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Well, good evening and welcome to Crowd Church. Great to be with you this

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evening. My name is Matt, and beside me on my left I have the beautiful Anna.

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Anna, good evening.

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Good evening, everyone. Nice to be here again.

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Yeah, it is.

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It really is good to be here. Good to have you. And on my Right, is equally

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beautiful, Dave Connolly.

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Oh, thank you. It's great to be here.

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Oh, so that was an interesting shot there of the corner of my ear.

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I was going to say someone's knocked the camera.

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Yeah, I reckon that would have been Dan.

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It wasn't me.

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I definitely wasn't me. I haven't moved. Oh, it's all getting already—

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they're all taking responsibility.

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There's Dave, not to be confused with me or Matt. Yeah, yeah.

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And it's just, I just felt like Adam in the garden.

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Did you?

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Well, in the sense of it wasn't my fault, it was Eve's. I'm just like, it wasn't

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my fault, it was Dan's.

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Yeah.

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Straight away. If you're listening to this on the podcast, by the way, catching

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up and you're wondering what is going on, the cameras just got bashed. And so

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when we went to Dave's shop, it wasn't Dave, it was Anna's ear. Anyway, we're

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back to normal. Good to be with you all. Make sure you say hi in the comments as

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we will love to hear from you. Let us know where you're watching from in the

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world. What things are going on. And of course, today is a very special day,

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Dave. Today is Father's Day.

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It is?

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It is. And, uh, I, I quite enjoy— I was talking about it earlier— first time

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ever on Father's Day all my kids are out of England.

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Wow.

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I don't know what that says.

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It either says you're a really bad dad or you're a really good dad and you've

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launched them well. I'll go with the latter.

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Yeah, yeah, I'm gonna take that.

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Yeah, yeah, it's okay.

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It's all right, it's all right. So if my kids are watching, which I highly doubt

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because they hear my voice enough— uh, all right, kids. Um, but yeah, if you're

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a dad, happy Father's Day. Uh, I know Father's Day is not easy for everybody,

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um, but I'd like— I think it's good to celebrate Father's Day where we can, just

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because God is Father, right?

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Yeah.

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And so, um, yeah, whatever relationship you did or didn't have with your dad,

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uh, you can have a great relationship with God as Father, and it's probably just

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worth saying that.

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think that's so true.

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Fantastic. All right, well, on that bombshell, um, should we get on with it? So

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today Dave is speaking. Uh, we're going to start— we're talking about Jesus

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being the revolutionary. That's the whole series that we're in, and we're

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starting a sort of little subsection. Can I say that?

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Subsection?

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The subsection?

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Uh, you can say what you like, you've got the mic.

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That's true. Yeah. I can, although Dan's got the power because he can turn me

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off at any point. Um, and so yeah, so anyway, we've got this little subsection

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going on where we're going to start to look at, um, the community that Jesus

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sort of calls and brings together. And so tonight we're looking at the calling

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of the disciples.

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We are.

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And what Jesus did there, what we can learn from it in today's world and for

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ourselves, for our own lives. We're going to get into all of that. So that's

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kind of where we are as we go through. If you have any questions, thoughts,

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write them in the comments, because after the talk, we all 3 of us, we kind of

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talk about the talk. We call it conversation stream, and we go through any

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questions that you've put in the comments that we can answer on the, on the live

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stream. We will do that. So yeah, we will quite happily do. Let me just go, in

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fact, to the comments. We've got Lady Burkeby. Hi, Lady Burkeby. Hi, Ade. Hi,

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Ellis. Alice says, sorry, I'm late. It's 2 minutes past.

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He's not missed anything important yet, has he?

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I mean, let's be honest.

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You'll be forgiven. Basically just technical problems.

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It's not a problem. We've on the mobile, we've got Alicia. We've got Julie, Mrs.

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Connolly. So no pressure, but the wife's, the wife's watching.

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It'll be good.

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You've got to be on your best behaviour, Dave.

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So good evening, everybody that is in the comments. Sharon's in the comments as

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well, and obviously Crowd Church is in the comments. Roz is in the comments.

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Roz, good evening. Uh, it's great that you're all joining us from around the

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world, no doubt, uh, on this beautifully hot day here in the UK. But without

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further ado, um, we will hand over to Dave, who is, uh— I sent Dave a card on

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Father's Day. I've mentioned this before, haven't I, on the show? I always give

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you a card on Father's Day.

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You do.

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Dave's like my spiritual dad, and so I'm all— I'm very grateful for this man

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who's an absolute legend. And gives a lot to crowd, don't you? And you're so

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into it. And, um, so always love to hear what Dave has to say. So let's, without

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further ado, hand over to Dave, and then Anna and I will be back with Dave for

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Conversation Street after this.

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Cue Dave. Good evening, folks, and it's great to be here. I am on Father's Day,

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and just one thought on Father's Day. I was preaching on, um, Fatherhood: God's

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Design, um, this morning at a wonderful church called Open Well. And in

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preparing for that, I, I got this real revelation, and that was, you know, until

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we really grasp the fatherhood of God, there'll always be a part of us where we

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live like orphans.

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Oh, love that.

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You know, and it was— and, and it is such a pain. I mean, you know, for me, I

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didn't have, you know, opposed to dad in my life. Um, probably did his best from

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his brokenness. Well, because of the ongoing going with the Holy Spirit in my

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life, I was able to help lead them to Jesus. I don't think you can do that

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unless you get a hold of a good design of fatherhood. And it is real, the pain

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and things, but that's not this evening's talk.

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That's all for free, is it?

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Yeah, that's just a throwaway. Yeah, that's just a sidebar. Yeah, yeah. Yeah,

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buy myself some time. Yeah, I'm wanting to change the talk slightly. Same topic,

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but just our approach to it, you know. Um, we're talking about how Jesus starts

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to gather these guys, gather his community, and, um, but you know, this is a

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call that changes everything. Yeah, it changes everything for these guys. And,

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um, we're going to be— if you've got your Bibles, um We're going to be looking

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in the Gospel of Mark, and, um, we're going to look at chapter 1, verse 16 to

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20, and we'll reference chapter 3, verse 13 to 19. And, um, I love the different

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writers and what they bring.

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Yeah.

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Mark, there's always— when you read Mark's Gospel, there's a real urgency, and,

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um, that you don't pick up in the same way in the other gospels. So here in this

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story, and we're not talking about science fiction, but you know, we took the

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story, um, of this. Jesus is walking along the shoreline, okay, um, and it's the

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Sea of Galilee where he's walking, and he saw some ordinary fishermen going

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about their daily work, ordinary people doing a daily job. And we got Simon

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Peter, Andrew, James, and John, and they're mending their nets, they're doing

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fisherman stuff, and they're just probably expecting another hard day's toil.

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And Jesus spoke two life-changing words to them. He says, "Follow me." And

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that's Mark 1:17. The two words that jump out here— follow me— everything

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changes on what they do or do not do. And, um, you know, you— we just need to

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appreciate that at this time, um, the Jews were expecting a messiah. They

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probably weren't expecting him to come as in the form of Jesus, okay? Yeah, you

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know, according to— they're probably expecting some warrior or um, rebel type of

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thing. Mark's Gospel has got its own style in how he tries to communicate, um,

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to us the story of what is going on. And one word, um, that appears, um, a

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number of times, um, in this gospel is immediately or at once. Um, and it's like

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the writer is like, we God knows where your heart is, so you can respond to

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this, you know. And sometimes we forget that, you know, God goes before us.

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Yeah.

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And he is speaking to us, he is preparing the way for us. And, um, those two—

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it's mainly in two places directly, and it's in verse 18 and verse 20. And it

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says, um, that those Men who become the 12, who become part of the disciples, it

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says they responded to Jesus immediately. And you know, there's sometimes in our

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lives when we hear something and we perceive it that this is true, this is of

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God, and we then start thinking, well, maybe I just need to think that through,

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otherwise I'm being reckless, And you know, I probably would err towards

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probably the reckless side, if you know me.

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Mm-hmm.

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But for me, when I know the truth, I don't really have to pray about it a whole

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lot. I'll pray, "God, strengthen me, give me the grace to do it." But you know,

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I want to encourage us to learn to know the voice of God, the prompting of God,

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the moving of the Holy Spirit, and act on it. And it says this, "They left their

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nets, their boats," Excuse me. And even the security of their family business to

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follow him. It meant them leaving something of cost behind. And, um, sometimes,

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you know, when I hear the gospel being preached, that is missing. And that

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concerns me greatly when I don't hear people talking about the cost of following

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Christ, because we can say that Jesus paid it all. He did. But in following,

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there's a daily sacrifice of walking after him and walking with him. You know,

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so it's not supposed to be dead easy. There is a cost involved, and I think

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that's wonderful. The response that you see from these men, it's not impulsive.

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It was a recognition that they recognized the authority of Christ Jesus. Amen.

