Good morning, Sean, and thank you for

2

00:00:01,250 --> 00:00:02,625

joining us on the show today.

3

00:00:02,833 --> 00:00:04,750

I know you've just had a cold, so I'm

4

00:00:04,750 --> 00:00:05,666

thankful for your time.

5

00:00:06,541 --> 00:00:07,583

Now, I know we're going to be talking

6

00:00:07,583 --> 00:00:09,875

about a lot today, everything from your

7

00:00:09,875 --> 00:00:12,958

personal journey with CFS and your

8

00:00:12,958 --> 00:00:14,291

thoughts, as well as your thoughts on

9

00:00:14,291 --> 00:00:15,875

psilocybin and the state of the longevity

10

00:00:15,875 --> 00:00:16,791

industry as a whole.

11

00:00:17,416 --> 00:00:19,041

Before we get into that, though, would

12

00:00:19,041 --> 00:00:20,958

you mind quickly introducing yourself to

13

00:00:20,958 --> 00:00:21,833

the audience for us?

14

00:00:21,833 --> 00:00:23,625

To be honest, I don't think it's probably

15

00:00:23,625 --> 00:00:26,083

necessary, but there are always going to

16

00:00:26,083 --> 00:00:27,625

be a few people who are new to the scene

17

00:00:27,625 --> 00:00:29,083

and maybe aren't familiar with you.

18

00:00:30,916 --> 00:00:33,208

If we could just dig a bit deep into your

19

00:00:33,208 --> 00:00:35,458

story, I know, Adith, you started out in

20

00:00:35,458 --> 00:00:37,125

the product formulation space where you

21

00:00:37,125 --> 00:00:38,583

were pretty successful and then you ran

22

00:00:38,583 --> 00:00:40,958

into a series of health issues and that

23

00:00:40,958 --> 00:00:43,041

you were ultimately diagnosed with what I

24

00:00:43,041 --> 00:00:44,541

believe was obtututually at the moment.

25

00:00:45,125 --> 00:00:46,833

But yeah, if you could just walk us

26

00:00:46,833 --> 00:00:47,625

through that, I'll shut

27

00:00:47,625 --> 00:00:48,916

up and let you get into it.

28

00:00:49,166 --> 00:00:51,333

Yeah, you did it correctly.

29

00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:52,958

You know me well.

30

00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,750

I have had a slew of health issues, in

31

00:00:57,750 --> 00:01:00,291

particular autoimmune issues, as you

32

00:01:00,291 --> 00:01:02,041

mentioned, chronic fatigue syndrome,

33

00:01:02,250 --> 00:01:05,458

Hashimoto's, Epstein-Barr fibromyalgia.

34

00:01:06,208 --> 00:01:08,333

At one point, I couldn't get out of bed

35

00:01:08,333 --> 00:01:09,625

for about six months.

36

00:01:10,125 --> 00:01:12,291

Literally, it was a struggle to just

37

00:01:12,291 --> 00:01:13,500

crawl to the bathroom,

38

00:01:15,041 --> 00:01:18,458

which led to me really pushing down this

39

00:01:18,458 --> 00:01:21,666

path with a much greater fervor to

40

00:01:21,666 --> 00:01:23,958

understand what was going on with me and

41

00:01:23,958 --> 00:01:27,333

solutions for a way out, which led me to

42

00:01:27,333 --> 00:01:31,250

keto, paleo, intermittent fasting, immune

43

00:01:31,250 --> 00:01:33,625

health supplements, mitochondrial health,

44

00:01:34,125 --> 00:01:35,208

and all the things that I

45

00:01:35,208 --> 00:01:36,625

become so passionate about.

46

00:01:37,833 --> 00:01:41,625

I did have a brain tumor at one point,

47

00:01:41,625 --> 00:01:46,458

luckily non-cancerous, but it did cause a

48

00:01:46,458 --> 00:01:48,125

number of endocrine issues,

49

00:01:49,166 --> 00:01:50,458

severe headaches, etc.

50

00:01:52,500 --> 00:01:57,500

And then my accomplishments is I've

51

00:01:57,500 --> 00:01:58,625

written a best-selling book

52

00:01:58,625 --> 00:02:00,416

called The Energy Formula.

53

00:02:00,958 --> 00:02:03,416

It's an international bestseller.

54

00:02:03,833 --> 00:02:05,791

It was listed on Forbes

55

00:02:05,791 --> 00:02:07,666

and USA Today's top 20.

56

00:02:07,708 --> 00:02:12,333

It's just a great biohacking book, but it

57

00:02:12,333 --> 00:02:14,875

also addresses mental health and wellness

58

00:02:14,875 --> 00:02:17,125

and nootropics and supplement stacks.

59

00:02:17,541 --> 00:02:20,416

I'm sure your readers would love it.

60

00:02:20,750 --> 00:02:26,416

It exists in Kindle, ebook, Audible, as

61

00:02:26,416 --> 00:02:28,041

well as softcover, hardcover.

