What I'm leaning in my obedience versus how I feel, because feelings are not final and they're not always true.

And so I just love just seeing you, like, operate in that.

And just for reference, we referenced, Lisa has been telling this testimony and things that she's been going through, but she wrote a song called perfect Love out of that.

And basically, that song ties to that testimony.

And it's a beautiful song.

If you haven't listened to it, go check it out on, really any platform that plays music.

Perfect love by Lisa Brunson.

I listened to it again this morning, and I just, like, I was like, I can't cry right now.

I have to record with Lisa.

Like, I can't do it.

But the authenticity that I even felt in the moment, maybe you felt in the moment when you're recording this of, like, who something hit.

And there is truth here.

Fear is a lie, and I can trust you.

And you kept saying that.

You kept saying, I trust you.

And I just.

I know that a lot of people needed to hear your testimony and what's going on or what was going on and how you are continuing to overcome.

Because although you have had a lot of breakthrough in your anxiety attacks and panic attacks, I should say you still probably go through some things, but you have a process for it.

You know how to get them in its place, and you have more of an awareness versus don't know what to do.

And so I just.

I love, love, love your heart and what you do, you lead so passionately every time that it gets me going.

Like, I remember you hurt your back when I'm years ago at world harvest, and I know it killed you to not be able to jump around, and you did anyways.

You're like, I just did it because I'm like, I gotta give God my all.

Like, he deserves it all.

Yeah.

And I remember you going through seasons of pain in your back, and, I mean, you lead with keys mostly, and sometimes, and you're standing and you're jumping and you're doing all these things, but, like, nothing hindered your worship and praise, and God is continually moving in your life.

And I'm just so thankful.

Thank you for being a representation of authenticity on stage and offstage.

I feel like you do a really good job with that.

And I think everywhere that you travel and go to all the clips that I see, I know people are so blessed by you and your ministry and your husband.

Your husband's so amazing.

I just love Jermaine.

You guys had.

I mean, I literally, like, I was thinking.

I was like, I need to have both of them back on because I think we would have a time and we probably would need an hour and a half, and I'd be okay with that.

But Jermaine is a preacher, and he's got revelation like no other.

And even if he doesn't know you, he will give you the word of the Lord.

Yes.

He will give you the word of the Lord, and it will be spot on, 100%.

Yes.

So we'll definitely have to do that with both of you guys because you guys have so much wealth and revelation, and you've been through so much in your family, and you've done so many things.

And I'm just.

Anyways, I'm just so thankful to be able to rub shoulders next to you guys and be in relationship with you.

If you guys ever want to get in contact with Lisa or follow her, she travels a lot with her and her husband and her songs and all the things, please just follow her on Instagram.

She's amazing.

She's accessible, she's down to earth, and she will talk to anybody.

And so please reach out to her if you, maybe not everybody, but some people, maybe background check you first.

But Lisa, thank you so much for being here today on the pod and sharing your testimony.

And I know it's going to bless so many people.

I know I'm going to go back and listen to this again because it is something that I believe that not just the church, but everyone needs to hear of how to overcome and to identify the fear and to call it out and to put it back in its place where it belongs.

So thank you so much for your vulnerability and your authenticity here.

Thank you.

I loved every minute of it.

And thankful to be a part and thankful that it's an opportunity to share what God has done in my life.

You know, and it's the old adage, if he did it for me, he can do it for you.

Yes, ma'am.

Thank you.

Amen to that.

Absolutely.

Well, thank you so much, everyone, for joining us on worship leader Pod.

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