So what's going on, everybody?

Hey, everyone.

Hello.

I know you can't see me today, but I am here. I am Derek.

Give us the hand puppet.

He's got a hand. There he is. There's the hand.

Mr. Sacco.

Mr. Sacco.

Here. Is this better?

All the children of the 90s.

There he is.

All right, so I am here. I promise. I'm Derek.

And I'm Matt. And I'm comfortable in the corner because I was told to me is reason it's so comfortable is because it's 90 degrees.

No, the reason it's warm in the cold.

I think that's funny.

I thought it was hilarious.

Yes. So I'm here.

Dave Racer's here.

Dave's back in here. And we have two guests with us today. You're gonna need to lean forward when you introduce yourself.

I do, yes.

Cause the camera will need to see.

There you go.

Okay.

Hello, camera.

Hello.

Right.

I am Hadassah Saliga.

And I'm Brian Saliga.

Saliga.

I'm on the camera. And make sure that they see your face.

It's okay. Oh, he's the closest. So they're gonna see.

They're gonna see me. They're gonna see my big old face.

Okay, so we got a full house.

Today, but you only have one queen.

And mine's at home. So who would be the ace? Oh, no, the kid's here.

Who's the ace?

That's a mine.

I'm the joker, but I'm just not funny.

The joker's not in a full house.

The joker's not always funny.

Queens and aces don't have to even.

Be in a full house. Right?

You're thinking of royal flush.

Oh, I am. I am thinking of a royal flesh.

So anyway, Buttons, why don't you guys tell us a little bit about yourselves, your business before we get kicked into this business?

I guess I'll let. I'll let Brian start off because he complains I don't let him get a word in it twice. So this might be the only opportunity you have to hear his voice.

And he hasn't started yet.

Be my last chance.

So, I mean, I just want to make sure that he has a chance.

That's where she's going to go. I knew she was going to go there. Okay, so.

So go ahead and go, Brian.

Who's stopping you?

Go.

I don't know can do this all day.

It's been a riot. I'm done.

You guys talked for two hours and nothing happened.

And now Dave's doing it.

So my name is Brian Saliga with Saliga Imagery. I'm a photographer based in Lehigh, Fort Myers area. So this business I've been doing for now, 20 plus years, but. So I've been doing it for quite a while, enjoying it and dang good.

At what it does.

Started it actually, ironically, when I was in Bible college. So, yes, I do have biblical knowledge to some degree.

Ish.

Ish.

I didn't know we were questioning it.

Hey, I'm more than just a pretty face that knows how to take a picture. I can actually have some knowledge here.

Oh, I could take it somewhere.

Anyways, I will be off to my wife.

I will refrain and be nice.

And now you, Hadassah.

I'm Hadassah Saliga. I am the wife and better half of Brian in Seliga imagery. I am the. I don't. I don't know how to say it nicely, so I just won't say it. I am the office manager and billing department person. I do the marketing. I do all that stuff that nobody likes to do. Calling people, going, give me my money.

You're the person that gets the opposite side.

I'm the one. I'm like the one Rihanna was singing about.

I'm not sure. I don't listen to Rihanna, so I have no idea.

It's okay. If your listeners know. If your listeners know Rihanna, they'll know who I'm talking.

So I just said, you're just the one that gets it done.

I'm the one who gets the money.

Yeah.

Gets it done.

I get it done. I get it done. And I also met my husband in Bible college. And what.

What college you guys go to?

We went to life Bible college. Don't talk.

Whoa, Dang cold.

This is what I'm saying.

Maybe the episode should go to, where is life Bible man leading the house and being silent.

So we. I think we found the topic.

No, that's a joke that they will get, right?

So life bubble.

I'll teach them.

So anyway, we went to life bubble College in Christiansburg, Virginia, and I was there already for a year. He showed up and I was like, smitten. Yeah, he just walked in one day. I was smoked. I was smitten. And I was like, let's be friends. And he's like, we're just gonna be friends. And so I was like, friend zoned immediately. Awesome. A year later, I wore him down. And then four years later, we got married.

Wow, that's very opposite. From what you normally hear, it's normally the guy getting friend zoned. Immediately, and then them wearing them down.

I have always been, in Spanish, we call it the atrevida. I'm always the one who's, like, super daring, very, like, throw myself into any situation, usually feet first. But sometimes, you know, my head heads the water. Sometimes I don't know.

And I can vouch for all this. I've known her for quite a while.

Nine years.

I did get the friend zone part because there were other girls that I actually pursued there.

So I was pursuing him, he was.

Pursuing others, and I got friend zoned.

So, yes, it does help.

And I was there to pick up the pieces. Like a good friend.

Sure.

All right.

And like a good neighbor.

State Farm is there.

We are not getting paid by State Farm.

No, but I had to finish it.

I was just gonna ask, like, obviously we know where they met. Where'd you meet your wife?

Well, actually, originally I met my wife in high school.

There you go.

But. But I didn't pursue her back then. So when I was a senior in high school, she was a freshman. So it was three year difference from us. And like, as soon as I met her, I mean, she was gorgeous. She's tall like me. So I was like. I mean, that was easy for me to spot on because I'm a tall guy and so. And her personality, there was just something about her. There was always something about her. But I saw it was like, you can't. It was instantly like, you can't, because I'm getting ready to turn 18. She's, you know, she's young and that's not right.

Okay, wait, you were 18? How old is she?

She was turning 15, I think, at the time.

Three years in high school. Big, big difference.

Big difference. But it's funny, like, as soon as you get out of it, it's not a big difference anymore. But, like, during high school, though, I was like, you can. And so I just. Even though there was always something, I really liked her. And our lockers are right next to each other, and we were staying with her room and the whole thing. And I was like. But I was like, I can't let myself go there. And, like, it was cool because, like, there was a couple times where she needed to ride home. And I'm like, I want to do that. But that was it. And I was very nice. And I didn't, you know, I didn't.

You did a little clap and everything in my head.

So, like.

And it was. But, no, but so because of the age gap back then, I was like, you know, cross it off and then, you know, went out and did some life and made some mistakes and ended up in my early 20s getting into a ill fought relationship and marriage and divorce and it was terrible. And afterwards I was a single dad on my own. And one day I just. What happened is I thought about her. I was watching a movie and an actress reminded me of her. And so I was like, I'm gonna look her up. And I was thinking to myself, I'm gonna look this girl up and she's gonna be happily married with kids.

And did you, did you make a Facebook love connection?

No, not exactly. So.

But I have to know.

No, it wasn't like that. But so I just, I looked her up and she was like, it wasn't what I thought. I thought she would be, you know, well off the table and she wasn't. And she had gone through some crazy stuff herself. And I was listening about some of the guys in her past and I was just, in a moment of honesty, told her I didn't really made me upset to hear about this. And she's like, why? And I said, well, I gotta be honest. And I kind of just threw it out there, you know, I had this thing. And she's like, why didn't you ever say anything? And I was like, and when somebody asks you that question, there's really no good answer. I just remember thinking, because I'm still dumb. What do you mean?

Because you were trying not to go to jail maybe.

Well, that. But be respectful, like I was, you know, and. But then I was like, hold the phone, like, I see an opening here. And so I was like, let's. And I asked her out and she said yes. And honestly, I think both of us were like, you know, probably nothing could happen from this. We went into our first date and it was like we had been dating for 10 years. It was the most comfortable I'd ever been, ever. It was so perfect. It was. I mean, we just instantly felt like we could just be ourselves. It was wonderful. And I came out of that first date going, oh, boy. Well, this could be. This could be. This could be.

This could be it.

Yeah. So that's how. I mean, we kind of became us. And it was beautiful. And I am convinced, and I've been convinced that God made her for me. And it was all a matter of timing when we were supposed to get together. Because, like, she is my rib, she is everything for me.

