Daniel: So how much is that?
Danielle: So.
Jennifer: Welcome to the podcast Ed Mastermind Show. The podcast
by podcast under orders for podcast editors. And real quick,
I'm Jennifer Longworth with Berman Marrow Podcasting and I
am proud sponsor of she podcast live and in person gathering the
largest in fact women and nonbinary audio creators,
storytellers, podcasters and more. And it's happening this
June 19th through 22nd at the MGM National Harbor in
Washington, DC. So if you're someone who's passionate about
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the different choices, is that what you have to learn from whom
and where and whatever? What are you going to do next? Come to
she podcast live she podcasts live dot com. Check it out.
Hopefully your engine and below me you'll find.
Bryan: Bryan and Springer. And to my side is Daniel Abendroth.
Jennifer: And not joining us this evening is Carrie Caulfield.
Eric you'll find her at Carrie Dot Land and we have a special
guest today, Daniel J. Danielle is from Kentucky like me. So
that is why she's there. Well, not the only reason she's here,
but that makes your extra cool.
She's the owner of Arcane design Studios, a 13 year old branding
and identity firm based in the heart of the bluegrass here in
Lexington. She's a podcaster, wife, mom of three lover of
rustic Italian cuisine, Chai cosplay, Star Trek Picard and
live in May. And she is celebrating Star Wars May the
fourth day with all of us. Welcome, Danielle.
Bryan: I feel like we need to stop here and just kind of honor
the fact that she loves Picard. Like, we could just take the
show and move on with that.
Danielle: Oh, right.
Giant Trekkie fan from Mars. And I absolutely love the fact that
even when we get to chat about the technical side of things, I
can always find a way to pull in a level Star Wars or Star Trek.
So you're welcome.
Jennifer: Great. And Daniel's our special guest today because
she reached out to us after having listened to our website
episodes saying she was talking back at the podcast and she was
listening and we want to know what she was saying to us as
podcasting is kind of one way, typically, but we want to hear
what you were, what you were telling us.
Danielle: Oh man, the episode was great. Like, can I just say,
in fact, like the conversation, the lingo, the camaraderie, like
all of that is just so bubbly and it's infectious.
Daniel: Yeah, you can sing our praises all day.
Bryan: Long, if that was what you were saying. This is going
to be great.
Daniel: What else do you like about it?
Danielle: I was leaning leaning that into the next part, which
was we could use some help in the website area. Yeah. And I
definitely I don't have all the answers. I love the fact that
you all leave from that place, which is we don't have all the
answers, but this is what has been working and I love that I
can kind of help if anyone needs that. As far as direction for
what you want to best reflect the services and the people that
you want to see.
Jennifer: So I'm going to jump to the sugar prices, be on your
services page. Question I'm just going to just go right after
that one because I still struggle on with it.
Danielle: As an editor. I do not I do not love them. And that's a
big one because the world tells us that we should have some sort
of base, right or base comparison. So I can do a
starting point figure depending on what type of particular
service I want to to aim for. So I love that. But the other part
of that is, Oh, right, yeah. Going right for the through the
jugular. I really like the fact, too, that when we talk about
listing our services, I push out those features, the cool parts
of working with yourself, whatever that is. I know for
Jennifer it's going to be a bourbon tasting party is going
to be maybe bourbon listening party, maybe even like something
in Around the Love. Jennifer is like my go to person for all
things podcasting. So I love the fact that for Jennifer, that
could be a very specific thing. But what works for Jennifer
isn't going to work for Daniel, right? Maybe a little bit
different. Maybe a stylistically, a little bit different. So when
we come about looking at these websites, there's not like a
generic. You have to have A, B and Z. It really can be more
conform to who you are and the brand values that you want to
bring through your business.
Bryan: I'm listening to this and I'm thinking, you know, I just
spent several hours last week finding an excellent plug in so
I could put my prices back on my website. And they don't look
like cockapoo poop.
Danielle: And what are you comfy with? Like, Dude, what are you
comfortable with?
Bryan: I was comfortable without them, but I was told, hey, like,
let's do it, and that the research supported that. So I
did it. It's been, what, two weeks? It's too early to tell,
right?
Danielle: Yeah. I give you a good 30, 60 days, maybe a full
90 days to kind of see if that would really give you a quicker
turnaround, maybe in communication with with clients
because they see your prices first or they are able to at
least access an ideal scale of what those prices could be. I
love starting points. Prices starting at x $9, I think.
Daniel were you saying that before on I think that was you.
Daniel: I well, I don't remember. I know we talked we looked at a
couple of statistic. Jessica is just like a starting ad or
whatever. And I think that's kind of like where I landed as
far as like a good starting point or like a good middle
ground that we don't have to, like, lay everything out. But
you can get a, you know, the starting point price to kind of
weed out the people who like definitely can't afford your
rates.
Bryan: And to be fair, my starting point, prices are
definitely not the absolute bottom. I'm trying to get you in
so I can sell you up later. Like this is what it would. This is
what it would cost you. But we can talk about scope, right?
Because if you publish once a week versus once a month, that's
a different price.
Danielle: Absolutely. I love that you say that, because I
think that's a really big part of building out what you want
people to see on your website. Is it do I want them to focus on
the numbers? Yes. To an extent, to a certain extent, yes. I do
want them to think about that. But the focus on weeding out,
finding your people, finding your people is so important to
me. It's more important than the actual money they are paying me.
I would rather have the value of a good client who may be in the
mid range of what I would normally charge or in the range
of services that we offer versus a really, really poor client who
pays me a ton of money to do what I need to do. Because at
the end of the day we can only take on so much. We're human,
even though a lot of times as editors, we're forced to kind of
be little miniature robots,
if you will. I think it's very interesting that, yes, we're
going to talk in and out about that like as editor, sometimes
we're seen as robots and we're just robotically going through
life. And it doesn't matter how much it is because we can do it
right and it's in our bandwidth. So that's something to think
about when you talk about listing prices.
