[00:00:00] Digital Dominoes. So welcome to another episode of Digital Dominoes. I'm really excited to be talking to Lindsay Gross, who is a senior at Duke University, and we are gonna talk about, uh, the Gen Z, the younger generation in tech, and try to dispel a few myths, especially understand how they could and should be empowered really to take more control of the.

This mess of an online world that we've created. So Lindsay, thank you for being here. Of course. Thank you so much for having me, Angeline. I'm really excited to speak here and hopefully empower the younger generations. Do you wanna start by telling us a little bit about yourself? Sure, yeah. So I am a senior at Duke University studying public policy and digital intelligence.

So my coursework and experience has mostly been in the [00:01:00] intersection between business technology and ethics and also policymaking. So I've been very fortunate to have experience at Duke doing research in cybersecurity, doing research on the harms of social media, also doing AI ethics research for a VFX company.

And I've also worked as a consultant for large social media platforms. Basically managing their risks and helping them figure out what stakeholders to talk to to mitigate their risks in the best possible way. And now I am trying to get my foot in the door more in the trust and safety industry. And people like Angeline have been so helpful making my voice heard, and I'm just trying to speak on behalf.

And with the younger generation, since we often don't have a seat at the table. Or not yet? I think so too. And I really think that's a shame. I mean, I think that's how we got connected originally. Um, we [00:02:00] reached out to someone else in my network and he knew that I was trying to help the younger generation get a voice.

I do want to start with one thing that we were discussing before. So this book, and I don't wanna get political, but. We have to talk about politics, uh, in, in this particular case. So this book came out from a Facebook whistleblower, Sarah Wind Williams, and I saw an interview by her and she was talking about how in the last election that the Facebook employees were sitting down to next to the Trump campaign team and teaching them every trick they knew about how to harness the power of Facebook to target people.

And in LinkedIn now, one person commented. This is a huge global problem. A generation of TikTok and Facebook consumers with a lack of critical thinking has started voting. So it's a pretty powerful statement, right, from that person. I mean, you wanna give us your thoughts on this? Yeah, well, I mean, that's a very [00:03:00] packaged response to the book, but I think like by saying that.

Younger people voting is the issue there from that comment is kind of searing it in the wrong direction. I think that it's more so about how these corporations have no guidelines. They really just have voluntary ethical commitments and they don't have to, at least in the US, they don't have to go to the government and comply with many legislation or regulation, at least federally.

So then they're able to. Work with the government in maybe non bipartisan ways, and then that ends up affecting everyone on social media platforms, not just the younger generation. And I think that's a huge misconception that this collaboration with the government, with a large social media company, with the government is.

Only going to affect and like create biases for younger people that use a platform [00:04:00] because people of all ages are on the platform and are voters that are being influenced. I think so too, and I think that's actually very harmful because if, I think people my age who remember life before Facebook and social media, basically we did all sorts of stuff wrong in the first 10 years of social media.

Like sharing our children's entire lives and stuff like that. And this is one thing I've really been trying to wrap my mind around, because this is a huge gap between a lot of people in the different generations, is the older generation kind of looks down to, you guys are such a mess. You need to do this and this and this to be safe and be better.

But on the other hand, I mean there's a lot, you have a much more experience with it. You are actually digital natives. Not everyone likes that word, but. I do. I think it fits quite well. Yeah. And we're not listening to each other. Right. Yeah, I agree. It's like almost ironic that there's [00:05:00] so many child safety programs and it's all adults that are creating and implementing the programs without having children at the forefront and like knowing actually how they're experiencing social media and their impact, like from growing up with it and just from.

Experiencing it now and if these guidelines that adults are putting in place are actually working for the targeted group of people. So it is interesting. Kind of like blaming the people that you're trying to control almost, or I don't know. That's a good way of saying it. I think it does a lot have to do with control.

I mean, obviously well intended control. Yeah. But still I, I think about it sometimes. I also do my full networking on a social media platform. I just have one 'cause I'm not very good with the social media, but I also can't imagine it any other way. Like we are a global society and [00:06:00] you probably even more have just grown up into this open world.

