1 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,940 Host: Jenni Catron has a knack and a love and a passion for 2 00:00:24,060 --> 00:00:27,990 putting feet to vision, as she says, and making vision reality. 3 00:00:28,170 --> 00:00:30,750 She has had this book, and I've known about it for several 4 00:00:30,750 --> 00:00:35,280 months, called Clout, discover and unleash your God given 5 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,510 influence. So without further ado, please help me welcome the 6 00:00:39,510 --> 00:00:42,870 one and only miss Jenni Catron, Jenni, thanks so much for being 7 00:00:42,870 --> 00:00:43,320 with us. 8 00:00:43,470 --> 00:00:45,930 Jenni Catron: Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to 9 00:00:45,990 --> 00:00:48,570 share a little bit more about the book. Thank you so much. 10 00:00:48,660 --> 00:00:49,350 This is awesome. 11 00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:51,570 Host: You know, why did you write this book? Like, where did 12 00:00:51,570 --> 00:00:53,640 the idea come from? How did you get started? 13 00:00:53,850 --> 00:00:55,740 Jenni Catron: Yeah, yeah. You know, I've always been a 14 00:00:55,740 --> 00:00:59,100 leadership junkie. Like, I don't know that even as a kid, I knew 15 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:02,550 how to what the word was, but I knew what leadership looked 16 00:01:02,550 --> 00:01:06,390 like, and it was something that I was really drawn to. So, you 17 00:01:06,390 --> 00:01:08,730 know, so I think just my whole life, I've kind of aspired to 18 00:01:08,730 --> 00:01:11,880 understanding leadership and what helps leaders tick, and, 19 00:01:12,210 --> 00:01:14,880 you know, how we influence others, and what that looks 20 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:19,140 like. And so this book, clout really is, is a lot of my heart 21 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:21,870 kind of in written form of like the things that I wished I had 22 00:01:21,870 --> 00:01:24,960 known as a leader earlier on that so maybe that I wouldn't 23 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:28,590 have misstepped, you know, in some certain ways along the way 24 00:01:28,590 --> 00:01:32,070 and clout, discover and unleash your God. Given influence is 25 00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:35,550 just that idea that leadership begins with influence. You know, 26 00:01:35,550 --> 00:01:38,040 I think John Maxwell is quoted with saying, leadership is 27 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,550 influence, nothing more, nothing less. And I'll often push back 28 00:01:41,550 --> 00:01:44,340 on that a little bit to go. I think leadership starts with 29 00:01:44,340 --> 00:01:49,410 influence, but how we steward that influence impacts what how 30 00:01:49,410 --> 00:01:53,250 we're able to really live out our leadership. So, you know? So 31 00:01:53,250 --> 00:01:56,100 this was, to me, was, well, what is the core of influence look 32 00:01:56,100 --> 00:01:58,920 like? So if leadership starts with influence, what does it 33 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:02,160 mean to really develop that influence, develop that clout, 34 00:02:02,190 --> 00:02:06,000 if you will, that gives us the platform to lead from. And so 35 00:02:06,210 --> 00:02:08,820 this was kind of a journey for me of saying, You know what, I 36 00:02:08,820 --> 00:02:12,090 see a lot of things in my life that are holding me back or 37 00:02:12,090 --> 00:02:15,300 hindering me, tripping me up from really being the leader I 38 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:17,700 should be. And you know, we talk about those in the book, I call 39 00:02:17,700 --> 00:02:21,030 them the clout killers, but then also going, okay, so what do we 40 00:02:21,030 --> 00:02:23,730 do with that? Like, how do we really cultivate our influence? 