In a recent episode of the Photo Business Help podcast, photographer Szidonia Lorincz and host Natalie Jennings discuss the importance of creative outlets and listening to intuition in business and life. Lorincz found herself turning to painting with watercolors as a break from her photography business, finding it relaxing and freeing from the rules of her industry.

Jennings and Lorincz both agree that when something becomes your livelihood and business, it can sometimes hinder creativity. This is where the Greenhouse program, an eight-week one-on-one coaching program designed to help photographers build their business, comes in. Lorincz found the program integral to her life and business, helping her gain clarity and confidence in her photography journey.

One of the most valuable exercises from the Greenhouse program for Lorincz was the coin toss exercise, which helped her listen to her intuition. She used to have trouble trusting her gut instinct, but the exercise helped her make it into an experiment and now she uses it every day.

Jennings and Lorincz also discuss the importance of niching down in business and being uniquely yourself. Trying to be everything to everyone can dilute your brand and make it less memorable. By being uniquely yourself, you may repel some people, but you will also attract your die-hard fans and build a strong community around your brand.

The inner critic can be a major obstacle to progress and success, and Lorincz and Jennings encourage listeners to acknowledge its presence, but not let it hold them back from taking action and making progress. It's important to remember that even small steps forward can add up over time and lead to significant progress and success.

Lorincz found value in the Greenhouse program's intensity and accountability, which helped her stay focused and consistent in her work. She also appreciated the program's built-in habits and workbooks, which she continues to revisit and use in her business.

Looking back at your progress and accomplishments can be a powerful motivator to keep going and maintain consistency. Lorincz plans to continue using the Greenhouse program as a touchstone to track her progress and growth in the future.

In conclusion, the Photo Business Help podcast offers valuable insights and advice for photographers and small business owners looking to grow and succeed. The importance of listening to intuition, having creative outlets, and being uniquely yourself are key takeaways from this episode. By implementing the lessons and exercises from programs like the Greenhouse, photographers and small business owners can gain clarity, confidence, and momentum in their journey.

Transcript

copy

[0:00:00] Natalie Jennings: It's funny, too, because we were just talking about my dog and the Tarot card stuff I'm doing, and every time I don't hit record, I think I should have hit record before that. But for those listening, you probably have already heard that my little dog Isla passed a couple of weeks ago, and we were also talking about visual art. This Tarot project I'm doing, it made me think, before we kind of get into this interview, just how important it is to have creative outlets, to just have something that you love doing.

[0:00:34] Szidonia Lorincz: Absolutely.

[0:00:36] Natalie Jennings: So szidonia hi.

[0:00:38] Szidonia Lorincz: Hi. Thank you so much for the opportunity to be here.

[0:00:42] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. What kind of creative stuff do you turn to when you feel like you have to make or create something? What have you been up to lately?

[0:00:51] Szidonia Lorincz: Well, it used to be photography before I made that into a livelihood, and I'm very happy about that. But now I feel that whenever I need a break, I paint.

[0:01:06] Natalie Jennings: Oh, cool.

[0:01:07] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah, I really like it because I paint with watercolor, and it takes me right back to my childhood. I used to paint in school, and there's no rules. Just like letting the colors lead me to create whatever I see or whatever I imagine. So that really help me unwind and relax my mind.

[0:01:32] Natalie Jennings: That's really cool. It's interesting that you say there's no rules, because I think rules, for example, in photography, can be helpful rule of thirds or whatever, but I think when you're constantly thinking of rules, it can almost hinder creativity.

[0:01:48] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah, definitely. And also, just building a business, I have to be really conscious about steps that I'm taking and consistent about things. So it's nice to have a space where I can just let it flow whenever I want to do it, but also whatever I want to do in it. So that's a great outlet for me.

