You've learned the polyvagal theory.

You are stuck in a defensive state.

You don't know what to do next, and you are looking for hope.

Is it actually possible to get unstuck?

Can somebody recover maybe from shutdown in particular, but in

a defensive state in general?

Can you actually feel safe and build your body's safety state?

In this episode, we hear from Eva.

She has successfully unstuck herself from shutdown and shares with us a bit

of her story- what's been helpful and gives you super duper practical tips to

start your own untucking process today.

Hi, I am Justin Sunseri.

I'm a therapist and coach who helps you live more calmly, confidently, and

connected without psychobabble or woo woo.

Welcome to Stuck Not Broken.

This podcast is of course not therapy, nor is it intended to replace therapy.

Oh, real quick, and before you ask, no, this is not a paid testimonial

from an Unstucking Academy member.

I've had more and more people asking me for stories of success, not necessarily

from the community, but just in general.

Are there stories of success for people coming out of a stuck defensive state?

So that's where this came from- in response to this audience and its needs,

I asked current and past Unstucking Academy students if they would share

their success story, and Eva volunteered.

Once again, Eva, thank you so much for sharing your success

and for helping the next person.

The first thing Eva shares is about her stuck defensive state

and what life used to be like.

so I, I guess I lived in that dorsal vagal shutdown state for probably several

years, and essentially I was a, it was a state of emotional, I guess, numbness,

disconnection, even helplessness.

And I, I wasn't just tired, I was really withdrawn from life.

Um, I began avoiding confrontation challenges and sadly, even joy.

So I didn't want anything.

Everything felt like it was too much.

Uh, looking back, I now realize that I'd operated in, I guess, a survival mode.

I was functioning, but I wasn't living for maybe two to three years

prior to, prior to where I am now.

And that disconnection, that's where I really found it most, the numbness and the

disconnection and just that helplessness.

Like I said, it was just the inability to, um, kind of see a way forward and

even, um, yeah, just withdrawing just that real heavy, heavy, heavy feeling.

So was your shutdown more acute, limited time, or was that something that was,

that had been around for a lifetime?

It was a gradual kind of slipping, I suppose.

I didn't really notice other people noticed before I did.

The disconnection and the withdrawing from life.

I hadn't realized that I was doing it as much as I, I was.

That turning point for me when I recognized that I was really stuck and

something needed to change was not a dramatic moment, but a really quiet, and I

guess a painful moment when I noticed that I really did not feel anything anymore.

There wasn't any sadness, no joy, and not even anger.

So I think that's probably, you know, for me, where I was really noticing it 'cause

not that I'm an angry person, but things, things just didn't get under my skin.

I just, I just shrugged my shoulders kind of thing and keep going.

And yes, where I really noticed it was I was sitting alone at a family, like

a social gathering, um, a barbecue, and I was really not wanting to be there.

I was scrolling, really numbly through my phone because I

didn't wanna engage with anybody.

And it was at that moment I could hear people around me having a good time.

And I realized that I hadn't truly laughed or cried or connected with anybody or

anything really in months and months.

And I guess that was a moment where it hit me and I realized

that this, this isn't who I am.

Um, I was no longer hiding my emotions.

I'd kind of lost them or misplaced them all together.

So that's like that slipping away

Yeah.

that.

Like in that moment they weren't there.

But before that there was like a hiding or, and we all do it, like there's

some sort of repression or denial or something like that, I'm assuming?

Yeah.

Yes, exactly.

Yeah.

And I made up excuses, um, as to why I wasn't doing things or, um, why I was

withdrawing the way I was, you know?

And it, that kind of went well for a while with people, I suppose.

You know, I was working hard, I was doing this, I was doing that, but really

I wasn't, I just didn't want to engage.

So if someone did not know you and they saw you in this, this shutdown

period, would they look at you and say, oh, she's got it together.

She has her stuff together and she has a functional life, or would they see

someone who's like at home, isolated in a dark room or a little bit of both?

I guess a little bit of both.

So if you didn't know me, you would see me functioning and I would take

every tiny little bit of energy, which there was not- it was very depleted

anyway, but I would use all of that to get to work and do what I had to do.

But even then, cracks started to appear with colleagues and things like that.

But as soon as I got home, and even when I was going home in the car,

I, I couldn't wait to get home.

So I could go and literally in that dark room closet sometimes, and.

Kinda makes me feel emotional to hear about that now, but

that's where I wanted to be.

And it was, it's funny you should say that, because it was a closet,

a dark closet where it was.

was a closet.

Yep.

And there was four walls and it was dark and it was contained and it felt safe.