62

00:02:29,416 --> 00:02:32,458

I've formulated about 1200 supplements.

63

00:02:32,833 --> 00:02:34,875

I have a formulation company

64

00:02:34,875 --> 00:02:37,000

called Zone Halo Formulations.

65

00:02:37,875 --> 00:02:40,250

I've worked with hundreds of companies

66

00:02:40,250 --> 00:02:42,500

across the industry, some

67

00:02:42,500 --> 00:02:44,250

multi-billion dollar companies.

68

00:02:45,500 --> 00:02:48,083

I've spoke on stage in about 35 different

69

00:02:48,083 --> 00:02:51,500

countries, and I've patented about 40

70

00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:52,833

unique ingredients, which

71

00:02:52,833 --> 00:02:55,000

we're going to talk about today.

72

00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,166

Some of those things like parazanthine,

73

00:02:58,166 --> 00:02:59,916

baba, ergothionine,

74

00:03:00,375 --> 00:03:02,958

exogenous ketones, dihydroperine.

75

00:03:03,625 --> 00:03:06,000

There's a ton of ingredients that I've

76

00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:08,875

worked on, dilucine, and I'm sure we'll

77

00:03:08,875 --> 00:03:10,333

get into some of them today.

78

00:03:11,125 --> 00:03:13,833

Probably lastly, and maybe most

79

00:03:13,833 --> 00:03:15,166

importantly, I battled

80

00:03:15,166 --> 00:03:17,833

mental health issues.

81

00:03:18,166 --> 00:03:21,000

I had trauma and abuse early in my life,

82

00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:27,291

and I really dealt with chronic anxiety,

83

00:03:27,291 --> 00:03:30,333

depression, and suicidal ideation.

84

00:03:31,625 --> 00:03:34,541

Psychedelics is something that I have

85

00:03:34,541 --> 00:03:36,416

become a big proponent of.

86

00:03:37,083 --> 00:03:40,875

It helped guide me through some really

87

00:03:40,875 --> 00:03:44,916

dark chapters to where I love my life.

88

00:03:45,125 --> 00:03:47,666

I'm proud of my life,

89

00:03:47,666 --> 00:03:48,666

proud of my accomplishments.

90

00:03:49,166 --> 00:03:52,500

I've found new love and family in ways I

91

00:03:52,500 --> 00:03:53,666

never thought possible.

92

00:03:54,875 --> 00:03:56,708

My businesses have 10Xed.

93

00:03:56,708 --> 00:03:57,875

I'm just so grateful

94

00:03:57,875 --> 00:04:00,000

that I had those tools.

95

00:04:01,291 --> 00:04:03,708

So that's something I speak on as well as

96

00:04:03,708 --> 00:04:07,041

the science of depression, the science of

97

00:04:07,041 --> 00:04:08,583

psychedelics, and mental

98

00:04:08,583 --> 00:04:09,833

health and wellness issues.

99

00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:11,750

That's incredible.

100

00:04:12,291 --> 00:04:15,083

I was fortunate enough to be able to

101

00:04:15,083 --> 00:04:17,000

watch your presentation with Mindvalley

102

00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:18,583

just regarding the Silasavan

103

00:04:18,583 --> 00:04:21,291

journey, and it was amazing.

104

00:04:22,541 --> 00:04:24,333

I'd love to talk about ketones and maybe

105

00:04:24,333 --> 00:04:26,833

out the scope of this particular

106

00:04:26,833 --> 00:04:28,125

interview, but that's what I did with

107

00:04:28,125 --> 00:04:29,791

most of my post-grad stuff and was

108

00:04:29,791 --> 00:04:32,625

looking at the effect of BHB, Estison,

109

00:04:32,875 --> 00:04:35,666

NMDA reception, how that can affect

110

00:04:35,666 --> 00:04:37,500

depression outcomes.

111

00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:39,583

I mean, ketones, bound in of themselves,

112

00:04:39,583 --> 00:04:41,541

are just an amazing molecule.

113

00:04:42,583 --> 00:04:43,875

But yeah, maybe we'll have to

114

00:04:43,875 --> 00:04:45,791

have round two at some point.

115

00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,916

Just take a step back quickly.

116

00:04:50,208 --> 00:04:53,708

The the pedurity adenoma, how did you

117

00:04:53,708 --> 00:04:56,333

first figure out, found out

118

00:04:56,333 --> 00:04:58,041

about the presence of that?

119

00:04:58,166 --> 00:05:00,500

Did you have an elevated prolactin or?

120

00:05:01,416 --> 00:05:03,625

Yeah, my prolactin was sky high.

121

00:05:03,625 --> 00:05:06,666

My testosterone was in the double digits.

122

00:05:07,458 --> 00:05:09,666

My free testosterone was

123

00:05:09,666 --> 00:05:10,916

basically non-existent.

124

00:05:11,541 --> 00:05:13,458

My beta estradiol, my

125

00:05:13,458 --> 00:05:16,250

estrogen was extremely high.

