This is Barbecue Nation After Hours.

The conversation that took place after the show ended.

Hey, everybody, it's jt.

And this is a special version of Barbecue Nation.

It is brought to you in part by Painted Hills Natural Beef.

Beef you can be proud to serve your family and friends.

That's Painted Hills Natural Beef, everybody.

Welcome to After Hours here on Barbecue Nation.

I'm jt.

Today we've got my co host eating a ham sandwich.

What is her name?

Oh, Leanne Whippen, as we affectionately call her.

Broken Screen.

And we've got Dr. Ray, Dr. Barbecue Ray Lampy with us today.

Ray, how many books have you written?

I was joking in the show.

I said, like, 400 or something, but it's only nine.

It's only nine.

Only nine.

Oh, my God.

Theory.

I'm working on number 10, but I'm really not working on it very hard.

The industry's changed, you know, I was lucky to get in when.

And you can ask any legit cookbook author.

We just get paid pretty well for this.

I had a, you know, I'll tell you where my starts.

I'm looking around for something to do and.

And I was writing a column for Dave DeWitt for Fiery Foods magazine.

And Dave called me one day and said, hey, you know, you're pretty good at this writing stuff.

And I really had no idea that I.

To this day, I can't type.

And I've written nine books.

But he said, hey, I've got an opportunity to write a barbecue book.

And they think they want you to do three.

And I can't do it because I'm under contract for.

He was writing the Spicy Food Lovers Bible, which was a big deal.

And I said, sure, I'll give that a try.

Well, it was a good paying thing.

So I did the first one.

They liked what I did.

I wrote three for them, people.

And then my agent, this is probably 2007 or so, and I have a nice agent, a good literary agent in New York.

And he said, well, you know, there's Boyders.

There's so many barbecue books out there that it's probably not good to try to write another one.

So.

But we need to find something else for you because you're kind of good at this and you're on a roll.

They know you now and, you know, you turn them in on time, which apparently is a big deal.

Like turning the book in on time.

Yeah, it's a big deal.

Yeah, it is.

I finally do it.

And so he said, well, I said, what else do you do?

And I said, well, how about tailgating?

And he said, well, I don't know, let me see.

We asked the publisher, they said well, you know, boy, it'd be nice if you had a partner like the NFL or something.

So he cold called the NFL and they said yes, and I wrote the NFL book and, and then from there I would, by then, you know, after four books, I kind of knew how to write cookbooks.

So they gave me ideas to, you know, would say, hey, what about the book about ribs, chops and steaks and wings?

Or what about the Beginner's Guide to Barbecue?

And, and so I was really lucky along the way and.

But every one of those paid pretty well.

Well, the industry has changed so much.

The self publishing, publishing on demand, the, the influx of all the influencers that really want to write books so bad that they will do it for pretty much no money.

Right.

And, and I, you know, I'm just priced out of that.

I've had a good career at that.

So it's really hard right now.

I'll probably do one more just to say I did 10, but it's just not a very, you know, unfortunately for me, this is what I do for a living and this is how I pay my bills and I compete with a lot of people who, that's not, they have another job or the family has another job, right.

Or something and they, they write books for no money and the market's flooded with them and it's pretty hard to do for me, I, I just don't have much interest in it.

So it's really been, I've seen a whole, you know, boy, I sound like the guy telling everybody to get off their lawn on all these subjects.

But you hang around long enough, it's kind of what it becomes.

Well, it's okay because I can tell you from sitting in this chair for this is the seventh year of this show and we've done pretty well with it and all that.

But I interview a lot of authors and because I find them interesting and I want to know their backgrounds and stuff and I'll tell you, I'm not going to mention any names, but I have interviewed out of all these years, probably three that I knew that they had no idea what they were really doing on a barbecue.

They wrote a book.

It was a good looking book, nice pictures, simple recipes like that.

But when you actually talk to them about the cooking aspect of it, they, you know, we're here and they were way back there, so.

And I don't want to insult anybody, nor do I want to embarrass them.

So that's why I'm not saying it.

But it's pretty easy to tell when I.

When I talk to you, for example.

Right.

Because you been on the show now, I don't know, four or five times over the years, you always get right to it, and you get great explanations, and then you say, and if you don't do it this way, this can happen, and you don't want this to happen.

