1 00:00:32,192 --> 00:00:33,053 G'Day, everyone. 2 00:00:33,083 --> 00:00:36,924 It's Michelle J. Raymond, back again with another episode and this week 3 00:00:36,924 --> 00:00:41,304 listeners, I'm excited because we have a fabulous guest who comes 4 00:00:41,304 --> 00:00:47,004 with 20 years plus of B2B marketing experience, and she is gonna share the 5 00:00:47,004 --> 00:00:49,703 ways that you can get some quick wins. 6 00:00:50,024 --> 00:00:52,763 Moni Oloyede, thank you so much for joining us. 7 00:00:53,153 --> 00:00:54,413 So happy to be here, Michelle. 8 00:00:54,413 --> 00:00:55,313 Thanks for having me. 9 00:00:55,660 --> 00:00:59,980 When I came across, first of all, your Substack newsletter, which I'll be 10 00:00:59,980 --> 00:01:02,860 dropping, any of the details so people can reach out and connect with you 11 00:01:02,860 --> 00:01:06,790 directly on LinkedIn or Substack or all of the cool resources that you've got. 12 00:01:07,130 --> 00:01:11,150 The thing that kept popping up was that you are passionate about 13 00:01:11,150 --> 00:01:15,980 getting back to good marketing, which is marketing fundamentals. 14 00:01:16,310 --> 00:01:19,640 I'm excited to talk about it, but we're gonna do that right after this quick word 15 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:21,870 from our podcast sponsors, Metricool. 16 00:02:09,544 --> 00:02:13,704 Okay, Moni, we're gonna go straight between the eyes because my first 17 00:02:13,704 --> 00:02:17,484 question that I have for you, and it comes up when I'm talking to my clients, 18 00:02:17,874 --> 00:02:23,274 is that I'm confused "is marketing to serve stakeholders or am I old fashioned 19 00:02:23,274 --> 00:02:24,984 in thinking it's for customers." 20 00:02:25,304 --> 00:02:28,514 When you peel back the layers and really look at it, you're really 21 00:02:28,514 --> 00:02:30,284 serving stakeholders, honestly. 22 00:02:30,284 --> 00:02:33,044 You're serving executives, you're serving board members. 23 00:02:33,299 --> 00:02:34,859 That's what those metrics are about. 24 00:02:34,859 --> 00:02:36,149 That's what all those numbers are about. 25 00:02:36,179 --> 00:02:37,824 'cause your customers don't care about those things. 26 00:02:38,004 --> 00:02:39,184 So you're serving board members? 27 00:02:40,012 --> 00:02:43,732 I know that that's what's going on because when people reach out to me, the first 28 00:02:43,732 --> 00:02:47,812 thing that they say is, we need help insert, let's say, getting more Company 29 00:02:47,812 --> 00:02:53,722 Page followers because our chairman, our CEO, our someone else from outside of that 30 00:02:53,722 --> 00:02:58,627 particular department Has seen that we've got less followers than our competitors, 31 00:02:58,927 --> 00:03:01,807 and so the strategy then bends around. 32 00:03:01,867 --> 00:03:07,297 Somebody else said this, but like honestly, where should we be focusing 33 00:03:07,297 --> 00:03:11,497 and what's like one proactive thing that we can do to take this back 34 00:03:11,497 --> 00:03:13,687 into control and serve our customers? 35 00:03:14,961 --> 00:03:21,861 It's so, it's so classic and I, listen, I sympathise with the, the practitioner or 36 00:03:21,861 --> 00:03:26,121 the people who are on the ground, because I'm sure they've had this conversation 37 00:03:26,331 --> 00:03:28,341 a thousand times internally of like. 38 00:03:28,686 --> 00:03:29,646 Why are we doing this? 39 00:03:29,646 --> 00:03:30,786 Why can't we just do that? 40 00:03:30,786 --> 00:03:31,986 Are you sure this is the way? 41 00:03:32,076 --> 00:03:36,916 like we've all tried to steer the ship in a different direction to no avail. 42 00:03:37,216 --> 00:03:40,966 So the, the advice that I give my clients and to, to the business owners 43 00:03:40,966 --> 00:03:46,111 that I talk to is like, let's focus on kind of getting customer research. 44 00:03:46,111 --> 00:03:50,461 Let's focus on validating that this is the right direction to go. 45 00:03:50,731 --> 00:03:54,031 One of the things that you can do is start with the good old form, right? 46 00:03:54,081 --> 00:03:57,381 So, for example, on a form, we say first name, last name, company title. 47 00:03:57,381 --> 00:03:58,971 That's all kind of wasted space. 48 00:03:59,091 --> 00:04:02,511 We have a bunch of data providers out there that can pin all that data for you. 49 00:04:02,841 --> 00:04:07,221 Instead, let's ask the essentials email, first name, last name, and then 50 00:04:07,221 --> 00:04:12,711 let's use that space to qualify or validate why they're taking the action. 51 00:04:12,711 --> 00:04:17,211 So if you have a white paper, for example, let's ask, are you downloading 52 00:04:17,211 --> 00:04:21,171 this white paper 'Cause you're dealing with X problem, Y problem or Z problem? 53 00:04:21,561 --> 00:04:23,841 or you downloading this paper 'cause you're trying to solve X 54 00:04:23,841 --> 00:04:25,671 problem, Y problem or Z problem. 55 00:04:26,061 --> 00:04:30,681 If you have that kind of qualitative information, you can inform the next 56 00:04:30,681 --> 00:04:35,661 step or you can then say, Hey guys, let's create this type of content. 57 00:04:35,661 --> 00:04:38,841 Because the problem is really the Z problem, right? 58 00:04:38,901 --> 00:04:40,071 It's validating information. 59 00:04:40,734 --> 00:04:47,784 Yeah, and it's actually using analytics to solve a problem that you are actually 60 00:04:47,784 --> 00:04:49,794 looking into, not reverse engineering. 61 00:04:49,794 --> 00:04:52,644 And I'm not gonna go into analytics just yet because I'm gonna save that 62 00:04:52,644 --> 00:04:58,289 for later on because there is something that I Think is even more important for 63 00:04:58,289 --> 00:05:02,369 our listeners to understand that we need to be measuring the right things and 64 00:05:02,369 --> 00:05:05,009 getting back to marketing fundamentals. 65 00:05:05,309 --> 00:05:08,999 There's something else that came up in your content that I found myself 66 00:05:09,029 --> 00:05:16,199 nodding away to, and that was all about the power of niches or niches 67 00:05:16,259 --> 00:05:17,699 depending where you are in the world. 