1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:14,897 Host: We're here today once again, actually, with best 2 00:00:15,207 --> 00:00:31,346 selling author, professor and leadership expert Ryan 3 00:00:31,657 --> 00:00:42,520 Gottfredson, Ryan, good to see you. 4 00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:45,073 Ryan Gottfredson: Yeah, great to be back on. I was looking at the 5 00:00:45,127 --> 00:00:48,550 notes and my notes, and I think the last time I was on was over 6 00:00:48,605 --> 00:00:49,420 five years ago. 7 00:00:49,420 --> 00:00:53,715 Host: Yes. So episode 317 back in January of 2020. Is what we 8 00:00:53,793 --> 00:00:58,322 last had you on. And boy, did things change abruptly right 9 00:00:58,400 --> 00:00:59,260 after that. 10 00:00:59,260 --> 00:01:01,620 Ryan Gottfredson: Yeah. So that was January, and fast forward a 11 00:01:01,620 --> 00:01:05,820 couple months, and I was with my publisher in Nashville for my 12 00:01:05,820 --> 00:01:10,860 first book, success mindsets in March, and we're there second 13 00:01:10,860 --> 00:01:13,500 week of March. I think it was like a Wednesday, Thursday, 14 00:01:13,500 --> 00:01:17,100 Friday. We're doing this red carpet event. I get an email, 15 00:01:17,220 --> 00:01:21,440 you know, essentially, schools are shutting down, and I'm in 16 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,260 Nashville, I'm thinking, oh my goodness, what is happening? Am 17 00:01:24,260 --> 00:01:26,720 I even going to get a flight back home? And that was the 18 00:01:26,720 --> 00:01:31,700 weekend that, of course, the world essentially shut down. And 19 00:01:31,700 --> 00:01:35,660 then fast forward, two months later, is when my book actually 20 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:39,860 hit the shelves. And so it was, in some ways, I think there were 21 00:01:39,860 --> 00:01:42,640 some good things with that, with the book coming out of that time 22 00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:46,180 and other things, it just made things really difficult. So I 23 00:01:46,180 --> 00:01:48,520 think in some ways it was good because a lot of people were 24 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,520 maybe spending a little bit more time reading. But on the other 25 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:53,980 hand, is I do a lot of consulting work with 26 00:01:53,980 --> 00:01:57,280 organizations, and that completely shut down. So I think 27 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,440 there were some good things and that helped it hit the Wall 28 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:03,000 Street Journal and USA Today bestseller list. But then my 29 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,520 business slowed down for a little bit, like many others 30 00:02:05,520 --> 00:02:09,000 did. But that's okay, it picked back up. And you know, we are 31 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,760 where we are now, which is a different type of crazy. 32 00:02:12,060 --> 00:02:14,792 Host: Just a little refresher for our audience, we talk a lot 33 00:02:14,842 --> 00:02:17,823 on the Action Catalyst, about growth mindset, fixed mindset, 34 00:02:17,873 --> 00:02:20,953 about mindset general for you, there's actually four. It's not 35 00:02:21,003 --> 00:02:23,686 growth and fixed. Do you mind just kind of walking our 36 00:02:23,736 --> 00:02:26,667 audience through that just as part of our table setting for 37 00:02:26,717 --> 00:02:27,860 the conversation today? 38 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,260 Ryan Gottfredson: One of the things that I've learned is 39 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:35,240 mindsets is a term that is thrown out, I feel like rather 40 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,440 loosely, right? A lot of people talk about maybe leader mindset 41 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,540 or entrepreneurial mindset, and oftentimes, when people talk 42 00:02:43,540 --> 00:02:47,500 about mindsets, they talk about mindsets as our attitude towards 43 00:02:47,500 --> 00:02:51,700 something. But actually at a scientific level, even a 44 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:55,300 neuroscientific level, our mindsets are much deeper than 45 00:02:55,300 --> 00:02:58,240 our attitude towards something. They're actually the mental 46 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:01,560 lenses that we wear that shape how we view the world around us. 47 00:03:01,740 --> 00:03:05,460 And so what that means is our mindsets are the part of 48 00:03:05,460 --> 00:03:09,420 ourselves that automatically interprets information in 49 00:03:09,420 --> 00:03:13,740 certain ways. So for example, this is what explains why some 50 00:03:13,740 --> 00:03:18,420 people can see failure as something to avoid, but other 51 00:03:18,420 --> 00:03:21,260 people see failure as an opportunity to learn and grow 52 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:25,100 and in our mindsets, they really are the