Narrator [00:00:04]:

Welcome to Supply Chain Now, the voice of global supply chain. Supply Chain Now focuses on the best in the business for our worldwide audience, the people, the technologies, the best practices, and today's critical issues, the challenges, and opportunities. Stay tuned to hear from those making global business happen right here on Supply Chain Now.

Scott W. Luton [00:00:32]:

Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be. Scott Luton and Karin Bursa with you here on Supply Chain Now. Karin, how you doing today?

Karin Bursa [00:00:43]:

I'm doing great. How are you?

Scott W. Luton [00:00:45]:

Wonderful. Temps are cool, it's crisp. Football weather is here. We've just coming off a great trip, which we may touch on later, but life is good right now. Karin, excellent.

Karin Bursa [00:00:57]:

I'm glad to hear that. It's a great day to be in supply chain and I'm happy to be here with you and the supply chain.

Scott W. Luton [00:01:03]:

Now, team, same, same. And you know what? Beyond the two of us and the smartest audience in all of global supply chain, who's tuned in? We've got two rock and roll guests and a great show teed up, timeless show. We're going to be dialing it in once again on the hot topic of freight security, answering questions such as, hey, what are some of the risks you need to know about in this ever evolving dynamic environment? What are some of the critical considerations when it comes to taking a strategic approach, especially to building your supply chain tech stack? What are some of the most important organizational, cultural elements that are most effective when it comes to optimizing freight security? Most effective and getting to be most required. All of that and much, much more. Should be a great show, huh, Karin?

Karin Bursa [00:01:50]:

It really should. I've been, I've been looking forward to this conversation and been paying attention to really some of the freight risk that's going on out there and the increasing theft that's underway. So I can't wait to hear what our panel has to say today.

Scott W. Luton [00:02:06]:

Me, too. You know, this is a kind of a follow up from the last conversation you and I hosted with one of our guests about a month ago. So that went over really well. There's two things, though, folks, two things we want to ask from you, because this one's going to be also a great conversation. So let us know. Number one, let us know what you think. Make sure you tell us where you're tuned in from and what you think about the conversation and the points we're making.

Scott W. Luton [00:02:33]:

And secondly, if you enjoy today's show, and we sure hope you do, be sure to share it with a friend or your network. I'll be glad you did. Okay, Karin, as you share two wonderful guests here today, I want to welcome in our distinguished panel, Richie Daigle, Enterprise Account Executive with Tive, and David Shillingford, Co-founder of Everstream Analytics and Venture Partner at Columbia Capital. Hey. Hey, Richie, welcome back. How you doing?

Richie Daigle [00:03:01]:

Doing well. Good to see you again, Scott.

Scott W. Luton [00:03:03]:

Man, we had a great conversation last time. Karin and Richie. Richie played professional baseball and we just about made it through the hour without talking about supply chains. Karin, there's a lot more, folks. Go check out that episode. And we'll have to have Richie back and take a deep dive into his professional baseball career and back by proper demand as well. David, old friend of the show, great to see you. David Shillingford.

David Shillingford [00:03:28]:

Great to be here, Scott.

Scott W. Luton [00:03:29]:

Appreciate all that you do and especially all the thought leadership you put out there in industry helping to change how business is being done. Okay, well, let's do this. We've got a jam packed conversation, but you all know where we start things. I like to start with a fun warm up question, because no matter what's going on, supply chain, our personal lives or family lives continue every single day, which is a wonderful thing. So, David, you earned a nickname around here a couple of years ago. I think it was a James Bond of global supply chain, and that is high praise, my friend. Now, we've done some homework and we understand you and your family have been living on planes here recently. What's one lesson that all this air travel has either taught you or maybe retaught you?

David Shillingford [00:04:18]:

So, you know, something I've discovered, maybe rediscovered, is a trick, particularly in airports. As I go through the airport, my aim is to try and make one person's day a better day. And it might be the agent at the gate, it might be another passenger, it might be someone who's working in the airport. It might just be. It might be a smile. It might be something I can say to them. And what I've discovered is that in doing that, it makes me more aware of the people around me. It's a better experience and it makes me happier as well.

Scott W. Luton [00:04:52]:

I love that, David. What a wonderful way of starting the conversation, and I need to subscribe to that. A lot of times I'm thinking someone out there as I travel is trying to make my day a little bit worse. But I'm kidding, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. I need to subscribe to David's perspective there. Uh, Richie, that's gonna be tough to beat. But you've got a big life event that I think all of us can relate to. You're in the process of a big family move up there in beautiful, in the beautiful Tennessee mountains.

Scott W. Luton [00:05:19]:

How's that process going?

Richie Daigle [00:05:22]:

It's been a process, and I think I need to borrow a line out of David's book there of try to make someone's day a little bit better. You know, whether it's air travel or moving, like, there's a lot of stress associated with these things. And, um, sometimes you have to take a step back and look at it from a big point of view. We've been on multiple homes. We've been looking for nine months or so, and lots of big roller coaster moments and ups and downs and everything that goes along with that. But we found a place, and now the fun part is starting, which is packing and purging these types of things.

Scott W. Luton [00:06:00]:

First off, congratulations. That's wonderful for your family. And we'll have to get a picture of the new home and all. But I see you're a quick learner, too, because in the preshow, folks, Karin was offering some unsolicited advice about the whole moving process. She was like, purge, purge stuff everywhere. Karin, that's pretty accurate advice, and appreciate you sharing. And also. But you and your family did took on a great trip here recently, which is a bit of a tradition, especially in the mid and north Georgia.