And social media is just the place where we found to communicate with each other. Right, and even more for you I guess. Yeah. I feel like even on LinkedIn when I'm scrolling, it's not really people in college or high school coasting. It's more so like people higher up in their careers, maybe like 35 and up, I would say posting, trying to like increase their network.

So I'd say, I guess on LinkedIn, maybe on Instagram or TikTok, it's different because my feed is catered to me, so it's more so younger people. But LinkedIn, I feel like it's more so about your interests and not really your age. I don't know if you agree with that on LinkedIn, if that's No, I do. I do. Yeah.

There's a big disadvantage for me if I want to connect with the younger generation. Yeah. I'm only on LinkedIn. I count on people like you, the few young people who are there. Um, but it's true. I mean, that's reason [00:07:00] most people are there. Right. To increase their network. Yeah, the question is right, like, I agree with you that the things we're trying to do to keep the younger generation safe, although it should be, you know, everyone safe, is not really involving the younger generation.

And I've also heard this from, in terms of privacy, there's always like, don't share your data, don't do this, don't do this. And I've heard a lot of, I also read an article the other day written by a 17-year-old saying, just we know what to do. Right. So just kind of leave us alone. And I think that's a bit of an extreme, but I think a lot of young people probably think that way.

Like, what's your experience like? Yeah. I think that is a little extreme for me, for my opinion. Like just leave us alone. I don't really think that makes sense either because just. Leaving it how it is, is clearly not working. Like I'll say maybe my shampoo brand out loud to my roommates and then an hour [00:08:00] later they'll get an ad for that shampoo brand.

Like clearly, like we're being listened to, like our, our privacy is not secure. So like something does need to happen and I can't change that just from like the efforts that I put in. We are each making our own little dent, but. At the end of the day, it is a big group effort and to make like a tangible impact.

You can't just like leave it alone. And I would say that younger people, like this 17-year-old girl and other students who are interested in this field or just have grown up with technology, I'd say are extremely tech savvy, probably more than older generations, but. That doesn't mean that like even if you know how to use Instagram or TikTok or you can text really fast, that doesn't mean that you're actually protecting your data.

It might just be kind of not losing hope, but I feel like a lot of the people that I know are kind of like, oh, well this is what I've grown up [00:09:00] with. Like they have all of my data. They have my credit card number saved into Google Pay. Like, so what? What's gonna happen to me? So it's kind of like this almost defeat.

I. That's actually two things I want to point. I'm, I'm laughing about the shampoo pen. It's such a good example. People my age and I would say I can speak for the ones around me are up to 10 years younger, are still like baffled how that happened. I have been working actively with the people around me just trying to set their settings to make that stop happening.

But you know, there's so many different settings. I know so many. Yeah. All the locations, it's hard to keep control. Yeah. And you tell them, you're like, oh, I, no idea. So I, I do believe you that young people is, this is something that these simple conversations we need to have, you know, like, like why is this appearing?

And you can explain, well this and this and this, and the other one is also a big problem. And not just young people, [00:10:00] but I think it's worse in young people because they have more data view from, from early on. This like. Well, do you have an experience of arguments that work or things that work to help these people see it differently?

I'm trying to think. It's definitely hard because it's more so like putting yourself in other people's shoes. Like I, I feel like it kind of reminds me of what I'm talking to a boy or a man about, like being a woman and like, you can just go on a run at 9:00 PM but I can't. And then it's kind of like explaining.

In that sense. So kind of like explaining from someone else's point of view, like maybe I live, not to get political, but maybe I, I live in a red state and I have an emergency and I need to get an abortion and I can't do that legally and that state, and maybe I go to the CVS and I get drug facilitated [00:11:00] to.

Help me, and then my phone and credit card is tracking that information and then the government is able to access that information and then that would end up putting me in a legal situation for trying to get medical assistance. So it's like. Kind of putting that into perspective for people maybe in blue states or in another country, like it makes absolute sense, and I really like that example because the world hears about the American news, right?