[0:02:12] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, well, and I'm with you on the photography thing. When it's your livelihood and your business, it doesn't always end up being the thing that you turn to to be creative. Although I found if I do something photo related, that's totally different than what I'm doing in my business. It makes a big difference. So if I do some wild Photoshop composite, which I've shared on Instagram before, like kids in unicorn gardens and stuff. But, I mean, that kind of stuff is a version of photography that I can still use. But it definitely changes, especially if you're busy, because you're just doing it all the time, and so it doesn't feel like the same outlet I think that it used to.

[0:02:54] Szidonia Lorincz: Absolutely. I agree.

[0:02:56] Natalie Jennings: Where are you in the world right now?

[0:02:58] Szidonia Lorincz: I'm in Costa Rica right now. Oh, no.

[0:03:02] Natalie Jennings: That's amazing. So maybe we should let folks know. So we'll back up a little bit. We connected last year, the last time that I opened the greenhouse applications and everything, and you applied, and we worked together in the greenhouse for eight weeks. That was last fall.

[0:03:20] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah.

[0:03:21] Natalie Jennings: And you were home then for most of it, I think.

[0:03:24] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah. When we started, I was in Spain, but then I was in Transylvania for most of the duration of the coaching.

[0:03:36] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. One of the coolest things about podcasting and the Internet, I guess, is just being able to work with people all over. I mean, I was so excited when we connected because I was like, oh, my gosh, we're in totally different continents, totally different lives and things we're doing, and it still was possible, which I think was really cool.

[0:03:58] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah, that was amazing.

[0:04:00] Natalie Jennings: So you found out about the greenhouse just, I think, from the podcast, you said.

[0:04:04] Szidonia Lorincz: Yes, I think so.

[0:04:07] Natalie Jennings: Yeah. And so maybe if details are a little fuzzy, that's fine. But can you describe where you were at in your photo journey, kind of when you found that and kind of what's happened since. Just in kind of a broad term. And we can dig into some stuff, if you sure.

[0:04:24] Szidonia Lorincz: I actually remember very specifically the moment I found you, so I can weave that into it. But it all started at the beginning of last year when I went on the Camino Camino de Santiago, and I was looking for clarity, and I wasn't sure what I was going to do. I was thinking of maybe changing professions, but coming back, I had this really strong feeling that I do want to give photography a good shot. Like, before that I was mostly in the gig economy, and it was a lot of wishful thinking, but I didn't have direction and also an idea of how to build a business out of photography. So I was doing courses throughout the summer, just here and there, little short things. And then one evening, I was really frustrated. I felt that nothing really was happening that was taking me closer to my goals. And I was out in Valencia taking a walk in the evening and just, like, frantically looking through spotify checking photography, podcast, something to hold on to. I found a variety of them. And then I listened to yours and I thought, well, this is it. I have to find out more about this. And I think the same evening I scheduled my call with you. And then it was all just smooth sailing.

[0:05:56] Natalie Jennings: Yeah.

[0:05:56] Szidonia Lorincz: And it was exactly what I needed in that moment.

[0:06:01] Natalie Jennings: That's very cool. I want to backtrack a little to that search for clarity, which I talk about that all the time, but it really is the sort of antidote to procrastination and just feeling kind of aimless as soon as you have a goal or an aim. But what I love about your story, and I remember talking about this with you, is you were really listening to yourself and you were saying, like, I just could feel that I wanted to give photography another shot. In other words, you didn't know how you were like, the how has not been revealed to me yet, but the actual the knowing, like, I don't want to give this up yet, was really powerful for you, and it was a big foundation in our work because you just had that knowing. And it's something for folks not familiar with the program, but I open and close it. I sort of bookend it with Tarot readings. And I think a big reason I do that is because I have a very pragmatic, not a super woo woo approach to it, but it's just sort of a reflective approach and it helps my aim is that I hope it helps people get more in touch with their intuition and their inner knowing. And I think that that was really helpful for you because you just knew. You were like, I need clarity.

[0:07:15] Szidonia Lorincz: Definitely.