126

00:05:16,666 --> 00:05:18,791

So I started just

127

00:05:18,791 --> 00:05:20,458

getting really skinny fat.

128

00:05:22,125 --> 00:05:23,625

My body composition

129

00:05:23,625 --> 00:05:24,875

was radically changing.

130

00:05:25,083 --> 00:05:25,958

Like I said, I started

131

00:05:25,958 --> 00:05:27,958

getting really bad headaches.

132

00:05:28,791 --> 00:05:31,250

I felt fatigued all the time.

133

00:05:31,250 --> 00:05:35,375

I felt a pressure behind my eyes and that

134

00:05:35,375 --> 00:05:38,083

led to looking at my hormones.

135

00:05:38,791 --> 00:05:41,500

Seeing prolactin was very high and

136

00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:43,708

testosterone was very low and beta

137

00:05:43,708 --> 00:05:45,125

estradiol very high.

138

00:05:46,416 --> 00:05:47,916

And then that led them to

139

00:05:47,916 --> 00:05:51,541

do a CT scan of the brain.

140

00:05:51,750 --> 00:05:55,416

And we saw the pituitary adenoma and

141

00:05:55,416 --> 00:05:59,208

treated it with kubergoline as well as

142

00:05:59,208 --> 00:06:03,750

TRT and eczema stain to address a number

143

00:06:03,750 --> 00:06:05,333

of those hormonal issues.

144

00:06:05,333 --> 00:06:07,000

I don't take any of those anymore.

145

00:06:08,375 --> 00:06:09,583

It seems that I've been able

146

00:06:09,583 --> 00:06:11,583

to control it at this point.

147

00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:12,750

So yeah.

148

00:06:12,750 --> 00:06:14,291

Oh, that's fascinating.

149

00:06:14,541 --> 00:06:15,083

You didn't actually

150

00:06:15,083 --> 00:06:16,333

have the adenoma removed.

151

00:06:16,333 --> 00:06:16,625

You're just

152

00:06:17,666 --> 00:06:18,416

controlling it.

153

00:06:18,666 --> 00:06:19,125

Is that correct?

154

00:06:20,083 --> 00:06:21,791

Yeah, if I keep dopamine

155

00:06:21,791 --> 00:06:24,000

fairly high, then I do well.

156

00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:28,958

So I tend to stay on dopaminergics.

157

00:06:30,041 --> 00:06:31,666

Things like, actually my ingredient,

158

00:06:31,666 --> 00:06:33,625

pyrrhizanthine and metabolite of caffeine

159

00:06:33,625 --> 00:06:35,625

is highly dopaminergic.

160

00:06:37,625 --> 00:06:38,750

Tiresine, which I'm a big

161

00:06:38,750 --> 00:06:40,916

fan of, it just lights me up.

162

00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:43,416

I take a gram or two of

163

00:06:43,416 --> 00:06:45,666

tyrosine itself and I feel amazing.

164

00:06:46,875 --> 00:06:48,625

So just keeping the

165

00:06:48,625 --> 00:06:50,416

dopaminergics fairly high.

166

00:06:51,333 --> 00:06:54,583

There's a really interesting experimental

167

00:06:54,583 --> 00:06:56,500

ingredient, neutropic, that I've been

168

00:06:56,500 --> 00:06:58,166

playing with called 9MBC.

169

00:06:59,125 --> 00:07:00,875

And I'm a big fan of that one as well.

170

00:07:01,500 --> 00:07:03,208

That's fascinating.

171

00:07:03,416 --> 00:07:04,625

It's amazing that you've been able to

172

00:07:04,625 --> 00:07:06,625

make so much progress without necessarily

173

00:07:06,625 --> 00:07:07,916

going down the surgical route.

174

00:07:08,791 --> 00:07:10,083

Well, thank you for that intro, Sean.

175

00:07:10,291 --> 00:07:12,083

I know it's not easy being that

176

00:07:12,083 --> 00:07:13,083

vulnerable and I

177

00:07:13,083 --> 00:07:14,333

appreciate your candidness.

178

00:07:15,541 --> 00:07:18,708

Again, I know we could dissect that five

179

00:07:18,708 --> 00:07:21,791

ways till Sundays, but I suppose really

180

00:07:21,791 --> 00:07:23,541

maybe where we could start off with this,

181

00:07:24,166 --> 00:07:27,416

having a discussion around psilocybin,

182

00:07:27,916 --> 00:07:30,250

both with your experiences and thoughts.

183

00:07:32,041 --> 00:07:32,750

Now, I suppose,

184

00:07:33,875 --> 00:07:36,458

yeah, again, how it really helped you and

185

00:07:36,458 --> 00:07:39,083

then again, how you see it maybe beyond

186

00:07:39,083 --> 00:07:42,791

its scope of, not scope, but how it could

187

00:07:42,791 --> 00:07:45,083

be used or potentially beyond just being

188

00:07:45,291 --> 00:07:46,458

a mental health aid.