68 00:05:17,699 --> 00:05:22,409 I'm on team niche, so we're gonna stay there, but I think one of the 69 00:05:22,409 --> 00:05:26,860 issues that I have found is that when clients are talking about, yeah, I 70 00:05:26,860 --> 00:05:32,050 know my niche, they're business owners, it's just not gonna do it for them. 71 00:05:32,590 --> 00:05:36,250 When do you see this and what's a better alternative that can help 72 00:05:36,250 --> 00:05:39,235 people really get those wins when it comes to their marketing on LinkedIn? 73 00:05:39,916 --> 00:05:43,726 Michelle, I see it all of the time. 74 00:05:43,906 --> 00:05:44,476 Okay. 75 00:05:44,536 --> 00:05:48,706 Every from, listen, I deal from small business owners, startups 76 00:05:48,706 --> 00:05:50,326 to enterprise level companies. 77 00:05:50,626 --> 00:05:55,366 Everybody's scared to niche down, and their biggest fear is that they're 78 00:05:55,366 --> 00:05:58,576 going to alienate or lose customers. 79 00:05:58,576 --> 00:05:58,786 Right? 80 00:05:58,786 --> 00:06:00,106 That's always the fear. 81 00:06:00,716 --> 00:06:02,546 Actually the opposite is true. 82 00:06:02,966 --> 00:06:06,026 Right, because if you're talking to everyone, you're talking to no one, 83 00:06:06,176 --> 00:06:07,676 that's the benefit of niching down. 84 00:06:07,676 --> 00:06:09,806 You have to, and the biggest companies do. 85 00:06:10,166 --> 00:06:13,676 I always give the example of, let's say Apple, right? 86 00:06:13,676 --> 00:06:16,406 You think Apple is like, oh my God, their customer base, 87 00:06:16,406 --> 00:06:17,486 everybody, everybody has an iPhone. 88 00:06:17,486 --> 00:06:18,206 They talk to everyone. 89 00:06:18,236 --> 00:06:18,746 They really don't. 90 00:06:19,046 --> 00:06:22,796 They have a very particular audience that they speak to. 91 00:06:23,156 --> 00:06:27,716 They speak to predominantly males, predominantly in that sort of mid 92 00:06:27,716 --> 00:06:32,036 20 to late, early forties, late thirties kind of demographic. 93 00:06:32,276 --> 00:06:34,976 Very educated, tech savvy. 94 00:06:34,976 --> 00:06:39,176 Like you see it at the conferences, you see it on kind of the online who that's 95 00:06:39,176 --> 00:06:41,396 an archetype of a person is very niche. 96 00:06:41,726 --> 00:06:45,876 Those people are their evangelists and they tell everybody else about the phone. 97 00:06:47,006 --> 00:06:48,386 That's how marketing really works. 98 00:06:48,386 --> 00:06:51,736 You find your niche audience, you evangelise these people to 99 00:06:51,736 --> 00:06:53,126 tell everyone else around you. 100 00:06:53,126 --> 00:06:54,206 It's called word of mouth. 101 00:06:54,206 --> 00:06:57,106 The most powerful piece of marketing that we actually have. 102 00:06:57,556 --> 00:07:01,376 Niching down is your best benefit, because that's how you speak directly to 103 00:07:01,376 --> 00:07:03,536 the pain point and the desired outcome. 104 00:07:03,586 --> 00:07:05,519 Look, I hear you. 105 00:07:05,879 --> 00:07:09,869 I have this podcast and I have another one called the LinkedIn Branding Show, 106 00:07:09,869 --> 00:07:14,549 where we often talk about niching, but I have a confession, Moni, and I think you 107 00:07:14,549 --> 00:07:16,289 are the right person to share it with. 108 00:07:16,769 --> 00:07:18,209 I know this stuff. 109 00:07:18,539 --> 00:07:23,429 I hear this stuff from other people and I nod my head and I agree with them, but 110 00:07:23,429 --> 00:07:28,739 when it came to my own marketing, when I just reviewed my website over the holiday 111 00:07:28,739 --> 00:07:34,439 break, I had to rock in the corner and say, I'm not taking my own medicine. 112 00:07:34,859 --> 00:07:39,479 People in the world know me for all things LinkedIn Company Pages. 113 00:07:39,479 --> 00:07:41,759 That is my area of expertise. 114 00:07:41,759 --> 00:07:43,409 That is a thing that they come to me. 115 00:07:43,954 --> 00:07:47,554 Do you think if you found my website that you would even really see 116 00:07:47,554 --> 00:07:49,474 the word Company Pages mentioned? 117 00:07:49,684 --> 00:07:49,804 No. 118 00:07:49,804 --> 00:07:50,414 No, no, no. 119 00:07:50,584 --> 00:07:54,304 I decided that it would be great to just be the LinkedIn person when 120 00:07:54,304 --> 00:07:59,194 it came to my website, so I get it because I've been there and done that 121 00:07:59,194 --> 00:08:02,554 myself, even though I know better. 122 00:08:02,794 --> 00:08:07,294 So this is definitely not hating on any of the marketers out there because I 123 00:08:07,294 --> 00:08:09,574 think it's scary because your brain says. 124 00:08:09,919 --> 00:08:15,019 No Moni, If I cut off all of this market, I'm gonna lose sales. 125 00:08:15,019 --> 00:08:18,799 As opposed to if you narrow in, you're gonna win more. 126 00:08:18,829 --> 00:08:21,979 Like it's just so against what your brain tells you. 127 00:08:22,215 --> 00:08:23,085 Counterintuitive. 128 00:08:23,115 --> 00:08:24,795 Absolutely a thousand percent. 129 00:08:25,095 --> 00:08:29,385 I think the reason why is because a lot of people don't understand that the 130 00:08:29,435 --> 00:08:31,685 marketing's in in the message, right? 131 00:08:31,745 --> 00:08:34,355 And the message has to resonate and connect. 132 00:08:34,355 --> 00:08:37,235 And the best way that you can do that is get as specific as 133 00:08:37,235 --> 00:08:38,435 you can about your audience. 134 00:08:38,495 --> 00:08:42,125 The way that I go about it with my customers and the people that I coach 135 00:08:42,125 --> 00:08:43,925 is like, let's use descriptive words. 136 00:08:43,925 --> 00:08:45,935 Don't give, get away from demographics, right? 137 00:08:46,175 --> 00:08:47,525 Use more descriptive words. 138 00:08:47,840 --> 00:08:53,870 Passionate, excited, frustrated, and like let's go into what the issue is 139 00:08:54,260 --> 00:08:56,840 deeper from a psychological standpoint. 140 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,290 And then that's how we kind of use that language to speak 141 00:09:00,290 --> 00:09:01,760 to those types of people. 142 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:03,830 And then we can go further and further and further and further. 143 00:09:03,830 --> 00:09:04,910 Because it is a process, right? 144 00:09:04,910 --> 00:09:07,370 You just don't jump to Company Pages, right? 145 00:09:07,370 --> 00:09:09,410 You start with LinkedIn and like, what's the real issue here? 146 00:09:09,410 --> 00:09:10,820 What do I hear over and over again? 147 00:09:11,000 --> 00:09:11,660 What is this problem? 148 00:09:11,660 --> 00:09:12,950 And then you kind of go deeper right? 