And you guys stayed in the same area through all of that stuff that you dealt with.

Strangely enough, we kind of both thought about leaving the area at different times and. But just things just kind of kept us there. And in fact, our circles kept overlapping, and yet somehow we were kind of missing each other. We'd run into each other from time to time, but we weren't ever spending the time at the same time in the places that we were both spending. And it was really weird to find this out later, but eventually, yeah, all it took was that, like, one day I just. Like I said, I just thought of her and took a shot. And when I saw a shot, and that was it. And I don't plan on ever letting her go. Yeah, I shot my shot.

You need nothing but net. Yeah, you got the ring.

Swish. Actually, I love joking, actually. When I did ask her to marry me, well, she didn't make it obvious at all by sending me ring styles and making sure I knew her size. There was some signs that she might be in that lane, but. But I told her, and I keep. The joke is, is I locked her down at a reasonable rate while I could still afford it. But no, actually, I had it in my head. Funny thing. As soon as we started dating, and we're not on a topic at all right now, so I'm sorry, everyone, but right. As soon as we started dating, I somehow knew exactly how I wanted to. If I was like, if I'm gonna marry this girl, I know how I'm gonna do it. And Because I thought back to high school, and I was like, man, did you miss your shot?

Or.

I know you put her in a different area. What can you do? And I just wanted to go back in time and fix it, is what I wanted to do. And so what I did is I was like, I gotta get her as close to the spot we met as possible, and if I'm gonna do it. And a friend of mine worked for the school, and. And our school had changed since we graduated. They did some renovations and stuff. And so I started dropping hints. I was like, you know, wouldn't it be cool to, like, go there and see what it looks like now? And she was like, oh, that would be cool. I'm like, good, good, good. Yeah. And, like, kept doing that. And then. So what I did is I got my friend to get us in for a tour. That would end where? In a hallway. The hallway that we met in was the same in front of where our lockers were so I could go back to the start, and that's what I did. Oh, so she had no idea. She had no idea what was going on. And so we were in front of those lockers, and suddenly she heard my voice change a little bit. I got a little nervous. That's when she knew that actually is. She's like, oh, this is happening. Yes.

I could die. That was so sweet.

Yeah.

So cute.

Yeah.

Anyway, eat it now.

So where'd you meet your wife?

Online. Christian dating for free. Calm.

Christian dating for free. That's a long website.

It is a long website. We were actually engagement. We were actually both exiting the website, and she had messaged me back, you know, and I was like, well, if she's gonna take time, message me back. I'll be respectful and message her back. And so, you know, instead of just like, deuces, I'm not. You know, whatever. We'd both been burned a lot on there, so. So. And then we talked for six months. She said poop or get off the pot, quite literally in a text message.

Wow. My kind of girl.

So we started dating, and then we dated for six months. We're engaged for six months, and we're married.

Awesome.

Yeah.

Cool.

See, that is sweet.

Yeah.

Yes.

Tell us your story.

This is not how I thought this episode.

This is not.

Yeah.

I mean, we're going around telling each other's love stories. You might as well.

That's Dave's fault. Got mine.

You got my sapphire.

A lot of editing to do now.

Because you guys told your story in, like, a paragraph. His was like a dissertation.

Well, I mean, like, I just. I told the story. I told the story.

It was fall. There was mist.

I could have gone in.

I know.

I bet you could have. I could, too.

But, you know, no. Short story on mine is I was homeschooled my whole life. My wife was homeschooled her whole life.

Explains a lot.

I know. Homeschool high five.

That's right. Homeschool high five.

Right.

But on video.

Oh, yeah.

There was an organization started in Minnesota called Youth Educated at Home, or Yay. And their whole thing was they were supposed. You're trying to pull kids out of isolation and get them connected. So one of the events that we went to. What?

Youth Educated at Home. Is not Yay. It's.

Yeah, whatever.

It was just that we always called it yay.

Hi, Mom.

Hoffner, you got it wrong. That's the other half of homeschoolers.

Yep. There's the other one.

Yeah.

Anyway, the truth response does not necessarily promote any of the other.

Anyway. But yeah. So I actually met my wife when she was 13. I was like. I was 15. She was 13. Then I turned 16. She was about to turn 14, and I asked her dad if I could take her out on her 14th birthday, and he said no, and I was mad. Then I asked him again, and he said no. I asked him a third time, and he said, back off. And then she eventually moved from Minnesota down to Florida with her family. We lost touch. And I found her through a mutual friend when I was about 19, I think, thinking she wanted nothing to do with me and she wanted everything to do with me. So I was very happy. Yeah, there's a much longer story to go along with that.

Their wedding photos are so stinking cute.

I know.

Aren't they just.

I feel like, you know, I see them every year. It comes up on my Facebook feed, so I'm always like, oh, it's their anniversary. Oh, look.

How so you. You talk about how she's my rib. Whatever. She's my second. When I was 18, my parents told me, okay, now that you're 18, you can decide whether or not you want to go to church. So I said, I'm out, because I was just tired of going to church. So I didn't do anything crazy. I just didn't go to church for six years. So when I met her, her dad's a preacher. His dad's a preacher. His dad's a preacher. Same thing on her mom's side. So they are as deeply ingrained in Christianity as you could possibly get. So she was so beautiful. I followed her back into church.

It was a great, pretty girl. Evangelism.

No, it doesn't.

It does.

It doesn't. But when it works, it works.

Missionary dating only takes you so far.

Hey, I'm a product of missionary dating.

That's what I'm saying, man.

I'll tell you what. It works in my youth group, and it's brought a lot of dudes in, and I am happy.

Well, let me know. Never mind.

Anyway, that was a product of missionary dating.

That's an entirely like.

So what topic did you pull today? We are going to do a card. Yeah, we're gonna pull a card and start there and see where it goes.

As if it's not chaos enough.

And I'm going to reveal what it is after we pray.

So you already know what it is.

I do know what it is. I pulled it.

That's why he's playing.

He loves to do this here.

That's why he's playing.

I'll even show you guys. I can't read it.

They might not even be able to read it.

You guys probably can't Anyways, so. Yeah, so we will hit that topic.

Sounds good.

After these messages.

After these messages. What?

What are you pointing at?

I was pointing at Brian.

Oh, do they have something to say? Oh, well, I mean, we gotta cut to the. To the welcome to the truth response.

Right. I just don't know what to do with my hand.

All right, Brian, would you mind praying for us?

Sure.

Heavenly Father, thank you for this time that we have to be together on this podcast to see each other's different viewpoints, talk about things that will hopefully open other people's minds and hearts to just try to understand what the Christian viewpoint and how we see what your plan is for our lives and for the lives of others around us. So I just really just pray that you just help us to just be respectful and really just spread this message to as many people that will hear it. In your name I pray. Amen.

So since I'm not on camera today, I'm gonna read the card. And this one. This one's fun.

Cool.

This one. This one. I think it's fun.

You and I have different definitions of what's fun with a card subject. Sometimes.

Sometimes. But this time he likes dropping bones. I think it helps tie in. The suspense is killing me.

Just read the card.

I like the suspense, so I don't like it.

That's why I did it before the thing.

The patient. Right. All right. So as a Christian.

As a Christian, you did it wrong.

How do you interact with other people of other cultures? How do you interact with people of other cultures?

Like a person. I'm sorry, that's not a challenging question. Yeah, but like, okay, it's just not a challenging question, but interact like you would with anyone else.

Sure. But like, a different culture may have different viewpoints on things. How do you do that? How do you navigate that?

Hmm.

That's a great question. For missions trips, for sure.

Yeah.

But, well, I mean, it's. It comes down to.