189

00:07:47,666 --> 00:07:49,916

I have some thoughts about how one might

190

00:07:49,916 --> 00:07:51,750

conceivably look at it

191

00:07:51,750 --> 00:07:52,875

as a longevity molecule.

192

00:07:53,250 --> 00:07:54,500

Maybe we could chat about those in a bit.

193

00:07:54,791 --> 00:07:56,875

But what was your

194

00:07:56,875 --> 00:07:59,166

journey with psilocybin like?

195

00:08:00,875 --> 00:08:01,041

Massive.

196

00:08:02,125 --> 00:08:05,541

I think it's, of all the entheogens and

197

00:08:05,541 --> 00:08:06,958

psychedelics, it's pretty

198

00:08:08,333 --> 00:08:08,625

gentle.

199

00:08:10,250 --> 00:08:13,625

I think it would be less intense than

200

00:08:13,625 --> 00:08:17,583

something like 5MEO or ayahuasca and some

201

00:08:17,583 --> 00:08:18,625

of these kinds of things.

202

00:08:19,958 --> 00:08:22,916

I certainly believe in any of these

203

00:08:22,916 --> 00:08:25,125

compounds not being used

204

00:08:26,333 --> 00:08:30,125

recreationally ideally, but used in a

205

00:08:30,125 --> 00:08:33,083

facilitated setting.

206

00:08:34,500 --> 00:08:36,125

And for me, that was the case.

207

00:08:36,958 --> 00:08:39,125

And I was able to go deeply

208

00:08:39,125 --> 00:08:40,708

into the psilocybin space.

209

00:08:41,458 --> 00:08:44,916

And for me, everything shifted.

210

00:08:45,416 --> 00:08:46,375

I didn't know

211

00:08:47,583 --> 00:08:50,333

I could be loved and have

212

00:08:50,333 --> 00:08:52,583

love in an unconditional way.

213

00:08:54,000 --> 00:09:00,833

For me, as a wounded type A, I was

214

00:09:00,833 --> 00:09:04,416

driving, I was building, I was never

215

00:09:04,416 --> 00:09:05,666

looking back and

216

00:09:05,666 --> 00:09:07,333

nothing was ever good enough.

217

00:09:07,333 --> 00:09:08,375

I kept climbing.

218

00:09:09,083 --> 00:09:11,375

Whatever the next rung on the ladder was,

219

00:09:11,375 --> 00:09:14,208

there was no joy at any level.

220

00:09:15,916 --> 00:09:19,958

And I believe that people could like me,

221

00:09:20,291 --> 00:09:23,583

congratulate me, but I also believe that

222

00:09:23,583 --> 00:09:26,208

that could go away at any second.

223

00:09:26,250 --> 00:09:29,625

That if I was not doing enough,

224

00:09:29,625 --> 00:09:32,583

accomplishing enough, making myself of

225

00:09:32,583 --> 00:09:35,125

value enough, then I didn't have worth.

226

00:09:37,250 --> 00:09:38,666

And that was very difficult.

227

00:09:39,250 --> 00:09:41,125

The abuse I put myself

228

00:09:41,125 --> 00:09:44,083

through for 40 plus years.

229

00:09:45,333 --> 00:09:49,458

And so getting in this space and feeling

230

00:09:49,458 --> 00:09:50,625

that, oh my goodness,

231

00:09:50,958 --> 00:09:52,750

you know, I can be loved.

232

00:09:53,041 --> 00:09:54,291

I can have love.

233

00:09:54,791 --> 00:09:56,500

Love can be unconditional.

234

00:09:57,916 --> 00:09:58,875

I can love myself.

235

00:10:00,333 --> 00:10:01,791

I can be a human being,

236

00:10:01,791 --> 00:10:03,333

not just a human doing.

237

00:10:05,125 --> 00:10:06,458

And I have worth whether

238

00:10:06,458 --> 00:10:08,583

I'm doing nothing or not.

239

00:10:09,083 --> 00:10:10,000

I can be loved whether

240

00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,625

I'm doing nothing or not.

241

00:10:11,833 --> 00:10:13,375

I can just be loved for me.

242

00:10:14,750 --> 00:10:19,208

And I can also take a breath and chase

243

00:10:19,208 --> 00:10:22,708

what lights me up instead of chase what

244

00:10:22,708 --> 00:10:25,625

gives me the most likes, what gives me

245

00:10:25,625 --> 00:10:26,750

the most money, what

246

00:10:26,750 --> 00:10:28,250

gives me the most attention.

247

00:10:29,208 --> 00:10:33,500

I can do things for myself and not just

248

00:10:33,500 --> 00:10:35,500

for others to earn their love.

249

00:10:36,708 --> 00:10:39,750

And this was a profound pivot for me.