Okay?

And that's what a good author does, explains it to them.

So there you go.

I know what you're talking about, because you can.

They can say, well, I've got 15 or 20,000 followers on Instagram, I should write a book.

You know, you're 22 years old and you.

Maybe you're barely out of college and you haven't even lived yet.

I think, Brian, I'm getting off track here, so I'll shut up in a second.

But one thing that makes good authors is life experiences.

Absolutely.

You know, when I first.

I got my book to my deal to write this first book, and.

And they liked it and they wanted me to write two more.

And I was talking to my agent and I was like, I'm really surprised at this.

Why me?

Why would they want me to write all these books?

And he said, you're an expert on the subject.

And I really hadn't thought about it, but I was 45 years old and I'd been doing it since I was 25, and I was still obsessed in the middle of the whole passion of the thing, and I was an expert on it, and I didn't really think about it.

You know, I also had the ability to write.

They told me in my word.

So, like, reading my book.

Sounds like you're talking to me.

Which is a gift that I never knew I had, and I.

Not something I don't think you can acquire.

So between those two things, I was able to write books.

I never.

I never crossed my mind that that was where I was.

Well, we're going to get Leanne a cookbook here one of these days.

Yeah.

Since it doesn't pay.

So that's how I roll.

That's.

That's how you roll.

Perfect gig for you.

Ray.

Your website says about your.

About the restaurant, it says Modern American Barbecue.

So when you say modern American, I'm just going to get the phraseology down here.

Are you talking about barbecue skills and menus and recipes and that.

That you've acquired, say, since the 70s versus going back to the caveman era or What?

How did that come about?

I found it really fascinating.

I liked it, but I was just like, modern barbecue.

I like that.

Yeah, people don't talk about me and modern very often, but what it was was, you know, the people that own the restaurants, I'm a partner on that restaurant, but they've got a half dozen restaurants total.

And we, they, you know, they don't just do this on the fly.

When we decided we were going to do this, we went and ate in our normal travels, but also we made specific trips to go see what was going on out there in barbecue restaurants.

And we ran into these, this new wave of restaurants.

Q39.

Poor Rob just passed, but he broke a lot of ground in Kansas City because Rob was a chef.

He was a Hilton chef when I met him, and he was doing the KCBS thing and then he switched.

He quit his job and opened 239.

Well, again, he was a legit Hilton chef when he did that.

Versus a barbecue guy that doesn't really know how to run a restaurant.

And he changed everything.

It was really a nice place with nice side dishes and, and everything came out perfect and nicely plated and good service.

And we really liked that.

And we found more restaurants like that around the country.

And it's really how it struck us as this was modern barbecue.

It was good barbecue, but served in a modern way at a nice place.

You get a fancy cocktail, you get some dessert, you get served.

We set our restaurant up so when you walk in, there's a block with a guy cutting meat right there.

So it looks like you're about to get in line and order.

But that's not what happens.

You go sit down and we bring you a nice glass of whiskey and, and a nice server takes care of you and a comfy chair.

So that's what we thought of.

There was a place called Green Bench in Chicago.

Leanne was one of the people that originally did that, her Q restaurant, which unfortunately, it didn't work out long term for her.

But when it was happening, it was a groundbreaking thing.

It was in a high rent district of Chicago in a fancy restaurant.

And Leanne cooking barbecue.

That was the first restaurant where she put competition cooked ribs on the menu at jacked up price.

And it was your number one menu item, right?

Yep.

We had house ribs and then we did the competition ribs at an exorbitant price.

And we'd sell out of the competition ribs.

They had the.

She had this little cart.

If you bought a whole pork shoulder and threw it out there and leanne to come and break it down for you for a few hundred dollars.

So.

But I mean to me that's, you know, that's what heck, you know, it's a secret.

Maybe you may not know this.

The whole point of that was to make money.

So yeah, what the heck.

Why would you make a little bit of money when you make a lot?

So we saw restaurants like that and it was a huge influence on us that that's how you could do it.

So to me it's still barbecue is barbecue.

You don't change the barbecue.

You know, the roots of what it is is the same.

And that's what we learned our lesson.

We've, if anything, well, that's the dumb and down part.

But, but that was really.