Jennifer: So what else needs to be on our Web site? I mean, what
else were you telling us we were doing wrong? I guess the
question I really want to know that you were listening to,
you're talking back and I really want you to talk to us like in
person about this or, you know, as in person. Yeah.
Danielle: Only just enjoy the level of transparency. And this
is something that I do see on podcast, but not enough. Like
you guys are really kind of putting yourselves out there
with, Yeah, I'm comfortable with that. Or No, I'm not comfortable
with that at all. And you know, it was a heck no. I don't know
what writing this podcast is. So I was like, Can you sure? Like
there's a no fly zone for each of you on your own level. But I
also feel like that's also curated based upon the
experience you want to give your customers. So in hindsight, you
want your your website to be a reflection of the people and the
things you are trying to attract, right? Well, a bit of an
attraction game, if you will. So very similar to kind of I'm sure
there's certain questions and I think you mentioned that before
on the original episode. Was there certain things that we
have to ask so that we know what we're getting into? And I think
that's a legit thing you have to know upfront. So that's that
little tango dance that we talk about a little bit in terms of
marketing, but in the sales part of it, there's also a little bit
of a dance in trying to discover the things that you need to know
upfront versus the things that may come out in the wash later
on as the relationship continues. So those are also things to kind
of figure out how you want that to be represented on your site.
Maybe that's an effort to get talked about having an RFQ on
your site, whether or not that's a good idea or whether that's a
bad idea. But most people are having that on their website. So
a lot of those questions that they're thinking about are
already answered in black and white. On your on your page.
There's some other cool aspects that I feel like is kind of
trending right now for websites.
Bryan: Tell us more.
Jennifer: Yes, we need to know.
Danielle: Obviously, you got to please your playlist, things
like that that you want to share. I am loving every piece of
embedded playlists like, but that's like a huge thing that's
not popular outside of podcasting, believe it or not.
So I'm really enjoying that. People are doing that more, but
it's not necessarily staples of work. It's like my afternoon
tunes, my morning wakeup call, like playlists that you would
normally see like on Spotify somewhere. Like you're trying to
draw a little bit more personality onto the website and
people are doing that through through to their music, through
audio samples. And I think that's really cool. So maybe
think about that as like a fun thing, maybe not for the website,
maybe it's for your newsletter, but that is something to kind of
think about in terms of website. The other part that I really
loved about the episode and I was kind of like stomping my
foot about was whether or not to I know. How personal do you want
to be? Are you putting your face up there to put your business
logo up there? What are the I guess the 411 was the behind the
scenes answer on whether or how close you want to be in
proximity to putting your personal face versus a business
logo out there. And I think that completely varies between who
you are, what you do. If you're a podcast editor, that's a
little bit more meticulous. Maybe you're focusing primarily
in a certain niche. I love that Daniel focuses specifically on
coaches. I love the fact that you were able to kind of find
your niche there. However, for a lot of other people, maybe it's
a free for all right. I added podcasts from comics to music to
the news. And so it's really important for me to be open. But
for some people, maybe meeting down is the better is the better
option. So when I think about that, as far in terms of a
website, I want to have all the things that are very popular or
either somewhat trending in those specific specific niches.
So that's really important too. For me, I'm a retro gamer, I'm a
comic lover, so you're going to see me and cosplay pictures.
You're going to see me in fun stuff in and around that
community because that's who I am and I want to attract more
people like that.
Bryan: I've got a couple of questions I.
Daniel: Know I didn't have. Well, I do have just one question for
Brian. What is the name of that plug in? You found.
Bryan: It. I'll have to look it up and send it to you. I don't
remember. It was again theme forest or Code Canyon or
something like that, but I'll, I'll find it. It was, I think 20
bucks or something. It wasn't much but it's not terrible. I
thought it looked pretty good. So one of the things that I
wonder and I think this goes back to all of the branding
questions that you probably ask all of your clients. And so I'm
not trying to get free consulting out of you.
Danielle: But it's Star Wars Day.
Bryan: This is where things get weird for me. So maybe not
everybody knows this. I met my wife through an online dating
service and part of how that happened was filling out forms
and providing information. And then, you know, there was, in my
case, a thousand failed matches before I found the one that
stuck. Right. And so there it was, super grueling on my side.
But that's that's neither here nor there. Part of what the
value of that was there was that they had those questions that
help you understand what you're looking for. If it's a good
personality match, that kind of stuff. How do we approach that
from a business standpoint? So these are the things that I need
to communicate, knowing that there's no form out there that
says, Hey, we're going to match you to the perfect client.
Danielle: Yes. Oh, I love this cool tidbit. I also met my
husband on Facebook, so I relate to that, like figuring out what
what worked. Kind of like the switchboard, right?
Bryan: And so I tell people it was like trying to buy groceries
at the grocery store by looking at the label and going, This
one's got enough niacin or whatever it is, and then you
flip it around and go, But actually this one doesn't make
me feel good, so we'll keep moving.
Danielle: Okay, so we talk about forms. For me, I love forms
because that is a great way to kind of directly slim or trim
the fat, right? I think in a lot of ways you have to think about
if you want to use a form to do that, how does that appear? How
does that approach? Is it accessible? Is it easy?
Accessibility is a huge key and a huge turnoff point for a lot
of people who are not clumsy or savvy, servicing and looking at
multiple sites all the time when they're trying to find a podcast
editor. A lot of times they're going to Jennifer out there
going with people they know, they trust someone. They've had
a joke with a drink with something along those lines. So
in terms of like cold, just looking at podcast editors, a
Google search somewhere and they have a form that they want to
find more information out about you, I think it is important to
kind of pull out certain things, but not everything. So I don't
need to know. They're meeting annual median income for the
year. I may ask something kind of fun and flirtatious, like
what is your favorite color? Who is your favorite superhero if it
goes with your with who you are? Right? But I do think that forms
do help. Kind of trim the fat. Really? Yeah. I definitely have
had people when.