250

00:10:40,125 --> 00:10:42,208

It sounds like something that you could

251

00:10:42,208 --> 00:10:45,291

rationalize very easily if someone was

252

00:10:45,291 --> 00:10:47,625

telling you these things, but it's a

253

00:10:47,625 --> 00:10:49,416

whole different thing when you anchor it

254

00:10:49,416 --> 00:10:51,333

in your heart and in your soul and you

255

00:10:51,333 --> 00:10:52,791

feel it and you feel it

256

00:10:52,791 --> 00:10:54,125

throughout your nervous system.

257

00:10:55,291 --> 00:10:57,583

And that trauma was stored in my nervous

258

00:10:57,583 --> 00:11:00,750

system, was stored in the constructs and

259

00:11:00,750 --> 00:11:03,375

the beliefs and how I acted day to day

260

00:11:03,916 --> 00:11:05,750

and to release those things.

261

00:11:06,791 --> 00:11:09,791

You could just see it in my face.

262

00:11:10,000 --> 00:11:11,958

You could feel it with my ease.

263

00:11:12,125 --> 00:11:15,750

You could hear it in my voice that I

264

00:11:15,750 --> 00:11:18,125

released this traumatic

265

00:11:18,125 --> 00:11:20,583

construct, these traumatic ideas.

266

00:11:21,833 --> 00:11:24,250

And I felt better.

267

00:11:24,250 --> 00:11:25,125

I slept better.

268

00:11:25,708 --> 00:11:27,833

I had a whole new lease on life.

269

00:11:27,833 --> 00:11:29,000

I had deeper friendships.

270

00:11:30,458 --> 00:11:32,375

I was more passionate at work.

271

00:11:32,625 --> 00:11:33,875

Everything shifted.

272

00:11:35,083 --> 00:11:36,000

Yeah, that's incredible.

273

00:11:36,250 --> 00:11:38,166

And there's definitely some parallels

274

00:11:38,166 --> 00:11:39,750

there that I can relate to.

275

00:11:40,625 --> 00:11:42,875

Not obviously getting into specifics of

276

00:11:42,875 --> 00:11:45,833

it, but something that I struggled with,

277

00:11:45,833 --> 00:11:48,500

and maybe you can relate to this, is this

278

00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:49,791

inability to feel loved.

279

00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:51,208

Were you able to identify?

280

00:11:51,458 --> 00:11:52,666

Can you identify that?

281

00:11:52,666 --> 00:11:55,291

And did you find psilocybin, the therapy

282

00:11:55,291 --> 00:11:58,916

with psilocybin was able

283

00:11:58,916 --> 00:11:59,833

to resolve any of that?

284

00:12:00,833 --> 00:12:02,416

It absolutely was.

285

00:12:02,833 --> 00:12:05,708

The first journey I went on, the first

286

00:12:05,708 --> 00:12:07,791

experience, facilitated experience,

287

00:12:10,166 --> 00:12:15,416

gave me a deep sense of God's love,

288

00:12:17,125 --> 00:12:20,291

universe love, love of myself,

289

00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:23,500

love of people around me in

290

00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:25,833

a way that I hadn't accepted.

291

00:12:28,083 --> 00:12:30,000

When you believe that

292

00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:31,375

you're not worth loving,

293

00:12:32,708 --> 00:12:37,666

when you live in that space, you cannot

294

00:12:37,666 --> 00:12:39,541

give a deep enough love.

295

00:12:39,916 --> 00:12:42,208

And you can certainly not receive love in

296

00:12:42,208 --> 00:12:45,000

a way that is as deep

297

00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:46,666

as it possibly could be.

298

00:12:47,208 --> 00:12:49,458

There's a barrier to intimacy.

299

00:12:51,291 --> 00:12:55,833

So these constructs were preventing me

300

00:12:55,833 --> 00:12:57,250

from experiencing love.

301

00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,708

I was literally created barriers, even

302

00:13:00,708 --> 00:13:01,416

though it was the one

303

00:13:01,416 --> 00:13:02,541

thing I truly wanted.

304

00:13:03,958 --> 00:13:06,083

And when you're in the psilocybin space,

305

00:13:06,083 --> 00:13:07,458

and some of these other individuals

306

00:13:07,458 --> 00:13:12,333

potentially, it can melt that default

307

00:13:12,333 --> 00:13:16,000

mode network, turn off those barriers,

308

00:13:16,416 --> 00:13:19,375

melt those constructs, and have you

309

00:13:19,375 --> 00:13:22,041

dissolution of the ego and have you in a

310

00:13:22,083 --> 00:13:24,833

highly neuroplastic space where you can

311

00:13:24,833 --> 00:13:28,333

create new synapses, new connections,

312

00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:30,458

create new neural wiring

313

00:13:30,458 --> 00:13:34,125

that can rewrite that code.

314

00:13:34,333 --> 00:13:36,041

You're essentially going into the

315

00:13:36,041 --> 00:13:39,916

operating system and cracking open the

316

00:13:39,916 --> 00:13:41,041

computer case and

317

00:13:41,041 --> 00:13:44,333

just rewriting that code.

