Bayan on Demand offers a growing library of courses taught by highly regarded scholars and practitioners. Designed for masjid board members, school administrators, imams, chaplains, youth workers, parents, and more. With classes on Islamic theology, adolescent development Nonprofit management and the history of Islam in America and more Bayan on Demand provides accessible knowledge for just $10 a month. Join our growing community of learners today and support the work of Bayan Islamic Graduate School and the Muhammad Ali Scholarship. Go to bayan online.org. That's B-A-Y-A-N. Online. org to get more information Assalamu alaikum family. And welcome to another edition of the American Muslim podcast presented by Bayan On Demand. Today our guest is Adam Soltani. He is the executive director of CARE Oklahoma. He is a community leader and educator with a master's in human relations. He is a prominent advocate for civil rights, interfaith dialogue, and social justice. Recognized as one of Oklahoma's most influential leaders. He is also an adjunct instructor at Oklahoma State University and a frequent public speaker on Islam and social issues and one of the wonderful Bay Antelope. Please enjoy the conversation. Assalamu alaikum, brother Adam.

Imam Tariq, thank you so much for having me on the podcast.

Oh, it's, it's a pleasure. So I want to start out by saying that you are welcome to be as vulnerable, as open as you would like to be during this conversation, it all serves the purpose of allowing our listeners a greater insight into the formation and thinking of those who have chosen to, or who have answered the call. Of leadership in their communities. So the first question I'm going to open up this conversation with is as someone who is very well known, what's something that people might be surprised to know about you? And the second part would be, how did it all start for you? What's your road into leadership and service? Oh, you

know that I think I'm gonna break it into two parts. So I think, uh, you know, what people might not know about me, you know, when you get in a leadership position, I think people formulate their own ideas about who you are. Um, and people really get surprised. You know, now that my kids are getting older, I have a nine year old and a 12 year old. Um, they're both boys. And so I'm out in the community, you know, doing activities with them, not just the Muslim community, the community in general. So we love to go to, uh, OKC Thunder Games. They're huge fans of the Oklahoma City Thunder and the NBA. Uh, we go to, you know, these, uh, jump places and amusement parks and all this kind of stuff. So the other day I was at an Oklahoma city thunder game and I ran into the mayor of Oklahoma city, David Holtz, and he didn't recognize me at first. He's like, I'm used to seeing you in a suit and tie, you know? So I think the fact that I'm just a human being, I love basketball. I love, um, Playing video games. You know, that's one of my pastimes I grew up doing. So I play video games with my kids now. Um, I love to collect sneakers. Uh, you know, I, it became very popular, but you know, as a kid of the eighties and nineties, I mean, that was just something I grew up with. And now that I have a little bit. You know, income where I can afford a nice sneaker here and there. It's, it's one of the things I like to do. So those are things people I think don't, you know, necessarily think of when they think of Adam Soltani right away. Where did it all start for me? Um, I was born and raised in Kansas. I was born to an Iranian father who immigrated. United States in 1978. And I emphasize the year because it was right before the Iranian revolution. So I was born in 1983. So I grew up during the aftermath of the Iranian revolution during the Iran Iraq war, uh, eventually Gulf desert storm. And so there was like this, a lot of this anti Middle East, anti Iran, uh, sentiment happening at that time. Not that it's changed a whole lot, but there definitely is more awareness. Uh, positive awareness about Iran and the Iranian culture now than there was then. Uh, so I grew up to an immigrant father and a white American Catholic mother. Um, and I'm a convert to Islam. I wasn't raised as a Muslim. Um, and people, I think it's shocked because they assume since my father was Muslim, I was raised as a Muslim, but my parents chose and, and I know how tough this is now that I have my own kids, they chose not to raise us in Islam or Catholicism, but to, give us the opportunity to choose which path we would follow. Um, so I'm Muslim. I have a brother who is, I think, somewhere in between Islam and probably atheism, you know, and I have another brother who at this point in his life probably is practicing Christianity, but we don't really talk about it. So I'm not entirely certain. Uh, but you know, we have a very diverse family. Um, and so, you know, I converted at the age of 17, and because I chose Islam as my religion at a young age, but also at a very pivotal age, it was very meaningful to me, and it really defined the most Pivotal aspects of my life, you know, from graduating high school, going to college, getting married, et cetera, and it means the world to me, you know, um, and I think that's why, you know, getting the opportunity to go to Bayan and get a doctorate in Islamic leadership, getting the opportunity, uh, to be a director at Care Oklahoma, getting the opportunity just to be Muslim every day. It's truly a blessing and something I cherish. Um, but I've also recognized that it doesn't have to be at the forefront of my identity every day, all the time, 24 seven. It can be an embedded part of me while other parts of me are able to also come out, you know, as I already had mentioned. So it's an interesting journey that I've been on and. Continuing to explore that.

Can you say more about the idea of your Muslim identity being one that's embedded versus one that has to be. Visible or out front.