[0:07:16] Natalie Jennings: But I don't exactly know how this is going to happen. And I try to tell people all the time, you can release the how to a certain degree because just knowing, that what can be hugely powerful.

[0:07:29] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah, definitely. And I think that was the main, like, throughout the program, that was something that really helped me along. I'm also a spiritual person, and as you said, I listen to my feelings, my intuition. So I wanted something that could also be part of my life. And I was just looking back over the syllabus for the course and I realized that there were so many things that we did together for the business that I still implement in my personal life as well. So it was just hugely valuable in that sense, and that's how it became part of my life, like business, because I never really viewed myself as a business person, but through this, I managed to kind of cross that bridge and look at it like, oh, well, business can be an integral thing. Like, I can do business with intuition, I can do business with values. That was amazing.

[0:08:39] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, well, that's really cool. Can you expand a little on that? Like, what specific pieces stood out to you that were kind of easy to integrate, as you're saying, into your life?

[0:08:50] Szidonia Lorincz: Definitely. I think one of the best exercises was the coin toss. The coin clip. I really love that because I used to have problems listening to my intuition. Like, I had the feeling I had the intuition, but there was always a little voice that said, should I listen to it? Should I not listen to it? And with this exercise, I don't know how specific I should be about it.

[0:09:18] Natalie Jennings: You can describe it if you want, or I can jump in, whatever. It's up to you.

[0:09:21] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah, maybe you can explain it and then I'll tell how I use it in my life.

[0:09:26] Natalie Jennings: Well, one of the ways I describe, especially to folks that have no previous interaction with Tarot because it has a very poor reputation, I always describe the coin flip analogy that not just the Tarot cards, but everything we kind of work on in the program as far as connecting to your intuition is like a coin flip. Imagine if you're like, should I do photography or should I not? And not doing it is tails. And you flip a coin and it's heads. And somewhere in that split second space of a coin flip, your body immediately reacts with either like a yes or like a and it's so quick, but it's so always bang on. It's always exactly like the thing. And I think I encourage people to listen to that because it's such a tiny voice if you're not used to doing it. But it does get louder, I think, the more that you do it.

[0:10:22] Szidonia Lorincz: Exactly. That's exactly what I wanted to say as well, that this kind of helped me say, okay, now I'm just going to make this into an experiment. Like, whenever I hear that little voice, I'm going to listen to it. And it did become stronger. Now I have situations which in the past would have made me question, what should I do? And go back and forth. And now I just have a strong feeling either going either way. And when I decide against the feeling, it just gets stronger and louder. So now it's absolutely something that I use every day, probably, but I don't even realize a lot of the times unless it's something big and important, which is great.

[0:11:11] Natalie Jennings: I love you. Like when I go against the feeling, it just gets stronger. Yeah, because that's so true.

[0:11:18] Szidonia Lorincz: Habits.

[0:11:20] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, we think we can outsmart it all the time, like loud and it just never goes away if you're not listening to it. That's the interesting thing. Yeah, I'm sure everyone listening has something in their life where in their gut they know that they should be doing whatever it is XYZ, but they're just somehow talking themselves out of it, whether it's a job or a relationship or whatever, or into it. And that voice can be really helpful. And I just really like that you brought it back into business because especially when you're the person running your business, so you kind of are your business in a lot of ways and it becomes a big part of your life. So being able to make decisions in that space in the same way that you make decisions throughout your day to day stuff really helps. It really helps you just become a stronger, more aligned business owner.

[0:12:10] Szidonia Lorincz: Definitely. And it kind of brings me to another point that I really like and I still use both in my business and my personal life, which was, well, you remember I had a bit of trouble niching down and I couldn't really put my finger on what I was doing. And it's interesting because it's a process. I think it's still ongoing, but it's becoming more and more specific. But one thing that you mentioned and it was also in the curriculum that yes, it's okay to turn people off by being yourself and it's a good thing. And that really helped me because I think before, one of the things that I believe that I should be able to cater to everyone and that's what would make me a good photographer. And also in life, in a lot of the situations I would be like, well, I want to be liked by everyone. I didn't do anything wrong, so why should everyone not like me? But now I feel that I can just be myself and if they don't like me because I'm myself, well that's great because it shows that I have a personality like I and goes both ways. You know, maybe I don't like everyone either, but this was very empowering to me specifically, both in the business side but also in my personal life.