And the restaurant, you know, we got a really nice restaurant.

They spent a lot of money on it and it's pretty cool looking but it still feels like a barbecue restaurant.

We had some barbecue restaurants, a couple of them up here that Covid killed.

They.

And it was just by sheer bad timing, you know, that they.

A guy had.

One guy in particular had spent some time in Texas.

He'd gone to Texas A M's, you know, brisket class and all that kind of stuff.

And he was, he was very much into it, but he spent a bunch of money for build outs and stuff on restaurant and as you know, you know those are usually leasehold improvements if you leave, so you don't get to take them with you.

But you know, his menu was fine.

It wasn't anything super special, but it was fine.

His food was fine, but he just didn't make it.

And I think that, I think that once we get by all this Covid stuff, especially up north where I live, you guys in Florida have taken a different perspective on how to deal with these things.

And I've talked frequently with my wife about moving to Florida, you know, but, but the point is you're, you're very pro business down there.

You like to see things happen and you've got good, good barbecue people like yourself and Leanne.

So, you know, things are creative and you can do that up here.

It's, you know, when you're in the tundra, you both lived in Chicago, you know what it's like, the difference there.

It works.

Well, you're going to have to come here and we'll go to Ray's place because it's an excellent restaurant and it's, it's really beautiful.

So I'm planning on it, I'm planning on.

What'S the.

When you're, you're in the restaurant business.

And I know I asked Leanne this question when she was a guest on the show and not my co host, but what's the toughest thing or the worst thing about owning your own restaurant?

Ray?

I don't really know because I've been really blessed on this project.

I've avoided the restaurant business my whole life.

There were many opportunities, many times when that was the obvious thing for me to do, and I always resisted it because I just knew it was so high risk, especially barbecue restaurants in the past.

These days, barbecue restaurants, they seem to hang around pretty good because there's, you know, there's room for.

We used to talk about how could there be 50 Chinese restaurants in this town or only one barbecue restaurant, you know, there's room for more.

But I avoided it heavily.

The only rest other barbecue restaurant I've ever worked for before this one is Justin Timberlake's restaurant in New York.

I got a call back from a guy one day and said he wanted to.

They'd open, they were open and there was a mess and they didn't know what to do because they had a line out the door because Justin, his name was on it and they called me and I went up there and I helped them.

But that was really as a consultant and more.

Much like what I do with this restaurant, I'm not there all the time.

You know, I'm just the face.

But trust me, I keep an eye on things.

This one has got my name on it, so I keep an eye on it.

I'm there.

Sure.

I don't go there and work every day.

And there's other people that know how to run restaurants that do run it day to day.

So I'm really lucky in that regard.

So, you know, I.

My goal always was to not be in the restaurant business.

And if I was going to do it with some really good people to help run it, and that's where I am.

Good for you, Leanne.

You want to jump in here on anything.

Well, I think he does know, even though he might not be in the operations itself, but it's the people, you see the turnaround and the frustrations and, and Ray, you're aware of that because you do work with the pitmasters that are there and you see the turnover and it's frustrating, so.

Well, you know, I always say that, but I am five years into this project, so, yeah, I may not have been a very experienced restaurant guy when I started, but I have been around it for five years.

So And I mean I, I honestly care, you know, I say that yes, it's someone else's, they actually own the building and, and they're responsible for the day to day running it.

But don't think I don't care and put my two cents in and sure, you know, know what's going on.

That's because your face is on the side of the building.

And in the hallway and on the statue and on the mug.

On the mugs.

Just, just as, just as long as it's not in the bathroom.

Yeah, I don't think so.

Yeah, yeah, okay.

I'm aware of.

Okay.

I say that all the time that I'm not a restaurant guy, but I've been self employed since I was 18 years old.

I catch on pretty quick.

And I know how to make stuff work, whether it be the trucking business or the food truck business or cookbooking or restaurants.

Sure, let's have some fun here.

Do you remember the worst place you ever cooked, Ray?

Oh my God.

There's been some bad ones for sure.

I once did a cooking class in a gravel, nasty, dirty gravel parking lot in Detroit with like we had, we had to keep fighting off the homeless guys and criminals and stuff that were trying to come in and we had all our cookers across, but there was a brewery there that was the attraction to us.