Um, so that's where I spent a lot of time and it's, yeah, it's a

bit hard to speak about now, but yeah, that's, that was my place.

for sure.

And, um,

Giselle, it,

you, you have complete control here, okay?

Yeah, thank you.

You okay?

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's just,

and talking.

yeah, no, I know.

And when, when I go back to think about that, yeah, it's, I, and you

know, I guess we'll get to that.

I haven't been in that closet for a while now, so it sounds, it's

metaphoric in some ways, but it was literal for me as well, and it wasn't,

I didn't see it as a bad place.

I saw it as a very safe place.

Yeah, it wasn't living, is what I'm saying, you know?

I was very aware that people were out there functioning on a level

that was, I used to be at social and I was a very vibrant person.

I was very engaged with life and, um, people around me.

It was me that was the social, you know, butterfly, so to speak.

And I was very into sports and very into a probably over socializer, um, with not

much of a, a, a break in that, um, in that social space to, to go from that where

I was the, you know, the orchestrator of social gatherings and getting

togethers and parties and things like that to living in a closet, so to speak.

It was really, really hard.

Yeah.

huge change.

Hmm.

an enormous change.

I mean, that's the complete opposite of, of

Yeah.

A lot of people would say that this is not my true self.

The-

No, no.

this isn't me.

Yeah.

Yeah.

that's kinda what you're saying.

And then I questioned who I was, you know, and it's like, well, which is the real me?

You know, which is the bit that's, um, which part of me is real?

And I, you know, I guess there's still some questions there.

I'm still finding myself along the way.

I don't know that I wanna return back to the old person, but I'm, I'm not sure.

Yeah.

It's, it's a, it's a process and a journey, so I'm definitely on it.

a hundred percent.

Yeah, I agree with you.

I feel like I'm

learning about myself all the

Hmm.

Hmm.

Achieve or unlock or this, it's, it's not just like achieving something.

It's, it's the emotional of like, oh, I'm, I'm capable of that.

Yes.

stuck now than I was comparatively in the past.

Yeah,

All right.

Okay.

So you realize that this family get together, that this is not.

I'm not happy.

I'm not feeling anything.

I'm not even feeling anger.

I'm not feeling sadness.

I'm numb.

Yeah.

was, did you take immediate action to help or, or what?

What was the first thing you did?

How long did it take?

Yeah.

I think for me that first step was kind of simple, but it was powerful, and that

was naming that state that I was in.

Um.

Learning about the Polyvagal Theory helped me realize that my body wasn't broken

or lazy- it was actually protecting me.

And for me, that changed everything.

I started with those, um, short somatic exercises, orientating to the room,

those soft eye gazes, longer exhales.

But, um, you know, prior to that, which is how I started, I guess

I found one of your podcasts.

Um, um, so I gone googling as you do, you know, I was looking for

something that would guide me.

Um, and I found one of the podcasts.

And the podcast I found was an episode that explained the, the,

the, the states, the defense states in very, very plain language.

And that's what I needed, I think.

And that gave me that permission to stop blaming myself and instead

focus on building some safety.

So.

I guess that's where it all started and that's where those

wheels started turning for me.

Did you take immediate action

yes.

sit with it for a little bit?

No, I think, I think that immediate action, going back to what I was starting

with those short exercises, and I remember listening to that first podcast and

then probably binge binge listening.

Um, 'cause I wanted, I understood for a moment there I was

like, oh my gosh, this is me.

This is how I feel, and it was plain language and I understood it.

And so I kept listening and I kind of scrolled ahead, so to speak,

you know, went ahead and tried to find the, the quick fix and went

to the building safety anchors.

And, um, I didn't wanna wait.

I wanted to, you know, I wanted the, I wanted that fix, so I went to those, yeah,

those little exercises there that we talk, you know, you, we've been talking about.

So those, you know, the soft eye gazes, the breathing, you know,

orientating myself to the room and things like that, so that.

That's where it started.

Did you

Yeah.

the quick fix?

No, no.

Not a quick fix, but the, I guess the quick fix in some ways was it's

that, you know, that, like I said, it was a simple but powerful one.

It was naming that state that I was in, so that was, it was like a moment

which changed everything, you know?

It changed everything.

So, yeah, and that's, that was quick.

In some ways it wasn't quick getting there, but it was a quick understanding.

I thought.

I thought that I would go through lots and lots and lots of different

therapies and different, um, you know, to try and find the right thing.

But listening to your pod, that first podcast was like, "oh," it was- it

just felt too easy in some ways.

So I felt like I must've been missing something, but it's been.

Um, yeah.