most foundational part 53 00:03:25,100 --> 00:03:29,300 of who we are. And for most of us, we're not conscious of our 54 00:03:29,300 --> 00:03:34,100 mindsets, nor do we know the quality of our mindsets. So the 55 00:03:34,100 --> 00:03:38,420 quality of our mindsets exist along along a continuum from 56 00:03:38,420 --> 00:03:43,540 being more wired for self protection to be more wired for 57 00:03:43,540 --> 00:03:48,220 value creation and whether we have a self protective mindset 58 00:03:48,460 --> 00:03:54,340 or a value creating mindset, both feel right to us, but one 59 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:58,240 helps us stay safe in the short term, but holds us back in the 60 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:01,260 long term. That's the self protective mindset and the value 61 00:04:01,260 --> 00:04:04,980 creating mindsets allow us to step into short term discomfort 62 00:04:05,040 --> 00:04:09,120 for long term value creation. So I coach my son's basketball 63 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:13,440 team. My son is 10 years old. That means that he and his 64 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:17,340 teammates are not very good, so it's my job as a coach to help 65 00:04:17,340 --> 00:04:20,660 them to develop. And so one of the things that I'm trying to 66 00:04:20,660 --> 00:04:24,560 help them develop at this age is, is they're all right handed, 67 00:04:24,740 --> 00:04:27,560 and I want to help them learn how to shoot a layup with their 68 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,460 left hand when they're on the left side of the hoop. So this 69 00:04:31,460 --> 00:04:34,820 is a pretty important skill for a basketball player, and so I'll 70 00:04:34,820 --> 00:04:37,220 instruct them. When we do, we call them lay up lines. They 71 00:04:37,220 --> 00:04:39,440 land up on the left side, and they take turns to shoot a 72 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:42,520 layup. And I'll ask them, all, right, try to shoot this with 73 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:46,600 your left hand. And I get three different responses. The first 74 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:49,480 response that I get is I get some players that don't even try 75 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:52,360 to shoot with their left hand. Well, why wouldn't they try to 76 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:56,080 shoot with their left hand? Well, it feels uncomfortable. 77 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:58,960 They're going to look awkward, and they're probably going to 78 00:04:58,960 --> 00:05:02,220 miss their shot. You. So there's some justifiable reasons for 79 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:06,120 them to not try that. The second response that I get is I get 80 00:05:06,120 --> 00:05:09,180 some players that are willing to try and practice, but they're 81 00:05:09,180 --> 00:05:12,840 not willing to try in games. Well, why aren't we willing to 82 00:05:12,840 --> 00:05:17,160 try in games? Well, it's because now my my parents are recording 83 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,980 me for the rest of posterity to see, right? And of course, I 84 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,940 don't want to let my team down. I want to win the game. There's 85 00:05:22,940 --> 00:05:26,720 a lot more pressure in that moment. So that's the second 86 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,480 response that I get. But then the third response that again, I 87 00:05:29,480 --> 00:05:31,880 only have a couple of players that are willing to do this, but 88 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,600 they're willing to try in practice and in the games. Well, 89 00:05:35,600 --> 00:05:38,420 why are they willing to do this? Well, they're they've developed 90 00:05:38,420 --> 00:05:43,120 this capacity to be able to feel uncomfortable, look 91 00:05:43,120 --> 00:05:45,940 uncomfortable, and miss the shot, which may even mean 92 00:05:45,940 --> 00:05:50,500 letting their team down in that moment or even in that game. But 93 00:05:50,500 --> 00:05:54,880 for what benefit, it's because they will actually improve their 94 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,760 development of that skill so that they could be a greater 95 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,620 value creator for themselves and for their future teams down the 96 00:06:01,620 --> 00:06:06,060 road. So there's some responses that are more self protective in 97 00:06:06,060 --> 00:06:09,540 that moment, and others that are more value creating meaning. 