41 00:02:23,730 --> 00:02:27,690 How do we cultivate our clout in such a way that we can allow 42 00:02:27,690 --> 00:02:31,440 that sphere of influence that we've been given to impact 43 00:02:31,440 --> 00:02:34,500 others, to really allow that to thrive and for that to shine? So 44 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:36,750 that's the heart and the spirit behind the book. 45 00:02:37,110 --> 00:02:40,110 Host: And the seven clout killers, as you call them, are 46 00:02:40,110 --> 00:02:42,780 really transformational, and they're very real, and they're 47 00:02:42,780 --> 00:02:46,020 things that leaders don't even like to admit, that they 48 00:02:46,020 --> 00:02:46,920 struggle with. 49 00:02:47,010 --> 00:02:49,050 Jenni Catron: Yeah, yeah, I think you don't, and that's the 50 00:02:49,050 --> 00:02:51,720 truth. And it's really the thing that stuck out with all of the 51 00:02:51,720 --> 00:02:54,480 clout killers, for me, is, you know, what are the things that I 52 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,510 don't want to admit are there? But we all know that when we 53 00:02:57,510 --> 00:03:01,710 just keep stuffing something we we really aren't dealing with 54 00:03:01,710 --> 00:03:04,770 it. It's, it's, it's affecting us, whether we're recognizing it 55 00:03:04,770 --> 00:03:07,560 or not. And so what I found is I was kind of doing my research 56 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:10,860 for the book, and, you know, my personal stories, stories from 57 00:03:10,860 --> 00:03:13,980 my leadership, other leaders that I kind of studied, I 58 00:03:13,980 --> 00:03:16,680 discovered that this fear issue was really almost kind of the 59 00:03:16,680 --> 00:03:19,200 root. I call it the front runner of all the clout killers. It's 60 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:22,920 like fear triggers all these other things. So I fear that I'm 61 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:25,500 not enough. So I deal with jealousy if you're not having 62 00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:29,100 enough. So I'm deal with scarcity. I fear that I'm not 63 00:03:29,100 --> 00:03:32,010 good enough. So I live with insecurity. Like you see how 64 00:03:32,070 --> 00:03:35,910 just these fear, this fear of different things, impacts our 65 00:03:35,910 --> 00:03:38,880 influence and our our leadership in different ways. So it's 66 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:42,210 really the when I boiled down like anything, like I'm maybe 67 00:03:42,210 --> 00:03:46,890 not engaging, there's usually some fear behind it, like, I 68 00:03:46,890 --> 00:03:50,010 fear chaos, so I grapple for control. And I think a lot of us 69 00:03:50,010 --> 00:03:53,700 as leaders, you know, we like to kind of get a good handle on our 70 00:03:53,700 --> 00:03:57,510 situations, and like to be able to control our world. And 71 00:03:57,540 --> 00:04:00,960 really, that's the fear of chaos, you know. So just so many 72 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:02,730 of these different issues, there's just kind of an 73 00:04:02,730 --> 00:04:07,530 underlying fear all the time of, Am I enough, you know, and and I 74 00:04:07,530 --> 00:04:09,900 think when we kind of just are willing to acknowledge that, 75 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,930 then we position ourselves to be able to grow from it and learn 76 00:04:12,930 --> 00:04:16,110 from it. You know, fear kind of impacts you in different ways. 77 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,950 Sometimes it causes us to hide, sometimes it causes us to 78 00:04:19,950 --> 00:04:22,710 isolate ourselves and kind of close ourselves off, and then 79 00:04:22,710 --> 00:04:25,530 sometimes it just paralyzes us, which, I think for a lot of us 80 00:04:25,530 --> 00:04:28,740 as leaders, it just paralyzes us, you know, I think you've got 81 00:04:28,740 --> 00:04:32,820 to exchange that fear for what's true, you know? And I think 82 00:04:32,820 --> 00:04:35,160 there's a, there's an old quote, I don't know that I actually 83 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:38,100 used it in the book, but you know, what's the, what's the 84 00:04:38,100 --> 00:04:42,210 stat of how, how many of the fears we we have actually don't 85 00:04:42,210 --> 00:04:45,210 happen, right? Like you, we've all heard of that. Of you know, 86 00:04:45,210 --> 00:04:47,310 how many fears that we have actually don't happen. And the 87 00:04:47,310 --> 00:04:50,040 thing that struck up, stuck out to me when I was studying this 88 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,800 and actually looking at some scripture for just biblical 89 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:56,550 foundation for this, was that, you know, I think a lot of times 90 00:04:56,550 --> 00:04:58,980 we want to, we want to believe that we just are going to 91 00:04:58,980 --> 00:05:02,130 overcome fear and. We're never going to face fear. And over