Welcome to Close it now, an H Vac sales training podcast with Sam Wakefield.

Here we'll build your reputation in residential H vac sales to be the expert influencer in your market.

You'll get insight into the top minds in the industry as they share their skills and hacks to help you on your journey.

This podcast isn't just about selling more, it's about understanding your customers needs and building efficiencies behind the scenes so you can sell more but work less while being top of mind when people think H Vac.

Now let's get started with your host of the Close it now podcast.

This is Sam Wakefield.

All right, welcome back.

Sam Wakefield here.

Close it now, sales training, your source for everything H Vac, solar and all the trades.

We're working with plumbing, we're working with electrical, we're working with whoever you are.

Even have a listener that does California closets that says they get a lot of great valuable insight and information.

And today we've got a really special guest.

I'm really excited to introduce our, our person today.

He is a featured coming up just announced in the ACHR news as in the top 40 under 40 list.

So that's a huge acclaim.

That big kudos.

And this is Eric Thomas, he is the founder and CEO of rival Digital.

So thank you for joining us on the podcast today, sir.

Yeah, thank you, Sam, so much for having me on the show today.

I'm super excited to dig in.

Absolutely, man, we appreciate it.

Well, give our listeners a little bit of a highlight reel.

A little bit longer than we, than we just chatted about.

How did you get into this game?

And you're the, the trades are a very specific niche, as we all know.

And you know, from a marketing standpoint, what's the expression?

The riches are in the niches.

So tell us a little bit about how you landed here and you know, kind of, kind of what you got and you know, why you started your business and give us a little bit of a mission statement, if you would.

Yeah, absolutely.

So I got my start in the trades.

You know, if we're, you know, if we're speaking technically here.

I did a summer job as a, an apprentice for a commercial heating and air company back in 2013 and 2014.

But that was really just kind of a glorified parts runner slash warehouse helper job that I had over the summer between semesters at college.

But you know, after college, you know, I got my degree in marketing.

I spent a little bit of time actually, right.

I mean, days after I graduated working for a company called Humana, which is in Louisville, Kentucky.

I was working at their headquarters doing digital design and website development.

And then, you know, I always, I always joke around that like 95% of people that work in the trades that like, they just kind of stumbled into it.

It's like we're almost like the, the island of misfit toys that just like randomly stumbled into this industry.

And so right after my wife and I got married, um, she's a dental hygienist.

And there was an opportunity for us to move to Virginia Beach, Virginia, because they were opening up an Aspen Dental, which is a dental office franchise that she was working for at the time.

And they were like, hey, we're opening this office.

Good opportunity to move.

I was like, yeah, you know, let's, let's go out there and let's, let's make it happen.

So this is before the whole remote work thing.

And sure, the folks at Humana told the folks at Human, I was like, hey, I'm moving back to Virginia.

You know, I would love to keep this job if possible.

And they're like, no, we don't do remote work.

So you're gonna have to, you know, figure something else out.

And I will say, you know, I love my, my experience there for nine months when I was working there, but they were super cool to like give me like a six week period to find a new job when I got home.

Oh, nice.

And so anyways, yeah, you know, I was kind of working from home a little bit, you know, just looking for jobs, stuff like that.

And I came across a listing on indeed for a company called Mosquito Joe, which is a, a pest control franchise that does primarily outdoor pest control treatments.

Mosquitoes, ticks and fleas, stuff like that.

Yeah, so I, you know, I applied.

It was a digital marketing job at their corporate office in Virginia Beach.

And you know, I applied for it.

I was like, you know what, this could be cool.

It's digital marketing.

It's what I like.

Let's just give it a shot and apply.

So I got that job, which is cool.

And then a couple weeks after I started there, they got acquired by a company called the Dwyer Group, which is a home services franchisor.

And then they later rebranded to become Neighborly.

So Neighborly owns, I think it's like 38 different brands now.

They're, they're worldwide.

So they're talking, of course, Mosquito Joe, Mr. Rooter, Mr. Electric, gotcha.

Mr. Appliance, Mr. Handyman, all kinds of grounds guys, tons of home services, Franchising companies.

And so, sure, suddenly, you know, our team went from doing digital marketing and stuff for just Mosquito Joe to essentially all of the neighborly brands.

So I did that for a little while, I think about two and a half years I spent there, roughly give or take a few months.

But then Covid happened and I was like, you know, I kind of want to.

Now's a better time than ever to sprout my wings and see what I can do.

So that's kind of when.

That's when you had your entrepreneurial seizure.

Yep, I had my seizure.

And, you know, we rival digital came about in the span of about a week.

And sure enough, our first client that we had landed and secured to get started with the company was a local heating and air conditioning company.

Okay.

I was like, well, this is.

This is right up my alley.

You know, I. I know H VAC and plumbing, I know home services in general.

And this is.

This could be pretty cool.

So that's what we ran with and we just kind of stuck with it, you know, ever since that day, and just kept doing, you know, digital marketing and website design and development for H vac, plumbing and electrical contractors.

And so, yeah, that's kind of.

We started the podcast in November of 2020, interviewing contractors and industry leaders, you know, similar to this, just kind of getting some insight and stuff like that.

And I just, you know, I just kind of got hooked on this industry and, you know, everything that is.

That comes with it.

So really, to.

To sum it up, you know, you said kind of like a mission statement, so to speak.

Our goal is pretty simple.

We want to provide world class digital marketing to our clients so that they can generate more revenue, employ more people, and serve more customers.

And that's really just kind of the genesis of what we do day in and day out here.

So we're providing lead generation, building websites, doing funnels, stuff like that, so that they can get more phone calls, they get more phone calls, they can obviously run more jobs, close more deals.

When they close the deals, they need to hire more people to do the work.

So at the end of the day, you know, at the end of the day, the contractor wins, the homeowner wins.

And that's essentially the genesis of what we do here and what we strive to achieve for our clients.

I love it, Eric.

That is such a cool story too.

And you're right, I'm the same poster child for stumbling into the industry myself.

Know, 17 years ago now, I look back and blinked and.

And here we are.

But yeah, I mean, it's like I moved to this little.

My wife got married, wife lived in a different town, moved there and I was like, well you have a career, I can get a job anywhere.