98 00:06:09,540 --> 00:06:12,540 They're willing to step into discomfort in that moment to 99 00:06:12,540 --> 00:06:16,740 become a better value creator over the long term. Are these 100 00:06:16,740 --> 00:06:20,900 responses by my players? Are they intentional, thought out 101 00:06:20,900 --> 00:06:24,920 responses, or instinctual knee jerk reactions, and that's the 102 00:06:24,920 --> 00:06:28,820 role that our mindsets play. Right? It's our it's my players 103 00:06:28,820 --> 00:06:32,420 mindsets that are dictating when I invite them, do they move 104 00:06:32,420 --> 00:06:35,000 towards self protection, or do they move towards value 105 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,180 creation? And that's the mindsets. And if, then, if I 106 00:06:38,180 --> 00:06:43,360 also ask these players, do you have good mindsets? I think that 107 00:06:43,420 --> 00:06:47,500 all of them say yes, because they could justify it. Well, one 108 00:06:47,500 --> 00:06:50,140 the one that's more self protective, well, it helps me 109 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,900 feel more safe and more comfortable in that moment, and 110 00:06:52,900 --> 00:06:55,600 the one that has the more value creating mindset is, oh yeah, 111 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,640 I've got a better mindset, because it's gonna help me 112 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,900 become a better basketball player for the future, right? So 113 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:06,780 that's the inherent challenge that we as people face, is we 114 00:07:06,840 --> 00:07:10,080 generally think that our mindsets are good, but we 115 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:13,440 generally don't know the quality of our mindsets. And so the 116 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:16,020 reason why I bring this up is it's really helpful to have a 117 00:07:16,020 --> 00:07:20,540 mindset framework to help us to start to investigate the true 118 00:07:20,540 --> 00:07:23,720 quality of our mindsets, and that's what I put together. Is 119 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:27,080 what you said, is these four different sets of mindsets. 120 00:07:27,080 --> 00:07:30,408 Host: If they're something that's so foundational to us and 121 00:07:30,471 --> 00:07:33,988 kind of ingrained and shape the way we approach and view 122 00:07:34,051 --> 00:07:37,820 everything else, how can we influence or adjust our mindset? 123 00:07:38,300 --> 00:07:41,200 Ryan Gottfredson: Yeah, great question, and it all starts with 124 00:07:41,260 --> 00:07:44,500 awareness, and that's where the framework is so powerful, 125 00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:48,880 because if I don't have labels for mindsets, if I don't have 126 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:52,420 descriptions for mindsets, then I can never investigate them. 127 00:07:52,420 --> 00:07:55,120 They're going to continue to reside below the level of my 128 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:58,420 consciousness. But if I could put labels on it and 129 00:07:58,420 --> 00:08:02,640 descriptions now I could start to develop greater level of 130 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:06,420 consciousness about my mindsets, and that's been part of my 131 00:08:06,420 --> 00:08:09,060 personal journey. Is when I first learned about these 132 00:08:09,060 --> 00:08:13,440 different sets of mindsets, I quickly learned that I had self 133 00:08:13,440 --> 00:08:17,460 protective mindsets, which is normal. Most of us have self 134 00:08:17,460 --> 00:08:21,500 protective mindsets, and I just didn't know what better mindsets 135 00:08:21,500 --> 00:08:24,800 to have. So the first thing I needed to do is to deepen my 136 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:27,920 awareness, and then once I deepen my awareness, then I 137 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:31,220 could come up with plans and strategies and interventions to 138 00:08:31,220 --> 00:08:33,320 be able to elevate my mindset. 139 00:08:33,680 --> 00:08:36,920 Host: Shifting from mindset to growth. The science really 140 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,600 points to there being two main types of growth, those 141 00:08:40,660 --> 00:08:44,260 incremental, transformational I think people think they know 142 00:08:44,260 --> 00:08:47,140 what each of those means. But could you define those for us? 143 00:08:47,860 --> 00:08:50,620 Ryan Gottfredson: Yeah, for sure. And it's really helpful 144 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,760 for us to understand that there's two different sides of 145 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:57,880 ourselves. So I'm going to give you some characters that you 146 00:08:57,880 --> 00:09:00,900 probably recognize who they are, and I want you to tell me what 147 00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:04,680 you think they have in common? Michael Jackson, Tiger Woods, 148 00:09:05,100 --> 00:09:09,780 Ellen DeGeneres, uh, Bill Clinton, Gordon, Ramsay Shia, 149 00:09:09,780 --> 00:09:12,960 LaBeouf. What do they have in common? They got multiple things 150 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:16,680 in common. I think so. I think most simply, they're all famous 151 00:09:16,680 --> 00:09:19,860 and well known. They have