Coming up in this episode, if the.

Truth is boundless, what is ultimately boundless is love.

I truly believe that love is embedded in the fabric of our biology.

If we're not embodying love, are we really embodying the truth?

If all we're trying to do is make sense of the nightmare, we never actually awaken from it.

You are now listening to the Here for the Truth podcast, hosted by Joel Rafidi and Gerasim.

What's up, everybody?

Thank you so much for being here.

Once again, I'm Joel Rafidi.

Got my co host yoursmos with me.

As always, this is the Here for the Truth podcast.

We love inspiring, we love challenging the status quo.

We love bridging multiple modalities.

And today is absolutely no different.

We have Natasha Natsarali returning for the second time to hear for the Truth.

And this is really is an incredible human being in a special conversation that is so much so the embodiments of what we're about.

What do you reckon, bro?

Yeah, I mean, you know, me and our audience and I love gnm.

I love this information.

I love the way she communicates it.

I think what's really cool is just even thinking about our Friends of the Truth community.

You know, the people that are in our world are people who can hold a lot.

You know, they're not dogmatic, they're not rigid, they're really open to learning.

They're really into stuff that might be considered more esoteric and seeing ways that things can be integrated.

You know, we have all this different knowledge and wisdom and different worlds from different parts of the world, you know, the country or the world in different camps.

And yet, you know, at the end of the day, it's like you're an individual.

You have your history, you know, you have the things that you've been through, your unique walk, your path to walk, your unique story.

And then life happens.

And so do you utilize all this information that you've gathered?

And so, well, maybe this could help me in this instance or maybe if I integrate these two, they can support me.

And so I feel like we keep bringing into our world people that aren't super dogmatic, you know, that aren't so attached to their beliefs that can leave room for the man.

There's mystery and maybe I don't know everything.

And this thing resonates.

This thing makes sense.

And I think that's my favorite thing about Friends of the Truth and about our audience are people that are hungry for knowledge, for wisdom, and have the ability to be discerning on what lands and what doesn't land for them and to realize that they don't have all the answers and so can they grapple with new ideas.

And it's really cool, and it's something that I just appreciate.

And this conversation is no different.

Yeah, absolutely, man.

I feel like this kind of person, this archetype that you're speaking to, like with this level of curiosity, there's just so much more vitality that is able to flow through a human being when you're able to drop the dogma, drop the rigidity, drop this absolute certainty and recognize that there is a seed of truth planted all around you.

And how can we kind of collect these seeds to form, you know, an even more beautiful and potent and healing kind of tree, which I feel like is what we're doing here, in a sense.

And it's just a beautiful thing, man.

And for those that are listening for the first time and maybe even hearing the phrase G and M, which stands for German new medicine, for the first time, this is an ongoing conversation that we've had since 2021 at Here for the Truth.

And we're going to link, actually episode 163 featuring Dr. Melissa Cell, which is the legend of Dr. Hama, the foundations of GNM.

For you to get a broader understanding for the basis of this conversation, we're going to have as well, if you feel called.

But this is pretty.

This is pretty powerful word right here.

Yeah.

I agree.

That episode I share with many people that want a foundation of, again, Dr. Hamer's story and the summary of the five biological laws.

And the beauty of G and M is that it inspires radical self responsibility.

You know, for an individual that's really to take ownership, that's ready to take ownership of their life and who they are and their experiences and their perceptions and their mindset, this is for you.

You know, if you're.

If you have too much skin in the game, in some other system or ideology or the letters after your name, then, you know, you.

This may like these.

This knowledge and this wisdom may be triggering.

Yeah.

Which I ultimately think is a good thing.

But, you know, it's important to stay open and keep an active mind and.

And dance with the.

With these ideas and this wisdom and this knowledge, for sure.

And if you're listening to this podcast right here, right in this moment, I don't believe there's any accidents, any coincidences.

And you know, to be here for the truth means to have this level of openness, to remain immersed in the mystery of what is life, what is possible, what is potential, what exists?

Who am I?

Why am I here?

You know, like, these are the questions that we are interested in and these are the kind of people that we're really calling into our world as well.

So if you feel resonance with this conversation, with everything that we're about, for only $17 a month, we have our incredible membership community, Friends of the Truth, a place that I love and adore so much.

And it continues to involve where we're offering you so much insight, so much knowledge, so much wisdom across actually, in September.

We're doing seven calls this month for our members.

And not to mention, my favorite aspect is the telegram community, which is so vibrant, it's full of laughs, full of wisdom, full of so much what it means to be human and keeps us alive.

So you can check all that out at herefor the truth.com forward/fot and we definitely invite you to take a step further into our world.

And in my opinion, this is one of the highest return on investments that you can make in yourself is that $17.

And just to be impacted by people who are really on the frontier of knowing who they are on the deepest level and living out their purpose, which is the thing that interests us the most.

So I know for a fact you're going to absolutely love this conversation with Natasha.

She's a powerhouse.

She's a manifesto in human design and she's so articulate and coherent when it comes to this knowledge.

We would love to hear your feedback from this episode.

So drop a comment in Spotify, send us an email, drop a comment on YouTube, wherever it is.

We'd love to hear from you if you can.

Before this episode starts.

Take 5 seconds to rate review.

Subscribe on Spotify, on Apple, wherever you are on YouTube, we would really appreciate that.

Please enjoy this conversation.

Natasha Natsarali returns for the second time to Here for the Truth.

She previously joined us alongside Melissa Selling, long time Here for the Truth fan favorite, where we dived into the biological woman.

But Natasha Natali is a G and M practitioner and educator who guides individuals to awaken their true power through spiritual and biological connections.

Inspired by her holistic upbringing and the teachings of Dr. Harma's five biological laws, Natasha is dedicated to helping others achieve total sovereignty and freedom over their health.

Through her work in biological relating, Natasha has realized the power of our ancestral lineage.

And by incorporating family systems in her work, it has helped her to bring harmony and reconnect individuals with their divine nature.

Natasha, so much love and respect for you, we become good acquaintances at this point in time.

You're part of our community and we just really love everything that you're about.

You're such an inspiration.

So thank you for being back here.

Thank you for having me.

I mean, it's just always a treat to have such great, thoughtful conversations with you guys.

Yeah, absolutely.

For sure.

Now, I know we kind of briefly got into your story on that episode with Melissa, but this is all about you now.

You're center stage, Natasha.

So we want to dive deep into your personal hero's journey and the major kind of rites of passage in your life that led you down this path and have continued this evolution for yourself.

Yeah, I mean, I think one of the very unique things that I've sort of been raised within this paradigm and looking at how much we've sort of expanded this conscious and truth community, I look at all the next generation of kids, you know, like Joel, you raising your family, and they're raised in such a similar manner to how I was.

But when I was going through it, I didn't have a community of other children or other families that were also growing up with this gnosis or growing up with this truth seeking environment.

So the community just wasn't there.

But I think that it's such an important, it's such an important gift as a parent that you can give to your children to raise them in the sovereign environment.

So that was sort of setting the foundation of how I got to where I am now.

What was it like, though?

Like, what was it like being the child and your mom.

Being your mom.

You know, she's an amazing woman.

Yeah.

Being raised with this, you know, knowledge like, you know, the five biological laws and everything else that your, you know, your mother was and is into.

So I sort of grew up in this very immense dichotomy because, you know, my father was a very successful venture capitalist and so he was very much in the material world.

And my mom, you know, had a spiritual awakening that sort of expanded as she went through her separation and divorce from my father.

So it was this very unique dichotomy where he was showing me the essence of what it means to be limitless in the material world.

And my mom was teaching me the values of what it means to be limitless in the spiritual world.

Right.

And it was very unique in that sense because she wasn't that way from the very beginning, my mother.

But my parents split already when I was 8 years old.

So I was very young, introduced to all these things.

And my mom is very Much a community leader.

So she was bringing educators into our home.

We would have channelers come.

She was traveling with Dr. John Gray and talking about men are from Mars, women are from Venus.

I mean, she was taking our family to go to Egypt to meditate in the pyramids.

So she was just full on down the spiritual path and also introducing this to us and raising us in a very conscious, aware way.

But it's not that it was perfect.

You know, so many parents who are in the G and M community or in this community, they want to raise their kids holistically and they want to get it just right.

You know, they don't want to make any mistakes.

Mistakes.

They don't want to give their kids any conflicts.

And I just think it's impossible.

You.

You can't avoid these things.

And I certainly didn't have, you know, the perfect quote, unquote childhood.

But within that, the truth was always shared with me.

And when you get to experience that for yourself, you never lose sight of that.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I want to.

I want to dive deeper into the raising kids with GNM paradigm for sure, but I just want to pick a bit deeper.

What did your dad think about Germany, medicine and your mom's bath?

Yeah.

And.

And also, how did your mom come, like, come across it?

Good question.

Yeah.

So my father was kind of a force.

I think I take after him in the way that he had this very rebellious attitude toward authority.

And he was always, you know, tasha bear, never take no for an answer.

And he was the type of person, he would walk into any room.

He had this very big presence, and people would kind of look at him like, who is that?

And he was very fearless in how he went about things.

But he was not a perfect man.

You know, my father had a lot of healing to do.

He was very conflicted.

He grew up with a lot of struggle.

He was an underdog and overcame it.

But he had his.

Yeah, he had his own journey, so to speak.

And he's passed now, but that was his sort of story.

And he ended up leaving when I was 8 years old.

And he wasn't very involved.

You know, he was very old school, traditional, that kind of absentee father.

And so my mom ended up having to raise us as a single parent.

And that's not easy.

That's a difficult journey.

And she struggled.

She had four kids on her own.

She had to put food on the table and he wasn't around.

So for her, I think that's what her hero's journey was, where she went Down a path of really thinking, okay, there must be more to this life and how can I move with awareness through the chaos of this storm?

Because he really did leave my mother and the family in a little bit of chaos.

And so she sort of went down an awakening path.