Scott W. Luton [00:06:29]:

Maybe that's the apple picking orchards, especially the place called mercers on the way to Blairsville, Georgia. Tell us about the blue ridge. That's right. Tell us more about that.

Karin Bursa [00:06:38]:

Yeah, so we went to. It had been a couple of years since we had actually gone out and picked the apples. We usually take the easy way and just go through the store, but went out and picked apples. But it has become quite the event. Now you've got taste tables where you can compare the tastes of multiple apples. Hard cider, you know, regular cider. But apple fritters, apple pies, you name it, I think we walked out of there about ten pounds heavier.

Scott W. Luton [00:07:08]:

It's like a scene from Forrest Gump instead of shrimp. Everything apple, everything at merciers. And, folks, if you ever go, I would highly recommend those apple fritters. They are delicious. Great times up in merciers. Well, David, Richie, and Karin, what an outstanding conversation we have here today. So let's start with giving some context. David, Richie, and Karin and David, it's been a while since you've been with us.

Scott W. Luton [00:07:34]:

Really appreciate what you and the team been doing over at Everstream analytics, if you would tell us briefly about your background. Right. But also tell us in a nutshell what you're up to, these dates.

David Shillingford [00:07:47]:

Yeah, sure. Background wise. First crew was in the british army when I last came to the US and had been through a series of startups, generally around risk and analytics. More recently, supply chain. Most recent venture was Everstream analytics, which I stepped back from. I remain an advisor, but I stepped back from that about a year ago and I'm now a venture partner at Columbia Capital.

Scott W. Luton [00:08:14]:

That is outstanding. It's great to see you. Gartner Supply Chain Symposium a few months back and especially appreciate your support of our veterans community, as always. David, Richie, same thing for you. Now, as Karin and I were shared on the front end, you're with us about a month or so ago, had an outstanding conversation where we tackled some baseball, a little bit of supply chain. I'm kidding. We did that vice versa. But Richie, if you would briefly tell us about your background for any of our new listeners and a little bit about what Todd does.

Richie Daigle [00:08:44]:

Yeah, thanks, Scott. Yes, if you go back far enough, as you know, I played baseball for a little while. That was many years ago. Um, since then, uh, been an entrepreneur, worked in the travel industry for a number of years, but for the last five years I've been in supply chain technology and, you know, been with TyB for close to three years now. Tyve is all about raising awareness of shipment location as well as conditions while, while shipments are in transit. And what's cool about Tybalt is the whole company is just bent on this mission to help companies make sure their shipments are arriving on time and in full so that what people hold dear to them and what matters makes it to its end destination. So it's cool being part of a company that has such a laser focus and is providing technology that can make a difference.

Scott W. Luton [00:09:38]:

I bet it's very fulfilling and rewarding as you are changing how business is done. And Corinna, we have an interesting one two punch here between David and Richie, both repeat guests, which we always love. Love that family repeat guests, but what they're doing, what they do, kind of interlapse. I think it's an interesting panel for our audience. Your thoughts there, correct?

Karin Bursa [00:09:58]:

Yeah, I agree. I love the Internet of things and the ability to really monitor what's happening across your network, but also to harness that information for strategic evaluation and to look at the analytics and trends and hopefully some additional predictive capabilities. So, really interested to hear what both Richie and David have to say, because Richie, you piqued my interest on this topic of security in freight. When we spoke last time, I had no idea that the rate of theft has been increasing so dramatically. So anything we can do to turn that around, I think just benefits our supply chains in a multitude of ways.

Scott W. Luton [00:10:41]:

Excellent point there, Karin. I would argue that a lot of folks in the industry, even some of the most well connected supply chain pros out there, don't realize that cargo theft is on the rise. Yeah, I mean, I think a lot of hands would go up there. So very timely conversation, and I think you said it well, Karin. Okay. And Richie, by the way, going back to those apple orchards, I didn't miss that joke you put in a private chat about hoping Karin made some nice core memories. You can fit in right? He fit in well here, Rich. You fit in well.

Karin Bursa [00:11:12]:

The dad jokes are alive and well in the supply chain.

Scott W. Luton [00:11:16]:

That's right. Plenty of supply, no shortages. All right, well, let's continue setting table a little bit more, and we're going to do this a couple of different ways. So, David, from where you're, where you sit, and we're talking about this ever evolving, ever increasing freight security environment. Give us a couple of opening observations, David, that sets the table nicely.

David Shillingford [00:11:40]:

One way I'd say, to open the conversation is it's helpful to think about cargo crime like any other business. It's subject to all of the same dynamics that drive other businesses in terms of what's going on in general in the supply chain, with the workforce, with the economy in general, with specific commodity prices, with technology, with digitization. These are all things we spend a lot of time thinking about in the supply chain and trying to work out how do they impact our operations. But they also have an impact on cargo crime, because the criminals are always thinking risk versus reward and what they're stealing and how they're stealing it, where and when they're stealing it are going to vary depending upon those types of dynamics in the environment.

Richie Daigle [00:12:32]:

Yep.

