Welcome to Rabble Rants, I'm Santiago Hilo Quintero and alongside Jess McLean, we're going to unpack

the stories that have us most riled up and challenge the narratives around them. Alright so the

other day I tweeted out that I was absolutely horrified that the Ontario provincial government

announced you know half a million dollars or more funding for anti-Semitism education in

our schools. And I know that sounds ridiculous, but it's until you find out that they the organizations

that they are providing all this cash to are the same folks we have been talking about for

400 days. And that is primarily the Israeli lobby group. We're talking CJA, Friends of

Simon Weisenthal and Liberation 75. Yeah, they're all going to split like $553 million and go

round to our schools. and they're going to teach them about what anti-Semitism is. And if you're

a long time listener of the show, you'll understand why. We're going to completely unpack it because

I think the lengths to which this ties into Canada at the same time, I mean, the same week,

adopting the IHRA definition of anti-Semitism, they're not the first country to do it. Some

municipalities and provinces have adopted it worldwide. It's becoming very common, even

though the objections to it are great. So that's primarily what this rabble rant is going to

be about, not just unpacking the Ontario funding, but the definition and what that means for

people working within the movement right now. even if we just kind of set aside the definition

problems right now, because those organizations, they all completely push this definition of

anti-Semitism, which conflates anti-Zionism or even anti-Israeli critique with anti-Semitism

or being anti-Jewish. And you know, that's a problem for so many reasons. But these organizations

are not the ones to be teaching our children, even if they had a well-defined. you know,

idea that they were providing. It's the tactics that they have employed and the fact that these

organizations have been actively celebrating the actions of the Israeli troops. They have

been at the forefront of harassing Palestinian solidarity activists, any media that dares

to challenge the Israeli narrative. And they have been a formidable presence here in Canada

to try to suppress Palestinian solidarity. They spew anti-Palestinian racism daily, unchecked.

And the fact that they're so tightly embraced and this definition is being adopted with a

legal framework, you know, officially. is very, very dangerous. This is a slippery slope to

fascism. The issue isn't that, like from looking at it from their perspective, like what they're

talking about, like our issue with it isn't that they're anti- like it's not anti-racism,

it's anti-racism against Jewish people specifically as it relates to things like Israel, right?

If you were truly concerned about racism, there would also be a concern about the anti-Palestinian

racism, which is not a concern. And it's this constant equation, equating of Judaism and

Israel. I mean, Lately, I've been spending a little bit less time on Twitter lately because

I've been quite busy. When I am on Twitter lately, I'm actually horrified at how much legitimate

anti-Semitism I am seeing. I mean it's a lot. We're talking Nazi type antisemitism. There's

a lot of antisemitism coming from the right wing. There's a lot of antisemitism in society

in general. That is true. That is not the type of antisemitism, or at least, yeah, that isn't

their primary concern here when they're talking about antisemitism. They're talking about Palestinian

liberation. They're talking about advocate against the genocide of Palestinians. Against colonialism.

You can't do that here. You know, and that's what I mean when it's like this slippery slope

into fascism because it's we have now the state telling us it's essentially criminal for you

to advocate for Palestinian liberation because that means the erasure of Jewish people. That's

what this definition does, right? Like seven out of the, what, 12 points or 11 points that

are there is directly tying those two together as though the idea of Zionism, you know, that

there is a land without people and a people without a land. That is just textbook. colonialism,

right? And why the Canadian state feels it upon themselves to protect that kind of definition

that is the Jewish people can only operate in the confines of Zionism, which we already know

is not true, then that becomes that dangerous step to can we then criticize the Canadian

state? If they're able to do it this way for a foreign state, surely that opens the door

for other things. We're already seeing like direct implications too. Um, because it frames

Palestinian solidarity, you know, as anti-Israeli, which it is. I mean, who supports it? I mean,

it's any reasonable person at this point should have legitimate criticism of Israel, but then,

you know, you also have people who are yelling from the river to the sea in. an assertion

of Palestinian autonomy, of liberation. And the Ontario Crown has essentially used that

definition to then greenlight violence against Palestinians or Palestinian solidarity activists.

