Foreign.

Welcome to do this, not that, the podcast for marketers.

You'll walk away from each episode with actionable tips you can test immediately.

You'll hear from the best minds in marketing who will share tactics, quick wins, and pitfalls to avoid.

Also, dig into life, pop culture, and the chaos that is our everyday.

I'm Jay Schwedelson.

Let's do this, not that.

We are back for do this not that podcast.

And we have a super duper awesome human being here today.

Who is here?

All right, listen, we got Russ Perry.

He is the CEO and founder of Design Pickle.

Now, you probably know Design Pickle, but.

But if you don't, it is the world's largest subscription creative service on the planet.

The guy has crushed it.

They've designed over 2 million different designs that they've delivered.

They've been on the Inc.

5000 list for like the last zillion years.

The guy is a creativity like machine.

He also has a great podcast which we'll get into.

But Russ, welcome to the podcast.

Jay, I'm super stoked to be here, man.

Thank you for having me.

Nice.

All right, before we get into creative stuff and design and stuff you could apply to your life, how did you wind up Design Pickle leading the charge on this whole thing?

How did Russ become Russ?

Well, that's a long story that probably would require some parental advisory warnings, but I think the thing that I always go back to is I just loved solving problems as a kid, and for me, solving problems sometimes got me into trouble because I thought rules were stupid.

But, you know, like many of us creatives, entrepreneurs, whoever it might be, you know, that is, that is kind of how it goes.

We see things differently.

We want to improve.

And so as I went to school, got a degree, did all the normal things that, you know, you're kind of taught to do.

I had an incredible job at Apple early on, you know, in the retail launch that they were launching stores, and.

And I was.

And it was a kush amazing job.

Was fortunate enough to work for that brand when they launched not only the ipod, which hopefully people still remember that, the iPhone, the iPad.

I mean, it was like banger after banger.

And I got like a front row seat to what branding and marketing was.

However, at my heart, I'm a nerd.

I.

I love technology.

I love really geeky stuff.

So I sort of mashed up my love for that and my love for marketing and what I learned.

Launched an agency early on, but focused on B2B technology agencies.

And we did Branding and stuff for them.

I totally failed.

It did not work.

And it did not work because I was young, I didn't know how to run a business.

I didn't even know what a P and L was.

But over that, I gained some really valuable lessons.

And the biggest one was that systems and process really matter and actually are really lacking in design and creativity.

And I took that lesson and applied it to a new business model.

A wild idea that I had one night where I said to myself, I wonder if you could just have a subscription service to work with a graphic designer.

You pay one flat rate, it doesn't change.

You sign up.

Like you sign up for Netflix.

You and you just get whatever it is you need to get done.

And that was in 2014.

That idea came launched, Design Pickle.

Just because it was a domain that was available.

The name and I love pickles.

And we're knocking on 10 years, Jay.

It's been 10 years since I've done that.

And like you said, we're the biggest, we're the best.

We help thousands and thousands of businesses get graphic design.

And it's still that same core thing.

Dependable, reliable, easy to work with, fun brand.

And to this day, that problem solving piece of me is what I love the most.

And I continue to put into my business and my life in many other ways.

So that's an amazing story and it's inspiring also because it's like, okay, you failed.

And I think that people get nervous about failing sometimes and you turn it into success.

But.

And I heard you say something before getting get into the topic of the day, which is this idea of applied creativity.

I was watching you on a video and you said something that I was curious about.

You said this idea of piggy back design and there's really no original ideas and you should get comfortable with that.

And it's almost like the idea of your business, where it was an original idea, but really it's a design services business.

What does that mean?

What is piggyback design and how does that.

How should we think about that with our creativity and our design?

You know, it's so funny, Jay.

That's a term that I kind of made up related to the branding process.

You're the first person ever to apply it to like a larger business container.

But it's exactly the same.

And let me explain what it is.

Piggyback design.