And so I quit my job, moved to where, where she was.

And sure enough like looking at the, this is of course aging myself.

Looking in the newspaper in the classifieds and you know, circled.

Hey look, this air conditioning company is hiring and this is Texas.

So it gets hot.

So they probably are going to be, you know, needs.

They're going to be hiring a lot and yeah, you know, and then for, you know, $8 an hour I was climbing through addicts and sweating my balls off.

So that's how it goes.

So 100 can agree understand where you're origins of that.

So tell us a little bit about how.

Of course we talked about your demographic.

Your demographic starts at you're saying so all, all of your listeners and so come some context context for you, Eric.

You know, we're in, you know, as you know, podcast goes around the world.

You know, we're 25 countries and basically if anywhere that gets hot and they speak English, there's they're listening to this podcast.

And so, so talk to the, you know, give people a feel for like what your focus is.

Where's your threshold start.

Who would be a good candidate to potentially, you know, work with you guys and you know, what, what can you offer them?

What makes you, what makes Rival Digital different than every other if I mean as a business owner, I get 10 messages a day.

Hey, could your business use more leads?

Right?

What makes your, what makes Rival Digital different than that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love the, the emails that come through for, for digital marketing services.

Like I, I run a digital marketing agency and I get them and they're like, hey, I, you know, I googled toilet and your plumbing company didn't show up.

Of course it didn't, but whatever.

Yeah.

So, you know, kind of our, our ideal client.

You know, we're, we're not for everyone.

I think that there are agencies out there for.

There's an agency out there forever.

Just a matter of finding the right fit.

So you know, first and foremost, if you're listening to this, I want you to know that like just because you might not be a fit for this company, maybe you're the perfect fit for this other company over here and they're going to just, you know, rock your world and crush it for you.

So you know, when you're looking for an agency, make sure you do.

I know as contractors, you guys hate when the customers get three to four quotes on a, on a, on a bid or a replacement.

But when it comes to agencies, really do, you know, not shop around, but do, you know, speak to three or four and see who you jive with the best and make sure that it's the best fit for you?

Because it is an investment, it is a commitment.

You make the right decision.

But, you know, for us, our ideal client is, you know, is doing at least two and a half million in revenue annually.

You know, we'll make exceptions, you know, based on, you know, different criteria, but we've just found that the ones that are at at least that 2.5 million mark are generally they have the processes and the systems and the team in place to be able to kind of run our playbook and see some decent results.

You know, that the ideal customer has actually, believe it or not, been branded by a professional branding agency such as Kick Charge.

I know you mentioned that he's coming up on the show soon.

I'm a huge Jan Antennae fan.

He was actually just on my podcast a few weeks ago.

And so I found that, you know, the, the, the, the clients that have invested in branding, that have invested in building a team and have processes in place, those tend to be the just the most successful clients, you know, for us.

And I'm not saying it wouldn't be the same for someone else, but just for us, because this generally a good indicator that they've invested in the right things.

They're willing to try things out and they're willing to test different tactics and ideas without it being just a make it or break it thing for their business.

Because so many companies out there will sign up for a marketing service hoping that this is going to be like, this is what's going to take me to the top.

This is going to my golden ticket to becoming rich.

This is my golden ticket to early retirement.

Silver bullet, like you said, right?

No matter what agency you hire or what it is, that's just simply never going to be the reality.

Like, you might hire a marketing company and yeah, they probably have some decent tactics and tricks up their sleeves to get you a few extra calls here and there.

They probably have a good process in place to get you found on the Internet, but it can't be the only thing.

And so that is, you know, that's, that's a huge thing for us is like when we're meeting with a contractor to get started, it's like, yes, we're going to build you a nice website.

We're going to make sure it's converting.

We're going to run ads for you and do all, all those great things, but it can't be the only thing.

So, like, what are you doing for your CSR training?

What do you got in place for your sales process?

Do you have comfort advisors?

Do you have selling technicians?

How are you flipping repair leads?

How are you, are you signing up maintenance customers?

Do you actually have a maintenance plan or a comfort club?

There's got to be things in place because if you're just chasing the dragon every single day for install leads on Google, well, then you're going to just constantly be dependent on those lead sources.

And we see it all the time with like, sure, HomeAdvisor and Angie's List people.

You mean the blackmail marketing companies?

Yeah, people are just on there chasing the dragon.

You know, give me more leads, give me more leads, give me more leads.

I just want installs.

But if he's not paying those companies, then you run out of lead sources.

So you've got to be like, got to make sure that, like, they're branded, they have systems and processes in place, they have departmental structure, some sort.

They've got a plan to, you know, pull a lever if it's slow.

They've got to have, you know, maintenance plans in place and maintenance agreements in place.

And so, you know, our ideal customer is kind of along those lines.

They're just, they're hungry to grow.

And where we come in as their marketing partner is really just to kind of help add fuel to the fire.

You know, our ideal customers already kind of got some of that other stuff flushed out and we're here to just kind of help generate additional phone calls.

Yeah, throw gasoline right on it.

I love it, man.

And that, that's beautiful.

I, I see the same thing.

You know, that's why I talked to a lot of different marketing companies and lead generation companies and have partnerships with several because, I mean, so what if you get a whole bunch of extra leads if you can't close them?

You know, it's like, let's, let's teach you guys how to actually, you know, sell the job and sell the lead when it comes in.

And, you know, I want to circle back to something that I heard you say here a minute ago that was, I think it's really crucial, especially for, you know, maybe the company that's not quite at two and a half million or maybe they're crossing that threshold.

They're just getting the things in place.

They're wanting to do it right as, you know, when it comes to picking the digital company, you know, what are some of the things to look for and some of the things to watch out for that, you know, is kind of a litmus test for if they're the right fit for, you know, for someone or not.

Yeah.

So, you know, I think the most important thing is just making sure that you have ownership of the digital assets that you can own, you know, because if you ever need to switch, you don't want to have to start over again.

And so like, making sure you own your domain name, making sure you own your Google business profile, making sure that you own the Google Ads account.

And so that's like, if, if I'm teaching contractors one question to ask right off the bat to their agency is who owns what?

Because, you know, there, there is, you know, there is background, you know, IP that the agency probably owns, like software licenses and stuff like that.