Sure. You know, when I was, uh, 19, uh, it was my first semester at the University of Central Oklahoma, where I got my, uh, undergraduate bachelor's degree in sociology. First semester in college, uh, was super excited, uh, joined the Muslim Student Association. In fact, two days Prior to September 11, 2001, we had an a huge event on campus with Imam Sohaib Webb. Uh, shout out to Imam Sohaib, who's an Oklahoman, you know, we had him as a guest speaker and we were so hype and excited about this semester. 9 11 happens and the whole world just comes crashing down around us, you know, uh, realistically and, you know, metaphorically, right? It was a huge, shift in the way that people perceived us. And the reason I say Islam doesn't always have to be at the forefront of my identity is because I feel like 9 11 and the fallout of 9 11 made Islam the only part of my identity that people saw for a long time. I was Muslim before I was anything else. And when I got involved with care that obviously continued on. But I realized, you know what? Religion is very important to me, but it doesn't have to be the only aspect of me that people have to see or that I necessarily want people to see. And if you want me to be completely honest with you, when I talk about it can be an embedded part of my identity and who I am, I've learned that from people like you and other members of the African American Muslim community. Um, who have really embraced Islam as a part of their holistic identity in that, you know, it is part of who we are as part of our culture, but there are other aspects of our culture that we're equally as proud of. And we celebrate as a part of the life we live in America. And so I feel like I'm still. figuring a lot of things out, um, you know, and trying to figure out exactly who I am in terms of how I fit into the American fabric. But as I say that America is still trying to figure out who we are as a country. And so as I'm on this journey, our country is on this journey. What I Really hope for, um, is that my children don't have to go through these same struggles that I've gone through. And despite the fact that they're only nine and 12 years old, I already see them embracing every aspect of their identity and being proud of it in ways I never was at their age. And so I think we're moving in the right direction. So I have a lot of work to do as a country, but I'm proud of where my kids are at and that's the best I can do at this point in time.

So you mentioned that people often assume because of your father's Iranian background that you were automatically a practicing Muslim or would be growing up, but embracing Islam was actually a conscious choice, a conscious decision that you made. And I, this resonates with me because as a second generation Muslim with a predominantly Christian family, I can relate to the presence of multiple faith traditions and those identities. How much does that diversity of faith? of ethnicity and family background shape how you approach your work as the executive director of CARE and your leadership in the public space.

Yeah, well, it really impacts, I think my work period. Um, you know, one of the focus areas when I came into CARE Oklahoma as the executive director, which was in July, 2012. So it was about 12 and a half years ago. Uh, the one of the first things I did was to get involved with the interfaith community because I grew up in a multi faith, multicultural home and so driving the conversation and and encouraging dialogue and understanding when it comes to interfaith and interreligious understanding was always a huge priority for me, which is not always the case with other care chapters, other other care executive directors. But I always made it a big priority of mine serving on the board of the Interfaith Alliance Foundation of Oklahoma. I served as the chair of the Oklahoma Conference of Churches Religions United Committee for 10 years. Um, I, I have stepped away from those positions because I got busy with other things, but I'm still very focused on interfaith and interreligious dialogue and understanding. And that has really shifted into what I do at Oklahoma State University with my courses on, uh, religious religions, I should say, uh, religion and conflict in the Middle East. And my favorite course, which is, uh, religion, race, and social justice, where we get to talk a lot about not just diversity of religion in America, but the way that it intersects with, uh, race and racism and concepts of social justice. So yeah, it's very apparent in, in everything I do. And I didn't realize. The way it impacts the relationships I have with people until somebody actually told me That they recognize this in me. They said Adam. You're you're such a peculiar individual I was like, what do you mean? And they said well you just get along with everyone you connect with people across cultures across You know racial and ethnic boundaries and you have friends from every walk of life. I said That's just who I am and the way I've always been. I mean, when I was, I remember my undergraduate days in college when I was still getting used to the diversity of the Muslim community, my closest friends were from Pakistan, India, Bangladesh, Senegal, um, Morocco. I mean, you name it. I have friends from all these different places and that, you know, over the years that's just expanded and expanded and it's part of my extended American Muslim family, you know, and I, I, I should mention that, uh, I married a woman who also was in the same, uh, socio, you know, uh, I don't know what you would call it, like social sphere, you know, having a Muslim father and a white American mother having both a Muslim and a Christian family and background. And ironically, she also has the same approach to the way she creates relationships with people. Is that she has friends from all different, you know, racial, cultural, um, faith backgrounds. And so I think that is who I am. That is the way I've approached every aspect of my life. And quite honestly, I feel like that is what it really means to be an American, right? Is that you're not just one thing, but we are really This melting pot of all these different ideas. And we're creating something entirely new, uh, which I recognize pushes against a lot of the political rhetoric and a lot of the way that some people want to see things in America. But I'm proud of this fact. And I hope I'm able to pass this idea onto my children and a future generations as well.