[0:13:45] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, I really enjoy that too. I think I can see it in my own work, just stepping out and bringing the tarot into this work. I'm like, well, there's a lot of people that are not going to like that. But it brings me so much joy. It's helping people and it's a good example of following your own vibe and just being yourself. And it's hard in the beginning because part of it is money. You really want to take every gig that comes your way, especially if money is tight. Some people money isn't tight, but if you're in that boat where you're the sole breadwinner or you've quit your job to try and keep this thing going or whatever it is, it can be really stressful. So you're kind of like, I should take that, I should do that. And if you try to be everything to everyone, you end up being this sort of diluted kind of brand. I guess that doesn't stand out. And I remember when we started niching down and really digging into some of the travel stuff, it was a big leap for you because you really had to remove a lot of stuff from your site and as you said, we still hadn't gotten to the point of like, okay, this is my niche. And I like that you said it's always a process because even my own business, like twelve years later, sometimes I'm like, I'm not going to do that anymore, or maybe I'll start doing this. It's always an iteration, but it's scary to repel people is, I guess the point I'm trying to make. Whether it's a financial fear or just as a human being, we don't want to be not liked, but we're not going to appeal to everybody.

[0:15:12] Natalie Jennings: And if the more you can be uniquely yourself, the more people you will repel. But the people that you do attract are going to be like your die hard people. And those are the people you want. Those are the people you want to do referrals for you and to hire you over and over and build a community around. So I like that you said that.

[0:15:32] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah, it was a big revelation. And as I said, it was empowering because every now and then I remember this and I'm like, yeah, that's true. That's something that can really put a positive spin on this dilemma. And it's very helpful.

[0:15:53] Natalie Jennings: That's awesome.

[0:15:54] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah.

[0:15:54] Natalie Jennings: Well, let's talk a little bit about kind of where you were. I know we kind of got into it and where you kind of are now. Maybe you can just like, in kind of broad strokes, let people know what's going on.

[0:16:08] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah. So after we finished well, I kind of just went on in the process that we started together. And one of the things that I really needed to work on was consistency. And as you say, consistency is key. So I really had to just hammer it in for myself. So I started my blog, which I wanted to start for years. And I always put it off and I've stayed consistent with it. Like every week coming up with an article even. I try to do it in batches, but sometimes things happen and I don't have the time. But I make sure that every Monday my blog post goes out and then throughout the week I have material to put on social media. And then on Friday I put it in my newsletter, which again, is a new practice that I started.

[0:17:10] Natalie Jennings: Can I just jump in quick and just have you speak a little more about consistency? Mainly, I'm curious what your relationship with consistency is, because I like to say and I teach all of my mentores, I guess the same thing, that being consistent is really what's going to, over time, help you get better at any skill or being a consistent parent, being a consistent language, learner whatever. It's truly what helps us progress. But I do remember saying to you that it's not always motivation and roses, that there's days where you're like, I have no interest in this. Yeah, I'm just curious how that's felt for you when you have those weeks where you're like, I just want to quit, and how it's felt to push through those weeks.

[0:17:54] Szidonia Lorincz: Well, you just reminded me of a quote that you told me about this, and I can't exactly quote it back to you now, but motivation isn't just the result of action, but it's also the cause of it.

[0:18:14] Natalie Jennings: I am with you on this because I mess this one up all the time. It's from Mark Manson's subtle art of not giving a fuck. But it's along the lines of, like, action isn't just the result of motivation, it's also the cause of it. Yes, and I love that quote because it's just such a wonderful reminder that you might not feel like going for a run, but sometimes putting your shoes on and going for the run will make you feel more like running. It's a strange thing.

