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Here at Early Excellence we specialise in early childhood education. We offer expert advice and guidance through training, consultancy and classroom design. With the Early Excellence podcast we aim to inspire and support you as well as challenge your thinking. So if that's what you're looking for, you've come to the right place.

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Hello everybody, Andy Burt here. Welcome along to episode 103 of the Early Excellence podcast. In this week's episode, we talk to Rachel Young from Hawkeshead Primary School in Cumbria. Now Rachel teaches in a small school with a mixed age class. And I caught up with her to discuss how she makes this work, how she makes it work effectively for all of her children. So here you go. Here's my Early Excellence podcast chat with Rachel Young.

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Thank you so much for joining us. How are you? You're all right? Hello. I'm fine, thank you. Yes, yes. It's very wintry where we are at the moment. So we've had all the snow this week. So we're still dealing with the snow. A lot of it's slush and a lot of it's still icy, but the children are absolutely enjoying the play times this week. And we've been out as much as we can. They've all brought their sleigh in. They're going down the hill slaying on their sledges. So it's been absolutely brilliant. We've been...

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In our class, we've been bashing everything, all the things that should be made up of ice this week. So in our mud kitchen, everything's turned to ice. And all they wanted was to smash and bash it. And I've hid some dinosaurs last night for them. And we had a train of plastic dinosaurs leading outside and we found them all contained in ice within the mud kitchen this morning. Sounds good. I have to say, I think of all of the schools that I visit, I think your school is in...

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the most idyllic situation of any school really that I know. Could you just tell us, give us a bit of an introduction if you wouldn't mind, give us an introduction to yourself and your role at the school but also tell us about the school as well because it is absolutely in the heart of the Lake District isn't it? Tell us all about it, tell us about yourself first of all. Okay so I'm a class teacher at Holtzhead Essoe Primary School and Forest Nursery so we have a

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forest nursery is part of our school. We are, as you said before, we are a small rural school, a nursery in the village of Hawkshead in the heart of the Lake District, and I feel very lucky to be able to live and be able to work in such a beautiful and, like you said, picturesque, idyllic part of the country. So our school compromises of three classes, including the forest nursery. I teach class one, that includes reception year one and year two.

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So I teach full time. I also have an absolutely wonderful TA who's also with me all the time. In school, I lead art and I also lead design and technology. And I'm also the EYFS lead. Sometimes laugh about this because I'm actually the only EYFS teacher in the school. So of course I'm the EYFS lead. So you're leading yourself. I'm leading myself, yes. Yes. I'm actually still in my first teaching post and I'm now in my seventh year.

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I was trying to work it out yesterday, so my first reception cohort are now in their final year here. So yeah, I'm in my seventh year. Previous to this, I was a teaching assistant for a number of years. I've also worked in a preschool with younger children and I was actually, before that, I was actually a nanny where I looked after babies. So in a way, I feel I've gained a really good understanding of children's development and their needs in the early years.

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and also good understanding of what they need in the start of their school journey. Yeah, oh, definitely, definitely, absolutely. And I have to say as well, we've met each other a number of times, haven't we? I've been to Hawke's Head and I've delivered training there. You are one of our hubs for training, aren't you? So teachers, head teachers, different staff from schools come along to the primary school, don't they? And they come along to training there.

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but also I've supported you over time in terms of practice and we've worked together in terms of developing the practice. So I feel like I know the school well, but I also know you and I know your practice well. So when we were thinking about putting together a podcast on mixed-age classes, I thought of you straight away. I thought about you and I thought about your practice straight away, because there are so many things to celebrate about your practice. You do it so well. And so I wanted to...

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see if we could capture some of that on the podcast really. So to capture some of your ideas, some of your thinking, some of the things that you've put in place and so on. Okay, so starting off then on mixed age classes, you've got your mixed age EYFS and Key Stage 1 class, okay? Tell us about the age ranges. Tell us about how you make sure that each range, each age range really gets what they need because there's a broad range there, isn't there?

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So how do you make sure that each age range gets what they need when they're there? There is a broad age range. And obviously I've got reception year one and year two. So you've got three year groups there, age four to seven years. So to ensure all our children get what they need, the first thing we do is we always find out where the children are at, where they are at when they start reception, and also where they are at at the start of going into year one and year two.