Bryan: I expect you to tell me to just forget about it.
Danielle: I definitely think it's a great way to weed stuff
out, but there's certain times and places I feel like that can
happen. Websites is one asking anyone for any service. If
you're going to apply for a job, they're going to ask you the
same question. So I do feel like this in alignment with what you
are trying to do, which would be asking someone, Hey, I need to
know a little bit more information before we either hop
on a call or maybe discover more about the type of podcast
services that you need. So knowing ahead of time for me,
when I'm doing any type of consultation like that, it's,
Hey, what do you need? Is it podcast episode? Right? Tell me
more about what's the name of your podcast? What is maybe
something you want to do with your podcast that you're
currently not doing? Also asking them a funny question Who's your
favorite superhero and why? Sometimes that's not a required
answer. It's got to leave a base, but it's one of those things
that I do. I do want to know more information about who I'm
working with before they even get to my face.
Bryan: Thanks, Steve has a question.
Daniel: What would the negative consequences be for having a
schedule a call button rather than a list of prices or having
the podcast or fill out form?
Danielle: So based on experience and a little bit of factoid
knowledge here, schedule a call is a lot of times for a consumer
to kind of format A I don't know if I want to talk to this person
just as much as we do it on our side, but happens on the
opposite side too. So even though when they're seeking like
services for podcasting in any way, shape or form, sometimes it
can be alluring to schedule a call. They don't want to make
that level of commitment yet, but they are okay with looking
at your prices and kind of knowing just the base
information. I'm definitely more of an introvert, believe it or
not. I know I'm all over the internet, but very much more of
an introverted person and I struggle sometimes, you know,
even with. So I want to take this call today. Do I really
want to be believed today? Even though we set our own boundaries
and scope of of realm for that. But the negative consequence, I
think, in some areas is too much pressure for the person to
actually act on the schedule or call.
Jennifer: Patrick said. I'd rather die than schedule a call
with anyone.
Danielle: I love that. That's definitely me a little bit.
Sometimes I definitely struggle with that, Steve says.
Jennifer: Then you are my ideal client.
Bryan: Since Patrick's an editor of course not.
Daniel: But once I write the follow up to that, so I have
essentially like a schedule a call type thing. It's a built in
form. You go and you pick your date and time and there's like a
short questionnaire, but it's just like your name, email
address, whether you want avoid a phone call or a video call.
And then like, How did you hear about me? And my idea was to
keep it as simple as possible and not like overwhelm them and
give them excuse to not fill out the form. It's like having too
many questions. And the idea that I'm toying with now is like
keeping that. And then like a follow up email being like,
Thank you, Thanks so much for sharing a call. Just more
information. The most out of call. Like, here's a list of
questions that I have for you. Is that like asking too much or
like what? I guess what are your thoughts on that?
Danielle: I really think that really depends on the client and
I feel like too, it depends on the gamut of what you're wanting
to bring people in. If these people are already comfortable
doing this particular questionnaire a little bit in
between, then that's where you would want to go. But if you
also feel like you're maybe putting yourself too much, put
in too much on the client ahead of time, then that also is a
little bit more adding to them to like, okay, if I have to do
all of this just to talk to you, maybe I don't want to, you know,
do that. So you do have to kind of mind what's on brand for you
if you're already showcasing to coaches that you're a likeable
person that you are, that you do your job well, you're already
showcasing all the features and bonuses without actually giving
them that sort of thing, then I think that is something we can
continue to do, just in my opinion, when I have people ask
me a ton of questions in a questionnaire, I actually I love
questions, by the way, to say, yes, let's talk about it. But I
love being able to answer questions. But if you're the
person, sometimes it's not that. No, let me put it in the email
instead. Like I don't want to literally have that 1 to 1 is
okay to put a little bit of a soft boundary between you and
the client before that point. And I talk a lot in terms of
boundaries, just because families are healthy, but
they're not necessarily meant to keep people out. It's just meant
to let the right people in. And so I really emphasize that even
for podcast viewers on their website, you want to allow the
right people in and kind of just wish the people that you really
don't necessarily want to do business with.
Daniel: Yeah, So the people who don't want to schedule a call,
Steve Stuart, has made it abundantly clear he's not the
editor for you.
Danielle: Check that box.
Daniel: Yet.
So Steve, reply For what it's worth, I haven't lost much time
to people scheduling a call who weren't worth a chat. However, I
can close more sales if I get someone on a call, then through
email or any kind of online activity.
Danielle: Yeah, I relate to that because it depends on how salesy
you are. Like if you're the person that can close that deal
by just talking to them, you hear their voice, then bam! SLAM
That's it. Yes, that's that's the trick. But for people who
are not in that particular area, you know, I'm a person about the
boundary, so I don't force things if it's meant to be. It's
meant to be. What's for you is for you. And I'm a real big
advocate behind that.
Bryan: So one of the things that I've struggled with a bit in
terms of how to approach this is the number of steps to getting
somebody on the call versus the size of the first hurdle. So to
your point, schedule a call for some people is absolutely a
speed bump. However, I have concern also that if the first
call to action is shoot me an email, then I'm inserting extra
steps before we get there. And so I'm not sure how that
interplay works in terms of what's the right, because
there's an element of momentum and hand-holding that happens.
If you say, Shoot me an email and your first response is cool,
let's set up a time, here's a link or something like that. But
I'm not sure, like where's the decision point between creating
momentum with an easy first step versus just it's a one step
process is options.
Danielle: That's really what it is. I can I can be like very,
very upfront about that. It's a matter of what you're
comfortable in letting in, but it's also a matter of what's
accessible, like what is accessible, what's accessibility
for you. And I think it varies or the type of podcast that you
are. And I think that's what makes people want to either seek
you out for that particular service and go through all the
things or yeah, I mean.