Even the people who are listening who aren't in America will know. This is a really good example. People feel so passionate about it. They're not in the middle usually. That's a really good example that if you connect it to something that people care about most Exactly. Right. And then they'll understand, yeah.

That this is a deeply personal choice that you can get basically followed on. And the data is also saved, right? Yeah, exactly. And so you never know, like the [00:12:00] laws can change. And it was okay before. And, uh, in an extreme case, they can even, you know, backdate it and it's all of a sudden it's not okay, or at least you're on a list.

So, yeah, I really like that example. It's kind of like the Facebook Analytica case study too, which is like. All of our photos and likeness is like on the web and like who knows what technology there will be in 10 years just because we've taken a photo and someone else posted your photo on LinkedIn, then now that's on the web and who knows like what people can do with your face since it's publicly available.

It's like you never really know. So it's better to be safe than sorry? I would say so, yeah. I guess just tips for people is, I guess for the American perspective, is. That could be a way to make them feel something or kind of like resonate with them. And then I guess for other countries it's thinking of something else that's more relatable.

Yeah. I think each country has has their own. Yeah, [00:13:00] definitely. One thing kind of related that I want to talk to you about is ai. I'm a little bit obsessed with how AI is already like this predictive AI that's kind of built into. Banking and hospitals I, I know from the US 'cause there's a lot of data published about it, like how it's really ingrained university, getting jobs, everything.

I can only imagine how difficult that must be. Like starting out life and knowing there's an invisible AI that is kind of making decisions for you. Yeah, it is kind of scary, at least for me. There wasn't AI when I was writing my college applications, which I'm like kind of mad about that. Like now people do have that because it was just so much writing and now you could just give them a prompt about your life and your interest and it could probably write something like half decent that you could work off of.

But yeah, like in college it [00:14:00] is interesting. I mean, if you don't know how to use AI to like enhance your work, I. Then you're gonna fall behind just because that is like a tool now it's like a calculator. Like if you're in a math class where you're doing 384 times 1,320, it obviously would be faster if you have a calculator rather than doing it in your head.

And now it's kind of like that's our new reality with ai. That I've kind of just come to terms with, but I'm still kind of like, what is going on? Is anyone actually writing their own thoughts? Is this. Ethical. Is this okay? Is this us just being efficient? Like there's still so much unknown about how I feel about it.

That's a good point actually. What you also said about needing to use it in terms of efficiency, because it is, I hadn't thought of that before, but for sure, not all of them, but there will be professors that say, okay, I know that you're using [00:15:00] ai, so I. I can imagine, yeah, that that's definitely a problem.

And that was with the thoughts, and I am really worried about that as well, because obviously each tool has its own agenda in terms of what's right and what's wrong, and it's very difficult. To recognize, it's very difficult to recognize that maybe a course in how to recognize the bias of this particular AI output could be a huge, huge added value, right.

For E everybody. Yeah. Yeah, for everybody. So the education is like. How your thoughts are gonna be impacted by ai. But then it's also, you said about the college application also this, you would've had ai, but also the, the university would've had AI and employers have ai. So it's a whole different way of thinking.

I know people my age that can't figure out why they're not getting, they're applying and no reaction. [00:16:00] And I'm pretty sure it's because there's AI on the other side. Oh. Like they're applying at jobs and there's no reaction. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like the. A TS, the AI resume screening. If you don't have those buzzwords that they're screening for, then you're just gonna get pushed to the side.

So it's really, you have to cater around to the new reality, which is like a world with ai. Do you have the feeling that you are, you're all just like helping each other with this, or they're like. Older people that are helping you as well? I'd say it is, at least in my experience, doing the digital intelligence certificate at Duke.

There's a whole group of faculty and experts that are adults that are like very knowledgeable in the AI space and who I've learned so much from, and they've given me hope that. People older than me do care, and they are trying to educate younger people to use it [00:17:00] ethically and just be able to use it to better themselves and better the world.

And so I don't think that it's really just us younger people against the whole world trying to figure out how to best use ai. I guess another example could be Metaphysic ai, where I interned for a few months. They use generative AI to. They're saying is like to enhance creativity and to enhance entertainment.