Well, speaking of that American identity, there definitely is a contingent of folks here who are begrudgingly acceptant of the fact that we are evolving into a multi racial, multi ethnic, multi faith society. And there are also folks who are vehemently against That change. So they're doing everything that they can to push back against that. But for us as Muslims here in America, there are some questions and opportunities. I think that present themselves to us in these moments. Uh, one is how we see our responsibility in the public space. That is not just about what is good for us, but also what is good for humanity. What is good for our nation. And in that regard, you know, we can think about the words of the Qur'an where we are reminded that we've been brought out for the benefit of humanity. And thinking about your own leadership, how intentional are you about going outside of what might be expected to be the normal sphere of association that you would have or one would have in your position? Is that awareness something that is important for you? And how do you how do you do it?

Yeah, absolutely. I think in a position like mine, you have to be but it's not necessary that everyone is. Because yeah, you know, you could get into a position like executive director of a care chapter, or even just working in. More directly with the Muslim community and stay within that that cultural religious bubble right of you know I just want to work with the masajid. I just want to work with you know, the Muslims I don't want to get involved in these other things, but that was never the approach I took And so I identified, you know and continue to identify the people that I need to know the people I want to get to know better the people that I want to create relationships, not just as a professional, but also I want to create relationships for the Muslim community. So to give you an example there, I have many, but I'll give you two examples. Number one, our Muslim day at the Capitol was really born out of this very idea. Now we weren't. pioneers in creating capital dates for Muslims. I mean, they were, they existed before 2015, which was our first one. However, it never happened in Oklahoma prior to 2015. And so I had attended the Oklahoma Conference of Churches day at the legislator. Uh, and my friend, the Reverend Dr. William Tabernet, who is a former director of that organization, you know, I was talking to him about this, Churches conference of churches day at the legislature. I'm like, this is so awesome. You guys come here as proud Christians You know, you meet with the legislators you talk about things from your Christian perspective. You don't hide who you are I'm like, I really wish Muslims in Oklahoma could do this and now keep in mind. This is coming post anti sharia amendment In 2010, this is coming, um, after the 2010 wave of Islamophobia with the whole Ground Zero Mosque controversy. And this is also coming during the height of, uh, a former legislator, Representative John Bennett, who spent, uh, almost a good eight years attacking the Muslim community in Oklahoma. Um, in addition to many other things happening in geopolitics and whatnot. So all that being said, the Reverend Dr. William Tavernier said, Adam, you should do it, and I'll be the first to sign up to support you. And so we said, okay, we're going to do it. But we knew, so here's where the thing comes in, being intentional about forging those relationships. We knew that if we have a Muslim Day at the Capitol, The elected officials, the politicians, they're not just going to show up, right? Because Muslims are not the popular people at that time. So we spent a year forging relationships with people like former representative Mike Shelton, um, with, uh, former Senator John Sparks. Um, and I'm sure there's many others. I can't remember the names off the top of my head. That way, when we had our Muslim day at the Capitol, we knew they would show up and they would engage with the Muslim community and they would encourage them to get more involved in politics and policymaking processes and lobbying for things that are important to them. And I'm, I'm glad to say in 2015, we not only had a successful. Muslim day at the capitol despite active protesters coming out more than three dozen of them trying to stop us You know which ended up causing a whole scene with like massive amounts of police presence and all these things to protect the muslims You know from these protesters, but we went from that to having or 10th annual Oklahoma Muslim Day at the Capitol this past year and being able to connect with probably just about every elected official in the state of Oklahoma over the last 10 years from city to state to federal offices. So being intentional identifying who are the people we want to work with, identifying, you know, who are the, the, the, the people in the positions who can make moves and really get us in the door. That was something we had to do with intentionality. Um, the second example, No, I forgot what to say. I got so talking about the the Muslim day at the cap-- oh, I remember now. Okay. So the second example was so that was about getting the Muslim community out of their comfort zone but also opening the doors for them. My, my other example was recognizing that there was a service and a, how do we want to call it? Um, the YWCA of Oklahoma City. They have a domestic violence and sexual assault shelter in Oklahoma City for men, women and children. Oftentimes men are overlooked, but it exists for men, women and children. And I was introduced by a friend of mine to their CEO, former CEO, Jan Peary. And I got to go to one of the events and just hear about how phenomenal the work is that they do, how life changing it can be, especially for women and Children who are survivors of domestic violence or sexual assault. And I met with Jan and I said, Oh, this is amazing. This is what I do. If you ever need anything, let me know. She said, It just so happens is. that we actually have Muslims from time to time that come seeking our services. So I'll let you know if anything comes up. So, we did, you know, help, uh, over the years. We took some halal meals to them when they had some people staying in their shelter. Uh, we connected them to service providers. But I said, you know, the Muslim community The men in particular need to be aware of this because I know the cultural baggage of some of them bring with them from more male dominant Middle Eastern societies, and therefore we need to create awareness. So I was able to bring the CEO of the YWCA of Oklahoma City to the Islamic Society of Greater Oklahoma City, and I was the first, maybe the only, person to give a khutbah And follow that up by having a woman stand in front of a congregation of 2, 000 men and speak to them about this very important issue. But both of these examples were things that were done with intentionality, with purpose, and seeing the bigger picture and the greater good of what the Muslim community needs, whether it's things that they need others to be aware of, or they need brought in to our community, we need brought in to our community for us to be aware of.