318

00:13:45,166 --> 00:13:50,041

And that is profound in a way that I

319

00:13:50,041 --> 00:13:54,083

struggle to see how therapy itself, and

320

00:13:54,083 --> 00:13:55,791

that's a controversial statement, but I

321

00:13:55,791 --> 00:13:58,541

believe this because if you're not...

322

00:13:59,041 --> 00:14:00,666

When we're depressed,

323

00:14:01,666 --> 00:14:02,833

default mode network is

324

00:14:02,833 --> 00:14:04,500

higher than it normally is.

325

00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:06,000

When we're depressed, we're

326

00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:08,208

almost no neuroplasticity.

327

00:14:08,208 --> 00:14:09,000

We stay in loops.

328

00:14:09,458 --> 00:14:11,708

When we're depressed, all the

329

00:14:11,708 --> 00:14:12,875

neurotransmitters are

330

00:14:12,875 --> 00:14:15,458

turned down, so we feel less.

331

00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:19,166

And this is a protective mechanism.

332

00:14:19,416 --> 00:14:22,708

When we're in the entheogen space, all

333

00:14:22,708 --> 00:14:23,791

those neurotransmitters

334

00:14:23,791 --> 00:14:25,500

are turned up globally.

335

00:14:26,666 --> 00:14:27,750

That neuroplasticity

336

00:14:27,750 --> 00:14:29,041

is turned up globally.

337

00:14:29,291 --> 00:14:30,875

There's more blood flow to the brain.

338

00:14:31,541 --> 00:14:33,541

Default mode network is turned off.

339

00:14:34,541 --> 00:14:37,208

Neuroinflammation is turned down, and

340

00:14:37,208 --> 00:14:38,875

then anything is possible.

341

00:14:39,833 --> 00:14:43,333

That idea that you've been skiing down

342

00:14:43,333 --> 00:14:46,833

the same ski slope and there's tracks and

343

00:14:46,833 --> 00:14:48,666

you're following those tracks because

344

00:14:48,666 --> 00:14:50,500

you've always followed those tracks and

345

00:14:50,500 --> 00:14:51,958

it makes the most sense because the

346

00:14:51,958 --> 00:14:53,291

tracks are there before you.

347

00:14:54,625 --> 00:14:55,291

And so you'll keep

348

00:14:55,291 --> 00:14:56,500

following those tracks.

349

00:14:57,291 --> 00:15:00,666

Whether or not it's the most ideal way

350

00:15:00,666 --> 00:15:02,958

for you now, it's the most

351

00:15:02,958 --> 00:15:04,375

enjoyable way down the mountain.

352

00:15:04,416 --> 00:15:06,083

It's the fastest way down the mountain.

353

00:15:06,333 --> 00:15:06,750

You don't know.

354

00:15:06,958 --> 00:15:08,333

You just know there's tracks there.

355

00:15:09,250 --> 00:15:11,291

But when you can throw fresh powder over

356

00:15:11,291 --> 00:15:14,583

the trail and then recreate

357

00:15:14,583 --> 00:15:16,791

your way down the mountain,

358

00:15:18,041 --> 00:15:19,041

that's a game changer.

359

00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:21,000

No, it definitely is.

360

00:15:21,208 --> 00:15:23,125

And I loved what you said about therapy.

361

00:15:23,708 --> 00:15:25,875

I think therapy obviously has its place,

362

00:15:25,875 --> 00:15:27,833

but it's so one-dimensional.

363

00:15:28,708 --> 00:15:31,041

I mean, how many people do you know, I'm

364

00:15:31,041 --> 00:15:32,666

sure, who have been in therapy for 20

365

00:15:32,666 --> 00:15:33,541

years and who've made

366

00:15:33,541 --> 00:15:35,708

absolutely zero progress?

367

00:15:35,958 --> 00:15:37,916

And you just look at it objectively and

368

00:15:37,916 --> 00:15:39,750

think, well, at some point you've

369

00:15:39,750 --> 00:15:41,500

actually got to take a step back and say,

370

00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:42,500

"Is this really working?"

371

00:15:42,708 --> 00:15:46,833

And I think what Siles Abin and other

372

00:15:46,833 --> 00:15:48,791

psycholetics do so effectively is they

373

00:15:48,791 --> 00:15:51,208

bridge that gap between the physical, the

374

00:15:51,208 --> 00:15:51,666

spiritual,

375

00:15:51,666 --> 00:15:53,500

metaphysical, and the emotional.

376

00:15:54,500 --> 00:15:55,666

And I was listening,

377

00:15:55,666 --> 00:15:57,083

ironically enough, to Dr.

378

00:15:57,083 --> 00:15:58,541

Daniel Arman, who you're obviously

379

00:15:58,541 --> 00:15:59,833

familiar with this morning on Chris

380

00:15:59,833 --> 00:16:01,916

Williamson's podcast, talking about how

381

00:16:01,916 --> 00:16:06,041

so much mental health is

382

00:16:07,208 --> 00:16:08,625

actually sort of a brain

383

00:16:08,625 --> 00:16:10,166

health issue first and foremost.