Bryan: So for me, you may not know this, but I work a full
time job and I'm a professional editor, so if they want to talk
to me between eight and five, wow, there's a good chance we're
not going to talk about this. I can pre schedule it during a
lunch break a couple of days out because I have other meetings
and believe it or not, the company I work for kind of
expects me to show up and do a job, as you heard. But they have
this expectation, right. And so I have to monitor that.
Danielle: Exactly. Exactly. There's a huge part of podcast
editing for me that is such a natural state, right? A natural
state of being. And there are after five out for five, it's
the galaxy that's not ours, but far, far away, right? Star Wars.
So I'm trying to think out loud, like in terms of wanting to put
the right things on your website. It really is a reflection of
your processes, the way that you do business and your personality
in some areas. Now, if you're a business business like a
corporation, you're you want to be a little bit more harder tone.
I do agree that maybe there's less of that. Your personal
personality and more of your business persona or your brand
value across that. And I see a lot of that in your website.
Brian More of a professional like brand brand. This is who we
are kind of feel, even though it's very much a tag team. Your
wife's right.
Bryan: Actually, it's Daniel whose wife works with him. My
wife doesn't.
Danielle: Oh. Any other way. Yeah.
Okay. So that's that's really what I was getting at was like,
you know, there's a there's a place in a tone that you can
carry. You choose whether that's more of a personality or
personal brand or if that's more of a business businesslike,
corporate sort of feel. And I think there's different
approaches to both.
Jennifer: Yeah, because obviously mine's a more
personality brand driven and I'm revamping the website thanks to
this conversation and.
Bryan: Get ready to do it again.
Jennifer: I know. Well, they haven't started yet and I don't
do my own. Someone else does it for me. And I sent them a mockup
of what I wanted and it involves Bourbon barrel stables. I'd be
more on target with, you know, being bourbon barrel podcasting.
There was no essence of bourbon or bourbon barrels on my website
before. And I'm like, you know, we need to change this.
Danielle: Bring back would be.
Jennifer: To.
Danielle: Me.
Daniel: Yeah and to Patrick's comment Yeah in my gorgeous room
overlooking the sea that isn't actually just a wall with a
green cover on it. So I do want to add in the kind of a thought
that I had about ways like people can contact you. It's I
think if your website is doing its job and attracting the right
people, they and as long as your website is accessible enough
they'll find out a find a way to get in touch with you. So I
think the most common thing is people scheduling a call with me
or video chat, but also like I do have contact form and I have
like throughout my website like semi message, that kind of thing,
and have plenty of people over the years sent me an email when
they have like a question or they want some information. So
for somebody like me who would rather like chat back and forth
on email before I commit to like talking to somebody, like my
website allows for their people, send me a message, you know, we
can chat that way. And for others that want to hop on a
call right away, it's easy enough of that too.
Danielle: Yeah. And this is very much a McDonald's situation.
Jennifer: So it's not the Burger King.
Daniel: But Burger King.
Bryan: Oh, yeah. Whoops. I worked at McDonald's when that
was coming out and it was a thing We started having to make
everybody's sandwiches. Just the way they wanted them was a mess.
Danielle: The customization out there, but definitely thinking
in terms of a little bit of a buffet, you can't cater to
everybody. So if you're if you're really into the realm of,
you know, all things Italian, then stick to the cuisine. I
think it's really important that once you find what works for you
to keep, keep at it. I think that's what helps build more
people, more interest into one to visit your site. And I love
the fact that Jennifer actually podcast last year you did The
Coasters with the Q Are you all right?
Jennifer: That's me.
Danielle: So I absolutely love that because that is a it's a
personal item that you can give to someone that also is a direct
contact to knowing more information about what you do
and how you do it. So to be kind of stole that idea, Don't don't
use it.
Jennifer: You're not the only one who's stolen that idea.
People ask me where I get my coasters all the time and I know
my affiliate code.
Danielle: I love it, but yeah, we do. Gamertag.
Jennifer: Yeah.
Danielle: So I think that it's it's really cool to be able to
find someone that actually is really connected to you in a way
that makes them want to know more about you. And I think the
website is the place to do that. Of course, social media is going
to be around forever and ever, and with new things like AI and
things along those lines, we're finding more tools and
accessibility ways for us to connect with each other. But I
still think the website is still be a central place that you own
to actually connect with other people. So I just want to keep
that in people's minds as well as we can lean on other things
to to, you know, entertain and bring people in through social
media.
Jennifer: So with my website, people, their idea, I told them
on the front of like, I don't know about this, put my prices
on. It was right after our pricing conversation. I'm like,
oh they want my prices on. And and her idea was to do a contact
me for a custom quote and take them to a form. So there is a
schedule, a call button on there, and then there will be like a
custom quote button somewhere because I change my prices every
day, depending on who I talked to. What have you said that you
hold yourself against me by putting them out there. And then
today I'm like, Oh, is this much? And then I went and looked up
and I'm like, No crap. I just cheated myself out of 50 bucks
again and again. I said the wrong number.
Daniel: I had a echo.
Danielle: What I tell a lot of people who work at any type of
technical business is in regards to pricing, always is. You need
to have more than one option in more than one way to display it.
So when you look at like, I don't know, I'm trying to think
engineers websites, when you're looking at other technical print
shops. I worked in a print shop for almost a decade and I
learned some amazing things in and around printing, mass
printing, any type of printing. And what I learned is that they
don't list their prices always upfront. They always have a
customization form or click this button to customize things along
those lines. So that's a great alternative to not necessarily
listing your prices up front. Again, starting at a starting
point would be great so that people can wrap their minds
around that. But having that custom quote where people can
actually put down their customized thoughts and then you
can reply with them with your own customization.
Jennifer: Okay, you're getting some questions. Yeah. So we'll
go.
Danielle: Patrick Okay.
Jennifer: First thoughts on maintaining your own site versus
someone else doing it. He says, I love my professionally
designed site, but I don't have as much control over it now. And
since I'm the one who brought up the I can't design a site to
save my life and when I get control over, I ruin it. So
that's why I have someone else do mine. Thank you. But what do
you think, Dana?
