we've got so many things

to talk about today.

I feel that there are

other things to talk about.

Like the sun is shining

and it's springtime,

so now is the time to

get into our gardens.

And this is not the start

of a Gardening Australia.

episode.

Today we have our

very good friend Nadia

Cole from Platylobium.

Nadia, how are you?

Good, thank you.

Thanks for having me.

We're excited.

It's gonna be fun.

Now full disclosure,

my wife actually

works for Nadia.

I tried to poach my

wife to work for Sanctum

Homes for so many years

and she kept refusing

and in swooped Nadia.

That's not true.

Hey Nadia, We're

builders, why should we

care about landscaping?

Because landscaping

is complete extension

to your house.

It's an outdoor room

and it's just as big, if

not, well, hopefully much

bigger than the house and

should be enjoyed just

as much as the house.

tell us a little bit about

you, your background, and

your company, Platylobium?

I started off doing

Hort at Melbourne

Uni, when I was 18 and

continued on and Lucy

and I actually, uh, have

studied exactly the same.

We've, gone through and

done conservation ecology.

So we both pull in from

a Hort background as well

as a ecology background.

I studied through

Melbourne and Deakin and

then worked alongside

in the environmental

management field.

So working for a company

called Indigenous Design

for 14 years, , working

on Both residential and

commercial landscapes,

as well as, nursery

production, environmental

management, all the

way through to native

veg offsets and

bushfire management.

So huge amount

I learned then.

, I had a Bubba and then

decided to start my

own business, which

was nine years ago.

It was a bit of a slow

burn for quite some

time, just ticking along

and finding our feet.

, I got my brother on board

and he sort of helped me

build and then., We've

had a turbulent few years

in, in Platt and managing

the ups and downs of

working in an industry

that's probably copped

it a little bit, from the

economic side of things.

But yeah, we're

predominantly native,

plant based, environmental,

conscious sustainable

landscape design company

that really focuses on more

softscape than hardscape.

So when you use the

word sustainable, I

want to understand

this a little bit more.

isn't all planting

plants sustainable?

yeah, we sort of start

with the hard landscape

side of things.

So when you're talking

about sustainable

landscape, depending

on the client's needs

and wishes, we really

try and steer it into

less hard construction.

So, not.

paving huge areas or

putting a huge amount of

concrete into landscapes

or hard landscape

construction that's pulling

on materials that are

dragged from halfway around

the world and creating

more of a green space,

which is going to soften,

cool, provide habitat.

And compliment sort

of local environments.

So yeah, you can pick the

right plants for the local

area that don't require

a huge amount of water.

You can pick plants

that are used to local

conditions rather than

putting in a European

garden that's going to

need a whole lot of,

fertilizers and nutrients

brought in and a whole

bucket load of water.

So you're sort of looking

at what the requirements

are for the garden.

So something that's

a bit softer.

So, is the European

garden like the old Greek

garden that has these

tomatoes and olives?

Is that what we're

talking about?

More like box hedges and

perennial borders and a

whole lot of stuff that's

not used to growing.

So when we talk about local

plants, we're talking about

Australian native plants

that are Australian, and

then you've got plants

that are more local to

Warrandyte or Fairfield

or, you know, so you can

pull in stuff that's going

to be used to that soil.

particularly, and not

want a whole lot of

conditions that we're

dragging over from Europe.

Yeah, okay.

So you try just

to use essentially

Australian products

Yeah.

Yep.

Australian plants that are

used to the environment.

So we're not filling

it full of water and

it becomes a real

labor intensive garden.

yeah.

And why should people

then care?

Like, why should they

care about what goes

in to the backyard?

Isn't it just

planting a plant?

That's a really

good question.

Depends how interested

you are in the garden.

Yeah.

Like lots of people I don't

care and it is a green

plant and it looks green

and it's great, but there

is, side of it where we

can encourage local fauna

you know, add back in that

habitat that's been removed

reduce our water bills.

Really protect the ground

that was there and not, you

know, bring in excavators

and bobcats and bucket

loads of soil to try

and change conditions

to put a landscape in.

Why not try and work

with what we've got

when we want to, you're

trying to utilize native

plants because they're

local to the area.

Have these like

been stripped out

over time because it

was just too hard.

So you're trying to

bring them back or yeah.

think about what

was here originally,

or you go to like a

reserve in Warrandyte.

For example, where

I've grown work.

We're designing a project

in Web Street at the moment

in Warrandyte, and she

wants a lower maintenance,

which we can't say they're

low maintenance, but we've

got to try and pick plants

that are going to grow

in those soil conditions.