And it started with just her wanting to reconcile the relationship and her divorce and create as much harmony as she could in our family.

And I think she started with Healing Touch and Reiki and Jinshindo.

And then three times somebody brought up Germany medicine.

It was three different people that brought it up to her.

And after the third time, she thought, okay, now this is something I'm meant to look at because I'm hearing this constantly.

People are asking me if I know about this Dr. Hamer, that I'm German, have I heard about this work?

And so eventually she went to a class with Carolina Merkula.

She's the one who created learninggnm.com and it was instant.

Then my mother thought, this is the way.

So I must have been, I think I was around 10 or 11 years old.

But the years leading up to that, she was quite holistic.

So we were going to the naturopath, we were going to a healer.

And I'll tell you something really interesting here too, is that when my parents were going through this separation and divorce, it gets very nasty.

And if, you know, the legal system is not there to create any harmony within the family environment.

So I am the youngest of four children and I was the only child under 12.

So in our legal system here in Canada, in the province I live in, if you're under 12 years old, you cannot choose which parent you want to have full custody of you.

So in doing this whole process, my mom was told by the lawyers, if you get her, your daughter in regular therapy, should the issue of custody come up, we will have evidence that she should be suited to you.

So literally my childhood from 8 years old was spent in weekly sort of quasi mandated therapy.

And my mom being holistic, she was trying to find people in alignment with her.

So I was doing EFT, Emotional Freedom Technique tapping.

At 8 years old, I was doing Healing Touch and Reiki because my mom was putting me with these counselors and therapists who were sort of holistic.

So it was kind of wild in the sense of like being so young.

And you know, usually you hear about people having spiritual awakenings and doing all this stuff later in their life.

But for me, I was like, yeah, I've been doing this once a week since I was eight.

That's incredible.

How do you think that has impacted your personal journey in terms of coming into some of these powerful modalities so early?

You know, like, because often in life, like you mentioned, like, people are living the status quo, the familiar, then some kind of crisis or drama happens, then these modalities kind of come into their life and like, wow, this is incredible.

Like, where have the wow and incredible moments been for you?

Has there been stuff that's come along even in your journey where it's like, holy crap, this is, you know, a paradigm shattering?

Yes, there have been, but also, you know, this through raising children.

Children are born with the innate boundless truth within them.

So they have this childlike wonder and they have this instinctual connection with their own divinity.

So it was almost as though I was really given a precious opportunity to not lose that.

Yeah.

And so these practices really honed in on being able to expand on that.

And it's really funny.

I mean, my grandmother just passed and I was looking through old photo albums and I saw this picture of myself.

I must have been 9 or 10 years old.

And I'm there, like wearing something I would totally wear now.

Like, I've got this giant crystal around my neck and like a funky little dress on.

And it's so interesting to see.

Oh, okay.

This is who I am.

This is who I've always been.

But also, I'll tell you the caveat of that.

The shadow side of that is, you know, work like that, like emotional freedom technique and Reiki and healing work, that's deep work.

That's not for the faint of heart.

So I also think at the same time I was being given a very heavy load for just a young.

Yes, absolutely.

For an eight year old to be able to comprehend.

I remember at the time it was remote viewing, was very big and I was doing from the Monroe Institute, the hollow sync binaural beats.

I mean, this is like over 20 years ago I was doing that.

And I remember my mom put like the noise canceling headphones on my ear with the binaural beats and I ripped it off and I said, whoa, that's way too intense.

No, I don't need to be sitting and meditating and doing that.

So I think it was both.

I had these moments of understanding, oh, I'm honing in on my connection and I'm.

I'm diving deeper into expanding the truth of who I am.

And then on the other side also feeling like I'm maybe maturing at an age where I don't need to be maturing this fast.

Yeah.

Was there, was there a period at all?

Because you find this often with children of parents who like, are uber holistic and maybe push things on their kids and then the kid kind of flips and is like, you know, forget all that stuff.

I'm going to go live in like, normie world for a bit.

You know, was there any, like, semblance of that at all where you were like, oh, G and M. Cool, I was raised that way, but that's not my focus.

Like, there's other things that I'm doing and my mom's my mom.

But like, you know, was there a period where you weren't maybe exactly the way you are now?

Absolutely.

I definitely had my rebellious period through puberty.

And if you look at what's happening even in your biochemistry, you know, if I track it back exactly accurately, as we like to do in gnm, I would say it's when I started my menage.

So when I started my menstruation.

Whoa, does that ever change?

Because biologically, that's when you're sort of entering the constellation.

So when the female has her first sexual conflict, which for me could have been as simple as my father leaving and being absent, you know, in.

In nature and in the family system, to lose a parent, to not have a father, to have absent, an absentee father, is a major conflict for a child to go through.

And then, you know, you lose your territory.

And that was something that happened to me too, you know, with a nasty divorce and a split between my parents.

And now I don't know where my territory is.

These two conflicts would have probably, you know, definitely brought me into a constellation.

So when I went through puberty, I think I definitely rebelled.

But also very interesting what happened to me is that all these sort of psychic senses or extra sensory gifts that we know in GNM are constellations turned on for me.

And they were too intense.

So I remember I went through this very long few years of having tracks with sleeping because I would have these really intense dreams where, you know, like as where I would be visited in the night.

And what happens is in biology, when you have nightmares, you can actually look at this from the biological level.

So when you have a malevolent nightmare, you know, maybe a being is coming to you, or demons or anything like that, that's actually estrogen.

Estrogen is going up.

You're actually more in a depressive biological state when you have that.

So I started having these spells of real bad night terrors when I went through puberty, where I would Cry.

I didn't want to sleep.

I didn't want to do anything.

And I think my mom was at her wit's end because I wouldn't sleep at night and I would be up all night.

And she sent me to a psychic medium and she put me in the car and she said, I am going to take you to study and train with this really amazing educator who works at the College of Psychic Studies in the uk.

And she's going to work with you because I think something deeper is going on with you.

And I was furious.

I was screaming, crying at my mother.

I said, I do not want anything to do with this.

I do not want to open this up.

And my mother just said, you got to make a deal with me.

You meet her one time, we try this because I'm willing to try anything so that you sleep.

And I was always kind of quirky in this.

You know, I had like imaginary friends and my mom would have the channelers over, we'd be meditating the p. So I was always kind of into this.

But now it started to get too heavy as I started to get into my womanhood.

And I wanted nothing to do with it.

I didn't want to touch it with a 10 foot pole.

Also, these synchronistic dreams that I was having were scaring me.

They were like scaring the living daylight out of me.

And I just.

I didn't want to go anywhere into diving deeper into unlocking what that was.

So I met with this psychic medium.

And I kid you not, you guys, I thought some kind of witch was gonna walk through the door.

And this beautiful woman walked through the door and she taught me how to meditate.

And she was almost like Dr. Edith.

She would give us these tasks.

She would put photographs in an envelope, and we would sit there and tell her what was inside the envelope.

She would show us a picture of somebody that she knew, and we'd have to write down information that we were gathering about them.

And she was really just allowing youth, because she worked with youth exclusively to understand these intuitive psychic gifts.

So that kind of helped me hone in on it.

And then once I sort of understood the mechanics of it, I thought, okay, I'm done and I'm never touching this world again.

And I was an artist.

How old were you?

How old were you?

Real quickly now, you went to this person?

When I went to her, I must have been around 13 years old.

And since I started.

I started my menstruation around 11 and a half.

And that's when these sort of tracks.

My triggers were the nighttime and they started to kick in.

So I started to not sleep.

And I would.

I would cry.

I would cry before I slept.

Like, no, no, no, no, no, I don't want to sleep.

I can't do this.

I don't want to have these dreams.

I don't want to have this sort of feeling that would come over me because I would have these very intense night terrors and.

And I would wake up exhausted.

Were you having traditional schooling alongside all of this as well?

Or what was that?

Was.

What was the primary education like?

Yeah, good question.

So I was going to a private school at first, which was a very mainstream private school.

It's the same one that all my siblings had gone to.

And.

And then I was really into dance, so I became really devoted to my path.

I wanted to become a professional dancer, and I was a very high achiever at that.

So I was accepted into a special program where I would only go to school half the time.

So if you were at a very high competitive rate and you were doing this professionally, you could go to school from 8am to 1pm and then I would go into the dance studio in the evenings.

And I actually really considered dance to be not only the professional path I wanted to go down, but to me, it was really sacred.

It was really spiritual.

There was a lot of chaos going on in my family home.

I was the youngest of four kids, and this was my chance to really shine.

So, yes, I was in mainstream school doing all the mainstream things, but through dance, I was actually only going there half the time.

And I knew that none of it mattered because all I wanted to do was dance.

And my mom also raised us, all of us, four kids, that school doesn't matter.

She would do the unlearning thing, we'd go to school, and then she'd come back and she'd kind of tell us what her thoughts were on it, but she never pressed us.

She just let us do our own thing.

And we were all very high achievers, all four of us, you know, very academically inclined as well, Even though my mom was like, you know, it doesn't matter.

So it's.

This was the dichotomy.

You know, we were in one foot in the real world and then the other foot in this sort of more conscious world.

Okay, I have a question.

So in a previous episode, Joel was talking about how he was raised Jehovah's Witness, and we were talking about Santa Claus.

And so he said how he would, like, literally burst all the kids Bubbles in school and tell them, like, Santa Claus wasn't real.

So I'm curious.

Did you at all?

And he may have touched upon this in the previous episode.

You're in.

You're in mainstream school and, like, you know, they're talking about science and whatever else.

Like, are you, like, secretly telling your friends and the.

Or challenging the teachers that they're wrong around these subjects?

Yes, I did.

And I got.

I got into a lot of trouble for it.

So I remember I would do really weird things.

So we had one biology class where we were growing plants and we had to do, you know, the whole scientific project on what would you use to make a plant grow more than the other?

And certain kids were using fertilizer or I'll do less water.

And I decided, oh, I'm going to talk to it.

I knew it.

I was waiting for it.