Danielle: Because I design.
Jennifer: Stuff. I know I'm.
Daniel: Not biased at all.
Danielle: I know writers like me. So, yeah, everything I've made
before for myself, for my network, it's been by my hands
or at least gone through my desk. So I do encourage people, if
you're not comfortable with web design, find someone who is If
you are not. It's the same thing with podcast editing, right?
People come to us because they're not comfortable editing
their podcast anymore. As editors. We we do that. We take
that leverage off their backs and kind of take it on, right?
They become a little PED once I really encourage people to do
what's in their life right For me, I am very gifted at creating
websites and podcast editing and graphic design, and I'm very
comfortable with going from Star Wars one day and completely
Picard the next. I'm okay with all of these things, but this is
within my own realm, within my own lane of what I'm comfortable
doing. However, that might not be comfortable for everyone else.
So really, I would lean on if you are comfortable to learn,
then give this a good Maybe if you're not in a wheelhouse of
already trying to learn something new. If one or new
things are really hard for you, don't trust someone else who
does it way. Who is already doing that really well.
Daniel: Yeah. So like my personal story is I struggled
first, like wanted to get a website because like, I know I
design websites and I, I'm very familiar with WordPress, like, I
know I can do it myself, but I'm not so proficient at it that I
can just like knock it out without any issues. It's after
like several months of me struggling, trying to like,
create my website. I finally just like, hire somebody to do
it for me. But then, like, I know enough to, like, maintain
it on my own. Even my response to Patrick as far as like having
somebody maintain it or doing it yourself So personally, I don't
do a whole lot with my website, so there's not much to maintain.
And I use WordPress. So like outside of updating plugins or
whatnot, there's not a whole lot of maintenance there. I do. So I
guess I'm curious about like, what do you mean by maintaining
it and what kind of control do you wish you have that you don't
have right now?
Bryan: Yeah, So I think maybe while we're waiting for Patrick
to answer that, we want to move on to Andrea's question.
Daniel: Yeah, Yeah.
Bryan: Andrea asks whether you have any thoughts on multi-page
sites with a menu versus a single page scroll with
bookmarks to jump?
Danielle: This for me is actually a brainbuster that I
feel like a lot of people struggle with, but it's really
not that difficult. I love the fact that this question is
brought up because a lot of people struggle with this. They
think that by having a singular page, it kind of helps with the
workload. But I will say Endless Scroll was something in 2023 we
are very tired of and people are going back to a little bit more
of the brochure website, which is rather have 3 to 5 pages to
look at that I can look at in 1 to 2 scrolls versus having an
infinite page where I am infinitely scrolling forever and
ever and ever. So I really encourage people for SEO
purposes. It actually is good to have more pages that emphasize
you then one page that emphasizes you. It's kind of one
of those things where you don't know whether or not the domino
effect can happen. You can't start the domino effect if you
only have one page. So it's really an interesting concept
when people ask that because I want to encourage them to branch
out a little bit by having at least 3 to 3 pages. But for the
purpose of whether or not they have an endless role or multiple
pages, I say go for the multiple pages. And can we keep the the
second menu too, like a minimum of like 2 to 3 pages underneath
that.
Daniel: I'm totally like, I guess I'm part of the majority.
It's like I cannot stand single page websites. It annoys me to
no end.
Danielle: Yeah, and this is kind of where I had to grow up quite
a bit because I was the minimalistic person. Like,
here's my cover page, here's the basis of what I do. This is why
I'm good at it now, believe me. And it was all like a singular
page. I've had to branch out a lot. And actually this is where
my my blog really kind of took shape and form. So now that I'm
able to have a website that actually showcases the main
nuggets about what I do, they can have a deeper dive and go
into like more category topics like products like top shows
that I care about or even ways to help them manage podcast
editing and how we can help them models, all those type of things.
So the more that you're putting out, there's the gravy concept,
right? The more we produce, the easier it will be for people to
find and allocate and know more about us. And it's very it's a
very true moment, to be really honest. We talk about that even
in terms for social media, for podcasting. People say, you know,
stick to one or two good meetings. You're really good at
that. You really want people to connect with and then branch off.
And I'm saying from my car awful lot today, it's really just
focus on all the areas as much as you possibly can get in a
good system of doing it and then start really busting out the
level of content that you want to put out in specific channels
versus versus before.
Jennifer: All right, back to Patrick. He has come back about
his his website. The editor is way different and there are
things and instructions. I have not to touch certain parts of it.
I'm one of his first clients was an aunt who's not hands off. So
it's been an adjustment for both of us. Rules about image sizes,
etc. So that's where the the issue is.
Daniel: Yeah, it's a tough balance there between wanting to
have a website that you love versus one that you can actually
adjust as you need to.
Danielle: Maybe you can get like a part time thing where you like
you.
Daniel: Go not.
Danielle: Have like window like only between eight and to be
retouch this website but it was a Friday and then all you do is
your hands off and.
Daniel: On like a clone website that you can make sure it works
before you roll it out.
Jennifer: He says Blogging is where I started, so I struggled
to get my site to look less like a blog. That's why I had it.
Redesign. Yeah, that's a different look. Totally.
Danielle: Yeah. I'm just curious. This is me just asking. I know
you guys mentioned like Divvy. You guys mentioned like the
editors that you're using in some areas. Is anyone like, how
do you guys feel about elements or I use that a lot for
clientele.
Bryan: So on a personal level, I've never used it, but it's
just another framework, right? My opinion, this is as long as
it's a framework that I can understand, I don't mind having
somebody else designed it or something like that. I have one
website that I work on that's not podcast related, that I just
do some updates. It's built in a on a different platform and it's
very designer focused, right? So it's very much on the visual is
very heavy, all of that stuff. I hate it, but it's because I
can't make it do what I want to do because it wasn't designed to
work that way. And so that's that's where the challenge comes
for me. So for me, the answer would be absolutely. If you want
to have a professional designer say, go for it, just make sure
that they use something that you're comfortable with. In
terms of the hand-off. Now, if they're going to continue
maintaining your site like Jennifer's is, well then that's
a different story. Use whatever they're comfortable with as long
as you don't mind being locked in. Right.