But sure, like, if you're, if the agency's the one purchasing your domain name and like, and you're getting started with digital and they're like, oh, yeah, we'll, you know, we'll purchase your domain name, we'll set up your Google business profile, like, that's a huge red flag.

So just making sure you understand who owns what, you know, when you're, when you're vetting those agencies because, you know, at some point you might outgrow that agency.

It might be.

We see this all the time too with, you know, people that are starting up and they're, you know, maybe under a million is.

My, my office manager's nephew is a web designer.

He lives here in town.

Or, you know, the, the, the guy that works in the warehouse knows how to build websites.

Yeah.

And so you kind of.

The teenage son's now our social media director.

Yeah.

And so, and you know, and that's, and that's cool.

Like, you know, that's what you can do at the time.

Like, it can get you from here to there.

But at some point you're going to need to take a look back and be like, all right, we're kind of bottlenecked here at about, you know, 800,000 a year.

You know, what are some different, what was that next, like, mountaintop that we can climb up to?

And it might be at that point of hiring, you know, a more aggressive digital marketing agency or a more aggressive direct mail strategy or something like that.

And so you're going to make sure that, like, when you go to make that switch one day that like, you own your stuff because the last thing that you want to happen is be like, yeah, we have to buy a new domain name because no one knows who owns our other domain name.

And so now you're essentially starting over from an SEO perspective.

So, yeah, just making sure when you're talking to agencies like, you know, who owns what and particular, you want to be the one that own, ideally all of it, if you can, but just making sure that you own, you know, the foundational pieces like your Google business profile, your Bing places, if anyone actually uses that domain name, stuff like that.

Right, right.

So let's camp out there for a second.

As a, you know, you, you're the founder and CEO of a digital marketing company.

When you reference something and then say, if anybody uses that.

Tell us a little more about that comment.

I mean, it was, it was kind of just a jab at Microsoft.

I mean, Bing is, don't get me wrong, you know, there's actually, Bing is really not that bad.

But we, you know, we, we know like people don't ever say, when they ask a question, they don't ever say, I don't know, Bing it say, I don't know, Google it.

Like it's right.

Google, you know, still largely owns that market share for search engines.

Sure.

But there is definitely a place for Bing depending on the demographic you're going after.

Like if you're, if your target demographic is a little bit older than Bing might actually be the play for you because it's just proven that Microsoft has a higher usership with, you know, with the older demographic and their default search engine is Bing.

So maybe Bing is the right thing for you.

You sure?

I'm just, I'm just, I'm just a big, I'm a big fan of, of Googling it.

So of course, still being proves me wrong.

Continue to make fun of them.

Well, and you know, it's funny that you mentioned that.

I, I, I, I kind of knew what you were going to say.

But that proves the point that branding is so crucial.

I mean, Google has done the best job of branding.

So they've basically taken over just like, you know, there's a thousand companies that make, you know, facial tissue.

But what do we say?

We say grab me a Kleenex.

They've branded it.

Grab me, you know, rotary saw.

It's grab me a skill saw, right?

Yeah, yeah, exactly like, yeah.

So like chapstick even like it's a crescent wrench.

Yeah.

You know, like crescent is like the brand.

But now any wrench that is a crescent wrench is called, you know, you Call it a crescent ranch.

Sure.

Even the other brands are named them the Sea Ranch for that size.

Just because that's the only way to reference it.

Yeah, so yeah, you're spot on with that.

So that, that really actually kind of takes us to another good question.

Which once a company has done a good job, say they worked with, you know, with Kick Charge or worked with another good branding company and in fact it makes me think of the, I can, I'm connected with a solar company called Apricot and the owner of that company, Dave Bengel, I've heard him say over and over for years, branding beats sell seven days out of seven and it a lot of times proves true.

It doesn't discredit the rest of the components, which is a good segue into that we're going to talk about.

But you know, once a company has some good branding, you know, how, what can you do for them to help them basically I like to say dominate their market with so where everyone looks, hey, that's the brand that I see.

You know, walk us through without giving, you know, giving away the farm.

Walk us through a little game plan.

So somebody that's not working with you, what can they do to get there and to you know, kind of get to that point and then someone is, you know, what can you do to like really when you're talking about poor gasoline on that fire?

What, what are we doing there?

Yeah, yeah.

And so, you know, I think it's, it's, it's important for you know, the listeners to, to also keep in mind that like when it comes to planning your marketing mix, you know, one thing can't be the only thing.

And so like we, we've seen this happen tremendously over the, honestly over the past 10 years or so as social media marketing kind of became bigger and Internet marketing kind of took off, we saw a lot of people over shift and over rotate into digital and kind of leave behind the foundation and just kind of the basics of marketing and advertising, which is it all starts with your brand.

And so I think we're kind of seeing that shift back a little bit now when it comes to branding within your marketing mix.

And so yeah, I think, you know, branding's got to be the cornerstone your brand needs to be the cornerstone of your entire market.

But then from there you know, you've got to be doing honestly, you gotta, you gotta be doing all the little things right.

You know, on top of, you know, some of your higher expense type of marketing efforts like digital marketing.

So you got to be doing.

I'll back up.

Because, you know, they say, we used to always say this at Mosquito Joe, that, you know, it takes seven touch points for someone to remember.

And I know that that number always varies.

Some people say 15, some people say 10.

I generally recommend just seven because we've just seen it over and over again that seven touch points tends to work.

Sure.

That of course is relative to how sticky your brand is.

If it's memorable, it takes less.

If it's not, then who knows?

Yeah, exactly.

You know, I'm sure that, you know, Dan will touch on this.

I don't want to steal his thunder.

But like if you have white van syndrome where you've just got the white vent and with a magnet on the side that says like, you know, AAA heating and air conditioning.

Because it would come first in the phone book.

Oh, I forgot, there's no phone books anymore.

Yeah.

And so like, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna need 30 touch points and at that point you're just hoping that people remember, you know, your personal brand.

But so I like to say seven touch points and, and, but you got to be doing the little things right.

And a lot of people think that, that seven touch points all has to happen on traditional and digital.

Like it does not have to be radio, tv, billboard digital.