Yeah, I'm going to talk to one plant and say really positive things and how beautiful it is and how magical it is.

And then I'm going to go to the other plant and say, like, you're never going to grow.

And I'm going to say really mean things and really negative things to this plant and see which one grows the most.

And my biology teacher was just looking at me thinking, where even coming from.

And then we would.

In my English class, we would have, you know, school projects where you would read, where you got to choose a book for outside reading.

And I think I chose.

I would choose, like, ask and it is given by Abraham Hicks or the Monk who Sold His Ferrari.

Like, I would choose the Proof of Heaven was one of them.

I would choose these very sort of spiritual books and do it that way.

And then I was always really into, like, the oracle decks.

So when my friends from school would come over, I would really like to sort of read their fortune.

And.

And then when I got into my teens, I would do this really funny thing where, you know, when you get into that, like, rebellious phase and you're going to house parties, I would start to read people in the house party that I would say to girls, oh, he's cheating on you.

Do you know that?

Just, like, right in front of him.

And I.

So much drama because I said, I feel it in my soul and look at this.

And he's.

And I would get into so much trouble.

Or if I had a dream about somebody, I would go to them and say, you know, I had this dream about you, and this is what's going on.

And so my friends knew this side of me and just totally accepted It.

And they actually honored it.

They.

Everyone really thought, no, it's legitimate.

The manifester being a man.

The manifester being a manifester, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's cool.

Yeah.

I think, you know, in biology, it was really interesting.

We had a lesson on.

I think I touched on this in the last episode, hiv, aids.

And the teacher was talking about this documentary.

Why they were talking about this in high school, but it was a documentary about sex workers that she was talking about.

And she was trying to highlight that in science, not everything is 100% because these sex workers in Southeast Asia were having children who were not HIV positive, even though they were.

And she was trying to say, see, we don't know everything in science.

And then I was like, well, actually.

Actually, I can explain to you exactly why that happened.

And my mom would keep stacks of books.

She would buy them by the dozen.

So like virus mania.

She would always keep like 10 copies in the house and just hand them out when people came over and said, you need to understand why a virus has never been isolated and all these things.

But I.

Because we didn't have Covid.

We didn't have this stuff.

I actually didn't take it that seriously.

I didn't think this was some sort of profound truth that my mom was a trailblazer, that she was trying to bring people toward liberation.

No, I didn't.

I didn't think about it that way at all.

I just thought about it as, this is how I was raised and this is just my upbringing.

And it was very simple as that.

Yeah.

How does your mom feel about, like, your path now, you know, in terms of really embracing GNM and, you know, being a trailblazer yourself and pushing this out there.

Yeah.

So she kind of pulled me into it.

So when I went into my teens, dance was my ultimate focus.

And I got a really amazing scholarship to train at a performing arts college in New York.

And I was living there, and then I transferred to LA and I got scouted right out of school.

And I was working full time.

I was dancing in film and tv, I was on tour.

And I. I tell you, I was steadfast.

Nothing else had ever entered my field of awareness that I would do this to me.

And you know what it's like at Osmos when you live in la and then once you're in the scene and you're working with this person and working with that person, it's like a hamster wheel.

You just want to keep moving.

And you're told if.

If you have a Plan B.

If you have a backup, you'll never make it.

You know, they really promote that.

You don't think about anything else but this.

So that was my full speed ahead.

And then Covid happened, and my tour was canceled.

And my mom called me up laughing and said, oh, this whole thing will probably blow over in three weeks, because you and I know viruses don't exist.

Just come home and, like, let's hang out for a bit.

It'll be so nice to see you.

Because I was traveling nonstop.

And she said, it'll be so nice to see you.

And we'll, like, cook, and we'll just, like, hang out at home and do nothing because everything's closed.

So I did.

And that was March of 2020.

And then March 26, 2020, I'm telling you, I went through, like, a whole initiation.

I get a knock on the door that my father has passed away.

So it was just full blown.

You know, I would say a full blown awakening.

Actually.

That was probably my awakening.

And I didn't have a job, didn't have a place to go back to.

I'm back here in this pandemic.

And now I'm just learning this, you know, horrible news that my father has suddenly passed.

So now, you know, I'm picking up the pieces of my life, sort of wondering what to do next.

And of course, as you know, Covid went longer and longer and longer, and I had so much to deal with.

Managing my father's affairs and his estate and trying to sort everything out.

And then finally, as it sort of calmed down, my mom said, like, what are you gonna do?

And I was like, I don't know.

Like, I can't tour, I can't dance, and I'm very artsy.

So I thought, maybe I'll do design, and maybe I'll start a collection.

Maybe it'll be jewelry.

Maybe it'll be fashion.

Maybe it'll be something like that.

And she kind of looked at me and laughed and said, okay, try that.

In the back of her mind, she knew.

Yeah.

And then she said, do you want to help me?

You know, I think.

I think we really need to take advantage of this opportunity here because people are worldwide wondering what's going on.

And I want to open my home and teach G and M. So she was opening her home once a week and inviting anybody who would like to join, teaching them for free, out of the goodness of her heart, the five biological laws, and explaining to them what is going on here on the planet and what are we experiencing here?

And so she just pulled me along.

And then it was quite miraculous because I start going online as, like, everyone's starting to speak out and the rebels and.

Right.

Everyone within our sort of network.

And all of a sudden, they're talking about Germany, medicine.

And I just thought that was the coolest thing, because I just thought, here's this thing I grew up with that was underground and nobody talked about and nobody ever acknowledged it.

It was just this weird sort of framework I grew up with.

And now people are really majorly speaking about this.

People are creating course programs.

People have communities.

People are learning about this at a massive scale than ever before.

And I said to my mom, we got to do something.

We have to join this.

I want to meet Melissa, Sal.

I want to go to these things.

And I did.

And then my mom sort of nudged me in, and finally she sat me down, and she said, you know, this isn't about you and what you want.

This is about humanity and how we can best show up to serve.

And that was quite daunting.

She really, like, got me there.

And then I said, okay, yeah, let's do it.

And from then on, I just said, I'll put one foot in front of the other and stay consistent with this and see if this is my path.

If this is my path, I surrender and show me universe, God, divinity, whether it is.

And they did.

Yeah.

I still remember meeting you and your mother for the first time at Music in Sky.

Yeah.

Like, that was really cool.

You know, it's amazing what happens when you make a choice, you make a decision, and you just show up to a place to connect with people, and then the things that unfold from that.

I mean, how our community has grown, and, you know, I feel like the whole Covid scam had to occur for all these reasons.

You know, we were having this conversation yesterday while we were celebrating Sophie.

Like, I'm so grateful it happened.

You know what I mean?

Like.

Like, even meeting Joel and what we've built, what we've created, it's like, yeah, it's pretty special.

Like, life presents you with something, and then what do you choose to do with that?

So it's pretty cool.

I really.

I really love what you're up to and what you've done and.

And where you're going.

It's amazing.

Yeah.

And if I look at it, you know, from the.

Sorry.

From the family systems perspective, as I always kind of do, it makes a lot of sense because, you know, the hero's journey for the female is that she leaves her family of Origin.

And then she has to go out into the world and discover who she is.

And within that discovery, she goes toward the father.

So, you know, the father is the head, the father is education, the father is searching, is travel, is your purpose, and it's also your value.

And then once she discovers that she has to return to the mother, you have to go back to the body.

The mother is who you relate to.

The mother is your reflection, your mirror of life.

And then once you return and you unionize and you harmonize the father and the mother within you, that's when you get into the embodiment of who you are and who you're sort of meant to become.

So that was so funny how life just presented this thing where I was living on my own in Los Angeles, and then I got sent back into my mother's house.

So I went back to my mother, and then through my father's passing, you know, all of a sudden, this sort of purpose, this value unveiled itself to me, and now I'm sort of returning back to the mother.

And then you're ready to go off on your own.

So that was sort of my hero's journey.

Yeah, yeah.

The twist of fate that sometimes we can't avoid.

You know, the soul's calling is the soul's calling.

And circumstances will shift sometimes in, you know, painful and unexpected ways to bring forth that inner genius within.

Within each and every single one of us.

And what choice do we have but to embrace that when those moments come, you know?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Natasha, what do you think are the most misunderstood things about gnm?

Because.

Nice.

You know, we see.

We see even in our world, you know, in the alternative world, in the terrain world, even people who don't, you know, believe in viruses as the cause of disease, there's this still this, for some people, you know, aversion to gnm, or they question it or they challenge it.

And I find personally that.

I think the biggest critics of it either one, they have too much skin in the game, in whatever modality or system or letters after the name they already have, or two, they don't really understand the thing they're criticizing.

So I'm curious your thoughts on this.

Yeah.

What I've been sort of pondering on lately is that I think also from the outside, they have a perception that this framework is very dogmatic, you know, because the truth in its essence should be boundless.

Right.

If we're really living in our truth, it should be something that liberates us, not something that creates more conditions or Restrictions.

And I think if you don't actually understand the framework and haven't studied it, you think, oh, this is another set of conditions.

You're telling me that everything has to be this conflict and it has to work in this way and it has to follow this.

That I also think is an aspect that turns people off.

But the way that I see it and the way that I've come to integrate and embody it is that our bodies, our biology, should follow the same spiritual universal laws as life, right?

So if you look at life, this matrix, this reality as we've come to understand it, cause and effect is a law.

If I take an action, I have an opposite reaction.

There's nothing I can do to avoid that, right?

There's a fundamental truth that we've all come to understand.

And so if life works that way, why aren't we equal and the mirror and one with life, right?

And that's our first biological law, right?

Cause and effect.

Every symptom I experience in my body is a result of a conflict that I went through, is a result of something that I have gone through and now I have adapted.

So not only is that biological law, but that's a fundamental truth of life as we know it.

And that's the same thing with the two phases.

The second law is also just cause and effect.

If I swing the pendulum one way, right, it's going to go the other way and the next thing, you know, the interconnectedness of life, we could say we all have oneness, everything relates to one another.