Because it's like

rock, clay, and then a

very minimal topsoil.

So the plants that were

growing there originally,

if you go into the State

Park, you can get a really

good plant palette of

stuff that was growing

there and put it into a

landscape and make it look

more organised and formal.

But it's going to adapt

to those local conditions

because it used to

grow there originally.

So I think it's just

important to confirm or,

or clarify that there's

native plants and then

there's Indigenous plants.

So Indigenous

plants are native to

Australia, but they're

Indigenous to that area.

So

I guess I've got the

advantage that I've

got a pretty intimate

relationship with

Platylobium I know what

their philosophy is.

so I guess I'm a couple

of steps ahead in

understanding, but the

importance of indigenous

plants are one, they're

accustomed to that

environment where they

are, they're going to

attract that local fauna.

Back into that garden,

which is probably what

we're missing a lot in our

neighborhoods, maybe not so

much in Morondite, because

it's still pretty leafy.

So, am I right in saying

that I guess your approach

is first and foremost

native, and then trying

to adapt those landscapes

to what was there before?

Briar.

I

Or using species that

were there prior, I think

can make a really good

palette, but also trying

to encourage clients not

to put stuff in that is

considered an environmental

way that could escape

into gardens or birds

could take the seeds and

spread them into local

reserves and become an

environmental issue.

So there's making

conscious decisions about

what to put in from a.

exotic perspective, stuff

that's not going to spread,

picking native stuff

that's adapted to the soil.

So you're not loading

up on water use and

bringing in a whole lot

of fertilizers and stuff

to change soil conditions.

So I a number of choices

along the way that I

think you can make and

be very conscious about

being responsible with the

plants that you select.

So me being naive again,

here on this whole

topic, aren't all native

plants indigenous?

They're indigenous to

where they are originally

formed, I suppose.

So you might have a plant

that comes from Western

Australia and we'll use it,

we'll use it in Melbourne,

like kangaroo paws.

We'll, we use them in

our gardens all the time,

but they're originally

from Western Australia.

So that'd be specifically

indigenous to a local

area in Western Australia,

Okay, so when we talk

about indigenous, there's

a like, it's like the

suburb but native is

just Australian plant.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's a great book called

The Flora of Melbourne

that goes through and talks

about all the different

bioregions, which is to

do with the soil type.

So those plants will

grow specifically like

in the volcanic plains.

So out west, and you won't

have them grow in those

valleys or foothills sort

of through, you Dandenongs

or that sort of area.

So the Flora of Melbourne

goes through and maps

all the species across

Melbourne and where

they're indigenous to.

It doesn't mean they're

not going to grow,

they'll grow over in WA

potentially, but the beauty

of picking stuff that's

just used to the soil.

European plants grow in

Australia too, but if

we want a garden that's

robust and is used to our

changing seasons, obviously

Indigenous or Native and

then Indigenous plants are

probably the better choice.

So I'm curious to

know about your

approach to design.

we've got an audience

of builders here.

So if you were to come on

to any of our listeners

projects, do you want

to come in when we've

handed over the project

and just hand it over

to you in a way you go,

or what's your ideal,

timeline of coming in?

with the architect,

usually, or before the

builder, or working with

the builder during those

early stages, so we can

reduce a whole lot of cost

for the property owner in

maybe digging that pool,

which isn't necessarily

something that's hugely

sustainable, but it's

going to be a lot easier to

dig with a bigger machine

without a house in the way.

Yeah, I get like the

drainage stuff, right?

All those little things.

Yeah, absolutely.

Get it all in before

the house is built and

get the levels right

and get the best use of

having a access into that

backyard before we block

it all off with a house.

Yep.

So build all those big

solid concrete retaining

walls out the back first.

or get some rocks in

or something that's

a bit softer, but

if we've got some

earthworks that

need to be softened.

Well, they're softer

than a, than a big

fat retaining wall.

Absolutely.

They look a lot softer.

We can soften them with

plants a lot better.

the rocks that I bring

out of the ground during

like, we're digging

for a slab, they're not

the rocks we're talking

about though, are they?

Depends where you are.

So if you're out west

and you've got some

basalt floaters that are

popping out of the ground.

Yeah, we can be

great to use them.

On the site.

They're nuts.

a really good example of

where it would be good,

you know, if the build is

digging out stuff rather

than ordering rocks and

getting them delivered

and having all of that

cartage why not use them

on site rather than get

rid of them or break

them up into, gravel.

