Worlds Collide is a podcast where I talk to people who moved abroad

>> Viktoria: Hey, and welcome to a new episode of Worlds Collide, the podcast where I talk to people who moved abroad. I guess this podcast is very interesting for, anybody who was thinking of moving abroad or, and want to hear about other people's experiences. But also of course it's super interesting for everyone who already moved somewhere else and just as curious if people are making the same or similar experiences as they do. And today is, another new or another first. And my guess is Ian, he moved to Greece. And I'm just wondering right now, I'LIKE why wasn't there another episode of Moving to Greece before? I guess maybe Greece is not on the top 10 of or it's not on the top list of people to move to and we talk about this a little bit. But before I let you listen to the whole interview with Ian, I just wanted to let you know that there are two ways how you could support this podcast. The one is, the first is you could give the podcast a five star rating wherever you listen to it. Or if you are, listening on Apple podcast and you feel like it, you could even just write a sentence why you like it so much. That would be lovely. And then the other way is you could buy me a cup of coffee. You could go on the link in the show notes, buy me a coffee. Worlds collideod. and yeah, buy me a cup of coffee. Or you can also buy me just half a cup of coffee. You can just do whatever you like. But I appreciate your support so much. It makes me super happy and makes me feel really evaluated, you know. But I also just love that you are listening to the podcast as well. All right, anyway, that was enough of my intro. And I let you listen to Ian story of moving to Greece. And yeah, he has a couple of really crazy stories. So check it out. Here it is.

>> Viktoria: My guest today is Ian. How are you today?

>> Ian: Hey, Viktoria. I'm good. it's like 6:30 at night. We're settling in, and it's been a fantastically beautiful day, so we're very lucky and I feel great about it.

>> Viktoria: All right, so where are you?

>> Ian: I am in a, small, small village about two hours north of Athens. It's called Arachovbah, but we live even higher up, in a little part called Livvadi, which is just the valley above the village of Arahjoba.

Why are you in Greece? Like why did you choose to Move there

>> Viktoria: Okay, so you're in Greece.

>> Ian: I am, yeah.

>> Viktoria: So, and why are you in Greece? Like why did you choose to Move there.

>> Ian: Oh, great. I don't know if we ever have a clear answer to that. My, My wife is originally from here. She's half British, half Greek. So she spent a decent amount of time growing up in. In this area. why we live here now is a long back and forth relationship with this place kind of story. And I started coming here once I met her. Right. And we got trapped here for Covid, fell in love with the mountains. And eventually, you know, most recently we found out we were having a baby.

>> Viktoria: Congratulations. Cute.

>> Ian: Thank you. Very exciting. But we were just talking about the kind of life we wanted to give the baby. And at the time we were living in our van actually in Greece.

>> Viktoria: oay.

>> Ian: So we were traveling and wandering. We played with the idea of moving back to the U.S. living in Spain, living in the UK, whatever. And got back to this point where we were like we know this place really well. and we want to give the kid a good life in the mountains with good food and good people. And naturally we ended up here.

>> Viktoria: Okay. And so it sounds like. Is it very isolating where you are? It just sounds like you're somewhere the mountains all by yourself. No, Am Iime.

>> Ian: Sometimes it really feels like that. Ah. Just because we. The village that's down below. Ah, Raov is. They call it like the Mkon. No. So the winter because we have a ski resort up here. so there's a lot of people that pass through just because we're close to Athens. But in the summer there's no one. for the most part of the year there's not that many people. And it is pretty isolating for sure. but we kind of like that.

>> Viktoria: okay. And so how long have you been there now?

>> Ian: It's been on and off for the past like four years. And we just moved back to did this region, to stay maybe four months ago.

>> Viktoria: Okay. And did it feel different then?

>> Ian: It did, yeah. Because we knew what we were moving for. You just kind of like look at even the same place. You look at it through a different lens of like, I wonder what it's going to be like to take our baby to that coffee shop or like hike that mountain with a baby strapped to me.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, I mean, of course. And if you have like a tiny person with you, then it's also like a lot different, but also like the feeling of just visiting versus being there for good.

>> Ian: Yeah. it's not the first time that we thought we were going Toa be here for good. That, is like a much more, up and down type story. yeah, but so we've looked at the place through those eyes a little bit before, and in terms of visiting versus full time, we're still not like, oh, we'll be here forever. We still go back and forth all the time.

>> Viktoria: and do you speak Greek?

>> Ian: A little bit. I've been learning for a while, but there's this like two year gap where we lived in Alaska and I wasn't speaking any Greek and now I'm back here and I'm, hopefully starting lessons again.

>> Viktoria: Right, okay. And can you all do this in the little village or would this be online?

>> Ian: This is through a friend who lives down in the village proper. where there's probably the village proper, there's probably 3,000, 5,000 people.