That's, you know, our microbial law.

It's also the law of our ontogenetic system that every living thing, whether it be bacteria, a fungi, a microbe, a protein, nucleic acid compound, those are all serving a function.

Yeah, within whatever symptom, within whatever biological adaptation I'm experiencing.

Okay, that's also universal law.

Everything is interconnected.

And then you have, you know, even if you're looking at the layers of tissue that starts in an embryo, in utero, we grow through each layer of our tissue.

And that's also a spiritual law.

We all have to come through a mother, we all have a nine month gestation period.

This is not, you know, a framework, this is truth.

So that's also within the fundamental foundation of Germany medicine.

And then you have the ultimate quintessence, which is every symptom in the body has an adaptation and a biological function that's helping you solve the problem.

Well, isn't that also spiritual law?

Nothing is random, nothing is meaningless, nothing is just chaos.

Everything has a function.

Everybody has a role.

Everything in our interconnected universe has its place.

So, you know, I think people don't understand that.

They think, oh, this is.

They're saying it's textbook this, and it has to be this way.

But why would our reality and life as we know it not mirror exactly, in synchronicity and harmony, our biology?

And if you really understand your biology that way, you understand that that is the truth.

I can't say, oh, we've all been exposed to the toxins, but this person has breast cancer, and the toxin magically went to the duct of her breast.

You know, just.

I don't understand.

And if we're following truth, then it has to be boundless.

And to me, the understanding of how we are mirroring the world around us is ultimate liberation.

Truth.

Yeah.

I think the other thing, maybe people get confused about, you know, we're in a growing toxic environment, and so you can have disease states outside of, let's say, a biological conflict, a dhs, if there's poisoning, if there's malnutrition, and if there's physical injury.

Correct?

Correct.

Yes.

But, like, how does that role?

Like.

Like, even for malnutrition, like, is it severely malnutrition, like, nourished?

Or like, if you're not eating the right foods, can that play into that in toxins?

Like, does it have to be, like, a lot of poison?

Like, how.

What's your view of that?

Because I feel like there are people that still can't grasp that, and they think we're being poisoned, and that's how.

Why people have certain symptoms.

Yeah.

And I also truly understand that our exposure to toxins will also change our.

Our biochemistry to the point that if we now are running symptoms, it can be much more difficult to get back into that harmonious state.

Because it's almost like our.

Our exposure to toxins could be compromising our terrain.

Right.

How much we.

Our resiliency, so to speak, or our stamina.

And I don't think anybody within the German new medicine community is arguing about that.

But is it the root cause?

Right.

That's where we have to differentiate, and that's where we have to play detective and really understand, for example, if we're all still living in the same home, and this home has mold exposure, but only one person is running, maybe indigestion issues.

Is.

Is it the mold, or is that person experiencing a conflict and now having a biological adaptation?

So I think we have to look at it from that lens.

But you're Right.

That's definitely a misconception that the outside world has, that we don't believe in toxins.

It was so funny.

Somebody once said about me, I heard this through the grapevine, that someone said behind my back, oh, oh, she doesn't believe in poisoning.

She thinks if we all swallow a bunch of bleach that it's, it's a conflict.

And then I kind of laughed because I thought, well, you probably would have to be kind of conflicted to even swallow bleach.

So I was like, maybe I would actually think that it's a conflict.

But that's, you know, but that's a completely different story.

If you and I all sat around the table and drank a bunch of bleach, we would all have a reaction toward that.

Right.

So it's really important to look at it through that lens and perception.

Perception can create so much conflicts.

You know, I have worked with individuals who really got on this train of believing in the vaccine shedding.

And they were getting so many skin programs, so much separation and also in the dermis, so many attack conflicts because any time they would be around someone and discover that, oh, they've just been vaccinated, they would break out in hives.

I want to separate.

Or they would breakout in a dermis program.

Right.

That's like the same program that creates melanoma, which is all about, I'm feeling attacked.

Yeah.

So I think, yeah, you know, we have to tread a really line, a really strong line of gnosis and understanding with that.

Yeah, this is a good segue into this one thing that I definitely have conversations with people.

So for instance, 20, 20, 2021 happened.

Some people went, you know, f this, I'm not getting a vaccine.

But then there's some people who did for certain reasons.

And then afterwards they realized, you know, how shady things were, they kind of had their own awakening around this weird incestuous relationship between media and government and allopathy and the scientific establishment.

But here they are, they got the vaccine.

They're, they're seemingly healthy.

And then you have people who are like, well, I can't be with someone who, you know, got vaccinated.

So is that like, you don't think, do you think there's any truth to that?

Or is it all from a conflict based state, like you're fine if someone got the vaccine and you didn't, like, you can date them.

Is it based on your perception alone?

Or do you think there could potentially be something that was in the vaccine that could be causing something?

Because Again, this is like a.

Still a mystery.

I'm not saying you have the answers, but I know people were having this kind of conversation, and I noticed the fear, like, oh, my God, I really like this guy.

But you know what I mean?

Yeah.

And the truth is, we don't know for certain.

Okay.

But from what we know, I mean, the Bigglesons have done such great studies on this.

There has been so many doctors that have spoken out about, you know, if we haven't isolated a virus and we know that we can't catch anything through contagion, it might be quite difficult to, you know, have a vaccine that sort of sheds onto the other person.

And I think that we also have to be.

We also have to be inclusive within this community, because I really do believe that our souls go through an evolution and that awakening is an evolutionary process.

And I know many people who were even triple vaccinated with the COVID vaccine who have since changed their mind and studied GNM and want to learn this work.

And why would we not open our arms to that?

Because it's important that we also not demonize a whole community of people.

And it's, again, a superiority thing.

I'm better than you for the decision that I made.

We have to understand that the decision that we made was to hold the flame, to walk a new path and to welcome others on that path.

Okay.

We're just maybe the first trailblazers to show others that there is a different way.

And so if we walked that path first, why wouldn't we welcome them?

And now to sort of demonize it and say, oh, I think you could be shedding on me, when really there is no fundamental proof of that.

Okay.

And it would just create more conflicts for those people to now not want to go this direction.

Right.

That could be a whole conflict within itself of, oh, I went through this experience of getting vaccinated during COVID because I believed that was the right thing to do.

And now I'm discovering all this new information, and now I'm really having an existential crisis of, what have I done?

And by the way, I see mothers in my courses all the time that think, I shouldn't have circumcised my child.

I shouldn't have vaccinated my kid as a baby.

But we cannot turn back the time.

Ultimately, we have to sort of come to the gnosis as well, that we have our own individual destiny.

And can we also accept the fact that this is the destiny of those that are walking this path?

And if we're so steadfast in our own.

We have to know all roads lead home.

Anyway, everyone's going to come to the truth as it is anyway.

Yeah, this was the issue that I was having, you know, Post let's say 2021, 2022, like all the shaming that was happening for people that chose to get the vaccine or even the documentaries, like, oh well, you got it.

This is what's going to happen to you and in five years everyone's going to be dead.

And like, I'm like, what benefit does this do to someone?

Especially when you look at things through the GNM lens.

Like, let's say you're one of these people who made the decision at the time for whatever reason to get the COVID vaccine.

And then you realize, maybe I shouldn't have done that.

And then you come across these documentaries, like they're very likely they're going to cause a conflict, you know, especially if you're new in this path.

And it's like, what have I done to myself?

You know, so yeah, it's important to have this conversation and the power of perception and the power of the psyche and that like, you know, we can evolve, we can grow, we can look things from, look at things from a greater lens as opposed to, I made this one decision and now I'm.

Yeah, it's curious because, you know, there are, I guess people who are sharing knowledge and information and studies on the spirit, potential spiritual consequences of this vaccine.

For example, Thomas Meyer, who talks about the spiritual consequences of the vaccine, people having these existential dread and feeling empty and soulless, etc.

You know, so I'm also curious like.

What role that potentially Rudolf Steiner spoke about that.

You know, I'm a big fan of Rudolf Steiner's work.

I, a few years ago even traveled to the Gotianum in Basel, Switzerland to visit what he had built over there.

And he also said the same thing, you know, there will be a vaccine and that will remove the soul.

And he also said that viruses don't exist outside the body.

And he also talked about when you have symptoms in the body that they're sort of correlated to these sort of entities.

And when you think about it from the GNM perspective, right, when you're in conflict activity, you're ruminating about the conflict and it's almost like these thoughts, they carry weight.

They're almost like a.

Like how he explained, you could almost see them, your triggers, these thoughts that come over you, this endless tailspace been rumination that you go on as this Sort of spiritual entity that overcomes you when you get into that fight or flight mode.

So, you know, there are definitely many philosophers who have predicted and created prophecies on the era of time that we're living now.

But within our community, you know, like I said, if the truth is boundless, what is ultimately boundless?

The most boundless thing that we have is love.

And I truly believe that love is embedded in the fabric of our biology.

It takes an act of love for us to come onto this earth.

And so within that, you know, in our community, if we're not embodying love, are we really embodying the truth?

And if all we're trying to do is make sense of the nightmare, we never actually awaken from it.

And this is the kind of hamster wheel that I think people can get stuck in of information overload.

I need to research this, and I need to do that, and I need to know this.

It's interesting because from the family systems perspective, it means that you're searching for your father.

If you're searching for the answers, constantly questioning everything, you can be so sure you'll never find it.

You will never find that.

But if you come back to the body, that is the act of coming back to the mother.

Right?

If truth is boundless, the most boundless love we have is what?

Mother's love.

A mother's love.

Exactly.

So if you can't come to that, it's because you can't take your mother.

Your mother is the first person you relate to.

Your relationship with life is in direct correlation to her.

Right?

So your ability to love, how deep you can go in a relationship, is in direct mirror to your relationship with your mother.

How much can you take from her?

How deep is that boundless love between you and her?

And if you reject that, that's rejecting that first ever primal force that you have.