There's a kid's game, you know, hey, or you know, play you.

I want to do piggyback.

I do it with my young girls.

They Jump on my back and I carry them around.

You use someone else to get, get, get through, move around.

And, and, and the term originated inside of the branding process when people would be like, well, I want to create something, I don't know what.

And I would say, well, go find some creativity.

Find a brand you like.

You know, it doesn't have to be in your industry, doesn't have to be in your space.

You just think this is where it's at and you use that brand and piggyback off of it to build yours.

So for me, that has always been a tactic for creation because nothing's original out there.

I mean, maybe with the exception of like extreme, you know, quantum physics and biosciences where you're making metals out of whatever things you're creating.

But like reality is everything is a better version of what's been done before.

And with design pickle, like you said, and I never thought of that.

It was just a piece of what it's like to work with a full time person.

You get to work with the same person.

A piece of what it's like to have a subscription service, same price every month.

A piece of what it's like to work with a freelancers or a team.

You could like scale it up or down.

If you need it, you don't, you know, and I took all of these parts of the way people used to get creativity and I put it together under one roof.

So yeah, it's essentially that.

But using it in a business context and I, I love using it because it, it, you don't have to always be the most original.

Really what matters is how do you execute.

And when you're starting from zero, it's often very hard to go from zero to even 50% or 80%.

But if you start at 50% because you put a couple things together, it's much better than to go from 50% to 80% or 90% and you don't have to have that pressure of doing it all from nothing.

I think that's so great and so important for people to hear because I think, you know, I love Shark Tank, think it's a great show, but in some ways it screwed up all of our minds.

Everybody thinks you have to create this like brand new thing in a brand new market.

And that's not really how it goes.

It's very similar.

What you did, you looked at an inefficient market, the design space, you said there's gotta be a better way to do this thing.

And you piggybacked onto it.

And you created this awesome thing.

And here we are.

Design pickles was crushing it.

And I think it's important for when they're iterating and thinking about their ideas that they understand that.

So let's take it even a step further though.

Now, outside of the world of design in your business, you talk a lot about this idea of applied creativity in life and everything.

What is this?

What are we talking about?

So quick antidote to get there.

Over my career, I've been in the creative space, either as a kid and taking art classes.

I studied industrial design, I worked for creative companies, I've had agencies.

And there's this term that I hear that drives me up the wall.

I'm not creative.

I'm not creative.

And I just thought that was so crazy because creativity has been often bucketed into a very narrow, small bucket of visual design.

So when you say, oh, I'm not creative, most people or many people think about, well, can I draw, can I paint, can I do these things, can I make music?

Or whatever.

But to me, creativity is just another word for problem solving and sometimes creativity.

The problem is I want to express myself and I want to express myself in a unique way.

But it's also, what is it that I want to create to accomplish a goal and do that in an original way.

Over the years I discovered that creativity is no different than any other skill it's learned.

And so then I got down this path one day and I was like, well, well, how do you be more creative and particularly in your business?

Because I think many businesses would say they, they're not creative or they are, you know, boring, quote unquote.

And a lot of that comes down to the leaders themselves and who's driving the ideas and who's driving the strategy.

So, you know, people hire agencies and they hire creative, you know, directors and all this stuff.

And that's great.

But I've discovered like, if I am being more creative in other areas of my life, as a father, as a parent, as a romantic partner, as a friend, with myself just doing things that are creative, I actually build that muscle really in a safe container.

You know, if I do something weird and creative with my kids, it's a little different than if I do something weird and creative with my sales and marketing funnel.

You know, if you, you do something weird and creative with your sale to market buckle doesn't work, you're going to be in trouble.

But if you're like, hey kids, we're going to go check out this thing or do this project, and it doesn't work.

Everyone has a fun time and no one gets hurt.

Usually no one gets hurt.

But the idea, the idea then is like, how do you safely practice creativity and build that muscle so that when it's time to be creative and built in your business, you are more confident?