Scott W. Luton [00:12:33]:

And, you know, one of the points you're kind of speaking to or implying there, Karin, what I'm hearing is what we touched on last time, Richie, you know, the democratization of technology and market intelligence and having the world at our fingertips. All the good actors can benefit from that, but unfortunately, it gives the bad actors an opportunity to refine and up their game as well, and we're seeing that play out across the freight security environment. Your quick thoughts, Karin, on what David shared there.

Karin Bursa [00:13:05]:

Yeah, I do think we have to be very conscious of that in supply chain where we're working so hard to be lean and mean from an inventory perspective, we just don't maintain the buffers necessary for these unexpected crimes and additional risk that introduces. So I think that where we can take control and gain visibility, we need to take those steps so that we can either expedite the resolution or completely avoid the incident in the first place.

Scott W. Luton [00:13:38]:

That's right. Let's avoid altogether. Excellent point, Karin. All right. So, Richie, since you last joined us, I think that was about a month ago or so. What's been one development or news story in freight security that's gotten your attention since your last appearance with us? Richie?

Richie Daigle [00:13:56]:

Yeah, it's just a few days ago, I saw on Twitter on LinkedIn, there was a number of people posting it. There was video footage of thieving. There was a railroad, a train, a bunch of freight on the rail, double stack containers. And there were a number of people who were opening these containers and pulling freight out. And it was just right there. You know, it was right present for so many people to see. Some people are arguing, well, maybe that's just better reporting or people are more comfortable reporting. But the general consensus or the feeling that a lot of people that are on the front lines have or would tell you is that no, reality is, it's probably even worse than what's being reported.

Richie Daigle [00:14:41]:

So it's interesting just to see that on my phone, on Twitter, on LinkedIn, on all these other social media outlets happening, and a lot of people were seeing that as well. That definitely caught my attention here just a few days ago.

Scott W. Luton [00:14:57]:

You know, it's interesting. Even, even when, you know, when certain things take place, when you see it live and on video, it is a stark reminder of, it kind of makes the data, it makes it leap off the page. And speaking of the data, and, Karin, I loved your mantra when Richie joined us that whole week, the mantra was, um, facts, not feelings. Right? So if you look at the data which Richie was pointing to, according to some estimates, cargo theft is up almost 50% here in 2024 year over year. And then secondly, Richie was talking about that, the theft of the rail car there in, on the west side of Chicago, which I think that was last week, a caught on video. Six folks were arrested. Well, local media is reporting that in the Illinois state of Illinois alone, that brings the total to 174 cargo thefts across the state. And that's been increasing.

Scott W. Luton [00:15:49]:

They, they've been reporting since 2020. So it's not even a new, a new story. Karin, your thoughts there, kind of how rich you brought it home, what the data is telling us, the stark imagery of folks and your thoughts there, Karin?

Karin Bursa [00:16:05]:

Yeah, I think it's exactly what, what you're getting at. And that is when you see it, when you see it and experience it firsthand, it really starts to hit home. So for me, that was just another teaching moment about supply chain. So it's kind of like Covid when we couldn't get toilet paper right here. When you see this reported and you see that it is so organized in some situations that you just want to sit back and say, gee, if they could just use those skills for good and not evil, what could we do? How could we change the world? But it's a very real, very tangible problem. And I think, as Richie said, it may still be underreported, the problem may be bigger still than what we're aware of.

Scott W. Luton [00:16:49]:

Excellent points there, excellent points. And yes, if they could all just refocus, redevelop those efforts to building a better world, oh, where we would be. Okay, so, folks, our topic, if you can't tell, is a good one. And we get the pull from expertise from Richie and David here. It's confronting ever changing dynamics in freight security, and we got a ton to get more into. Want to start with this phrase, this operative phrase, ever changing. Now, that applies to many things across global supply chain, global business, maybe even humanity these days, but especially as it relates to freight security, it's critical to understand that it's not a static risk on any level. So Dave, let's start with you.

Scott W. Luton [00:17:31]:

Speak to, if you would, this dynamic nature of freight security and the overall supply chain risk it poses.

David Shillingford [00:17:38]:

Yeah, I think the evolving nature, I think it's a good and important theme because you've got on one hand, what I would describe as opportunistic theft, and that's pretty hard to predict. It's going to pop up here and there. I think what happened in Chicago on Friday is a good example of opportunistic theft, and that's very hard to predict. And that in itself is going to be happening in different places and at different times. The more organized side of cargo theft, that's going to ebb and flow depending upon where the cargo criminals see opportunity. That's going to depend in part in terms of what the marketplace is like. What do they think they can sell? What do they think they can sell quickly without being caught?

Karin Bursa [00:18:22]:

I.

David Shillingford [00:18:22]:

And then on the other side is they're looking at the movement of freight and where are things finding themselves in bottlenecks. And all of that is going to be changing. And then on top of that, you've got the bigger, maybe sort of more macro changes, particularly around digitization, both on the side of the criminal and the side of those who are looking to combat cargo theft. The IoT devices that tyve specialises in are a good example of something that is rapidly evolving and providing more and more opportunities to combat cargo crime. And then on the other side, as Karim was saying, youve got opportunity and risk around information, information to help you understand cargo theft dynamics and where you need to be better defended, but also information that gets into the wrong hands and allows cargo thieves to target certain loads. So there's a lot of different dynamics that are moving different ways, different times. It is a moving target for sure, no doubt.