And I notice that a lot within the truther community, it's like, oh, you're talking about all these things, and you studied that, and that's wonderful, and that's so fantastic for you.

But may I ask, like, do you go after your dreams?

Like, do you tell the person that you love that you love them?

Do you have an amazing relationship with your family?

Like, if you're not learning this stuff to have an incredible life, what is the point?

Speaking our language?

Like, what is.

Honestly, I don't understand what the point is.

Well, and even too, back to what you said, Joel.

Like, you know, the.

The book about, like, Thomas Meyer's book about the spiritual consequences like, sure, you can read that.

And then what?

Stay in a victim state.

Okay.

That's it.

There's nothing left for me.

I'm a soulless.

Yeah.

And I haven't read the book, so I don't know if the book is victimy in that sense.

I think it's provided.

Yeah.

I'm not saying it's a victim.

I'm saying if someone just like someone coming across a documentary about what's in the vaccine versus coming across a book that says that there are consequences spiritually of this.

Sure, maybe there is.

But, like, how does it benefit the individual to then adopt that as their primary belief system going through life?

Like, oh, I made this decision.

Like, there's nothing left for me.

I'm screwed.

I'm gonna have health issues.

I'm not gonna find love.

You know what I mean?

Yep.

I agree.

So I love.

I love what you shared, Natasha.

And it's like, what do we value more than anything else, if not our own life and if not our own potential?

And if that isn't our number one and primordial value, then what is the point of anything?

You know?

And it just seems like this specific, I guess, group or archetype that we're speaking into that just caught in this battle, this looping of this battle we need to fight.

And it's almost like they're trapped there.

And like this trauma response, even even though seemingly the threat has dissipated a little bit, it's like, we must defend, we must fight.

And I don't have the time or the bandwidth to put towards living out my dream, my desires, fulfilling myself on a deeper level because there's too much of a threat.

Yeah.

And I think it's also, you know, shifting from questioning to wonder, I think is really helpful because if I question something I'm looking for, the answer I'm seeking is also an external act of versus if I'm in a state of wonder, that's sort of my natural childlike state.

I wonder about something, and I allow whatever is in association with that to be revealed.

You know, and if you can stay in that of just the wondering, I think that's where every sort of creative genius is created.

I mean, Dr. Hamer, he was in a state of wonder.

He lost his son, developed testicular cancer, and he wondered about the correlation and therefore went on a journey of discovery in relation to that.

And so if you just stay in the questioning of it, I don't think you ever get there.

Yeah, yeah.

From a mythological perspective, like, if you read, like, ancient Fairy tales and the stories and the myths.

Like, it's always the younger sibling who is in the state of wonder.

Like, the first two are rigid.

They got really rigid ways of solving things.

I'm going to defend my father.

I will, you know, retrieve the gold.

I will, whatever it might be.

Then the youngest one, who's often perceived as the one who's a bit like a floozy, like not really connected to reality a little bit, you know, that one then comes in after the first two have failed.

And with this wonder, with this curiosity, with this open questioning solves the problem.

And I think we all need to get in touch with this youngest aspect of ourselves that can bring in unconventional solutions to modern day problems for our own lives.

In that sense.

Yeah.

That's so interesting.

I'm the youngest child, so maybe I.

We're all the young.

Me too.

We all are.

All.

Yeah.

Oh, there we go.

Okay.

Yeah.

Well, and in Hellinger's work, you know, it's.

It's also, it's a balance because Hellinger always asks, what's the difference between a child and an adult?

What is.

Yeah.

So the child is innocent.

Yeah.

A child is always pure and a child can do no wrong.

And if I, if I'm giving within the order of love, within the family system and I'm a parent, I give love to my child without expecting anything in return.

But what makes an adult is guilt.

Yeah.

But there's a caveat there too, because it's important to also face that, because that guilt is responsibility.

So an adult has responsibility and has to take accountability.

And so Hellinger would talk about the importance of when a new family is starting.

Like when you're entering a relationship, is to take on guilt.

Yeah.

So somebody who remains in child love, which is, you could say in gnm, might be a maturity stop.

Or it might be that person who is Peter Pan who just never grows up, never settles down.

It's because they need to stay in that innocent innocence.

Yeah.

They don't want to enter into the field of, oh, what might it mean to face guilt?

Whereas adult love recognizes that they're.

The stakes are higher.

So, you know, the first thing is if, when we're in union, a man and a woman come together, the first direction is sexuality.

Yeah.

So the female risks her life every time she offers herself through her sexuality to a man.

So that's the first stake of guilt.

Right.

If we, if two people cross from platonic to now romantic, now the stakes are a little bit higher.

And then you raise the Bar commitment.

Yeah.

If I am with you, if I marry you.

This is why Hellinger said marriage was so important.

Yeah.

If I marry you, if I declare my love to you in front of our family tribe, and I commit to you now, my stakes are a little bit higher.

And then ultimately, what's the ultimate stake is now if we build a legacy together, you and I play God, and we create a family.

And so he would say that there's actually a beauty in moving from innocence to.

To guilt, because if you stay in that childlike love, you just repeat patterns from your family, and you never actually get to building and creating something and creating a new family.

And if you go into the guilt and you allow yourself to face that guilt, what does it feel like to hold all this weight within a relationship?

You actually create a very strong foundation.

So it's almost that within this sort of path, we have to walk that balance between, yes, the purity and the innocence, but also understanding what is the weight of responsibility and how can I take that accountability?

We have to, like, walk that really fine dance.

Yeah.

Can you.

Can you speak more into the context of guilt?

I understand the responsibility aspect, but uncertain on the guilt.

Okay.

So, you know, if you're.

If you're looking at that example between a parent and a child, it means I give to my child without expecting anything in return.

But do we feel that way as children?

Not really, because we kind of feel an obligation to our parents.

Like, we can't.

We don't feel like we could just take, take, take, take, take from our parents.

Maybe you're like me and you have a single mom, and you have to feel a little guilty because she doesn't have a partner.

I need to be there for.

For her.

You know, you had asked him, O says has his mom living with him.

We all have this sense of guilt when it comes to the love of our parents.

It's a little bit of an obligation, and we have to face that guilt.

Yeah.

In order to have a healthy, solid relationship.

So if I can face the guilt with my mother, I can also take her in full.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Well, I mean, it seems to me like embracing the guild kind of brings more balance to the relationship as well, on a hierarchical level.

Like, but when you.

When.

When you embrace that guilt, it's no longer I'm just underneath you and just taking and receiving constantly.

It's like, I'm coming up to your level.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I think also just hearing this is making me think.

It's also like having a clear understanding of your values and living according to them.

And then what if you don't live according to them?

That's where I feel like the guilt will come up.

Like, for instance, I love my mother.

I want to be close to her in these final however many years of her life.

That's important to me.

But if I don't, let's say I disrespect her or I'm like, f my mom today.

You know what I mean?

Like, just whatever.

Like there'd be.

There's going to be something happening within me that I have to navigate and deal with around that.

You know what I mean?

Yeah, that makes sense.

Absolutely.

It makes sense.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So we planted the seed early on about, you know, raising kids with GNM.

And like, GNM's coming more into the main stage, in the main fray.

Obviously, parents and families are adopting this.

And you're right.

When you come into this new special knowledge, you can be very rigid in your approach and very cautious and not wanting to screw anything up, not wanting to create conflicts, etc.

So what's your advice, I guess, to parents bringing GNM into the household and wanting to raise their kids with this system?

I think the most important thing is to allow your child to have their own discovery and their own unique relationship with it, because ultimately it's about them having a real language of communication with their body, and that's first and foremost paramount.

So if they can have their own discovery through their own symptoms, and you can just be the facilitator of that.

So my mother would say to me when I had something come up, oh, what were you just thinking about?

Or what did you just experience?

And of course she knew because she knew the conflict nature.

And she would see me have something and she would look at me and think, oh, that makes perfect sense.

I understand it.

But it's no good if she understands it.

She has to allow me to form that connection.

So she would have, you know, these conversations with me where we would sit and connect the dots together.

And then when I was older, she would keep the books out and I could then look it up myself.

And it was so funny because at the time she was also having all these educators that would come in.

And I remember I got kind of like snarky in my teens when one of the.

One of the teachers came in and talked about lung cancer and said, oh, it's not that you smoke.

You're going to get lung cancer.

And so I. I very jokingly said, oh, does this mean I Can like, mom, does this mean I can smoke all the cigarettes that I want to smoke?

Is that what you're saying?

And then the teacher was like, well, I really wouldn't advise that you do that because I think that's still not good for you.

But it's not going to give you lung cancer if you do.

You still have to have the conflict.

So of course I had my own way of relating to the work.

And I also never learned it from a book.

I never studied it actually until maybe like my mid-20s.

Then I thought, oh, I'll do a course that sounds fun.

But otherwise it was all just self taught through my own experience.

And I think that's the best way you learn anything because that's the way I discovered the truth for myself.

And I connected the dots myself and I said, oh yeah, that's what it is.

But another thing I think is important to mention is this femininity stuff about the cycle and constellations that's much more complex.

My mom never spoke to me about things like that.

And I think that was really good because that's, you know, the sexual conflicts and the nuances, those are very kind of the advanced psychological.

Yeah.

Codifications.

And you don't want to be overwhelming, you know, like a young child with that, you know, sometimes as mom to me, and they're like, you know, oh, my daughter is getting her period and it's this.

And I say like, well then just welcome it.

Don't think about, oh, she got it at that age, that's going to mean this.

And oh, she's, she's having period pain.

That means she's in a sexual conflict.

What can I do?

Like, you need to, you know, be very mindful about that.

Yeah.

I say the same thing even about like complex psychological principles.

Like, you don't want to throw that on a child.

Like, you know, they're still developing, they're still learning how to live and like.

Even though it still was thrown.

Yeah, no, I get it.

But I'm just saying that like, you got to be mindful with how specific, how detailed because like I feel like even in those instances you might be able, you might cause too much information could potentially cause conflicts in a child.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah.