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They recognized the authority of the Messiah. In the ancient world, you know,

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students would normally choose their rabbi, and like there's 3 stages mainly of

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education, but students would mainly choose their own rabbi. Here, something

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revolutionary happens.

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Hey!

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I had to get it in. Jesus rabbi, the rabbi chooses his students, and that's not

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just to be different. As you see the story between Jesus and the disciples, it

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is significantly different, so you need a significantly different call. What

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encourages us about this passage is that Jesus chooses ordinary people. He

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didn't begin with religious experts, political leaders, and celebrities. He

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chose ordinary people, and, you know, I think if I was at a message, I want to

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get into the world, and I had to pick a handful of men, I'm not sure I would

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have picked any of these, you know, because they were just ordinary, and they

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weren't great men of significance in one sense, But isn't that great for us, you

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know, that God still uses ordinary people? We have a God who takes ordinary

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people and uses them to do supernatural things, amazing things, extraordinary

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things. God always, it seems, to delight in using ordinary people because, you

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know, then the focus isn't on what these people can do. The focus is on what God

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has done. Paul reminds us in 1 Corinthians 12— I'm sorry, 1 Corinthians 1:27—

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how God chose the foolish things, you know, to shame the wise. God chose the

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weak things of the world to shame the strong. It's just to keep the emphasis on

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God and not on man. Maybe, um, you might this evening, if you don't know the

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Lord Jesus, or maybe you're walking with God, but you feel unqualified. You

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might even feel overlooked or insignificant. The calling of the disciples

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clearly, clearly, clearly reminds us that Jesus sees far more than we see about

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ourselves. When we often in church will say, "God has got a plan," He has, and

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that plan starts and finishes with relationship, relationship with him. He sees

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our potential. I'm not a big lover of the word potential because we just seem to

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say the word and get stuck there rather than moving into it. God sees the call

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that he has placed on our lives. He sees how he can work in us and through us he

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sees his purposes being fulfilled through us. We are invited into, um,

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partnership. And these fishermen would have known about partnership because they

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would have been part of a larger community of partnership fishermen. Yeah. Um,

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Jesus didn't invite these guys just to accompany him. You know, as, um,

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somewhere in on the outer echelons. He invites them right into his life and he

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says, come, follow me. That meant walking with him, walking closely with him.

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And I don't really think, you know, in the 21st century we understand walking

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anymore. Um, I think I may have said before on Crowd Church, I am— when we were

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at Frontline many years ago, there's a picture. I used to see a guy Every week

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at a certain time, and we used to walk around the Mystery, which is a large park

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in Liverpool. And in this picture, it's snowing, and we didn't know this picture

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was being taken of us, but the snow's coming down and you can see this guy's

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talking, and I'm walking side on, and I'm just looking at his face, looking at

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his lips, you know, um, when people talk, we need to look at them so we've got

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their attention. And I was really interested in what he was saying. It wasn't

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just about me fixing him, and you get that with walking. You don't get that when

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you're just jumping in the car for a few minutes. I think it's just a completely

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different thing. Um, I want to— I'd encourage us to find a way of rediscovering

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walking with people and talking and sharing and listening 'Cause that's what

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Jesus invited those early disciples into. They were some of the key things. He

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says, "Come follow me and I will make you." Wasn't just come follow me and we'll

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have this great holy uddle. You know what, we can have a small group. It's gonna

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be great, Andrew. It's gonna be absolutely fantastic. Gonna get together every

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week, we'll do all these great things. We'll read our Bible, we'll eat, we might

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break bread together, and we'll sing some songs maybe. Um, but it wasn't just

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that. And he said, but I will make you— is the purpose— fishers of men. So he's

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talking to fishermen. So his illustration is about fish, which makes sense,

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doesn't it? It's not worth him talking about building or farming. He talks, you

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know, it's relevant. The illustration is relevant for them. And he's not just

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saying we'll go fishing, he's saying I will make you I will make you fishers of

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men. And I think, um, we need to understand that, that this gospel that we

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receive, and as we receive it, the understanding and part of the cost is that we

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will also share it. Excuse me. So whilst these disciples may be ordinary people,

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he has a plan for them. I will make you fishers of men. I will make you. It's

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not about your efforts, it's not about how how busy you can make yourself, he

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says, I will make you. What he's saying, I will empower you, and as I empower

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you, you— A disciple is all about modeling what you see in your rabbi as you

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walk with him. Transformation is in Christ's hand. He brings about

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transformation in us. The disciples didn't need to do it in their own strength.

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Their own power or in their own desire. They just needed to surrender their

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lives to Christ, to walk with him, to watch, to listen, to do what he did. And

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the same is true for us as we become followers of Christ. You know, um, we just

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need to walk. It's not about effort. You know, when we just try and make

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ourselves busy doing God things, I think if you've done it for any period of

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time, we just get tired. And we may think we have all the right motives, but I

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want to say to you, walk with him, and as you walk with Christ, you'll want to

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share the things of Christ with others in your life. You know, Jesus didn't do a

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quick, "Let's just do a quick interview on these guys, and let's see if you're

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bright enough, clever enough," Do you speak well enough? Are you going to upset

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everybody? Or are you going to woo them? Are you going to kill them? He doesn't.

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He calls them, because it's all about Jesus. He sees a hunger in them, and he

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calls them to himself. And they follow. They leave behind, and they follow him.

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And for some folks, We believe, but we don't leave behind. We have too much of

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our past in our presence that is not surrendered to God. Does that make sense?

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Mm-hmm. We have too much of our past in our presence. And, you know, um,

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obviously we can't just leave everything behind in one sense, you know, we have

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responsibilities, you know, but it can be surrendered to Christ. And we can

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bring Christ right into the center of it. Um, so, you know, um, it's not merely

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about believing in Jesus, it's about following, it's about living a life that

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demonstrates him. That's the whole thing about being part of a community. They

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contribute, they share, they have something, um, to contribute to a relationship

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is made up of, um, different parts, isn't it? Different people playing their

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role. And how amazing it is that we've got Peter, you know. I just think having

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Peter in any group is going to keep you on your toes. It's going to teach you

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grace. Oh, you know, and, and I thank God that Peter is in that group. It

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brings— gives me grace, hope, you know, for myself. Um, But he takes them as

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they are, and he tells them who they are in him. He says to them, "Come, follow

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me, be like me." And Jesus, as a rabbi, inputs them. He shares all that he has.

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They see all these different areas of Jesus's life, and they are part of it. And

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I love it. I think I've said it before. They see him when he's tired. What is

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Jesus' response to tiredness? Sleep. Yeah.

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Come and si.

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Do you see him when he's stressed? What is his thing? Come aside and pray. All

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these different responses they will have seen with Jesus, because Jesus models

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it to them, and Jesus' expectation is for them to do the same, to copy him. I

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just want to say something about these guys. You know, we People often say about

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Christians, 'Well, you were just a loser.' I don't have any problem identifying

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with that. Going nowhere, going there fast, you know. But Jesus came for the

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lost. Lost. If you can't identify that you were lost, even if you had everything

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or if you had nothing, well then it's very hard to encounter Christ. But you

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know, let me just tell you something about these guys. James and John, we're

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told, left behind a successful fishing business. They were successful in what

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they did. Their father had hired servants. They're part of a fishing, like,

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cooperative. They had real security. They had something to leave behind that was

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going to cost them. And there was no plan. There was no return plan, by the way.

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There was no return plan.

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No.

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You know what they did, and it's true for any of us today, is that they

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surrendered themselves. They put their trust in following Jesus. And that is

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true of us, whether we have much or whether we have little. The question for us

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today is, what are the nets? You know, it says that they put down the nets.

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Maybe the question for us today is, what are the nets that Jesus is asking you

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and I to leave behind? You know, when we hear the gospel message, lots of

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people, they say, "Oh, well, I would do if I was good enough," or whatever, you

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know, and they try and make themselves better, or they think about all the

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different situations, a marriage, a family, I know, a sickness, a disease, a

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whole host of things. I'll just work on those, and when I get them sorted, then

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I will follow. Well, you know, it's— we have— you had to hear the call to

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follow, and the appropriate response is that they responded immediately. So what

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are— maybe what are the nets that we have in our life? Maybe For some of us,

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perhaps it's fear.

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Yeah.

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Perhaps it's pride. Perhaps it's comfort. Perhaps it's self-reliance. Okay, and

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those four things, we all encounter them in real life. Perhaps it's a

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distraction that has slowly taken place in our lives that hinder us from

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following God. Maybe you have encountered God in some measure, But you know,

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when we have unsurrendered areas in our lives, I'm telling you, it only goes one

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way, and that's not towards God. You know, I am— for the first 2 years I became

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a Christian, I have to say I experienced the goodness of God in my life. But

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there was one area in my life, um, that I hadn't surrendered to God. I wasn't

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struggling with it, but I knew it was there, and, and I knew I hadn't

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surrendered it. And after about 18 months or nearly 2 years, one day this thing

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just popped its head up and I knew it wasn't surrendered. And I turned my back

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on Christ, and for about 18 months I went off and I was in a worse place than

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what I was before. The reality is we need to not be perfect. Hear me, it's not

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about being perfect, it's about being surrendered. And maybe that's another

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talk. Mm. You know, um, don't allow distractions in your life to say, well, you

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can't follow Christ because of this, you've got this, you've got that. They

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heard the call and they put down their nets. Jesus continues to call people to

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radical discipleship. We're talking about this being Jesus the revolutionary.