We have a bunch of different cultures in this country, so in this world.

I think it's a decision that you make way before you ever meet that person. On, you know, for me, it's, you know, am I going to represent Christ well in all that I do? If I'm going to do that, if someone comes from other cultures, can I respect the person and love the person? Yes. Will I necessarily agree with what they're saying? No. Can I express such things without feeling like I'm attacking them or trying to belittle them? Yes. So, like, that's the kind of thing I Bring into it. I've met people from all kinds of different cultures, and it's weird to have those interactions sometimes. But I think when, you know, if I'm trying to show them something, even if it's just in my behavior, a little bit of who Christ is, then I gotta go, okay, well, yeah, how your lifestyle is may not be what I'm going to agree with whatsoever, but I'm going to treat you as a person with some dignity and some respect and maybe even a little love and maybe try to keep the conversation, you know, proper so that, you know, you get a little bit of who I'm representing without me trying to disqualify myself as a witness. But also to give you the wrong impression.

Yeah. And not shove an agenda down you. Because, I mean, I think the problem is that a lot of people think that, you know, Christians just want to shove our theology down a person's throat and not respect what that person is because, you know, they may be different. And I think, yeah, like my wife said, we just accept them as people. I mean, we, you know, again, since we were from. I mean, we have different cultures. I mean, she's Cuban, I'm American, and I am the. I am the White Bread of.

Of.

And so with that inherently comes other cultures and traditions.

But even beyond that, yeah, you're very American. But even when I went to Miami and, you know, went to church, her church there and everything like that, even then it was just a different culture. And for me, and, you know, it's. And seeing some of their viewpoints that I didn't agree with, you know, and I was like, I don't believe that. But I was still respectful and was able to have conversations with them because, you know, I think the ultimate thing that we really are lacking as a populace in general is just if we don't agree with somebody, we don't try to see their side right now. And unfortunately, that's. We need to be able to see that other person's side to be able to say, okay, even if I don't agree with what you're doing, there's some degree of love that I should be showing you because you are my neighbor, even if you're my enemy. God commanded us, love your enemies. So even if somebody is doing something that we may not agree with, we still have to show some degree of love if they need our help and everything like that.

So, yeah, I like how you brought up that Sometimes the world sees Christians or Christianity as just a bunch of.

Like, we're like Bible Thumpers.

Yeah, Bible thumpers. People that want to bash you in the head with it. And it's funny because, like, no, I mean, it's not what we're trying to do. However, I can understand it, and the reason I can definitely understand it is because, you know, for those who come to a full belief in Christ and. And what he's done for us, we are earnestly excited about it. And how much would we have to hate people to not want to tell them about it, to not try to get them to understand because it's such an amazing gift. Like, of course we want you to get it. You know, it's just sometimes we need to be a little more careful how we do it.

And I think coming from a Jewish perspective, when you come to. Okay, I'm gonna give you a perfect response. This is. This is some. This is something that.

Is a high bar.

Okay, Listen. No, this is. This is the perfect. This is the perfect way for me to explain how I. What I'm trying to say, okay? There was a Jewish woman that I follow on Facebook, Okay. And I comment on her posts all the time. I'm always part of the group, and. And it's very, very relaxed and whatever. She posted a track. You know what those Christian tracks are, right?

Yeah.

She posted a picture of the track, and she goes, I was literally just trying to roller skate, okay? So someone skated up to her, handed her a track, and left, and she goes, I can't even go roller skating without somebody trying to convert me. And I think that is the biggest negative part of the reputation behind Christianity, because. Let me explain. And I know I see the wheels turning. Just give me a second.

I want to add on to something too, but I'll let her finish.

Thanks. So the reason I think it is a huge disservice to Christianity is because there's a time and place for having that conversation. And cold and unfeeling tracks is not the way to do it. And so a lot of people, when they hear the word Christians and they hear you start talking about Jesus, immediately their brain is, oh, they just want to convert me. Oh, they're just trying to. They're trying to get another number for their church. Another butt in the seat, another dollar in the basket. You know, these are. This is the worldview mentality that my community sees. That's what they see. So that's why it's so difficult for a Christian to go to Israel and be accepted amongst. You know, if you're gonna go to. If you go to Israel, and you go to the churches, no problem. You can go to visit the wall, no problem. You can do all these things. Christians are welcome in Israel because the Israelis know, right? And the Jewish people, we know that Jesus was Jewish, and you're there to celebrate Jesus and all of that. The problem is when there's missionaries who come and they try to infiltrate and convert everybody. That's why you'll see Hasidic Jews standing on the corner throwing rocks at the missionaries. Why? Because they don't want anyone converting anybody else. Because that's not. It's. It's so violently been thrust upon the Jewish people. And I can say that with confidence, because that's happened and it's history. And it's happened from. From the time of Saul has happened where, you know, I. I'm not trying to convert you, but I'm going to do everything in my power to stop you from trying to convert everybody. So for me, evangelism and. And interacting with other cultures has to be separate. And that is the way that my worldview works is I will. I will do evangelism if that is the purpose of me being there. I'm not going to shy away from evangelism. I will tell you about my God, you about my. My belief in God and everything like that. That is not a problem. I. If that is the reason I'm there, I'm going to do that. I'm not going to shy away. But if the reason I'm there is to interact with you, get to know you and build a relationship, converting you is the last thing on my mind. I want to show my faith first and then create a door that opens so that there's an organic exchange of information, an exchange of thought and exchange of the belief. Otherwise, it's. It's. It's farce. And it's like, it's not. It's a fake friendship. What's the point of me trying to get to know you if my entire goal is just to convert you?

Mm. Yeah.

Well, and I think a lot of, like, you said that you touched on, like, people trying to force it down your throat. I mean, I remember back when the. The first. What you call homosexual relationship was put up on in a Disney movie, and there was this massive. Everybody's gotta boycott Disney.

What?

Right now.

What. What. What are you talking about?

There's been many of them.

Homosexual relationship In a Disney movie.

Disney movie, yes. There have been so many of them. Wait, we'll go over them later.

Like a main character or like, side characters?

Both.

Like They've been, they've been multiple all over the map.

I'm trying to think there's several completely lost.

So anyway, but, but I remember like everybody was just like, everybody's got a boycott Disney. We got a boycott Disney. And then finally, like, Disney never said we're Christian. Disney never said we're a Christ owned company. So they're following whatever they want to do. You don't want to watch the movies. Don't watch the movies, Right, exactly. But to your point though, I think that the majority of people, it's kind of like sales. It's like, let's see, nobody wants to be sold. We live in a culture right now everybody hates being sold to. But you need somebody to come talk to you if you have a problem. If you have a bug problem, you need someone to come talk to you about your pest control.

But are you gonna talk to someone you trust about your bug problem and your pest control? Are you gonna walk up to some Joe on the street and go, hey, I've got spiders.

Right? So here's.

Okay, so it depends on how crazy you are.

That's what I'm saying.

There might be some that go, hey.

I got one in a million shot. You stop the right pest control guy.

On the street 100%. So where. So in a similar sense, so he's a photographer, right? Okay, so you're a photographer. You see somebody at a party, you're like, I want to tell them I'm a photographer because they may need my services. They go, I don't want to be sold. I'll look for a photographer when I'm ready. Now they're gonna be into it. Now they gotta find a photographer. They're gonna go to Google and if you're not top of the list, you're not even gonna get looked at. But you're the best one on the market, right? So how. So there's your, there's your weird thing. It's like, like Pen.

That actually is. That's my viewpoint. I don't want you to come tell me. But knowing is important too, you know? Like if you were to come up to me in a party, like in that scenario, that'd be the same thing. I'd be like, oh, I'm not looking for one right now. You know, I don't.