So they basically do the impossible by, for example, aging Tom Hanks from like 60 years old to 20 years old in real time. So they can just take a photo of him when he's 60, and then in real time he'll be 20. So it's kind of like you can use AI for not just efficiency purposes, but also for. For fun and creativity and different ways to look at the world and.

There's different products out there to help the environment remove carbon dioxide. There's like so much out there that's more than just [00:18:00] efficiency and productivity, which I think people don't really focus on. They just kind of focus on the chat bots right now. I think so too. That's a good point actually.

A lot of people can imagine the chat bots because they can. Just imagine talking to anyone. It's a really, really good point that actually there's a lot more that is already like ingrained everywhere that we're not talking about at all. Is it influencing us already a lot more than we think? I really think as you were talking that it would be so important, but we know this.

But the question is how that, that we need to, to talk together more like the ai older generation skeptics. And I noticed that in our panel as well. This like optimism towards ai. We have to find a middle ground. 'cause I think each of us is right in their own way. Just from like a youth perspective, what's the best way to.

Build bridges between the different generations in these topics. I think the first part is just [00:19:00] people being open to hearing others' opinions. It's one thing. To message someone on LinkedIn and then you're making the effort, but you also need it to be reciprocal for them to listen to you and have a conversation.

Like I've been on little coffee chats with people where I'm talking to someone who is like a mentor to me, but it's kind of just them talking at me. Not really a fluid conversation where we're each learning something as if like, I don't have anything to give because I'm younger and they're the older, more superior person.

So I feel like it's just being open to different opinions and perspectives. Even if maybe someone has 20 years of experience in social media, ai, technology, product management, whatever it may be. That's extremely valuable, but it's also so different from someone who has 20 years growing up with this [00:20:00] technology and seeing how it's changed and maybe has four years of experience learning about, uh, visual media studies or design or computer science.

Like it's a completely different trajectory, but it also offers a different opinion. So I think it's just people need to be more open and do more than just. Not the bare minimum, but um, just like having conversations and trying to, I guess, change. I don't know, like No, no, it makes sense. This reminds me when I worked in a financial institution and I, I understood that to get ahead, I needed to realize I can learn from everybody.

Yeah. And that's what you just described, like we have to understand that we can learn and should learn from everybody. Because as you say, you grew up with it. You can see your peers, you speak to them every day. Uh, the rest of us can just, can imagine like how it must [00:21:00] be, but yeah, and it's really equal footing and it's the young, in my opinion, that is equally informed in different ways.

It's a different kind of informed than it ever has been, maybe in terms of maybe some time in the past, but in the recent history. So that's a really good point. We're almost out of time, but if you can say like your dream, like of the next 12 months, what would it be in terms of AI or tech? And that's a really big question.

I think that I'd like to see more efforts that include children in protecting their safety online instead of. It being more of a power dynamic of superiors and people older up creating these guidelines and implementing them for younger people and rather more of a collaborative effort where not just their experiences from like a bird's eye point of view are taken into account, but actually talking [00:22:00] with them and creating realistic, tangible effort and change, like for example.

I was just reading about this Google Summit where it's, I think it's called Growing up in the Digital Age. Basically the whole seminar was adults talking, and then they had like a few 17 year olds come for a little bit, but it's ironic almost that that's what the panel is called, and then it doesn't actually involve the people who are growing up in the digital age.

So I think that in the next 12 months, I hope that there's more initiatives like the SHIELD Conference. Where people can collaborate across generations and experiences and backgrounds to create a safer online world for everybody despite. How old they are or despite where they come from. I love it. I'll just add one thing.

It's true this, this thing of like the token minority, whether it be a young person or an African or an Asian is, is a real problem and this needs to stop. [00:23:00] Yeah. The two of us will work together to, to help at least with the different generations 'cause it's really important. I fully agree. And so thank you so much.

It was really great talking to you. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Angeline. This was amazing. And that brings us to the end of this episode of Digital Dominoes. We hope you've enjoyed learning about another piece of the puzzle that makes up the vast and complex digital world. Remember, you can find all our episodes and more@digislashdominoes.com.

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