Scott W. Luton [00:19:29]:

And rich, I want to get your perspective next and then Karin's. But it's interesting, on the front end of David's response, he's basically talking about how the cargo thieves or supply chain pros are getting into demand forecasting, figuring out what they should target to sell. I'm only smiling to keep things light. But secondly, they're also leading their own digital transformation efforts. It really is a fascinating component of global supply chain and the risk, of course. Richie, what else would you add, especially to this dynamic environment where it changes, it seems like, from day to day?

Richie Daigle [00:20:05]:

Yeah, I think there's these big sociological sort of macro shifts that are happening in the economy, where last time I went to a shopping mall, there's hardly anybody there. No one's shopping in a shopping mall. Everyone's shopping at home. Online, people are utilizing Facebook, marketplace and eBay. There's people that can make a good living just selling things themselves out of their house via marketplace and so forth. So the whole entire marketplace, or mall arena has shifted. And I think that has been opportunistic for bad actors. Now it's a lot easier to turn XYZ cargo into money.

Richie Daigle [00:20:47]:

Maybe they didn't want to steal a whole container worth of widgets prior, because what do we do with them? How do we offload these? Well, now it's really easy to do that. I think that's impacting opportunistic theft and strategic theft. Maybe five or ten years ago, you know, a train is sitting still for a few hours, and everyone just rides by it and doesn't think twice. And now people are looking at it like, what's inside those containers? I want to go have a look. Maybe it's something I would like, but if I don't like it. It's something I might be able to turn into money really fast. And then the organized criminals are catching on to that as well, and they're utilizing technology to be more targeted and pinpointed and say, we want to specialize in selling these items, and so can we identify those items in transit, target them, find vulnerabilities in weak spots, and steal them accordingly? So I think there's all these different factors that are at play that are influencing behavior both at the opportunistic level and the strategic level.

Scott W. Luton [00:21:51]:

Excellent perspective there, Richie and David Karin, what did you hear there that you want to highlight and spike the football?

Karin Bursa [00:22:01]:

Well, I think Ritchie's last point about opportunistic theft as well as organized initiatives is really important. But also thinking about this in both the physical terms of where that freight is or where those high value items might be located and where they were last monitored. But there's also the digital how we keep our digital information secure as well. Just with the rate that data is multiplying these days, that gets more and more challenging. There's high value in it, you hear me say, all the time, replacing risky inventory with valuable insights. This is an opportunity for it to go both ways.

David Shillingford [00:22:42]:

Yeah, I just wanted to add on to that because I think there's a really interesting case recently where the delivery of iPhones has been targeted, where they're essentially being stolen off the front porch and the volume in which that is happening, the speed with which it's happening, and can only be as a result of targeting. And that targeting could only be as a result of the criminals having hold of the order and the tracking numbers. It's an important point because companies forever have been trying to get the right balance between consumer convenience and security. You look at loss prevention within bricks and mortar stores. You want people coming in and having a very frictionless experience, but you also don't want people walking out with stuff that they haven't paid for. And it's the same now with e commerce, where people want to know where their stuff is and when it's going to arrive. And you want to be able to type in a tracking number and see where everything is all the time. But only the person who is supposed to see that should be able to see that.

David Shillingford [00:23:48]:

And that's not the way things are set up at the moment. And there's a lot of lessons to be learned and a lot of work to be done around the idea of sort of data should be need to know.

Scott W. Luton [00:23:59]:

Okay, so let's keep driving here I want to go back to we constantly, Karin, talk about elevating things into more strategic, comprehensive, holistic approach. And that's where I want to go next with this question, starting with Richie. First, talk about the importance of taking a true strategic approach to freight security, especially as we build the optimal tech stack. Richie, your thoughts?

Richie Daigle [00:24:26]:

Yeah, I think the industry is in the, what I would call the AA moment, the Alcoholics anonymous moment, where we need to take the first step and say we have a problem and admit that and really let that sink in and everybody get on the same page and stop trying to sweep it under the rug or pretend like it doesn't exist, but accept that this is a problem that's getting worse and is expected to continue to get worse. The goal of building a tech stack to combat this is going to be raising overall awareness, awareness across the board, awareness of who you're doing business with, awareness of the way that you're setting up your paperwork, the way how you're vetting carriers and partners, the relationships that you have in place, being aware of the strength of those relationships and where those parties come from and how they operate, awareness from obviously, where your shipments are in transit and the conditions that they're in. Are doors opening, are you having temperature issues? Elevating all of this awareness and then trying to automate that awareness where possible by relying on alerts you don't have massive inefficiencies from people staring at screens. I think should be the goal that people should be considering. And theres a lot of great technologies that can be layered upon each other and a tech stack that can be built, well that can achieve that. But I think awareness is the word. Preston?

Scott W. Luton [00:25:54]:

Well, I love your opening salvo of we got to all admit as an industry we have a problem. And David poses a great question in the chat. Is there a statistic David asked of the cost that cargo theft end up being paid by the final consumer that will raise awareness and that will help us address admit that's a problem. We'll see if we can't track something down for you. David and Richie also, given all that we want to have visibility on, it's a lot. Technology is the way to do it right. Gratefully, thankfully, there are great opportunities to really pull those levers and more to make it easier to put our eyes and ears and our teams focus on these threats here. We have to invest in that for sure.