all been incredibly successful 152 00:09:19,860 --> 00:09:22,820 within their within their industry. I mean that they may 153 00:09:22,820 --> 00:09:25,820 be at the peak. I mean, we've got the king of pop in there for 154 00:09:25,820 --> 00:09:29,000 goodness sakes, right? So, so all incredibly successful 155 00:09:29,060 --> 00:09:32,060 people. But the other thing that they have in common is they all 156 00:09:32,060 --> 00:09:35,600 have some controversy. And so the reason why I've kind of 157 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,420 cherry picked these examples is to demonstrate this idea that we 158 00:09:38,420 --> 00:09:41,440 have two different sides of ourselves. One side of ourselves 159 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:44,920 is what I call our doing side. It's our talent, our knowledge, 160 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:48,640 our skills and our abilities. And all of these individuals are 161 00:09:48,640 --> 00:09:51,880 incredibly talented, knowledgeable and skillful 162 00:09:51,940 --> 00:09:54,700 individuals, and it's their talent, knowledge and skills 163 00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:57,940 that has allowed them to reach the success that they've 164 00:09:57,940 --> 00:10:01,140 experienced, or at least their popularity. Priority. But then 165 00:10:01,260 --> 00:10:04,920 their controversy doesn't really have anything to do with their 166 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,160 talent, knowledge, skills and abilities. Their controversy has 167 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,680 to do with a different side of themselves, and that's what I 168 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:15,300 call our being side. And our being side is the quality of our 169 00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:19,320 character, our mindsets, our psyche, the quality of our 170 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:24,020 emotional regulation abilities. I call it as a whole our 171 00:10:24,020 --> 00:10:28,520 internal operating system, how our bodies are wired to operate. 172 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:31,760 So each of these individuals were incredibly talented, 173 00:10:31,760 --> 00:10:35,780 knowledgeable and skillful, but they lack some emotional 174 00:10:35,780 --> 00:10:40,160 regulation abilities that caused them to misstep at different 175 00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:43,720 points of time in their life and and so the reason why I bring 176 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,300 this up is coming back to your question is there's a difference 177 00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:49,960 between incremental growth and transformational growth. And 178 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:54,400 what I've learned is that when we improve along our doing side, 179 00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:59,380 it is helpful, but I find that it is only incrementally 180 00:10:59,440 --> 00:11:04,080 helpful, and if we really want to transformationally grow and 181 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:08,700 improve, we've got to focus on our being side. We've got to 182 00:11:08,700 --> 00:11:11,460 we've actually got to focus on our internal operating system, 183 00:11:11,460 --> 00:11:14,880 our mindsets, our emotional regulation abilities, and when 184 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:19,380 we could elevate along our being side, we transformationally 185 00:11:19,380 --> 00:11:23,660 become better people and better leaders. And what's interesting 186 00:11:23,660 --> 00:11:27,200 about this is that when we think about development efforts in 187 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,860 general, is almost all development efforts focus on our 188 00:11:30,860 --> 00:11:34,040 doing side. Think about our education systems, our athletic 189 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,100 programs and our organizational development efforts, they almost 190 00:11:37,100 --> 00:11:40,780 all focus on gaining knowledge and skills. Yet it's only 191 00:11:40,780 --> 00:11:45,640 incrementally helpful. And so my new book, becoming better is all 192 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:49,720 about helping people learn that they have a being side, learn 193 00:11:49,720 --> 00:11:52,960 what it is, help them connect with it and evaluate their 194 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,320 altitude along their being side. And then how do they elevate 195 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,260 along their being side, so that they can transformationally 196 00:11:59,260 --> 00:12:00,100 become better 197 00:12:00,100 --> 00:12:04,353 Host: When it comes to the doing side, most of the time, we know 198 00:12:04,426 --> 00:12:08,973 what we don't know, right? We know what we need to improve on, 199 00:12:09,046 --> 00:12:13,006 what we need to do to get better. How do we assess our 200 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,380 being side so we know where to go from there? 