And you don't have, I don't think you have the maturity to fully understand it yet at that level.

So I think, I think I remember like when I went through my first cycle, my mom, you know, had made like my favorite dinner and said like, oh, you could have a sip of my wine.

Or something because you're a woman now.

She did something kind of sweet and funny like that, but she never kind of harped on, you know, symptoms or anything like that in relation to that.

Actually, we didn't even really discuss it much.

But when it came to, you know, my femininity, she gave me the book, the Mary Magdalene manuscript, when I was like 14 years old.

And it's a beautiful book, by the way.

It's a channeled material all about Yeshua and Mary Magdalene and the journey of sacred union.

So she never talked to me about anything that was just like, here you go.

That's union.

And that's what it means to be a woman.

And so I had.

I know, I loved the book, but also that was a lot to take in at just 14 years old.

Like, that was a lot of pressure.

Oh, this is union.

And, you know, my femininity and my grace and it's important and it's precious and I treasure it.

So that was kind of also, you know, funny.

She kind of taught it to me that way.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

So I have a question.

We touched on it before we pressed record.

We recently had an episode with Jenna McClelland and we were going deep into the circumcision issue.

And I would love to hear your thoughts on circumcision via the GNM lens and the potential impact that it has.

Yeah.

And from what I saw, she explained so beautifully, by the way, so intelligently, and I think every mother should listen to it if they're debating what their decision is.

Absolutely right.

Like that is a conflict.

A DHS is that sudden, dramatic, acute, unexpected event.

If you, if you rip a baby from a mother's arms and you put them in this state, it's, you know, for lack of a better word, genital mutilation.

Of course it's going to be a conflict.

And when we look at, you know, the, the brain and the temporal lobe at the biological level, we have what's called the alpha male.

The alpha male.

Alpha just means first he is the unconflicted male.

And what is your ultimate territory as a man is of course, this vital organ, this precious, precious life giving organ of yours.

It's very sacred.

So if I go and chop it off now and you perceive that conflict, it's kind of this version of castration, creates the beta.

So now you have a whole generation of beta males.

Right.

I don't think from what I know, I have not seen from the educators that I work with who are reading the brain scans, they have not seen an unconflicted male who is circumcised.

Right.

And actually that's usually the first territorial loss.

Now, it has also been seen as a separation conflict.

Right.

I want to separate from this.

It is semi dependent on how the psyche perceives it.

And then of course you would factor in, at what age is the boy being circumcised?

You know, would we see a difference in a baby being circumcised versus an 8 year old going under a surgical circumcision or something like that?

So we might notice a difference in how the DHS has been recognized.

But I think what's important to notice is that beta men have a natural hierarchy.

You know, this hierarchy structure is what makes the, the leading man for the ones that follow.

So if you circumcise a whole flu, a whole generation of men, and you create these betas, of course they're going to follow the system because it's almost the biological castration that makes them designed to do exactly that.

Well said.

Yeah, it's pretty wild.

So just I guess to kind of close the thread, what are the recommendations from a GNM perspective, you know, to I guess mitigate or resolve this conflict?

That happens very early on.

Yeah.

And we would say with constellations.

Right.

It's not necessarily that you want to resolve them because they are the blueprint of your personality.

They are making you who you are meant to become.

There's also gifts, you know, there's nothing, there's nothing wrong with it.

Right.

And that's when now we need to also be mindful, like as a woman in front of a bunch of men, you know, being mindful.

If I'm like harping on circumcision, depending on the men I'm around, that could be a conflict for them being like, oh my gosh, this woman is saying there's something wrong with me and I've gone through this experience.

And of course our biology carries memory.

Like, I don't think that biologically and psychologically and spiritually that a man who's undergone this forgets it.

It's probably embedded deep within your system as severe trauma.

Right.

Even just to be ripped from your mother is trauma.

So, you know, be aware as you're sort of bringing about these discussions.

Obviously you two and anybody who's listening is very conscious and aware.

So they're probably not perceiving it as triggering, but it would be very triggering.

And I think that's why it would be so great if more men like you two speaking out about it, it's really great for a man to other men speak on this and for also women as mothers who are making this decision to speak on it.

And you know, Hellinger, in the family system, he sort of said that society has created beta males, you know, so it's because of absentee fathers, because society had wars and put men in the job force and they took men out of the family home.

And so then therefore the mother had to adopt the role and become more masculine.

And therefore we lost the true masculinity within the upcoming generation.

So he blames society and the powers that be for creating an environment where, where this was all sort of fodder.

And then if you factor in, you know, the castration of males and how we introduced that, that's even just a more tidbit of, oh, we don't have these roles anymore.

We don't have the masculine positions that we would have had in our origin in nature.

It's just not accessible to us anymore.

And how do we return to that?

Yeah, I want to ask you this too about the circumcision thing.

In the episode with Jenna.

We talk about, we talked about like the old, old, old school rabbi, my mom, my mom, my mom, Nadis.

I don't know when the time period was, maybe like 1100 or something.

And that the reasoning that this was codified into Jewish law initially, at least from him is that he wanted to curb like sexual male sexuality and pleasure, etc, but through a GM lens.

Because I feel like I've read before that sure, that's was the initial reasoning behind it.

But then I find that being circumcised can cause more sexual perversion or sexual addiction.

And like, do you see that through the GNM lens?

Does it need to be like other conflicts associated with that initial conflict or even just that alone can impact a child later on in life.

Yeah, well, you can have sort of like a sexual self devaluation.

Right.

But let's look at that territorial loss.

Remember, the territorial loss conflict in the male causes testosterone to go down, so he loses testosterone and he goes into estrogen, so he becomes more feminized.

Yeah.

And now let's say even if I have listened to so many podcasts where men later actually even believe that their, the organ itself has been compromised through circumcision and now they have all this self devaluation around even how their penis might look or how they might perform.

Right.

And if you think about the function of the foreskin, it's also the sensitivity.

It's also you Know, creating more sensitivity during intercourse so you can have a slew of conflicts that now present itself.

But the feminized man, the territorial loss, who experiences that territorial loss, Right.

He is that Casanova.

Yeah.

So now what solves my problem?

If I feel sexually devalued, I can have this amazing constellation, this amazing gift that's going to motivate me to be more outwardly sexual, to have more sexual partners, so I can resolve the sexual self devaluation or the rejection, you know, that I went through.

And even in the family systems framework, we say that the.

The man who has sexual problems, he can't take his mother, okay?

He can't honor the female that way.

He can't understand the truth of what sexuality is because he can't take his mother.

And if you look at circumcision, who does it to you?

Who hands over the baby?

Your mother does.

Right.

So of course it can create this, like, subconscious conflict with your mother.

And now you might have, you know, sexual distortion, or you might be seeking to overly prove yourself sexually because you have this self devaluation.

So now you're overcompensating for that.

So it's going to be different depending on the man and depending on the way his psyche perceived it.

But generally we could say that.

Yeah.

Thanks for sharing that.

Yeah.

So it's interesting.

So interesting.

It is so interesting.

And it's interesting.

Like, you know, it's.

It's kind of like a.

It's.

It's a big statement, you know, in terms of indicating that there's gifts to something so traumatic, such as circumcision or whatever it might be.

And I'm just, I wonder from your perspective, like, how this connects in a more esoteric level from like, the path our soul chooses, like maybe even like before this place.

Yeah.

And, you know, that's what I was thinking too, you know, for a mother.

We talked about this on the last podcast.

For a mother to hand over her baby, she already knows.

That's that instinct, that's that primal nature of the mother that goes, oh, it's horrible to, to give my baby over and watch him being circumcised and see him cry and in this distress, but we do it anyway.

And I think that's also where we lose sight of our truth.

We replace love with reason.

Right.

A mother's love, like I spoke about, she would kill for her child.

She would never put her child in the hands of danger.

And yet, why do we have this phenomenon of mothers just having babies and handing it over to the powers that be.

And I think it's because we close the door on love so often and we replace it with reason.

Oh, you know, I did that because that's what I knew.

Well, that's what I was told to do at the time.

And.

And I was told that my baby was gonna have a higher potential of.

Right.

Infection or this or that if I didn't circumcise him.

Or, by the way, the other thing that they're told is, I've heard this too.

Psychologically, you should do what your father has, otherwise the kid's gonna get conflicts if the father circumflex all these things.

Right.

But what we.

Every time we go back on that primal instinct, that boundlessness, that loving nature that we have, we close the door on that too.

So spiritually, I think we lose the truth of who we are and then we replace it with reason, totally negating the fact that love is the only reason.

That's like the only fundamental reason we have of being here.

And so I think spiritually, we're dealing with that sort of level of spiritual warfare where we're denying ourselves the essence of the truth of who we are over and over and over again.

And by the way, I'm not perfect.

I think I do it too.

Not that extreme that I would hand over, but I think.

I think we all do that to some extent.

So we.

We have compassion for it.

Well, it's also so tribal.

There's, you know, there's influence from the tribe, you know, to do a thing, to go along, to get along.

Your.

Your child won't be considered Jewish if they don't have this done.

I mean, there's the religious component that plays into it, which we've.

We've chatted about before in the podcast.

Yeah.

And I mean, that's, again, that's the.

That's the structure that we've created in society through religion.

Right.

That's that same dogmatic structure that we've created where we are.

We are so close to the truth.

We are so close to coming into absolute connection with our divinity, and then we put in all these conditions on it.

And so, yeah, if I could create beta males, if I wanted to control society through a religion, through rules and requirements and conditions, and then I go and biologically castrate a male, that would be helpful too.

And then what happens to the male, by the way, it's also mirroring the female.

So we're also responding as females to a culture where we have more feminine men is also going to create More masculinization in women.

Right.

So it's going to parallel and create this ultimate dichotomy.

And I think that's kind of also what we're dealing with right now.

Yeah.

The question seems to be begging for me in the ether.

What is love?

To me, it's just truth.

It's liberation.

I think love is salvation's key, and I think it's all there is.