So I think coming in early

allows us all also to maybe

tweak a couple of designs.

I know Hamish, we've done

a couple of projects with

you where we've come in

and talked about maybe

where trees can go.

So, and even Matt with

you, like where drainage

needs to go through, but we

need to put some trees in.

So that we're going

to get that cooling

from the hot sun.

So let's not run the Aggie

pipe right through where

we need to put a beautiful,

big deciduous tree.

That's going to give

us some shading.

Cause otherwise that's

just not going to work.

We're just not going to

get it in the right spot.

Yeah, this is the first job

where I've had like intense

landscape discussions And

I've learned lots, like

for me it was like I had

no idea where to start.

I thought landscaping

is literally going down

to Bunnings and buying

a plant and planting

it to the ground.

Oh no.

Hamish,

the look on Nadia's face.

And when Matt said

that was quite amusing,

but I think that is the,

that's the narrative

of probably so many

people that they don't

respect landscaping

and understand it.

your house, isn't it?

I mean, where you want

to entertain or enjoy

the outdoor space in the

warmer periods, it's so

important to make sure that

that all flows perfectly.

We've got the right levels

from inside to outside

where able to get those

trees in the right space.

It becomes a

whole nother room.

To your house that

can be used so well.

we've had lots

of conversations.

The project that we

worked on that, you

know, given where.

Construction prices are,

you know, we're extending

living rooms out beyond

the boundaries of those

external walls of the home.

And I guess encouraging

the inhabitants of the

home to utilize the space

outside, which, if we

are honest, per square

meter is a lot more cost

effective and approachable

to do rather than build a

bigger room, We all love

getting outside, right?

We all love being

part of nature.

There's so many studies

out there that prove

that being outside

in nature is actually

good for your health.

it's biophilic design.

Is that right?

Is that the

exactly.

Nadia can probably talk

to that a little bit

more than what I know.

But yeah,

Yeah.

suppose there's lots

of buzzwords around all

of that, but I mean,

what we aim for is,

getting vegetation into

soften and also bring

down that temperature.

If you've got a house

with a whole massive paved

section around the outside.

And we haven't got

any trees in there.

We've got fences it's

going to be bloody hot.

It's going to make

the house hotter.

It's going to make the

landscape hotter and we're

not going to enjoy it.

We're not going

to go outside in

summer and enjoy it.

Whereas if we reduce all

of that to smaller areas,

more permeable surfaces

to keep all the water on

site and feed the garden.

So when it rains, it

doesn't go on the hard

surface and go down

the stormwater drain.

We've got trays and

plants that are.

Providing habitat for

birds specifically,

know, a lot of our

local flora and fauna.

much more enjoyable

landscape to sit out

as an extension to the

house and enjoy when

it's warm and spend time.

I know that's where

I'd want to be,

so obviously Hamish

is Warrandyte, are you

Warrandyte as well?

So like you've got a lot

more open space, like

your driveway is probably

as big as my whole block

of square meterage.

How do we start to

incorporate this

type of design on

smaller properties?

Because there's not

much space to work

with and everyone wants

to fill up every gap

with a building now.

Great question, Matt.

a good question.

I suppose that comes back

to working with architects

and builders to try Reduce

house size for a start.

But where there is

availability for landscape,

not filling it full of

hardscape, making sure

we're finding every little

nook and cranny opportunity

for a small tree, not a big

tree, a small tree creepers

that go up the fence pots

that are full of plants.

You know, there's still

ways of integrating

it so that it's not.

a full hardscape with

what you've got left.

Because it's probably

more important, inner

city is way more important

to be putting plants

and planting trees maybe

than the outer suburbs.

Especially with heat

urban island effect.

I know that's quite a

topical conversation.

I personally think

landscaping, just not

the house, but also

councils need to spend

way more money on

landscaping, properly.

a nice segue into

like, urban heat

island effect, Nadia.

Can you maybe talk

to what that actually

means and how we can

go about reducing it?

mean, we did a great

project with Melbourne

Water probably about

four years ago.

It was called the Urban

Cooling Project, sort

of through Maribyrnong

through there.

And a lot of the houses are

sort of back to back, built

really close together,

big fences, abutting some

of the nature reserves,

but there's no trees.

There's none.

So what our job was,

was to go through and

introduce back in a lot

of the local or indigenous

canopy species and big

patches of vegetation

through those areas that

have buttered a lot of

these new housing estates

to try and get those

trees in to help bring

that temperature down.