So in the case of Haifa Abdel Khaliq, Ms. Abdel Khaliq was waving a Palestinian flag at the

Ontario City Hall back in May. She was chanting from the river to the sea and a Zionist woman,

Lorna Birnbaum, came up behind her and ripped off her hijab. And, you know, thanks to the

power of the internet, she was identified and charged. The case just came to a point where

the Crown went before a judge and explained that they were actually dropping the charges.

And the reason that they're dropping the charges is because she was chanting, the victim was

chanting from the river to the sea. They said that equated to the genocide of Jewish people.

So not only does... You know, this focus on anti-Semitism really tried to erase anti-Palestinianism.

Like it's like that it pays it no mind. It actually is anti-Palestinian racism. That definition,

that definition that, you know, the assertion of one's liberation to its original state is

somehow violent and criminal and means the erasure of people. Like only a Zionist would assume

that. Right? We've talked about that before. So in this case, you have the prosecutor, you

know, representing the Crown, representing the people, saying that it was okay that she attacked

that woman, that Laura Birnbaum attacked that woman and ripped her hijab off. They acknowledged

that actually was a form of violence to do that. The judge agreed, and but there were mitigating

circumstances that provoked her to do it. And I mean, what is all of this going to mean for,

you know, other activists? This, this is dangerous. It's also just really strange from a legal

framework. Like if, like, does that mean bar fights are legal now? You know, like if, if

someone pisses you off enough, if someone says something mean to you, are you allowed to just

punch them now? is no they've said it's more than just insulting it's not that they thought

lorna was insulted that she genuinely could fear that this was someone calling for the

erasure of her people because your bar fight you aren't backed up by things like the ir

the ihra definition this is creating a legal framework to assert that yes this is violent

speech and people saying as much, you know, you need protection from, that it's reasonable

to want to lash out at those people and enact violence on them. And if you do so, you won't

face charges. So you asked me earlier though, can that, can I punch a Nazi? And I would say,

yes, you can, because a Nazi would generally be advocating for this, actually be advocating

for a Jewish genocide, right? Like there would be no arguing that. So I would say we've, although

there's a dark side to that, surely we can all punch Nazis now legally. I mean, I, I've been

at rallies where I've both photographed and seen people doing Nazi salutes in front of

police. Police obviously do nothing. Not that we would expect them to. Be nice to know that

we can just punch them apparently. I mean, I'll take that win, but clearly that's not who this

is targeting, and it's not who they're concerned about. I mean, I've genuinely heard very little

conversation about the legitimate rise of old-school anti-Semitism. That doesn't seem to be a topic

of conversation for these groups that are apparently so concerned. with anti-Semitism. Well, it's

so easy to understand, though, especially in this time where people are inundated with images

of what the state of Israel is doing. And I don't mean like overhead shots of bombs. We

are seeing the implications on people's bodies, like children's bodies. And, you know, then

you're telling people that Israel is directly related to all Jewish people. that their actions

are intertwined, their goals are intertwined, that they're inseparable. But the whole point

of anti-Semitism, you know, well, not the whole point, there's old tropes and awful stereotypes

that are perpetuated and violence. But you know, the idea that you could like blame all Jewish

people for what Israel is doing, that's anti-Semitic. But it ceases to be when you tell them that

any critique of Israel is anti-Semitic. You are telling them that they're one in the same,

Zionism, Israel, and Judaism, and there's no exception. And we're seeing that played out

in the streets, you know, where Jews say no to genocide or any Jewish person objecting,

lots, thousands. They're like being disowned. They're being shouted down as not being a real

Jew. And so there are many people working to solidify this conflation. of these two ideas.