[0:18:46] Szidonia Lorincz: And also just remembering this, it really helps me start the work because usually I think for me at least, that's the most difficult part to begin. When I'm unmotivated, like, maybe I just need ten minutes and I'm in the flow, but if I can get myself into that ten minutes, then I might procrastinate for a couple of weeks and then things are just not happening. So again, just having these little reminders of how I can keep doing the things even if I don't feel like doing it, or how to work with the inner critic, because that was also a big thing. That when I just think I'm not good enough or I'm not doing this right. Just kind of allowing it to be there, but working through it nonetheless. Yeah, those were the big things that helped me move through it. And then when I've been doing it for a couple of months, also looking back at it is something that helps me a lot. Like, I look back and I think, I was capable of doing it for this long. I'm not going to stop now. Yeah, and then you get consistency. Yeah.

[0:20:07] Natalie Jennings: Well, it's such a powerful lesson to learn about yourself that I can do this because we all have the Art of War Is. I mean, I'm sorry. The War of Art is by Stephen Pressfield. He talks all about this. It's just resistance. It's like we all have it. We all get real excited about something and then that excitement wanes because our life is just in patterns and waves like that. And then the excitement will come back for most people, but it's in that period of like when it wanes. If it's something really important to you, can you just sit down and make yourself do whatever it is? The less insane the goal is, the more likely you are to prove to yourself that you can do it. I've used this example many times, but my Spanish on duolingo, I made a goal to do it two minutes every day. And that's like, no matter if I've been sick or traveling or I can always find two minutes. It's silly to think that you don't have it. And I've built this habit over I'm actually on like an over three year streak, which is you would think my Spanish would be better, but it's a daily reminder. It's such a powerful exercise, even if my Spanish is going slower than I'd like, because it's a reminder that by sticking with it, I am getting a little bit better day by day.

[0:21:27] Natalie Jennings: And I think, like exercise or language, maybe learning an instrument, those are good examples because you kind of make progress and then if you don't work through that wall of resistance, you totally lose the momentum and you have to kind of go right back to the starting line. And that's where people tend to just give up or not want to do it because you really do have to backtrack and do everything all over again. Whether it's getting back in shape or re practicing certain sentence structures or learning that same scale over and over again on your instrument. If you stick with it, you might not make major progress if you have just a reasonable goal, but you won't fall backwards, which I think is really the big lesson there.

[0:22:14] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah, definitely. I completely agree.

[0:22:18] Natalie Jennings: Yay. Everything looks fantastic. And it's so fun for me because where we start and where we end up and then watching people, I'm so excited seeing your consistent emails come into my inbox. Like, oh, another blog post. She's doing it. What sort of, I guess in a succinct kind of way. Where are you at now? How are you feeling about things compared to how you felt a year ago?

[0:22:46] Szidonia Lorincz: I definitely feel a lot more confident and a lot more at peace with who I am and who my business or what my business is about. I've been reaching out to a lot of people. I've been making connections, meeting amazing business owners, other photographers. So it is kind of a snowball effect, and I like to see the progression of it, maybe in moments. It's not as fast as I would like it to be, but I think there's a lot of value in that. I just feel that in a couple of years, looking back at this period of my life, I will be really grateful to have State present in it because it's so exciting, like new opportunities, building something new. It's really an exciting experience and I'm happy to do this with my life.

[0:23:45] Natalie Jennings: I'm so happy to hear that. It's great. And I'm really glad everything that you've brought up makes me very happy. Because even just recognizing that is a snowball effect, that it's momentum, the stuff we just talked about. But it's also recognizing that just like planting a tree or growing out your hair, it's not something that you're going to every single day be like, wow, leaps and bounds. You might have a really good week or a really good month, but if you look back on a year or two of, let's just say, growing out your hair, you're going to notice you're going to notice a lot of progress. But it's that day by day where I think it's easy to doubt yourself, easy to fall off track, all of those things. And I just really like that you found value in that because I think that's just such a hugely important part of the whole thing.