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There's nothing ordinary about being a revolutionary. There's nothing ordinary

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about being a Christian. You know, to follow Christ, there is something about

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standing up You see it repeatedly in the New Testament, both standing up and

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speaking out. And yes, by all means, I totally agree with folks who say we make

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our lives count, we're salt and light. Absolutely, totally agree. But you can't

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leave out that we have to literally share verbally with people the love of God.

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How can we not tell people about if we fall in love, we tell everybody. I

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remember when I met Julie, um, Julie was really young when I met her, and, um, I

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remember, like, you know, I couldn't shut up. You know, you know when you fall

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in love, you just bore the pants off everybody else, don't you? Well, when you

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have children, everybody's seen your baby, or 450,000 photographs. They're happy

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with the first 5.

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Or the first one.

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Or the first one. More tolerant than that, but, uh, you know what I mean? Um,

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Well, because we're passionate about it, aren't we? You know, and you can't hold

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yourself back by saying, 'I've got a new boyfriend or husband,' um, or whatever.

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And, and that's how we need to be about Christ, because he's impacted our lives

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so wonderfully.

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Yes.

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You know, and Jesus continuing to radically call men and women to discipleship.

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And I don't mean people who are pastors, whatever that means, or missionaries,

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or church leaders, or this or that. I'm talking about ordinary men and women who

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Jesus loves, and he calls them into a living relationship so that they can be

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who God has called them, whether that's in the university or in the factory or

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wherever. Let me try and land this by saying all of us need to know what it is

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to respond when God speaks to us. Yeah. And if you're not yet a Christian, I

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want— I really want to say to you this evening, there's an invitation. Jesus

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gave an invitation, okay, to those early disciples, and that same invitation is

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true for you and I, and it is real today. And in the same ways that Jesus came

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and walked with those disciples. He longs to walk with you.

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Yeah.

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He longs to draw near to you. It's not known about some distant, far-off God.

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The question is not whether Jesus is calling. The question is whether you're

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willing to respond. The church is built— is built on an unlikely foundation of

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ordinary people. It's about people. It's not about buildings. You know, wherever

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we are this evening, whatever you do, whatever your story may be, Jesus sees

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you.

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Mm.

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And he loves you exactly where you are, going through exactly what you're going

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through. And he says, come, follow me.

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Mm. Wonderful. Thank you, chief.

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Pleasure.

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I was— the reason I was smiling when you were saying that is someone wrote in

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the comments, I'm gonna get straight into it because I was looking at the

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comments earlier. Someone wrote in the comments, uh, God hates me, too much bad

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luck and too much stress. And so, and obviously you'd not seen these comments.

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No.

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Um, while she was speaking, uh, too busy looking at your own notes, I feel. Um,

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but yeah, it's interesting how, how you sort of finished on that. Um, God hates

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me lately, too much bad luck and too much stress. What would you say to that?

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First of all, God doesn't hate you, okay? God doesn't hate you. He sent his one

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and only Son to die for you, and that wasn't on condition. He came to seek and

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save the lost, not for those who he already had or those who already believe.

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You know, I want to tell you, when you— if you're thinking God hates you that

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has not come from God. You need to know that God loves you. He loves you so

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much. The scripture said that he sent his only son, yeah, to die in your place,

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in my place, to carry my sin, my brokenness. He loves you. Don't fall for that

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lie. That is a lie to keep you separated from God.

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So true, isn't it? And again, it comes back to the whole conversation you were

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talking about in terms of calling. Like, God chose this sort of ragtag bunch of

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people. So it's not based on performance.

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No.

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It's not based on skill level. It's definitely not based on education level. Um,

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but there's still that calling, isn't there? And there's another comment

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actually that's come in a couple of times I want to just pick up. This idea that

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Jesus was a Greco-Roman myth. Um, and it's an interesting one, isn't it? Because

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yes, he was in— he's from ancient times, but I'd say it came more out of Jewish

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theology Graeco-Roman mythology. But I can see, um, to totally answer the

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question, uh, there was, after the resurrection of Christ, a crossover. So you

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could say that some of the Christian art started to use some of the pagan

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iconography. But the fascinating thing, the reason why I wanted to bring that up

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right at the start, again going back to your point, Dave, was if Jesus was a

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myth, which I've I fully don't think that he was. There's way too much evidence.

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But if Jesus was a myth, there's no way these guys would have followed him to

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their death, right? If it was all based on a lie, if it was all based on a myth,

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there's no way that Peter would have gone through and endured, or Paul would

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have gone through and endured what they went through. You, you wouldn't do that

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for a lie. And the fact that they endured that to me is actually quite a telling

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part of this story. And it all kind of kickstarts right here in these fishing

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boats. And, uh, and I love this imagery. I'll make you fishers of men.

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But I'm sure as you guys have, you know, been, you know, growing up— I know, and

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you've grown up in and around church, you know, we, we hear people saying, well,

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Jesus is just a myth, he's just this Well, I have spent many hours, because, you

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know, I have to teach on some of these things. You know, the evidence for Jesus

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is overwhelming. Even people who don't believe in him would say, you know,

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there's more documentation that Jesus existed than Napoleon Bonaparte's.

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Yeah.

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It's, you know, it's huge. But it's easy to get caught up on that, because I

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would have to say, if he's a myth, who is this that has totally transformed my

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life? Yeah, yeah. Who is this that is now living in my life?

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Yeah, you know. No, it's a fair question. It is a fair question. So let's get

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into it. Calling thoughts and comments, Miss Anna.

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Yeah, I just thought there was like so much in that, um, in that talk tonight,

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Dave. Thank you for it. I, I I loved, I love what you had to say about that kind

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of sense of urgency, like drop your nets, come and follow me. And it's not like

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a, in a couple of weeks when you've sorted a few things out, you've talked to

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the wife, you've got all your assets in place, you've kind of, you know, worked

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out all the logistics. It's like immediate. It's like just drop everything and

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come follow me. And, and they do it. That's the incredible thing. Like I think,

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wow, if Jesus was standing in front of some of us, would we just drop everything

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and come? Yeah. No, it's challenging, isn't it?

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It is.

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Just like that, drop everything you're doing. You know, they were fishermen.

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They weren't religious leaders, people of their time, were they? They had a

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profession. They had, you know, families to feed, you know, money to make on the

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fishing boats. And, you know, how— Yeah, how quick would we be to drop

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everything? I sometimes think, oh gosh.

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It's a really good point, isn't it?

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Yeah.

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Because I— and I love the imagery of the net, right? So they let go of their

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nets. Their nets are symbolic, isn't it? That's their living, that's their

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livelihood. It's what they know. It's what they've done day in, day out. It's a

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security. It's like, this is how they do life. And so actually the call of

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Christ is to not necessarily abandon like you don't have to quit your job or any

419
00:33:35,948 --> 00:33:40,492
of that, but to actually go, no, I'm, I'm gonna follow you. I'm— everything that

420
00:33:40,492 --> 00:33:45,036
I know and think may still be true tomorrow, but I'm going to subject everything

421
00:33:45,036 --> 00:33:49,579
I know and think to your lead. Yeah.

422
00:33:49,579 --> 00:33:54,472
Right? Yeah. So, and can I ask you a question? Yeah, I know you grew up in

423
00:33:54,472 --> 00:33:59,365
church. Like, for everybody, there's a moment, isn't there, when that wherever

424
00:33:59,365 --> 00:34:04,257
you are, you hear something that changes your thinking to bring you to a place

425
00:34:04,257 --> 00:34:09,150
of surrender or committal to Christ.

426
00:34:09,150 --> 00:34:09,289
What was that?

427
00:34:09,949 --> 00:34:13,090
What did— because they hear the call.

428
00:34:13,090 --> 00:34:13,369
Yeah.

429
00:34:13,369 --> 00:34:15,960
What I'm asking is, what was that call like for you?