>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.

>> Ian: So there. I can do it.

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

Everything I knew about Greece before I came here was very stereotypical

would have, would you have picked Greece if, you wouldn't have the connection to your wife? I mean, if she wouldn't be half Greek.

>> Ian: Everything I knew about Greece before I came here was probably the very stereotypical like, Pictures of like, Mykonos and Santorini. Beautiful white houses.

>> Viktoria: Yes, exactly.

>> Ian: And where we live is nothing like that. Beautiful. It's gorgeous. I love it. but it is not that at all, so. And I probably could have named like two Greek foods maybe, and I maybe would have been right. so proably not.

>> Viktoria: Probably not. So how is the place where you live then? Because you said it's not like the white houses.

>> Ian: Yeah, we live in this very, like, we live in a fully stone house. where they have.

>> Viktoria: It looks.

>> Ian: It s like a.

>> Viktoria: The walls look really nice. That what I see from you. Behind you.

>> Ian: Yeah. And the. So there's a lot of stone houses. There's a lot of tiny falling down stone huts that shepherds still use. And, because of the ski center and the tourism, there are some like, really nice fancy houses around here. But it's just like a tiny little mountain village. it's very quaint and nothing like striking like the white of the Santorini houses.

>> Viktoria: Right. It does it also feel a little bit, I mean, obviously older, but also, like time stood still a little bit.

>> Ian: That's a beautiful way to think about it. In some parts, yes, without a doubt. in some other parts, it feels very modern and modernizing. it's, very much like a vacation area. Holiday homes. And when. So they started building a while ago and when the recession hit, everyone lost everything. Had to stop. And because of that, now there's still, like, hundreds of just houses that they started. There's, like, foundations and the skeleton to house, but they never finish them. So it's kind of. You get this in between of, like, abandoned and ultra rich and wealthy.

>> Viktoria: okay, so it's like a very crass contrast.

>> Ian: Contrast, yeah, absolutely. there's spots. They tried to build a casino here once, and that didn't go over well, and now it's, like, totally abandoned. There's a weird ye. Harsh difference.

>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.

Do you also have family close by where you live in Greece

And, the area where you are, do you also have family close by?

>> Ian: We have, I think, in this village. And what it sounds like most Greek villages, is that everyone is kind of, like, somehow related. Like, my partner has, She's like, yeah, that person's like, my cousin, I think, or they're my second cousin. Or they're my, like, cousin's sister's dogs owner or something. So we have family, definitely. Yeah.

>> Viktoria: So you didn't move to a place where you were all by yourself kind of?

>> Ian: No. I think in a way we're all by ourself because of our mindset and just who we are. but, yes, there's, like, family connection. There are people. And that is one of the reasons that we chose to come back here is because we knew there were people that would, like, show up at the door when we don't ask and give us food when we have a baby.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, no, that is definitely helpful. And, in terms of you, did you, make friends already? Because, I mean, four months's not a long time, really, but it can t feel long. I guess when you're lonely.

>> Ian: It can feel really long. Luckily, because we've been in and out of this place for so long and spending a good amount of time here, there are some people that I would call friends. Yes. the difficult part is, like, our best friend here, the person who I feel the most connected to doesn't speak any English. And. Okay, so my level of Greek and how we know him and how I interact with him is way more about the nonverrbals and the, like, way of being, which is really interesting to me because we'we don't get to dive into deep conversation, and it's all very simple. yeah.

>> Viktoria: So how you do it, like, what is your, conversation about? Like, oh, this food is really tasty. Or like, oh, look at this. It'so beautiful.

>> Ian: Yeah, right? I like to think my GRE my Greek is I'll give myself some credit. Is a little bit better than that. But it is always just like, how's it going? Good. It's good. Great. You had to go to Athens. Yep. Went to Athens. that sucks. Yeah, that does suck. S. Just like, so much of that kind of little.

>> Viktoria: It's more like a feeling that you have a connection. Yeah.

>> Ian: Yeah, absolutely. And we ride bikes together. We go to the mountain together. And those are the kinds of things that are important to me. which is why it makes him a very easy friend.

>> Viktoria: Uh-huh. And for your wife, is it, similar that she also made friends or hang, out with family all the time?

>> Ian: No. for her, it's a lot easier because she speaks fluent Greek.

>> Viktoria: Yeah. Okay.

>> Ian: So she gets to actually have the conversations, like, with this guy that I'm referencing.

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Ian: She can talk to him and have really meaningful and insightful questions, and she'll turn to me and translate, and I'll be like, huh? Whoa. That's what you were talking about? I thought I followed some of it, but I didn't.

>> Viktoria: All right, so she also is your'translator? Many times.