201 00:12:16,380 --> 00:12:18,986 Ryan Gottfredson: Yeah, and what's interesting, and there's 202 00:12:19,049 --> 00:12:22,990 a variety of different ways that we can do this, right? So I'm 203 00:12:23,054 --> 00:12:26,486 going to step into a few different ways. One way is to 204 00:12:26,550 --> 00:12:29,664 look at our mindsets. Our mindsets are intimately 205 00:12:29,728 --> 00:12:33,733 connected to this, to our being side, because they're about how 206 00:12:33,796 --> 00:12:37,610 our bodies are wired to operate more self protective or more 207 00:12:37,674 --> 00:12:40,979 value creating. So if you're listening to this, I've 208 00:12:41,042 --> 00:12:44,538 developed a mindset assessment on my website called the 209 00:12:44,602 --> 00:12:48,289 personal mindset assessment. It's free. Anybody could take 210 00:12:48,352 --> 00:12:52,039 it, and it will help them to evaluate the quality of their 211 00:12:52,103 --> 00:12:55,662 mindset. So that's a helpful tool, but not everybody has 212 00:12:55,726 --> 00:12:59,603 access to that. I mean, it's free. Now you've heard about it, 213 00:12:59,667 --> 00:13:03,608 but not everybody knows about it. But beyond that, another way 214 00:13:03,671 --> 00:13:07,358 to kind of gage This is window of tolerance. The window of 215 00:13:07,422 --> 00:13:11,363 tolerance was popularized by a psychologist called his name is 216 00:13:11,426 --> 00:13:15,367 Daniel Siegel. He's written a great book called Mindsight, and 217 00:13:15,431 --> 00:13:18,800 he dives into this concept there, as well as in other 218 00:13:18,863 --> 00:13:22,550 places. But window of tolerance is effectively, how easily 219 00:13:22,613 --> 00:13:26,682 triggered are we to difference, to stress, pressure, complexity, 220 00:13:26,745 --> 00:13:30,368 uncertainty, etc. So we have a window that when, when the 221 00:13:30,432 --> 00:13:34,309 stress is low in our lives. It's a it's a window in which our 222 00:13:34,373 --> 00:13:37,932 body's nervous system is regulated. And so when you know 223 00:13:37,996 --> 00:13:41,683 when challenges come our way, when we're in this regulated 224 00:13:41,746 --> 00:13:45,497 state, we can navigate those challenges rather effectively. 225 00:13:45,560 --> 00:13:49,056 We are in cognitive and emotional control, but the more 226 00:13:49,120 --> 00:13:53,188 stress that we experience, or if you're anything like me, if you 227 00:13:53,251 --> 00:13:57,065 get hangry, then you kind of sense that you're moving closer 228 00:13:57,129 --> 00:14:00,943 to the edge of your window of tolerance, where you're losing 229 00:14:01,006 --> 00:14:05,074 cognitive and emotional control. And there's even times where we 230 00:14:05,138 --> 00:14:09,079 get we'll call it triggered, and we actually go outside of our 231 00:14:09,142 --> 00:14:12,956 window of tolerance, and we've lost almost all cognitive and 232 00:14:13,020 --> 00:14:16,834 emotional control. And so when we when we move closer to the 233 00:14:16,897 --> 00:14:20,775 edge of our window of tolerance, or even beyond it, we become 234 00:14:20,838 --> 00:14:24,716 more reactive, as opposed to intentionally responsive. So one 235 00:14:24,779 --> 00:14:28,402 of the things that we need to recognize is all of us, the 236 00:14:28,466 --> 00:14:32,343 width of our window of tolerance differs just as we differ in 237 00:14:32,407 --> 00:14:36,157 height or weight. And so the wider our window of tolerance, 238 00:14:36,221 --> 00:14:40,225 our greater capacity to stay in cognitive and emotional control 239 00:14:40,289 --> 00:14:44,166 across difficult situations. And our window tolerance is also 240 00:14:44,230 --> 00:14:48,044 something that we could widen. We can expand. In fact, as we 241 00:14:48,107 --> 00:14:51,921 elevate along our being side, that's what happens. So people 242 00:14:51,985 --> 00:14:55,989 with a wider window of tolerance are at a higher altitude along 243 00:14:56,053 --> 00:14:59,867 their being side. People with a narrower window of tolerance 244 00:14:59,930 --> 00:15:03,808 more reactive individuals, for example, then they're going to 245 00:15:03,871 --> 00:15:07,431 be low. That's a. Find that they're lower on their being 246 00:15:07,494 --> 00:15:11,181 side. So that's another, I think, a helpful way to kind of 247 00:15:11,245 --> 00:15:14,614 gage our altitude along that being side. The field of 248 00:15:14,677 --> 00:15:18,745 developmental psychology is the field that has actually done the 249 00:15:18,809 --> 00:15:22,241 most research along our being side. Now, developmental 250 00:15:22,305 --> 00:15:26,119 psychology has historically focused on child development. We 251 00:15:26,182 --> 00:15:30,060 know that children go through different developmental stages. 