Hmm. Hmm. Okay. Well, let me ask you this. How have Muslim communities progressed when it comes to building relationships and addressing societal changes despite the presence of Islamophobia and we know it varies, the intensity varies dependent upon your, your geographic location, right? But despite that, do you think that we are doing a good job of collectively Effectively communicating our needs and our contributions. You know, what is the weight and value that we bring to society? Uh, or do you think there's more work to do?

Um, I think we've not done a great job historically speaking. Uh, but I do think that we're getting better at it. You know, we do have, uh, institutions like ISPU, a big fan of the work that they do instant, uh, what is it, the institution for social policy and understanding, and I think a lot of the research they do and the data they put out, um, helps, you know, bridge that gap quite a bit, but I think. You know what happened pre well, specifically within immigrant dominant Muslim communities, because that's where my experience comes in. Pre 9 11. They were very much existing within their own comfort zone and cultural bubble. And not wanting to build relations outside of their own community. It happened in pockets, but not across the country. Post 9 11, I think Muslims have been so, um, distracted or maybe preoccupied is the better term with responding to Islamophobia and all that comes with it, whether it be hate crimes, discrimination. fear, et cetera, that we always don't, we typically don't have the opportunity to just be your normal everyday people and communicate the needs of the community to others. You know, this actually. came to my realization, I would say about eight years ago, when I visited with the regional food bank of Oklahoma, which is one of two food banks serving the entire state of Oklahoma. And they said, you know, we don't notice. that there are a lot of Muslims that visit our food pantries. And we wonder if it has to do with, you know, Islamophobia, if it has to do with the fact that a lot of our food pantries happen to be partnered with churches, but we want to figure this out because we want to serve everyone. And so we met with them on several occasions. It took a few years, but they approved the first ever food pantry. to be partnered with the regional food bank of Oklahoma housed at the Islamic society of greater Oklahoma city, ironically, within a hundred feet or 200 feet of a, another food pantry that was Christian run, but they approved the one at the mosque because they determined that. Um, and, and it was proven to be true that people were not going to this other pantry because they didn't feel comfortable. The interesting thing about it is, once all of this was determined, um, and, and it should have been a lot easier than it otherwise was, but again, as you mentioned, the needs weren't being communicated from our community outwards. Um, we ended up serving from that food pantry. more people per week than any food pantry in the entire state. Um, and the vast majority of people, while it was being fully funded by the Muslim community through funds being raised at Juma prayers and stuff like that, I would say 95 percent of the people that were served there were not Muslim. Uh, so it was a very interesting, um, experience to see that happen and come to fruition. But yes, I think that we're getting better. Um, at being able to really explain to people who we are and show, you know, all aspects of our community. But there's still a lot of work that we need to do to help people better understand the Muslim community, our needs, our experiences, and our diversity.

Hmm. So when we think about our diversity, it prompts us to recognize the diversity around us. And that leads me to think about interfaith work. What are your thoughts on the state of interfaith and multi faith collaboration? And from your vantage point, do you see examples of communities that come together with regularity, with intentionality, and how can we improve these efforts moving forward?

Yeah, yeah. Um, you know, there have been examples of that and there are examples of that that are happening across the country. Unfortunately, I just don't think that as a people. As as a people in America, we're comfortable enough with one another to actually see that happen on a regular basis, although we should be, you know, and and it really is the future of what America is going to be. But we see. You know, for example, I think Iman in Chicago, where you're located, uh, with Dr. Rami Nashashibi, is doing a phenomenal job of bringing people from different faith and cultural backgrounds together. Um, I've become familiar, uh, very recently with the Tri Faith Initiative in Omaha, Nebraska. Um, of course, Ibu Patel, I believe is in Chicago as well. And, you know, what was initially Interfaith Youth Corps, and I think is now called Interfaith America. You know, all of these things are examples of that happening. Um, in Oklahoma, where it should be happening, for example, uh, it's not happening. on the level that it could be. There have been isolated, uh, you know, initiatives to get people of different faiths to come together and volunteer at a food pantry or, you know, clean up the street or whatever the case may be, but it's just not happening enough. And it should be because one of the things that. All faiths call to, for the most part, particularly the Abrahamic traditions, is to serve God through serving God's creation, and to, you know, serve God by doing good in this world, and service is seen as a form of worship. in these different faith traditions. So it only makes sense, but I will mention one thing, um, which I think since we're talking about, you know, interfaith and multi faith initiatives, I think is very important. Since October 7th, 2023, it's become very apparent that The way interfaith, um, and inter religious dialogue and cooperation has been done in America. It may have worked up until then, but what I am seeing in the younger generation of people, half my age, uh, so you're talking about like high school and college students, it doesn't work for them. They don't want to go to the, uh, Abrahamic dialogue and let's talk about what we have in common and, you know, maybe, you know, slightly scratched the surface on our differences. They want to really get into the, the, the depth, um, the meat and potatoes, if you will, of the, the issues that are happening around them. They don't want to skirt around those issues. They don't want to pretend that everything's okay when. inside of them and in the world they live in. It's not right. And I think the the conflict, the ongoing conflict in the Gaza Strip has really brought that to the forefront. And I say all that to say this. I think if we really want to make multi faith interreligious cooperation, uh, and community service, a reality in America, we've got to find a way to do interfaith better. And we've got to really address the issues that are right in front of our faces. And we've got to have the courage, um, or as Brene Brown says, you know, we have to dare to lead and we've got to have the vulnerability and the courage it takes to do that. So I think we're going to have to think about re approaching this as well. Uh, and I think I just wanted to kind of add that in because I've been noticing that with the younger generation and I'm learning from them quite a bit in this regards. And it's something that we all need to consider,