[0:24:33] Szidonia Lorincz: Definitely.

[0:24:35] Natalie Jennings: Anything else you want to add?

[0:24:37] Szidonia Lorincz: Well, definitely it was what I learned with you. Just like many parts of it keep following me in my life, but I still have in my Kindle weather with Natalie's recommendations. I'm just going through the books one by one, but also just having built a series of habits into my life that we started together last year and now they are just kind of automatic like things that I wouldn't do my week without. So I'm very grateful for that and I'm so excited to have come this far and I'm so happy that I looked back at the program because now I just have that as a touchstone that I can come back to it every six months. And see, I've come this far since last time and I've done this since the last time I checked. There's so much value in it, even to this day and going forward as well, for sure.

[0:25:46] Natalie Jennings: That's awesome. I'm curious also, the greenhouse, if you're new to this whole conversation, is an eight week one on one with me. So it's pretty intensive. We got to know each other pretty well. I mean, we're meeting twice a week. It's a lot of one on one time, which I think is really not only my favorite way to do things, but I think that's where you really get a lot of growth. But I'm just curious how it was for you. What was your experience having such an intense program and maybe even what was challenging about it, like what you didn't like or some of the bigger obstacles you bumped up against?

[0:26:22] Szidonia Lorincz: Well, I liked how intensive it was and I think it was in a good moment in my life, at least when we started, because it was low season in my work and I had the time to dedicate to it. So then when things started picking up, we were really deep into it. So I wasn't going to abandon any of the activities or things like that. And I think also, for me, it was better to do it like this, because I've spent years before contemplating what I should do and trying some things and then not doing it and getting into something with a lot. Of enthusiasm and having done it in a short amount of time with so much to work through, really help me just, like, completely focus in on it. So I was really present and I didn't want to waste any sessions that we had together or any workbooks that I was doing. So I was just really my life for those two months were about this. And I had other things to do as well, for sure, but it really helped me just, I guess, arrive to a clarity within myself because of the intensity of it. And also, I think the way that it's built, it's really easy to revisit and just go through the things again maybe weeks after or months after. So for me, it worked really well. And yeah, the only thing I found challenging was maybe juggling my other responsibilities. But I think it was necessary for me to be so focused and also knowing that it was two months, it didn't seem undoable at all.

[0:28:16] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, it's back to that old thing about I've talked about this in the podcast with my own experience in coaching programs and stuff. But it's that thing about like, when you invest a fair amount of money and you know that there's another person on the other end of it that's holding you accountable very seriously, like twice a week. I remember telling you too, you were super excited as everyone is in the beginning, and you hit maybe like week four or five, and there's just like, oh, gosh, this is a lot. But it's like really, truly that investment in yourself financial time wise, all of it, that I think separates getting the incredible amount of stuff you got done and still continue to do, actually done from the sort of common approach we have where we sign up for a course and maybe you have a group call, but where it's just a lot of people don't finish because they're not being kind of pushed through it. And I think for myself, part of the reason I designed it this way is because it was something I needed. They always say you sort of create what you want to see in the world, but I really appreciate that feedback because I feel very strongly about customized one on one support because I think that that's what separates people from the people that get stuff done and progress from the people that don't always see it through.

[0:29:43] Szidonia Lorincz: Definitely. And there was absolutely a part of me after the greenhouse that was thinking that I don't want to let you down. You invested all this time in me and we worked on this together, so it helped me stay consistent. Even when I'm sending out my newsletters, I'm thinking, so Natalie will see that I'm still doing it. It really helps a lot. And I do honestly feel like personally accountable, which is hugely important, I think, especially in a business like this when we do most of the work ourselves. So I think that's like a huge gift of this program that I can just feel like I'm accountable to you to do the work for myself at the end of the day. But you're there and you're listening.