It's been, it's been a journey, but definitely one that I felt like it,

it fit right from the beginning.

I'd listened to your podcast, that first podcast, and then

I listened to a few more.

And then you'd mentioned, um, Deb Dana and Stephen Porges.

And so I went off and looked, watched, you know, some of their stuff as well.

But I kept coming back to your podcast 'cause it felt to me

that it was easy to understand.

Uh, it was relatable and I didn't feel like, you know, um, yeah, it, it

just resonated in a way that wasn't.

It, it was science based, but it wasn't scientific, if that makes sense.

Um, so yeah, it really resonated.

So I just kept going on with that.

And then obviously I'd, uh, joined the cohorts as well.

So I'd learned that, you know, the Unstuck Academy, and I thought I need more.

I feel like, you know, the podcasts were a good beginning, but I felt like

I needed a little more, so that's when I, I made the commitment after that.

Anything else been like hugely helpful for you Outside of what I do?

Like, has anything else been really great for you?

Yeah.

So I, I guess beginning, in the beginning you had helped me understand

that neurobiological, you know, neurobiologic, biology of stuckness.

Yeah.

Being, um, which helped me demystify what I was going through.

It's been, you know, but it also has been very helpful to share this

journey and learn from other people in our little cohorts that we have.

And that in itself, that in itself has made me feel less

alone and very supported.

Um, it's really difficult to describe to other people in my life.

My family, friends and colleagues, what's happening for me.

And they'll often kind of brush it off and say things like,

just, you know, just get out.

Just go.

You know, just, you know, you just snap out of it, make a decision.

Uh, and for me that made me feel less, less somehow it really found me feel like

I, I wasn't, I wasn't, you know, made me feel more hopeless, more helpless,

because I couldn't just do that.

So having that safe place where people do understand and being able to share some

of my experiences and listening to theirs normalized, normalized things for me.

And it also inspired me to try new ideas and to continue,

um, my journey in this space.

But I also layered it in other different supports.

And that was, I found a trauma informed therapist, um, who worked.

And understood polyvagal theory and worked somatically.

Um, I enlist, yeah, I enlisted the help of, of, yeah, I enlisted the help

of a friend so I could practice those co-regulation exercises with her and in

particular for me and her it was about walking and sharing stories of nature.

So being able to do the nature and she was really good at doing

that um, and co-regulating.

And when she saw me become, you know, she started to pick up on

cue, she draw me back to that nature space and you know, where I was.

Um, I also have a journal practice.

I'm pretty good on that.

Um, so where I- I tracked my states, you know, I suppose instead of my moods.

So that was something that we talked about in one of our, um, little things.

And I, I'd started from there.

So tracking where I was at, um, and being able to really be.

your, you and your friend talked about that.

Sorry to.

No, no, no, no.

This is just another kind of, I guess, thing that I was doing

on top of all the other stuff.

So, but we would talk about it, my friend and I. But that journal practice

was, I stopped, I, I guess I've always been a bit of a journaler, but I kept

focusing on the moods in my journal, but then I started moving that for the

states, you know, um, like tracking where I was, being able to identify that.

So that actually helped as well.

Going back to that other question about, you know, what I was doing,

as you know, alongside, I, I started Googling and, and reading and I'd read

books like, um, I think I read The Body Keeps the Score and another one called

Anchored and that that helped validate my experience as well, which was good.

And I think something that you'd said a while ago, which is what I had begun to

do, and I was looking for that quick fix, but rather than looking for the quick

one fix, I started to build a toolkit, I suppose, of those micro practices.

Each one of those little micro practices that we practice, the daily micro

challenges, were helping me access a little bit more of myself each day.

Real quick, what she's referring to is the Daily Growth Hub.

This is where I post, uh, simple challenges or discussion points to the

community Every day, every weekday.

Um, and there are a lot of times there are micro challenges, like tiny

little 30 seconds to two minutes, little challenges to help boost

safety or, uh, practice mindfulness.

That's,

wow.

You

Wow.

kept going above and beyond?

I think, um, what most people would do, and it's not, that's not sound comparative

or judgmental, but we, we do look for those quick fixes, but really it's,

um, combination of the little things

Hmm.

plus co-regulation, plus nature, plus a therapist, like really just

these things, things came together.

So what has been the outcome so far?

Of these things are you compared to where you were before?

How much safety do you have in your system now?

'cause it sounds like that's really where you put a lot of your

attention compared to where you were.

What of like, and take it away from there, but I'm, I'm kind of

curious on like a zero 10 scale.

That's where my mind goes.

But in

Yeah.

whatever way you wanna describe it.

How much safety do you have in your system now compared to the past?