>> Ian: Yeah. Which iseah. both a blessing and a curse. Right. Like, my Greek would probably be way better if I didn't have that. but also, sometimes I don't want to deal with Greek bureaucracy, and I can't.

>> Viktoria: Right. And you can just, like, whatever, scoot it over to her.

>> Ian: Kind of. Yeah. It's one of those, like. I'm sorry. I really wish I could do this. I do. I promise. I can't.

>> Viktoria: Well, next time when we see something in English, I will do all the work.

>> Ian: Yeah. When we lived in the U.S. it was an immediate switch of, like, we just got done living in Greece. You're doing every phone call, every, like, utility bill you're doing. Don't think you're getting out of anything.

>> Viktoria: Yeah. Like, oh, 100%. Everything is yours.

>> Ian: Yeah.

What stands out to you about Nicaragua most? Food and way of life

>> Viktoria: and, what do you like most? Or, like, when you, went there the first time, like, what was the thing that you appreciated the most?

>> Ian: I mean, I think one of the most obvious things is the food. But, the true answer, I think, is, like. And what still stands out to me is very much the way of life. people just. They have this, like, this way of just living very slowly and not feeling rushed about anything in the world, until they're in a car and they freak out and drive like crazy. People.

>> Viktoria: Oay they lit all the acre out.

>> Ian: Yeah. But for the most part, it's just so relaxed. Everyone cares about each other and everyone is so kind and welcoming and like, I think they have priorities that line up with me and mine way more than somewhere like America.

Can you talk more about the food in Greece that sticks out to you

>> Viktoria: Can you talk more about the food maybe just because you said it sticks out to you the most. And for me it's only just meat. And I think of gref. Food is only meat.

>> Ian: Yeah. well, my wife and I are mostly vegetarian actually and we eat a lot of not a lot, but we eat some meat. Right. Because we live here and because it is so good. But like the summers of Yemista, like rice stuffed tomatoes with baked potatoes on the side and so much feta and fresh salads with just like giant chunks of tomato and cucumber and onion and feta and the best olive oil you could ever imagine. All of these dishes that are I think actually the like secret food of Greasee in a way because people think of the meat, they think of like grilled sheep. Right. Having like lamb and goat and a lot of different meat dishes, which are incredible.

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Ian: So good. But I actually think the vegetarian stuff is. This slides under the radar.

>> Viktoria: Right. I remember like I had a ah, roommate from Greek or like he's German, but like his family, his roots are Greek. And like we always joked about the olive oil because like he talked about olive oil all day long. You when like for his birthday, just give him like 2 gallons of olive oil. He'll be happy. I don't know.

>> Ian: that's exactly what we just got for Christmas was probably around 2 or 3 gallons of O of that olive oil.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, it's olive oil.

>> Ian: Yeah. It's like Have you ever seen my Big Fat Greek Wedding?

>> Viktoria: M. It is a long time ago though.

>> Ian: I don't remember much, but it's stupidly accurate to the way people live. And they talk about putting Windex on it. but in reality I think it's a joke about olive oil.

>> Viktoria: Oh yeah. I mean it is good. So yeah. and in terms of feeling, more welcoming, can you describe that a little bit?

>> Ian: Yeah. Everyone wants to actually know how you are and how you're doing. And they, even if they don't speak that much English, they try because they want to like talk to you and make you feel at home to some way you perform. And Greece is also really, really well known for being invited in by strangers.

>> Viktoria: Oh, okay.

>> Ian: Brought in. we were on a. We did like a short overnight viiking trip and stayed at this One place in the. The ladies who take care of the little church that we were sleeping outside of, were coming to us and bringing cookies, and they brought a couple of beers, and, like, they just had this, like, loving care. Like, we want to be hospitable to you about them. And you find that everywhere, all across Greece, I think.

>> Viktoria: Uh-huh. Nice. But, okay, so that's just being me.

There's two stories about Greek bureaucracy that I would share on this podcast

I also want to bring out the reputation of Greek, like, being corrupt and bureaucracy. Ah. So did you had to, like, experience anything bad in that way in that corner?

>> Ian: Yeah, it's super real. There's two stories that I would share on that. So, like, one of them, we bought a house. And all of the paperwork. This was at the beginning of last year. all the paperwork was super legit. A lawyer had gone over it. Everything went through. the house itself is in, like, a weird place. it's very, very isolated, and. But we loved that, of course. and then one day, the cops showed up on my doorstep, and we're in the middle of the woods. Right.

>> Viktoria: Okay.

>> Ian: I never see anyone. I had just dropped my wife at the airport in Athens. Two hours away. driven back, got home, sat down, eateating dinner, and the cops show, and they're yelling at me in Greek. There's this other lady with them yelling at me in Greek. My Greek's not that good, especially when I'm, like, super stressed.