Right. But that's the other thing.

Why you'd be the first one on my list, right? Like, you would be there.

Why would you prospect somebody at a party?

Right?

Like to me, that's my worldview too. Like it's all about context, place, time, relationship.

There is too many factors to that point. To that point, though, on the opposite. I know you have something. I know you got something to that, like, he's holding on. Look, look, I don't get to speak much now that you two are on here. Now there's three of you. So I don't know. But. So there's a difference between somebody saying on the street, you know, you know, God hates sinners, you know, and all this, and Jesus loves you. There's a difference between somebody having that and then somebody just holding up a sign says, Jesus loves you. There's a difference between those two things, right?

Both and so met with violence, though. I'm jet. I'm dead serious. Well, both will be depending on the violence.

But. But here's the deal from different. That doesn't matter.

No, but it.

That part. But it doesn't matter.

Why?

Because that. The one who's being loving, right? The one who's just saying, look, Jesus loves you. We're not. We're not actually like all those people that are pushing hate, right? They're taking a stand against that God hates sinners side of it, right. That's the line of duty. Right? That. So it doesn't matter if we, if we're met with violence, it doesn't matter if we're imprisoned. It doesn't matter because that's the line of duty.

And I can get behind that. I think that what I'm saying is by they're gonna be met with violence is because both sides of the aisle are going to find some reason to not believe you.

Sure.

So you stand there with a sign that says, Jesus love you, you're gonna have one person from one side of the aisle say, oh, that's so great, Jesus loves you too. And the other person on the other side of the aisle might say, well, where was Jesus? Why didn't he love me when my parents were kicking me out or my parents were getting a divorce or when I was being, you know, essayed or whatever. Like there's.

And that's. That's when you. That's when you open. That's the open conversation.

Somebody open conversation. That's what I'm trying to tell you. Like, context matters, nuance. Those are all things that matter. And so if you're dealing with somebody's culture, there's shock for shock value, and then there's shock for getting your attention and waking you up. And I think that it's really important.

Even going back to the tracks Though, like, it's one thing to drop a track in somebody's face, and it's another to leave a track on a table, right? Like, to leave a track on a table, it's not. It's not being thrown in your face, but somebody might see it at the right time. I know that's what I'm saying is that there is a difference, right?

You really like it?

I really like it when people leave them at the gas station. Because you know what? Actually, of all the places I see people leave tracks behind, somebody will put one up there and I'm like, I used to be back and forth on it, but right now I think that's my favorite place to see. See one. Because oftentimes, like when you're sitting there getting gas, you got no time but to think and maybe look around a bit. And if you're going to be like, things are going on in my life, and you look up and you see that the right one at the right time could make a difference. I think I agree with a lot what you say. The thing is this. Most. If you're going to proselytize at any time, if you're trying to get the gospel apart to someone else, right. It's all about the right opening. Because basically none of us are gonna accept anything unless we're open to it. None of us are gonna accept anything unless we're open to it. And so you're right. So for like if your friend is, you know, roller skating, someone comes up, hands a track and walks away or rolls away like, that's. That's you, right?

That's cold.

That's contextless. It's.

It's.

It's annoying. It's. It's because. Especially because that's. They're not open to that. And maybe they would have, even if not saying they were. But let's say maybe they would have if they. If you'd have had a conversation, you had a shared a popcorn, something like that. Crazy. Where it's like, oh, and by the way, this maybe, but you're right. Sometimes I think there's a lot of people we see out there in a lot of different ways that are trying to do this and we get the heart behind it. And I can really. I can appreciate the zealousness in some ways. And sometimes the urgency. I think these things aren't so bad. I think sometimes there's some misguidedness on how we take some approaches because some of these things is like, what do you think is the actual. What do you think you're getting from this? What's the fruit from this? Are you getting fruit from this or do you think you're just scaring people off? We ought to be thinking about the ways that we go about trying to share the gospel, the ways we go about trying to share the, the love and the truth that we know. But we got to do so with respect in relationship. Relationship is the number one way. You know, I have friends of mine that, that still are resilient. We'll say at the least to, to trying to accept the things that I'm trying to tell them, but they're at least willing to have that conversation. And I just look for the right ways, the right context to bring it up. Like, if they bring in, if we get into a discussion where this is genuinely a time I can bring this in. Perfect. I get excited about it, you know, I'm going to bring it in, but I'm not trying to bash people over the heads with it.

Right.

Because Jesus knew we have heart conditions. If you read John, just the book of John, in the end of chapter two, Jesus, it said that Jesus knew their heart conditions. And depending on their heart condition is whether he would reveal things to them or not.

Right?

Sure. You know, in the same way, if we can understand and see that someone's willing to have the conversation with us or not, even if they're willing to have the conversation, just humorous, that makes a big difference on whether we're just going to start hitting them with things. You know, I mean, I appreciate a lot of things people do, but sometimes is it really going to produce fruit or not? You know, like, if you genuinely care and show people that this is real, this is how this is. This is real to me, you know, and, you know, it's not just something. It's not just trying to get some people in the door.

Right.

And it's not about trying to get a few more bucks. But that doesn't always. By the way, more people in the door doesn't always equal more bucks.

That is very true, but like, that is very, very true.

But like, it's not about that. It's not about trying to grow our numbers or anything crazy like that. When people see that, no, this is something that's a real full conviction in my life. It changes. It changes everything. You know, the whole reason that you see the church grow in the blooms that it has had over the centuries is because of conviction. The first church, it changed people. The fact that these people were willing to die and be tortured and be Persecuted for the fact that they were saying these things that changed minds. Like, hold on, you guys are serious? You really think this happened? And so it opens up when the church is persecuted. Think about what's happened in China. China, a few years back went, all right, we're pretty much done with this Christianity thing. And yet the church was growing under that. Why? Because the people there are like, look, we understand this is illegal now, but we can't turn our back on this. And that changes people's minds and hearts. Wait, you mean you really believe it? I'm at least willing to hear you out on why. You know, an earnest person will. When we're fake to ourselves, it's going up to random people. We don't know if they're even gonna be willing to accept us as a person, let alone what things are coming out of our mouths.

And that's true. And I think when you're doing, for example, perfect example, street evangelism, right. And street evangelism when I was growing up looked very different than when I think about street evangelism now. Street evangelism when I was growing up was the sidewalk prophets, the ones who were on the microphones screaming, saying, jesus loves you, you need Jesus, get saved. But you know, and the end is nigh. Whatever they were, you know. Yeah, exactly. Sandwich board preachers. That's what I grew up with. Right. Okay. Now when I got older and when I went into college, because I, I went to Bible college to become a pastor before I converted. So I.

To become a pastor, I was, I.

Was studying to become a pastor.

So.

But wait, hold on, because you just said before you converted to Christianity.

Before I converted to Messianic Judaism.

Okay, so you were four square.

I grew up four square Christian.

Okay.

Yeah. It's a very long Pentecostal. No, it's a very long, complicated story. And I'm not going to go down that trail just now because we're in the middle of a topic.

Sure, yeah.

But if you bring me back on, I'll be happy to tell you my story.

There's the hook.

So anyway, anyway. But when I was in college and we were learning all these different ways of how to evangelize, one of the things that we learned was evangelism means nothing without relationship. So when you're going up to somebody on the street, you still have to have a relationship with that person you're walking up to. And what that means is if I'm walking up to somebody who, for all intents and purposes, I'm looking at them I can infer that they are homeless, unhoused, whatever the modern term is homeless.

I worked with the homeless for three or four years.