Jennifer: And we have another question. Yeah, Yeah.
Bryan: This one's great about this.
Jennifer: Yeah. The quality of a web designer can be very
different. What would be good questions to ask a web designer
to ensure quality, functionality, etc.? Detail.
Danielle: Oh, the go find. I love it. Okay, so first off, I
definitely want to know how long they've been doing it. And this
is a learned practice someone who's really good in their first
year hasn't hit a professional road speed bump yet, but they
have been able to do a lot of coding, right? So coding
experience is good, but we also want to make sure that the
business side of how they conduct business and do business
is also legit. So look for someone who has a little bit of
deeper experience, who've been in the game for a little while
to look for one trick ponies I despise. And I don't want
someone who's going to be able to just work in Joomla. I don't
want someone who's just going to work in WordPress unless I
specifically need the WordPress. I want someone who's a little
bit more advanced, someone who is flexible. Maybe they work
between two or three platforms. I personally work between three
main platforms. None of them include Wix. I want to make sure
like is I want to get yeah, deep down, you know. Yeah. But I want
to make sure that it that it works right like it has to
function. And then I also want to have a, someone who has a
good portfolio, someone who actually can show the work
that's actually out there in the world that you can go and visit.
A lot of people, build a lot of tests and dummy sites, and I
think that's great. I have plenty to spare in the 13 years
that I've been doing it. But I think in a lot of ways that when
you have something that is actually credible, that you can
go and tinker on someone else's site and see if that's in
comparison to some of the features or aspects that you
want on your site that becomes real. So those are the main
things that I feel like you should look out for. I always
love personality with a smile I love dark humor, so if anyone
uses that, that's always cute as one for me. But it doesn't have
to be that way. Find someone who really kind of initiates or
sparks you is usually when that connection happens, you're more
likely to have more of an actual relationship through this
experience versus a cold exchange of just getting it done.
I think I haven't watched some of this yet. Only listen. So
this is cool that I. So you think that.
Daniel: It'd be different if Kerry was here because she
really has a couple.
Bryan: So one of the things I love that you shared about that
was your perspective on what we should ask about. Because in my
mind, if you're wondering what are your prospective clients
wondering as they're looking for a prospective editor, it might
be things along those lines. Are you a one trick pony? Do you
have work that you can stand behind? Can you demonstrate that
you've been doing this long enough that you actually know
how to fix problems instead of just dealing with the perfectly
recorded stuff that you did in audio school? Like those are all
key questions.
Daniel: And I love the personality aspect. Finding
somebody you click with because like the person who designed my
website, like he was okay, but it was hard to communicate. And
so trying to and especially if somebody you can't stand talking
to or don't have like a good relationship with, it makes it
more difficult to explain and ask for the changes and like
what you want in your website. So having somebody be a little
more friendly with, it's easier to kind of like work through
that process.
Danielle: We can all be Klingons and they can't. Great wrong side.
Jennifer: So we have another question.
Daniel: Oh, actually, before we get to that, I do want to
another thing that popped my head when you were talking, as
you said, you like you work with a couple of platforms, so people
maybe want to do it themselves. What are like your
recommendation for platforms to work with and which ones to
avoid?
Danielle: Sure I do love working with WordPress, I do love
Squarespace. I do love even to job. I mean, those are some
really top leagues that I feel like I'm I'm very advanced in.
That takes a little bit of learning especially good job if
that's like your something that you see and you see that price
tag and you're like, I don't know if I should invest on that
level. We're looking at dropping three GS real fast, but I think
it's really admirable for people who are willing to take that
leap and say, Yes, I trust someone who's very skilled in
this area too, to do this work on my behalf. So I definitely
love WordPress, I love Squarespace. I have definitely
done several things hand coded by hand. HTML five. Get out of
here. I know high five. I've gone all the way to the early
parts of of designing all the way to more intricate parts. So
I do like WordPress base. Those are my top two two job would be
a third option if you're if your pocket book is a fourth.
Daniel: Have a bittersweet relationship with Javi Chappy.
Jennifer: Obviously I mean, people who are just listening
can't see your face. But when she said hijabi, you had a
visual reaction down.
Daniel: Side tangent I like I've been working with WordPress
since like when I still were primarily a blogging framework.
My biggest gripe with Hijabi is there's no like clear formatting
button. So whenever I copy paste like a word doc or something and
you go look at the HTML, you have like all this unnecessary
code and make things look weird. So alternative is to like a
paste without formatting. And now you get to go in and like
fix everything and put all the links back in. It's just like
it's one simple function would completely change my perception
of them.
Danielle: I completely agree with that. It's a fair
assessment. I've had some clients that try to do it by
hand and say, okay, you know, I'm going to rebel against this
decade plus years of your experience and kind of wiggle it
out of my own 45 minutes. And they usually come back usually
within a week or two and say their tails on their shirt tails.
Tuckered in there? Yeah, right. I shouldn't have tried this on
my own. Can you help me? And I get that. And then you've got
the people who actually are trying to learn something new.
And because they have not experienced something else
before, this is their new and this is they kind of
precondition. Right. Are reconditioned in some areas. And
I think that can also be a learning experience, too. But I
completely agree. If you're old school, you've been doing it
since the very beginning, and we're going back to The Matrix
almost. And I just feel like this would be a difficult
challenge for you. So it really depends on your learning curve
there. But I do tell people all the time, if you're looking for
just quick, visual friendly platforms, WordPress obviously
is a definite go to. And so Squarespace.
Bryan: Yeah, of those two, I think that Squarespace is
probably the one that's a little bit more newbie friendly. I
definitely, at least my experience has been that
WordPress is way more powerful and extensible, but I really
don't care that much for Squarespace. So I never found
out the limits of what it can do either.