you know, young people today. I think young people, regardless of the time are always looking for the. Result of their action. They're looking for the proof that they were here, that they did something. So patience is not always something that we associate with youth, right? That's something that we kind of step into as we get older and realize that sometimes you just have to wait, but as it relates to the younger generation and knowing that they are more likely to be. Attracted to that, which seems to have a direct impact or a direct outcome. And I'm not saying the young folks don't have any patients at all. That's not what I'm saying. But for the sake of the point that I'm making here, what are some of the things that our educational institutions, our interfaith initiatives, what are some of the things that need to be done differently in order to respond to that predilection that lends itself more towards direct action?

I think the first thing is young people, they appreciate authenticity, uh, and integrity. I think integrity is a word we need to start using a lot more. Um, because if you look at politics, for example, politicians. are lying to us more and more. They are using people against one another more than they ever have before. They're demonizing groups, whether it be religious, racial, cultural groups, immigrants, for example, that's been a big issue the last political cycle. So they appreciate authenticity. They appreciate integrity. They just want people to be real with them, you know, Um, I have no experience prior to spring of 2020 teaching at a university. Uh, the funny story is I was hired as a temporary sub, uh, because the person who was supposed to, they, you know, they plan far in advance for these courses. The person was supposed to teach a course on Islam and religion of the Middle East, uh, had to quit abruptly, I believe due to health reasons. So they asked me to come in. I said, okay, I guess, you know, uh, I'll give it a shot. And the funny thing is when you go to teach at a university, they don't tell you how to do it. They don't give you an instruction manual. They just say, here, here's the example of a syllabus. Good luck. You know, and that's pretty much what happened. I I'm grateful. I had some. Awesome students. My first semester, uh, you know, they kind of walked alongside me as we built the course. Um, and then that was the semester where COVID hit. And so just as I was ready to throw in the towel, you know, I remember I called Imam Sohaib Webb, a good friend of mine, met my mentor as well. And I'm like, I'm done. I'm, and he, at the time he was teaching at NYU. And I'm like, I'm gonna. I'm just going to stop this too much. It's too stressful. He said, listen, don't do that. At least finish out the semester. Um, but don't give up yet. And he said, I'm going to tell you something. Universities are a lot of like, a lot like nonprofits, you know, you have to set your boundaries. Otherwise they'll take full advantage of, you know, your time and your energy. And I was like, okay, uh, I will use this as a lesson and we'll see what happens. And so finish out the semester. Wasn't planning on doing anything further. But of course, you know, COVID changed the world and the way that things were going. And they came back to me, um, shortly after the semester ended and said, well, you know, we'd love for you to continue teaching. We'll give you a, uh, annual contract, renewable every year. Uh, we're on a hiring freeze. We can't bring anyone else on, but you're doing pretty good. And we'd love to have you, you know, continue doing this. I'm like. If you, if you think that I'm doing good, I'll give it a shot. Um, so anyways, I say all that to say, what I have learned from my students is that they like my courses. And some of them have said, and you know, you can go online and find these reviews. I, I realized over the last few years, there's a website called RateMyProfessor. com. And so, you know, you can search my name and see the reviews for yourself over there. But they say that I'm their favorite professor at the university. They look forward to coming to my class more than any other. So I'm like. I asked him, I said, why, what, what do I do that your other professors don't do? I say, you're honest, you know, you're, you tell us things that actually are practical and make a difference in our everyday life. You don't just lecture from a textbook. Um, and that's because I just brought myself into the classroom. You know, I use the. The textbook and the lectures just as a foundation for knowledge, but the vast majority of my courses are around dialogue, uh, challenging students to question, you know, things and to bring up issues and So what I'm seeing from the young people is they want real, you know, they want you to be real. They want you to be authentic. They want people to have a sense of integrity. Um, but simultaneously, they're also not afraid. to support what they want to support. Um, so while I, I do realize that young people are generally, I think, more liberal than their parents generation. So I have a lot of young people in Oklahoma coming from these rural counties that are, you know, moving in a more liberal direction. I also have some who are sticking to their roots of, no, we're going to vote Republican. We're going to stay conservative and we're proud of it. But the difference between them and their parents or grandparents is that they're willing to have a civil conversation with people about it. And so what I see in the young people is I see. I see potential for building a better future. I see the desire to understand, uh, as we say, you know, in Islam and it comes from the Quran, you know, understand truth as truth and falsehood as falsehood. Um, and I think that's why they're so drawn to learning about religion. Uh, you know, interestingly enough, Oklahoma State University. Our enrollment numbers in our world religions courses has gone up year over year for the last five years. And our religious studies department now teaches more students per instructor than any other department in the entire university, which is quite phenomenal. So there is a huge demand for it. So I think. All of this being said, we have an opportunity to do something really awesome with this new generation of people coming up. But if we don't recognize and embrace them and really try to cultivate, you know, what they want to see and, and use our wisdom, what wisdom we hope we have in guiding them, then. They're just going to probably end up falling into the same trap that previous generations have. So, you know, there's potential, but we've got to harness that potential and we've got to cultivate it and we've got to guide it. Otherwise it's just going to continue to be the same cycle over and over and over again.