Thank you.

And provide shading to

a lot of the properties

through those new estates.

that's a huge scale.

That was.

massive.

That was putting in, I

think, 15, 000 trays that

were, 20 metre canopies.

That was a lot.

But, you know, you can

bring it right back down

to a small residential

block and looking at,

there's no trees here.

There's no vegetation here.

There's nothing.

Let's try and

get something in.

To at least get some

canopy cover that links

all those habitat corridors

together and links all

of the vegetation to help

put that back into place.

you know, , it can

be local, property

agenda for a property

owner that's going to

link into that bigger

picture of concentrating

on projects like what

Melbourne Water plug into,

I'd like you to

fact check me here.

when you're under

a big tree, right?

And it's shading

you from the sun.

Am I right in saying that

that tree also, and I'm

going to use inverted

commas here, also sweats,

that like, helps to cool

the space around that tree?

Is that

Yeah, Yeah, absolutely.

So if you imagine you had

a big long string of trees

down a road and you're

walking down it in the

middle of, on a 40 degree

day, if there was that on

the other side of the road

with no trees, being in

that, area with no shade,

that concrete in a 40

degree day, it's probably

gonna be north of 50, 60

degrees.

Transpiration, is that

There's a great image,

I think it is like 40

degree variance of that.

you know, there's also the

one that goes from having

like fake turf through

to a planted garden.

And that that temperature

change like people think

with putting in fake

grass, that it's a nice

green space, but that.

It increases the

temperature massively,

so it's better to put

like a native lawn or

a ground cover or even

a lawn to help cool

that because you've got

that process in place

just like having trees.

So, I mean, apart from

being an aesthetic very

enjoyable visual, we

wouldn't be breathing

if we didn't have trees.

We wouldn't be living

if we didn't have trees.

are we not including

them in our landscape?

totally agree.

I think we need to

plant way more on the

streets through Council.

We should be planting

them everywhere, as

many as they can.

Yep.

a very cost effective

method of doing it,

Because especially in

a predominantly heating

climate in Melbourne,

the black roofs actually

really help heat the house

mean it's the same with the

cost of building a pergola,

putting a roof on it.

Why wouldn't we put a

tree that's going to

block out that hot sun?

To provide some shelter

rather than putting a big,

structured, hard, mean,

we're obviously going

to sit under it if it's

raining, but why can't we

use trees and plants to

give us that cooling rather

than spending all this

money on hard landscape

It's not just for houses.

Like, I think governments

and councils need to

make big decision here

they're, they're liable

for creating spaces that

we can walk in as we heat

up here, like, how are

people going to start

walking down the streets

when there's no shade

in these hot days?

they're going to

jump in their car and

they're going to drive.

So we need, to create

way for people to still

not have to jump in

their car to drive 500

metres down the road

to go to the shops.

Another interesting debate,

which I will state that

I don't know the answer

to this question because

it's very complicated, but

we're, we're at a property

in Warrandyte yesterday,

beautiful block, beautiful

red box trees the whole

way through, but she's

been asked to remove

a huge amount of them

because of the defendable

space that's required

for Bushfire safety.

So when we go and balance

bushfire safety, ecology,

and also, retaining

Indigenous trees and all

of the cooling effects

and shelter and habitat

alongside a bushfire

overlay, it becomes a

very complicated debate.

What overlay?

Do you know what it is?

Is it Fizon

It's a bushfire

Yeah, bushfire

management overlay.

So within their defendable

space and it's a steep

block, it's Warrandyte,

they're required to,

I don't know, I can't

remember, I don't know the

exact, but say 50 metres

you're not allowed to

have canopy overhanging

the house, 10 metres

from the house, we're not

allowed to have canopy,

we've got to have canopy

not touching, we're not

allowed to plant shrubs

underneath that canopy.

So, moving into

these areas.

because you, you love

the bush and you love

having that vegetation

around you, but we've

also got to remove it.

we're going slightly off

topic here, but on our

own house, we've got,

20 beautiful red box

surrounding our house.

Now, we could, no

problem, take every

single one of them down.

But at the moment,

we've just put in for

a, a barn in our front

paddock, and there's four

macrocarpa cypress there.

And because we've got

significant landscape

overlay, and it's

specifically SLO2, we have

to go to planning and fight

to take those macrocarpas

down, being a weed,

because it's part of SLO2,

which is river canopy.

Now, point I'm trying

to make, the irony is

that they're happy for

me to just bulldoze

all the beautiful red

boxes here, but they're

protecting the cypress.

can't compute the two.