Danielle: Oh man. I mean, like the SEO compatibility alone with
Squarespace, I think that was one of the cooler features when
Squarespace. Squarespace first came out, that was like their
big push was don't worry about the SEO as much, we've got your
back and haven't actually got to work a little bit with the Inner
Circle Committee with Squarespace specifically, if you
don't know about the inner circle, it's like the people who
designed, you know, hundreds or even thousands of sites using
the Squarespace platform, you can get kind of insider
knowledge. You can get free releases, things along those
lines. Check that out. It's called Inner Circle. And I
absolutely love that Squarespace went ahead straight from the bat
and said, hey, we don't want you to worry about the SEO as much.
We'll start taking care of some of that for you. And they did.
They delivered on that promise. The problem was, was that when
they started upgrading a lot of their older platforms and these
newer platform websites, it kind of became a little bit more
begrudgingly. So so yeah, we're going to give you more SEO, but
only this much. And then if you want more, you'll have to pay to
play. And so that got frowned upon, right? So I think they did
lose a little bit of their early audience in the beginnings of
Squarespace when they made that transition. But now for people
who are just looking for quick, easy, I just want to type in a
couple of answers to some of these questions. That is a
definite go to for people are looking to just get started,
either building their own podcast website or even creating
a services page for the services they do in and around.
Daniel: Yeah, I do think with Brian that Squarespace is a lot
easier to use. And another thing, it's impossible to break your
website with Squarespace compared to WordPress. WordPress
is really easy. Install one wrong plug in or you
accidentally try to make an edit and end up deleting a client's
entire website like don't.
Danielle: Now this is the beauty of working with hosting
providers who can provide up to the minute 24 hours I'm in
service. I'm grateful for for people who are not GoDaddy fans.
I'm a GoDaddy fan, have been using it for years. We're
partners with them. We love the ability that we can in one click,
Restore something that happened 5 minutes ago, 5 hours ago, five
days ago, within one click, all within less than 10 minutes of
us logging in. I do like that accessibility feature. Other
sites, other places have done that as well, but I just
personally love having that accessibility through GoDaddy.
We've been using them for eight years almost, and.
Bryan: I wanted to hit this one because it it is worth noting
that with WordPress there can be a lot of hack attacks. So just
be careful. In fact, one of the sites that I manage, it's not
actually my site, but I manage it is dealing with that right
now. There's been an uptick in hack attacks. I use some
security protocols that I have in place and so I'm like
literally on this call, I'm still blocking IP because it's
bouncing from the Netherlands to China to whatever, Right. That
stuff is happening. But yeah, What are your thoughts, Danielle,
in terms of what tools we might use to protect ourselves from
attacks?
Danielle: Absolutely. I use security stand. I have I love
being able to use a very whatever. How do you even
pronounce all the way? I ask the NSA customer service, I might
pronounce it. Is it security scan or security scan? Like I
don't I don't know how the letters come together anyway. I
absolutely love using them. I use them for malware purposes
all the time. There's also oh gosh, there's another one.
Bryan: I use word fence. I'm not sure if that's what you're
thinking of.
Danielle: That's one I've heard of as well. I personally do not
use it, but yes, I've heard of plenty of other people who are
developing WordPress websites. Use that as a base for malware
protection if you think of hacking things along those lines.
So I encourage people do their homework. There is some innate
things that naturally come, some from the hosting provider in
regards to making sure you have scans on your website on a daily
basis. So that's also something to think about depending on
where you are, whether you're with Bluehost or GoDaddy or I
think this is what we were talking about before and I don't
even know, is it the virus die? Various die? Yep. So this is one
that I personally use and I definitely can guarantee that
this is top tier. So I absolutely love to that. Even
when we talk about malware protection that people are aware
of it because a lot of people still build their websites
thinking that my hosting has it. But really hacking is just going
to continue to elevate over time. So this is something that you
should be very aware of and taking the proper steps to
protect your website.
Jennifer: Facebook user has a good karma. If you have your own
domain for your website, it's always good practice to email
like hello at your domain instead of gmail hotmail outlook
so you can market your domain instead of Gmail and more
professional, you would need your email hosting though. Blah
blah blah. Yeah, but. But my mind breaks sometimes and Carri
broke her email once too. So I mean is a challenge.
Danielle: I love my business. Business Gmail, I've never
stopped ever using it, so it works out great for me. That's
linked directly to my domain. I have to worry about, you know,
not informative, know I'm a team of team of six women across five
countries. So it's really important for me to to make sure
that everyone has singular working emails. Domains are
working together adversely in the universe. So I think it's
really for me, this is a no brainer. Like, I love being able
to have that type of security. Gmail has not failed me. Sorry.
Okay.
Bryan: So one of the things I'm wondering as we think about
websites, right, because we've talked about maybe some design
elements and some of that stuff, but I think there are some of us,
me included, who are wondering, like, is my website really
working for me or against me? If you were going to go take a look
at somebody who's website, what are maybe a couple of things
that you would have them look at and maybe try to self-diagnose
some things before you start taking the next step?
Danielle: How fast does your page load? That's usually the
number one indicator.
Bryan: And what's it? Is it like less than a second? Less than
half a second? What? What's your target?
Danielle: I would say anything under 2 seconds. I mean, that's
really, to be honest, two and a half.
Bryan: Okay.
Danielle: I hate to say even three, because sometimes even
the third just kind of bogged down from there. I really tell
people if it takes too long for you to to say, huh, that's doing
too long. Like it's it's taking too long to load. So page speed
is usually my definite go to as an indicator if something is not
working well on your website. The second one would probably be
if your WordPress was your plug ins, taking a look at plug ins
would be the second area that I would look at on the back end
just to see if that's something that's all. Everything's
compatible. It's working for you. You wouldn't believe how many
times, even though we say like automated data, sometimes it
doesn't necessarily auto update or something happens in between
the last update in the current update to where it drops and
then you're just stuck and doesn't refresh at all. And if
you go monthly refreshing your website, that could be a
potential 30 days of something else affecting your site,
preventing people from wanting to interact with you. Right. So
we want to try remove as many website roadblocks as possible.