You can get those seven touch points with yard signs, with door hangers, with banners, and left center field of the little league baseball field.

You know, there's, there's so many low cost, no cost options out there where you can get your logo just smack dab right in front of everyone, you know, and, and then to also be able to complement that with your radio campaigns, that's more of a mass media approach.

You're going to be paying a lot of money, but you're going to reach a higher audience.

And then same with, you know, billboards a little bit more expensive than the left, you know, the left field banner maybe a little bit more expensive than the yard signs, but you have a higher volume for that.

And so, you know, where we, where we fit into the mix?

You know, it's really, like I said, it's mostly digital lead generation and branded campaigns, but we find time and time again at the ones that are branded well and the ones that are doing all these things right into their mix, they've got the radio, tv, billboards, they're doing all the little stuff.

Right.

Their marketing spend goes down significantly in digital because they're no longer having to, you know, get into an absolute street brawl over AC repair Near me.

Sure.

You go on Google and you type in AC Repair near me.

That customer has no clue who they're going to land on.

Right.

But if they can get on there now and say Sam's H Vac, they've already made up their mind who they're calling.

They just need help, you know, they just need to get through the toll booth of Google.

They're just looking for the phone number.

In the right direction.

Yeah.

And so like that's where, you know, we see if you've got the brand in place and you've got the full mix.

It's a nice, healthy marketing mix.

We see people's marketing spend goes down significantly because they're no longer having to fight for those Async.

Love it, man.

Circuit surge.

Oh, that's good.

That's so, so, so good.

So I, I want to segue a little bit into the reason.

So everybody listening that and this is a shameless plug for this event coming up.

The reason that Eric is on, on this podcast right now is he is another, another speaker in the series that are going to be at Profit rocket Growth Summit 2023 coming up in Austin, Texas in September27,28,29.

I myself will also be a speaker on one of the sales panels there.

So, but Eric is one of the keynotes and I'm super excited to hear, hear you talk out there.

And what, what is your topic going to be?

Do you have any idea what you got hammered out yet?

Yes.

So, so my, my session is actually going to be a live podcast recording.

So I'll be doing a live podcast recording on stage with Victor with Lawrence Castillo from Brody Pinnell Heating and Air Conditioning and with, with a few others.

I'm not entirely certain who the full panel will be.

Sure.

So, and to be honest, I'm not, I'm not even entirely certain what the topic is going to be yet.

I figured if, if it's anything like most of my podcasts, I'll probably just start spitting off some questions and then one of, because we'll all be, you know, ADHD entrepreneurs on stage.

You get that many like hard driving alpha males on stage at once.

Somebody's got something, something to talk about, right?

Yeah, yeah, five, five alphas with adhd, someone's going to just take a complete left turn and we're going to follow it down the rabbit hole.

So I'm not, I'm not certain where that'll go yet, but that'll be pretty cool because it'll be, you know, an opportunity to speak with a few folks that are.

Have mastered and have dedicated their lives and their whole careers to, you know, mastering the sales process of, you know, of heating and air conditioning and running successful heating and air conditioning businesses.

So that I think that'll be.

Sure.

I love it, man.

So fill us in.

What is the.

Tell all the listeners.

So the listeners of my podcast are very, very focused on personal growth, focused on leveling up.

That's one thing we talk about a lot is work to become someone worth buying from.

And as you do that and you increase your own personal growth, then you know, life can starts to happen for you and not because you.

Just because you become that better person.

So what is your podcast name and how do they get connected to that?

Because obviously you have a really great following and a lot of good content.

I love to share everyone's.

Everyone's info.

Yes.

So my podcast is called Smart H Vac Marketing.

You can.

If you just Google Smart H Vac Marketing.

Or even if you just Google like H Vac Marketing Podcast.

Notice I said Google.

Yeah, if you Google Marketing.

If you search it or Google it.

Yeah, so it'll be.

That's anywhere.

You can also go to h vacpodcast.com and there's.

There's two options there.

One of them is to listen to our podcast.

The other one is if you need help starting a podcast, say it's a service that we also offer as well for contractors.

So h vacpodcast.com is a good way to get kind of plugged in as well.

Oh, very cool.

Love that.

I actually instantly thought of someone who was just telling me wanting to start a podcast.

I'll send him your way.

So, yeah, good stuff.

So very cool.

Very cool, man.

I love it.

And man, this is such a good conversation, you know, when we're talking about the marketing.

So do you guys handle.

Does rival digital handle?

Non digital.

I mean, what do you do?

Like a full suite if somebody says, hey, let's include some billboards and that kind of stuff into the mix or, you know, how spread does it get with you guys?

Yeah, we tend to just stick with digital now.

I've tried billboards and TV and radio before.

Or I just think that that requires a completely different skill set when it comes to like media buying and negotiating with, you know, with radio stations.

So we don't, you know, I think actually if you're.

I don't, I don't know if you know, if you have any radio or ad partners as well, but we, we work a lot with a Company called the wizard of Ads who do radio advertising.

And they're, they're pretty solid with all that good stuff.

But you know, we just kind of stick with, with the digital side.

But we know we track everything super, super down to a T just because, you know, like, like I mentioned, like we are here to help put fuel on the fire and sometimes we'll, we'll pour some fuel on the fire and you'll see the flame go up real quick.

But there wasn't any good dry firewood to that to kind of help keep the fire going.

And so that's where we can kind of dig in and look and be like, hey, you know, your comfort advisors and your sales people, they have an amazing closing rate.

The only problem is your CSRs are booking only 2 out of every 10 calls.

So like that's where we can see and be like, hey, look, you've got a, you've got a 65% closing rate, but you're only booking 25% of your calls.

So if we increase that, that booking rate, you know, and that's not something we help with, but we can help identify it and be, you know, we're, you know, this camp, this campaign's generating the best type of install leads, the best type of replacement leads.

You just need, you know, maybe get a little coaching with your CSRs to book more calls so that your salespeople can run more leads and then everyone will win.

So that's kind of where we draw the line is with the tracking side, you know, after the lead generation.

But I, yeah, traditional advertising is just kind of way out of our ballpark.

No, that's all right.

So, and you're right, metrics are so important.

If you don't measure it, you can't manage it.

Right.