Scott W. Luton [00:26:40]:

David, in addition to what Richie has shared, when you think about that strategic approach to this problem that we all must identify and admit it's a problem. What would you add, especially as it relates to building the tech stack that's going to help not just optimize supply chain performance, but tackle this big old risk head on?

David Shillingford [00:27:00]:

I think supply chain performance is the right starting point because you really want to look at your overall approach to data collection and analytics across the supply chain management space, and then think within that of supply chain risk management broadly, and then for cargo security to be a component of that, then work backwards from that, knowing that IoT devices would be an example of something that you want to deploy for all loads or for certain loads, and then to ask, well, what are the other uses that I can make of that data in running my supply chain? As much as possible, the approach needs to look at data and analytics. And how's that helping with me with freight security? How is it helping me with other risks, and how is that helping me with the overall efficiency and management and planning of my supply chain? It's the same data. Some of it is used in planning, some of it is used in execution. It's all about what is where, or what is going to be where. What risks might it face, what can I do to either avoid them or mitigate them, or at least be in a position to respond in a manner that is going to be as effective as possible?

Scott W. Luton [00:28:20]:

Excellent stuff there, David. Karin, when you've heard Richie and David talk about the strategic direction that supply chain leaders must take, especially when it comes to technology, your thoughts?

Karin Bursa [00:28:33]:

I couldn't agree more. So when I work with supply chain leaders, they tell me every strategic investment they're making, they're trying to boost visibility. My next question is always, what will you do with that visibility? So, to David's point, how do we use that visibility, or that knowledge of the environmental conditions or where the assets are located to then predict what's going to happen next, or be aware of what's going to happen next and evaluate that on a more strategic level so that we can prevent a late order and not just be reporting a late order in that process.

Scott W. Luton [00:29:11]:

Yeah, love that, Karin. And I gotta add, I was talking about these two relevant points yesterday with some folks out in Phoenix. To your point specifically, Karin, visibility is not easy, but it's so much easier to get these days than the years gone past. And to your point, it is about what we do about it with it, once we have it. It's like my dog sunny. I let her out 37 times a day. She bounds off the porch, jumps in the backyard, she's chasing after one of these 30 squirrels. But I know, I love Sunny, but I know she has no plans for when she one day catches one of those squirrels.

Scott W. Luton [00:29:45]:

Right? And unfortunately, in my experience, there's a lot of organizations that get that visibility, but they're not optimizing what they do with it. And that's the billion, if not the trillion dollar question. And one of the quick point, because technology, you have to, you have to pull a lever on technology. We interviewed a manufacturing leader a few months back, and big enterprise, their team reviews 13 trillion data records a day from 500,000 sensors across organization. Now, you tell me. I took those 1987 courses in speed reading, but I'm not quiet at 13 trillion data records a day. Technology has got to be the way. And they've been able to do it and reduce plan downtime in all their plants by 30% in the last five years by leading into the right focused technology play.

Scott W. Luton [00:30:43]:

And we've got to do that, in my opinion here, when it comes to not just admitting the problem, but tackling this huge problem. Okay, sorry for a little dot tribe there. Richie, you had another point to add.

Richie Daigle [00:30:53]:

One thing just to add to that, Scott. I was at a conference a few weeks ago and someone came and they said, listen, I could put up an IoT tracker that tells on my shipment. It tells me when the doors are open, but that's not stopping somebody from taking. If they're gonna steal it, they're gonna see a device and throw it away and steal it. And I'm still left with stolen freight. So why am I gonna pay extra money for this tracker? And I think a lot of people have, whether it's IoT trackers or any other type of technology, they might be thinking in terms of the kind of black and white thinking, like, is this going to solve my problem completely? Well, it might. Some of the data, when you analyze it, and you might pick up on trends that you can avoid, those lanes or those times in the future that you can get around that. But I think there's something to be said for the speed to reaction, and visibility and awareness can increase how quickly you become aware of a situation.

Richie Daigle [00:31:52]:

And I think anybody that works in supply chain can probably think about the difference of learning about an issue within 30 seconds of it occurring versus 8 hours later or a day later or longer. And now the ripple effects are much greater, the impact is much greater. So I think we have to be thinking about how quickly we're able to respond and what technology we have in place that can bring that to our awareness so that we're able to respond more quickly.

Scott W. Luton [00:32:20]:

Well said, Richie. Tom is one of the greatest enemies. Uh, we gotta be faster and faster, put in the actual information in our teammates hands so they can make better, better, faster decisions. Uh, all right, so let's. Let's keep moving here, man. This is. I wish we had a couple more hours here, Karin. Uh, 1 hour is not enough.

Scott W. Luton [00:32:40]:

Um, so we hosted a webinar a couple weeks ago, or I guess it was last week. Right, because October is worldwide Cybersecurity Awareness month. Right. And we, David and Richie and Karin, we brought someone in from our friends omnia partners. And this gentleman has been in cybersecurity for a long time. He actually goes on raids with authorities into, like, cyber criminals, you know, headquarters and stuff. He's a part of dark web negotiations, trying to protect his clients. Been a part of thousands of negotiations.

Scott W. Luton [00:33:11]:

One of the many points that I captured in my 18 pages of notes with this expertise was, we have to instill that company culture of awareness and adaptability and agility in our efforts to combat cyber threats for cargo thefts and a whole bunch more. Your thoughts on the cultural element here, David?