149 00:09:13,124 --> 00:09:19,034 You do if you follow your own advice, and I'm pleased to say that What do you know? 150 00:09:19,034 --> 00:09:20,474 This is gonna be mind blowing. 151 00:09:20,714 --> 00:09:24,899 After I took my own advice and that of many smart marketers out there 152 00:09:24,899 --> 00:09:30,769 and actually narrowed in my website, which then led to the branding on 153 00:09:30,769 --> 00:09:34,909 my Company Page, the branding on my personal profile, the content that I'm 154 00:09:34,909 --> 00:09:37,189 putting out, these podcast episodes. 155 00:09:37,669 --> 00:09:38,689 What do you know? 156 00:09:38,719 --> 00:09:40,309 Guess who they're talking to now? 157 00:09:40,489 --> 00:09:46,069 My ideal audience, guess who's been booking more high quality calls with me. 158 00:09:46,519 --> 00:09:48,649 This stuff is amazing. 159 00:09:49,207 --> 00:09:50,077 Yeah, it's crazy. 160 00:09:50,167 --> 00:09:50,887 It's bananas. 161 00:09:50,887 --> 00:09:54,157 And you just pointed out a, an excellent point was that a lot of 162 00:09:54,157 --> 00:09:58,297 companies, especially B2B organisations, because they're so broad, they 163 00:09:58,297 --> 00:10:01,297 attract people who aren't their ideal customer profile all the time. 164 00:10:01,297 --> 00:10:05,617 And they waste cycles with people who are never gonna buy from them or not 165 00:10:05,617 --> 00:10:07,447 the right person to buy from them. 166 00:10:07,472 --> 00:10:07,672 Right. 167 00:10:08,099 --> 00:10:12,869 Which probably leads us into the next question that I have, and it's one that, 168 00:10:12,869 --> 00:10:16,289 because I came from 20 years of B2B sales. 169 00:10:16,684 --> 00:10:21,034 I have never sat internally in a B2B marketing team. 170 00:10:21,274 --> 00:10:27,304 So when people start talking MQLs and all these other bits of jargon, I have 171 00:10:27,304 --> 00:10:29,554 to tell you, my eyes glaze over a little. 172 00:10:29,554 --> 00:10:32,194 But I know that that's a big deal. 173 00:10:32,524 --> 00:10:38,744 But is the problem that marketing's kind of been reduced to just focusing on MQLs? 174 00:10:39,500 --> 00:10:43,400 My gosh, Michelle, we can be here for like six hours on this topic. 175 00:10:43,790 --> 00:10:45,830 Yes, it is a major problem. 176 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:50,680 It's one of the biggest pet peeves that I have about kind of B2B marketing 177 00:10:50,680 --> 00:10:57,250 currently, is that you're reduced to these analytics in a way of, the only 178 00:10:57,250 --> 00:11:02,530 way to prove your value is through leads, MQLs, and then ultimately how that drives 179 00:11:02,530 --> 00:11:10,345 pipeline, which then ignores All of the myriad of things that go into marketing. 180 00:11:10,345 --> 00:11:12,475 We just talked about niching down your audience. 181 00:11:12,475 --> 00:11:15,235 We just talked about messaging branding's in there. 182 00:11:15,265 --> 00:11:16,945 Market positioning is in there. 183 00:11:16,945 --> 00:11:21,220 There's so many different things in these volatile markets that are changing. 184 00:11:21,270 --> 00:11:22,140 Just look around you. 185 00:11:22,140 --> 00:11:23,370 It's nuts, right? 186 00:11:24,210 --> 00:11:28,620 All of those things play a factor and it gets reduced down to an MQL, which 187 00:11:28,710 --> 00:11:31,980 means what exactly in an organisation? 188 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:33,440 What's qualified, right? 189 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:38,960 That that definition gets changed day to day within an organisation, let 190 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:40,860 alone across many organisations, right? 191 00:11:40,860 --> 00:11:41,630 It's kind of nuts. 192 00:11:42,283 --> 00:11:45,913 It to me feels like, and again, I'm not coming from experience, and 193 00:11:45,913 --> 00:11:49,513 if anyone is listening or watching this over on YouTube, drop it 194 00:11:49,513 --> 00:11:51,133 in the comments and let me know. 195 00:11:51,163 --> 00:11:53,983 Like, what is the challenge that you have within your 196 00:11:53,983 --> 00:11:55,943 business when it comes to MQLs? 197 00:11:55,963 --> 00:11:59,893 Are you sitting here nodding your head going, yes, this is the problem? 198 00:11:59,893 --> 00:12:05,843 Because as you've just said, the consequence is You've jumped over so many 199 00:12:05,843 --> 00:12:11,543 of the first, and I would say even more important foundational steps to get to the 200 00:12:11,543 --> 00:12:14,393 end points and adjusting based on that. 201 00:12:14,393 --> 00:12:19,343 And I thinking then is the consequence to this, we forget about things 202 00:12:19,343 --> 00:12:24,533 like brand and then just become in a competition with our competitors 203 00:12:24,533 --> 00:12:26,333 to see who gets the most form fills. 204 00:12:26,333 --> 00:12:30,703 Like what happens if we don't get this right and focus just on MQLs? 205 00:12:31,144 --> 00:12:35,774 Yeah, it's, I mean, there's, there's so many issues that are a result of 206 00:12:35,774 --> 00:12:38,414 this sort of overly focusing on MQL. 207 00:12:38,414 --> 00:12:43,817 One of them is that Again, we've now reduced marketing's function 208 00:12:43,847 --> 00:12:47,537 to leads, which then reduces our function to only promotion, right? 209 00:12:47,537 --> 00:12:49,007 Normally there are four Ps, right? 210 00:12:49,007 --> 00:12:51,797 Product placement, price, promotion, and now we're just the promotion. 211 00:12:52,037 --> 00:12:56,687 So all of those other three things are now functions of other departments. 212 00:12:56,717 --> 00:13:00,707 Other people take care of those things and then dictate them to marketing, and 213 00:13:00,707 --> 00:13:02,627 you see the results of those two as well. 214 00:13:02,627 --> 00:13:04,667 It's like a simple one is price like marketing's supposed 215 00:13:04,667 --> 00:13:06,050 to be Responsible for price. 216 00:13:06,320 --> 00:13:10,640 Now that's sort of like finance or maybe the, the engineer product teams, 217 00:13:10,640 --> 00:13:12,410 the executive teams take care of that. 218 00:13:12,410 --> 00:13:15,380 And in a lot of B2B organisations that I've worked in, you have 219 00:13:15,380 --> 00:13:16,820 8,000 SKUs because of it. 220 00:13:17,570 --> 00:13:20,840 Like, you know, you discount this thing and now you got this SKU. 221 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,650 And we're coming up with this because we haven't done the market research 222 00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:28,490 to understand what the proper price of this product should be. 223 00:13:28,610 --> 00:13:28,880 Right. 