So when you're looking at numbers and especially.

So actually let's do this as a two part answer.

A company that's smaller than say your 2.5 million, the smaller guys that are start, they want to get to a place where, you know, they've got things in place to be able to use a company like yours and then also a company that has already got those things in place because I know this answer is maybe a little different.

What are the, some of the most important metrics to look for along the way and you know, what's some of the best ways to track them?

Oh yeah.

So I, you know, I think, I don't know who said this originally, but it's always got to be math before marketing.

So like, you know, if Someone.

If someone comes to us and says they want to work with us, like, and we hop on a call, like, I'm asking immediately, what's your average ticket?

What's your closing rate?

What's your booking rate?

What's your, you know, what's the average value of a lifetime?

The average lifetime value of a customer?

Yeah, like, I need to know that stuff.

And so I think that those, in my opinion, those four.

Four are my, kind of my favorite.

Now, obviously, net profit is important because, you know, profit is sanity.

However, I know that I'm not going to be able to have any control over a company's profitability.

That's much.

A, much more lagging metric than what you're focused on.

Yeah.

So for me, I think, like, if you are trying to just get a grip on your business and kind of be able to understand where you can shed some fat, where you can afford to invest more, is understanding those things, like, what's, what's your call booking rate?

What's your closing rate on a, you know, on a job, even if it's a repair?

You know, so I've seen some people fumble the bag and not be able to sell a repair.

Yeah.

So, yeah, call booking rate, closing rate on it.

What's your average ticket for service and install, and then also your blended average ticket.

And then also, you know, lifetime value customer.

Here's obviously the, the booking rate and the closing rate are kind of the easier ones to land on because you just just say, all right, we got 100 calls this month and 68 of them booked.

There you go.

68 booking room.

Sure.

And then same with, you know, same with closing rate.

Well, we ran 68 calls.

Gosh, I won't be able to do the math on that.

We ran 100 calls and we closed 30 of them.

We have a 30 closing rate.

So those ones are a little bit easier to land on.

Gosh, I was about to try to do math on 68.

68.

Hang on, let's grab the calculator for that one.

Yeah, yeah.

But, you know, it's important to understand also, like, this is where it gets less into sales and more into, like, operator mode of like, your overhead.

Because something that a lot of marketing companies are going to tell you, and this is a great thing to like, kind of sniff out the kind of the, the, the amateurs from folks who may be able to help you.

There's a lot of marketing companies will say, well, what's an install worth to you?

And you're going to say, oh, my average sale is 12,500 and let's just say they're pitching you at $5,000 a month in services and $10,000 a month in ad spend.

So $15,000 a month in digital market.

Well, then they would say something like, well if, if we just get you two installs, then this will pay for itself, right?

No, that's, that's not the case.

So like understand your overhead too.

So you need to understand what the profitability on an install repair job is because then you can be like, no, well, I actually need 10 install leads from digital to break even on this $15,000 investment, you know, after everything's paid for.

Right.

Knowing those numbers can, can kind of help you avoid getting bamboozled a little bit.

And then also the lifetime value, you know, for your customers and like that, that's a very important metric for me to anyone.

I've kind of turned this into like an eight part answer.

I apologize.

No, this is great.

I love it.

All excellent information.

Huge.

Yeah, lifetime value is huge.

Because I, and this is another thing like I wish I could help control this, but I can't.

All I can do is offer.

My advice is to get everyone signed up on a maintenance plan or maintenance agreement of some sort because they may just need a new capacitor today, but at some point that system is going to bite the dust.

At some point they're going to need a new roof.

At some point they're going to want, you know, new solar, the batteries or.

Gosh, I don't about solar.

Really exposing myself now.

No, you're, but you're right, that's one of the biggest.

Yeah.

For years and years and years it's been solar installed with no batteries, 10% attachment rate.

And so there's 90% of solar installs that need batteries here in the next 10 years.

Exactly.

And so today it might just be an inspection, but five years from now it could be a $20,000 sale.

And so, you know, while it's not fun to run that call and flip out a capacitor or just do a simple inspection for a couple hundred dollars, you can get them signed on for some type of agreement or service plan at 20$30 a month.

One, you're going to be building up monthly recurring revenue which will help during those slower months.

So, you know, hey, if we don't get a single DAG on call this month, we're still going to make $73,000 just from our.

And then might, that might just be what it takes to keep the lights on for Another month.

So you know, signing them up for, for maintenance and then understand that lifetime value because you know, if, if, if the average system is just say it's a ten thousand dollar sale for you and you're flipping out.

Mrs. Jones is heating an air system once every eight years.

Well then you can know that like, all right, we got, you know, Mrs. Jones signed up for a maintenance agreement today that has provided future security for our company because we know at some point that's going to be a ten thousand dollar sale plus the other miscellaneous parts and upgrade, upgrades and service in the meantime.

And that's what helps companies stay in business during economic uncertainty.

I love it.

That's also for all the owners listening, that's and people starting businesses.

That's one of the key components when you're looking at a valuation of a company to sell it is what type of recurring revenue and client base, know, what's that portfolio look like?

And the predictability of that dramatically increases the revenue for, you know, the valuation of the company when it comes to, you know, to turning it later.

So yeah, yeah, big component of it.

So love it, man.

I'm a huge fan of those.

Well, and of course with any company, if their people are trained right, there's not a single time that, you know, someone goes to a home that they shouldn't have some sort of additional system enhancement that the homeowner buys.

You know, it could be anything from a surge protector to hey, how many, you know, miss, Ms. Jones, have you seen the, the newest, latest, greatest these.

They're so cool.

Would you like to hear how I or anything happens?

You know, smoke comes down from Canada, taxes with smoke and man, would you like to hear how we're protecting ourselves in our own homes to.

From that smoke?

Has it been giving you any issues?

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

We can show you how to turn your home into a sanctuary.

So not a single touch point that they shouldn't be something included or added.

Yeah.

And you know, I think that so many contractors shy away from that because they think like, you know, it might seem predatory.

It's not, it's almost, you're almost doing them a disservice if you don't like you're already there.

And you know, we call these CSS upgrades.

So it's like a comfort savings or security upgrade.

You know, when you're inside someone's home.