And so it's no wonder when you see all these images that you become anti-Israeli. And so

by definition, you then become anti-Semitic. So how much does that term mean after that?

The irony being, of course, that anti-Semitism and pro-Zionism can both exist in harmony.

And they do. Right? And that's kind of what I'm talking about here. Like there's a lot

of people who are anti-Semitic, who are pro-Zionist. Right? They see it as, okay, well, if the Jewish

people want to go and as long as they're not here and they have their own country over there

where they can do whatever they want, as long as it's not affecting us, that's fine. Right?

Like you think of like the Christian Zionists as an example. Right? So that's more what I

mean here is like it as a definition of anti-Semitism, it really just fails to capture what, in my

opinion, is a much more common, much more aggressive, hateful, threatening form of anti-Semitism.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, you're now associating Jewish people with the most horrific things we've

ever seen and apartheid and all of these things we've been told to hate. And so, yeah, it's,

but, you know, those people obviously don't give a shit about actually stopping anti-Semitism

or any kind of racism. We need to be clear. It is the only reason for it is to suppress

Palestinian... solidarity or resistance, rather. It was a response actually to the gains Palestinians

were making in the international community being recognized. And so it immediately puts the

brakes on that because it tells other states that even recognizing Palestine, what are its

borders then? Where do you envision its borders? Because based on that definition, you could

or could not be in contradiction with this definition. Right? If you don't agree, if you see Palestine

as its 1946 borders, you would be considered genocidal by the Israeli state and by this

new definition. And so it puts the brakes on so much, not to mention, you know, questioning

the Canadian colonial regime, which is ultimately what they're protecting. Right. The imperialist

project. I mean, not to mention that, like, OK, seen as genocidal versus actively advocating

for ongoing genocide, you know. where the concern is here is clearly misplaced. I want to go

back to the story from Ottawa of the charges being dropped against Lorna Birnbaum. Fun not

so fun note. The crown in this case, Moyes Karimji, is on the list of people we know sitting on

the

General's Office of Ontario. This is the secretive committee we spoke to the breach about, who

have been very specifically tasked with monitoring the legal situation around protests involving

conflicts in the Middle East. It's very specific, the definition. It's very explicitly racist,

the definition. Their actions have been explicitly racist. We've talked about how this committee

has been encouraging and walking police through the process of increasing charges, using harsher

bail conditions, all wrapped up in Project Resolute. I will link many episodes to more deep information

into this, but you know. Now we see how this group is playing out in court on the prosecution

side, not just the policing side. And then we're seeing justices like Trevor Brown agreeing

with it and green lighting it. So the family of Haifa Abdel Khaliq are launching a petition.

They are asking people to appeal to the attorney general's office. and to reconsider the Crown's

decision to drop those charges. It's such a dangerous precedent, but one that is completely

supported with this definition being adopted. And the timing becomes even more worrying when

you think of the fact that of the 90, I think, six plus activists just in the Toronto area

alone that are facing charges under this hate working group, right? Like not directly under

them, but you know, their cases are likely being man handled by this group completely, who are

now then equipped with this new definition.

I really see this as another weapon in their toolbox to be able to then frame those arrestees

in a new light legally. You can't just imply that they're genocidal people, you know, trying

to bring down the state. It's almost like there's by definition they are. And so, you know, police

actions against them. What does that mean? I wonder what this means for our comrades in

the streets now that folks know simply chanting a chant about Palestinian liberation is enough

to excuse the violence. Yeah, it brings up questions about, you know, the fears about the vigilantism

that we're seeing, right? Like these, these groups that like the ones that we've been seeing

at UFT campuses, right? Um. It is a very dangerous president. Does that mean that they can just,

you know, go up and just bare-knuckle brawl with a large crowd of Palestinian supporters

the second they say to the river, from the river to the sea? And what other chance? Yeah. You

know, people are getting arrested for waving Hezbollah flags. I mean, that really is what

the president... would say, right? that there would be no charges then. Well then, I mean