430
00:34:16,210 --> 00:34:20,613
I suppose for me it was different to that, that moment that the disciples had

431
00:34:20,613 --> 00:34:25,016
because I'd grown up in church culture and going to church with my parents. Um,

432
00:34:25,016 --> 00:34:29,420
so I think for me it was coming of age really because being like a late teenager

433
00:34:29,420 --> 00:34:33,823
and sort of thinking for the first time, do I just go to church because my

434
00:34:33,823 --> 00:34:38,226
parents take me? Yeah. And told me I have to go every week, or do I go because I

435
00:34:38,226 --> 00:34:42,630
want to do it? And am I going to continue to go when I, you know, so when I was

436
00:34:42,630 --> 00:34:47,033
18 and I left home to go to university and came up to Liverpool first time,

437
00:34:47,033 --> 00:34:51,436
suddenly it's like, no one's gonna make me go to church. What do I really think

438
00:34:51,436 --> 00:34:55,840
here? Do I really believe in God? And if so, why? And have I encountered him

439
00:34:55,840 --> 00:35:00,243
personally? And honestly, at that point, I don't know if I had, but certainly in

440
00:35:00,243 --> 00:35:04,646
that first year of going to university, and, you know, I didn't do a physical

441
00:35:04,646 --> 00:35:09,049
Alpha course, but I did read the book because I wanted to answer some of those

442
00:35:09,049 --> 00:35:13,453
questions, like, how can you be sure the, you know, Bible's true? Is Jesus

443
00:35:13,453 --> 00:35:17,856
really real? How can you know? Did the cross really— like, I wanted some of

444
00:35:17,856 --> 00:35:22,259
those answers. And I'd definitely encourage, just going off-piste here, but

445
00:35:22,259 --> 00:35:26,663
anybody who's got questions like that one about, is Jesus really real? And how

446
00:35:26,663 --> 00:35:31,066
can we know? Do the Alpha course. It's a few weeks of your life, and you've

447
00:35:31,066 --> 00:35:35,469
nothing to lose if Jesus isn't real.

448
00:35:35,469 --> 00:35:35,889
Absolutely, yeah.

449
00:35:35,909 --> 00:35:40,668
But actually, it goes through a lot of that evidence in that case for Jesus. And

450
00:35:40,668 --> 00:35:45,427
for me, that was quite life-changing. But I also think, so some of it was that

451
00:35:45,427 --> 00:35:50,186
and getting my own understanding right. But actually, a lot of it was a heart

452
00:35:50,186 --> 00:35:54,944
change as well. And being like, actually, when I put this into practice, Jesus

453
00:35:54,944 --> 00:35:59,703
meeting me there in some, like, really practical, real ways. It's like, oh, and

454
00:35:59,703 --> 00:36:04,462
so I think for me it was a bit more of a process, but it was like choosing to

455
00:36:04,462 --> 00:36:09,221
go, okay, God, I— and I do remember thinking when I, when I first went to uni,

456
00:36:09,221 --> 00:36:13,980
okay, I don't know if this is real, but I'm gonna go all out with it and see.

457
00:36:13,980 --> 00:36:14,360
Yeah.

458
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:18,692
And if it works, it works, and if not, never mind, I'll, you know, sack it off.

459
00:36:18,692 --> 00:36:23,023
But I'm gonna, like, fully check it out before I've been at it. Yeah. And of

460
00:36:23,023 --> 00:36:27,356
course I never binned it because the more I looked into it, the more I was like

461
00:36:27,356 --> 00:36:31,688
convinced. And also the more I knew of God and tasted of God, the more— yeah, I

462
00:36:31,688 --> 00:36:36,019
couldn't look back. Yeah. And I never have.

463
00:36:36,289 --> 00:36:37,170
Yeah. So yeah, it's great.

464
00:36:37,710 --> 00:36:41,862
This is a really good point. It's a really good point, isn't it? And it's that,

465
00:36:41,862 --> 00:36:46,014
that sense of, um, that sense of call, isn't it? Like what you said about

466
00:36:46,014 --> 00:36:50,165
purpose, the purpose, you know, I'm calling you, you're going to be fishers of

467
00:36:50,165 --> 00:36:54,317
men. So it's like I'm calling you to something. This is not a kind of, you know,

468
00:36:54,317 --> 00:36:58,469
a sort of a— we don't know what's—

469
00:36:58,679 --> 00:36:59,440
It's not self-indulgence.

470
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:04,155
Yeah, it's not. So that's a good point. It is really not self-indulgence. This

471
00:37:04,155 --> 00:37:08,871
is not about you all of a sudden. No, this is about impact. This is about, um,

472
00:37:08,871 --> 00:37:13,586
and actually being fishers of men. I— the language I would use is this is all

473
00:37:13,586 --> 00:37:18,302
about growing God's kingdom. This is all about the kingdom of heaven versus the

474
00:37:18,302 --> 00:37:23,017
kingdom of Matt. Yeah, right. Um, and so I, I think your purpose then becomes

475
00:37:23,017 --> 00:37:27,733
bigger than you are, and then this is what you end up giving your life to. Yeah,

476
00:37:27,733 --> 00:37:32,448
right. Um, did you— going back to your example, Anna, did you sense that purpose

477
00:37:32,448 --> 00:37:37,164
in those early days when you were doing the Alpha course and stuff? How did that

478
00:37:37,164 --> 00:37:41,880
come about?

479
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:46,593
Yeah, I think I did. Um, I think I sensed God's call. Um, I think even coming to

480
00:37:46,593 --> 00:37:51,306
Liverpool, it was quite— it's quite a long story, but just the way everything

481
00:37:51,306 --> 00:37:56,019
fell into place.

482
00:37:56,019 --> 00:37:56,360
Yeah.

483
00:37:56,360 --> 00:38:01,319
And it wasn't really another option of university courses I could do, and it was

484
00:38:01,319 --> 00:38:06,278
just very clearly God. In the months that kind of preceded me going to

485
00:38:06,278 --> 00:38:11,237
university, like, all the— yeah, all the routes just led to one place very

486
00:38:11,237 --> 00:38:16,196
clearly. And so I did really feel God's hand in sort of, and his direction and

487
00:38:16,196 --> 00:38:21,155
his kind of leading to that, to that place. Um, I don't know if that answers the

488
00:38:21,155 --> 00:38:26,114
question, but I— yeah, I think it, it is a process. But it— yeah, there was

489
00:38:26,114 --> 00:38:31,074
definitely, there was a sense of call and God calling me to a certain place. And

490
00:38:31,074 --> 00:38:36,033
then I think once I was starting to experience God for myself and spend time in

491
00:38:36,033 --> 00:38:40,992
church and read my Bible more, and it became more personal and real to me. The

492
00:38:40,992 --> 00:38:45,951
overflowing is interesting that he talks about. I'll make you fishers of men,

493
00:38:45,951 --> 00:38:50,910
because responding to that call, it changed the way I saw the people around me.

494
00:38:50,910 --> 00:38:55,869
Like, I would look at the friends in my—

495
00:38:55,869 --> 00:38:56,289
Yeah.

496
00:38:56,289 --> 00:39:00,761
And just, yeah, other friends who were like students at the time, and they're

497
00:39:00,761 --> 00:39:05,233
very broken and very— yeah, just, I don't know. And my heart really broke for

498
00:39:05,233 --> 00:39:09,705
some of them because I, I was like Yeah, and it was like— and I— there was a

499
00:39:09,705 --> 00:39:14,177
sense of urgency, like, suddenly about this thing that God is doing in your

500
00:39:14,177 --> 00:39:18,649
life. You, you need to share this with other people. They need it too. They're

501
00:39:18,649 --> 00:39:23,121
broken. And, yeah, you know, I— yeah, it, it was, it was, um, yeah, it was very

502
00:39:23,121 --> 00:39:27,593
real at that time, I think. And it's been real other times as well. But I think

503
00:39:27,593 --> 00:39:32,065
there was that real sense of that calling. But there was also, you know, there

504
00:39:32,065 --> 00:39:36,536
is also a cost, isn't there? It's like you've— there's— and I love that you said

505
00:39:36,536 --> 00:39:41,008
that as well, Dave, because there is a cost. And I think often in Christianity

506
00:39:41,008 --> 00:39:45,480
we can, you know, we can be, we can be guilty in church, can't we, of absolutely

507
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,952
preaching a weak gospel that's like, come to Jesus and he'll make you happier

508
00:39:49,952 --> 00:39:54,424
and yeah, give— prosper you. And there's a lot of prosperity gospel that's been

509
00:39:54,424 --> 00:39:58,896
out there. Absolutely. And, um, it's not the full story, and there's cost as

510
00:39:58,896 --> 00:40:03,368
well. And so I really love that you said that because it's a cost, but I've

511
00:40:03,368 --> 00:40:07,840
never found that it's not worth it.

512
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:08,260
That's right.

513
00:40:08,420 --> 00:40:09,269
And that's the thing.

514
00:40:09,579 --> 00:40:14,284
Well, and it's like, we're happy to pay a cost for something we feel is valuable

515
00:40:14,284 --> 00:40:18,988
or of value, you know. And, um, you know, what— what reason why I was asking you

516
00:40:18,988 --> 00:40:23,693
that, Anne, was that, you know, I was just thinking about, you know, when he's

517
00:40:23,693 --> 00:40:28,397
saying about, I'll make you fishes of men, um, you know, he's actually speaking

518
00:40:28,397 --> 00:40:33,102
to them in a language that they understood. And what he's doing, he's saying, so

519
00:40:33,102 --> 00:40:37,806
I am going to repurpose all the skills you have, all the things you have. I am

520
00:40:37,806 --> 00:40:42,511
going to use them, and I'm going to use them in— and I'm going to use a language

521
00:40:42,511 --> 00:40:47,215
so you understand. So we're not going to be— we're not going to go fishing for

522
00:40:47,215 --> 00:40:51,920
fish anymore.