I guess I'd describe my baseline as being very low, previously I

was on a, a, a very, I guess two out of 10 in that safety space.

And now I'm.

Yeah, yeah.

Then I was, or would've been about a two outta 10.

And that's what I mean about tracking my safety, you know,

tracking things in my journal.

I, I consistently do my, um do, do that, you know, numbers, I suppose.

You know where I was at and now, and what I've noticed in, in,

after doing this stuff for a little while now I'm more consistent.

That's probably where I'm more consistent is I'm consistently sitting around that

six to seven out of 10, and that means that I can access calm and connection most

days, which is very different to where I was at, which was in the closet not

being able to access calm and connection.

I think what I noticed the most is now I have an ability to notice when I'm

slipping and I can, I can gently course correct, you know, I can gently pull

myself back in with some of the tools in my little micro toolkit that I was talking

about before to bring myself back around.

So I never used to notice that before.

I used to, um, I never understood that before.

I suppose I probably, 'cause I was living in that, I felt like

a constant state of shut down.

But now I can notice when I'm slipping back down that ladder

and then know what to do or try to know what to do before I get there.

it's still a work in progress.

I don't always get it right, but I'm, I'm better.

Yeah.

Oh yeah.

I, I don't.

I think it's a work in progress for a while personally, and I

don't think it's ever something I've ever like done with exactly.

We always, I think, should be practicing safety.

So the baseline, I mean, wow.

Six or seven, I think you said

Yeah.

shift in like ni- really nice increase in Baseline.

This isn't just like momentary practices, but like Baseline.

It's consistent.

I, and going back through my journal, I can see that, you know, which

was, yeah, it had gone from being a consistent two to, you know, jumping up.

So, I mean, you know, it didn't, certainly didn't happen overnight and.

Um, I, I feel like I'm still working on it, but yeah.

I store myself hovering around that six to seven most days.

So that felt good.

Wow.

Hmm.

you don't mind.

I'm, I'm looking up 'cause I don't think you've been in the community that long.

you've,

Yeah.

it.

have you been here?

You been here

Uh, six months.

Six, yeah.

Six months.

Yep.

I, I guess I've made.

Yeah, I guess I've made it a, well, not, not like a full-time job, but I've

really put a lot of, it makes sense.

When it resonated, it made sense.

It was, it felt right and it felt right and it made sense.

I could see those incremental, um, shifts and I could feel, um, myself understanding

more about what was happening.

That was probably, like I said, the most pivotal point for me was realizing that

there was an explanation for the way I was feeling and that that neurobiological

explanation and understanding that it wasn't, yeah, it was, it was manageable.

And then the community has been a huge, you know, a huge help for me.

You know, having that, having that ability to connect with other people

who have experienced similar things and learning from their experiences as well.

So that's, I think, um has been a catalyst for a lot.

It's really kind of projected a lot of my healing.

Yeah.

Did you no-, I'm really happy to hear that-

yeah.

really happy to hear that.

Did, did you notice that the baseline, it went from like a two

to a seven, was it right away or was it over time that it increased?

Oh, it was definitely over time and there was variances in the

fluctuations, I suppose, so bit by bit, you know, I, I, and that was it.

It was even hard to do that.

Journaling was really, really important, and that's why I say

that, you know, was a practice that I had, so I'm becoming very, very.

Um, I guess militant almost about it.

As in, you know, I would really uh, sometimes I write in my journal and,

and record where my safety site was at, not once a day, but many times a day.

So I gradually, yeah, I gradually, you know, I, I actually hadn't

thought about that until I started thinking about the questions and I

went back to my journal and I can see the, the, the gains, so to speak.

I felt like I was in a gym, you know, where you, where you measure

your, where you measure your body fat and things like that in a gym or

your, how much you can lift, I felt.

You know, you don't notice it in the moment, but you know,

over the time I was like, wow.

Yeah.

Okay.

I've moved.

Exactly.

I I love that metaphor, and that's something I say a lot

is you gotta put the reps in.

It's, it's

Hmm,

anything else.

And it sounded like you were not wasting time.

You were very focused on what you wanted to accomplish and

hmm hmm.

just steadily walk down that path and are still doing it.

Yeah.

So, okay.

So nice, really nice increases in safety.

Um, changes are you noticing in yourself?

Uh, are you noticing any connections to yourself or with

others or the other environment?

Uh, anything you're doing more or less of?

I'm probably, like I mentioned before, I'm probably a lot more self re

reflective without the that spiraling.

So I can, I can really look at where I am without spiraling, and

I'm more attuned to my body's cues.

And that's something that I was not doing before, like really noticing.