So, you know, whatever. If I walk up to somebody that is in that demographic and I say to them, you know, hey, aren't you sick and tired of having all these bills and stuff like that? I'm not really creating a relationship, am I? But if I say to them, hey, I can see that times are really tough right now, Can I help you somehow? Can I build that relationship with you by showing you that I care? Regardless of the situation you're at right now, I want to show you that I care. Alternatively, if the person is not outwardly like, oh, I know this person is homeless, let's just say it's just a person walking down the street and you're there with your group and you're praying and you're saying, lord, help me. You know, help direct me to support somebody I can pray with. And you walk up to a group of people, different ages, different genders, whatever, and you say, hey, guys, we're with, you know, we're with XYZ Church, and we're here on the street praying for people, is there something we can pray for you on? You know, you've already opened a door to a relationship that is potentially a relationship because you're coming from a point of caring. You're saying, I want to pray with you. The one thing I cannot stand that they tried to teach in Bible college and they did it all the time, even when they were doing other things, is the whole bait and switch, where you walk up and say, hey, can you answer some survey questions about God? I can't stand it. I hate the bait and switch. Be honest. Tell me what you're really coming up to me for. Don't give me the whole. Can you fill out the survey about God and tell me, oh, you don't believe in Jesus? Here, let me tell you why you should. No, I can't stand that. I can't stand it. I need honesty. And I think that the generation, my kids generation and my generation downward, we want blatant honesty. Just tell me what you want and don't beat around the bush.

I think. I think it's. There's levels to where I think. I don't want to call it gray area, but I think there's some things that sometimes kind of resemble some of the things that we don't like but are also very useful. So, for instance, yeah, I don't like bait and switches either. It's not really. I don't want to trick people into listening to the gospel, so to speak. However. However, I do purposely wear things that I. That are. In ways of invitation, they're provoking. Yeah. So like this hat, for instance. I've. Since I bought this hat, I've had people ask me, what is that?

Yeah, I did. I was gonna ask my hat, it.

Has a K and a W, and it stands for kingdom worker. So now I have opportunity to go, oh, it's kingdom worker. And then, oh, yeah, I'm a pastor. And, you know, this is why I'm not. You know, when you talk about it.

You'Re not hiding who you are. You're not. No.

But there's the bait. There's the bait waiting for you to take the hook.

It's not a switch.

But what it is, what we're really looking for. What we're really. It's not about bait necessarily. It's about an invitation.

Right.

And so what these things do. It's an invitation for someone to ask the question. It's an invitation to, let's start a conversation. And you know what? There's things that I like. There's the people who. I don't necessarily agree with them, okay? So I'm not gonna name who they are, but there are people that go. And they have this little stand of brochures and stuff. It's like, would you like to know how to study the Bible?

Oh, my God.

So you know who I'm talking about. So, like, now, listen, I actually really appreciate that approach. I do.

Why?

I appreciate that approach. Not their belief system of those exact people, but, like, I appreciate that approach because there's an invitation, and all a person has to do is accept so that. Accept. I do really like that, because it's not. They're not really trying to beat someone over the head with it, but they are also going, look, I'm here. And I like now. If they're standing there yelling at people.

That'S a big difference.

Yeah, yeah.

I've had people. Hold on.

Okay, sorry.

People go so far with this kind of so close with the crazy. I think there's sometimes where the zealousness turns into craziness. And I've seen people go so far with the crazy where I'm like, do you even realize what you're doing? I went. I took my daughter a year ago now to a winter jam up in Tampa, and it's awesome. Winter jam is a whole day of worshiping God. And there's bands there. And just A lot of praise music, and it's such an amazing experience. And if you're looking to connect with other Christians, just sing your hearts out together. It's a great place. That being said, we got there a little early, and it didn't take me long to be like, you're doing it wrong. So there was a guy. No, no, I'm serious. And it wasn't the people. So we got there a little early because we had whatever special passes that we get in early. And there's a guy out there, he's got his little tent and he's got his little people there, and he's got a megaphone and he's yelling at everyone there. He's yelling at everyone there because not far from where we were, apparently there's a facility where they perform abortions. And look, I share his heart with. I feel like that what's going on there is wrong. I agree it's wrong. What's going on there. I don't like what's going on there. I do think we need to continue to try to such things in the proper ways and channels. But to sit there and yell at people who are coming here to worship God, and maybe even you're bringing people who maybe aren't even Christian that are coming to experience this with you. This isn't a great event. And you're gonna yell at them like, what are you doing? This isn't. You're completely. Like, you feel that strongly. What are you doing besides yelling at Christians? Like, that's not how you do it. That's not how you do it.

Well, that's what I was going to say earlier. The analogy of, like, you know, we're saying, we're Christians, we want to. So we want to help people be saved. And there's an urgency. So, you know, there's always the lifesaver analogy of Christians trying to save people. But it's so funny. But, you know, there are some Christians that are throwing the. Casting what they think is the life preserver out, but then they're going, no, you're swimming wrong to the life preserver. It's like. It's like, no, our job is just to throw it, cast it out. We're not supposed to judge on how you swim to it or get to it. And even with the parable of the Good Samaritan, the person that does the saving, he doesn't say, hey, what are you doing? I'm just coming here just to save you. I'm picking you up. I see you're in need I see you're hurting. Let me pick you up, take care of you. There are no pre qualifiers for that.

It's like people that think that they have to get healthy before they go.

To the hospital, but also, but in the same thing, I think like when.

You go to the hospital until you're bleeding, nearly dead and then you go.

But I think the other thing to touch on though is when you, when we were talking about tracks and everything like that, and I think there are some Christians and it's going to sound really bad and it's probably going to open up a big can of worms, but is. I think there's some Christians that do that kind of thing. Even like, you know, just like, even the running up, it's, it's. I don't want to say it's a checkbox, but it's a feel. It's a feel good, like kind of like self fulfilling, like feel good. It's like, I was a good Christian today. I get handed out a track, oh, I witnessed to this person. And it's more of a self gratification kind of thing versus versus trying to do that because they're doing it to help them be like, I was a good Christian today. And so it's more about them feeling good. You just, just. And if we took that out of Christianity, just like all these different things of times where, you know, there's a charity that says, hey, we need your help or something like that. And so I'm like, well, here's 20 bucks. Have fun with it. But nobody's willing to like go to that charity and get their hands dirty and like commit to it. The same thing with Christianity. I think there's a lot of times where we want to do the easy thing and just like so handing a track on like, Jesus loves you and then. But not getting our hands dirty and getting into where the help is actually needed and stuff like that.

Reminds me of the kinds of churches that are. They do outreach different. What they do is instead of, you know, they could be surrounded by a community that needs their help, but they're sticky and they're little unorthodox and they're a little rough around the edges. And so they're like, we're gonna do outreach, we're gonna help out communities, we're gonna go, they want one over there, right? Why are you going over there? Because they're not gonna come into your church. It's like, well, that's not the way to do it. You're helping people. Yeah, but you're carefully skipping over the people that you could help and bring into your church and help bring them up. But if you did that, then your church might look different or sound different or feel different, and you might not have that feel good feeling that you love having every time you walk in the door. And your youth group might not look like, so nice, just perfect little angel, wholesome kids, which is what I hope my youth group looks like. And it's like, yeah, that's what will happen. And that's the best thing that can happen because that means you're actually making a difference. That means you're actually getting opportunities you were never going to get before. And yet some people just kind of like things as perfect little boxes that they have them in and to disturb that. It's like, well, I want to go work, but I don't want to mess up what I got going on.

Exactly.

At the same time, the opposite extreme is also true a lot where we're like, oh, well, let's bring in everybody and we'll just. Let's make sure they feel comfortable and feel good. And that then waters down what the truth is. Right. And we don't want to go that far. And I'm not saying. I'm just saying, like, the opposite is also a true thing.