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And then we think about their next steps and what they need and where they need support. And we obviously do that at different times again during the year. We always do our own baseline for the children as they start reception alongside the required RBA assessment. This provides us with essential information about the children's social skills, their language and communication and also their physical needs.

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Year one and two, they obviously have skills and knowledge, expectations linked to the national curriculum. So when planning, we bear those in mind, but we are also always thinking about what the children need and what their next steps are. So for example, some year one children may still need to, and should do, access the reception curriculum and they can do that in my class, while other year one children, they may be at the stage where they can be working alongside or accessing the year two.

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So my planning needs to be carefully thought through. There'll be times when everyone is working together and we're always doing the same thing but there'll be different things also going on at the same time at different times as well during the day. So for example in maths and the other day our theme was 3D shapes. So we started together and now I was getting the different 3D shapes out of the bag and we were talking about them.

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looking at the various shapes and the features. So for the reception children, they were really focusing on the recognition of the shape and the name of the shape. And also for the year one, it was a bit of a recap for them. Maybe they were thinking about perhaps the faces or the edges. And I also had some focus questions. Now those focus questions were aimed at the year two. They were about, oh, how many faces does a cube have? How many edges, how many vertices does it have? But actually...

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Even though the reception were there, they were still listening and they were still learning and joining in. So after this, the children went off to do different activities. So the reception, they went off to build with the 3D blocks and they were absolutely immersed in this activity because we had just talked about the 3D shapes and actually later on, they were actually using some of the language. They're going, oh, pass me the cube, pass me the cuboid.

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two children, they had some questions in their book, and which is linked to the different features of 3D shape. And then myself, I was working with year one, and it was just, it was a game shape. So although we all started together, we were all learning together, some of the learning was, the questioning was aimed at year two, but the reception joined in, they were looking at the recognition, the year one, they were looking at a recap of the shapes. So we all start together, but we all also.

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doing our own thing after. Yeah, that makes perfect sense. It really does. What I like as well is the way that you've got so many different ways for teaching to happen and for learning to happen in that it's not all about your directed teaching, it's a combination of the directed teaching with then smaller group work, with then children accessing a rich environment because of course one of your strengths is that you've really thought carefully about that environment. So

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shape, when you were talking about the properties of shape, you knew that actually almost wherever those children go within your learning environment, you've got opportunities for matching, for sorting, for using the different 3D shapes. You've got so many opportunities to link what they're doing to the overall objective around the properties of shape. But yeah, I think that comes across really well and certainly when I see it in practice, I think it's really powerful.

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that actually you've got such a great way of combining different teaching methods or different teaching styles, if you like, opportunities for children to learn in a variety of ways, but also to embed learning really well over time, in that they've got the environment to use to embed that learning. Yeah, no, I think that's fab. That's absolutely brilliant. Really powerful stuff.

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in my planning classroom management plays such an important role. I may be working with one group, my TA may be working with another group and there might be a group working independently as well. But when you're planning, you also have to plan well, actually, is that independent group? Are they actually able to get on with that activity on their own? And actually, what are you wanting them to do? Are you just filling that time because they have to be independent? Or if you've carefully planned it, they're doing something where.

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they're still learning and moving their learning on, but actually been able to work independently. So that's one thing I do really think in my planning, I have to make sure it's planned really effectively where the adults are, what are we doing, which children are we going to be working with, which children need the support at this point, whether it's in the continuous provision, whether it's working in a focus group or doing, say, a game on another table. Yes, no, absolutely.

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Yeah, no, definitely. I think it's always interesting as well, whenever, quite often when people talk about mixed-age classes, quite often people talk about it with a sort of slightly negative slant in that, you know, if someone's just found out that actually they're going to have a mixed-age class, then actually they will talk about it often kind of with a bit of a sort of apprehension, I suppose, understandably.

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But also, there's that kind of worry about, well, how do I do it? How do we manage that? And because I'm always aware that actually, when often people talk about mixed-age classes, it kind of feels a little bit negative. I wanted to ask you about the benefits of teaching within a mixed-age class, but also the challenges as well, because there are challenges, aren't there? So...

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What are the benefits and the challenges of working within a mixed-age class? Okay, there are definitely challenges having a mixed-age class, but I would say there's so many wonderful benefits of a mixed-year class which outweigh the challenges. So I would say when the children start school, they have so many super role models from the older children. They've got the year one, year two children there, they're wonderful role models.