384

00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,791

And what I love about psychedelics is, as

385

00:16:13,791 --> 00:16:16,000

I've just alluded to and as you alluded

386

00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,500

to, is they're able to sort of bridge

387

00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:20,666

this gap between the physical dysfunction

388

00:16:20,666 --> 00:16:25,583

in terms of rewiring so many of these

389

00:16:25,583 --> 00:16:28,000

sort of dysfunctional, somatic pathways

390

00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,750

in the brain, and then also allowing you

391

00:16:30,750 --> 00:16:35,041

to process that whatever trauma or issue

392

00:16:35,041 --> 00:16:36,083

is going on in your life.

393

00:16:36,958 --> 00:16:38,000

I think it's incredible.

394

00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:39,875

And it's an effective

395

00:16:39,875 --> 00:16:41,083

way of doing it too.

396

00:16:41,541 --> 00:16:43,666

You don't have to sit there and try and

397

00:16:43,666 --> 00:16:46,000

work through complex sessions where

398

00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:47,708

you're processing a lot of emotion.

399

00:16:49,583 --> 00:16:50,916

Anyway, before I got

400

00:16:50,916 --> 00:16:51,791

into that, Robert Hall,

401

00:16:53,333 --> 00:16:55,333

how did your session

402

00:16:57,583 --> 00:16:58,750

work with Stila Sabin?

403

00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,875

I assume you didn't do five gram

404

00:17:01,875 --> 00:17:03,458

peridosis from the get-go.

405

00:17:04,208 --> 00:17:05,333

I did, actually.

406

00:17:05,791 --> 00:17:06,000

I did.

407

00:17:06,250 --> 00:17:06,708

Okay, fair enough.

408

00:17:08,791 --> 00:17:12,750

It wasn't my intention, but they kind of

409

00:17:12,750 --> 00:17:16,291

upped my dose during this experience

410

00:17:16,291 --> 00:17:17,541

because I felt safe.

411

00:17:19,041 --> 00:17:21,625

I was in an environment where that was

412

00:17:21,625 --> 00:17:23,375

the other thing that was so profound for

413

00:17:23,375 --> 00:17:26,833

me, is that I was in a cuddle puddle on

414

00:17:26,833 --> 00:17:30,208

the floor where you have blankets and

415

00:17:30,208 --> 00:17:33,958

pillows, and I was just going deep

416

00:17:33,958 --> 00:17:36,791

internally, but people

417

00:17:36,791 --> 00:17:38,500

were holding space for me.

418

00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:40,291

And that was what was so profound.

419

00:17:40,291 --> 00:17:41,500

I'm like, I didn't know.

420

00:17:41,750 --> 00:17:43,208

A lot of these people in this room, by

421

00:17:43,208 --> 00:17:45,791

the way, this was like a group journey

422

00:17:45,791 --> 00:17:47,791

situation with about 20 people.

423

00:17:49,125 --> 00:17:50,833

Most of them were doing lighter doses,

424

00:17:50,833 --> 00:17:52,250

but a lot of them were

425

00:17:52,250 --> 00:17:54,583

celebrities and people I admired.

426

00:17:55,625 --> 00:17:56,875

But most of them did not

427

00:17:56,875 --> 00:17:58,583

know who I was at the time.

428

00:17:59,833 --> 00:18:02,000

And I had all of these people that were

429

00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:04,458

surrounding me, holding space for me,

430

00:18:04,500 --> 00:18:06,000

laying next to me, asking

431

00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:07,583

me if I needed anything.

432

00:18:08,333 --> 00:18:09,791

And I kept wrestling

433

00:18:09,791 --> 00:18:11,291

with it for several hours.

434

00:18:11,500 --> 00:18:14,000

Like, why are they doing this?

435

00:18:14,208 --> 00:18:15,500

They don't know who I am.

436

00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:16,208

They don't know the

437

00:18:16,208 --> 00:18:17,750

value I can bring to them.

438

00:18:17,750 --> 00:18:18,958

Why would they be kind?

439

00:18:19,416 --> 00:18:21,375

Why would they go out of their way in

440

00:18:21,375 --> 00:18:23,375

their experience to hold

441

00:18:23,375 --> 00:18:24,875

space for me, to help me?

442

00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:30,166

And it just finally broke me open.

443

00:18:30,166 --> 00:18:30,500

I'm like,

444

00:18:33,125 --> 00:18:36,291

because they just want to be kind because

445

00:18:36,291 --> 00:18:38,916

you deserve love, because you're going

446

00:18:38,916 --> 00:18:41,583

through something deeply and

447

00:18:41,583 --> 00:18:43,125

they want to be the change.

448

00:18:44,416 --> 00:18:46,583

They want to be the change that they want

449

00:18:46,583 --> 00:18:47,500

to see in the world.