252 00:15:30,123 --> 00:15:33,619 They go from infancy to adulthood, but a narrow kind of 253 00:15:33,683 --> 00:15:37,115 area of focus for developmental psychologists is adult 254 00:15:37,179 --> 00:15:40,993 development, and what they've found is that just as children 255 00:15:41,056 --> 00:15:44,997 go through different development stages, adults can go through 256 00:15:45,061 --> 00:15:48,875 different adult development stages. In fact, what they found 257 00:15:48,938 --> 00:15:52,561 is that there's three primary adult development stages or 258 00:15:52,625 --> 00:15:56,566 levels. And what's interesting about this is that while adults 259 00:15:56,629 --> 00:16:00,189 can develop what they've found is that most adults don't 260 00:16:00,253 --> 00:16:04,321 develop in adulthood along their being side. So if there's three 261 00:16:04,384 --> 00:16:08,071 levels along our being side, let's just call them for now, 262 00:16:08,135 --> 00:16:12,076 level one, level two, level 360. 4% of adults operate in level 263 00:16:12,139 --> 00:16:16,207 one and never get to level 230, 5% get to level two, and only 1% 264 00:16:16,271 --> 00:16:20,339 gets to level three. So there's not many that operate there. And 265 00:16:20,402 --> 00:16:23,835 so one of the things that I've learned as I've kind of 266 00:16:23,898 --> 00:16:27,967 understand this, is the reality is, is that most of us, and most 267 00:16:28,030 --> 00:16:31,526 of the people that we know, operate at this base level, 268 00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:34,704 which is a rather self protective way to operate, 269 00:16:34,768 --> 00:16:38,518 right? So for example, if I were to say to you, how do most 270 00:16:38,582 --> 00:16:42,523 people respond to constructive criticism? Criticism, you would 271 00:16:42,586 --> 00:16:46,337 say they get defensive, right? And that's a self protective 272 00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:49,833 strategy in that moment, but it's one that probably is 273 00:16:49,896 --> 00:16:53,519 something that holds them back from learning, growing and 274 00:16:53,583 --> 00:16:57,397 developing. So that's a self protective reaction, as opposed 275 00:16:57,460 --> 00:17:01,211 to a value creating response. So most of us and most of the 276 00:17:01,274 --> 00:17:04,897 people we associate with, are people that operate at this 277 00:17:04,961 --> 00:17:09,029 lower being side level. So this kind of becomes the norm, but it 278 00:17:09,093 --> 00:17:12,589 doesn't necessarily mean that it's very cognitively and 279 00:17:12,652 --> 00:17:16,275 emotionally sophisticated. And so when we understand this 280 00:17:16,339 --> 00:17:20,343 framework, that's another way to gage it. And in fact, I've got 281 00:17:20,407 --> 00:17:24,221 another free assessment on my website that will allow you to 282 00:17:24,284 --> 00:17:28,162 kind of gage what level you tend to operate at. It's called a 283 00:17:28,225 --> 00:17:30,260 vertical development assessment. 284 00:17:30,260 --> 00:17:34,024 Host: Very literally, once we've assessed that, once we know 285 00:17:34,094 --> 00:17:37,580 where we're at, what is this trick to leveling up? 286 00:17:38,180 --> 00:17:40,660 Ryan Gottfredson: Yeah, at its core, what we've got to 287 00:17:40,660 --> 00:17:45,460 recognize is, is our being side is connected to our internal 288 00:17:45,460 --> 00:17:49,480 operating system, which really is our nervous system. So we've 289 00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:54,700 got to engage in efforts to better regulate and upgrade our 290 00:17:54,700 --> 00:17:57,820 body's nervous system. And I think that there's three 291 00:17:57,820 --> 00:18:01,500 different levels that we could think about doing work on our 292 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:04,200 nervous system. So I'm going to say that there's surface level 293 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,920 approaches, there's deeper level approaches, and there's deepest 294 00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:12,060 level approaches. So at the surface level are things that I 295 00:18:12,060 --> 00:18:15,000 think are fairly common and they're being increasingly 296 00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:19,620 promoted. These are things like meditation, uh, journaling, 297 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:24,440 gratitude journaling, engaging in self talk, doing like we see, 298 00:18:24,440 --> 00:18:28,700 cold plunges. These are all actually activities that help us 299 00:18:28,700 --> 00:18:32,600 better regulate our body's nervous system. And so I think 300 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,500 that there's surface level in that they holistically help us 301 00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:39,860 better regulate ourselves to get into the deeper level. I think 302 00:18:39,860 --> 00:18:43,900 that's where mindsets reside, if, because, again, most people 303 00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:46,120 aren't conscious of our mindsets, and so if we could 304 00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:49,540 help them to become conscious of our mindsets, we are getting 305 00:18:49,540 --> 00:18:54,340 directly at one of the primary jobs of our internal operating 