that really is starting to look like fascism. Right? Oh, absolutely. Because also the victim

in the case that we're talking about, she reported that she felt really coerced. I mean, not to

mention the fact that she faced so much harassment and hate that she had to leave Canada and her

job. But she felt pressured to accept these charges being dropped by the crown. You know,

she, she doesn't detail what that meant, but knowing that Moyes, Karimji sits on this hate

working group and has been missioned with criminalizing Palestinian solidarity, then you really see

how fascism plays out on all its levels. It's Palestinian solidarity now, but it's entirely

designed as a means to suppress that ultimate critique of the system. Any system that they

deem so important that they would protect it this way. You know, I mean, we know the answer

to what I'm about to ask, but it would be interesting to see them argue. if a Palestinian supporter

was to punch a Zionist who was saying any of the number of hateful things that I've witnessed

at Palestinian rallies when you have the counter protesters, you know, I mean, they actively

will talk about killing children as a good thing, you know, like they will say like all kinds

of genocide, literally like, like there's no sugarcoating the genocidal wording that they

use.

What would be the legal response if they were punched in the face? You know, like legitimately.

I mean, we know that they're unlikely to fall suit, but if we're setting precedence here,

if what is seen as genocidal language and we are living through what the ICJ says is a plausible

genocide, does that mean that... people can start punching Zionist counter protesters?

No, no, because like I said, there's no legal framework to back up our feelings that it's

a genocide. Canada hasn't adopted that stance fully. The ICJ international law doesn't mean

shit. It doesn't mean shit. Even Demetri Lascaris will tell you now, right? It doesn't mean anything

to these depraved politicians. Not even the shaming of the fact that you are in contravention

of international law on genocide, not just some fucking trading law or something. It's on genocide.

And that was just it was not enough to even move them in the slightest. It might have seasoned

their statements a little, but I would argue it made them. more resolved to just distance

themselves from their obligations to the international community. So, you know, but if you're talking

to the UN too, the UN has not adopted this definition and every NGO that, you know, you can think

of Amnesty International and the list goes on in Canada, the list of organizations again

is long. that have implored politicians and even one of the authors, Stern, has backtracked.

I don't resolve him of anything, but he objects to the way that it has been weaponized against

Palestinian solidarity. So knowing our schools are going to be disseminating this and it's

going to be backed at a federal level means a lot of folks are going to have to... start

to take this into account. You know, we didn't want to have to second guess what we do, but

you know, as we see the implications unfold, it's, I hope it doesn't have a chilling effect.

I mean, it's emboldened our media. Did you see that to be even more outrageous than they normally

are? Did you see the press conference with UN special rapporteur Francesca Albanese? Yes.

What was the question? Um, so yeah, she goes on and tells everyone the scene sets the stage

in Gaza, you know, reminds everyone what's going on. And, and what was the question? Uh, about

Israel's right to exist, I believe. Yeah, do you, it was like, do you support Hamas? But

it wasn't quite that. It was, yeah, do you think Israel has the right to exist? As though those

two things were related. Um, I think, you know, that just demonstrates how it just confuses

this shit out of people, or it makes it easier for other people to confuse people on what

antisemitism actually is. or what it means to just simply advocate against genocide. Like

she wasn't up there calling for complete Palestinian liberation. I mean, not explicitly. I mean,

she does advocate for a ceasefire. And in her language, in her answer, that was purifier.

Right? You know, talking about that there are no actual legal parameters within the UN, within

the body that she represents, that give a state the right to exist. They either do or they

don't. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Like and she was saying like, you know, Italy exists. And if

Italy wanted to unite with France and become like France or something, then they would exist

and they could do that. You know, and put that there is no right to exist for any nations.

You know, nations either exists or don't exist. But what is protected is a people's right to

exist. right, a people's right to exist without, you know, genocide. It was a very good answer.