And that's what applied creativity is.

It's like applying creative principles of being creative, doing out of the box stuff, challenging yourself outside of business so that you can then do that confidently inside your business.

And I've been doing it for years.

I find that it's, it's a, it's a thing that I'm proactively seeking and trying to always build that muscle and make myself more creative, but through the act of practice, like any other skill that people can learn.

So, okay, what does this mean in practical terms?

Does that mean, like, you go out with your kids?

Like, all right, kids, get all the leaves around the house and let's build an igloo out of leaves.

Like, how do you actually do applied creativity in practice?

Let me show you.

I'm so glad you asked.

Here's my current project right now.

What is that?

This is called the Sabbath box.

So what I did, it's a, you know, if you're religious, you know, the Sabbath is a Sunday.

You're supposed to rest.

One day I was like, you know what?

What if I locked up all the electronics in the house.

Phones, iPads, computers, remote controls, what would happen?

Well, my kids, that's what would happen.

A lot of enemies.

Well, you would think.

And so I bought this on Amazon.

You know, you could easily smash it, but my kids are younger, so they're okay.

And we did it.

And it was incredible.

About 10 minutes after the grumbling and the complaining, because I put my phone in there.

I mean, every thing went in here.

We just started hanging out.

And they asked if we could play some games.

And my two youngest, who are 9 and 12, sometimes don't get along.

Both girls who are at each other, they started playing together.

We walked to a restaurant nearby.

I had no phone.

I just had a wallet.

And we just did it and hung.

We did it for about eight hours.

At the end of the day, I checked in with them, I unlocked it, and they got things.

At the end of the day, I selfishly also wanted to check my phone.

They said the best part of their day was Sabbath box.

Wow.

And so I run little experiments.

I do creative art projects that I'm terrible at because it's just fun.

I think it's different for everybody, right?

And it's how do you break the pattern?

How do you do something that's not been done but doesn't have to be crazy, right?

It could simply be how you have your day planned.

It could be the activities you do.

For me, creativity often comes in trying to be creative in music, in art.

I suck in both those areas.

But it is flexing that muscle.

So it's not about one way.

It's really what's the thing that would be different than the normal approach to your Saturday afternoon or date night or whatever it is that you're looking at trying to apply it towards?

I think that's awesome.

And I also think it's important for people to be intentional about making it part of their lives.

And it could also be, you know, for me, like when I started this podcast, it.

It's very.

It's like being on a hamster wheel.

It's tough, but it forces me to research and learn and explore things and try to come up with new formats and my little version of, you know, creativity that's out of my comfort zone.

And I think for everybody, I think, right.

It's important to be like, I'm not just gonna do this once and I'll do it again.

Six months.

It's something that you're trying to do ongoing as part of your life outside of work.

Is it, is it like intentional like that you have something every week, month, or whatever you're trying?

So the answer is yes.

But I try to do something every quarter.

So I operate my life in 90 day timelines and every 90 days I try to do one thing that pushes me with my health, my body.

So that could be like a physical challenge.

I'm going to do some winter hiking in December with my family.

So that's more often a trip, an experience somewhere, a new restaurant or, or, or simply a museum we haven't been to or.

It could be more, more than that, right?

Like a, like a trip out of town together in my relationships with other family and, you know, partners.

And then in my business.

And the business one usually is strategic.

You know, I'm not just like winging it and trying to think of random things, but is about trying something that could, if successful, help the business.

So my podcast Jar of Genius is that project right now.

It is a out of the box, different, you know, non direct to the funnel project that like probably you.

I am invested in for the long term to create every week and to push something out there.

But in the past it has been public speaking or it's been writing a book or it's been other things.

So three or to four things every 90 days and some roll into the next and some are easy, some take a lot of work.

But I find that's a healthy balance.

And you may not do it all.

You know, there might be something that just you can't do, but generally you do one or two.