224 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:30,260 Just one example. 225 00:13:30,410 --> 00:13:36,255 So the other problem with it is in a B2B setting we know that's a buying committee. 226 00:13:36,465 --> 00:13:37,935 So again, what's a lead? 227 00:13:38,745 --> 00:13:43,485 know that the buying cycle is longer because the price point is higher. 228 00:13:43,965 --> 00:13:49,245 So it's like, are we saying that somebody is qualified because they clicked on 229 00:13:49,245 --> 00:13:51,525 four emails and downloaded a white paper? 230 00:13:52,255 --> 00:13:55,015 They're now gonna buy a half a million dollars of software. 231 00:13:55,195 --> 00:13:59,725 That's what we're saying, the logic breaks down very quickly when 232 00:13:59,725 --> 00:14:01,285 you start to sort of poke at it. 233 00:14:01,675 --> 00:14:07,975 So even in the best case scenario, how is this really gonna work and be able 234 00:14:07,975 --> 00:14:10,455 to prove that you are doing your job? 235 00:14:11,045 --> 00:14:13,795 In any way you look at it, it's kind of not. 236 00:14:13,895 --> 00:14:18,609 So you screwed yourself and to your larger point, we now have an entire 237 00:14:18,739 --> 00:14:22,394 generation of marketers who assume that the job of marketing is to 238 00:14:22,394 --> 00:14:25,754 create content and get leads, and they don't understand the four Ps. 239 00:14:25,844 --> 00:14:28,394 They don't understand branding, they don't understand market 240 00:14:28,394 --> 00:14:29,474 analysis and positioning. 241 00:14:29,594 --> 00:14:30,974 All that stuff is gone, right? 242 00:14:30,974 --> 00:14:33,734 So they go, the C level goes, I need a strategy. 243 00:14:33,854 --> 00:14:36,944 And you just come up with a content plan and some tactics. 244 00:14:37,034 --> 00:14:38,084 That's not a strategy. 245 00:14:38,511 --> 00:14:42,501 Yeah, I see it all the time, like when I'm doing Page Audits and I'm looking 246 00:14:42,501 --> 00:14:48,021 going, every single post is some kind of lead gen style of posts, which is 247 00:14:48,149 --> 00:14:48,569 Mm-hmm. 248 00:14:48,751 --> 00:14:53,391 Go to our events, sign up for our form, we want something from you, so we can put 249 00:14:53,391 --> 00:14:57,591 you in our funnel, is essentially what I would, you know, summarise them as. 250 00:14:57,948 --> 00:15:00,918 And people are so aware of that now, and it's not that I don't 251 00:15:00,918 --> 00:15:02,058 want to hear from marketers. 252 00:15:02,058 --> 00:15:05,478 When it, I'm ready and it's the right type of thing and it's valuable, 253 00:15:05,718 --> 00:15:07,488 I'm absolutely ready for it. 254 00:15:07,848 --> 00:15:11,688 But the content that I see is literally someone else in the business. 255 00:15:12,088 --> 00:15:14,668 Wants you to go and do a post about this. 256 00:15:14,668 --> 00:15:17,998 You know, we've got a trade show coming up, so make sure you tell everyone 257 00:15:17,998 --> 00:15:22,408 we're at Stand J 22 in Hall this, and we'll be there for three days. 258 00:15:22,708 --> 00:15:24,958 And it's like, who cares? 259 00:15:24,988 --> 00:15:28,918 Like your whole industry is posting exactly the same thing. 260 00:15:29,308 --> 00:15:33,088 And this is where I think when we're being driven by the wrong things. 261 00:15:33,463 --> 00:15:37,303 And by people outside of our departments, then everything 262 00:15:37,303 --> 00:15:39,013 falls over the LinkedIn content. 263 00:15:39,013 --> 00:15:41,863 But as you say, those marketing fundamentals. 264 00:15:42,031 --> 00:15:46,471 They go out the window and then we say, LinkedIn's broken. 265 00:15:46,561 --> 00:15:48,691 You know, because we're not achieving our goals. 266 00:15:48,691 --> 00:15:52,411 And so this is why I really wanted to have this conversation with you 267 00:15:52,411 --> 00:15:57,001 today, is to say, look, we gotta get back to what we know works. 268 00:15:57,001 --> 00:16:00,091 Those four Ps, I don't know how long they've been around for, but 269 00:16:00,271 --> 00:16:02,011 long enough to be proven right. 270 00:16:02,709 --> 00:16:03,339 Right, right. 271 00:16:03,339 --> 00:16:05,469 And just to jump back to our first conversation, right. 272 00:16:05,469 --> 00:16:09,849 This is back to if you serve the customer, a lot of these issues go away. 273 00:16:10,839 --> 00:16:13,689 The lead gen is serving the stakeholders. 274 00:16:13,779 --> 00:16:16,719 If you understand the customer, which we don't, right? 275 00:16:16,719 --> 00:16:17,529 We really don't. 276 00:16:18,309 --> 00:16:20,349 We don't understand what they really value. 277 00:16:20,529 --> 00:16:22,899 We don't understand how to build relationships with them. 278 00:16:23,139 --> 00:16:25,389 We don't understand consumer psychology. 279 00:16:25,719 --> 00:16:27,159 None of that stuff is done. 280 00:16:27,219 --> 00:16:31,029 If you understood all those things, then you would know how to bring them along. 281 00:16:31,059 --> 00:16:35,019 We don't, like you said, how do I get them in my funnel as quickly as 282 00:16:35,019 --> 00:16:38,289 I possibly can to throw them down this magic lead scoring thing that's 283 00:16:38,289 --> 00:16:39,719 gonna make them to MQL tomorrow? 284 00:16:40,041 --> 00:16:41,721 I need to tell you that. 285 00:16:41,721 --> 00:16:46,701 My next question, listeners, I am literally pulling the pin on the grenade 286 00:16:46,731 --> 00:16:52,101 and I'm about to toss it and know that this is going to cause a mini blow up 287 00:16:52,371 --> 00:16:57,411 because there's something else that I watched, a whole video that you had. 288 00:16:57,411 --> 00:16:58,851 It's in your featured section. 289 00:16:58,936 --> 00:17:00,651 I watched the whole thing on YouTube. 290 00:17:01,221 --> 00:17:02,571 Let's talk about. 291 00:17:03,016 --> 00:17:08,176 Marketing attribution and its role in this craziness. 292 00:17:08,206 --> 00:17:11,866 Now, it's is not something that I've ever been responsible for in the business. 