Okay. Okay. Now my brother, Adam, we're going to bring this home to your home, Oklahoma. That is now, while I have never been to Oklahoma and With God's permission, uh, and at some point in the very near future, I will make my way to Oklahoma, but for those of us who have never been there, who don't know much about the state, um, I can't think of a better person than one of its most notable figures to tell us what is it like living as a Muslim in Oklahoma and how does its Culture, it's history, it's community dynamics. How do those things impact the Muslim experience, your experience? Oklahoma.

Um, you know, we're pretty much smack dab in the middle of the country, although a little bit, we're not central as far as north and south, but east and west wise, we are, uh, you know, funny story. Um, we hosted Linda Sarsour, um, as a guest for a Muslim student association event, I believe it was in February of 2024. And she was trying to, I You know, she was telling us that she was trying to explain to someone geographically where Oklahoma is located. I said, just tell them it's South Central United States. And she said, she's like I've heard of South Central L. A., but never South Central U. S. I say, well, that's where we are, you know. Um, but Oklahoma, you know, we're, we're right above Texas, uh, below Kansas. We border Arkansas, Colorado, and I think another state or two. We have borders with quite a few states, but we're only 4 million people. So we're, we're relatively small in numbers. What a lot of people don't realize when they see Oklahoma on the news and they think we're just a bunch of farmers with cows, that's partially true. Because Oklahoma City and Tulsa are the only two major metropolitan areas in the entire state. The vast majority of the state is rural. There is a lot of farmland. There, there was historically. A lot of oil land as well. That being said, Oklahoma city is actually the 20th largest city in the entire country and Tulsa somewhere within the top 50, I think it ranks around 48 or so. Um, and so we're not really like, you know. We're not that bad off. You know, we do have some good things going for us in Oklahoma City itself, where I live and spend most of my time has about one fourth of that population, the metropolitan area. Um, and we have a number of universities. Of course, college football fans would be familiar with the University of Oklahoma or Oklahoma State University. But what really put us on the map outside of the tragedy of of, uh, the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, which is what most people knew us for, uh, prior to 2008 was when we got the Oklahoma City Thunder, uh, after they relocated from Seattle, the former Seattle Supersonics. And that's really helped, I think, the image of Oklahoma grow quite a bit. Although, uh, I do have my grievances with the NBA. I don't think they're giving us our fair shake. You know, we should really be headlining You know, all the marquee matchups on the major networks, but, uh, maybe after we win that championship, we will, you know, but, um, Oklahoma is known for, uh, low cost of living, still has some of the lowest costs of living in the United States. Um, great economic opportunities, especially in certain sectors. We see a lot of physicians, people in the medical field moving to our state. Of course, academia, as we discuss, uh, engineering, things of that nature. Um, It's also a great place to raise a family. I mean, life here is slower, you know, people will take time out of their day to have a conversation with you. Um, I meet, I meet people every day that I don't know who the heck they are, but we sit and we have conversations, you know, and as a Muslim in America, I always You know, as I'm having a conversation with them, say, do I want to let them know I'm Muslim today, you know, and I would say 75 percent of the time I do, you know, there are times where I'm like, yeah, this person is questionable. I don't know if I want to really go down that road, but the vast majority of time I do share it with them and there's not been a single time. where I've told someone I'm Muslim that I've had someone say, Oh, hell no. You know what? That's an Oklahoma drawl, you know? Oh, hell no. We, we don't like y'all people right now. That's never actually happened to me in person on social media email. Yeah, of course, but never in person. And so I enjoy the slow pace of life and no offense to Chicago. I love Chicago. I love to visit it. Uh, was a huge fan of the Jordan bulls in the nineties. But I would never live there or any other big city for that matter. Um, I remember the first time it was a year and a half ago coming to Chicago, spending a week there for, um, our in person doctoral cohort classes. And I was just like, I was staying in downtown at the time because it was the same weekend as the Chicago marathon. It was hard to find a hotel. And so I would walk about half a mile to a coffee shop. and then get my coffee and then Uber to, you know, Chicago Theological Seminary. And after a few days of doing that, I called my wife. I said, I want to come home. And she said, why? I said, I, I hate being around all these people. Like, it's, I think I saw more people walking to the coffee shop in downtown Chicago every morning than I would see in a month in Oklahoma. And I'm like, this is, Too many. I feel claustrophobic. Yeah. And they didn't want to talk to me either. That was the other thing. They all had their earbuds in and don't want to look you in the eye and stuff. So yeah, Oklahoma is a good place and there's not a single Muslim. I say that specifically because, you know, people think Southern state racist history, all that is true. You know, we are the state where the tragedy, right. Of the black wall street massacre, right. Happened. Um, of course the anti Sharia law, as I mentioned in 2010. Uh, people think as a minority, you wouldn't want to live in Oklahoma, but Muslims love living in Oklahoma. And our population's only grown over the last two decades. We've got Halal grocery stores, Halal restaurants. We have about 15 mosques in the state of Oklahoma. Um, and it's just growing day over day over day. So it's a great place to live. It's a great place to visit. And if you come out and visit, I'll take you to a thunder game. Uh, just got to coordinate the schedule with,