Which is better than most people who do nothing and they're on their own hamster wheel doing the same thing over and over and over and over again and not growing creatively and not growing their experiences that can help them with whatever challenges they're facing.

I love that.

I think I need to incorporate this 90 day thing.

I don't know if I'm going to get the box and put my 17, 18 year olds phones in there because they might actually find a knife and hurt me.

But I do love it.

I have a question though before we wrap up.

I have a question.

So you have, you know, you have your kids, you have your daughters, right?

And they come home and they, they draw something and now they show to you and you're like the founder of Design Pickle, like it's really giant design company and if they show it to you, are you like oh my God, that's amazing.

Or are you like, listen, your, your texture here is terrible, your color patterns are horrible.

Like, like, do you put on your design like chief officer hat?

I mean what happens there?

So do I crush their create?

No, I, you know, I am, I am.

You might be super shocked to hear this, but my girls are actually really creative.

Surprise.

Actually just this morning.

Yesterday was my youngest birthday.

She turned nine and she's so funny and weird.

Her favorite animal, not just fish, her favorite animal of all time is an angler fish.

Which is like the fish with the light that hangs out in it, has a crazy teeth and eats other fish which I, how did you even.

I know and like she loves it.

She wanted a stuffed animal and I saw a painting she did of it and it was awesome.

I, I, I do like put, put the container of their age and skills around their artwork.

So I'm not comparing them to professionals that I work with but I think it's super important to encourage, encourage anyone where they're at.

And you know, my oldest was in orchestra, did cello.

Was she going to go to Juilliard and be a Broadway cellist?

No.

But she was, it was her thing and she loved it and it created an identity and a sense of confidence for her that I don't Think, you know, she would have had otherwise.

And now she's at university, she's and doing amazing.

So I think as a parent you have to, you know, adjust your, your, your bar measurement.

But I think it's just about getting those at bats and that's what's the best thing you can do whether they succeed or not.

Like I tried to do a creative project not too long ago with my two youngest.

It was a very technical crafting project and it was a total disaster.

And I like everyone was upset and frustrated.

So not everything goes well you know, with this, with this strategy by the way.

Just spoiler alert.

Just like if you try to lock your kids phones up, they would probably like, you know, smash your car window or something.

Yeah.

Well, here's the most important thing.

Everybody listen, follow and connect with Russ.

Okay, Russ Perry on LinkedIn.

But send him your doodles, your sketches, your artwork.

Yes.

Because he will give you critiques back on how good or bad it is and you know, usually positive reinforcement, but he loves it, so send those to him.

And Jarrodinius is a fantastic podcast.

We're going to put this all in the show.

Notes and definitely design pickle.com check them out.

Russ, what did I forget?

How should people get involved in your world?

Yeah, I mean, look, we covered a lot, but there's three places I love sending people.

First is going to be actually my newsletter.

It's called Unlid, kind of a nod to a pickle jar.

Just russperry.substack.com I write there a few times a month.

It's really about these experiments.

It's about what I'm doing.

You can read about it.

Eventually I'll write about the Sabbath box.

That's an active experiment.

I.

Yeah.

If you are someone who is looking to bring on a fractional designer and work with an incredible software platform to help you and your teams create more at a flat fixed rate.

Design Pickle.com is the best and through those you can find me.

I'm Russ Perry on every media social handle.

So that's easy too.

But love every day I post and talk about applied creativity on those channels.

I'm always posting about my experiments and adventures and lessons at Design Pickle.

So one of those things will get you there.

Love it.

And I'm telling you everybody, excellent person, connect with and follow.

So check it all out.

We'll put it all in the show notes and check out Jar of Genius, the podcast.

And Russ, appreciate you being here, man.

Appreciate it too.

Jay.

Good luck with your Sabbath box and your kids.

Thank you.

Thank you.

All right, later.

You did it.

You made it to the end.

Nice.

But the parties not over.

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