David Shillingford [00:33:33]:

The culture starts at a pretty basic level, and that's the culture of the company overall. And I think two ways of thinking about that. What is the relationship between management and employees within a company, and what is the relationship between the company and its partners, whether its logistics providers or technology providers? How well able is, how inclined is the company to partner outside of its four walls? Because the employees can either be your greatest asset or your greatest risk when it comes to cargo theft. And the companies that we see being really on the forefront of cargo theft prevention, almost all of them are very good at working with external third parties, because no company is an island when it comes to cargo theft. You've really got to have partnerships internally and externally, and that's a cultural thing. Companies either get that and they understand it, and they make sure that everyone is on side and working towards a common goal, or they're not. And you create weaknesses very quickly if you have the wrong culture.

Scott W. Luton [00:34:50]:

I love all that. But no company is their own island in this battle, especially when you consider the ecosystems that any supply chain relies on. Excellent stuff there, David Richie, what else would you add to that, especially when it comes to the cultural element of the battle?

Richie Daigle [00:35:06]:

I think a culture that promotes open communication is really important. People have to feel safe and able to voice concerns. They have to be able to feel comfortable to communicate that to their management, to leadership internally. You don't want a culture where there's so much fear in place that a broker is uncertain about something, but they don't want to say anything. And now they're being targeted and they're going down a rabbit hole. That's just going to be really painful for a lot of people. So I think open communication internally within companies, I think companies ability to share information with partners, with other companies, even competitors at times, so that we're all working collectively together against this is also really important. Sharing that we notice this trend on this lane, even if it's with a competitor, that can be really helpful.

Richie Daigle [00:36:04]:

We're all trying to get freight from point a to point b. We're the good guys. Let's understand that we're on the same team in some regard. So I think open communication is really important. Strong partnerships, strong relationships are really important right now. And as much as we talk about technology, the human element is every bit or as more important today with building trusting relationships and being able to share information openly with, with trusted partners.

Scott W. Luton [00:36:30]:

Good stuff there, Richie, that critical information exchange amongst the trusted partners across the ecosystem. Karin, after what David and Richie shared here, culturally, your thoughts?

Karin Bursa [00:36:43]:

I think the piece, especially around making sure your employees can voice up if they see something, if they identify a pattern that maybe the systems haven't identified right, through their intuition and their human creativity, they may see things connected that the data doesn't connect for us. The other thing is the relationship with these trading partners. In the past, Ritchie has shared opportunities to vet your partners because of some of the tracking capabilities that are available with tithe, but at the same time, being open in those communications of where your business has had challenge in a specific lane or transport mode, and asking for that information back from your partners is a way that we can either put more precautions in place or identify maybe less expeditious routes to market, but ones that will get there safely and.

Scott W. Luton [00:37:40]:

Securely, name it again, love that fast, safe and secure. And trust. I don't want to overlook that trust. And there's so many different ways we can build. We can establish and build on trust across ecosystems, which should not be overlooked as well, and within cultures. Uh, all right, so, Richie, we're going to make your day here. This is cool. Utilizing the time gps trackers, we were able to track down some high value freight and our account rep was all over tracking the truck down.

Scott W. Luton [00:38:12]:

The freight was located and ended up delivering successfully. But, uh, not all are that lucky. Richie, quick response we know you're passionate about what you do, you and the top team. But hearing that, that's pretty cool, huh?

Richie Daigle [00:38:25]:

That's exactly what we want to hear from our customers. Not that they're having challenges, but when they are having challenges, that they're able to take action. I think there's something about control and controlling your visibility and not being dependent on a driver, a driver app or a DLD or some other form of location tracking. That's exactly why the technology exists, and that's a great example of how it's being used.

Scott W. Luton [00:38:51]:

Excellent point. Because, folks, even Superman goes rogue for at least one installment of the 37 movies out there, right? So that's part of the human element when it comes to how to respond, to how, uh, to respond to evolving risks, especially with flexibility and foresight, which is what modern supply chain, uh, management calls for. What would you be your advice there, Richie?

Richie Daigle [00:39:15]:

Let's start with you, first of all, is keeping a good barometer of what's going on in the market, in the economy, and all the big sociological factors that are having an impact on risk and theft risk specifically. I think that's a great first step. But then with that information, a lot of it's going to depend on what type of freight is being moved, what's going on in that specific moment. Only the supply chain professionals are going to know all of those details, but I will say, have a plan. We talked about the Greg Maddox have a plan. Know how to implement your plan and be able to execute. I think having an SoP built that is appropriate for the type of freight that's being moved, that accounts for a number of different scenarios that may occur, is really helpful so that if those scenarios do occur, you can look at your plan. Here's our SOP, and let's go execute it accordingly.

Richie Daigle [00:40:12]:

I think that is going to put people way ahead of the curve as opposed to, oh, no, this happened. What do we do? What do we do? What do we do? And we're trying to figure out and problem solve in the moment. So just having a plan, building out sops and thinking ahead can go a long way.

Scott W. Luton [00:40:27]:

Richie, I love that you reference one of my favorite baseball players, Greg Maddox. Folks, if you don't know Greg Maddox, he wasn't the most athletic pitcher of all time. He didn't have all, he didn't have the, the hardest fastball effect, didn't throw that hard at all, had great control, but he didn't have a lot of things that modern day athletes have. But to Richie's point, he had a plan for every single game that he executed, and he's, he became one of the best pitchers of the modern era and certainly a Hall of famer and helped the Braves get 995 world series. So, Richie, great call out there. Uh, David Schillingford, what would be your vice in terms of the how?