I think there's a few things that we spoke about in some of the, um, some of

the discussions that we've had through, um, the Academy there or whatever we

had been talking about um you know, citrus, I remember something, you know,

we talked about, um, being, noticing, you know, how your body reacts or feels

towards things and safety cues as well.

So that was really interesting.

You know, as I'm really mindful, uh, very, very conscious when I'm doing

most of the things today, I'm really paying attention to how my body reacts.

Um, and then knowing what to do afterwards.

And I'm certainly less reactive, so I don't need to run back to the, um,

to the closet as much as I used to.

So I'm, I'm a a lot more tolerant.

Um, I'm reaching out more, um, which I never did.

I was very shut down.

I find myself responding to messages, which I would never

do, um, in that shutdown state.

you are reaching out and responding because you have to or because you

actually feel like you're ready for it and

No, I feel like, I feel like there's a, there's a desire to, like, there was

no desire to whatsoever, so I'm still, I mean, I'm not, it's not perfect.

I'll only respond to certain things and certain people where I feel safe.

Um.

But you know, I wouldn't do any of that before.

So I'm certainly responding to messages.

I'm, you know, I'm making plans with people that I feel safe and

comfortable with, and I guess I'm letting myself be seen.

And letting myself be seen, even the imperfect version of myself,

which I wasn't doing before.

Okay.

I was holding that all together and presenting someone that seemed

on top of it and seemed, you know, capable, but wasn't, you know,

internally or outside of that space.

So now I'm a little bit more willing to let myself be seen in that imperfect way.

Um,

Yeah, I mean, here you are doing this, right?

Like-

Yes, yes.

Yeah, I would, I wouldn't have thought that before.

So the other thing, yeah, the other thing is I'm, I'm really finding I'm

ruminating less, you know, I'm ru- I, I used to ruminate a lot in that closet.

Um, and I'm finding I'm resting more.

So I know that sounds funny because in that shutdown state,

that feels like all you're doing.

But in that shutdown state, it was a constant dialogue in my head.

Um, and now there's a more restful state, which I like.

Um, and you know, not going around and around and churning things over,

which was just really difficult.

Um, i'm starting to find one of the big things for me was I stop, stop

listening to music and I'm finding myself listening to music again.

And, you know, even that music was too overwhelming.

It was too much.

And I'd always found, um, myself listening to music as a way of,

you know, um, yeah, feeling good.

But I shut that down and shut that out.

So I'm starting to put that in.

I'm my dark closet.

That I spoke about.

So I'm beginning to let sunlight back into my space, which I felt

like a vampire for a while there.

I, I just didn't want it.

I didn't want music.

I didn't want light.

I didn't want anything, nothing.

There was nothing, you know, and even I. I've started, there's something

yesterday I've known, I'm on a bit of a sourdough kick right now.

I'm starting to cook for pleasure, you know, not just

for survival, but for pleasure.

And I, I'm enjoying it.

You know, I'm, I'm enjoying putting that energy, you know, or finding

the energy a and b, putting it into, you know, creating something

and being mindful about something.

And yeah, while I'm cooking that sourdough, I'm, yeah,

I'm, I'm there in that moment.

It's sticky.

It's, you know, it's.

Yeah, I'm out of the closet and I'm in the kitchen and it's fun.

So it's not just because I need to eat, because I need

to survive, but I need to eat.

And prior to that, I'd lost a hell of a lot of weight, um, in

my shutdown space, like a lot.

And, um, because I didn't want to eat and I didn't, there was no pleasure in eating.

I didn't.

I didn't wanna prepare anything and I didn't need to eat.

I wasn't doing anything.

So I, yeah, I lost a lot of weight and people were commenting on that.

So I know it sounds funny, the cooking for pleasure, but now I'm doing that

and I'm enjoying what I'm eating.

It's, it's a lot of bread right now, but I've, you know, gained

that weight back and I'm feeling better about where I am physically.

You've already shared with us a whole bunch of examples of getting unstuck

and what that's led to, but is there one concrete example for you that

really sticks out to you that says, I'm definitely unstuck or much less

stuck than I was not that long ago?

I can think of a moment that I guess, um, probably relates to my work, um,

my, my professional life and I think something that I'd avoided for, for quite

some time and, and there was a moment where I had to initiate a difficult.

But honest conversation with someone that was professionally close to me.

Um, and you know, I guess while I was doing that, I noticed that

my heart was pounding, you know?

And I was like, Ooh, I noticed those physical body cues.

But I stayed in that moment.

You know, I noticed that they were there and I understood why they were there.

I validated them, you know, and normalized them.