and 92 00:05:02,130 --> 00:05:05,400 over in Scripture, like when the biblical characters would face 93 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:09,630 fear, God would he would say, Do not fear. But he didn't say, Do 94 00:05:09,630 --> 00:05:13,410 not fear because being fearful is stupid. He said, Do not fear 95 00:05:13,410 --> 00:05:16,170 because he had a response for this. He had a way he was going 96 00:05:16,170 --> 00:05:19,260 to handle this, that he was there. He was the great reward 97 00:05:19,260 --> 00:05:23,520 I'm with you. Like over and over, when a leader was dealing 98 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,670 with fear, God was responding with how he was there to help 99 00:05:26,670 --> 00:05:29,010 lead them through that. And so I think you know, when we're 100 00:05:29,010 --> 00:05:32,220 confronting fear, so if you're a person to say, you know, there's 101 00:05:32,220 --> 00:05:35,820 a lot of biblical truth that we can kind of hold on to, to 102 00:05:35,820 --> 00:05:40,020 suggest that God is with us through this. And you know, even 103 00:05:40,020 --> 00:05:42,750 if you're not a person of faith, there's still truth behind 104 00:05:42,750 --> 00:05:45,990 things that sometimes we allow those fears to convince us of. 105 00:05:46,110 --> 00:05:48,360 You know, we kind of just spin off into all the worst case 106 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:50,970 scenarios. And when you stop and you go, Okay, what's the worst 107 00:05:50,970 --> 00:05:53,460 thing that's going to happen? What's the real truth of if the 108 00:05:53,460 --> 00:05:56,190 worst thing happened? What's What does that mean? So it's 109 00:05:56,190 --> 00:05:59,250 kind of that idea of exchanging that fear for just what's true, 110 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:01,530 just getting rational for a minute. Because what does fear 111 00:06:01,530 --> 00:06:04,050 do? It makes us irrational. You know, most of the time. 112 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:08,470 Host: So now the next one is a comparison. And this one, I 113 00:06:08,470 --> 00:06:11,680 think, is so acute. Why is it a clout killer? 114 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:15,010 Jenni Catron: Yeah, you know. And I think comparison, it's 115 00:06:15,010 --> 00:06:18,370 almost natural, you know, like we are kind of wired to just 116 00:06:18,370 --> 00:06:21,640 compare everything from the time we're born like our we, you 117 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:25,480 know, we are. We get the Growth Percentile chart, things you 118 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,850 know that tell us how we're stacking up to the rest of, you 119 00:06:27,850 --> 00:06:30,730 know, kids in our age group. And I think our culture just 120 00:06:30,730 --> 00:06:33,640 conditions us to compare ourselves to everyone else. But 121 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,910 the danger in that is that, and this is kind of the spirit of 122 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:41,020 this whole book. The danger in that is that I believe that God 123 00:06:41,020 --> 00:06:44,530 has given us, like, this unique sphere of influence, this unique 124 00:06:44,560 --> 00:06:47,830 set of gifts, talents, experiences and opportunities 125 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:51,550 that no one else has your specific like, mix of those 126 00:06:51,550 --> 00:06:55,270 things, right? And so when we compare, you know, I'm not ever 127 00:06:55,270 --> 00:06:58,450 going to be you. I'm not ever going to be able to lead the way 128 00:06:58,450 --> 00:07:02,350 you lead to, you know, encourage people the way you encourage 129 00:07:02,350 --> 00:07:06,400 people to inspire people like I'm not wired exactly like you. 130 00:07:06,430 --> 00:07:08,860 We might have some things that overlap. We have a lot of things 131 00:07:08,860 --> 00:07:11,770 that we enjoy, but if I try to be you, that I'm going to 132 00:07:11,770 --> 00:07:15,580 sabotage the thing that makes me me. And so, you know, I think 133 00:07:15,580 --> 00:07:18,880 that comparison thing, I think we're just so naturally wired by 134 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:22,540 society to give into it, that we don't even realize that we're 135 00:07:22,540 --> 00:07:26,050 doing it. And what, what I feel like we do on that is we miss 136 00:07:26,080 --> 00:07:29,740 really cultivating and developing the the influence we 137 00:07:29,740 --> 00:07:32,920 have. You know, in trying to mimic somebody else, we actually 138 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:34,480 sabotage our own growth. 