293 00:17:11,926 --> 00:17:17,566 Again, this is why I've got you here with your expertise, but is marketing 294 00:17:17,566 --> 00:17:22,829 attribution the saviour for all of these problems, or is it sending 295 00:17:22,829 --> 00:17:24,686 us further down the wrong track? 296 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:26,590 So let me be very clear. 297 00:17:26,590 --> 00:17:26,620 Okay. 298 00:17:27,110 --> 00:17:32,210 I think this is Moni's Personal opinion marketing attribution 299 00:17:32,210 --> 00:17:34,190 is a complete and utter scam. 300 00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:34,670 Okay? 301 00:17:34,670 --> 00:17:35,840 It's a waste of time. 302 00:17:36,140 --> 00:17:36,950 It's a scam. 303 00:17:37,260 --> 00:17:38,300 It will never work. 304 00:17:38,550 --> 00:17:39,740 Don't it. 305 00:17:39,740 --> 00:17:39,980 Okay. 306 00:17:39,980 --> 00:17:43,090 That is, that is my humble personal opinion. 307 00:17:43,300 --> 00:17:47,230 I know it's a literal billion dollar industry, so it's going to 308 00:17:47,230 --> 00:17:50,920 like upset some people to say that, but I think it's a complete and 309 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,360 utter scam and a waste of time. 310 00:17:52,390 --> 00:17:54,460 There is no point to doing marketing attribution. 311 00:17:54,460 --> 00:17:57,370 And just to be clear for like maybe people who don't know who are listening to this. 312 00:17:58,090 --> 00:18:04,010 Marketing attribution is the concept of attributing a kind of result, Most 313 00:18:04,010 --> 00:18:09,590 likely pipeline revenue to marketing activities because we know conceptually 314 00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:14,510 that there isn't one thing that is driving people, it's multiple things across. 315 00:18:14,510 --> 00:18:19,430 So the idea of attribution is you can give credit to multiple 316 00:18:19,430 --> 00:18:23,630 marketing tactics and activities to say how they are contributing 317 00:18:23,630 --> 00:18:25,580 to bottom line pipeline revenue. 318 00:18:25,910 --> 00:18:26,570 No, you can't. 319 00:18:26,671 --> 00:18:33,001 Look, I watched your presentation in this video, as I said, and the piece 320 00:18:33,001 --> 00:18:38,011 that got to me probably most was the fact that for all this digital 321 00:18:38,011 --> 00:18:43,681 tracking, it doesn't have any real ability to track anything that happens 322 00:18:43,681 --> 00:18:46,771 between two real humans face to face. 323 00:18:47,291 --> 00:18:48,971 Or non-digital ways. 324 00:18:48,971 --> 00:18:53,201 And as you said earlier, word of mouth is so strong and should be one 325 00:18:53,201 --> 00:18:57,521 of our big focuses, and yet a lot of these tools I'm thinking aren't 326 00:18:57,671 --> 00:19:00,371 capturing this type of precious data. 327 00:19:00,371 --> 00:19:04,511 I think this is the most critical data that we could gather, but it's missing 328 00:19:04,511 --> 00:19:06,431 in action when it comes to the tools. 329 00:19:06,491 --> 00:19:10,121 And I just wonder what you have to say about this, you know, that 330 00:19:10,121 --> 00:19:11,531 you can share with our listeners. 331 00:19:11,955 --> 00:19:12,585 Yes. 332 00:19:12,585 --> 00:19:14,895 This is a theme again, fundamentals, right? 333 00:19:15,015 --> 00:19:19,635 Because these tools can't track offline activity very well. 334 00:19:19,665 --> 00:19:23,835 IE word of mouth and conversations, or even just like networking 335 00:19:23,835 --> 00:19:25,335 engagements and stuff like that. 336 00:19:25,875 --> 00:19:32,595 It overemphasises the digital tactics and under emphasises the offline 337 00:19:32,595 --> 00:19:37,085 ones where the offline ones have way more impact than the digital ones. 338 00:19:37,325 --> 00:19:41,930 So we do a bunch of digital stuff in order to attribute right some 339 00:19:41,930 --> 00:19:46,340 revenue when actually they are not the most valuable things that are 340 00:19:46,340 --> 00:19:47,990 important from a marketing standpoint. 341 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,490 So you end up spinning your wheels, even if everything kind of goes right, you 342 00:19:52,490 --> 00:19:57,680 still making assumptions about why someone is engaging with you to begin with. 343 00:19:57,950 --> 00:20:01,160 You assume someone's downloading your white paper or attending 344 00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:03,410 your webinar because they have intentions of buying from you. 345 00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:04,130 Says who? 346 00:20:04,465 --> 00:20:05,305 Where did you get that from? 347 00:20:05,695 --> 00:20:07,135 Like you just made that up. 348 00:20:07,135 --> 00:20:09,475 You just assume they're ready for your sales cycle. 349 00:20:09,685 --> 00:20:10,135 How? 350 00:20:10,405 --> 00:20:14,635 So it's it's an assumption based model to begin with because it 351 00:20:14,635 --> 00:20:19,932 assumes that every task that you're tracking has some impact on revenue. 352 00:20:20,552 --> 00:20:21,882 It doesn't. 353 00:20:22,802 --> 00:20:23,202 Right. 354 00:20:23,274 --> 00:20:23,564 Ouch. 355 00:20:23,622 --> 00:20:25,302 So you're setting yourself off to fail to begin with. 356 00:20:25,569 --> 00:20:26,349 Oh dear. 357 00:20:26,739 --> 00:20:30,249 Look, and I don't think anyone does this intentionally because 358 00:20:30,279 --> 00:20:32,379 you know, with all of the tools that are out there, they're pretty 359 00:20:32,379 --> 00:20:34,899 slick at their marketing in general. 360 00:20:34,899 --> 00:20:41,329 And I think to be fair to marketers, a lot of them feel like right now That 361 00:20:41,329 --> 00:20:45,439 they have to justify their existence with the large language models. 362 00:20:45,499 --> 00:20:46,789 AI coming for them. 363 00:20:46,789 --> 00:20:49,429 Everybody expects them to be experts at everything. 364 00:20:49,819 --> 00:20:54,049 Are you doing your job when it's really difficult to put 365 00:20:54,049 --> 00:20:57,109 a number on things like brand? 