And I was able to express what I needed to express, what I needed to express.

It was a conversation that I had to have, and I didn't

collapse into shame afterwards.

That's the bit that I noticed, you know, I didn't, didn't collapse

into that shame afterwards.

And I guess that night, instead of disassociating what I would normally,

which is what I would normally do, and, you know, shut down and find the closet,

I journaled about it, but I did it with.

Some compassion this time, you know, for myself and the situation.

And I think that was the first time I really saw myself choosing

connection over withdrawal, um, which I had actively been doing for,

for those two to three years prior.

So it, it wasn't easy, but it was certainly, I think, a breakthrough

or a turning point, whatever you kind of wanna call it, of moving

out of that really stuck place.

That's a great example.

What- the compassion that you brought to the journaling, was it forced or

was it already there because of all the safety practices you've been doing?

I think a bit of both.

I think I had to be really mindful about it.

I had to tell myself, you know, I was doing the, a bit of the AWE stuff-

Real quick interlude.

When she says the AWE stuff, she's referring to a process

from one of the courses.

It's called the AWE method.

AWE.

A stands for Anchored Awareness.

W is Witness, and E is Experience.

This teaches people how to deeply connect with their emotions.

I think I had to be really mindful about it.

I had to tell myself, you know, I was doing the, a bit of the AWE stuff- um, and

being, you know, I put it at the top of my journal sometimes as a bit of a reminder.

I think I once mentioned to you, I put it on my, I write it on my, on my hands

sometimes to remind myself, and that's, it's made a little bit of a trigger to,

to be, you know, aware and, um, yeah.

So there was a little bit of both.

The compassion was there, I think, but I, I mindfully wrote about

it in a compassionate way instead of the way- well, I wouldn't have

written before anyway, so it was just the way that I'd expressed it.

You mentioned I want to come back to go into the closet less.

Are you still going into the closet when you need to?

No, no, I haven't, like, I haven't, like I said, when I went back now, I have

not been in there a while for a while.

I'm still, you know, I still find comfort in, um, some days is still

too bright and too loud, I suppose for me, depending on how I'm feeling.

Um.

But yeah, that six to seven consistency means that I am opening the curtains

more and I'm out of the, out of that space a bit more, and I can let the light

in and put some music on and be moving around a bit more than what I used to.

I probably, another thing that I did in my toolkit, uh, I didn't mention

before, was that daily practice.

I, I found a, whew, it was hard to begin with.

It was a, a micro thing, a five minute practice.

I started with five minutes and went to 10 and up to 15 of Tai Chi

on YouTube 'cause I didn't want to go out and do a class with people.

So I, I found myself out of the closet and just doing a YouTube thing of a

Tai chi, which is that gentle movement.

And people kept saying to me, 'cause I was such a big, you know, physical

person, you know, you need to go for a run or you need to swim, or you

need to go for a ride, or whatever.

And oh, the thought of that was so, so far from where I was.

I couldn't, you know, I didn't, wouldn't wanna come out of the closet, but

that little five minute, gentle five minute movement was yeah, something

that I really came to rely on.

So, yeah, that was really,

right?

Like it's, it's

yeah.

it's intentional.

It's not too much and it's a small practice.

That's perfect.

For someone who is, who is currently in the shoes that you were in

about six months ago, what is one piece of specific, direct,

practical, actionable advice that you

Yeah.

I think start with a body, not with your story.

And not to try and think your way out of it, which is what I was doing.

So instead, find one small thing that makes you feel safe or more pleasant.

You know, I think we'd spoken about at times, like a soft

blanket, a warm cup of tea.

You had that one.

And that's something that I've clung to that warm cup of tea, just feeling it.

Um, pets, you know, the five minutes with my pet, um, and letting my nervous system.

Have that moment, or letting your nervous system have that moment, and then from

there you can build capacity to feel more.

So I always looked at it as safety is the soil and healing is the plant.

So, you know, having that safety, being able to ground myself in the

soil, um, and then the healing came from that growth from that space.

So letting, letting my body starting with the body.

Super easy, use senses.

Yeah.

Small moment,

Yeah.

not 30 minutes, not an hour of meditation, but

No.

maybe of

Yeah,

It's pretty

yeah.

Yep.

Yeah.

Okay.

Progress is not always permanent without the effort.

Um, obviously you've put the effort in, you still are,

doesn't sound like you're done.

I don't think we're ever done.

But you're, um, still doing it.

How you actively maintaining your your growth and the, uh, progress you've made?

What are you doing day in, day out to make sure you don't step back to a three or

four or five on the safety scale, maybe?

