Washington Square. On air is the audio town square for the Washington Square Review. Lansing Community College's literary journal. Writers, readers, scholars, publishing professionals, citizens of the world, gather here and chat about all things writing.

Hey there. This is Melissa Ford Lucken, editor of the Washington Square Review. I'm here today with Grady VanWright, whose short story the Wormhole Killers is in our Summer 25 issue. Hey there, Grady.

Hey, Melissa. Thanks for having me.

For sure. So tell us a little about, about your piece and how you came to write it.

Well, I wrote Wormhole Killers as a kind of experiment. I never tackled sci fi before, especially not a sci fi thriller. And to push myself even further, I decided to write it in a hyper minimalist style, which I've never, I've never done that before. Every word had to justify itself on the page and that was challenging to me. That meant no exposition, no scientific dumps, no dialogue, and almost no traditional explanation of science behind time travel. So there's no talk of paradoxes, no time dilation. Instead, I lean hard into the tension and pace and physicality. About 80% of the story is just raw, brutal, visceral combat.

Give us a little mini summary for anyone who hasn't read the piece.

Sure. It's set during JFK's assassination. The two time travelers show up in Dallas from the future. One's a government agent and the other's a terrorist. Once there, the agent is actually there to protect Oswald and the other is there to kill him, the terrorist. Ironically, what unfolds is a relentless deadly chase through the streets leading up to those infamous shots. The twist is neither man's really a hero. The agent knows he's keeping a terrible event intact, historical event intact, for the sake of the future. He struggles with that. He hesitates, but in the end he does his job. So it's a really fast paced story and really stripped down to just that cold encounter and desperate encounter. And that was the goal. I wanted to sort of have Hemingway meet sci fi.

When you originally wrote it. You've mentioned a couple times about paring it down when you originally wrote it. Was it longer?

It was, it was a longer short story. But again, I wanted to, to try it in that whole flash idea, you know, where it's just, just really pared down to the, to the necessary words. Got rid of every extraneous I could find and it really did have an effect. I thought, I thought it was an improvement. In the end. That's one of the most challenging things in writing. I write pretty fearlessly and pretty freely. I'LL just get the words out there. And I'm learning how to edit mercilessly and which is. Which is challenging to do because I do love words right. And I hate to see any of my little babies leave.

Well, you can always just, you know, cut them out and hang them on the fridge or something. So you still have. What prompted you to write this particular story?

I read a couple of articles in some science magazines on time travel that just sort of captivated me. And then I thought about what would it be like, you know, just in my mind, I have a pretty vivid imagination. I was wondering what it would be like to have two men engage in this way. Both have a lot at stake. I mean, there's just a lot. The stakes are high and have no hero in it. That yes, the agent is there to stop the terrorist from killing Oswald. Because history needs to proceed in a way that. That it's already laid out. And for whatever reason they're thinking, if you change this, as horrific and horrible as an assassination attempt is, what would it do to remaining history? And so it just kind of started that way. And as I started to write it, I definitely didn't want to put in all of the science behind it and, you know, the implications of those things and. And got down to this idea that people do make these kind of decisions and that it might resonate with folks when. When you engaged in something that's best for the whole, but it doesn't quite leave you better. And that's kind of where it ends at the end of the story where. Where he's successful, but he's also. He holds a regret that'll be with him. And again, it's just a form of Marine. I remember that sort of thing. I do remember that sort of thing. One other thing that comes to mind is we talked earlier just about that back my background as a combat Marine and the reason that it's 80% or so just violent, it's not gratuitous. I didn't mean for it to be gratuitous in any way. But what I wanted to do was to lay out in a very accurate way what that kind of combat looks like. You know, a lot of times readers will read things that it'll be more like. Like boxing. I was an actually and I was. I was an amateur boxer younger in life and as well. And that kind of physical contest was totally different than being a Marine. In a physical confrontation, one is just to simply dominate an opponent. The other is to eviscerate an opponent. And those Two are so, so different. And so that's why it's. It's. It's so clear. I wanted to bring those experiences to the page and let it bleed on the page and let people see what it really feels like. I think there's a line in the. In the story there where I describe a punch as a cartilage crunching. People speak about the sounds of that kind of thing, you know, and so. Yeah, yeah. So I. I wanted to put those experiences in it with the stakes being as high as they were. So that's kind of how I got to Wormhole Killers. Honestly, it was an experiment. After I wrote it, I thought, well, wow, let's see what sick publisher publishes this.