Yeah, it says a lot about our Canadian media that you can unapologetically not wearing a

mask, get up there and ask that as some sort of legitimate question to somebody who has

just described what they had described. Yeah, no, and I mean, we always say on this show,

like, fuck, we don't believe in Canada's right to exist. You know, that would make some liberals

head explode, though. Like, that's the thing. It was good that she picked Italy and France

in a way, because I think it brings the ridiculousness more than us being like, well, Canada doesn't

have the right to exist here. It's also a settler colonial state that's built on the foundation

of, you know, like. Which is true, but I think the example of Italy and France got the message

across maybe a bit more palpably than who would have if I had been the one answering it. I

still can't imagine asking somebody that when we are witnessing the opposite, like we're

witnessing the attempted erasure of Palestinian people. That is so hard to argue now. Any re-

I don't know how you can see that rubble and know the state of the hospitals and the displacement

and hear what the state of Israel has to say and not recognize they are trying to completely

erase Palestine and take it over. The West Bank is also under attack. Lebanon is under attack.

I mean, they're just a colonial state trying to do what it does. You know, they're doing

what it does. And you... Does that not call into question anyone supporting that their

right to think Palestinians have a right to exist? Do you know? Is that not such gaslighting?

It is, especially when, like, again, we mentioned there is no legal framework for a nation's

right to exist, but there is a legal framework for, you know, I don't know, right to self-defense,

for example, you know, right for Palestinians to resist. That has legal framework. They're

not as concerned about that one. Right. Like there's.

The question is so frustrating because it's like, okay, like you're ignoring all of these

rights. You're actively violating all of these rights. I would love to ask that reporter,

do you think Palestinians have the right to exist? Do you? Or force politicians who stand

up there and defend this destruction and death and ask them And with the follow-up, how is

that possible? Because they have to say yes. But I'll tell you, there's footage of Dmitri

Laskaris. He's outside of some weapons conference for Ukraine. I don't remember the name of it.

It was in Canada somewhere. I apologize. You can go to his feed and check it out. And he's

out front. They won't let him in, obviously. And he's asking the attendees, who know that

they're being filmed, who know that they're being filmed. Do Palestinian lives matter less

than Ukrainian lives? Or, you know, he'd ask it vice versa. Do Ukrainian lives matter more

than Palestinian lives? And I think he only got one person to say yes, and that was after

they kind of shook their head and laughed, like they didn't know what to say. And he follows

up, he's like, yes, no, maybe. Is this a hard question for you? Right? And most people like

were shaking their head. meaning they likely thought no, like no, they weren't worth the

same. And it was, you knew that's what they were thinking too. And I think some people

would say, no, it doesn't have the right to exist. And that is the argument to take. And

they're not the ones that are labeled genocidal and they're not the ones that are facing legislation.

And that's just because like you said, like most of actual acts of anti-Semitism, anti-semitism

come from the far right and those are completely unshacked. Like remember that time that there

was a literal Nazi in parliament and... No one will ever forget that. I mean they'll try.

They will try. But everyone references it so often it's impossible now. Like genuinely I'd

like to know how these organizations responded to that almost. Right? Like... Like, where

is the outrage here? Like, what was Siege's response to that? I'm almost curious, right?

Because like, there is all kinds of actual support that the Canadian government provides for literal

Nazis. You know, there's all kinds of literal Nazism that is brewing in Canada. Well, we've

got a list of 900 names that the Canadian government refuses to release. Remember, we had to cleanse

the monument. Folks were trying to donate money and honor Nazis for the monument for the victims

of communism. And as we know, the bulk of the victims of communism were... Sorry, the bulk

of the victims of communism were fucking Nazis. So... that just put them in a bit of a conundrum.