Hmm.

So I think I've, I've kind of mentioned before, I've, I've got my daily,

uh, my daily rituals that remind me that my nervous system is safe.

So that morning movement in the Tai Chi class, that's the time in nature that

I mindfully and, you know, ensure that I do the gratitude journaling or the

compassion journaling I'm calling it.

Um, also checking in regularly with the therapist that I spoke about before.

Um, as a bit of a, a stop gap, um, avoiding over consuming that

triggering content for myself.

So making sure I'm balancing all of that.

Um, I guess most importantly, I treat any of those setbacks before, um, I was

treating them as like a big setback.

Now I see them as signals, not failures.

Um, so they're just a, a bit of a. Yeah, A signal, not a failure.

And I return that, that, that forces well forces me.

That's my trigger then to return back to my toolkit with kindness and compassion

and remembering that maintenance is of the, of this journey that we are talking

about now, it's part of that healing, that soil and, but going back to that

space is part of that healing and it's not really proof that I've failed.

It's just part of the healing journey.

So none of what you're doing is overwhelming, hugely demanding.

It sounds like it's just stuff that you recognize feels good and

is manageable, involves others.

Got a little bit of nature in there, rituals, like it's pretty darn

practical things that you're doing.

Nothing

Yeah.

Nope.

Nope.

I'm super curious, if you don't mind me adding, adding then- did you

utilize, uh, anything with your somatic therapist, maybe, or, or just in your

learning, sort of parts work or shadow stuff or ego stuff or any of those

other psychological abstract ideas?

Did they, did those come into play at all for you?

I.

Not really.

Not really.

Um, I guess it was, I've just been probably single focused on, so what,

what I'm doing here and I'm finding good ground, so I don't, yeah.

I haven't wanted to, well, my mind's not been in a space where I can kind

of manage anything extra anyway, but I feel like this is giving me so much

relief and so much progress and so much, um, yeah inspiration that I,

I just- doing that daily practice.

I just don't wanna mess with it at this point.

It's giving me that two to three to, you know, going to six to seven and I

can exist- I can exist at six to seven.

Um, yeah.

And, and function.

Yeah.

Yeah, I mean, I know I, I still feel a bit, I guess, you know, it's early days.

I still feel a bit like it could all be taken away from me.

There's a little bit of fear and apprehension there, and I think

that's just building, you know, um, keep that the daily practice.

You know, keeping that daily practice, so I know I can come back to it.

That's, that's something that I can trust.

Um, but it's working, so I can't see the point in incorporating too much more.

Maybe down the track, I don't know.

But while this is working, I'm happy to stay with it.

For sure.

Yeah.

Okay.

Anything else you want to add in that?

I mean, wow, what a story and I, I think from personally, before you

add in anything else, if you want to hearing relentless dedicated practice

and none of it sounded overwhelming.

None of it sounded like you were trying to take on the world.

It all sounded very practical.

Small things.

Yeah, and it was, it was exactly that.

The, the thought of doing, like I said, even opening a curtain or

listening to music was overwhelming.

So, you know, the thought of what my friends were saying, just go for a run

or come out in the boat for the day.

I was like, whew, no thank you.

But that small little one thing and I, it honestly did start with things

like having that cup of tea and really being mindful or watching the leaves

in the trees or, yeah, just really small stuff, those micro moments.

So I really, really, um, yeah, beginning things and I'm, I'm building.

But it wasn't hard.

It really wasn't hard.

It really wasn't hard.

I mean, you can literally start in the closet if you really want to.

Um, I, I wouldn't suggest it, I wouldn't promote that.

But you could.

Yeah.

I still smile when, yeah.

I still smile when I go to the closet though, like the closet.

It's a space for me.

It's, I don't see it as a punishment, you know?

It was a safe space for me for a little while.

It gave me sanctuary.

So I'm not too hard on it and I'm not too hard on myself for using that.

It, it got me through, but it's a place that I'm happy to go into now and hang

up my clothes as opposed to existing.

So, yeah.

And you know, there was a lot of times that I'd listen to

your podcast in the closet.

So, you know, I would, I would lay there and I would just listen and, uh,

there was not a lot of other sensory things going on, so the focus was

just your voice a lot of the time.

So it was a beginning.

Um, thank, I'm honored to have joined you in the closet there.

Thank you for that.

The other messages, I'm glad that you, you found the path that you

did and, and here you are, like, I'm so happy for you you're sharing it.

Thank you for that again, but this is super weird, right?

What we do is fundamentally different, I think, than like

what your friends tell you.

Well just do this instead.

Like, I'm not in, in our community, we don't.

for making our feelings go away.