I think there's a lot of artistry in paring back the. The technical information. The sciency information.

Yes.

And perhaps even overloading on the setting, because that's. That's always the trick with science fiction is how far in the front is the story and the characterization versus the science y. Setting. Technical stuff. Because there's.

Yeah.

There's a lot of variation in science fiction with. And so to me, if you had included a lot of the, you know, sciencey setting. How does this happen? That kind of technical information, it would have kind of muted the more human aspects of the conflict.

I thought so as well. And again, explanations. And one of the things. Again, as you could tell, I'm a Hemingway fan. You know, I definitely. Writing is hard. You know, this. It's difficult, but you don't want to do all the heavy lifting. You want the reader to utilize your imagination as well and engage the piece. So I did. I definitely didn't want to overwrite or just over explain or bog the reader down into. Because I wanted to immerse them in the experience itself.

Yeah. And also leave space for them to interpret it the way that they interpret it.

Absolutely, Absolutely. Absolutely.

How does this piece fit in with other of your creative writing.

Other than the. The minimalism that's. That's in it? Not much. This truly was an experimentation. The only thing that I can say would be closer to this type of a writing for me would be one of my most recent projects, which. Getting into horror poetry, which is. Which is a little bit different. Poetry is my first love, but I've never written horror poetry. So I did something based on Haunted Houston. And it's pretty close to it in terms of the. The tactile type of experience you'll get from it. And just the visceral aspect of it. You'll get that a Lot in the Haunted Houston.

Poetry is your first love. Talk a little bit about that. How did that happen?

It is actually. I got into poetry very, very young age, but not in the usual way. Most kids fall in love with Dr. Seuss, of course, who I enjoyed as well. But for me, I had an uncle, Uncle Ersby, who was larger than life character, a merchant marine. And whenever his ship came into the port of Houston, my dad and I would go to pick him up and he had these wild, fast paced limericks that he would rattle off and of course they would be totally inappropriate. And I remember one time he launched into one and my mom immediately dragged me into the kitchen while my dad just lost it, laughing like crazy. And I remember standing there thinking, wow, words can make people laugh and get mad at the same time.

Were these limericks that he himself wrote or. These are. He acquired them from other people.

He acquired them from other people, I'm sure because you know, he did a lot of traveling and when he unleashed it really just struck me. And that moment made me realize I love poetry and I, I did like I love Dr. Seuss, but he never quite impacted me like Uncle Earth.

Well, it sounds like you were drawn to the. The intense emotion that could be, you.

Know, generated behind the dance.

Yes, and the variety of it.

Yeah, exactly. And I really discovered the power of poetry for me at that time. And so I became that guy pretty. At a pretty young age. You know, I think the path for me just in terms of writing path, if we're going that direction, it started me on that path, without a doubt. And I think my path is a little different than most in a lot of ways. I've been writing for more than 25 years, but just for the joy of it. Not really thinking about publishing until recently. So over time I built a pretty significant archive of probably over 400 poems and short stories and a couple of one act plays and even some essays that I've done recently. And now that I'm retired, I finally have the time and space to. To just write full time with no pressure. And I'm really grateful, I'm really grateful to the publishers who have picked up my work. It's an honor every time. But honestly, I just love writing for the sake of it. For me, it's not about chasing a career, but it's about the love of the craft. And I love living for writing rather than writing for a living. Honestly, I just, I enjoy doing it and so. But it is an interesting transition. I'm always asked about that by other Writers that just say, wow, you are just starting to pursue publishing. And yeah, I wrote for myself. A good friend of mine, Professor Hamilton, here in Houston, he said, why have you not sought publication? I said, well, I just enjoy writing for my own pleasure. And he says, when are you going to give the rest of us an opportunity?

Well, yeah, I mean, writing for your own pleasure is a very different thing than trying to get something published. And sometimes trying to get published can squeeze the joy right out of the writing.

I've seen that. Yes, I certainly have seen that.

That's not good. You mentioned being a combat Marine, and I'm wondering, did you write creatively during that time period?

Not during that time, but after. And honestly, for me, it was. It was so therapeutic to be.

That's what I was wondering.

It absolutely was, you know, trying to process things that you didn't have the time or ability to process at that moment. And later on, in a reflective moment in time, you're able to sit and just work through this. You know, I think it helped my writing. It certainly did that I wrote before I went in, but I didn't get back to writing till after. And I have a few poems that came out of the Beirut era where I served, and, you know, I kept those.