There's something I have been looking at recently that just so interesting and because I was so artsy, you know, I love.

I love to look at things.

But there is this performance artist, his name's Alvin Lussier, and he sits in a room and he says one phrase.

And he says, like, I'm sitting in a room different from the one you are in.

Yeah.

And then he records it on his tape recorder.

I'm sitting in a room different from the one you are in.

And he allows the sound to echo into the room, and then he re.

Records it, and then he plays it back, and then he records that, and then he plays it back, and then he records that.

And as he keeps looping the phrase over and over and over and over again, the sound, the harmony begins to sound like a singing bowl.

Like you can't even hear the words.

It's completely unintelligible.

It's just one vibration now.

Right.

And that is ultimately how oneness or love or divinity or God, whatever you want to call it, that's how it works.

You have that one original sound that nada brahma.

Everything is sound in on itself.

And what is making the sound too, is the container it's being held in.

The recording plays off the container of the room, and it's bouncing off its container to create one harmonic resonance.

And that's kind of what we're doing.

And it's what we're doing biologically, too.

Right.

Because ultimately, I am not my body.

I am beyond this.

But this container that I am in is exuding my ultimate resonance, my one unique sound that's connected with the oneness of the universe.

And so that is what love is to me.

It's the truth.

It's that one sound that unites us all.

And I think what we're playing with here, and that's sort of what I've been going into lately, what we're playing with here is how much can we embody the truth of that?

And if we go astray.

Yeah.

How can we come back again and return to it again and again and again and again and again?

Beautiful.

Yeah, yeah.

Listen to it, by the way, if you have a listen.

Elvin Lucier, was it?

Alvin Lucier?

Yeah.

And what's so interesting about it too, is he has a stutter.

So, like, one of the things that inspired him to do this performance art is that he can't speak.

He has a stutter himself.

Right.

Which is a conflict too.

So now he's creating this work of art to find what is my true sound, what is my true resonance.

And for me, I worked a lot with sound because I work a lot with women's health.

And the cervix is connected to.

To.

To the larynx.

Right.

If you're in embryo, your.

Your cervix and your reproductive organs are going in a long, growing in tandem with the larynx, with your voice.

It's all growing together.

So when you voice it, when you sing, when you chant, when you connect to your ultimate sound.

But for the female, it's also connecting to the organ of creation.

And that's the.

Even why, when you're in this sacred act of love.

Yeah.

And you're creating life force, you have this sound.

Yeah.

And you know that through the female, the sound that she makes in intercourse will be the same sound that she makes giving birth, whether she inhales or whether she exhales.

So, you know, is.

It's.

I think we're just scratching the surface on what we know.

Yeah.

Awesome.

Such a great conversation.

Yeah, yeah, it is.

It's.

It's a brilliant conversation.

And it's just so wide ranging, yet also so coherent through these different kind of discussions we're having.

All kind of feeds the same vessel.

I absolutely love the concept and the idea that every single human being born has their own unique sound, their own unique vibration, their own unique resonance.

And what is there to do if not to own that and embody that and come into that and share that, you know, like, that's.

That's it.

And that's our destiny that you talk about so much, Joel.

It's like kismet.

In German, we say Schicksal is here.

It's your ultimate destiny.

And what I've been sort of playing with because I've been, you know, in 2025, I think, has just been for so many of us.

Oh, my gosh, it's been such an intense year.

I almost feel like I've been in a dreamlike state throughout this whole year because so much has happened so quickly and so much momentum has been gained as well in such a short amount of time.

And so I'VE been sort of playing with an art series that I've been working on too.

It's like, do we have a destiny?

Do we?

Yes, I do believe we do.

But do we have a free will or is it all just destiny?

I don't know.

I'm sort of playing between the two lately.

Yeah, well, I mean, I think, I think it's both.

And I think our destiny is always calling to us, but our destiny is asking of us to develop the courage to embrace it.

And so much of the primordial challenge is, you know, to, to the ancients, life was in two adventures.

The first adventure was survival.

It's being born into a family system, being born into a unit, needing to survive, needing to fit in.

Then the second adventure is when we break away from that family unit and there's a deeper calling, there's a deeper yearning for who am I?

What am I really here for?

What are the gifts?

We embrace self revelation.

We embrace the mystery, so to speak.

You know, but not many people, not everyone takes that second adventure.

You know, so many people just live out their lives on that first adventure, never questioning the status quo, purely being survival based.

And so it's like we have to have the courage to answer the call of our destiny amongst, in, in our lives.

And hearkening back to what we discussed earlier, it's like, do we value that and can we remember that why we really here?

That we all have unique reason, unique gift, unique purpose.

And I think with that remembrance comes the embrace of destiny ultimately.

And it doesn't seem from where I'm standing that like everyone takes that path.

No, I don't think everybody does.

And I think everybody sort of carries their unique role within it.

Because, you know, part of the reason why I didn't want to do GNM and I was telling my mother, not only am I paranoid of like, oh my God, the powers that.

Thank you me, who's gonna come after me if I do this, but I also said to her, I don't know where I fit.

Like I love all these things and I'm, I'm artistic and I love sound and I sing and I dance and, and I just know this work.

You know, I don't, I don't know how I meant to work with people one on one or I don't know how I meant to educate on this.

I don't think I, I don't think I'm anything.

And Melissa, actually, she was the one who's like, yeah, yeah, you need to teach.

Are you kidding me?

Like, you have such a unique perspective.

Why wouldn't you teach?

But I think it took me kind of a little bit to find my footing of like, I don't really know that I have a role to play here.

But then as I sort of expanded it, then I thought, yeah, you don't.

We also don't have to be one thing anymore.

I think that's kind of old school generation, that we have to just be one thing.

I don't think so.

And teach one thing.

I don't.

I don't know.

Yeah.

And it doesn't matter how many people have taught G and M, no one's going to communicate it and translate it the way that you do and the way that you can with the unique resonance that you have and who knows who that might hit in a different capacity that other people's voices might not be able to get through to, you know, and that's what we, we're all being called to embrace is the uniqueness that we can bring to anything.

Yeah.

Which is interesting because I'm curious what you have to say on this, that it seems like the first generation gnomers, the ones that maybe studied directly with Hummer, they're not fans of like the second or third generation people that are maybe not just one thing, like just following the, the dogma.

I don't want to say dogma, but just like what Hammer said and like you, you cannot integrate any other system or modality within GM to support a person.

Like, like, it just seems like there's like even within the GNM community there is infighting and different views on who even can state claim to this knowledge and who is even worthy to share this knowledge.

And I think that maybe part of that prevents more people maybe being even open to it, because even within the community there seems to be, you know, battles going on.

Yeah.

And a lot of that has to do with the history of how the work was released.

You know, Hammer went through immense persecution and he was exiled and he, you know, he really went through a lot to get this work out there.

And so there were many people along the way who came to him who wanted to expand this work but almost take credit for it.

So I think that's where a lot of it started is all these people who saw him as a pioneer but wanted to release it in their own way.

And so the first one who was very territorial over it was Hammer himself, because one of his biggest fears was that somebody else would take credit for his work.

And that's what he didn't want to do.

And he also feared that, like, we in the community controlled opposition that we talk about.

He feared that a lot, too, controlled opposition, that somebody who was, you know, connected to the powers that be would come in as an educator and then sort of manipulate the work so that the truth of it never got out.

So there were many people who came to him along the way that said, I want to teach this here or I want to write this book, or I want to do that on your findings.

And he said, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.

I am not in approval of that.

So he sort of started this.

And then he took certain people under his wing and said, I will teach you.

I will teach you.

Supposedly there were other teachers, like Dr. Claude Sabah, who wanted to merge the family system in it.

And Hammer said, no, I don't want that because I want this to be recognized by the medical community.

And I can't prove, you know, the family stuff so much.

So there was moments where he butted heads.

And then everybody within that first generation who did take on the work, who did work with Hammer and then who did become educators, they also face a lot of persecution and a lot of adversity.

So then they were territorial over the work, thinking, no, you can't just willy nilly, you know, talk about this.

I remember my mom, when she would have educators over, she'd be like, looking at, like, who was in the room and what was going on, and no filming and no recording.

Like, I don't think my mom could have ever imagined a day where people would have been talking about this on a podcast or, like, having a live and just like, going on Instagram and saying, oh, you know, a virus has never been isolated and cancer is a normal biological adaptation.

That was just beyond what she could fathom at the time.

So it did sort of create this culture, this sort of political narrative within the GNM community of, like, how are we meant to present this?

And.

And how do we be respectful?

But ultimately it is our biology.

So you just live it through your integration of it through just understanding nature, and it can be as simple as that.

And.

And if the individual.

Yeah.

Has their own unique conflicts based off their individual psyche, that means you have to approach that individual in their way.

Okay.

So you do have to get creative when you know this work well, because it doesn't mean that, you know, Hammer focused on biological solutions, but you have to get into that person's psyche and think what's going to be the solution for them, you know.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, but listen, you could do a whole podcast on the history of, you know, of the unique, eccentric nature.

I mean, I'd love to.

I mean, we have our little G M series here at Here for the Truth.

I mean, this is what, episode nine on the subject.

Yeah.

And I feel.

I feel proud that we know we've been a platform that has helped kind of share this information as well, you know, And I know there are people in our community that first heard about G M from our first episode with Melissa in 2021.

Yeah.

And have gone on to study it.

So it's really cool.

And that's what draws people to our community, even in Friends of the Truth, because we're into a lot of these different subjects and different realms of health and that I think are cutting edge.

And that's consistency.

Right.

Like my mom 20 years ago.

Okay.

She's been doing this a long time.

Do you think anybody cared?

No.

But she opened up her house anyway.

She brought in educators anyway.

She bought books for people and said, please read this.

Anyway.

She had people, you know, kind of rolling her eyes at her when they would tell her, oh, I had this cancer diagnosis X, Y and Z.

And she would tell them what it means from the GNM perspective.