So we did it right there and it was, I mean we were filthy when we got done and, and hungover and, and had chased away a whole lot of homeless guys.

So I'd say that might have been it.

That could be it.

If we put your life and life skills to music, what music would it be?

Maybe Aqua Lung.

You know that Ray and I are close to the same age.

If you're talking about Jethro Tol there.

There you go.

Well, one of the.

So when we bought our giant smoker and so we want to give it a name and we're bouncing names around and I suggested Cross Eyed Mary.

I thought that was name, you know, an old Jezero tall song.

And, and they said well, was she a prostitute?

And I said, ah, you know, yeah, I think she was.

We better not use that name.

Leanne.

Well, I don't know if I remember asking.

You would with your life and your skills and what you're doing, what music, what music would be, you know that.

That question you ask everyone stumps.

Everyone raised the first one that's kind of answered that question because I find it kind of.

Well, here's, you know, you just don't know shit up on the fly.

Yeah, I didn't really think that through.

I just threw something out there.

Well, he got.

He got a right answer, though.

He's talking about Jethro Tull, you know, started out in this world, in this business as a rock and roll DJ in Los Angeles when I was 18.

So, I mean, you're talking Jethro tell Bob Seeger, you know, Motor City Madman and all those guys.

You know, I'm thinking Leanne.

I'm thinking some Barry Manilow for her.

Oh, my God, no.

How about abba?

No, no.

I'm a little bit of a metal head, so none of that's going to fall into play.

Okay.

All right, all right, we'll move on.

Ray, would you describe yourself as.

Corn.

Fed or grass fed?

I'm corn fed, definitely.

So I'm clearly corn fed.

Yeah, me too.

Oh, you are not.

I am.

You're about as big as a button.

Come on.

She eats, though.

She does eat, I'll give her that.

But she doesn't seem to keep it, you know.

Well, no, I. I just.

It.

It's.

I don't eat a lot all the time.

I'm selective.

You just keep eating, though.

I mean, little bits and just keep eating.

Yeah, I'm.

I'm one of those people.

Yeah, you're a grazer.

Except when I go out to eat at a restaurant, it's game on.

There you go.

Okay.

I was gonna say, if you're a grazer, then you're definitely grass fed.

Okay, so how about that?

We'll swing back to this one.

The biggest change that you think, Ray, that should be made in competition barbecue.

Oh, it's kind of too late.

Hogs out of the barn or whatever that saying is.

You can't change it now.

The guys have invested in these trailers where they are sitting up in there cooking their barbecue and you know, and they.

The.

You can't stop them from buying that meat.

They're not doing anything wrong.

I was fussing one day about the.

The money muscle.

You know, how that was just such a big deal.

And Darren Worth said to me, well, you're the one that taught me how to do it.

So, you know, we were.

Now we.

I was butterfly in a pork butt and cutting the end off, you know, a few muscles after.

After it was cooked.

We didn't take it to the level we did.

We do now.

I took this week, I cut them off at my house on Wednesday and trimmed them up, and they were beautiful little pork roasts, you know, so it kind of got it Swung a little further away than what I would have anticipated.

But I don't think there's much you can do about it now.

I mean, the good news is people, people somehow understand that there's competition barbecue and then there's real barbecue and.

Right.

It's just too bad to me, I mean, it'd be nice if we could have all had thing because I tend to think that there's a whole lot of really good competition barbecue cooks that don't quite understand what real barbecue is.

Okay.

Boxers are briefs.

Right.

I wear them like half boxer brief loots.

Makes the.

There you go.

Made out of brief material, but they're kind of shaped like boxers.

Yeah, they're boxers.

I'm going to say boxers.

Yeah, yeah.

You or me?

Yeah, I'm a thong guy.

Your thong guy.

Doing some serious.

My sister in law always says doing some serious flossing when they're wearing a thong.

Yeah.

Well, this is for you, Ray.

Dire Straits or Justin Timberlake?

It was Justin Bieber, but I threw Timberlake in there.

Yeah, well, I probably listen to more Dire Straits in my life, but JT's my man.

There you go, There you go, There you go.

Okay, what is the worst.

We're almost done here.

What.

What's the worst concert that you ever attended?