>> Ian: Uh-huh.

>> Viktoria: I imagine.

>> Ian: Yeah. So I get my wife on the phone, and she's about to board her plane to go visit some friends in the Netherlands. And essentially, she's like, they're telling you, you can't be there. that this is forest service land. You're not allowed to live here. This house is illegal. all of this stuff that we.

>> Viktoria: Were just likeh, oh, God.

>> Ian: That this had been, like. We knew there was, like, some level of a dispute, but had been told it was taken care of by a lawyer.

>> Viktoria: Oh, my God.

>> Ian: For this, like, group of people that have houses out there. And, they let me drive behind them to the police station because we have a dog, right? So I was like, we can't leave the dog behind. and they didn't want it in the cop car. So I brought my own car to the police station, and sat there as my wife, you know, abandoned her boarding gate, didn't go on her flight, and came back, and they told us, like, you can't go back there. And so one in the morning, we went back, packed all our Stuff and kind of just like have, been sneaking back there to get our stuff, every now and again.

>> Viktoria: But did you just already bought this?

>> Ian: Yeah, but it just didn't matter. Right. It was a long standing land conflict between the forest service and this private group of houses.

>> Viktoria: And they didn't tell you that?

>> Ian: They told us it had been sored.

>> Viktoria: That's kind of like a big deal. Come on. You'buying a house but you cannot live there.

>> Ian: Right. And when the lawyer who said it was all sorted, all of a sudden when everyone was trying to get a hold of him because this was a problem, he just vanished.

>> Viktoria: Oh my God. What?

>> Ian: Totally disappeared.

>> Viktoria: Oh my God. That's like the worst. And did she at least get your money back?

>> Ian: Oh, no, no. Yeah. so that was tricky. Yeah.

>> Viktoria: Wow. Okay. But that's like a bad experience. did you then what? Buy another house? not. I don't ever want to deal with this again. I mean.

>> Ian: Ye. We're renting right now.

>> Viktoria: yeah.

>> Ian: Ah. And we kind of lucky because we have like family in the area. We stayed at their house.

>> Viktoria: But did this not throw you off? You're like, I never want to do this again. I don't ever want to go back there again. I don't.

>> Ian: It did. Yeah. Definitely did.

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Ian: and it took me a while to work through that.

>> Viktoria: Ah, I bet ye.

>> Ian: So there's that. And the reality of the Greek bureaucracy is insane because we can't even do it. They what they told us was like, yeah, sure, you could like bring up a court case about it.

Jimmy and his wife were planning a wedding in Greece when their car broke down

essentially the court hasn't made a decision that they were supposed to make like a year ago or something. You could bring up a court case is what the lawyer told us. But if you do that, the chances are good that the court will just get annoyed that you brought it up and will be way more likely to turn you down.

>> Viktoria: why is there court then? I mean, what do you have it for?

>> Ian: I know, Yeah. I don't know.

>> Viktoria: and also, like, I don't know. I would also, have a hard time to trust any lawyer again, even if it's this different person. But still.

>> Ian: Yeah, absolutely. but there's a positive story on.

>> Viktoria: Oh yeah, okay, let's talk about something positive.

>> Ian: We were here during COVID right. And we ended up getting my temporary visa extended. And they. The lady that helped us out with it was like, I can't do this again. Either he has to leave or you get married. And so we decided to get married. It was super romantic in there in that federal building. We were like, yeah, we'll do it.

>> Viktoria: Okay, quick decision.

>> Ian: And so this is what started off like maybe a month or two months of like my wife making constant phone calls to different organizations to try and figure out what we need, what we can do. Driving down to the like village city hall and getting m. It arranged for like a month or so and eventually got a date. We were like, great, this is the day we can actually get married. We got all the paperwork and they were like, but this is the date. Like if you can't do it, then he has to leave like five days after that or something. And because they were, I don't know, strict on that or something, I'm still not super clear why. but we. Great, we'll do a pre wedding trip and we went down to the south of Greece and did a climbing trip, which was amazing and super fun. And the day comes that the day before we're about to get married, we're like, we'll drive back. It's like a six hour drive. We get 20 minutes outside of the village and our car just breaks down. Like, okay, great, we'll get it fixed. it'll be fine. We'll make it back. It's like 10 in the morning. We'll make it there tomorrow at 8am for the way.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, no problem.