139 00:07:34,690 --> 00:07:37,060 Host: What's the difference between comparison and jealousy? 140 00:07:37,060 --> 00:07:40,480 Because those two kind of seem to maybe dovetail or be related. 141 00:07:40,810 --> 00:07:43,390 Jenni Catron: Yeah they do kind of dovetail. And I think, you 142 00:07:43,390 --> 00:07:46,960 know, comparison is I can look at what somebody else is doing, 143 00:07:46,990 --> 00:07:51,760 and I can, like, try to be that jealousy, like it, like it gets 144 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,810 to that icky place where I, you know, now I'm like, I'm really, 145 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,080 like, striving and working towards, you know, being jealous 146 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:02,080 or envious of what somebody else is doing. So it really kind of 147 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:06,370 makes it about trying to almost sabotage the other person. Like 148 00:08:06,370 --> 00:08:09,940 jealousy kind of takes that nasty twist of, you know, I say 149 00:08:09,940 --> 00:08:12,850 it's kind of like a cancer that eats, eats away at everything 150 00:08:12,850 --> 00:08:16,570 that's good in our relationship. So jealousy takes that to Okay, 151 00:08:16,570 --> 00:08:18,850 now you're my enemy, because I'm jealous of what you've 152 00:08:18,850 --> 00:08:21,670 accomplished. Now it's not that I've just compared myself and 153 00:08:21,670 --> 00:08:25,150 I've tried to mimic you now. It's that, oh, you're now my 154 00:08:25,150 --> 00:08:29,200 enemy, because I want to be like you, and I see where our gaps 155 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,080 are different, and so I'm going to start being jealous of that, 156 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:35,710 and it's going to start eroding the relationship component. You 157 00:08:35,710 --> 00:08:38,500 start that comparison, and then it turns into and I, at one 158 00:08:38,500 --> 00:08:41,710 point, I talk about jealousy is kind of the irrational fear of 159 00:08:41,710 --> 00:08:44,710 losing something or someone valuable to you, you know. So 160 00:08:44,710 --> 00:08:47,560 it's that all of a sudden it becomes a competition, you know, 161 00:08:47,710 --> 00:08:50,380 and it becomes and that's where fear kind of mixes into the 162 00:08:50,380 --> 00:08:54,070 whole equation. And, yeah, jealousy just goes to kind of 163 00:08:54,070 --> 00:08:58,810 that ugly place of, now you're my enemy rather than somebody 164 00:08:58,810 --> 00:09:01,600 I'm celebrating because of you stewarding your God given 165 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:02,290 influence. 166 00:09:02,740 --> 00:09:05,170 Host: So scarcity is the fourth one? 167 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:07,270 Jenni Catron: Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, this was one of 168 00:09:07,270 --> 00:09:10,000 the ones that kind of snuck up on me and surprised me as a 169 00:09:10,000 --> 00:09:13,180 leader. And I think, you know, I grew up kind of in a, you know, 170 00:09:13,180 --> 00:09:16,360 just, uh, you know, lower middle class family. So we had, you 171 00:09:16,360 --> 00:09:18,970 know, we struggled to make ends meet some days, you know, sure. 172 00:09:19,030 --> 00:09:22,630 And but in that there were some good things that I learned in 173 00:09:22,630 --> 00:09:26,170 just, you know, being frugal and making sure I manage my money 174 00:09:26,170 --> 00:09:28,900 well. And, you know, so there were certainly some really good 175 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:31,870 principles that came from that. But what it did is it taught me 176 00:09:31,870 --> 00:09:35,320 to kind of hoard a little bit more than normal, and not just 177 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,560 resources. It kind of, you know, it just was this overarching 178 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:41,950 tendency to just be scarce with everything, because there's kind 179 00:09:41,950 --> 00:09:44,620 of this underlying fear that there's not enough, you know. So 180 00:09:44,620 --> 00:09:47,470 when you grow up, and so a lot of us, I think, come by