Do you notice a difference in your approach to the creative process when you think of your writing before and writing after?

Yes, I think for me, the writing before lacked the introspection that. That I think I developed later. And the philosophical underpinnings of my writing, I think was. Was affected by those experiences in the service, for example, I don't know that I had a great deal of philosophical underpinning before, but after, in processing my experiences like, I kind of felt I was drawn to reading more philosophical writings, and that. And that sort of helped ground my writings philosophically. I think one of the first real pieces that I gravitated towards were those works by Albert Camus. And so I remember reading the Myth of Sisyphus and the Stranger, the novel he had. The Stranger.

What about those in particular do you think impacted you?

Well, I think for me, I really struggle with the idea of meaning at the time, trying to figure things out and trying to find meaning in the midst of it all. And I just think the absurdist kind of philosophy help me to deal with that a little bit more, to accept that there may not be a whole lot of meaning. And so some of my writings kind of have that in it, to where the protagonist or hero or subject of a poem, a character of a poem would Just be one that can navigate through the absurdity in the world.

I was thinking about your experience as a combat Marine and how that's not something that other people can relate to because they haven't had an experience quite like that.

Right.

So I wonder if there was something in those particular works that helped you work through that.

Yes, definitely. You know, we all struggle. Every veteran struggles when they get out of service and especially out of a combat situation and back into what we used to call the real world. There's always this gulf and chasm between experiences. And really, we build the bridge and not require the rest of the world to build a bridge to get to us, if that makes any sense. Because we know what's on the other side. We were there with them or we left, but they don't know what's on this other side. So we build the bridge. We learn to do that. And in writing, I like to do that as well. A matter of fact, most people are pretty surprised after reading a lot of my writing or whatever, or reading my writing, they would be surprised that I actually endured those kind of experiences because they always felt like I was well adjusted. Now, I don't know how true that is, but writing has certainly helped me to think more deeply about myself, more deeply about the world, more deeply about people around me. It even helps me in character development. So when I think about writing a character, I remember one author basically was suggesting that, you know, yeah, you know, create these characters, but remember, they're not you. I don't know if you've ever had that issue as well, where you write a character or you write a book or a piece or whatever, and people wonder if it's. Oh, for sure, yeah. And it could be some heinous individual, and they wonder if it's biographical, you know, autobiographical, and. And you're like, no. But, you know, for me, I. I think that no matter what character I create, they're not being created out of fiat. And, you know, I'm putting some of my DNA in them. And so that. That sort of helps me. And I'm saying that it helps me in the sense that, again, it becomes a bridge where I can. I can reach across, I can grab that part of my heart and memory and. And shape it into a character that I can at least control, if that makes sense.

Is it accurate to say that the character then would have some aspects of you, but then other aspects that it. Where it moves away from you and you're.

Absolutely, absolutely. Absolutely. And that helps me to be able to. To Create. Because I don't know that on my own I could come up with some of the evil characters. But, yeah, I think we all have a little of it in us. When we. When we create a character, he's not coming out of nowhere. Definitely coming from somewhere.

Do you ever use other people as inspirations in terms of. In terms of character development, creating characters?

Yes, absolutely. I may have one character that's based on two or three people I know and different aspects of their life and character.

Do you tell the people?

It depends on how bad I make that character.

Some people, I think they, you know, they know it's a character in a story. I think they would be intrigued to see a version of themselves that's quite dark.

My friends even look for their names in my character.

Do you find people might recognize themselves at all or.

I have had that happen, yes.

Okay. And how did that go over?

It went over well because they were, you know, in a pretty honorable life. So it worked out well. It worked out well because they were. They were cast into pretty honorable lights.

Okay, well, now that we're talking about it, I would be interested to have somebody turn me into a bad character. I want to see what that looks like, you know?

Yeah, yeah, it'd be fun.

I want to back up and talk a little bit about the poetry. When you first started writing sounds like you were writing it for yourself. And kind of where I'm going with this is I'm wondering if. If when you kind of reflect back, if you can see the difference of the creative process when you were really writing for yourself for a therapeutic outlet, you know, versus later.