306 00:18:54,340 --> 00:18:58,720 system, which is how our body makes meaning of our world. And 307 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,560 if we can awaken to how we make meaning of our world, or how 308 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,620 we're prone to make meaning of our world, then we could do the 309 00:19:04,620 --> 00:19:08,040 work of adjusting and improving how we make meaning of our 310 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,340 world. So for me, and that's where this is the space that I 311 00:19:11,340 --> 00:19:14,820 primarily play, in terms of the coaching and the consulting that 312 00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:19,440 I do, is I help do some of this deeper level ver it's called 313 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,940 vertical development work, as opposed to horizontal 314 00:19:22,940 --> 00:19:26,120 development work. So that's a deeper the deeper level 315 00:19:26,180 --> 00:19:30,560 strategy. At the deepest level, this is where we find things 316 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:36,140 like therapy, like psychological therapy, trauma healing therapy, 317 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:40,840 and even if people have neuro divergence, then we like ADHD, 318 00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:44,080 for example, is something that impacts our being side that 319 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:48,700 there's what's called neuro feedback therapy, and that could 320 00:19:48,700 --> 00:19:52,420 help us, help us rewire our brain. And then one of the 321 00:19:52,420 --> 00:19:56,320 things that I've kind of got my ear to the ground on is some of 322 00:19:56,320 --> 00:19:59,320 the latest research coming out with psychedelic assisted 323 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:02,640 therapy. So all of the initial research that seems to be coming 324 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:06,420 out now is suggesting that it's one of the most effective ways 325 00:20:06,420 --> 00:20:12,480 of rewiring our body's nervous system. And so those are I don't 326 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:15,180 play at that level, because I don't have the training for 327 00:20:15,180 --> 00:20:19,440 either any of those things, but I've participated, for example, 328 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:24,140 in trauma healing therapy that's been a part of my own personal 329 00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:29,300 development journey. And I would say, I'm currently not engaging 330 00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:32,180 with my therapist, but I started that process that's about four 331 00:20:32,180 --> 00:20:36,260 years ago, and I spent two years working with a trauma therapist 332 00:20:36,260 --> 00:20:40,540 to heal from some stuff in my past, right? So, and I would say 333 00:20:40,540 --> 00:20:43,960 five years ago, when I was on the podcast, if you would have 334 00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:47,380 asked me if I had trauma in my past, I would have said no, I 335 00:20:47,380 --> 00:20:50,740 had great parents. They stayed married, they went to every 336 00:20:50,740 --> 00:20:54,100 basketball game I ever played. But what I've come to realize is 337 00:20:54,100 --> 00:20:57,040 that while my parents were always there for me physically, 338 00:20:57,460 --> 00:21:01,320 they were rarely there for me emotionally. So I've got some 339 00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:05,700 emotional neglect in my background, and I didn't know 340 00:21:05,700 --> 00:21:09,360 that five years ago, and I've come to awaken to that and 341 00:21:09,360 --> 00:21:13,560 engage with the trauma therapist to help me kind of heal my body 342 00:21:13,740 --> 00:21:17,880 from that experience. I guess one of the things that I've 343 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:23,180 learned is how we are wired to survive our childhood is not the 344 00:21:23,180 --> 00:21:26,120 wiring that we need to be successful as adults and as 345 00:21:26,120 --> 00:21:29,180 leaders. And that's ultimately what we're talking about, is, 346 00:21:29,180 --> 00:21:32,540 how do we rewire ourselves? And what I've learned just engaging 347 00:21:32,540 --> 00:21:36,140 in this deepest level strategy of engaging with a trauma 348 00:21:36,140 --> 00:21:40,720 therapist is doing that healing work has done. I have, I have 349 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:44,860 grown and developed more as a person in that two years than I 350 00:21:44,860 --> 00:21:48,820 had the prior 16 years of my adult life. And I think at the 351 00:21:48,820 --> 00:21:52,480 end of the day, that's why doing you know, coming on this 352 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,200 podcast, sharing these ideas, is meaningful to me, because at the 353 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,680 end of the day, if we want to elevate along our being side at 354 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:04,200 a foundational level, it's about healing our minds, our bodies 355 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:07,860 and our hearts. And if we want to become transformationally 356 00:22:07,860 --> 00:22:14,100 better, that's what it requires. It requires healing. And I've 357 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:17,340 just come to learn that most of us need some healing. 