>> Ian: it got towed. the tow truck driver, instead of taking it to the garage, went and saw. Sat at a coffee shop for a while with our car on the back of his truck and then eventually got it to the garaged 4pm Great. You need this part. We'll get it on the bus from Athens tonight. It shows up at like 6, 7pm I don't know. U. wrong part. Right. And so we are like hanging out at this mechanic just like really hoping and he's like, I think 10 at night. And he tells us that like it it's not gonna happen because he can't get the part he needs to wait until tomorrow. And we're like, but we're like meant to be at this wedding tomorrow. He's like, what do you mean? Like my wife tells him it's like it's my wedding tomorrow, I'm meant to get married at 8am and the guys, there were like five guys hanging out in this garage because that's what people do here if they're bored. They go watch some other person work. so then all of a sudden they just go into this like Rescue mode. Andeah, you tell us. And so the guy's driving around, the village on his motorbike and like calling all his friends, asking what kind of cars they have so that he can go and eventually go to his friend's car, pulls the part that he needs out of his friend's car, brings it back to ours, Jimmy rigs it to get it all fixed up and then he's great. It starts. Don't turn it off, go home. And this is like, you know, midnight. And so we, we drove the six hours straight, got in at 6am we like drank a juice and then got married in, the parking lot of the city hall where, we had one friend who'nna be our witness. and they told us she can't be our witness because she's not Greek. And so they, so they pulled, two random people who were out of work on their cigarette break to come and witness our marriage. To which we signed, signed the papers on the truck of the May, the hood of the mayor's truck.

>> Viktoria: Like, oh my God. I mean, you have the greatest story in there, right?

>> Ian: It was like the, like the bureaucracy almost screwed us over because it was so much work to get to this point. But then exactly the like, love.

>> Viktoria: I mean, honestly, I, I would have lost my nerve if, I were you. Like, if they say like the part already, the part that the part is coming tonight, I was already. No, no, because there are always like things that happen. But I'm also surprised they work so long.

>> Ian: Yeah, people work really late here. People work a lot. It's crazy.

>> Viktoria: But you know, when you like, I mean, in case, that what you said, that guys at the Mechanic, they probably like each other and they like hanging out. So it's whatever, talking, being with friends, doing some work at the same time, you know, it doesn't sound so bad. It's not like being in a cubicle by yourself.

>> Ian: Yeah. And they drink so much coffee that they're wired. What else are theynna do? Anyways.

>> Viktoria: Yeaheah.

I'm a coach for expat dads. So I work with people on specific issues

All right. and now I wanna talk about your, coaching. Your expert coaching.

>> Ian: Y.

>> Viktoria: Expert coaching. Okay, so let's talk about your expt. Coaching.

>> Ian: So I'm a coach for expat dads.

>> Viktoria: For dads. That's different. So. Yes. Yeah, talk about it.

>> Ian: Yeah, right. It's very much so falls into the spectrum of life coaching. And for me, why I started out was I like becoming a dad is like one whole different life chapter and One other, like, new struggle. And then being an expat, it's a whole other thing. And you put them together and they just like. Yeah. And then it just. They merge and they become this whole different, like, realm of just, like, kind of difficulties, I think, where you can kind of lose who you are, lose why you're an expat and why you live abroad and what you love so much about it. and the stresses of figuring that out no longer just for yourself, but figuring it out also for your child, and navigating those cultures. So I work with people on specific issues to just kind of empower them to live the life that they want to live and be the father that they want to become. yeah, that's essentially the essence of it.

>> Viktoria: And do you have, Do you work with young families or with families who have already kids who are a little bit older or teenagers? Do you have a limit there?

>> Ian: no limit at all. Right. If you identify as a dad. So even if you don't have a kid yet. Right. Like, I am happy to call myself a dad right now.

>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.

>> Ian: Our baby is here in a week.

>> Viktoria: Oh, that's, like, soon.

>> Ian: It's very soon. Ye.

>> Viktoria: Yesnna. Happen any minute.

>> Ian: Yeah. And part of what I want. Am working on doing and want to do is there's so many resources for moms and for women in this.

>> Viktoria: but not for.

>> Ian: But not for dads. There's some, they do exist, but I want to really create that more like, global network so that people can connect and relate and have that support, and advice and community. And then also scale it down to more local areas so people can do stuff in person.

You help people navigate complicated bureaucracies when their child is born somewhere else

>> Viktoria: All right. Do you also tell them then about, let's say, all the bureaucracies that are happening when your child is born somewhere else? Because I remember, when my kids were born here, I had no idea. I mean, honestly, you have no idea what you expect anyway, because it's your first time experience. But when you're in a different country, then it's like, oh, yeah, here is. You need, this birth certificate. You need this certificate and this certificate. And then you go to this office and that office, and then you're going to get this card. And so do you help with all this complicated staff?

>> Ian: I couldn't if I tried. The real answer to that is that, like, what I do is working with people to help them figure out how they figure that out. Right. So, okay, It's. It's in them. And I actually believe that through my Wife and I having to figure out giving birth in Greece, we actually feel way more ready. And the journey towards m. Navigating the pretty complicated system that we have here is giving us what's going to be, I think, a way more informed birth. so I encourage people to do the learning on their own as well because it gives you so much more empowerment.