I got you. Yes, yes, yes, definitely. So definitely a transition there. And it doesn't take you long to find that transition when you. And one of the things that helped me. I immersed myself in the, I guess, milieu, as it were, of other authors and writers were publishing, whether it be Forums, New York Poet Society. I became part of the. And it helped me because now I'm immersed in a group of individuals and perspectives that helped me to transition because that was a transitional period.

Oh, for sure.

And they. And they were able to say, well, writing for yourself and writing for. For others to enjoy and appreciate us is different. And there's a sensitivity now to things, well, how many stanzas should you write? Because I used. I write long poetry, so attention spans and just practical things, but also resisting it totally changing your style. That was very difficult for me. And I'd be interested to even hear your perspective on how did you navigate through that to where, yes, you need to accommodate it, but at the same time, you don't want to step outside of your voice and style and who you are. And that, you know, that became a challenge. But the more and more I would read about poetry from other poets, it helped me to be able to say, okay, yeah, I can cut this. I can adjust this to help make it more palatable to an audience without feeling like I've, you know, just compromised.

Do you think it could be when you're thinking about the audience? Okay, because I'm kind of thinking sincere, like Ask said, you know, what do I think about that? I started to think about the way that the audience can vary from, you know, work to work. And when I imagine a particular audience, a specific, ideal audience, it can get pretty small. And so you might actually be writing for a smaller group rather than writing for a larger group.

That's absolutely true. If you go for kind of the universal consumption, that is. That is different. Getting a niche, niche group who would appreciate what. What you write. That is so. And that. That has been a challenge. And that's where I think the forums came in pretty handy, you know, like Open Arts Forum, which is very good for me. Being in that environment has been really good for that, because you do see and you do find those people, those writers who are very similar to your style and the way that you do things, and those that are very different, but yet you get to hear those perspectives and it broadens your horizons and views. So I found myself broadening quite a bit by doing that. So I'm not an isolated writer. I just think that the. The best thing I could have done was to immerse myself by the writers and groups and in societies.

What I'm thinking about, from what you just said about the different groups, is when you're approaching your work and thinking about, you know, audience and revisions and changing it, a lot of times it's not a matter of, you know, better or worse. No, you know, it's just a matter of who's going to read it. And it can be rough when you get a whole bunch of different, varying feedback. I think you should do this, I think you should do that. And so you'll go, absolutely. And next thing you know, you know, you can end up just writing something to try and please everyone, and then now it's not any good at all.

You're absolutely right. And I have to say, you know, because I try to approach it in a humble way to where I can learn and understand, because I was never formally trained in it. So I needed to be able to be educated in a way. And so I just brought humility to the table. I would come and I would listen very carefully and consider all views, you know, so I would write a poem and go in. They would, they would hit me back and say, yeah, you know, that second stanza, I get rid of it altogether. And of course, that was the stanza I thought I really, really did. At the podcast, it's always the stuff.

You think is beautiful and wonderful. Everyone's like, ah.

But I learned to take it all in and listen to all of it and keep what's good. Keep what, what, what you really feel will improve the poem. And so I love the feedback. I love feedback. To me, that was never any, any bad feedback. It's just, it's good feedback. I just love to hear it and, and I'll apply it where I think it will improve the writing.

Yep. And sometimes you as a writer will receive feedback that is well intentioned and potentially meaningful, but doesn't click with your end goal. It's hard to learn what to set aside and what to act on.

It is. It is. It is. And you know, I love your earlier, your little analogy of putting it on a refrigerated door and just hold it all the time.

That's right.

But you know, a lot, a lot. Because of the large number of poems and short stories that accumulated over the years. Really, now that I'm starting to publish, most of my work really is pulling those out and doing more revisions and editing of them. So that's a lot of what I'm, what I do with my work right now. I do write some new things as well, but a lot of it is still the work that's just there that just needs to be fine tuned and edit it more.

And that's, that's kind of beautiful though, because it's. You're connecting with an earlier part of yourself and revisiting an earlier part of yourself. Yes. Yes, that's pretty awesome. If readers would like to check you out online and keep up with your writerly self, where can they find you?

Facebook, Instagram, both of those.

Okay, beautiful. We'll be sure to include the links in the show notes.

Wonderful.

Thanks a lot for coming in and talking to us today.

Thanks for having me. Melissa.

Thanks for stopping by the audio town square of the Washington Square Review. Until next time, this has been the Washington Square on air from Lansing Community College. To find out more about our writers, community and literary journal, visit. Elsa. Writing is messy, but do it anyway.