And I'm telling you nine times out of ten if you simply ask them, either one, say hey, while I'm here, I'm also just going to check out the panel real quick just to, you know, just for peace of mind for us and you.

Or you could just simply ask.

While I'm here.

I'm, you know, a mechanically inclined technician.

They know that.

You know that.

While I'm here, was there anything else you wanted me to take a look at today?

Sure.

Car dealerships do this.

The dental office does this.

The doctor's office does this.

You go into the doctor because your head hurts, they're still going to check your weight.

They're still going to check your height.

They're still going to check your blood pressure.

You got it.

Just because they want everyone to know that, like, everything else is good here.

And nine times out of 10, they're going to say, I have this outlet in the bathroom or something that doesn't want to seem to work.

And whatever XYZ is exactly like, just happened to me.

I was at.

I called a tree company out, and I called them there to prune and trim up one tree.

And the guy was like, are there any other trees you want me to look at?

I've already got the stump grinder here.

I've already got.

He cut down two trees and grinded like, six stumps the same day before he left.

And it went like a 200 job.

And I was paying him, next thing you know, like, 1500 bucks to do all this stuff just because he asked.

So, you know, it doesn't hurt.

It doesn't hurt to ask.

So, like, you know, I'm not a technician, so maybe don't, you know, take my word as the gospel here, but if your folks are just going in to do exactly what they were called to do and leaving without additional, you know, just look behind the hood or anything, you're doing your customers kind of a disservice.

You got it.

You know, the classic story, and we've seen it happen in our industry of, like, literally losing a massive amount of real estate on the wall the second that we.

Because nobody was offering.

Well, one, our industry is the slowest moving creature on the planet.

I honestly, I preach all the time.

We're about 20 years behind when it comes to technology.

Like, case in point, why do we have to run control wire at this time in our lives?

Right?

I mean, we should have some wireless.

Better wireless connectability.

But all that aside, when we lost the real estate of the thermostat when Nest took it over, and then Google bought Nest because.

Not because they wanted a thermostat, but they wanted to make it the hub for home automation.

And that was the easiest way to get into a home.

And all of a sudden the H VAC industry realized, oh, we haven't been offering thermostats.

And they like and everybody hates them.

They're horrible thermostats.

But you know, hey, they're, thankfully, they've come a long ways in, in the last few years, but we lost that market share because we were lazy and didn't offer it.

And they were, they're on the truck.

You didn't even tell people, People didn't even know that existed.

And so it's a good, good example.

You know, one of the ways that we teach it here at Close it now is, you know, we're very permission based, you know, have them asking you for stuff.

And so that process, so easy.

Quick tip for all you listeners.

Take this nugget and start using it immediately when you're there for service, especially service.

But this is, this is also what I trained at.

The end of the discovery section is, oh, by the way, while I'm here, if I see anything else related to health and safety, building durability, energy savings, is it okay if I bring that to your attention or do you want me to bring that to your attention?

They will always say yes.

And then when you do find something, it's so they're, they're like, hey, would you like to hear, remember I asked you that question?

Would you like to hear what I found?

Now they're excited.

Yeah, what'd you find?

What'd you find otherwise?

If you just out of the blue say, hey, I noticed that you need this replaced now they're like, oh, wait, they're just trying to make my ticket bigger.

And so it becomes they're excited and asking you for it instead of feeling like you're trying to force something on them.

And so that's how we, that's how we teach it here.

And it comes across so much better.

And they're asking for more stuff now.

Yeah, and there's, you know, there's just so many, there's so many industries that have been doing this too for, for a while now.

Yeah.

One that, one that comes to mind in particular is, is pest control and lawn care.

Like when I worked at Mosquito Joe, like it was, it was a category killer.

It was kind of like a Best Buy.

Like you go to a Best Buy, that's a category killer.

All they do is technology versus like a department store of Dillards or something.

Sure.

Like we just, you know, at first our focus was mosquitoes, ticks and fleas.

And we were constantly like buttoned up against like Orkin and Terminex and you know, some of the, some of the ones that you know, offer the full range of pest and rodent control, like because they do, they do rodent control, but they're also going to bundle in mosquito ticks and fleas.

But then we started seeing lawn care companies doing this.

So like your typical like franchise lawn care company.

Yeah.

Like an emerald lawns or something, right?

Yeah.

So like they're going to cut your grass but while they're there they're going to be like, hey, we noticed that you have this or you notice that you have that and we could treat that while we're here today to help prevent cockroaches and spiders from getting in your house.

And so now it's like, well, why do I need one company for mosquitoes, one company for my grass, one company for my mice when I could just have this lawn care company do it all for me?

Sure.

And it's, and it's just because they, they were there and they're like, hey, while we're making your lawn look good, we noticed, you know, these three things just finding new things to, to offer the customers.

Love it man, love it.

It's, it's super powerful and that, and that's truly what happens with, to kind of bring it, circle it back to, to your marketing is on a campaign.

I mean obviously you're the expert here.

I've just been on the other side and used digital marketing for years and years is, you know, you don't necessarily market everything at the same time and you have to be a little more specific.

Kind of like what we were saying at the beginning is, you know, for all you listeners when you go out and if you're networking with people, you don't tell when somebody asks you who's your ideal client, they'll say, well everyone, because nobody hears that.

It's just white noise.

You, it literally is like, well that means no one.

So give us an idea of what a, you know, how to lead the charge on say a specific service.

And a little bit of kind of a, just kind of a super highlight reel of a game plan of how long should you run a specific service.

And for example, I saw a post earlier about Victor, Victor Ranquarie was like, hey, all of the top companies are right now in the mid July planning for shoulder season this fall.

We're talking about 60, 75, 8, 90 days out.

What are you doing right now?

Are you letting, are you going to be reactive then or what?

Are we doing to plan for it?

So just give us an idea of kind of what a game plan for a year might look like for somebody.

Yeah.

So you know, it's got to start with planning.

They've gotta, gotta know your numbers.

You gotta come up with a plan for sure.

But you know, it's, it's gotta be like you said, specific is terrific in this stuff.

And so you know, you gotta make sure that you're limiting.

If you're, if you're running offers or promotions, you need to limit it to just one or two.