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This helps the new children copy and learn the routine quicker, the older children help and show them how to do things. So the reception children become confident in using the resources quickly and it gives them the encouragement to try new things. For example, we might be outside and they may see the year two children running along and jumping over crates. Well, actually, a four year old looking at might think...

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I want to do that. So it does it gives them the confidence to try new things by looking at those older children. I also feel my classroom is it's language rich and that's the kind of environment I'm trying to create. I'm on a language rich classroom. And again, the older children are great models for language. They're introducing the new children to new words, new phrases, and so it's amazing to see. All the work we do

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caters for all the children, all the different age children. So of course, much of it is aimed at the older children. So all the children are immersed and experience this. For example, when I was talking about freely shape the other day, and we were talking about the faces and the edges and the vertices, the older children also listened. I mentioned this a bit earlier. And they were learning, even though my questions were mainly aimed at the older children. But interestingly, when I then came over to

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watched the reception children playing with the blocks. They were talking about the faces of the shapes and the names of the shapes. That was fabulous to see. Another benefit, which I think I mentioned earlier, the year ones, well, if they need to, they can work with the reception children. If I have a more able year one, they can work with the year two children. In a way, you can almost not think about the children being.

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in three separate year groups. But you can almost think of it as the children just work and do the activities that they need or fulfilling their needs. So in a way, you're not ignoring the fact there's three year groups, but actually what does this child need? Does it matter if the child's in year one or year two or reception? Actually, this child, actually they can be doing what the year ones are doing today. This child actually needs to work on their language and communication and their storytelling. So...

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they can come over and I'll work with them and support them alongside reception. So in that way, it's always thinking about what do all the different children need and what are their next steps rather than thinking they're three separate groups. Because I think that's where for yourself, if you keep thinking three separate groups, when it comes to your planning, you're not going to manage it because you're trying to think, right, you've got to learn that, well, let me check, you've got to learn that and you've got to learn that. Yes.

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up if you know what I mean. Yeah, then that's impossible. You end up with sort of three completely different things that you're planning in a way or more and you end up with sort of tying yourself up in knots trying to deliver to three different groups almost. Whereas of course, in a way I think what's great about your practice is that as you mentioned you just get to know your children. You have this wealth of understanding about how young children

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from your experiences previously, working with young children over a number of years, you know how young children go about learning and you know about those small steps in learning that in order for children to make progress, actually they need to make lots of small steps. And so you as an adult within the classroom, you as a teacher within the classroom, you identify for that group of children, what are those small steps? For each individual, what are the small steps?

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And of course you benefit but from having a small class. You haven't got 30 or more children. You've got a smaller number of children. But of course you've still got a range of ages within that small group. And so you've still got to meet their need. And I love the way you really tune into each individual's need. I also think as well that, and you mentioned this, or you certainly alluded to this earlier.

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that the children are with you for a longer period of time. You know, they come to you in reception, they're still with you in year one, they're still with you in year two. And so actually, there's this great atmosphere, I think, in your classroom, where actually the children know you really well, and you know the parents really well, because actually this is about trust being built up over time, and this relationship that's being built up over time, where you just know those children incredibly well.

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It's not a short-term thing. It's not even a one-year thing. It's actually something that's built on it over time. And you, in a way, you've taken away the transitions, which I think again is another benefit. The transition from year group to year group to year group has gone. They're with you the whole time. And actually, that means you carry on from where you left off. You know, in September each year, you carry on from where you left off. Don't you? You don't lose any time getting to know the children. You're straight in there.

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And so, yeah, I think there are so many things that you do so well. There are, and I completely agree with you. We get to know the children really well and the families as well. And we build up that relationship with the child and the families and vice versa. I mean, for some children, it can take a couple of terms for them to feel really relaxed and comfortable with you. And sometimes I think, oh, if it was a single year group, in a few months, you'd be going. You'd be a driving and a big school.

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won't actually see you much again or talk to your family again but actually they're with me for at least two or three years. You do build that wonderful bond also. When the children get to year two, well wow, they love being the oldest. At some point they're going to be the oldest and you know they love setting the example to the other children what they can do. They love helping the younger children and that's such a great thing to see happening in my class. Yes, yeah, no, absolutely.