>> Viktoria: But so, all your coaching is more on the emotional level than on the logistics.

>> Ian: It's essentially more on the emotional level. Yes. but that's the deeper stuff. That is like, cool. How are we going to figure out the logistics? And it's working with everyone to come up with their own plan and essentially utilize their own strengths to get where they need to be.

>> Viktoria: Okay. And so how can people find you?

>> Ian: I have a website, which is just iansandard.com and my Instagram handle is the Expat standard.

>> Viktoria: The exp Standard. That's a great name. I will put this in the show notes so people can find you. So they can just click on it and then they will be right at your place.

>> Ian: Perfect.

In my coaching, people struggle with getting support with their kids

>> Viktoria: And what is one of the questions that you get the most?

>> Ian: In my coaching, I think the biggest thing, the biggest topic that kind of comes up is like people that are struggling with getting support. Right. Because people live away from home. And I think us, as expats all understand that it's hard enough to find new friends.

>> Viktoria: Y.

>> Ian: And when you're putting that into the frame of being a parent and needing support with your kids, the struggle to build that network and build that community is very, very real and very prevalent for a lot of people.

>> Viktoria: 100%. Because you don't have like your own parents or the grandparents there to just drop off your child. When you all of a sudden have to go somewhere, you have to wait.

>> Ian: 14 hours for them to get on a flight.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, exactly. No, you have problems over. Yeah, yeah, Exactly. No, yeah, 100%. You don't have the support system that usually comes with a family that lives close by.

>> Ian: Ye.

>> Viktoria: Yeah. That was also, for me that was always like a big deal. Now I'm all used to it. It's like.

>> Ian: Yeah.

>> Viktoria: And also my kids are not babies anymore. They are like four and seven. So it's like okay to be for my seven year old it's like, hey, do you want to do a play date? You go to your friend's house, it's fine. for the four year old, I mean we have babysitter every now and Then when we wa. Wantn go somewhere, it's not like you have the time, all the time, to do your adult stuff, fun stuff. Go out, have the time to check out fancy restaurants or see a movie or whatever you wanna do. It's more like, if I really wanna do this, it costs because I have to pay for a babysitter. And, we have to, I don't know, stay home more often.

>> Ian: Right. And I think that what I work towards helping people do is no longer having to, like, make those. No longer making full sacrifices. Right. It's like, how can we go out and explore this country in this new place together? How can we actually, like, enjoy having a kid in this new place?

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Ian: Yes. We might not go to fancy restaurants, ca. Because the baby's gonna spit up and cry everywhere. but we can try out new things. And what does that look like for us?

>> Viktoria: Exactly. So it's just on a different level. It's like, for us, it would be like, we're not going on, road trips and sit in the car, like, for a long time and just drive anywhere. It's more like we'll do a camping trip instead. You know, we'll go there and then we'll go camping, and we'll therefore, like, a long weekend at one spot instead of, like, driving around and checking out cities. You know, you don't do city trips anymore, but you definitely find compromises.

>> Ian: Yeah, absolutely. And I just. I like helping people figure out what works for them and their family. Right.

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Ian: And what is new.

>> Viktoria: Yeah. So it's just exploring on a different level.

>> Ian: Yeah.

>> Viktoria: At baby speed and. Baby speed. Yes, exactly. Yeah. all right, cool. So I make sure people can find you, through the podcast.

>> Ian: Great. Appreciate.

>> Viktoria: Okay. Yeah.

Were you nervous having a birth in a different country

And, so now you're expecting a baby. Were you nervous having a birth in a different country?

>> Ian: My first reaction when I found out we were having a baby was that we needed to move back to the U.S. yeah.

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Ian: And because I was, like, there, they'll speak English. I can navigate the system. I will actually, like, understand what I can do. I can hold, like, I can hold my weight. And that was my, like, immediate thing. Right?

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Ian: And we did. We actually, like, packed up, weh. Semi moved back. We flew all of our stuff to Alaska. And not all of our stuff, a lot of our stuff. And we got there, and we were there for maybe three days before we were pretty quickly reminded of, like, why we don't live there anymore and why we live where we do.

Giving birth in Greece without health insurance is cheaper than in the U.S

>> Viktoria: did you have, like, Health insurance, then when you moved back.

>> Ian: Yes. Weirdly enough, just somehow, by, like, coincidence.

>> Viktoria: okay.

>> Ian: And yet still with health insurance, giving birth here is gonna cost maybe a tenth of what it would have. And we're doing everything privately.

>> Viktoria: Oh, you don't have insurance in Greece?