all right. All right. Now you're talking. That sounds good to me. I'll get some of that. Okay. See court side action. Yeah.

For you, Imam Tariq, it's free of charge. Everyone else will negotiate the cost.

That sounds, Hey, that sounds great. Let's, let's make that happen. You know, it really is inspiring to know that there's growth in our community and a place that many people would not expect to find Muslims. Um, even though we're everywhere, right. Right. But have you had occasions where Because you're not wearing a kufi, you're not wearing, you know, an Islamic headdress, or you might not have on a thobe, you might not be presenting yourself in the, quote unquote, Muslim package that people would assume is the sole identifier of a Muslim. Have you had experiences where, when you're Talking to folks, when they find out that you are Muslim, is there a bit of cognitive dissonance and that the expectation or the stereotype that they may hold of what we're supposed to look like does not match the reality of who.

That's a, that's an awesome question. I, I think, yes, you know, for the older generation of folks, it can be surprising when they learned that I'm a Muslim, like, oh, but you're just so normal, right? Uh, like you're drinking a cup of coffee, you know, you're, you're at a thunder game. Like we didn't expect Muslims to do these things. Um, But, you know, as I've already talked also about the younger generation, I find that they're immediately accepting like they don't have that same cognitive dissonance that the older generation does. And I think a lot of that comes from the fact that they've already been exposed to Islam in some way, shape or form. A lot of it comes through relationships they've had with people. Oh, I had a Muslim classmate. I had a friend growing up. Um, and also keep in mind that college students into, you know, their freshman year over the last few years, they were either born right around or post nine 11. So they're growing up in a whole, they don't understand nine 11 the way that people who are in their forties, like I am do. I was 19 when it occurred. It's still vivid in my memory. It really defined what And who I became, but for younger people, that is not the case. So, yeah, I, you know, it's interesting because I think sometimes people are taken aback, but I think that's exactly what we want is we want people to realize that we're just as American as apple pie. You know, I don't even know what that saying means. It's always bothered me, but I mean, we're just as American as anyone else, you know, and we can be thunder fans. We can be. You know, uh, Chicago Bulls fans, you know, sorry, if you are right now, you're not y'all not doing, you know, but you know, you can be whoever or whatever you want to be. Now, here's the thing I'm going to, I'm going to give you my litmus tests for when. Muslims actually become part of the social fabric of America. And this is what I've posed to my students because they ask me, you know, when we talk about religious diversity in America and religious freedom, like they get it. They're like, okay, we understand how the constitution protects religious freedoms. We understand religious diversity in the world and we understand why we should be accepting of it. But how do we get to a point where we're not seeing anti Semitism? Islamophobia, you know, uh, hatred towards Sikhs, et cetera, et cetera. I say, here's your litmus test now. You got to picture this in your mind. In Oklahoma State University, there's a huge library. It's in the center of campus and right in front of that library, there's a massive green grass lawn, okay? And that's where a lot of the student activities take place. They'll have volleyball games and they'll do annual things out there. So it's, it's called the Lawn of the Edmond Lowe library. And so everyone's familiar with that said, if a Muslim myself or one of your classmates, it comes time for their afternoon prayer, and they can stop and pull out their prayer rug on the lawn right in front of the library, you know, in the middle of the university, while there's 20, 000 students going to and from classes, and they can do their prayer And nobody bats an eye or thinks twice about what is happening, then we have achieved true religious diversity in America. And I think that's the thing, you know, it's one thing to say you're Muslim, but it's another thing for people to actually see you being Muslim. And, you know, that's why I honestly don't wear a kufi all the time. I do, from time to time. Um, that's why I don't always wear things that readily identify me as Muslim. When I do it. I'm proud to do it, but when I don't do it, I recognize that this is a way for me to then bring that out in other means and show people that Muslims are your normal everyday people. And so, yeah, it's, it's interesting when you meet people and then they get to know you and, and the last thing they get to know about you is your Muslimness and you get to see, you know, how they react to that. But I think that's where we need to go. In America. And we really need to just show people that we are no different than Billy Bob. Um, or, you know, Billy Bob is the Oklahoma thing, you know, uh, Billy Bob in Oklahoma or Shaniqua in Chicago, you know, no different than anyone else.