David Shillingford [00:41:03]:

Yeah, I think just building on what Richie was saying there, I think that everything that you do in response to a theft has to be thought of in advance. There's really nothing that can be done once the theft has occurred. And almost all of those things that you should do before a theft has occurred should be thought about in terms of layers. And as you build up those layers, depending upon what the freight is and other variables, you're also going to create a situation where theft is less likely to happen. Whether it's opportunistic, whether it's organized. It's rather like, you don't have to outrun the bear, you just have to outrun your friend. If your cargo is more secure in that truck stop than everybody else's cargo because of what you put in place, they're not going to steal your cargo. They're going to steal someone else's.

David Shillingford [00:41:55]:

There are more than enough targets for them to hit. They only need one today. It's going to be someone else's if you've got the right things put in place and don't reinvent the wheel. All of this has been thought through. It's been done before. If you're wondering how to get started, there are organizations out there that have spent decades compiling all of the necessary information, keeping it updated with new technology. I'd encourage people to reach out to those organizations, become part of them. Even if you're not carrying very high value loads, the principles are still the same.

Scott W. Luton [00:42:36]:

So, David, I love where you went there. It's very actionable advice. And you're reading your crystal ball because I'm going to about to close with getting one very actionable tip from both of you all before we make sure we get you all connected. So good stuff, David, and I loved your point there. I know, Karin, you liked it, too. You don't have to become Carl Lewis in the race for cargo security. You just have to be a couple steps faster than some of your peers out there. Or better yet, at least one peer.

Scott W. Luton [00:43:05]:

All right, so, corrine, good advice, great advice. Been there, done that. Advice from both Richie and David, your thoughts?

Karin Bursa [00:43:12]:

I do think technology can be a deterrent, right? So they pass your freight by and maybe pursue a different target. I do think that's important. I also would underscore Richie's point about standard operating procedures or a playbook we do in this situation. What are the next logical steps? Or how do we recover from this incident? And then I liked also what David shared earlier about analyzing these occurrences and events and looking for patterns and understanding, using analytics to see maybe trends that we're not aware of initially and when we can bring in data from broader data sources as well, that helps us identify, oh, we were one incident in a group of 150 incidences so that there is a hotspot, if you will, where these thefts may be occurring on a regular basis. And to do that, we have to report. So if we're underreporting today, we need to up the reporting so that we can identify those hotspots and help ourselves and potentially help others in the process as well.

Scott W. Luton [00:44:25]:

That's right. Well said, Karin. Let's do this. We're going to make sure folks don't want to get connected with Richie and Dave. We're going to get Karin's patented key takeaway. But before we do that, if you had to boil it down to one piece of advice that you would recommend both Richie and David, that folks take a step they take today. Right? We've shared a lot of outstanding expertise and perspective, but if you had to pick one thing that our audience would need to do today to tackle this massive threat, what would that be? And David, let's start with you.

David Shillingford [00:44:57]:

I'm going to choose don't reinvent the wheel. I'm going to say go find the people who've been figuring this out for decades and learn from them. I can post links to the various different organizations that I would recommend people reach out in my LinkedIn post today.

Scott W. Luton [00:45:16]:

Excellent point, David. We don't have to vertically integrate every single need that we have within the organization. Let's be experts in where we should be experts and then spring in the experts when we need to. Excellent point, David. It's not reinventing the wheel. Richie, your one key suggested action for folks to take today.

Richie Daigle [00:45:34]:

Go back to the same word, awareness. Elevate your awareness. Understand that your response to freight theft starts before the load even leaves. And what technologies do you have in place? What relationships are you relying on? How are you tracking that freight? Do you have devices in place? And do you have sops in place to act if something goes sideways? So I think understanding that your response is going to start before the load even leaves and doing some deep diving and some internal looking to see are there opportunities to elevate awareness, whether that's through technology or relationships or both. But I think that's a good starting point.

Scott W. Luton [00:46:15]:

Excellent point, Richie. And as I know you'd agree for when things go sideways, because you're going to be, you're going to be hit at some point. It's probably a good thing to assume that and plan for that. Good stuff, Richie. Karin, whether you want to comment on what David and Richie are suggesting or offer up your own, your thoughts?

Karin Bursa [00:46:34]:

Well, I think great recommendations from both Richie and David. They've certainly given me some things to think about and to talk about more often. Right. Not only being aware of the risk associated with theft, but how do we consider that as a part of our overall supply chain plans, especially in markets where we are trying to run as lean as possible and focus on service to our customers? This is an important step in that process, and we are protecting many times either valuable raw material or valuable finished product. And if it's finished goods headed to a customer, that's going to impact our customer service, and we don't want that. Right. It's expensive in more ways than just straight cost in those situations. So valuable conversation.

Karin Bursa [00:47:23]:

I think we need to start having it with our trading partners and also considering it in all aspects of supply chain planning.

Scott W. Luton [00:47:30]:

Excellent point. Excellent point. Okay, well, we want to give you an opportunity. If you haven't started a relationship with Richie and David and even Karin, we want to help make that happen. So let's make sure folks know how to connect with you both. And Richie, let's start with you. How can folks connect with you? And the tie of team that's on the move?