>> Ian: We do, but we just start choosing private. Yeah.

>> Viktoria: yeah. Yeah. Okay. Got it. I know. It's so weird. The US the health system is. I don't understand it at all. What do you have to pay out of pocket? And then you probably don't have to pay anything out of pocket. Ined.

>> Ian: Super complicated.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, no. but where you trust fully enough for the doctors in. I'm mean, sure. There are, like, so many. So many people born in Greek. In the Greece. So were you worried about, like, maybe. I don't understand it. Like, things are done differently.

>> Ian: Oh, without a doubt. The C section rate in Greece is somewhere around 70%.

>> Viktoria: But isn't it the same in the.

>> Ian: U.S. it's around 40 in the U.S. and, like, even the U.S. is kind of trending upwards.

>> Viktoria: Ye. Yeah.

>> Ian: A lot of other countries are way lower. And Greece has this, like, way about it where the doctors are kind of like, oh, that's gonna be a big baby. We're gonna need to schedule a C section already. And you're like, I'm two months pregnant. I don't know how you can tell. And how you can tell is nine months down the road is like Easter. because the doctors want to have their time off for their holidays, and they schedule these things in advance, and they just have.

>> Viktoria: They don't have to deal with it.

>> Ian: They don't have to deal with it. And that's just kind of like spiraling into a. Now new doctors aren't learning natural births and things.

>> Viktoria: Right, Right.

>> Ian: Yes, we did a lot. My wife did a lot. And I like to think I did some. but she did a heck of a lot of work in researching it and learning about it. And, like, what doctors? Right. For us, we met multiple doctors, we met multiple midwives. and we're actually ending up trying to go for a home birth. Midwives at home. but at, relatives in Athens or that were three minutes from the hospital.

>> Viktoria: Okay. Just in case. Uh-huh. And, Was it hard? Do they speak English, the midwives and the doctors?

>> Ian: Yeah, the midwives and the doctors definitely speak English. When you get into the private system, it's like we are benefiting from Brexit happening because a lot of. A lot. A lot of Greek doctors went and were working in the UK and then once Brexit happened, they couldn't stay.

>> Viktoria: Went back.

>> Ian: Yeah, they came back. Yeah.

>> Viktoria: So they're. Okay. So then now they have all English. They speak English but with the British exent for you.

>> Ian: Exactly.

>> Viktoria: Yeah. And what about. Have you worries and not worries but like are you already thinking like daycare, kindergarten, all these things?

>> Ian: Yeah, these are all on our mind.

>> Viktoria: And how is that there?

>> Ian: They're good, right? They exist. it's not like the US where you have to get you have to schedule daycare from the day you find out you're pregnant.

>> Viktoria: Exact.

>> Ian: And hope you find some you don't spend like one of your two salaries on.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Uh-huh.

>> Ian: But it does exist and it's like you know, they're not like trying to make child prodigies inside of daycare. Like a, A lot of these private places in other countries are maybe.

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Ian: But again like for the most part the people that work there care. Right.

Is there anything in Greece that you don't get used to

They're one of our good friends. Is an early childhood carer educator. Yeah, yeah. I think educators fair. We're talking like two, three years old.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, yeah.

>> Ian: And she's just like the kindest person ever. Right. She's just so sweet. I would trust her with my baby and a heartbeat. And those are the kind of people that do that work here.

>> Ian: Because it's not, it's not inside of a system that's super broken.

>> Viktoria: yeah. Okay, but is it also then all like, it's smaller, it's like more private or is it in Greek? I'm just like thinking how it is in Germany is mean, it's far away. But it's old system. Is it like church based? Sometimes.

>> Ian: there's a lot of church based stuff. Yes. but for the most part the schools, even the early childhood schools aren't like run by the church. Even though there's like old law that you had to be baptized to go to church or to school.

>> Viktoria: Sorryh.

>> Ian: But it's not like you're showing up being cared for by a priest.

>> Viktoria: Right, right. Yes, yes.

>> Ian: Yeah. And they're not. And they're not. There are private systems if you are in the city like Athens, way less so out in the villages.

>> Viktoria: Right.

>> Ian: Just for a numbers reason.

>> Viktoria: Yeah. You also. I don't have as many kids.

>> Ian: Yeah, exactly. so if we were to move into the city, which we never will, then we would be Looking at different private practices.

>> Viktoria: Uh-huh.

>> Ian: But staying out here, it's just kind of like the one in the village. we're fortunate here is really great. So I can't speak to every village, like pre.

>> Viktoria: Right, sure.

>> Ian: But here it's good.

>> Viktoria: Yeah. And is there anything in Greek? I always want to say Greek or Greece. I really have a problem with the word. I don't know. But so, is there anything in Greece that you don't get used to.

>> Ian: Until you learn the language?