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Absolutely. And the other thing that I was going to say is that it strikes me as well that I think the temptation with a mixed age class where you've got reception year one and year two is to do a very top-down approach where basically whatever you're doing for your older children, your year two children, you're kind of doing the same thing for your reception and year one children just slightly watered down.

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so that in a way the pedagogy is basically the same kind of thing. Whereas it strikes me that actually, certainly in terms of objectives, as you talked about earlier, yes, you might start with your older children and actually what do we need to get them to learn so that you're not tying yourself up and not, so you start with that. But in terms of the pedagogy, actually it strikes me that you've started the other way overall.

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that what you do is you start with a really well planned learning environment. You make sure that it's language rich, which is what you talked about earlier. You make sure that actually there are so many opportunities to embed learning within that space and that space is not just for the reception children, but it's also for the year one children to access and for the year two children to access. They do at different points or at times within the day. But that you're not

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In a way, you're building in terms of the pedagogy, you're building on the EYFS practice, but in terms of the objectives, you're looking at it in quite a challenging way in terms of year two objectives and how you can get the most out of it. So it's almost like a meeting of two different things, if you see what I mean. Does that make sense? Yes, definitely, I agree with you. I agree with you. I think a well-planned classroom environment and an outdoors environment, it's essential for a child's learning.

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Indoor, so in my classroom, each area is planned and resourced according to the child's needs, again taking into account their next steps with regards to the areas of learning. So the provision generally stays the same. I think this is important for revisiting and building upon key skills and then we enhance the areas as we feel we need to. For example, if we're talking about 3D shapes

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is organized so that each 3D shape sits on a cutout shadow. So the children right from the start, as they enter the reception, then they're matching shapes. I've also labeled the shadow cutouts, naming each shape, also including some language about size, such as I've got a label that says long cuboids, and then I have one that says short cuboids. And this engages the older children as well. I want to see them use the shape names and the language of size in their play.

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but you'll also find the older ones starting to do the same as well. In my outdoors, we have a large shed full of wonderful resources. And what I tend to do is I introduce different resources, say every week for the first half term. That way the children can learn and explore how to use them properly and discover what they can then do with them before we introduce for them the next set of resources.

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So in the second half term, the children are then able to come into the shed and choose what they want to use or what they want to do. Over time, I'll observe, they may observe the other children and see what they are playing with or how they're playing. And the play and learning just evolves over time. It may become more physical, it may become more adventurous, it may become more creative.

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their constructions maybe become more elaborate and it's a really great thing to see. Yeah, no, fantastic and you can definitely see that, can't you? Over time you can see that progression. I've been, as I said earlier, I've been lucky enough to come to you at times in the autumn term, sometimes in the spring term, sometimes in the summer term. And during that period I've seen children just getting used to materials and resources, just picking them up, having a look at them, wondering about the possibilities of them.

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being introduced to certain resources, I've then seen in the spring term, the children really starting to flourish with those materials, really starting to get to grips with what they can do. And of course then more progression as you go through into the summer term. And the beauty of it, as you mentioned earlier, in terms of mixed-age classes, is that if you've introduced them really well in reception to your children, then actually you've got...

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that introduction, you've got that starting off point, but you've also got older children there who can model and scaffold for the other children. And I think that's really powerful. I think we often underestimate the real power of children learning from one another. That actually sometimes, you know, we put a lot of, well, a lot of the time, we put a lot of emphasis on the adults to be the ones doing the teaching and to be the ones in control of the learning. And I understand that. I get that.

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the reason why that is. But actually, if you're in that sort of situation where you've got children coming through and you've got year two children in the same classroom, it of course makes sense that you really play to your strengths there. You can see that your children have had things shown to them, modeled for them, because actually they then become the people who are modeling for the younger children. And that's the beauty of it, isn't it?

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Yes, definitely. I definitely agree there. Yeah, but interestingly, the opposite would be true if you didn't do it well. You know, potentially, if you didn't do it well, if you didn't introduce the resources well, if you didn't have high expectations, potentially you'd have negative behaviors being modeled for the younger children and then it would break down. So you can see that it works because you put such a lot of emphasis on doing it well from the start. So, no, that's that's absolutely fantastic.