366 00:20:57,139 --> 00:21:01,489 You know, like, and, and so you know, this is, I can see why people are drawn 367 00:21:01,489 --> 00:21:06,889 to it and I can see the advantages, but as you said, I also see how this is taking 368 00:21:06,889 --> 00:21:12,269 people Down the wrong path, as far away as possible from these marketing fundamentals 369 00:21:12,569 --> 00:21:17,099 that I know in their heart they know are the right thing to be focused on. 370 00:21:17,429 --> 00:21:21,599 But trying to get that conversation across the line with other colleagues, 371 00:21:21,809 --> 00:21:25,709 I think is maybe where some of this tricky stuff comes from. 372 00:21:25,949 --> 00:21:29,729 What would you say to somebody that's struggling and listening 373 00:21:29,729 --> 00:21:33,929 to this and going, I absolutely agree with what Moni has to say. 374 00:21:33,989 --> 00:21:39,034 I know that she's right, but I can't have That conversation in my business 375 00:21:39,034 --> 00:21:40,204 'cause people aren't listening. 376 00:21:40,204 --> 00:21:42,334 I'm sure you've come up against it before. 377 00:21:42,815 --> 00:21:44,690 It is the number one response that I get. 378 00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:45,200 Right. 379 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:46,550 It's like, I agree with you. 380 00:21:46,550 --> 00:21:47,240 You're right. 381 00:21:47,300 --> 00:21:51,230 I don't know how to have this conversation with my boss, C-level, whoever. 382 00:21:51,230 --> 00:21:51,560 Right. 383 00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,010 It's classic and I experienced that too. 384 00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:55,030 Like you're not alone. 385 00:21:55,030 --> 00:21:59,230 Like I was in corporate for 15 years trying to have these conversations 386 00:21:59,410 --> 00:22:01,270 and getting stiff armed in the face. 387 00:22:01,372 --> 00:22:01,662 Yeah. 388 00:22:01,690 --> 00:22:03,130 so I totally understand it. 389 00:22:03,490 --> 00:22:07,180 I think the thing that we have to do first is empathise. 390 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:07,650 Right. 391 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:11,160 One of the things that I had to do was be like, if I'm gonna put myself 392 00:22:11,190 --> 00:22:16,290 in C-level shoes, that pressure is coming from somewhere, right? 393 00:22:16,340 --> 00:22:21,230 The board or the private equity or whoever wants their money, 394 00:22:22,340 --> 00:22:25,520 like they gave this company a lot of money and they want it back. 395 00:22:25,580 --> 00:22:28,850 So that pressure is coming from that, right? 396 00:22:28,900 --> 00:22:29,980 So that's, that's one. 397 00:22:30,510 --> 00:22:33,140 Number two is communication. 398 00:22:33,860 --> 00:22:38,795 What I had to understand is the, they don't fundamentally understand 399 00:22:38,795 --> 00:22:44,096 marketing, so the only way they can communicate the fact that I need to 400 00:22:44,096 --> 00:22:50,066 know what you're doing so I can then communicate that back is through money. 401 00:22:50,186 --> 00:22:52,926 That's the only way they have to communicate that with. 402 00:22:53,686 --> 00:22:55,286 They're looking for validation. 403 00:22:55,286 --> 00:23:00,276 They're looking for, if I give you money, how do I know that you're not wasting it? 404 00:23:00,686 --> 00:23:01,016 Okay. 405 00:23:01,016 --> 00:23:02,246 That's what they want to know. 406 00:23:02,576 --> 00:23:06,086 You can do that through validation. 407 00:23:06,116 --> 00:23:09,746 It's your job marketer to move the perspective. 408 00:23:09,926 --> 00:23:10,286 Okay? 409 00:23:10,286 --> 00:23:10,736 It's right. 410 00:23:10,736 --> 00:23:15,356 This perspective right now is all on analytics and you know, pipeline revenue. 411 00:23:15,626 --> 00:23:18,566 What they really just want is assurance and validation. 412 00:23:18,926 --> 00:23:21,291 If you kind of work through what I said like. 413 00:23:22,286 --> 00:23:26,516 some feedback from your prospects, not your customer, your prospects, 414 00:23:26,516 --> 00:23:29,816 the people you're going after of this is the right issue. 415 00:23:30,146 --> 00:23:31,226 This is the problem. 416 00:23:31,296 --> 00:23:37,066 This is psychological, emotional, right response that they are 417 00:23:37,066 --> 00:23:40,516 looking for, and you can feed that back into your marketing. 418 00:23:40,546 --> 00:23:44,746 It gives some assurance that like, okay, we now understand we have to do. 419 00:23:45,046 --> 00:23:46,516 Here's the campaign that we're gonna run. 420 00:23:46,606 --> 00:23:48,166 This is what we're gonna be expecting from it. 421 00:23:48,196 --> 00:23:49,636 If it doesn't work, we have the problem. 422 00:23:49,636 --> 00:23:52,606 We just need to tweak these sorts of things and then move forward. 423 00:23:52,906 --> 00:23:57,436 Then we can crawl, walk, run to getting you to the actual revenue. 424 00:23:57,466 --> 00:23:57,946 And guess what? 425 00:23:58,006 --> 00:24:02,626 You'll be focusing on Your audience, your actual customer's, prospects, 426 00:24:02,836 --> 00:24:06,766 getting real information from them, and that's gonna help you be 427 00:24:06,766 --> 00:24:08,776 successful at marketing ultimately. 428 00:24:09,343 --> 00:24:14,143 And that's all I want for our listeners of this podcast, is them to be successful 429 00:24:14,143 --> 00:24:17,413 at marketing and generate the results that the business is looking at. 430 00:24:17,413 --> 00:24:19,243 So I appreciate you expanding on that. 431 00:24:19,573 --> 00:24:23,593 There's one last thing that I want to talk about, which I, I know 432 00:24:23,593 --> 00:24:25,453 you're also passionate about this. 433 00:24:26,228 --> 00:24:31,018 Sometimes out there in B2B land, it could be the B2B Institute, it could 434 00:24:31,018 --> 00:24:33,208 be the Edelman Research Institute. 435 00:24:33,218 --> 00:24:36,218 There's all kinds of places that information comes from, but 436 00:24:36,218 --> 00:24:39,728 sometimes there's some B2B stats that get thrown out there that 437 00:24:39,728 --> 00:24:42,758 become gospel and we run with them. 438 00:24:42,998 --> 00:24:47,858 And one of those ones is that, you know, 70% of the buyer's journey 439 00:24:47,858 --> 00:24:51,638 is done before they reach out, that we all wanna be self-serving, 440 00:24:51,818 --> 00:24:53,798 we don't wanna talk to people. 441 00:24:54,123 --> 00:24:58,863 And I think that sent marketing down a path as well that 442 00:24:58,923 --> 00:25:00,903 maybe isn't really beneficial. 443 00:25:01,293 --> 00:25:02,943 Can you talk through your views on this? 444 00:25:02,973 --> 00:25:09,816 'cause I really enjoyed actually making myself stop and think, how 445 00:25:09,816 --> 00:25:11,656 is this driving my behaviours? 