For what happens there oftentimes is you'll have people. They're the. Get them in the door churches. And look, I applaud the ones that are really great at getting people in the doors. Wonderful. But you can't just be that, because then what happens is people, as they mature as a Christian, they start feeling like they're on their own, like they're not getting fed. You're right. And look, there is a point in time where we need to go from the milk to the meat and get. But, like. But we need guidance a lot of times in that. We need the shepherds and the pastors to go, all right, yes. I want you to go deeper. Our messages shouldn't be watered down. Like, should they be somewhat friendly to people that have never heard before? Yes. But there should maybe be something in there for people that have. So that everybody's getting something from the experience. You know, I think I'll let you go just one second. You and I are gonna struggle for this. I'm glad there's more than one microphone ripping it from each other. But I think. I think, you know, when I was in undergrad, before I went, you know, to seminary and all that stuff, one of the things that I thought was incredibly useful about Preparing a message or a lesson for a group of people is, it was explained to me, you cross the bridge twice. You start with the people, you understand who they are, you build relationship with them, their needs, their wants, their struggles. You take all that over the bridge with you and you don't take that and put it into the Bible, but you take it and you hold it and you see what the Bible has to say to those people. You figure out what it needs to say exactly to the people you brought with you and then you take that message back to those people. So you cross the bridge twice. I think it's brilliant because we need to make sure that we have them in mind. And sometimes that means it's people that have never heard the gospel before. And how can we say something that helps the click? And these people have though. And so they need something that's going to keep them going and feeling motivated. And I'm not trying to pander, so to speak, but we are looking to shepherd them and feed them and guide them forward. Now do I agree that you got to start taking some responsibility and control and ownership of your faith? Absolutely. I think that you should start self study. I think that you should be willing to go, well, nobody's got a Bible study. Then I'll start the Bible study. Or who can we get to start the ask the questions, help push the issue. But you don't want to leave them as infants.

That's actually what I was about to tell you. Right. So yes, churches have a responsibility to get butts in the seats right in the set. Wait, let me explain.

You gotta watch your wording.

We're to the splaining already.

They call me the controversial couple for a reason. Okay, so listen, we do need to get butts in the seats to the respect of getting people to come into the door so they can hear the word of God. Okay, so it's a very short, blunt way of saying we need to bring people into the house of the Lord. Okay, now here's the thing that I've noticed with a lot of these big churches, and I don't just mean the mega churches, I mean churches that are more than 120 people. Sometimes you'll have, let's bring them in, bring them in, bring them in. But there's no program, there's no follow up, there's just, oh, awesome, yes, you came to the front. Here's your Bible, here's a list of groups that we offer, and have a great day, here's your coffee and we'll see you Next week.

Okay.

There's no. Exactly. No follow up. Exactly what I'm saying. There's no follow up. So the problem that I find is, or not a problem, I should say the solution I think is where we have to actually create a, create a team of follow ups. Where people will say, hey listen, we want you to dive in deeper. There's a discipleship group. Here's the discipleship group. Then from that discipleship group, it's okay. From the discipleship group, there's also going to be a Bible study group that is specific to your struggles and your needs. There's a support group for you. We have to create a sense of community. That's how you get people saved and they stay within that Christian mindset. That's how it happens. It's building the community is part of salvation. Yes.

I both agree and disagree. Okay, so I don't disagree technically, right? I don't technically disagree with what you said, but I think that something that I would even challenge our listeners and everyone in this room on is that if there's somebody that's new wherever you're attending, right. It's your responsibility to go say hi and make them welcome. It's your responsibility as a part of it. Now if somebody else is doing it. I'm not saying crowd the person, I'm not saying overwhelm the person, right. As a churchgoer, but as a churchgoer, it is your responsibility to make them feel welcome. How many churches out there make you feel like I wasn't even noticed? Right? And I know some people don't want to be noticed at first. Right? Like I get that. But that's our responsibility is to make sure that they feel welcome. Right. Whatever that looks like. So that should be the first thing. Right. The second thing is then it's your responsibility to further the relationship. However that looks. Maybe that's not the two of you are the ones that build the relationship, but maybe it's handing off to the person that really would work well with that person after getting to know them. So that facilitating other people getting together in relationship, that's all of ours responsibility.

But that requires empathy, which is something that is holding hard concept for some people. And I don't want to be disparaging against churches, but I've noticed it's a hard concept for some people in churches to create a sense of empathy beyond what they were raised with. I was raised in a very Pentecostal kind of not holiness, but like a very Pentecostal lifestyle. So we were speaking in Tongues. We were dancing. We were very shouty, you know, very crazy kind of people. And that carried over into our everyday life. We would, oh, you. You fell down and got a scrape. Put some. Put some cream on it, and let's speak in tongues over it, you know, and then we'll shout the devil away. You know, things like that. But no but like, you know what I'm saying, like, it's somebody like me. At that time, I couldn't have empathy. I was stuck in my own little world trying to keep up with the cultures and what I'm supposed to do and what I'm supposed to say. Today's church has to teach from the youngest to the oldest, empathy for the people who are walking in, because you're not gonna know where they're at. That person may be struggling with an addiction or they just may be really, really depressed or they may just have had a horrible day or, you know, they're putting on their masking because they don't want to show everybody their mental illness. Like, there are so many things. And empathy goes such a long way beyond just the handing you the Bible. Thank you. From coming to the front. And that empathy is what's going to create the relationship. That's why I say community is part of salvation. It's not what's going to save you. Right. But it's part of the act of being saved is having and creating community.

I agree.

Good.

But let's think about what the number something that's incredibly important when it comes to community. When it comes to relationships, the same word is investment. And see, the thing is, is that investment doesn't change. If you're investing in getting kid people in the door, then you have to invest in them when they get here. Like you said, you need to invest in them throughout their journey. And so there needs to be ways that you do that. There needs to be ways in which you can recognize them. One of the problems once it. Once a church gets to a certain size, one of the problems is that it's easy to start getting lost in the crowd because it starts to get too big. Pastors, some really great pastors, have an uncanny ability to start to know everyone and to know them by their names and their families. And it can be difficult. For me, I learn more and more as I go. For some, it's like they seem to remember everyone all the time. And the thing is that we want. When anyone walks into a church, they should feel known, they should feel seen, and they should feel known. This is part of the investment that we're making. And yes, it starts at the pastor of the church, leadership of the staff, but it needs to be something that the whole church also gets involved in and takes ownership of as well. We're pouring into each other. That's the church. It's not a pastor, it's not a building, it's not just a staff, it's everyone that comes in the door encouraging one another. Because we're all human and we're all on this journey together and we need to recognize those who are newer and help them, encourage them. And we need to recognize those who are more veteran and not only encourage them forward, but look to them to go, alright, I need you to help us as we bring up this next group. And if we're all doing that together, then we start to look like something that's really important. That's called being the body of Christ where we're all taking part and we're taking ownership of us. Yeah, one's a foot and one's an eye. But you know what, that's a good, great eye and that's a great foot and we are on the right way.

Great looking foot.

You realize that you literally just said the exact same thing I said.

I know, but I'm rephrasing it to the point.

No, he's not, he's rephrasing it.

I rephrased it. So I know what you're saying. I'm just, that's what I do is I take everything, including scripture and I try to make it digestible.

Digestible.

I think. Go ahead, go ahead.

Okay.

Yeah.