523
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:52,400
Yeah.

524
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:57,300
But we are going to go and fish. We are going to go and gather souls, lost

525
00:40:57,300 --> 00:41:02,199
souls, and you know, and you understand something about the toil that— I love

526
00:41:02,199 --> 00:41:07,099
this fisherman, the toil that's involved. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, it's not

527
00:41:07,099 --> 00:41:12,000
going up like with your rod. These nets are throwing, there's patience. They

528
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,900
know, they, you know, they know the skills of fishing that are required. But

529
00:41:16,900 --> 00:41:21,799
although that the language he's talking to them, he's trying to reach them not

530
00:41:21,799 --> 00:41:26,699
because they are simple, but to speak a language that they understand.

531
00:41:26,699 --> 00:41:27,019
Yeah.

532
00:41:27,019 --> 00:41:31,659
So He takes their skills and their time, and he completely repurposes them. And

533
00:41:31,659 --> 00:41:36,299
I think for us, you know, that just says, you know, wherever I am, with whoever

534
00:41:36,299 --> 00:41:40,940
I'm with, you know, whatever skills and talents I have, God will use that to

535
00:41:40,940 --> 00:41:45,579
draw people to him, if I am surrendered, if I have answered that call, as Anita

536
00:41:45,579 --> 00:41:50,219
was saying.

537
00:41:50,260 --> 00:41:54,768
That's a really important point, isn't it? It's like, Um, like when COVID hit,

538
00:41:54,768 --> 00:41:59,276
it was in my wheelhouse to go, well, let's just livestream the service. And this

539
00:41:59,276 --> 00:42:03,784
is, you know, the start of Crowd Church in many ways, wasn't it? It was just

540
00:42:03,784 --> 00:42:08,293
like it just all began. It's like God takes your talents and understandings and

541
00:42:08,293 --> 00:42:12,801
he uses them for his purposes and for his kingdom. And that's in effect what the

542
00:42:12,801 --> 00:42:17,309
calling is. You don't have to go out and learn a whole new skill set.

543
00:42:17,710 --> 00:42:18,059
Absolutely right.

544
00:42:18,449 --> 00:42:22,269
It's not like you've got to go to a specific school to learn a specific thing.

545
00:42:22,269 --> 00:42:26,090
Maybe, I don't know, unless God leads you that way. But I think on the whole,

546
00:42:26,090 --> 00:42:29,909
um, I'm reminded of the parable of the talents where the, you know, the sort of

547
00:42:29,909 --> 00:42:33,730
the guys have 5 and 10 and 1, and it's like that it's all what you do with what

548
00:42:33,730 --> 00:42:37,550
you've been given, isn't it?

549
00:42:37,550 --> 00:42:42,150
And how you do it. I love that bit that Dave talked about, um, I will make you.

550
00:42:42,150 --> 00:42:42,429
Yeah.

551
00:42:42,429 --> 00:42:43,650
So I will make you fishers of men.

552
00:42:43,650 --> 00:42:43,929
Yeah.

553
00:42:43,929 --> 00:42:47,742
And it's the God will do the work. God will make you. It's not, yeah, it's not a

554
00:42:47,742 --> 00:42:51,555
striving, it's a surrender. And I, I love that, and I thought it was such an

555
00:42:51,555 --> 00:42:55,368
important point because we can think, oh, I'm, you know, I so often hear people

556
00:42:55,368 --> 00:42:59,181
say, and we hear it a lot in Crowd Church, don't we, like, oh, I don't know if

557
00:42:59,181 --> 00:43:02,994
I'm ready to become a Christian yet, I'm not good enough, or I don't know if I

558
00:43:02,994 --> 00:43:06,807
can do it. And it's like, it's not you doing it. Yeah, it's God doing it in you.

559
00:43:06,807 --> 00:43:10,619
And that's the thing, like, we're never ready, aren't we?

560
00:43:10,619 --> 00:43:10,719
Absolutely.

561
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,789
You know, we've all being Christians around the table for a long, long time.

562
00:43:13,789 --> 00:43:14,530
Yeah.

563
00:43:14,530 --> 00:43:17,809
And we're still not good enough, and we're still not ready in many ways, but God

564
00:43:17,809 --> 00:43:21,090
takes us anyway, and he, he makes us, and he transforms us, and he does it. And

565
00:43:21,090 --> 00:43:24,369
it's so—

566
00:43:24,369 --> 00:43:24,670
it's not—

567
00:43:24,670 --> 00:43:29,510
it's that surrender posture, not striving and effort and self-effort.

568
00:43:29,510 --> 00:43:29,900
And it's important.

569
00:43:30,570 --> 00:43:31,050
Yeah.

570
00:43:31,050 --> 00:43:34,753
You find that the longer you're walking in your Christian faith, the more

571
00:43:34,753 --> 00:43:38,456
reliant on God's grace you become. It's an interesting question because I think

572
00:43:38,456 --> 00:43:42,159
you go one of two ways, don't you? Maybe every day it's different. Yeah. Um, one

573
00:43:42,159 --> 00:43:45,863
day you're kind of like, yeah, I really know, I'm, you know, it's God's grace,

574
00:43:45,863 --> 00:43:49,566
God's making me, God's doing it in me. But the next day it's like, right, let's

575
00:43:49,566 --> 00:43:53,269
go! I mean, it's all about sort of self—

576
00:43:53,269 --> 00:43:55,349
yeah, I know what the right answer is.

577
00:43:57,389 --> 00:44:03,949
Challenge accepted.

578
00:44:03,949 --> 00:44:04,409
Give us both.

579
00:44:04,519 --> 00:44:09,190
I feel like, um, I feel like I am a natural lead. Like, I'm quite a doer. My

580
00:44:09,190 --> 00:44:13,860
natural lean is into self-effort and striving, and like, I can make stuff

581
00:44:13,860 --> 00:44:18,530
happen. I'm capable, I've got competencies, I lean into them. Yeah, I'll make

582
00:44:18,530 --> 00:44:23,199
this happen. Yeah. Um, but I think when I don't lean on God, I'm— I think what's

583
00:44:23,199 --> 00:44:27,869
happened over time is I've become much quicker at recognizing when I'm not.

584
00:44:27,869 --> 00:44:32,539
Yeah, when I'm not depending on God. Like, I used to let it not realized for a

585
00:44:32,539 --> 00:44:37,210
long time. And now I think the length of time, yeah, is shorter, and I think

586
00:44:37,210 --> 00:44:41,880
that's great. Yeah, yeah.

587
00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:46,812
And God knows, yeah, doesn't he? You know, I mean, you're a very resourceful

588
00:44:46,812 --> 00:44:51,745
lady, and I think it's as we learn to be in— I love that word, love the word

589
00:44:51,745 --> 00:44:56,678
posture— in a place where we are daily, um, just position ourselves where our

590
00:44:56,678 --> 00:45:01,611
gifts and our talents are surrendered for him to use in whatever way he wants

591
00:45:01,611 --> 00:45:06,544
to. And, um, and I think it's learning. I said, we've been Christians a while,

592
00:45:06,544 --> 00:45:11,477
and I think we would all say, you know what it is to be busy, you know, and to

593
00:45:11,477 --> 00:45:16,409
try harder. All you get is tired.

594
00:45:16,710 --> 00:45:17,030
Yeah.

595
00:45:17,030 --> 00:45:21,590
You know, that doesn't mean that you don't engage, please hear me, you know,

596
00:45:21,590 --> 00:45:26,150
because God wants to use us in the right sense. He doesn't want to misuse us.

597
00:45:26,150 --> 00:45:30,710
And Like when Anne was telling, um, doing a story about that, you know, she

598
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:35,269
said, um, in a process that she was reading, you know, and that she was reading

599
00:45:35,269 --> 00:45:39,829
around the Alpha Course, but she was also reading scripture. Yeah. And, you

600
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:44,390
know, somebody said to me, um, numerous times in the last couple of years, um,

601
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:48,950
I've got some people say, what, how, you know, what, you know, what do we do?

602
00:45:48,950 --> 00:45:53,510
And, um, and I said to them this, and I don't think it's I don't think this is

603
00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:58,070
mine. I probably stole this from somebody else, but I believe it's true. And

604
00:45:58,070 --> 00:46:02,630
that is, I'd say stay in Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, the Gospels, for 2

605
00:46:02,630 --> 00:46:07,190
years. Just read them and you'll get to know the character of Jesus. And that's

606
00:46:07,190 --> 00:46:11,750
the character he's trying to work into you and I.

607
00:46:11,750 --> 00:46:11,929
Yeah.