We're not trying to fight them or banish them.

saying like, let's compassionately be with them and feel them.

How do you, how do you, that's a foreign idea, I think, to people.

So I don't know.

Do you have any thoughts on that?

Maybe is I, I don't know.

What, where does that, where does that take you in your mind like that?

I'm curious.

Like you said, like the being able to banish 'em, they were such a

big part of me, those feelings, I couldn't just banish 'em.

They were overwhelming.

So I think there was part of our, you know, when we're in our community, one

of the things that we spoke about once was having those feelings alongside you.

And doing some of those, those practices anyway.

So visualizing them for me, I visualize them as a, as something, you know, and I

put them in my, I think, I don't know if we'd spoken about the different ways of

doing that, but I put them in my pocket.

Real quick sidebar, what she's referring to when she says visualizing and the

whole pocket thing, she's referring to a practice called permitting at level one.

Permitting at level one, uh, teaches how to use your imagination or

imagery in order to permit an emotion that is otherwise too much like,

uh, pressure or guilt or whatever.

So we use our imagination and then invite it to be with us

as we also do something else.

This is a level one easier, um, compared to level two, which has

a much deeper felt sense, somatic experience of these emotions.

but I put them in my pocket.

So that meant that I didn't have to discard them.

I didn't have to banish them, I didn't have to push them away.

They were still with me and they were allowed to be with me, but I could

still do the other stuff as well.

And that felt better.

That felt safer for me 'cause I wasn't, you know, I was scared about banishing

them all together 'cause what, who was I if that, if that all went away?

And I was already feeling numb and disconnected, so it was a scary thing

to think that I, I wasn't gonna have that last little bit of feeling.

So I think being able to put it in my pocket and stay with it so it didn't

go away and, and function and continue in those daily practices was good.

It was good.

It was where I was able to do that and, um, yeah, accept, and like I

said before, not think through it.

You know, I, I stopped thinking and I started just going, okay, I'm

just gonna put this in my pocket.

It doesn't have to go away.

It doesn't have to be anywhere besides with me.

It's okay for it to be with me, um, but I'm still gonna go and sit in

nature, or I'm still gonna go and have that cup of tea and be mindful, so

I start treating it like the enemy.

Yeah.

Stop treating it like the enemy do.

And you've,

Yeah.

hearing that you also got closer, not just in your pocket, but like you

actually got closer to or are feeling it.

Directly as well.

Not just

hmm.

visualization, that's one skill, but you've gone to the next level, which is

feeling it compassionately from safety

Hmm.

and mindfully connecting with it.

Hmm.

Hmm.

Yes.

Yeah, that was the key- from safety, I think.

And that was, it was timing a lot of it, but a mindful timing, you know,

being understood that, you know, before it would, sometimes that feeling would

ambush me or hijack me, you know?

And um, and it would come at times that I wasn't wanting it to come, and then I

would feel dysregulated and, you know, go down back into that shutdown state.

But if I'm mindfully and, you know, with choice, um and volition, I

suppose, put myself in a place where I knew I was safe and then allowed

myself to, to go to that feeling space.

It, it felt more manageable.

Definitely.

Thanks so much for joining me here on Stuck, Not Broken,

and thank you again, Eva.

Dear listener, I hope this episode has helped you realize

that unstuck is not easy, but it can be practical and methodical.

Heck yes, it takes dedication just like Eva's.

But if you don't have that much motivation right now, that's okay.

You do have enough motivation to search for this topic and to watch this video

in particular all the way to the end.

You obviously have some level of motivation, so let's use that.

So I invite you to pick one thing to accomplish right now, to start or continue

down your unstuck path . I know there are tons of options and you don't know

where to begin, so make it super simple by mindfully connecting with one of your

senses for 30 seconds or less, that's fine too, or longer, that's fine, too.

Use one sense.

And bring as much of your full attention to the experience of it that you can

notice how using that one sense affects your breathing and your muscle tension.

And if you can do that, then repeat it tomorrow.

This is how you start.

Connect with the environment, using your senses for 30 seconds or less or more,

but aim for something short and sweet.

Eva, you are absolutely killing it.

Keep going.

Thank you again so much for sharing your success and I cannot wait to

hear about what else opens up for you.

Dear listener, if you would like to join the Untucking Academy, you can learn

more through the link in the description.

It is JustinLMFT.com/UnstuckingAcademy.

In the Academy, you can connect with amazing people like Eva.

You can get, uh, super simple steps to help build safety and you can learn how to

get unstuck so you can finally live with more calm, confidence, and connection.

Thank you once again for joining me.

Bye.