that 181 00:09:47,470 --> 00:09:52,180 scarcity mentality honestly, you know, maybe so I didn't I grew 182 00:09:52,180 --> 00:09:55,750 up in a home that didn't have just a lot of resources. So I 183 00:09:55,750 --> 00:09:58,330 can be scarce with resources, but maybe somebody grew up in a 184 00:09:58,330 --> 00:10:01,630 home where there wasn't a lot of love given. Our show. And so 185 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:04,780 you, you, you, you don't even realize it, because it's just 186 00:10:04,780 --> 00:10:08,770 the culture you came from. But you can hoard, you know, just a 187 00:10:08,770 --> 00:10:12,430 affirmation and really loving and serving others well. And so 188 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:14,920 I think, you know, we have to kind of look at that and go, is 189 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:17,440 there a place in my leadership where I have a tendency to 190 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,040 hoard? So another one where I think this shows up a lot is, 191 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:24,520 you know, if you're a leader in your position for influence, you 192 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,430 know, are you taking all of those opportunities for the 193 00:10:27,430 --> 00:10:32,410 spotlight, or, you know, to bring the idea to the table and 194 00:10:32,560 --> 00:10:35,980 or are you, you know, really empowering other staff to be the 195 00:10:35,980 --> 00:10:38,980 ones to share that or to bring that up, or to to get the 196 00:10:38,980 --> 00:10:42,190 spotlight, or, you know, so I think that's where you see it 197 00:10:42,190 --> 00:10:46,270 happen a lot in leadership, is that we're not quick to give the 198 00:10:46,270 --> 00:10:50,650 praise or the the attention to other leaders around us. 199 00:10:50,860 --> 00:10:53,020 Host: And the next one is insecurity. And these are 200 00:10:53,020 --> 00:10:54,730 definitely connected. 201 00:10:54,940 --> 00:10:56,710 Jenni Catron: Yeah, you know. And this is the one that none of 202 00:10:56,710 --> 00:11:00,040 us want to admit, right? It's there, and it's, you know, that 203 00:11:00,070 --> 00:11:03,130 it, and I describe it as a perpetual lack of confidence, 204 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:06,040 you know. And I think we can all relate to that. But the problem 205 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,400 is, when we kind of live in that perpetual lack of confidence, it 206 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,850 is impacting everyone else around us. And so, you know, I 207 00:11:12,850 --> 00:11:16,780 think you've got to be willing to identify that and realize 208 00:11:16,780 --> 00:11:20,440 where insecurity is kind of holding you back from living 209 00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,500 out, you know, living out your influence in a healthy in a 210 00:11:23,500 --> 00:11:26,020 healthy way. It's a biggie, and it can show up a lot of 211 00:11:26,020 --> 00:11:29,320 different ways, you know. And I think we cover it up in a lot of 212 00:11:29,320 --> 00:11:29,860 ways. 213 00:11:30,910 --> 00:11:33,580 Host: So pride, pride is the sixth. So we've got fear, 214 00:11:33,580 --> 00:11:37,540 comparison, jealousy, scarcity, insecurity. And I know that 215 00:11:37,540 --> 00:11:42,160 pride is often a sign of people who are covering up something 216 00:11:42,160 --> 00:11:42,520 else. 217 00:11:42,550 --> 00:11:45,070 Jenni Catron: Yep. In the book talking about pride, you know, 218 00:11:45,100 --> 00:11:48,700 the like the Webster's definition is in inordinate self 219 00:11:48,700 --> 00:11:53,290 esteem, or excessive confidence in oneself. And when I started 220 00:11:53,290 --> 00:11:56,290 to unpack this and look at other leaders and myself, and you 221 00:11:56,290 --> 00:12:00,070 know, see where pride shows up, it's really the illusion of 222 00:12:00,100 --> 00:12:03,010 excessive self esteem, you know. So that goes back to that 223 00:12:03,010 --> 00:12:07,120 insecurity piece of that. You know, as leaders, rarely are we 224 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:13,300 just really that prideful. We're actually lacking some self 225 00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:16,750 esteem, and so we're trying to project that we have something 226 00:12:16,750 --> 00:12:19,180 that we don't actually have. So it's kind of like pride and 227 00:12:19,180 --> 00:12:22,270 insecurity end up this big ball of mess where prides trying to 228 00:12:22,270 --> 00:12:25,750 cover up, it just all becomes one big jumbled mess that we're 229 00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:26,950 trying to untangle. 