608
00:46:11,929 --> 00:46:15,489
And the attitudes that go with that, you know, that takes great discipline.

609
00:46:16,030 --> 00:46:20,030
And we get disciple and discipline But it's interesting again, because coming

610
00:46:20,030 --> 00:46:24,030
back to this concept of grace, isn't it, that, you know, God makes me a

611
00:46:24,030 --> 00:46:28,030
fisherman and man, but at the same time there needs to be discipline. And it's

612
00:46:28,030 --> 00:46:32,030
not like I can just— it doesn't just come down and go, you know, easy whizzy,

613
00:46:32,030 --> 00:46:36,030
let's get busy. It's like there has— there's this partnership, isn't there?

614
00:46:36,030 --> 00:46:40,030
Yeah. Where it's, it's not, um, laziness on my part, but it's not self-effort.

615
00:46:40,030 --> 00:46:44,030
And that's a real interesting tightrope to walk.

616
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:49,539
But I loved what Dave said about, um, that, that with the disciples, it was

617
00:46:49,539 --> 00:46:54,800
walking and talking and eating and breaking bread with Jesus day by day by day.

618
00:46:54,849 --> 00:46:55,070
Totally.

619
00:46:55,070 --> 00:46:58,630
And that is what was transformational. And I think it's the same for us.

620
00:46:58,630 --> 00:46:58,869
Yes.

621
00:46:58,869 --> 00:47:02,983
Like, we, we walk with God, we talk to God, we break bread with God, we read the

622
00:47:02,983 --> 00:47:07,096
Bible. We do, we do these practices not out of obligation or because anyone says

623
00:47:07,096 --> 00:47:11,210
we have to.

624
00:47:11,210 --> 00:47:11,630
Yeah.

625
00:47:11,659 --> 00:47:15,596
But because it's just part of that walking with Jesus day by day. And, you know,

626
00:47:15,596 --> 00:47:19,533
I love what you said about how it's like walking with him that was

627
00:47:19,533 --> 00:47:23,470
transformational. It wasn't, you know, there's something about it that's like

628
00:47:23,470 --> 00:47:27,406
that day by day. Yeah, kind of seeing how he does it, watching how he does it.

629
00:47:27,406 --> 00:47:31,343
And there's that, there's that verse, isn't there, about like learning and force

630
00:47:31,343 --> 00:47:35,280
rhythms of grace? I can't remember where it's from now, but—

631
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:36,900
Oh, that's about Message translation.

632
00:47:36,900 --> 00:47:40,542
Yeah, it is. But it talks about like like, look, watch me, learn from me, see

633
00:47:40,542 --> 00:47:44,185
how I do it, and you'll learn the unforced rhythms of grace. And I think, yeah,

634
00:47:44,185 --> 00:47:47,828
that, that is one of my favorite verses really, because I think you could spend

635
00:47:47,828 --> 00:47:51,471
your whole life, yeah, like, just learning more of that, like, watching how

636
00:47:51,471 --> 00:47:55,114
Jesus does it, learning from him, and learning those unforced rhythms of grace,

637
00:47:55,114 --> 00:47:58,757
which are the antidote to striving and self-effort and trying to do it for

638
00:47:58,757 --> 00:48:02,400
yourself.

639
00:48:02,579 --> 00:48:06,965
And he never kicked anybody else for failing. No, you know, for me it wasn't. He

640
00:48:06,965 --> 00:48:11,351
saw them as they were. And I know somebody's probably thinking, oh, you know,

641
00:48:11,351 --> 00:48:15,737
I'm sure that's not right. It is right, because, you know, grace— there's

642
00:48:15,737 --> 00:48:20,123
sufficient grace for us to fail. Yeah. And he still loves us in our following.

643
00:48:20,123 --> 00:48:24,510
You know, when he said something about being fishers of men, just harken back to

644
00:48:24,510 --> 00:48:28,896
that a little bit. You know, he spoke to him about something dang new. He's a

645
00:48:28,896 --> 00:48:33,282
carpenter, so he ain't going to teach them a whole lot about being fishermen,

646
00:48:33,282 --> 00:48:37,668
you know. So when he's talking to them about fishing, they're like, we're

647
00:48:37,668 --> 00:48:42,054
talking about hard work here, we're talking about toil and sweat, and then we're

648
00:48:42,054 --> 00:48:46,440
talking about the fellowship.

649
00:48:46,440 --> 00:48:47,340
We—

650
00:48:47,340 --> 00:48:51,485
yeah, of going out together even when we don't want to. Yeah, and toiling

651
00:48:51,485 --> 00:48:55,631
together and seeing us on our best days, on our worst days. And that's why, you

652
00:48:55,631 --> 00:48:59,776
know, Family is important, you know, church family, you know, that is part of

653
00:48:59,776 --> 00:49:03,922
the discipleship model as well, that we, we are not in competition with each

654
00:49:03,922 --> 00:49:08,067
other. So true, you know, that we walk together and we celebrate. Because those

655
00:49:08,067 --> 00:49:12,213
first people Jesus called, I'm like, man, I would have loved to have been there

656
00:49:12,213 --> 00:49:16,358
to see how they worked that out. Yeah, they work out several times. You said

657
00:49:16,358 --> 00:49:20,504
grace, it's unmerited, you know, it can't be earned, it's just there for us to

658
00:49:20,504 --> 00:49:24,650
draw on.

659
00:49:24,650 --> 00:49:25,849
Yeah, that's so true.

660
00:49:25,849 --> 00:49:29,466
I just found that— I just found that verse because I love it. So, um, it's like,

661
00:49:29,466 --> 00:49:33,083
are you tired? Yeah. Worn out? Burnt out on religion? Come to me, get away with

662
00:49:33,083 --> 00:49:36,699
me, and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take rest. Walk with me

663
00:49:36,699 --> 00:49:40,316
and work with me. Watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I

664
00:49:40,316 --> 00:49:43,933
won't lay anything heavy or unfitting on you. Keep company with me and you'll

665
00:49:43,933 --> 00:49:47,550
learn to live freely and lightly.

666
00:49:47,610 --> 00:49:49,190
Yeah. Where's that? And That's—

667
00:49:49,190 --> 00:49:50,309
oh, I've just closed it.

668
00:49:50,309 --> 00:49:50,949
Sorry.

669
00:49:50,949 --> 00:49:51,510
It's on a phone.

670
00:49:51,510 --> 00:49:51,920
It's in a message.

671
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:52,809
On my phone, yeah.

672
00:49:52,809 --> 00:49:53,170
Yeah, yeah.

673
00:49:53,170 --> 00:49:59,230
No, it's the message version, but it's Matthew 11.

674
00:49:59,230 --> 00:49:59,730
Yeah.

675
00:49:59,730 --> 00:50:00,130
Yeah.

676
00:50:00,130 --> 00:50:02,829
I'm sure somebody else needs to hear that again. Can you say it again?

677
00:50:03,269 --> 00:50:07,172
Matthew 11:28-30 is, "Are you tired, worn out, burnt out on religion? Come to

678
00:50:07,172 --> 00:50:11,074
me, get away with me, and you'll recover your life. I'll show you how to take a

679
00:50:11,074 --> 00:50:14,976
real rest. Walk with me and work with me." Watch how I do it. Learn the enforced

680
00:50:14,976 --> 00:50:18,878
rhythms of grace. I won't lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company

681
00:50:18,878 --> 00:50:22,780
with me and you'll learn to live free and light.

682
00:50:23,090 --> 00:50:26,909
Why would we not wanna walk with him? Why would we not? Why would we not, hey?

683
00:50:26,909 --> 00:50:27,170
Yeah, yeah.

684
00:50:27,170 --> 00:50:27,670
That's it.

685
00:50:27,670 --> 00:50:28,110
Hear that.

686
00:50:28,110 --> 00:50:30,670
That is just wonderful. Wonderful.

687
00:50:30,670 --> 00:50:33,223
But I think it's important to understand, again, going back to the point you

688
00:50:33,223 --> 00:50:35,776
mentioned earlier, my yoke is easy. That means you have to take the yoke still.

689
00:50:35,776 --> 00:50:38,329
Yeah.

690
00:50:38,329 --> 00:50:38,550
Right?

691
00:50:38,550 --> 00:50:42,756
My burden is light, but there is a burden. Yeah, absolutely. This is not like

692
00:50:42,756 --> 00:50:46,963
problem-free life. There's a fight, there's a, you know, you can't let things

693
00:50:46,963 --> 00:50:51,170
rob you, um, of those things. Like a yoke, we don't use this language anymore,

694
00:50:51,170 --> 00:50:55,376
but that's what you pull around a cattle as it walks down the field and pulls it

695
00:50:55,376 --> 00:50:59,583
out, right? That's what it is. And so we've got a, you know, there's some

696
00:50:59,583 --> 00:51:03,789
tension there, there's some resistance that we have to push against.