446 00:25:11,676 --> 00:25:14,106 Just as much as what I'm guiding my clients. 447 00:25:14,676 --> 00:25:18,576 Are we going down the wrong path if we just take this as gospel? 448 00:25:18,837 --> 00:25:24,477 Yeah, I think it's the, probably the most widely misinterpreted stat in, all 449 00:25:24,477 --> 00:25:26,907 of B2B marketing, because you're right. 450 00:25:26,907 --> 00:25:29,787 What people hear with that stat is that, you know, 70% of the buyer's 451 00:25:29,787 --> 00:25:32,007 journey is already done before they reach out to a sales person, is 452 00:25:32,007 --> 00:25:37,957 that I need to create more content so they can research on their own. 453 00:25:38,557 --> 00:25:44,427 What that stat really means is I don't want to be sold to, so I'm gonna 454 00:25:44,427 --> 00:25:48,387 avoid you as much as possible until I'm ready to actually buy something 455 00:25:48,387 --> 00:25:52,908 because Everybody knows as soon as I fill out this form, I'm gonna get 456 00:25:52,938 --> 00:25:57,048 8,000 emails and I'm gonna get hammered with a bunch of sales calls, right? 457 00:25:57,048 --> 00:26:00,018 It's like, and I'm not ready for that yet. 458 00:26:00,078 --> 00:26:04,008 I'm not ready for that level of pressure, so I'm just gonna wait. 459 00:26:04,368 --> 00:26:06,438 They would love to talk to a salesperson, right? 460 00:26:06,438 --> 00:26:07,518 I need information. 461 00:26:07,578 --> 00:26:10,068 I wanna know what the price of this thing is, you know, and I wanna 462 00:26:10,068 --> 00:26:12,618 know the features, I wanna know how it compares this other thing. 463 00:26:12,618 --> 00:26:16,878 I'd love to talk to somebody about that, but as soon as I do, I know I'm 464 00:26:16,878 --> 00:26:19,998 opening the floodgates to get hammered and pressured because salesperson 465 00:26:19,998 --> 00:26:23,748 gotta make quota and they're gonna be on my neck for the next however long. 466 00:26:23,808 --> 00:26:24,078 Right? 467 00:26:24,078 --> 00:26:28,258 So the understanding is they're not trying to self-educate. 468 00:26:28,258 --> 00:26:28,538 Okay? 469 00:26:28,798 --> 00:26:32,728 They're trying to avoid being sold to and pressured, and that's 470 00:26:32,728 --> 00:26:33,988 the interpretation of the stat. 471 00:26:34,581 --> 00:26:37,576 Yeah, it's a little challenging in my mind. 472 00:26:37,626 --> 00:26:39,976 Again, coming from the sales side of things. 473 00:26:40,806 --> 00:26:46,086 I did see in a world where you have access to so much information that people 474 00:26:46,086 --> 00:26:50,796 had done a lot of the research before they came to me, that was just a given. 475 00:26:51,096 --> 00:26:54,426 And we were talking more about logistics, like you said, like it 476 00:26:54,426 --> 00:26:56,616 could be pricing, when's it available? 477 00:26:56,856 --> 00:26:59,226 You know, should I take this model or that model? 478 00:26:59,226 --> 00:27:02,946 And you know, I worked in an industry, the beauty industry in manufacturing 479 00:27:02,946 --> 00:27:07,831 and You know, our sales cycles were probably 18 months to 24 months 480 00:27:07,831 --> 00:27:09,541 in general, so a couple of years. 481 00:27:09,751 --> 00:27:15,571 So of course people were doing their research along the way just in case, 482 00:27:15,571 --> 00:27:19,831 or getting ready for when they may actually need it, or they may never have 483 00:27:19,831 --> 00:27:23,456 reached out, I wouldn't have known, but it was just something that I thought. 484 00:27:24,321 --> 00:27:29,031 We always seem to default to more content as being the answer. 485 00:27:29,481 --> 00:27:34,031 And when we do more of the wrong things I remember when I was younger, you know, 486 00:27:34,031 --> 00:27:39,041 and Lil's gonna laugh at me because I refer back to my childhood athletics days. 487 00:27:39,201 --> 00:27:41,061 It was my whole, like my glory days. 488 00:27:41,746 --> 00:27:45,106 And I remember training with my mum who was teaching me, you know, 489 00:27:45,106 --> 00:27:46,456 and training me in the backyard. 490 00:27:46,816 --> 00:27:50,416 And you know, we were talking about how practice makes perfect. 491 00:27:50,656 --> 00:27:55,006 And she pulled me up and she said, no, perfect practice makes perfect. 492 00:27:55,006 --> 00:27:59,776 If you keep doing more of the wrong things over and over and over again, 493 00:28:00,106 --> 00:28:01,486 you don't actually get any better. 494 00:28:01,486 --> 00:28:02,926 You don't get closer to your goals. 495 00:28:02,926 --> 00:28:05,776 You don't break those records that you're looking to do. 496 00:28:06,076 --> 00:28:10,656 And so I find now that people, we've got so many tools That we can 497 00:28:10,656 --> 00:28:13,896 use to create content at volume. 498 00:28:13,896 --> 00:28:18,636 Like you've, you've got no one's business, it's never been easier to 499 00:28:18,636 --> 00:28:24,846 create more content, but if it's not the right content, it is literally useless. 500 00:28:25,086 --> 00:28:28,216 And I would say even sending you backwards, which You know, 501 00:28:28,216 --> 00:28:31,246 in, in today's world, we don't need any help going backwards. 502 00:28:31,246 --> 00:28:35,266 There's enough life pressures, world pressures, industry pressures 503 00:28:35,356 --> 00:28:36,586 that we just don't need that. 504 00:28:36,586 --> 00:28:40,816 And I think that's where I've been taking a second look at this, the 505 00:28:40,816 --> 00:28:46,516 answer, customer research, serving our customers, those marketing fundamentals. 506 00:28:46,876 --> 00:28:51,346 Is there anything as we wrap the episode up today, if I gave you one last thing, 507 00:28:51,346 --> 00:28:55,276 one last chance to share something that you're passionate about, what 508 00:28:55,276 --> 00:28:56,686 would you leave our listeners with? 509 00:28:57,090 --> 00:29:01,710 Yeah, I think I would love to give an example of like what it really means 510 00:29:01,710 --> 00:29:03,900 to sort of understand your customer. 511 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:05,790 'cause I feel like people will be like, well, what do you 512 00:29:05,790 --> 00:29:07,260 mean I, I totally understand. 513 00:29:07,260 --> 00:29:07,860 Well, you know what I mean? 514 00:29:07,860 --> 00:29:08,400 I get it. 515 00:29:08,820 --> 00:29:12,240 And it's, you don't really understand how surface you are with it. 516 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,880 So I spend a lot of my corporate time in cybersecurity. 