So I think this is where we struggle the most is when somebody goes down, they give their life to Jesus. They think that this is the reset button and starting today my life's gonna be so much better. After two weeks, when their life doesn't change much because their perspective hasn't changed, then they go, this didn't work and they leave. Right. So of course then your natural thing is, okay, well we need to have a bunch of follow up teams. Okay, well now you're getting into the weeds of like, well, this person's brand new, they don't know anything. But this person who came in and rededicated their life has vast knowledge. They need something more than just a beginner's course, they need a little more detailed. So before you know it, all of a sudden you're into this thing where you need to have 14 different classes set up for this vast number of people and it starts to feel very overwhelming. But also to your point, I think there's a. When you're talking about, well, when they come in, they need to know, we have this and we have this and we have this and we have this. And all of a sudden, now you've got this kid walking through school that has all these books stacked up going, how am I ever going to read all this stuff? And it starts to feel like this is way too much. I didn't sign up for this, and they want to take off. So it's.

It's a matter of knowing your audience, too, don't you think? Because if I'm a new. If I'm a baby Christian, baby believer, and I come in the church and I. And I know John 3:16 and Genesis 1:1, that's all I know. That's all I ever know. But that's what I'm saying. Like, that's the only thing I know of the Bible is those. Those two verses, right? So you talking to me after I've dedicated my life or whatever, talking to me as a person and saying, tell me about your walk. Tell me about your life, getting to know me. You're going to know that I don't need to be in the level 27 class. You're going to know, hey, maybe you would be good to be in a discipleship class. Well, we don't have a discipleship. That's okay. I or I will help find somebody to pour into you and disciple you. You don't need to have a class. It doesn't have to be this huge structure. If you have leadership in your church and you have authority from your elders and from the leadership in the church, to be able to take people under your wing as, like, a mentor, and you have that permission. I use that word very importantly. If you have that covering and that permission, there is no reason for it to be complicated. Your kid doesn't have to walk down the hallway with 20 books. He can literally walk down with just his Bible and say, I'm being taken care of. I'm being guided. I'm not gonna get lost in the shuffle.

What were you gonna say?

Well, I was gonna talk about empathy.

But I got a thought, so. Well, the card originally was, how do we as Christians approach culture, different cultures?

We're really not. We're really not.

I'm just the rabbit. I'm the king of bringing you back from the side quest. So that is my task. So I will bring you back from the side quest. So my question is to make it a little more challenging, because that was kind of vague. So how do we, as Christians or as church leaders or as a church in general, really approach the cultures that, especially in America that we are now by a lot of things being, you know, having conflicts with. So, you know, so we're talking about LGBTQ community, the, the people that are Muslim and stuff like that. So the way the news and everything is painting everything right now, it's. It's kind of like an us versus them. So how do we reach those people? I mean, we obviously don't want to leave them to the side and walk past them as they're injured on the side of the road. You know, obviously God wants them saved as well. And so. And obviously it's a more challenging way to witness versus somebody that looks like us, sounds like us, and to talk to them.

But the cool answer to that question is exactly the same as what we've been talking about, because it's. Having that relationship with that person is where that's going to all happen. You can't, it's. It's not gonna happen just willy nilly. It's not gonna happen with us, you know, throwing arguments back and forth. Unless that's an arena in which, you know, both people thrive in, to like, to grow. It's an agreed upon, a growth thing. Like for me, arguing over things actually helps me process things. Right? So for me, that's a growth center. Right. For a lot of people, that's not a thing. I know, I know.

But the problem I see is like, some people aren't even our Christians aren't able to get past that empathy, get to that empathy stage. Because either from the pulpit, from our own personal views, from our raising, whatever, we develop this viewpoint of people that are not what we would consider the quote, unquote norm. And like I said, that can be a lot of different things. But they're the more difficult people to love. You know, let's just take drug addicts or something like that, or hardcore alcoholics. Somebody that's really doing something that makes us potentially feel uncomfortable as the safe little Christian in our little world. And what can we teach to our congregants? You know, like I said. I know you said empathy, but. But we obviously have to try to find something that will break down those walls, those restrictions that we're afraid to get past, or just in the way that we're teaching, like what kind of message are we conveying as leaders to that? Because it's very easy to say what they're doing is sinful, which is agreeable. Everybody is doing sinful things. And the problem is, is that a lot of church leaders don't want to say the quiet parts. You know, the fact that, you know, like I said, the one that blew my mind was that there was a study when we were going to college that said, you know, in an entire congregation. So of like a congregation of 200 people, 63% of the men actively look at online pornography. But nobody's going to know it because it's a quiet part, right? Nobody's going to acknowledge it because it's a quiet part.

Right?

But the fact that it's there. And so in the same way, you know, how do we get our church to address those quiet parts that those objections of, like, oh, they're committing this, you know, oh, this is an of model. And she wants to come to church, you know, like, like Nala Rae. So she was an of model. She got saved. Who's that? How are we? Because there were some people like, oh, she's not real Christian. And you know, and stuff like that. For the longest time, like when, when she first converted and said, I'm converted, I'm converted, you had Christian voices out there saying, oh, she ain't real. She's gonna turn around.

I think we can look at scripture.

Man pride and arrogance to that for sure.

If we look at scripture, Peter and the other disciples did the same thing to Paul, right? Like, whoa, whoa, not that guy. That guy couldn't be, you know, and Paul ended up reaching all of us Gentiles, right? Like the non Jewish side of everything. So I think that it's important to man wwjd, right? What would Jesus do? And the conversation. We had a conversation. Well, not we, but you were in the room yesterday about. There was the conversation that had to do with homosexuality. And you know, my refusal, right. My refusal to.

Very clear.

I was not in my refusal to go to a friend's wedding, right. And one of the things that it prompted me to think is what would Jesus have done? I don't think that he would have done something different necessarily. I'm still digging, but it's caused me to dig. Right. And so if we put everything through a lens of how would Jesus have approached this person in this situation or if this person walked up to Jesus, how can I show them Jesus in this moment? The first thing that would probably not happen is showing them their sin, right? Like, honestly, that's a conversation that needs to be had at some point.

Agree.

But that's with somebody who has the relationship with them, right? That relationship needs to have been built. And as I say a lot on this podcast, you can't clean a whole house at the same time. Right? It's one piece at a time. And Jesus is the one that's directing the path of what. What's getting cleaned up next, Right. So I think that it's important to. To focus on, okay, how can I love this person to start, right? Let's build that relationship. And then whenever all of that stuff ends up coming together, it comes together. Right? Like that's. I think that's what we need to teach is, is not love only, because obviously there, there is a penalty to sin and people that too. I think we've gotten too far in that love only. And it's caused the division in the church, quote unquote today. But I think that we need to teach the correct way to love. And I think that's looking through the lens of Jesus and get to know him better. Start with the book of John, right? Get to know him better.

I think that's a good approach. Yeah. I mean, Jesus would. Well, we start with trying to find a way to connect with someone, and then we can't be so arrogant as to think that we know what they need to work on first.

100% agree.

I think that's ridiculous. I think there's too many times we're trying to control the uncontrollable and know the unknowable. And our pride and arrogance makes us make decisions on things that we have no business getting being a part of. When we think about our own personal goals or our own personal faith walk. Okay, if we're going through our faith walk and if we can look at our lives and go, hey, you know what? In the last six months, if we can say, I think I've grown deeper in my faith and I think I've got a better relationship with God than I've ever had, and we go, okay, now if we are willing to go back and go, but was there sin involved during that time? Was I doing things that I shouldn't have been doing that time? Yes. Well, obviously there's things in my life that God thought was more important to work on with me at that time than those other things, Will he get to it? Maybe he will. Maybe that is something that's on the next chapter for me. But how are we going to compare maybe our page 36 to someone's page 1? We can't. God is going to look at someone and know exactly what they need to work on first. Let's say someone does Struggle with any lifestyle, Right. We're quick to pick out one or the other, but maybe even someone who has a problem not cheating on spouses. Sure, okay, let's look at them. But yet they're. Somehow they're coming to terms with who Jesus is in their lives and is starting to turn them around. And yet they went into that relationship, they cheated again, and we want to really bang them on the head for that. But yet somehow they're trusting him more with the money. And God's going, well, this is where an area. I know, I'm getting to that. But I need him to trust me before I can get him to trust me with this. You know what I mean?