697
00:51:04,880 --> 00:51:07,329
But it's only a rope if you start pulling in the wrong direction. Walk against

698
00:51:07,329 --> 00:51:09,780
it.

699
00:51:09,969 --> 00:51:10,110
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

700
00:51:10,369 --> 00:51:16,170
You know, pull against it. You know, pull against the older, wiser, bigger ox.

701
00:51:16,170 --> 00:51:19,190
I just think it's such good, good imagery. You know, this sort of my yoke is

702
00:51:19,190 --> 00:51:22,210
easy, my burden is light.

703
00:51:22,210 --> 00:51:22,590
Yeah.

704
00:51:22,590 --> 00:51:26,650
It's just such a good imagery of the call of God, isn't it?

705
00:51:26,650 --> 00:51:27,230
It's true.

706
00:51:27,230 --> 00:51:31,309
Yes, we're gonna walk. Yes, we're gonna plow. Yes, there's gonna be some

707
00:51:31,309 --> 00:51:35,389
resistance, but try a different way, you've still got resistance, you've still

708
00:51:35,389 --> 00:51:39,470
got a problem. And guess what? That's going to be a lot harder. Yeah, right. And

709
00:51:39,470 --> 00:51:43,550
so, and I think the amount of times I hear people— I think I've heard you say,

710
00:51:43,550 --> 00:51:47,630
and actually, you know, some of the stuff that you guys have gone through, or

711
00:51:47,630 --> 00:51:51,710
going through that without God.

712
00:51:51,710 --> 00:51:55,388
Yeah. Yeah, it'll be harder than with God. Yeah, exactly. And I think you can

713
00:51:55,388 --> 00:51:59,066
say that about most difficult things in life. Like, yeah, life, life can be

714
00:51:59,066 --> 00:52:02,744
really hard and really unfair at times. But it's rare that it's going to be any

715
00:52:02,744 --> 00:52:06,423
easier without God. Like, I can't think of an example in my life where I think,

716
00:52:06,423 --> 00:52:10,101
'If only I'd gone through that without God, it would have been so much easier.'

717
00:52:10,101 --> 00:52:13,780
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not one.

718
00:52:13,780 --> 00:52:19,094
One of the interesting things, coming back to this then, is with the disciples.

719
00:52:19,094 --> 00:52:24,407
So they drop their nets, they become fishers of men, but when they are unsure

720
00:52:24,407 --> 00:52:29,722
about Jesus You know, he's been arrested, he's been crucified, when the whole

721
00:52:29,722 --> 00:52:35,036
world has gone into meltdown. That's what they return back to, and that's what

722
00:52:35,036 --> 00:52:40,349
intrigues me. And in fact, um, that's what he knew they were.

723
00:52:40,389 --> 00:52:44,054
Yeah, yeah, sorry, it is, it is, it is. That's what he knew they would go back

724
00:52:44,054 --> 00:52:47,719
to, the old— yeah, source.

725
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:51,383
Yeah, there is that temp— there is that pull, isn't there? I think when, when

726
00:52:51,383 --> 00:52:55,047
life is not clear, when you're not really understanding what's going on, there's

727
00:52:55,047 --> 00:52:58,711
that pull to go back to how things were, um, especially, you know, if you, if

728
00:52:58,711 --> 00:53:02,375
you weren't always a Christian, to be pulled back into— like, for me, I suppose,

729
00:53:02,375 --> 00:53:06,038
for example, I've, I pulled back into maybe the way that I would talk, the way

730
00:53:06,038 --> 00:53:09,702
that I would think, the way that I would react to things. There is that

731
00:53:09,702 --> 00:53:13,366
temptation to go back to saying— you have to remind yourself, that's what I let

732
00:53:13,366 --> 00:53:17,030
go of.

733
00:53:17,030 --> 00:53:17,650
Yes.

734
00:53:17,650 --> 00:53:19,916
Yeah, I think the, you know, you, you bring that point up, it's really

735
00:53:19,916 --> 00:53:22,183
interesting because, like, Jesus, like, yeah, he knows where they're going to go

736
00:53:22,183 --> 00:53:24,449
back to.

737
00:53:26,369 --> 00:53:26,650
Mm-hmm.

738
00:53:26,650 --> 00:53:31,497
You know, but they had to come, what Jesus said happened, and they had to come

739
00:53:31,497 --> 00:53:36,344
back to what Jesus has said. The plan wasn't changing, and it was good for them,

740
00:53:36,344 --> 00:53:41,191
but they were dealing with very human things, a sense of loss, that they thought

741
00:53:41,191 --> 00:53:46,038
they'd lost the one they loved so much, the one they'd given everything up for.

742
00:53:46,038 --> 00:53:50,885
And this is where the grace again comes in. So he doesn't come with a rebuke,

743
00:53:50,885 --> 00:53:55,732
you know, comes back to them and loves on them and says, okay, we're going back

744
00:53:55,732 --> 00:54:00,579
again. Yeah, you know.

745
00:54:00,579 --> 00:54:04,960
Yeah. And I also loved, um, what you said, Dave, about, um, how they all had

746
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:09,340
their parts to play. So like, it's interesting, isn't it, that Jesus calls 12,

747
00:54:09,340 --> 00:54:13,719
12 blokes, not just like 1 or 2 or 3. He didn't need 12, but it's like, it's

748
00:54:13,719 --> 00:54:18,099
almost like right from the start it's baked in there.

749
00:54:18,099 --> 00:54:18,599
Yeah, yeah.

750
00:54:18,599 --> 00:54:22,478
That this, this walking with Jesus is not a solo sport. You do it in group and

751
00:54:22,478 --> 00:54:26,357
in relationship with others, and that like one of you might be good at one thing

752
00:54:26,357 --> 00:54:30,235
and, you know, someone else around the table, metaphorically speaking or

753
00:54:30,235 --> 00:54:34,114
physically, yeah, yeah, yeah, you know, it's going to be good at something else.

754
00:54:34,114 --> 00:54:37,992
And it's like you all bring your different bits and you don't have to have it

755
00:54:37,992 --> 00:54:41,871
all perfect or be good at everything. You just bring, you bring what you've got

756
00:54:41,871 --> 00:54:45,750
to that community. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

757
00:54:45,800 --> 00:54:50,161
I think it's, um, I think sometimes we think everything's got to be perfect and

758
00:54:50,161 --> 00:54:54,523
God isn't in it if there's any um, difficulty, any measure of difficulty. Well,

759
00:54:54,523 --> 00:54:58,885
you know, God can't be in this thing. Like, this is, this is our learning

760
00:54:58,885 --> 00:55:03,246
moment. This is our trust moment, you know. And, um, I think we use the word

761
00:55:03,246 --> 00:55:07,608
disciple so much, and yet we think if we're going to be a disciple, certain

762
00:55:07,608 --> 00:55:11,969
discipleship things are required.

763
00:55:12,110 --> 00:55:12,710
Yeah.

764
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:17,342
And that is, you know, a trust in God, a trust in God's word. When all these

765
00:55:17,342 --> 00:55:21,976
different things are happening in our lives— but not to live in the now. We

766
00:55:21,976 --> 00:55:26,608
don't need to live in the now. We just need to submit them to Christ. And they

767
00:55:26,608 --> 00:55:31,242
are horrendous. We've all been through horrendous things, very different things.

768
00:55:31,242 --> 00:55:35,875
And like, you know, when I was nursing, you know, part of my job was to talk to

769
00:55:35,875 --> 00:55:40,507
families and say like, you know, your baby isn't gonna make this. And I don't

770
00:55:40,507 --> 00:55:45,141
know, I've said it far too many times. And, you know, and end-of-life care for

771
00:55:45,141 --> 00:55:49,773
children. —and I'm like, you know, I felt it was a privilege to be able, you

772
00:55:49,773 --> 00:55:54,407
know, to be there. I felt God had put me there. And I'm like, I don't know how

773
00:55:54,407 --> 00:55:59,039
you walk through—

774
00:55:59,039 --> 00:56:00,639
That. Yeah.

775
00:56:00,639 --> 00:56:05,653
—loss and grief without Christ. I know lots of people do, hear me. You know, I'm

776
00:56:05,653 --> 00:56:10,668
just saying, for me, I don't know how people do, because he's there. And he's

777
00:56:10,668 --> 00:56:15,681
left us the Holy Spirit, whose name—one of his names is the Comforter. Yeah, and

778
00:56:15,681 --> 00:56:20,695
we, you know, so I, I don't— I really don't know how people get by. I'm just

779
00:56:20,695 --> 00:56:25,710
feeling so thankful that we have Christ with us.

780
00:56:25,750 --> 00:56:29,730
Yeah, totally, totally. And I think just to sort of square the circle or circle

781
00:56:29,730 --> 00:56:33,710
the square, whatever the phrase is, um, to bring that full round, I think what

782
00:56:33,710 --> 00:56:37,690
are the talents that you have that God's calling you to use on his behalf?