It doesn't make

any sense to me.

Cypress being a weed.

That's council though.

Like if there's any form

of common sense with

councils, or you could

find a harder way to do

something, they find it,

isn't that their job?

I'm just,

Nadia, Can you talk about

the importance of diversity

in the other landscapes

that you guys do.

And I guess your

goals when you're

designing a landscape.

Right.

I suppose purely from a

vegetation perspective,

what we like to make sure

that we've got, if we are

looking at designing a

garden to really showcase

local species, but

provide habitat for local

fauna is having those

layers of vegetation.

and that's the tricky part

with smaller properties

is having a small tree.

Lots of our indigenous

trees are too big for our

small resi blocks because

they're sort of sitting

at 20 or 30 meters tall.

So we generally try to

bring something in that's a

non indigenous small yuki.

I'm going to go off

track here a little bit,

but that's considered

a nectar plant.

Because it's going to have

lots of flowers on it and

same with stuff that might

be a grevillea or a haykia.

So what we try and do is

not overload our plant

design with a lot of

those nectar plants as

that first higher level

layer, because that brings

all the bully birds in.

So it brings in all

the big birds that

are going to chase

away our little birds.

And the problem is with

A lot of our urban areas

is we've lost so many of

our small birds due to

predation or know, no sort

of smaller prickly plants.

So we try and

just put a few.

Canopy trees or nectar

plants in and then what

we're really trying to

include is small prickly

plants that are going to

provide habitat to those

small birds to get away

from the big bully birds.

Grasses and ground covers

that have got seeds or,

or, food available for

insects, which is going to

allow the birds to feed.

So we sort of try and

really put that whole

biodiversity package

into that design.

As well as it looking,

contemporary and

aesthetically pleasing from

a landscape perspective.

So it's still got an

organized feel from

a garden design.

It's not just a bush

patch but really trying

to incorporate a whole

lot of those layers.

I think is something that

we're really missing.

Hugely.

Do you also try and

include like food

producing areas into

your landscapes as well?

I

Yeah, absolutely.

I mean, it's on every

client's wish list.

The only thing is, is

they don't want it to look

ugly and it does, it can

tend to look really ugly.

So they don't maintain it

and it doesn't look good.

So they end up giving

up and it's not a good

place to, to play.

But we've had a really

good opportunity of working

with edible gardens.

So Karen Sutherland to

help incorporate some

food forests, Some

food produce areas.

I know you've got a

beautiful food produce area

proposed for your place.

Hey.

Which is gonna be

wonderful, but it's

about trying to find

space and having some of

those larger properties.

a dream boat , to have a

food forest and a produce

area as well as a, a

native vintage garden.

What's a food forest?

it's having a planted area

that's not necessarily in

an enclosure, but looking

at those different layers

and levels and having

that interaction between

all of the plants in

like a forest situation

that are going to provide

you with a food source.

It's coming a little

bit back down to natural

processes, I suppose,

them to all work together.

can you grow

anything you want?

Or we should we, there's

certain things we should

avoid trying to grow.

Look, this isn't my niche

area, like with this

project in Elphinton

that we're at at the

moment, they have got

everything in Elphinton,

and their whole wish

list has been fulfilled.

I mean, there's obviously

some things that are not

going to pick and grow

in the right climatic

conditions and you need

to have the male and

the female plant and

having enough space.

for joining us.

To get all of that

happening in a, in a small

resi block is challenging.

So it just depends,

but yeah, I think the

Elvington project is going

to be planted fingers

crossed soon, and it's

going to be a really

good example of what you

can do on a resi block.

so male and female plants,

how do you know, is

there a way to determine

or is it a bit of

Yeah, it's like male and

female birds, I suppose.

Yeah, they've got,

different flowers

and appear different.

Hey, can I ask you, what

is your favorite plant?

apart from a platylobium

because we all know

what that is, don't we?

Yeah.

Yeah.

tell us what a

plate opium is.

tell us

what a plate opium is.

Actually, Lucy bought

me one the other day to

put in my front garden

patch and it's flowering

and I'm so excited.

you

posted that on

Instagram, didn't you?

I did.

Yeah, I was very excited.

It's only been in the

ground a little while, but

yeah, look, that one is.

It's a, it's a

beautiful plant, but,

I don't know.

That's really hard.

It's like to say pick

your favorite child.

Pick your favorite

child Hamish.

No, no, I love them both.

They're both very different

and I love them very

Yeah.

Yeah.