517 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,970 It's one of the toughest industries to market in. 518 00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:18,110 'cause that's a very. 519 00:29:18,663 --> 00:29:19,413 They're tough, right? 520 00:29:19,413 --> 00:29:22,923 They know all the games, you know, they're very skeptical. 521 00:29:23,013 --> 00:29:23,613 It's tough. 522 00:29:24,173 --> 00:29:27,983 One of the things that about cybersecurity is like, it's very technical. 523 00:29:28,013 --> 00:29:31,763 All the marketing is super, super technical around like, you know, 524 00:29:31,823 --> 00:29:34,643 internet of things and network security and all these high 525 00:29:34,643 --> 00:29:36,203 level terms and stuff like that. 526 00:29:36,750 --> 00:29:41,970 What people miss about that audience is that the psychology 527 00:29:41,970 --> 00:29:49,060 of it is 99% of the things right and 1% wrong, and that's my job. 528 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:49,990 Like I screwed up. 529 00:29:49,990 --> 00:29:50,470 It's over. 530 00:29:50,710 --> 00:29:53,620 Like what's it like, that's your day. 531 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:54,850 Do you know what I mean? 532 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,170 It's like, you know. 533 00:29:56,745 --> 00:30:00,435 Nobody in this organisation really values what I do. 534 00:30:00,615 --> 00:30:03,525 But if something goes wrong, they're the ones that looking at me. 535 00:30:03,555 --> 00:30:05,325 No one looks at me when everything is right. 536 00:30:05,325 --> 00:30:07,155 They only look at me when something goes wrong. 537 00:30:07,395 --> 00:30:07,695 Right? 538 00:30:07,905 --> 00:30:13,190 That kind of thing, like marketing to that with that kind of understanding Will 539 00:30:13,190 --> 00:30:17,600 change the language in which you use the messaging to then talk to that audience, 540 00:30:17,750 --> 00:30:21,560 but you don't see it because we hang on the surface of all the technical stuff, 541 00:30:21,620 --> 00:30:25,814 and here's the, the technical problem and not the issue with the actual individual 542 00:30:25,814 --> 00:30:29,455 what I mean is, go back to human, right? 543 00:30:29,485 --> 00:30:30,745 Who is this person? 544 00:30:30,745 --> 00:30:33,175 They're a 3D person, right? 545 00:30:33,385 --> 00:30:37,230 They have feelings, they have emotions, they have Faults, they have motivations. 546 00:30:37,500 --> 00:30:39,210 They're what is their day to day like? 547 00:30:39,210 --> 00:30:40,650 What is those pressures like? 548 00:30:40,650 --> 00:30:44,490 What is the environment that they sit in and come from it from that 549 00:30:44,490 --> 00:30:48,960 point of view, that will improve your marketing tenfold, I promise you. 550 00:30:49,260 --> 00:30:53,340 Versus just, you know, they need a security set. 551 00:30:53,340 --> 00:30:56,670 There's a phishing problem, and now we need network security, right? 552 00:30:56,670 --> 00:30:58,110 Which is what everybody says and does. 553 00:30:58,430 --> 00:31:03,530 So that's just an example of like, what do I mean by really understand the person? 554 00:31:03,890 --> 00:31:07,280 'cause that's gonna inform your marketing and take you to levels that are, 555 00:31:07,340 --> 00:31:09,950 you're gonna dominate if you do that. 556 00:31:10,053 --> 00:31:11,643 Yeah, lead with empathy. 557 00:31:11,643 --> 00:31:16,413 Actually put yourself in their shoes and understand what is a day in the life 558 00:31:16,413 --> 00:31:21,183 of that person on the other side that You are trying to, you know, influence 559 00:31:21,183 --> 00:31:24,873 their buying decisions at some point or someone within their business. 560 00:31:24,873 --> 00:31:28,803 And I, I think that is the thing again, that you and I are just so 561 00:31:28,803 --> 00:31:32,913 aligned with that we keep skipping over the important parts, which is 562 00:31:32,913 --> 00:31:34,533 the people that we are there to serve. 563 00:31:34,533 --> 00:31:37,563 And this plays out in LinkedIn content when we're talking 564 00:31:37,563 --> 00:31:39,003 about marketing fundamentals. 565 00:31:39,588 --> 00:31:43,848 This shows up in the types of content that you're putting out there and 566 00:31:43,848 --> 00:31:47,208 the wording you use and who it's directed at, and it could even 567 00:31:47,208 --> 00:31:48,558 be the graphics that you choose. 568 00:31:48,558 --> 00:31:50,478 There are so many different ways 569 00:31:50,540 --> 00:31:51,080 Yes. 570 00:31:51,138 --> 00:31:54,888 that this is playing out, not just on your website, not just in your email 571 00:31:54,888 --> 00:31:57,288 campaigns, but also on LinkedIn as well. 572 00:31:57,288 --> 00:32:01,128 So Moni, thank you so much for everything you've shared today. 573 00:32:01,128 --> 00:32:05,528 I appreciate Getting the insight from someone that's worked on the other side. 574 00:32:05,528 --> 00:32:09,758 It's like a, a, a look for me into that world that I can't get 575 00:32:09,758 --> 00:32:11,078 because I've never been there. 576 00:32:11,078 --> 00:32:14,468 So I appreciate you sharing all your experience with the listeners. 577 00:32:15,485 --> 00:32:17,315 Thank you so much for having me. 578 00:32:17,315 --> 00:32:18,545 I appreciate it. 579 00:32:18,575 --> 00:32:23,975 I'm always down for a lively conversation So thanks for having me on, Michelle. 580 00:32:24,098 --> 00:32:26,368 We might have to come back and have those other six hours of 581 00:32:26,368 --> 00:32:28,168 conversations in another episode. 582 00:32:28,168 --> 00:32:29,248 But thank you so much. 583 00:32:29,248 --> 00:32:33,208 And listeners, I will be putting all the details on how you can connect with Moni. 584 00:32:33,448 --> 00:32:38,908 I absolutely highly encourage everyone to go and check out the presentation 585 00:32:38,908 --> 00:32:43,168 she did on marketing attribution because I think it's gonna have you really 586 00:32:43,168 --> 00:32:46,468 questioning some of the things that you may have thought were important, but maybe 587 00:32:46,468 --> 00:32:48,268 not as important as you once thought. 588 00:32:48,268 --> 00:32:49,978 So until next week listeners, cheers.