>> Viktoria: Right.

>> Ian: So I think there's an end to this. Sometimes the way that people talk to each other and the energy that they talk to each other with always, to me sounds like they're fighting. So it's like a. Ah, it's very loud. People are like, pretty loud. People are very like, Aggressive is the wrong word, but like boisterous. So I always. If I don't know what's going on and I walk in, it's like people are. Why are people fighting right now? But they could be like, having a very great conversation that they're both in total agreement on. That is weird to me. okay. And the old men that sit at, ah, coffee shops on every corner stare at you like you are the weirdest person in the world.

>> Viktoria: Okay. Yeah, that's hard to get used to say what's wrong with me. Yeah, well, that's u. Oh, yeah.

Building a community abroad has been really hard for you

Is there like, any downside for you, though, for being abroad?

>> Ian: Building a community, has been really hard. it's something that, like, I thrive on. I'm a very social person, and I'm not gonna lie, it's been super hard. And that had me feeling pretty down for a while. and it's been, you know, years of just kind of like slowly building it. And turns out for me, my best friends are all expats.

>> Viktoria: okay. Yeah.

>> Ian: That live here and they are nearby. And it's always reassuring to find people that line up with you like, exactly. You're like, whoh. Whoa, great, there's me. And actually what I found is the more expats I meet in doing the things that I love doing, the more like me they are than if I were to walk around the US For a day. Which is really interesting.

>> Viktoria: Do you, have a lot of expats, though, in your town where you are? No. So how did you then have to drive a little bit to meet them?

>> Ian: Yeah. So, we used to live right outside of Thessaloniki, like the. The second largeest city. Yeah. so we met some friends There and they are more city people and they're more like.

>> Viktoria: Right.

>> Ian: Living in the city. And they've introduced us to some people. and now we have some friends that live about three hours away from us. Yeah, it's far for us, it's not too big of a deal. because we.

>> Viktoria: You'the American distances.

>> Ian: That's just next door.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, exactly. I mean, it's always like, sure. Bigger cities, has a lot of expats, small towns, not so many.

>> Ian: We have very, very few. there's some people that have just like, married into people from the village. I guess I am one of those. And that's actually, that's how my wife never was born and raised here anyways. was her mom was from the UK and got together with her dad and ended up here.

>> Viktoria: Yeah.

>> Ian: So there's not. There's not a lot.

>> Viktoria: And, was it always like, before you even moved there? Was it like, hey, why don't we, go to the uk?

>> Ian: Oh, we've talked about the UK tons of times. Plenty of times. for exactly that. For the reason of wanting to find community.

>> Viktoria: Yeah. And it would be easier. It's just easier if you speak the same language already.

>> Ian: Ah, yeah, it's definitely easier when you have the language. And for us, the thing that kept winning out was like, the nature and the food and the general overall culture and atmosphere of the people, even if they don't speak our language.

>> Viktoria: It'S, well, are more. They're definitely friendlier. I mean, on their reputation. I mean, since I'm doing this podcast, this comes up a lot like people who are from a sunny place. I always like in a better mood, friendlier, more open, versus like people from a place that is colder, where it's dark a lot. They're more to themselves and not as open and not as friendly.

>> Ian: Yeah, absolutely. And also we want that sunshine becausee I want to feel like that I want toa be open. I wanta be like, friendly.

>> Viktoria: Yeah. Are you from Alaska originally or.

>> Ian: No, I just worked and lived there for a while.

>> Viktoria: okay.

>> Ian: Originally from central Illinois.

>> Viktoria: O from Illinois. Interesting. Not Chicago, though.

>> Ian: No, not Chicago. Like two hours south.

Ian Anderson calls me right after his wife had their baby

>> Viktoria: All right, we're, coming to an end. Thank you for being on my podcast. I think I got all my questionse.

>> Ian: That's awesome. Thank you so much for having me. It was great.

>> Viktoria: Yeah, that was Ian. And the crazy thing was right after we hung up, or pretty much right after his wife's water broke and they had their baby. So great. Timing, but, yeah, that's crazy. Congratulations again to your new family. I hope everybody is really well. And to you listeners, if you are a dad and you are interested in his services, then you can find him on Instagram at the Expat Standard. Or his website is iansander.com or there's also a Facebook group for dads called Dads Abroad. And all of the show notes are in the. No. And all of the links are in the show notes. And also in the show notes, you will find the information to reach out to me if you want to be a guest on this show or if. If you just want to leave me a comment, then you also just write me an email. I am happy to hear from you. And on a quick note, there won't be any episodes coming up in the next couple of weeks, but it's not gonna be too long. I will be back soon and I can't wait. So until then, I hope you have a great time and a great March or whatever time it is you're listening to. Anyway, bye.