[0:30:40] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, well, I really appreciate that, and I know the feeling myself. Like I said, with my own coaches, it's really a powerful thing. And I don't want to end this because one of the things I was thinking about when you were describing that is, like, when you're meeting twice a week, one on one, for eight weeks. I remember when it was over, we were both like, bye.

[0:31:03] Szidonia Lorincz: It's true. Yeah. And absolutely, it was a bit of a shock, like, all of a sudden coming to a halt. So even that feeling just keeping the momentum going and now having you in my life, because I follow your work online, it's a really nice all around experience.

[0:31:26] Natalie Jennings: Cool. Well, speaking of online, please let folks know where they can connect with you on social. And we'll have all. Of your stuff in the show notes, but just in case people aren't looking at those.

[0:31:37] Szidonia Lorincz: Definitely. So my Instagram handle is Light of Szidonia, and my website now has you.

[0:31:47] Natalie Jennings: Want to spell that out for folks?

[0:31:48] Szidonia Lorincz: Oh, sure, I'll give it a go. So it's L-I-G-H-T light. No, sorry, that's plural. L-I-G-H-T-S-O-F-S-I-D-O-N-I-A-I think So my name is quite.

[0:32:09] Natalie Jennings: Long lights of Szidonia. And again, it's linked in the show notes.

[0:32:15] Szidonia Lorincz: Yes. And my website, well, it links both from my name and from my business name. And I'm just going to go with the business name because that's much easier to spell. So travelexposurephotography.com amazing. So that's travelexposurephotography.com amazing.

[0:32:36] Natalie Jennings: I love it. I love watching everything you're doing and it really is a joy for me because you've done so much hard work and it's really paying off and you can really tell. And as you said, it's a process, but I can really see a big shift for you and it's great. And this is so fun to catch up with you again.

[0:32:57] Szidonia Lorincz: Definitely. Thank you so much. That's great to hear the feedback and it's been so great to be back here with you. It was an amazing experience.

[0:33:07] Natalie Jennings: Well, thank you. How long are you in Costa Rica?

[0:33:10] Szidonia Lorincz: So in total I'm here for a month and a half, but at the end of this month, I'm going back to visit my family in Transylvania and I feel that I need a bit of rest. I've been on the route for a while now, so it's going to be nice.

[0:33:26] Natalie Jennings: Yeah, very cool. Oh, Costa Rica for a month and a half. I'm like looking out the window and it's just this gross, snowy, slushy gray. And actually, I usually go away for a good part of the winter and obviously with Ila being sick and then passing like I was here with her. But normally I do not stay for this part. And it's like every time I talk to someone that's somewhere beautiful and warm, I'm so glad that someone's enjoying the weather.

[0:34:02] Szidonia Lorincz: That's so well put and I completely understand you.

[0:34:09] Natalie Jennings: Well, thank you again. It was really great to catch up and it's fun to do these interviews, these follow up interviews, because we didn't talk ahead of time, so I had no idea what you were going to say. And it's just very touching and heartwarming to see that people are really finding clarity because it just feels good. It feels good for me, but it feels good to get clear on stuff. I think that space when you were doing the camino is a beautiful space because there's all this creative potential, but sitting in that too long can start to feel just like a restlessness.

[0:34:46] Szidonia Lorincz: Yeah, definitely. I mean, you've created a lot of value both with the podcast and with the program, so I'm super grateful for that. And I'm happy that you can see things working out in people's lives because you're changing them.

[0:35:08] Natalie Jennings: Well, thank you. That's very kind of you. And we'll connect again. Let's do this again in a while and see how things are going.

[0:35:16] Szidonia Lorincz: Definitely. I'd love to.

[0:35:18] Natalie Jennings: Well, safe travels. Thank you.

[0:35:21] Szidonia Lorincz: Thank you so much.