Let me tag onto that, because an easy question to go to is, well, when do I know when it's okay to then point that out? Right? And that is when they've come to you and said, hey, this is a struggle of mine, you know, this is a struggle of mine. And I need. I'm working on it. And I need, you know, that accountability. Yeah, I think that everyone should be in accountability. Every single person should be in accountability. We cannot do it alone.

Exactly.

Can't pound that into you guys enough on there. We need to land this plane. So go ahead. No, no, no, go ahead.

I was just gonna agree with you about everyone needs accountability. And I think just to. Just to pound it into you also do it. That. That is part of salvation, is having that community. Community creates the accountability because you start developing those relationships. And so for me.

It'S.

It's. It's easy to say, oh, everyone needs accountability. But if I don't have anyone next to. To me who's coming alongside me, pouring into me, creating that sense of community, that sense of belonging, which we all want, then there's not going to be an accountability because I'm not going to trust anybody else with my struggles.

And I want to get more specific because you said. You said that's a part of salvation. I just want to be. I want to be. I want to be clear on. I do want to be clear on it, though. Like, there's not the process.

Salvation.

Hang on. So it is part of the process of salvation. Let me clarify. Just trust me, all right?

We don't have a relationship.

Trust me. You have a chair on my podcast, right? You gotta trust me to some degree. There's different parts of salvation, though. There's the justification part, right? That's not the part we're talking about. We're talking about sanctification, the process of Becoming perfected through Jesus. Right. And then glorification is the. Once he's made you perfect. So I just want to clarify when she says it's part of salvation. Absolutely. It's the sanctification part of it. He's making us perfect. He's getting us ready for the day that we get to be with him and rule together as one people.

It's part of walking out the salvation that is the easiest way. Salvation for me is more than just a decision. It's an entire process. Part of the process is a lifelong process. You're constantly being saved in the sense of, like, I've been saved from sin and death because I accepted Jesus. So now what? So now I have to continue to live out that salvation, that show and prove that I'm actually taking it seriously by allowing the Holy Spirit to work through me, by creating community and accepting accountability, accepting correction. And if I stumble, having somebody there to help pick me up. And these are all things to me that are part of the sanctification process.

Yeah, I agree. I agree.

Great. Somebody agreed with me.

I'm so happy now. Final thoughts. Brian, go.

Okay.

And plug your stuff again. Yes, please.

No, that's fine.

Ask us to take your pictures for cheap.

Yeah, that's our plug. We'll just take your headshot, your pictures for your webpage. There you go. But no, I think really final thoughts on this is just in regards to Christianity and culture is, like we said, really. It's being able to go beyond our comfort zone and go beyond our lines and borders. Like I said, the Good Samaritan was all about not looking at who he was, not looking at who the person is, and just looking about seeing the fact that a person needs help. And so I know sometimes that we may get uncomfortable looking at somebody that needs help and not knowing how to help them. But just being able to say, I don't know what to do, but I'm here to help you, I think, speaks more volumes about Christianity than anything else.

Yep. I think my final thoughts are that it's the same thing. If you're going to reach out to anybody of a different culture, go in there with a intention of learning and understanding and less of an intention of, I need to just hurry up and get them saved. You know, if it's an urgent situation to where you know that something that you know, the Lord leads you, like, you need to say something right now. Obviously you want to be obedient, but I think that it's also important that if you don't have that Leading get to know somebody before you just try to shock their entire culture by throwing in something that is new to them.

Yeah, I think that that's really good. It's important for us to remember that we're not the ones that does the changing. Right.

Yep, that's it. No, no, no. I have like a million things. We probably could go on for four hours. It's like. But I think the. The biggest thing that I get that I get stuck on is I've always had the opinion that the majority of churches tend to do discipleship wrong. That we spend all of our time and energy chasing people who we think need to be discipled, as opposed to when I need discipleship, I raise my hand and I say, I need help.

Right.

And we need to encourage the people to stop sitting there going, please, somebody find me. It's like, there are plenty of people you can go to. So I encourage those people to get up and raise your hand and say, I need help. And that's where the personal development starts. As far as plugs go, I definitely want to. I definitely want to plug. So Zelika imagery is part of our elevate networks that we started. So Network of S WFL.com is the website that we have up and running. And Elevate networks is growing much faster than I ever thought it would. We launched a chapter in Cape Coral in Winter Haven. We're going to launch one in Fort Myers up in Sarasota. And the women's one. Yep. So it is. It's exploding. So if there are any local contractors, go to networkofswfl.com and find all of our information Elevate networks.

Perfect.

Working for you.

What do you got, man?

Just kind of reiterating when I started at the beginning, you know, God loves you and he loves every other one of them, too. And with that in mind, you deserve dignity and respect. So treat others with dignity and respect. And when you start with that, then you can get progress anywhere else.

That's great. That's great.

Amen to that.

I do have an update that I have to share, and that is we are having a live in person recording for our 250th episode. I know you guys can't see me, so you can't see the excitement that I really feel inside. But yeah, I'm bubbling. So we are going to be having it April 24 from 6 to 9. Doors open at 6. It'll be at Rise Christian Church, 50 Bell Boulevard. There will be tickets that are free. It's free, but I need you to get tickets so that we know how much finger food to get, because we're gonna get some finger food, we're gonna have some prizes, that sort of thing. So. But tickets are gonna be on an eventbrite, so there'll be a link in all of the things and places in the description below. Yeah, no, all of the things and the places. That's how we say things center in here. We don't, you know, you guys know. You guys know. And for those of you who don't know, you know.

So ask somebody who does, raise your hand.

So there's gonna be some cool announcements that we're gonna be some new things happening, and we just. We can't wait. So it's gonna be a fun night of memory and fellowship and just running down where we've been to where we're going to, even maybe even taking some topics from you guys and doing it live there. So.

So it's gonna be a live broadcast.

It's gonna be. It's gonna be live on stage. On stage. People in person, like, audience, like, all of the interaction. So we're gonna be out there.

Are we gonna have guest speakers?

We are gonna have guest speakers. I haven't figured all of that out yet.

She's casting. She's casting.

Nothing. Not. Nothing to spite or anything, but we have a lot of people from the past that we are trying to invite in to kind of celebrate the show as we've gone. So, yeah, if we can work newer guests in, that would be great, but I don't want to make any promises.

Right. No, that's. That's just her style.

No, we totally. We totally loved having you guys on, and we totally want you guys to come back. I just don't know if we can wiggle you into that one just yet. So maybe at 300.

I can wiggle.

I can wiggle.

So. All right, guys, thank you so much for all that you guys do for us. Don't forget, we have a Patreon where you can get a couple extra goodies, some devotions that go along with the conversation for the day. And. Yeah, please, please join us. We're at 95, last I checked. 95 on YouTube. So we're just going with it. It's enough. It's enough. Invite all your people, you know, to get tickets. Dude, 500 would be crazy, right?

That's the goal. Get to 500 first, then the thousand, then a million.

That's right.

Wow, that's.

That's exciting. So she thinks, big thank you guys for loving of us, loving us, sticking with us and for everything. So God bless.

Thanks for putting up with me.

Hey, thanks for joining us. Make sure to subscribe and give us a like on itunes and Spotify so that you will never miss a show. And while you're at it, check out our Facebook and Instagram pages and make sure you tell your friends about this show. You don't want them to miss out on the truth because we are all about the truth here. Thanks for joining us this week and God bless.