So they know who these Nazis are, folks that came over and had asylum here in Canada for

whether it be legal or just in reality, that's what they ended up with because they weren't

persecuted and they lived lives here. They won't share that list with us. So not only does it

exist, they know it exists, they know. the history of it and they want to hide it from us. And

the fact that the stress of this prioritization of a fight against anti-Semitism. At this time,

do you not all see how questionable this is? To tie this in with the act of Israel in this

moment? Like such a push? Like why is this being prioritized amongst all the other things, and

actual acts of anti-Palestinian racism that are happening over and over again? I mean,

we saw just the other day a Zionist. jump out of his car, leave his kid in the car running

on an overpass so he could attack the people flying a Palestinian flag on that overpass

with a sign that said it was literally just a ceasefire sign. It wasn't, you know, we got

some more fire signs out there and this was really, it was like honk for a ceasefire, something

along the lines of that. And he lost, very basic, you know, from our point of view. We do respect.

the work. It's not to shit on the sign. No, what I mean by basic is I mean like standard.

Like, very normal. Yeah, and there's no violence within it, like a ceasefire, like how you could

couch that and say that was a threat to that man. I'm sure someone somewhere will. But either

way, he jumps out. I mean, he ended up bloodied up and taken away by cops. But it's. You know,

these events are happening over and over and over again. This is an actual problem. But

it's a problem that it's being fed into by our state. I mean, that is appreciated by the state.

That fucker is doing something, the police job for them. The police would have loved to go

onto that overpass and haul those people away and smash their flags and tear down their banner.

And they couldn't. So, you know, a Zionist does it. Well, he doesn't. He didn't really get

away with anything. But, you know, this these are not isolated incidents. And it. Frankly,

it feeds into anti-Semitism to try to prioritize

that definition in this moment.

I was just thinking about like, just like racism in general right now, right? Like, like all

the racism we're seeing in Canada, like the anti-immigration racism, like, and it's like...

Just like right now. Like we have a racism problem in Canada that we need to address.

And so much of it is getting unchecked. Meanwhile, like everyone knows that this has nothing to

do with like legitimate, like we've been saying in our episode, it has nothing to do with legitimate

racism or anti-Semitism against Jewish people. It has everything to do with cracking down

on Palestinian protesters for like uplifting the state of Israel and in support of their

genocide against Palestinians. But like, we have so much brewing right now that is of genuine

concern, like the actual rise of fascism. And like at the end of the day, these efforts undermine

any of our ability to address all of the other forms of racism. Right? Like it undermines

our institution's abilities to do anything about it. Right? Where it seemed that like racism

is to be weaponized for some sort of political gain, as opposed to something that just should

be opposed universally in all circumstances. And I think that's really frustrating right

now because... It's a really bad time for us to undermine that. You know? It is. And like

when you contrast that with it's not that they're just not addressing racism. You have the liberals

like we talked about in the last episode, the last rabble rant, actively feeding into xenophobia

and racism. So then you really start to see this as white supremacy, right, of prioritizing

anti-Semitism over all the other over all the other isms, so to speak. And that's nothing

but fucking white supremacy at work. I don't care what they say. They're not white. They're

fucking white. For the most part, I know Jews are not a homogenous group, but the idea of

the Zionist state is an act of white supremacy. It's, um, it's an incredibly racist state.

Uh, obviously. Yeah, I mean, even if you don't define it as like white supremacy, it still

is a form of supremacy, you know? Like it's still oppression, genocide. I don't give a

fuck what color it has in this moment. Like it's... it's obvious that we need to oppose

it. And they're making it harder. I'm gonna round out the episode by going back to the

beginning. We talked about Ontario schools getting extra funding for anti-Semitism education.

And just to give you an idea of where we're already at, boards like the Toronto District

School Board, just fucking up royally. all over the place. I mean, they started by issuing

an apology for students attending the river run for grassy narrows. And apparently settlers

were asked to wear blue and it was all twisted and people got upset. And you know, yeah, the

school board issued an apology to parents and said they would revisit the policy of sending

kids to protests and field trips or anything kind of political in nature. And then we find

out that there's this field trip to the Shabbat on Bayview. who have been one of the sponsors

of the, I think, weekly celebrations of the IDF. I mean, these are full court press.

genocidal celebrations. They are antagonistic. They have held events that would horrify you.