Do you remember most of my bad ones?

I don't remember them.

So.

Yeah, it was Ted Nugent in the, in the 70s and was the first time I tried mescaline.

Oh yeah?

Yeah, it didn't go that well.

Yeah, yeah, I did.

Wasn't the first concert, but we did Doobie Brothers, Dave Mason and Blue Oyster Cult in Santa Barbara.

Oh, I did.

Yeah.

I went to Blue Oyster Cult.

Yeah.

And this guy hauled me up from school.

I. I didn't have a car, so came in from la, went up there, he had this cooler and I remember like the first five songs of Dave Mason and after that I don't.

I.

Next thing I know we were back in the apartment building in la.

So there you go.

I mean it was.

Those were fun time.

It was a different time.

It was a different.

How much barbecue do you eat on a regular basis?

I know Leanne eats constantly all day long, but, you know.

How much do you eat, Ray?

Pretty much.

I.

You know, at the restaurant, if I'm hungry, I mean, I gotta be trying stuff.

I'm always wanting to test things and.

And I have to host a lot of people that come into town, either old friends or, you know, writers or all kinds of stuff.

So.

Yeah, quite a bit.

What I find myself doing at our restaurant anyway, I've lost the passion to get to town and find the local, best barbecue restaurant.

I. I've lost that passion.

We get to town now, I'm just not that interested.

But.

But at our restaurant, what I'll do is.

So I'll eat the turkey and ribs like a couple of times, and maybe I'll have a burger and stay away from the brisket.

So the next week, kind of got a taste for the brisket.

I'll have once or twice.

And so I kind of, you know, I try to.

Instead of eating everything, you know, like a nice spread every time, which I could.

Then I'd get tired of everything.

So I can't find myself.

Our burger is really good too.

So I have the burger if nobody's looking.

Okay.

I'm gonna make Leanne drive me over there.

When I come to town, visit you, we will do that last thing.

Any advice you would give people that are just starting, and this doesn't even have to be for competition people.

I'm just saying, people that, you know, they.

They've been to other people's homes, they've been to barbecue restaurants, Ray.

Whatever.

They like it.

They're thinking about getting a grill.

They're thinking about, you know, throwing their hat in the ring a little bit on the.

On the deck or the back porch.

What would you tell them?

Advice.

We're just going to cook at home.

The mistake I see guys making all the time is they just watch videos for a month.

You know, I used to talk to a guy, he just bought his new grill, but he's going to wait till next month to cook on it because he's going to watch all these videos and read everything.

It's like, why don't you just buy some meat and throw it on there and see what happens?

You know, you might learn something that way as opposed to trying to watch every video.

And then they get confused because they find 20 different ways to cook a brisket.

And I don't really don't know what to do.

And I think that's a mistake.

Just buy, you know, don't buy anything too expensive.

Buy some chicken thighs or pork chops and cook them.

See what happens.

Absolutely.

That's the big mistake people make.

Competition guys.

Well, I think it's.

Most of them are pretty much on it these days.

But I met some guys over the weekend getting ready to get started, and I told them, find one of the guys that's winning and take their class and do that because it's Just the learning from the ground up would cost you a lot of money, and it's not going to be that fun, and you're probably going to lose interest before you get good at it.

So unfortunately, there, it's the opposite answer.

I say, you know, spend the money, take somebody's good class.

Sure.

And, you know, unfortunately, you got to conform and do what everybody else is doing.

Nope, you got to do that.

Ray, thank you so much.

It's always a pleasure to talk to you and have you on the show and, and I. I'm got great faith that you're keeping an eye on Leanne for me down there in Florida.

Oh, yeah, I'm keeping an eye on him.

I feel, I must say.

Time flew.

That was a.

That was a great interview, Ray.

Thank you.

My pleasure.

Thanks for having me, you guys, I can tell you, luckily, Leanne and I are both a little older and we can't quite hit it like we used to.

I get that.

I get that.

When I quit drinking, for the most part, the value of scotch went right in the toilet.

We'll be back next week with another edition of After Hours.

Again, I want to thank Ray Lampe and my co partner here, Leanne Whippen, for being with us today.

And remember our motto again, turn it, don't burn it.

It.

Get out there and cook something and have some fun, people.

Talk to you later.