That's good.

You know,

I really appreciate that answer. And I would be remiss if I didn't take the opportunity to inquire with one of they, and it's finest and ask you, what has the ban experience? What has that experience meant to you? What is the opportunity to be a student at BAYAN, to learn from such an accomplished group of scholars and practitioners and alongside fellow leaders who are serving their communities in a number of different ways? What has that experience meant to you?

BAYAN, my opportunity. The blessing of the opportunity to be a student at Bayan, to be associated with Bayan, has been life altering in the best way possible. And, for me, as an individual, a dream come true. Because when I was doing my undergraduate, and when I was really becoming very passionate about learning Islam, there weren't almost no opportunities, um, to learn about Islam in America except Zaytuna. Uh, you know, and so that was a very specific institution and you had to go all the way to California. It wasn't realistic for most people. Most of my friends, um, my mentors, my teachers, they were going overseas. That wasn't going to work for me either. And so I did my undergraduate degree and the closest associated thing, which was sociology. There wasn't even an option for like religious studies at the time. And then I ended up doing a master's in human relations with a focus on organizational diversity and development. So they were adjacent right to where I really wanted to be. Uh, but I always wanted to study Islam and have a better understanding, particularly for the context of Islam in America for, so when the opportunity for a doctorate in Islamic leadership came up. I was just like, wow, this is exactly what I've been looking for for my entire life. Um, but that being said, I didn't know what to expect, you know, when, when we started classes and what the professors would be like. Now that we are halfway through the program, we only have, uh, two courses left. So we've experienced, you know, most of what the instruction looks like. I can say that this has been perhaps the most phenomenal. academic experience of my life. And it is not only allowed me to have a better understanding of my current context as a Muslim leader in America, but it's also helped me, you know, imagine. Um, and shape what the future of my leadership can and inshallah will look like. Um, and really broaden my horizons in ways that I never thought possible. And I think for me coming from Oklahoma, because I've been told this by others, Imam Sohaib Webb in particular, because he got out, you know, um, some, some people describe Oklahoma, Um, uh, You know, as a, as kind of like a prison, you know, you got to find a way to escape before you get lost inside of it. Um, I didn't make it out. He made it out. He's like, Adam. You got to get out of Oklahoma. There's more opportunities for you outside. I'm like, no, I like it here. My wife's from here. My kids are born here. I'm good. But that being said, you know, being able to be involved with Mayan and not only learn from our amazing instructors, but learn from my fellow cohort members. Um, about what leadership in Muslim communities or just leadership in general looks like across the United States has inspired me to think about ways that I can be involved, not just in Oklahoma, but also on a national or maybe even global level in terms of leading people, whether it be Muslims or people of different faith backgrounds. In a positive or good direction, things that not only align with my professional goals, but also with my personal goals, uh, and my Islamic ideals of wanting to encourage the good, forbid the evil, um, and, and make the world a better place.

Praise be to God. I really appreciate the opportunity to have this conversation with you, brother Adam Sultani. I pray that Allah continues to bless you in your leadership. We thank you for taking the time to come on to the American Muslim podcast presented by Bayan On Demand. And to share some of your insights and experiences, giving us an idea of what makes Islam. Adam Soltani, tick. It's been a pleasure talking to you. Alright, family. It is time for us to wrap up, but before we do, we want to remind you that you can support the work of Bayan Islamic Graduate School by going to bayan online.org. That's bayan online.org, and doing one of, or maybe both. First thing you can do is to donate to the Muhammad Ali scholarship fund. And second is get yourself a subscription or a loved one, or maybe somebody that you're at odds with. This might smooth things out, get yourself a subscription to ban on demand. We've got 30 courses that are available there now. And we are expanding the course catalog, but those courses range from Islamic history and theology, pastoral care, adolescent development, nonprofit management, and it's available for 10 a month. That's right. That's 10 a month. So become part of the Bayan family. All right. I'm going to leave you as I greeted you and see you next week, inshallah, with God's permission. Assalamualaikum. May the peace that only God can give be with you.

Wa Ailaikum As Salaam wa rahmatullah