230 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:29,950 Host: That's huge. Well, the last one is control. 231 00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:32,710 Jenni Catron: That's a funny one, because as leaders, we're, 232 00:12:32,740 --> 00:12:37,360 we're so driven, right? And, you know, we have such a drive that 233 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:41,290 kind of pushes us and we and we step into, you know, moments 234 00:12:41,290 --> 00:12:44,020 where leadership is necessary. So we are kind of known for 235 00:12:44,020 --> 00:12:47,050 being the ones to take control when control is me, you know, 236 00:12:47,050 --> 00:12:50,680 when that's necessary. But there's kind of a dark side to 237 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:53,740 it, where, when it's, you know, there's a lot of conversations 238 00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:57,280 about the importance of servant leadership, and that as leaders, 239 00:12:57,280 --> 00:13:00,580 we have to recognize that it's our job to help others shine. 240 00:13:00,880 --> 00:13:04,690 And so when you see control creeping in, it's when you're 241 00:13:04,690 --> 00:13:08,980 really longing for power, rather than like longing for influence. 242 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:12,490 And I think that's a real distinction that's important in 243 00:13:12,490 --> 00:13:15,730 that, you know, this longing for power is an indicator that we're 244 00:13:15,730 --> 00:13:18,670 not content with the influence we're given. So if we're trying 245 00:13:18,670 --> 00:13:23,650 to, you know, manufacture control of a situation I often 246 00:13:23,650 --> 00:13:27,100 talk about like the idea of, you know, we've been given this 247 00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:31,090 influence, our leadership, our clout, and it's kind of placed 248 00:13:31,090 --> 00:13:33,850 in our hands as this thing we're responsible to, kind of care, 249 00:13:33,850 --> 00:13:37,330 take, to steward. But I'm one of those people who loves control. 250 00:13:37,330 --> 00:13:40,300 So what do I do? I kind of curl my fingers around it, and I kind 251 00:13:40,300 --> 00:13:43,090 of put a death grip on it and try to manipulate and control 252 00:13:43,090 --> 00:13:46,270 everything, you know, and what happens? You're squeezing the 253 00:13:46,270 --> 00:13:49,180 life out of it rather than letting it grow and develop. And 254 00:13:49,180 --> 00:13:52,420 so I think we have to look for that tension in ourself as 255 00:13:52,420 --> 00:13:56,710 leaders. Is, when am I, you know, being responsible for the 256 00:13:56,710 --> 00:13:59,830 influence I have and I'm gently, kind of blood, guiding it and 257 00:13:59,830 --> 00:14:03,430 directing it, or when am I trying to, like, manipulate it 258 00:14:03,460 --> 00:14:07,210 and control it? And I mean, you're going to be the best Gage 259 00:14:07,510 --> 00:14:10,570 for yourself on when you're doing those things and when it's 260 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,660 it's moving to control rather than influence, if that makes 261 00:14:13,660 --> 00:14:17,230 sense. But there's a real dance there, because as leaders, we do 262 00:14:17,230 --> 00:14:20,800 need to step up and actually lead. But that can cross the 263 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,640 line into, you know, controlling, obsessive control 264 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:25,510 if we're not careful. 265 00:14:25,810 --> 00:14:29,080 Host: Wow. Well, Jenni Catron, folks, you can check her out. 266 00:14:29,080 --> 00:14:32,440 Jennicatron.com, Jenni, thank you for being with us. Thank you 267 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:36,370 for your wisdom. Thank you for what you do as a leader. And we 268 00:14:36,370 --> 00:14:36,790 wish you all the best. 269 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,500 Jenni Catron: Thank you so much. It was wonderful to talk this 270 00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:41,420 through with you, and I appreciate the conversation. 271 00:14:41,420 --> 00:14:41,900 Thank you.