So that would be another area to go to. Another one would be
heavy for you. So if you've got heavy files on your site now,
for a lot of people, they're like, okay, you know what's
heavy? Obviously, if it's taking forever to load the one graphic
that's at the top of your page, your your hero graphic or
whatever that may be, we need to rethink about resizing that or
stripping it down a little bit in file size so that you can
actually have it load up as fast as you want it to. Again, you
have that three second rule for people to make that first
impression of you. That's it. 3 seconds. That's really it. The
first 3 seconds, I can tell whether or not I want to keep
scrolling or I'm going to lift up my thumb and scroll to
another page. I'm going to take tock instead of going to you.
You know, that's really all you got that's the that's my main
things that I would look at primarily.
Bryan: Thanks.
Danielle: Yeah.
Bryan: I mean, I feel like I've talked too much, so I'm trying
to be quiet so everybody else can have a chance.
Daniel: So having a good foundation knowledge, I
understand from what back design communication is important. Do
you have any resources for that?
Danielle: I'm saying website. Yes. Me I do all of these things
I teach and all these things. I actually have a yearly
educational brand intensive that we hosted at the last three
months of the year called Q One Essentials, where I actually
teach live class in a group setting very similar to this,
and we talk everything from resources for your website to
domain protection to basics of WordPress.
Daniel: Awesome. And where can they reach out if they want to
talk to you?
Danielle: Lex Octane dot com. That is my jam. Instagram is my
number two jam, so you can actually hit me up there if you
ever want to chat one on one. But yes, those are the two main
places that I would love for people to get us.
Daniel: And quick. Now apparently hashtag podcasting is
trending on Twitter.
Bryan: So Instagram's your jam, but I don't see it linked up on
your website. I was going to go click through so I could grab
your link.
Danielle: So it's at the bottom. Okay, I'm working. So to be
really honest, our website actually tweets.
Bryan: Is perfect timing.
Danielle: Is being redesigned right now. So it comes out at
the end of this month so we can look out for that. It will
include a playlist of Tower songs by the ladies of T
Montaigne. So it will be, I'm sure, full of it.
Daniel: All right, final question. You said you're a
retro gamer. Give us one gaming recommendation and we'll do
project.
Danielle: Oh,
don't rush into the dead zone.
Daniel: Okay.
Danielle: Now, if this is is something coming from Mario,
years of Mario, years of the Sonic, the Hedgehog, years of
Tetris. Don't go into the dead zone. You don't have to go in
there. I know sometimes it's very if you want to go in there
and you want to hurry up and just get it in, maybe get the
goodie or the extra or the bonus or whatever, you don't have to
do it. You can just bypass that. You get to the end. But I do
tell people all the time life is more like Tetris and less like
Mario. So that's my quote for this.
Daniel: Okay, put that on a t shirt.
Jennifer: I think you don't you.
Danielle: Know, but I do have like Prince and all the things.
So, yeah, I'm I'm sitting here with Sonic tonight. So we're
we're making it real. We're going to happen.
Daniel: All right. So, Danielle, give us a number between one
through five. Normally Brian does that, but he's given me the
privilege of doing the podcast question tonight.
Danielle: Who? Okay, I'm going pick three.
Daniel: Okay, perfect. If you could send a message in to the I
think we've done this before, but if you could send a message
to the entire world, what would you say? And 30 seconds.
Danielle: Oh, shoot, let's not my 30 seconds, Michael. Same
thing. Life was more like Tetris and less like Mario.
Daniel: They love it.
Jennifer: Don't bother Blue. Yeah.
Daniel: My.
I would say whatever is bothering you is probably not as
important or won't seem as important in a few years. So
focus on the good and live your best life.
Bryan: I think mine would require a megaphone, but it
would be stop being mean to each other. Oh I'm a parent too, so
I'm saying that a lot.
Jennifer: Otherwise mine is. If you can't be good, be funny.
Daniel: Okay. And if you have an answer to the question, feel
free to leave it on our website. You just go to podcast. Editor's
message My dot com Find the episode number 76 and leave a
comment on that blog post. Patrick says Mine is Be Good
Children, which is good because he's a teacher. So I'm sure
that's probably something he says on a daily basis. And Kyle
says, Be kind, which I think, yeah, we need more of.
Bryan: Yes. Steve says, Thank you, Danielle in the voice of
Yoda much I have learned today. That's great.
Jennifer: You didn't do it in The Voice.
Bryan: I can't do Yoda's voice. I can barely do Bryan's voice.
Daniel: Danielle, can you do the Yoda voice for us?
Danielle: Oh. Oh, man, I know you're going to ask that
question.
Daniel: Okay, that's fair. That's fair. Yeah. But you want
to be a guest on the show. Just do exactly what Danielle did. Go
to podcast editor. That's mine dot com. Be a guest spot the
form. It sends us a message and we'll be in touch. And this is
where the yard expert like Danielle is and have incredible
incredible insights and information that you want to
share to the community at large or if you are struggling with
something in your own podcast editing business and you want
the advice of your colleagues, it's all the same. Fill out the
form and we would love to have you on.
Jennifer: I'm Jennifer Longworth with Barber and Barrow
Podcasting. You can find me at Bourbon barrel Podcasting dot
com new website coming soon.
Bryan: I'm Brandon Springer you can find me at top tier audio
dot com and next to me is.
Daniel: Daniel Abendroth in a five year rap media audio.
Jennifer: In our special guest.
Danielle: Oh I'm Daniel with Octane science and you can find
me at look blockchain dot com.
Jennifer: And not appearing tonight is Kari copy Eric at
Kari dot land. Thank you all for joining us and we will see it in
about two weeks at 905 Eastern time.
Daniel: Pay.
So how much is that?
So
you.