You know, we see some people, they look like, like a, like a coupon book of some sort or you know, like they're just one or two offers.

So like.

Yeah, so everything that company does has got a coupon.

Exactly.

Exactly.

So like, like for, I'm just going to speak to, to H Vac and Plumbing, you know, but for, you know, for your shoulder months, you might be talking a lot about your tune ups and your maintenance because that's going to be kind of, that's what you see a lot in the shorter months.

As you see, you know, it's maintenance time because the weather's not hot enough for ac, it's not cold enough for your heat, but it's perfect timing to come have your furnace taking a look at, just to keep the folks busy.

And then maybe in the summertime, it's in the winter time, you know, when it's blistering hot and super cold.

Maybe it's an offer for a discount on a repair with same day service.

But it's got to be specific, you know, and what I love and what we really see works well for people is, is like you said, everyone's my customer.

And that's like my, my biggest gripe is I'll say like who's your ideal customer?

They'll just say homeowners.

And I'm like no, like that's, that's not, that's not because like you could walk outside of your door and there's going to be 40 homes around you, but they're all going to use someone different.

You need to be able to speak directly to one person and their pain points.

And you know, maybe, maybe you live in, in a city that has a million.

Oh gosh, that would be tough.

Maybe you live in a city with 100 people because I, I'm not good with math right on the spot.

Maybe your city only has a hundred people in it.

And you know, of those 100 people, 10 of them make up 90% of the household income.

So of that 100 people, you've got some that are lower class, middle.

Lower class, middle class, but you've got 10% that is making up 90% of the income.

That's probably pretty accurate numbers for population and income spread.

Exactly.

So if you put a message out to all 100 of them that says, we are your people, well, then none of them are going to be interested in.

But if you know that those, those 10 people that make up 90% of the market, live in, call the neighborhood Fancy street, and they all, you know, are a certain demographic of folks, you can just literally, your advertising could start saying, hey, Fancy street homeowners, you're not speaking to that other 90% of people.

You're only speaking to that 10% of people.

But they're the ones with the money.

And you can say, hey, Fancy street homeowners, in your neighborhood, we have noticed that there is X, Y and Z or an opportunity for this, that and the other.

And so now you go from speaking to 100 people broadly that, you know, none of them are interested to.

You've got 10 people whose ears just kind of perked up like a dog and said, whoa, that's me.

Yeah, they're talking to me.

So that's where it's, you know, we gotta.

Before we come up with a plan, we gotta know who your ideal customer is.

And then from there, it's just.

It's coming up with, you know, specific offers and messaging that will resonate with that.

That demographic and that.

That clientele base.

And, you know, it might be scary because it's a smaller pool of opportunity, but.

And I've seen people here in Virginia beach, where I live, I've seen companies make a million dollars in one neighborhood.

Absolutely.

And it's just.

It's just because like.

Like the neighborhood I live in, every single house was built in 1985.

So I have seen companies that have just targeted our neighborhood, and they were like, hey, Ocean Lakes homeowners.

Every house is built the same.

They've all got the same electrical panel, they've all got the same roof, They've all got the same heating and air system, or at least they did.

And every day I leave work and come home from work, and I see the same trucks driving around the neighborhood because they've just got it.

Somebody has dominated the market there.

Yeah, they just.

Yeah, I was in this one neighborhood.

Yeah, absolutely.

I was coaching with somebody recently and they were saying their town is in.

In Canada.

And huge shout out to Nolan and his.

It leaves like nobody in my town does in, has any kind of solution for a frog.

He didn't even know what, he didn't know what the frog was.

A finished roof, finished room over garage right there.

It's all this, this add on that was done in.

This is a really popular, you know, add on in this.

This whole city and there's not a single heating and air company had the solution.

So we talked through it.

I was like, man, market the hell out of that.

Find you a way to.

You have we talked through.

The perfect solution is like now take it to the streets.

If nobody's messaging it.

You can get so specific, be like, do you have this room over your garage that's always hot in the summer, always cold in the winter.

All the other companies come out and told you there's no solution.

We are the solution experts for this specific situation.

Now we've got a very targeted concept because those homeowners are like, oh my God, I'm tired of waking, you know, keeping me up, sweating at night because it's too hot.

Right.

And so it's, you know, so for all the listeners, kind of take it to the streets and put, put feet to that.

That's a specific.

Think about that.

When, if there is a, a solution that you offer that, you know, no one around you is offering, message it, message it from the, from the hilltops.

Because you know you can own that specific market.

And when you're the line leader, it doesn't matter who else tries to follow you and, and have a solution and say, undercut you, you can charge more for it because you were first to market with it there too.

Yeah.

And, and you can, you can take your marketing budget and do way more damage with it in a more focused approach like that.

So, and that's the thing, like people, when you want to reach a million people with a budget of $100,000 a year, you're never going to reach anyone and you're never going to see any results.

But if you take that $100,000 a year, what's that divided by 12?

Your marketing budget is $120,000 a year.

I know you're good.

It's like, Grant, $10,000 a month is your marketing budget.

If that $10,000 a month in marketing is only going towards one specific person, you can hammer them, I mean, just beat the crap out of them with your message and they're going to call you.

Like you said, if you have this room over your garage and it's super hot.

Yeah, you, you know, exactly what I'm talking about.

Then this is the solution.

Here's our, you know, we offering, you know, ductless mini split installs over your, in your frog room, this type of window.

And you take that message with your budget and you just focus on that neighborhood.

Then you can do yard signs, OTT direct mail, IP address retargeting ads, you can do Facebook geofenced ads, you can do email blast.

Like, you can literally just own that neighborhood, that small little pocket of the market with your message and you're going to do so much more damage with it.

Oh my gosh.

Absolutely.

And, and I would even, maybe even submit that.

Don't give the solution in the, in the ad.

Say we have the answer.

Call us to see if it's a good.

Let, let's get us out there and see if it's a good fit for you.

You know, make it, make it mysterious, make it, you know, make it curious.

You know, somebody wants to be curious about.

Oh my gosh, I have that problem.

Exactly.

You described me.

I've got to find out what this answer is.

You know, that way they're not just Googling, Googling, you know.

Oh, hey, he said he already told me what the solution is.

I can just Google that.