But for 20 years, she kept consistent and she held her truth and she stayed steadfast.

And she also kept really consistent in community and still inviting people to events and still bringing in educators that she really looked up to and having them speak about this.

And now, all these years later, gosh, I think we have, like over 100 and something students.

We have each season a new conference.

We have online course modules, you know, and would she have imagined that then?

No, but I think.

Well, I think.

I think that's the answer to what is love?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Show up.

Well, despite no traction, despite no movement, just the genuine love that I have, a resonance with this system of knowledge.

I want to share this.

I want to put out.

Even on the dark days, even when you're digging a tunnel that goes nowhere, you're doing it for the love of it, you know?

Yeah.

That's ultimate devotion.

Right.

We're leading a devotional path, and this is one great mystery.

So we don't have the answers, but we're devoted to that within itself and devoted to the.

Devoted to the truth.

Yeah.

Natasha, is there Definitely devoted.

Yeah.

But is there.

Have Dr. Hamer's, like, main books been translated into English?

And if not, is there, like, an effort to do so?

There are still some books that have not been translated.

They belong to his estate.

And his estate has control over what they are wanting to do with it.

I also think it's like a financial thing.

There's not enough time or resources to be able to do the things that we want to do.

But even like there's so many scans, there's so many brain scans from his data that are sitting in boxes that we don't even have access to that we would like access to.

But you know, I think it's sort of governed by the estate that has power over it.

And also, you know, my mom is studying right now the cranial nerves, which is a whole other scientific chart on the nerves that he did that has not been translated into English.

So we have the main scientific chart of, you know, the human body, but then there's a whole scientific chart that he did on the nerve system as well.

And that's stayed in German.

So my mom is, you know, she's studying that in German right now and she's in the process of, of translating it.

And yeah, there are many books that he wrote that haven't been fully translated either.

And there might even be more material that we don't know about.

But ha himself, by the way, he was super into like ancient civilizations and religion and theology and, and learning about all that.

So he was kind of conscious himself.

I know some people have said like, oh, he didn't bring in this spirituality.

It's like, what do you mean?

This is, I think this is the most sacred spiritual thing one could ever understand is their own body.

I mean, this is all we have.

Yeah, yeah.

I want to ask you this too, because I still keep noticing this online that people think the, the hammer folk focus is an artifact.

How did that go about like for Hummer to, to either showcase that it wasn't an artifact of, you know, the scan.

Yeah.

So he contacted Siemens directly and therefore he asked about it in accordance with the data that he had.

And they came back with a response that it was not an artifact.

Not only that, but you do see them in nature.

Okay.

If you look at the plants around you, you'll see little rings and hammer foci and these target formations.

And I've had first hand experience of working with people who were mainstream medical physicians, even a radiologist.

And she says, I see them all the time, you know, and I think the way in which you prove it, it's very simple.

Right.

When we work with these educators and they're looking at your brain scan, they prove it by saying, oh, I see the target ring formation here and I See that?

That's at the relay of the brain that controls, let's say, the testicles.

And they might ask you, did you have testicular cancer?

And then you say, either yes, I did or no, I didn't.

And in 100% of the cases, when they look at the scan of your brain, they can go through every symptom you have and then ask, ask you, did you personally experience that?

Did you run an adaptation on X, Y and Z organ?

And I've never had somebody who did, who got their brain scan read and said, oh, I didn't have something.

You know, they, in 100% of the cases, they did experience a symptom at that organ level.

Maybe if it was super minute, you might not realize it, but I'd say, isn't that evidence enough?

Isn't that the way we fact check something?

I see something.

You did experience that at the biological level.

So therefore, how can it be an artifact?

And also, if it is an artifact, why would we all have our own unique representations of that artifact?

You know, every time we get our brain scan read, why would we have, you know, it's all like, there's so many stories about the things that they can see just off of that where I wouldn't even need to look at you.

I wouldn't even need to talk to you.

In fact, some of the doctors who are reading them today, when I send clients over, they just email back a chart with, you have this Hummer pill guide and that symptom.

You have this and you have this.

And they've always found it to be right.

The individual.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Natasha, thank you so much for your time here today.

You're so articulate, so coherent when it comes to sharing this knowledge, and we're grateful, and I know our audience definitely is as well.

Is there anything you'd like to share in closing?

And also, where would you like to, I guess, direct our audience in terms of engaging with you further?

Yeah, well, the only thing I'd like to share is I encourage you to experience and learn this work for yourself and integrate it in a way that feels truthful to you.

And I also encourage you to share it with other people because through my sharing of this work, through other people, I have gained community and friendships beyond my wildest dreams.

So your tribe can't find you unless you speak your truth.

So I encourage that as well.

And then if you want to continue, you know, Learning with me, Dr. Melissa Sal and I have, you know, the biological woman.

That's our biannual 11 week deep dive course program where we go into the female body from head to toe.

It sells out every time.

We have our next cohort coming up this October, I believe.

I'm releasing the link today to sign up so you'll be able to have access to sign up for that.

And then, you know, with my love, we didn't even get into that.

But with my love of homeopathy and nature and remedy, I have an amazing course with Maghre Yasmine Christiansen, who's an amazing Heil praktika from Denmark.

She teaches German new medicine in Danish.

She's our Danish teacher.

And we have a great foundational five week course on the basic understanding of G and M and how you can use nature and homeopathy to help support you on your healing journey.

So we have that coming up and then we have.

Gosh, we have the GNM weekend, end of September in Ohio and I know beautiful Sophie Fletcher is going to be joining us.

Sorry I'm not going to be there.

But you ladies will have fun.

Yeah, we're going to miss you.

So we have.

We always.

By the way, I always organize events every season in person because I really, truly believe in the power of communing together live.

So if you follow me, you'll always have access to upcoming events.

And I think I've covered everything for 2025.

Stay tuned.

I know, like, I'm already working on going back to Europe again.

I can't.

I can't tell you how many times in that conversation I wanted to ask you about the bridge between GNM and homeopathy, but I had no idea that you had an interest in homeopathy at all.

But this might need to be a future.

This might need to be a future dedicated episode in that crossover.

Yeah, she and I talked about it because.

Anyways, I mentioned it to you that she had a friend in Denmark that's into it, but I wanted to figure out how we can do a G M. Yeah.

It'S really my love of nature and I'm in my garden all the time and I'm.

I'm making flower essences and you know, it's my devotional practice of prayer that I love when working with the plants and tuning into what feels right for me, what would harmonize with my system and creating my own magical potions and concoctions.

And so I was working with Magla and I asked her whether she would be interested in this tandem because she felt there was a lot of work that needed to be done within the homeopathic community because, you know, some of them are still working with germ theory and all this stuff.

And so we thought we'd create this really beautiful synchronistic tandem together.

Yeah, amazing.

Yeah.

I'm definitely down for like, a future episode, potentially.

Yeah, Well, I mean, I think I feel like both kind of GNM and homeopathy are so pressing within our community at the moment.

You know, like, people are being really drawn to these ideas in a big way.

So I'd love to have that conversation.

Yeah.

Friends of the Truth.

They love flower, flower essences, homeopathy and G and M. It's like the trifecta for our community.

Love it.

Yeah, totally.

Totally.

Yeah.

Natasha, you're amazing.

Everyone else, thank you for listening.

You're asmos.

You're all right.

See you guys later.

Absolutely incredible, man.

Like, just these conversations, just over the course of the time of having these conversations since 2021, to be able to witness not only the way that we've evolved, but the conversations have evolved.

And it's kind of like these discussions that repeat themselves to a certain degree, yet with more nuance, more love, more vitality, and we're all kind of moving and growing together over the course of these, you know, kind of conversations.

Yeah, I mean, I. I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Like, I love seeing growth in action.

I love these conversations.

I feel so blessed.

I feel so honored to.

To have these conversations, to know people like Natasha, and to bring this information to our world and to our audience and to our communities.

Because, you know, we talk about truth, we talk about freedom.

Like, there is such liberation in really understanding the genius behind Dr. Hamer's discoveries and even, in essence, how, you know, this knowledge integrates with other stuff that we talk about.

So it's an honor to have these conversations and to share them with you.

Yeah, man, absolutely.

And it's like with someone like Natasha, you know, it's like everyone talks about healing the world, but it's like to the.

To the ancients, healing the world meant you discovering your gift and healing yourself.

The etymology of to heal is to.

Is to make whole.

Right?

And it's like when you come to wholeness within yourself, when you dig in and that deeper inner calling comes forward, like, that is the only real path to healing the quote unquote world.

So I just love seeing people on fire, on purpose, tapping into their gifts, recognizing the unique thread and story of their life.

To be immersed in this knowledge from.

From such a young age, then to kind of step into it and bear the flag in such a way, Such potent and powerful work.

For sure.

Yeah.

And.

And this is where, this is what health is ultimately like, when you have congruence within yourself, when there's more harmony within you and you're not at war with yourself and your world and the people in your life.

Like, I don't care how much you're a carnivore or a vegan or, you know, running one marathon a year or exercising all day like that shit doesn't matter if you're at war with yourself.

You don't know who you are.

You don't look in the mirror and love and appreciate who you are in the life that you're building for yourself.

It is all secondary.

Yeah, we just said the same word.

It is all secondary.

It is all secondary to cultivating the relationship that you have with yourself.

You know, and that's a conversation which we've been having for a long time, is basically the foundation of everything that we're offering out there.

So, anyway, thank you for listening.

Thank you for being here.

We have so much love and appreciation and respect for you people that really like.

This is such a niche kind of conversation that we're having here.

So again, if you are listening to this, it's like, it's kind of special that you found your way here and we get to have these discussions.

Guys.

Herefor the truth.com forward/episodes.

If you head there, you can sign up to our email list and basically never miss an episode, never miss a conversation.

And we're always firing out incredible knowledge as well in different formats, whether it's through articles or, you know, classes that we're hosting or information about our membership community.

So jump on that email list if you love what we're about, if you're here for the truth, and we'll see you next time.