358 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,592 Host: The first time you joined the program, we discussed your 359 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:22,598 book, which was just about to release, Success Mindsets. We've 360 00:22:22,646 --> 00:22:25,366 touched today on a lot of the material that's in Becoming 361 00:22:25,414 --> 00:22:28,325 Better your latest book, but in the meantime, you've also put 362 00:22:28,373 --> 00:22:31,141 out another great book, The Elevated Leader. We don't want 363 00:22:31,188 --> 00:22:32,000 to overlook that. 364 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,375 Ryan Gottfredson: For sure. And thank you for bringing it up. 365 00:22:34,429 --> 00:22:37,669 And in fact, we have talked about it. So when I talked about 366 00:22:37,723 --> 00:22:40,908 those three adult development levels, level one, level two, 367 00:22:40,962 --> 00:22:44,094 level three, that's what the elevated leader is all about, 368 00:22:44,148 --> 00:22:47,225 getting to know those three levels and allowing us to use 369 00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:50,519 that framework to introspect about the at the time, I wasn't 370 00:22:50,573 --> 00:22:53,812 calling it this, but the I was calling it the quality of our 371 00:22:53,866 --> 00:22:57,160 internal operating system. But now the terminology we've used 372 00:22:57,214 --> 00:22:59,860 here is that plus elevating along our being side. 373 00:22:59,860 --> 00:23:03,380 Host: You mentioned a number of assessments available on your 374 00:23:03,444 --> 00:23:07,540 website today that people can go and start taking action on what 375 00:23:07,604 --> 00:23:11,636 they've heard about today, lay that website on us one more time 376 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:15,348 and talk about what some of those assessments are and any 377 00:23:15,412 --> 00:23:16,500 other free tools. 378 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,092 Ryan Gottfredson: For sure. So there's the two on my website. 379 00:23:19,153 --> 00:23:22,288 RyanGottfredson.com, there's a free personal mindset 380 00:23:22,349 --> 00:23:25,846 assessment, a free vertical development assessment, again, 381 00:23:25,906 --> 00:23:29,524 both of those are help us to awaken to the quality along our 382 00:23:29,585 --> 00:23:33,022 being side. And then, if you wanted to do deeper work for 383 00:23:33,082 --> 00:23:36,640 yourself, you know, I help, I do engage in coaching to help 384 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:40,559 people to upgrade themselves. Or when I work with organizations, 385 00:23:40,619 --> 00:23:44,418 what I'll generally do is I'll have groups or teams or even the 386 00:23:44,479 --> 00:23:48,157 entire organization, take these assessments, and then I could 387 00:23:48,217 --> 00:23:51,956 aggregate those results up to a collective level, and we could 388 00:23:52,016 --> 00:23:55,755 look at the collective mindsets of an organization, of a group 389 00:23:55,815 --> 00:23:59,614 of leaders or of a team. So if anybody wants to do some of that 390 00:23:59,674 --> 00:24:03,352 deeper work beyond just taking a couple of assessments, would 391 00:24:03,413 --> 00:24:06,609 love to have some conversations with folks. What I've 392 00:24:06,669 --> 00:24:10,468 experienced, because I've worked with hundreds of organizations 393 00:24:10,528 --> 00:24:13,965 and 1000s of leaders, is for every group that I've worked 394 00:24:14,025 --> 00:24:17,643 with, this is an incredibly eye opening experience and which 395 00:24:17,704 --> 00:24:21,261 allows for transformation to occur. And I just feel blessed 396 00:24:21,322 --> 00:24:25,181 to kind of be playing in a, in a spot, and in a in a place where 397 00:24:25,241 --> 00:24:29,100 I could help people to awaken to the deeper sense of themselves, 398 00:24:29,161 --> 00:24:32,960 so that they can elevate themselves at this foundational level. 399 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:35,509 Host: Well, Ryan, thank you so much for taking some time to 400 00:24:35,557 --> 00:24:38,540 join us in the program today and for helping us become better. 401 00:24:38,540 --> 00:24:43,394 Ryan Gottfredson: Thanks for having me, and thanks for 402 00:24:43,529 --> 00:24:51,890 creating this platform. I know having a podcast is not an easy 403 00:24:52,025 --> 00:25:00,386 thing to do, and it's actually a very generous thing to do, so 404 00:25:00,521 --> 00:25:08,748 appreciate your willingness to do that so that people like me 405 00:25:08,882 --> 00:25:11,580 can share our ideas.