And this is okay with the TDSB. And this is without, you know, deepening the relationships

that they already have. And I'll remind you that CJE also launched a campaign within the

school systems this year. that encouraged teachers and students and community members to tell

on other teachers or students who were advocating, other teachers and students who were advocating

for Palestinian solidarity. It like, can you not scream fascism any louder? Right, we're

encouraging people spying within the education system to make sure. we don't speak ill will

of a foreign state? How can you not draw the hop there, that conclusion, that at some point,

maybe someone like Pierre Poliev would think, well, if that stood up without too much pushback,

then surely people wouldn't mind if I did the same with objections to the Canadian state

and our actions as being unpec- unpatriotic, treasonous, terrorism. They already look at

indigenous land offenders as terrorists. They treat them as such. They try to define them

as such. And so this is not a stretch. This is fascism. So, you know, we try to end on

a high note sometimes for these episodes, but I'm frankly, with the adoption of this definition,

there are none. I mean, it is very McCarthy as well, right? Like... Absolutely. It's McCarthyism.

It's very 1984 to overuse the reference, you know. And it all serves to protect the same

thing, right? The imperialist, the capitalist state and its projects, right? Here it's got

a little more of a colonial flavor to it, but it doesn't really matter. Cause anybody who

does this will face this kind of opposition at some point when you become a problem. All

of this, again, is in response to gains in Palestinian solidarity. So I guess if you should see a

silver lining, it's the fact that they have to start employing these so openly brazen fascist

tactics that we can see, we can talk about and criticize that, you know, that mask is slipping

and slipping and slipping. And that is the whole point of keeping attacking them and forcing

them to up the ante, because eventually it will show just how de-legitimate they are. You know,

they're getting desperate. They're getting desperate. But it will be something for folks to have

to navigate through the legal system now. And, you know, now our fucking schools. So. And

this is after people were getting gains by, you know, having the, you know, TDSB, for example,

introduce anti-Palestinian, sorry, introduce anti-Palestinian racism as part of the curriculum,

not to perpetuate it, but to learn about it and help define it. And. It's gone the other

way. What's crazy is like, sorry, just to, you know, as part of the wrap up here, but I'm

thinking back to like when I was in school, you know, learning about world history, um,

learning about, you know, the 20th century and, you know, always thinking, you know, as, as

many people do like, oh, like how how could people ever let that happen? How could these

things ever happen? Will the world change and things like this won't ever happen again. And

just like every day, it's another thing which is like very history repeating itself. We're

seeing it happen again. It's like, oh, I guess that's how it happens. I guess it's a hell

of a lot easier for that to happen than I thought. And it's just really frustrating. And it's

kind of ironic in a way too, like when we're talking about them wanting to change what is

taught in schools, the fact that like I was taught about all of these horrible things in

school, right? Like we learned about the Holocaust. Yeah, the Holocaust and also just how like

how fascism rises, you know, how we got to the Holocaust, you know, how we got to the World

Wars, how we got- But not really, not really. Yeah. Or even like beyond that, like we even

learned like how we got to the genocide in Rwanda, you know, like we like how slavery happened,

like we learned all these things and it's like just it's like yeah, it's just every day. It's

another check on the checklist of history repeating itself in the exact same way as before Yeah,

it has a really infiel to me too, as though they've just taken the actual definition of

anti-Semitism and put it down that chute, you know, that the workers had in 1984, where it

just kind of... They rewrote history and they just took out a new piece of paper and they

just completely rewrote this definition that makes no fucking sense and actually does the

opposite of what they tell us that it'll do. And they all adopt it like that's perfectly

fucking normal. And this is what it's always been. And it would be crazy to question it.