Look, there's,

there's plenty.

There's so many Banksias

and Haykias and Kangaroo

paws and lots of

stunning ground covers

that a difficult pick,

but stick them all

together and I'm

pretty happy.

What do you hate?

What do I hate?

do you hate?

Yuckers.

I'm not a huge fan

of Westringers.

That's only because

we had about 5, 000

of them left over from

last year's garden show

and it just killed me.

What are those ones

they're they're like,

long and green they've

got that like purple

flower that come

out the middle.

I

don't know.

explains every plant.

long and green

doesn't, yeah.

That's, that was

really bad by

me.

They're, they've got

like a bulb at the bottom

when you rip them out,

I've

Agapanthus.

the ones, fuck,

I hate them.

one of my jobs on the

weekend is to to get Digby,

the problem solver, to um,

remove all the agapanthas

along our driveway and

track them into the

earth and bury them

who thought they

were a good idea?

They suck.

but do you know what?

People plant them

because they withstand

all sorts of conditions.

They're as tough as guts.

They've got big purple

or white flowers and

people love them.

would you say that

they're the cockroach

of the plant family?

Yes, that's a good way to

explain

it.

was ever a nuclear bomb

we'd have cockroaches,

agapanthas and my car.

And long

Do you know what I

mean now, the Do you

know what I mean now,

the long green things?

Does that make sense?

The problem is with

agapanthus is they

spread into the bush.

Like they can take off

and spread and they

really take up a huge

amount of space and really

kill the soil of, of

what an Indig or native

plant could, you know,

take up that position.

But You know, you could

argue that the benefits

of exotic versus natives

to the cows come home

with a lot of people.

we're not opposed to

putting exotic plants in,

but I think there's smart

choices that aren't going

to spread and into our

native bushland and take

over environment where

we could lose a whole

lot of native plants.

Oh,

probably some

business learnings

the last few years.

Yeah, I think I've learned

a huge amount with my

business and myself and

growing too quick and not

making decisions along the

way where I, I should the

last 12 months has probably

been the most difficult.

I've had a huge amount

of health issues.

That probably have taken

over from me making

good business decisions.

And

no one tells you how to

run a business either.

Like, it's not like you

get this playbook and

it's, hey, here, and

the only way that you

learn is from mistakes.

having watched from

the sidelines for a few

years, Nadia, I think

given, you're a mom and

you're a, small business

owner, and it has been

really challenging over

the last few years for

everybody in business.

I mean, I think you've

done an incredible

job, so you should

be proud of yourself.

Yeah,

Oh, thanks Hamish, I'm

not quite there yet,

like the health stuff

is much better now.

So I'm actually able to

get stuck back into it.

But you know, when you

want to wear all the

hats and you want to do

it really well, and you

just can't, cause you

haven't got enough time.

But you still do it.

it's really frustrating.

Are you ever there though?

That's the question

as a business owner.

Are you actually

ever there?

Because the

next thing comes

up, the new shiny

things, and so let's

do this and do that.

yeah, yeah.

classic small business

owner story, isn't it?

You know, there's always,

it's not just work.

There's all the

other things, all the

peripheral things that,

you know, you need to

keep moving as well.

can't do it on your own.

You, you need a whole lot

of people around you and

you don't know it all.

And I think you just

need to accept that

you don't know it all.

And you've got to

keep trying and

keep having a crack.

And I know that I

absolutely love what

I do and I don't want

to do anything else.

I don't want to not design

gardens and Lucy and I

are having an absolute

hoot where, got some

beautiful projects in that

are really to the core

of what Platt's about.

And it's, it's a, it's

a really good time.

, we have a whole network

of builders, listening

into this episode, Nadia.

you're a builder or a,

or a new client, are

people going to get

in contact with you?

yeah, via Instagram.

I mean, that's how

big one via email

jump on our website.

There's a contact page.

There's a whole lot

of different options.

We've really sort

of tried to scale, I

suppose, more so for the

clients, a lot of smaller

packages for people to.

dip their toe in

the process of, of

landscape design

without investing fully.

One hour consults are

a great way to kick

off and have a chat

about your landscape.

We offer remote

or face to face.

It's a good way to , get

going and have a chat

about what's important.

When the build is just

about to kick off, not

after the building, but I

mean, it's all workable.

It's all workable.

It's just a, it's a

really good outcome.

If we can all

work together.

Totally.

Thank you so much

for coming on today.

We really appreciate it.

Thanks.

a lot of stuff.

No worries.

Bye.