You know, let's make it mysterious, you know, but you know, open to that concept, to that idea.

Yeah, Love it, man.

Well, it is about time to land this plane.

We're rocking right at an hour now.

It's about how long we go with these, these interviews.

It has been awesome to have you on.

And so again, let's, let's give it a quick minute.

Have you been to any of the profit rocket events in the past?

No, I have not.

Last year's profit rocket event I think overlapped with another obligation that I had.

Okay, so I haven't been able to make it.

I'm super excited for this year's for sure.

Awesome.

No worries.

Well give us a, just a super quick last minute, you know, tip or actionable item that, you know, our, our listeners can, if they're individuals or business owners.

Either way, something somebody can do like immediately and yeah, let's take a minute and kind of pump the, pump the event a little bit.

Yeah.

Oh, man.

Oh, here's, here's the, my, my most recent tip that is not super mainstream yet.

So Reddit is becoming way more popular again.

Like, I know Reddit's always been kind of popular for like a very specific crowd of people who like think they know everything.

But my wife's on Reddit.

Don't tell her you said that.

Reddit's becoming almost like its own little next door type of opportunity.

So like everyone knows like next door is a great place to be in front of people.

People next door, the different Facebook groups.

Add Reddit to your arsenal and if you can go on Reddit and you can type in R slash like your city's name.

So if you live in Raleigh, it's R Raleigh, R slash Cincinnati, whatever it is.

And you can see people are posting questions in there and like you can get even more specific and search within that subreddit for like H vac, solar or roofing and people are asking their questions in there.

So.

Add that to the, to the mix for sure.

Like for your, your outreach and community engagement type stuff.

Love it.

Love it.

That is a great tip.

Yeah.

And then for, you know, for Victor's event, you know, I'm, I don't know how long I'll be there for.

Probably be there for the whole thing, I hope.

But yeah, if we, I look forward to meeting you there for sure.

If listening is.

Is going to be there.

I'm a pretty friendly fella.

You could most likely find me hanging out at some type of bar in the hotel or around the hotel.

So you see strangers 100.

I love to tell this story, man.

When I was first getting into heating and air, you know, 15, 16, 17 years ago, my first year in sales, the owner of the company, his name is Brian Winkelman.

So big shout out, Brian, if you're listening.

My mentor for a lot of years, my very first, it was an ACA convention he sent me to, handed me the company credit card and said buy, go after the event, go to the bar and buy drinks for all the speakers and then and ask him a question and listen because you're going to get your biggest takeaways and tips there.

And he was not wrong.

Every, I literally would like go had a notebook with me just to write down the, the nuggets that I got.

And it was amazing.

You know, go back and immediately implement and see numbers change like dramatically because people are happy to share.

It's so.

But most people are scared to come up and just ask the questions and so, so everybody listening, go, go meet Eric at the bar and buy him a drink.

And yeah, hopefully Eric won't have to buy any drinks of his own.

And all of your listeners, he'll give, he'll give free tips if you buy him drinks.

No, I'm just kidding.

I'm not volunteering you to give away all the secrets but, but the power of networking is real and you know, when you meet somebody in person and you get to know them and just, you know, people share, you know, war stories and swap success secrets all the time.

Success leaves clues, right?

Absolutely, yeah.

100%.

Yeah.

Love it, man.

So, well, awesome.

Well, thanks for the Reddit tip.

That is, that's great.

And yeah.

So everybody listening?

Well, the last, very last thing is how do they get in touch with you?

You know, if they want somebody at two and a half million or greater, they got their things in place, they're ready to really dump some gasoline on their fire.

How do they find Rival Digital?

Yeah, you know, we can be found.

You can just go on Google and type in Rival Digital.

You can just go to rivaldigital.com either.

It's fine.

You can connect with us there.

We're, we're, you know, we're a pretty small hands on company so if you submit a contact form on that site, I'll be the one to reach out and give you a call to set some stuff up.

So don't be a stranger.

If you want to chat or anything like that, just go, go fill out a form or just, just say, hey, I want to, I want to chat with Eric for a little bit.

I'll send you a calendly or something.

We can set up some time to meet.

Love it man.

And everybody go like and follow their Facebook page.

That's actually how I connected with Eric to start with.

When I saw he was a speaker at the event, I just reached out and said hey, be on my podcast.

And he graciously volunteered.

And so thank you so much for being our guest today.

It has been, definitely been a pleasure.

So all of you listening, go join my Facebook group as well.

Close it now.

I've been very consistent in branding.

Anywhere you search.

Close it now.

You're going to find my website.

Close it now.net email me.

Sam, close it now.net go to my, go to the Facebook page.

You can jump on Facebook and just search Close it now.

And it will come right up.

So that there's over 1700 members now and is a 100% positive support group.

It's not like some of the other, you know, heating in our Facebook groups that will demolish you.

If you ask a question that is not allowed in my group, that person will go to the block party.

And so, so it's a great place to get some lots of tips.

There's lots of high level people in there.

You know, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, million a year salespeople as well as lots of owners and managers that are just a massive wealth of info and so go join the Facebook group the Profit Rocket event.

I have I'm creating a pin post right now for to buy tickets to the event.

September 27th, 28th, 29th, 2023 I'm going to be a speaker on one of the sales panels.

Mr. Eric Thomas, who is our guest today, is also he has a whole session as you heard.

I'm really excited about Islam Live podcast recording with Victor Rancour and several other just top, you know, top leaders in the industry.

You know we get to learn and you know grab get those nuggets that will change your mindset.

You know the one thing that I learned a long time ago, one is we don't know what we don't know.

And two, the the story we tell ourselves is most of the time the reason why we aren't or can't do it.

And so if we can change that narrative in our mind, then all of a sudden we can be, you know, just achieve more and greater.

So come to the event, come hang out with us, meet us in person and see what's possible in this amazing world of H Vac and the trades and yeah man.

Any last words before we sign off?

No, I think we, I think we hit on a bunch of stuff today, so I appreciate you having me on and look forward to meeting everyone at the event hopefully.

Yeah, good stuff man.

All right, everybody sign off like we always do.

You go out there and save the world one heat stroke at a time.

Thanks for listening to Close it now with Sam Wakefield.

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