Richie Daigle [00:47:49]:

You can find me on LinkedIn, just search for my name. I'm sure it will pop up eventually. There's not too many Richie Daigles out there. But then Richie dot degle.com is my email. Feel free to reach out, even if it's just stories or whatever questions you have. I'd love to connect and hear more and learn more as well. Thanks.

Scott W. Luton [00:48:10]:

And there's only one Richie Dago with a nasty curveball out there. So, folks, if you connect Richie, talk supply chain, but also talk baseball, you'll enjoy it. All right, David, great to have you back. It's been too long. How can folks plug into you and everything, man, you and the Everstream analytics team, Columbia Capital Venture group, how can folks connect with you?

David Shillingford [00:48:34]:

Yeah, LinkedIn is the easiest thing for me. As you know, I'm posting most days. I'll be posting today about this conversation. There's a lot to reflect upon as far as ever stream is concerned there at Everstream Dot, a lot more there.

Scott W. Luton [00:48:49]:

There is a whole bunch more there. All right, Karin, I'm going to get your big takeaway in just a second. As we wrap fast and furiously, I want to share a couple of quick resources here, really important resources, starting with our next conversation with Richie Daigle. Folks, we got Richie Daigle. We got Michael Kaney back, who was with us a couple of years ago, and Tevin Taylor. I'm telling you, this is gonna be a great conversation. And we're teed up for this webinar registration driven webinar on November 12 at twelve noon eastern time, where we dive even deeper into the abcs of cargo security and loss prevention. Make sure you join us for that and bring your perspective and your voice like so many of y'all have done here today.

Scott W. Luton [00:49:30]:

And then secondly, folks, if you're not tracking, if you're not connected or following David Shillingford, especially on LinkedIn, other probably social and other places, but especially LinkedIn, almost every day, much like today, where he's sharing some of the key takeaways from today's conversation almost every day. He is sharing expertise in a very approachable way on some of the most important topics and developments across global supply chain. So you're going to want to connect or follow David on LinkedIn, and also make sure you connect and follow Karin Bursa on LinkedIn, other places of social. Karin, this is going to be tough. You got the toughest question. Maybe I'll have the whole day because Richie and David have shared a bunch of great perspective. What's one critical key takeaway that our audience has got to keep front and center?

Karin Bursa [00:50:18]:

Yeah. So clearly, Scott, there are some clever criminal minds out there, and until we can get them to apply those skills to good instead of evil, we have got to be more aware and we've got to do what we can do to close those blind spots, to have the data necessary to either identify quickly a problem has occurred or resolve the issue in a proactive manner. So I love the fact that our community is responding with specific examples of what they've been able to do as well.

Scott W. Luton [00:50:50]:

I do too. Karin, one quick thing, also, as Karin talks about fact over feelings, it's really important being honest with ourselves as an industry, what's taking place, so that we can really act with clarity and velocity. Okay. Man, what an outstanding episode. Really appreciate everyone's time. Big thanks to Richie Daigle, enterprise account executive with time. Thanks so much for being here.

Richie Daigle [00:51:14]:

Richie, thanks for having me. Scott, enjoyed the conversation. David, you're a must follow LinkedIn for everyone listening. Like, please go follow David and Karin, it's always good to speak with you again as well.

Karin Bursa [00:51:28]:

Thank you. And good luck with the move. Good luck with the move.

Scott W. Luton [00:51:31]:

You beat me to it. Karin, we need to see pictures. We got to see your pictures. Putting that family to work, so in the beautiful mountains of Tennessee. But great to see you, Richie, and I agree with your sentiment there. Also, big thanks to David Schillingford, co founder of Everstream analytics and venture partner at Columbia. David, thanks so much for being here.

David Shillingford [00:51:51]:

My pleasure. Always a pleasure to join you guys. Great discussion. Thanks.

Scott W. Luton [00:51:56]:

That's right. Safe travels as you continue your air travel around the globe, tracking down the family and all. And also, big thanks to Karin Bursa. Karin, great to have you here as always.

Karin Bursa [00:52:08]:

Thank you, Scott. And this is just a reminder to everybody in our audience, what you do every day matters. This has just been one topic that shows how important you are in the overall network that brings goods to market.

Scott W. Luton [00:52:23]:

That's right. Excellent point there and a great point to wrap on. But, folks, you got homework. I hate to say it, you got homework. Homework doesn't stop with wherever you left school. You've got homework. Richie and David and Karin have dropped a lot of really actionable insights and expertise here today. I would challenge you to pick just at least one thing.

Scott W. Luton [00:52:42]:

At least one thing. Go back, have conversations, create that awareness, as everyone, especially Richie, has spoken about, you know, or take a tool, just take action, whatever you do, right, the threat is real, and we've got to admit that and start planning for that much, much more effectively as an industry. So with all that said, on behalf of the entire team here, the entire supply chain now team, Scott Luton challenge, you do good, give forward, be the change as needed, and we'll see you next time right back here at Supply Chain Now. Thanks, everybody.

Narrator [00:53:15]:

Thanks for being a part of our Supply Chain Now community. Check out all of our programming at supplychainnow.com and make sure you subscribe to Supply Chain Now anywhere you listen to podcasts and Follow us on Facebook, LinkedIn, Twitter and Instagram. See you next time on Supply Chain Now.