Um, you know, the parallels, you could just keep going. And that's the thing, right? Like,

like having been well read through all of these things and reading all of these dystopian novels

and all these things is like, you're like, I used to look at dystopia as a genre where it's

like, okay, well we're exaggerating things to reflect things about our society right now,

like kind of. You know, like... No. But every day it's like, no, actually dystopia doesn't

exaggerate shit. It's just a warning, you know? They are predictive texts. Like... and like,

it's not new. Everyone lives through this in history. You know, history does kind of have

that cyclical nature to it, but it's just, you know, I feel like we're in a Greek tragedy

or something, you know? Like, it's... It feels very... Yeah, just what the fuck? What do we

do? What lessons can we learn from the past to allow this not to happen again? Because

like they didn't stop at that time. So what do we do this time? You know, well, let's hope

we've sounded the alarm or sorry, let's hope we've sounded the alarm a lot sooner. And because

not only do we learn from revolutions, but hopefully bouts of fascism and the rise of. authoritarianism

and all of these other things, we kind of can see them for what they are. But you know, it's

not like we haven't been sounding the alarm for some time now. But you know what? No, I

think the mask is really, really slipping. I mean, even, I know this is totally unrelated,

but even, you know, there's this squirrel. There's a squirrel that like the state took from some

guy in the states and they euthanized this pet squirrel and the outrage that people felt.

I mean, they mobilize so much so that all of the buildings that this institution, I don't

know, animal services or whatever the county services that it was, had to shut right across

the county or right across the state because they had a bomb threats and all these threats

because they had taken this man squirrel and killed it. And it's like, how long can the

state behave in such a violent and oppressive way that people don't all start looking around

at each other going, none of these fuckers are looking out for us. No, no. That's too much.

How easy it is to manipulate that feeling. And point it the wrong way. It'll be like, none

of these fuckers are looking out for us. But Trump is, you know? Yeah. Oh,

yeah. Or like or Poliev, like how many people are like none of these fuckers are looking

out to us. But you know who is the career politician who has been in politics his whole life in

the house? You know, like that guy is looking out for us, right? And it just I mean, for

fuck's sakes, we're talking about Orwell. You know who else is a fan of Orwell? Apparently

Elon Musk You know like he posts about all the like references to 1984 and I'm like is there

anything that can't be twisted Is there nothing like it's not a secret? But that's the point

right is that like that's the great fucking irony of it like I mean George Orwell was a

socialist You know, and yet you mean also that means a Nazi, right? Like isn't that isn't

how they twist it? That doesn't mean shit to the political. That's the thing, right? Is

that like they somehow manage to like twist everything like any like that's a problem of

hoping that like people will have these enlightened realizations. All of it can be twisted. That's

the lesson. Everything can be twisted. It really is difficult. And human psychology is a difficult

thing. And it's... And people's angers, like... Strong emotions are easy to twist. Right? Like...

It's all... There's no easy path here. You know, there's no... Like, we can't just hope... I

mean, maybe it's a message for, like, against accelerationism here for a second, but you

know, like, a lot of people sit around and say stuff like, you know, capitalism will eventually

destroy itself. I mean, sure it will. But that doesn't mean that people will just awaken to...

That it was wrong, you know? Like, fascism is waiting. For fuck sakes. I mean, also random,

no? It was like 22 degrees on November 5th yesterday. What the fuck? Well, we're not waiting. That's

why people should just share our podcasts with everyone. We are trying our fucking darndest

to like scream from the rooftops, you know? No war, but class war. They just, you know,

we need to expand our reach, that's all. That is a wrap on another episode of Blueprints

of Disruption. Thank you for joining us. Also, a very big thank you to the producer of our

show, Santiago Julio Quintero. Blueprints of Disruption is an independent production operated

cooperatively. You can follow us on Twitter at BPofDisruption. If you'd like to help us

continue disrupting the status quo, please share our content and if you have the means, consider

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next time, keep disrupting.