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Just bear with me a second. I wanted to ask you about the impact of all of this. So the impact of all of that work you put into it. So you do all of that planning, all of that thought, all of that discussion in terms of between you and your team, but also as well, of course, that learning environment that we talked about, all of the planning for that. And what do you see in terms of the impact?

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in a variety of different ways. So not just what you would expect in terms of the teaching and learning, but what do you see in terms of the impact on your children?

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I think the impact has been quite significant really. The children are able to work really well with other children. So they can work collaborating on a project, sharing ideas, but they can also work very independently too. They know this routine very well. They know where everything goes and belongs and they know how to use everything. But they're also learning new things all the time and finding new ways to do things. So that...

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always developing their knowledge and their skills. And this is happening all the time, every day. If we were to think about the characteristics of effective learning, then there is so much of the different learning going on, whether they are measuring with different size containers in the water tray, or they may be exploring ways to shape the dough, the dough area. They might be making up stories with the puppet.

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or they may be doing an activity or a game with an adult. There is so much learning happening and great progress being made all of the time. Yes, definitely. Absolutely, and as I said before, I can see that. I can see that. And it's that understanding, I think, of all of the things that underpin teaching and learning, that it's not just about your objectives, is it? You know, learning the properties of shape. No, absolutely not.

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All of it's important, isn't it? But it's not just that. So it's not just the property of shape, it's not just the phonics teaching, it's not just... it's all of those things, but it's also providing an environment where these children flourish and flourish in terms of those attributes, those learning attributes, that curiosity, that wondering, that problem, those problem-solving skills, all of those characteristics of effective learning.

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What I love about your practice is that you can see the characteristics of effective learning really being valued not just because of your context, not just within reception, but actually you can see the characteristics of effective learning being valued in year one and year two and actually knowing your school beyond that as well because there's an understanding in terms of the team that actually it's not just about what you deliver.

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It's not just about what you bring to the children, but actually about whether you are creating those optimum, the optimum environment or the optimum point for learning. You know, the children are engaged, fascinated when they're wondering or asking questions, whatever it might be, they're at the optimum point for learning and you make sure that they are. So now I always find it really interesting to visit, really, really interesting to visit.

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So yeah, so thank you so much. Thank you. Yeah, now thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. It's been really, really interesting to talk through with you. As I say, I think sometimes mixed-age classes get a bit of a negative press, and I think it's quite, and I get that, it's challenging. I understand it's challenging, but I think it's really refreshing to talk to somebody who's actually really positive about being in a mixed, having a mixed-age class and what they can do within a mixed-age classroom. So yeah, I know.

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I agree. I'm always positive about it. And like you say, people have connotations of it being really negative and really hard work, but actually, there is so many benefits. There are a lot of little challenges, such as the management of the class and the way adults are working. And it just takes, I think, just really, really careful for a planning, just really concentrating on what the different children need and what their next steps are. But actually.

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the benefits that we've discussed completely outweigh those that I don't really think if there are any challenges if your plannings do well actually it's not a challenge because actually the children are benefiting from it and like you said it's just so nice to see those children learn, gain all those skills and just flourish, just flourish in those three years that they're there with me and I like to think they leave my class and they continue feeling just really confident.

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We're like one big family at our school, we're a small school but it's like one big family. Every teacher knows every child, not just their name, but they know them really well. And each child knows each teacher, we know the families really well as well. We get to know the families who have that really good relationship with all the families around here. So I count myself really, really lucky to be able to work in such a lovely small...

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Small rural school with a mixed-age class. Well, the children are very lucky to have you. Very lucky to have you. Rachel, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. It's been great to chat to you. You take care and I'll see you soon. Thank you very much. Bye. Take care, bye-bye.

30:13

So there you have it. Thank you very much to Rachel for joining us for this week's episode of the podcast. Definitely lots there to get us thinking, particularly if you're a teacher or practitioner within a mixed age class. Lots there to reflect on, particularly I think the importance of that learning environment, not just for our youngest children, but actually for children within Key Stage 1 as well, they still need those hands-on experiences. And an effectively planned learning environment really can support with...

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meeting the needs of the different ages within a mixed age class, I think. So yes, thank you to Rachel, really interesting conversation and thank you to you people for listening along as well. That's about it for this week. So thank you so much for joining us and we'll see you next time.