783
00:56:37,690 --> 00:56:41,670
What's the language that God's using I love in the comments, Alicia put that

784
00:56:41,670 --> 00:56:45,650
Jesus is a carpenter. He's used to taking big clumps of wood and turning them

785
00:56:45,650 --> 00:56:49,630
into something quite useful.

786
00:56:50,110 --> 00:56:54,679
I love your comments. Your comments are absolutely fantastic.

787
00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:55,199
So true.

788
00:56:55,500 --> 00:56:56,179
I love them.

789
00:56:56,179 --> 00:56:56,250
It's true.

790
00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:00,731
Yeah, I'm a big clump of wood. Anyway, it was interesting, again, going back to

791
00:57:00,731 --> 00:57:04,664
the story. They were fishermen. They returned to fishing when they didn't

792
00:57:04,664 --> 00:57:08,596
understand things. But the redemption in that story is Jesus barbecued fish with

793
00:57:08,596 --> 00:57:12,528
them on the beach. And I'm like, I would love to have some of that fish, right?

794
00:57:12,528 --> 00:57:16,460
One day.

795
00:57:16,460 --> 00:57:22,139
I'm happy to be on the beach. I'll be on the beach with you, Jesus.

796
00:57:22,139 --> 00:57:27,483
Let me just also give a shout out. So I'm just going through the comments here.

797
00:57:27,483 --> 00:57:32,826
I'm sorry if I butcher your name, Bukirwa from, where did you say you were from?

798
00:57:32,826 --> 00:57:38,170
From Uganda. Uh, so welcome to the live stream, man. Good to have you. Good to

799
00:57:38,170 --> 00:57:43,513
be here. Um, and yeah, he's put in the comments, Matthew 11:28 is indeed the

800
00:57:43,513 --> 00:57:48,856
verse, so comforting. She— sorry, she— uh, thank you for correcting me, Daniel.

801
00:57:48,856 --> 00:57:54,199
Uh, that is the verse, so comforting.

802
00:57:54,199 --> 00:57:54,760
Yeah.

803
00:57:54,900 --> 00:57:59,492
Um, and so yeah, some great comments tonight. Um, Alice put in the comments, uh,

804
00:57:59,492 --> 00:58:04,085
she's thinking of Elisha immediately stopping what he was doing, offering a

805
00:58:04,085 --> 00:58:08,677
sacrifice and saying goodbye to his family to follow Elijah. Yeah, it's really—

806
00:58:08,677 --> 00:58:13,269
that's another great story. It is. If you're not familiar with it, it's

807
00:58:13,269 --> 00:58:17,862
definitely in the— go check it out in the Old Testament about what happens when

808
00:58:17,862 --> 00:58:22,454
Elijah calls Elisha to walk with him in this sort of discipleship, uh, culture

809
00:58:22,454 --> 00:58:27,047
type thing. Um, but yeah, great conversation. Thank you so much for your

810
00:58:27,047 --> 00:58:31,639
comments. Thanks, guys. Love that. Time has just flown by.

811
00:58:32,179 --> 00:58:32,250
It has?

812
00:58:32,250 --> 00:58:36,767
It just felt like we started and now we're finishing. So thank you for joining

813
00:58:36,767 --> 00:58:41,284
us. We are gonna go over to Live Lounge. If you don't know what Live Lounge is,

814
00:58:41,284 --> 00:58:45,802
this is where we go onto Google Meet. So if you're online and you want to come

815
00:58:45,802 --> 00:58:50,319
and chat with us, Dave will be in there, I'll be in there, Anna will be in

816
00:58:50,319 --> 00:58:54,836
there. Come chat with us in the Google Meet. The link is in the comments,

817
00:58:54,836 --> 00:58:59,354
Daniel, is it not? It is. He's giving me a thumbs up. Obviously, God wants to

818
00:58:59,354 --> 00:59:03,871
talk to me. Just get on with it. So yeah, just follow that link,

819
00:59:03,871 --> 00:59:08,388
go.crowd.church/meet. And you can come say how's it to us. We'll only be in

820
00:59:08,388 --> 00:59:12,905
there like 5 or 10 minutes. It's not a big long thing. But it's just always nice

821
00:59:12,905 --> 00:59:17,423
to meet people after the service. Next week. I think it's me. It's me, isn't it?

822
00:59:17,423 --> 00:59:21,940
Speaking next week and baby, you're hosting, right? And Will's hosting. So

823
00:59:21,940 --> 00:59:26,458
talking about what it means to be the salt of the earth. So, uh, yeah, when I

824
00:59:26,458 --> 00:59:30,975
figured that out, I'll let you know. Um, so we're going to be talking about that

825
00:59:30,975 --> 00:59:35,492
next week. Um, but yeah, anything else, uh, from you guys in closing? I'll start

826
00:59:35,492 --> 00:59:40,010
with you.

827
00:59:40,929 --> 00:59:43,929
Um, no, I just want to give another plug to the Alpha Course. So, you know, if

828
00:59:43,929 --> 00:59:46,929
anything that we've said tonight connects, you know, go check it out. There's,

829
00:59:46,929 --> 00:59:49,929
you know, we do them through Crowd Church, or if you can't wait for that one,

830
00:59:49,929 --> 00:59:52,929
there's hundreds of other ones across the country.

831
00:59:52,929 --> 00:59:52,929
Yeah.

832
00:59:54,849 --> 00:59:58,029
Both in local churches and online, or just grab the book like I did. Just start

833
00:59:58,029 --> 01:00:01,210
digging deeper.

834
01:00:01,210 --> 01:00:04,023
Yep, and if you want to know more about that, go to crowd.church/alpha. You'll

835
01:00:04,023 --> 01:00:06,836
find a whole bunch of stuff there. So yeah, that's there. Anything else from

836
01:00:06,836 --> 01:00:09,650
you, G?

837
01:00:09,730 --> 01:00:14,900
If you don't know Jesus today, if you haven't come to a place where you've never

838
01:00:14,900 --> 01:00:20,070
surrendered your life to him, forget the terminology. You know whether you have

839
01:00:20,070 --> 01:00:25,239
or not. I want to ask you this question. What is it that hinders you from being

840
01:00:25,239 --> 01:00:30,409
able to say, Jesus, if you're real, reveal yourself to me in whatever way—

841
01:00:30,409 --> 01:00:35,579
you're God, you can do anything— reveal yourself to me. And just open up your

842
01:00:35,579 --> 01:00:40,750
heart and your mind.

843
01:00:40,750 --> 01:00:41,150
Yep.

844
01:00:41,150 --> 01:00:44,100
And he will speak, because the invitation today to you is as real as what it was

845
01:00:44,100 --> 01:00:47,050
to those disciples.

846
01:00:47,090 --> 01:00:52,940
Yeah. Very good. Come follow me. It's a worthwhile thing to do. It really is.

847
01:00:53,230 --> 01:00:53,250
Yeah.

848
01:00:53,250 --> 01:00:57,239
And my plea will be, give it as much gusto as you can when you follow him. Don't

849
01:00:57,239 --> 01:01:01,230
be that complaining kid in the back.

850
01:01:02,239 --> 01:01:02,730
Hmm.

851
01:01:02,730 --> 01:01:05,519
Right? Don't be that person. Follow him with everything you've got, because it's

852
01:01:05,519 --> 01:01:08,309
very much a worthwhile journey.

853
01:01:08,309 --> 01:01:08,869
Yes.

854
01:01:08,869 --> 01:01:13,003
And a great calling. So yeah, hopefully you got something out of this tonight as

855
01:01:13,003 --> 01:01:17,137
well. If you're a Christ follower already, just like God, What is it you want me

856
01:01:17,137 --> 01:01:21,270
to do? Where do you want me to go? What's the plan? Who are the fishes of men

857
01:01:21,270 --> 01:01:25,404
that you want me to think about here? What talents has he given you that you

858
01:01:25,404 --> 01:01:29,537
could use for the kingdom of God? All those kind of things, always good to think

859
01:01:29,537 --> 01:01:33,671
about. Maybe there's a course correction. Maybe you are on the course already

860
01:01:33,671 --> 01:01:37,804
and God's just going to reaffirm that to you. Whatever it is, it's always good

861
01:01:37,804 --> 01:01:41,938
to know you're in the will of God doing what God wants you to do. Um, and so I

862
01:01:41,938 --> 01:01:46,072
encourage you to spend that time. But thank you so much for joining us this

863
01:01:46,072 --> 01:01:50,205
week. We will see you next week. If we don't see you Live Lounge, which we're

864
01:01:50,205 --> 01:01:54,339
going to in about 30 seconds' time. Um, we will see you next week. But that's it

865
01:01:54,339 --> 01:01:58,472
from Anna, that's it from Dave, and from myself. Thank you so much for joining

866
01:01:58,472 --> 01:02:02,606
us. Have a phenomenal week wherever you are in the world. God bless you. We'll

867
01:02:02,606 --> 01:02:06,739
see you next time. Bye for now. Bye.