450

00:18:49,166 --> 00:18:50,833

And so they want someone

451

00:18:50,833 --> 00:18:52,041

to hold space for them.

452

00:18:52,541 --> 00:18:54,583

So they're going to hold space for me.

453

00:18:56,166 --> 00:18:58,541

And that was massive for me.

454

00:18:59,041 --> 00:18:59,250

Massive.

455

00:19:00,125 --> 00:19:01,666

Yeah, I grew up in South Africa.

456

00:19:01,875 --> 00:19:04,583

And there's, for the most part, anyway,

457

00:19:04,583 --> 00:19:06,000

there's a word for that called Ubuntu.

458

00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:06,375

You may have.

459

00:19:06,833 --> 00:19:07,958

Yes, I put it in my book.

460

00:19:08,291 --> 00:19:08,500

Yeah.

461

00:19:08,875 --> 00:19:09,041

Yeah.

462

00:19:09,791 --> 00:19:11,083

That's that's exactly it.

463

00:19:11,125 --> 00:19:12,708

Sort of humanity to others.

464

00:19:12,708 --> 00:19:15,791

It's an incredibly sort of powerful term

465

00:19:15,791 --> 00:19:17,750

that encapsulates, I suppose,

466

00:19:17,750 --> 00:19:18,958

everything you've just said.

467

00:19:20,875 --> 00:19:22,541

Sean, I'd love to maybe talk about what

468

00:19:22,541 --> 00:19:26,708

you feel or maybe some of the physical

469

00:19:26,708 --> 00:19:28,833

sort of mechanisms or underpinnings

470

00:19:28,833 --> 00:19:31,958

behind psilocybin and what you and

471

00:19:31,958 --> 00:19:33,916

whether you think or not, it has

472

00:19:33,916 --> 00:19:35,208

potential beyond just

473

00:19:35,208 --> 00:19:38,000

being a mental health compound.

474

00:19:38,958 --> 00:19:40,958

I mean, the way I see it, anything that

475

00:19:40,958 --> 00:19:42,666

sort of rewires the central nervous

476

00:19:42,708 --> 00:19:44,375

system to the point where you're going to

477

00:19:44,375 --> 00:19:47,250

have a proper functioning, a vagal nerve

478

00:19:47,250 --> 00:19:51,333

and subsequently in a more effectively

479

00:19:51,333 --> 00:19:54,000

firing limbic system and an amygdala is

480

00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,291

going to have a trickle down

481

00:19:56,291 --> 00:19:57,625

effect on the immune system.

482

00:19:57,625 --> 00:19:59,708

And you're going to have lower levels of

483

00:19:59,708 --> 00:20:02,083

these pro-inflammatory cytokines that I

484

00:20:02,083 --> 00:20:04,000

know everybody is very familiar with

485

00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:05,708

after having gone through COVID.

486

00:20:07,375 --> 00:20:09,500

Do you think that there is scope for

487

00:20:09,500 --> 00:20:12,083

utilizing a compound like this in

488

00:20:12,083 --> 00:20:15,791

diseases like CFSME or inflammatory

489

00:20:15,791 --> 00:20:17,750

autoimmune conditions where there is just

490

00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:18,750

that sort of that

491

00:20:18,750 --> 00:20:21,000

constant hyperarousal of the CNS?

492

00:20:21,625 --> 00:20:22,208

I do.

493

00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:23,000

I do.

494

00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:24,041

I do believe that.

495

00:20:24,541 --> 00:20:27,041

I do believe that a lot of

496

00:20:27,041 --> 00:20:29,166

people are in fight or flight.

497

00:20:30,208 --> 00:20:33,625

I believe that people are in that

498

00:20:33,625 --> 00:20:34,541

sympathetic nervous

499

00:20:34,541 --> 00:20:36,791

system with poor vagal tone.

500

00:20:37,166 --> 00:20:38,541

I was one of those people that were

501

00:20:38,625 --> 00:20:44,041

hypervigilant, essentially just looking

502

00:20:44,041 --> 00:20:48,208

for how to survive from moment to moment,

503

00:20:48,625 --> 00:20:50,958

thinking everyone and everything is a

504

00:20:50,958 --> 00:20:52,291

threat to my well-being.

505

00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:57,916

And that's exhausting in terms of ATP and

506

00:20:57,916 --> 00:20:59,833

energy utilization and

507

00:20:59,833 --> 00:21:01,166

these energy systems.

508

00:21:02,041 --> 00:21:05,708

But certainly on a

509

00:21:05,708 --> 00:21:07,791

nervous or electrical system,

510

00:21:10,208 --> 00:21:14,000

like globally kind of scenario as well.

511

00:21:14,375 --> 00:21:17,250

So, it's taking a toll on you.

512

00:21:17,250 --> 00:21:20,041

And this is where Dr.

513

00:21:20,375 --> 00:21:21,291

Joe Dispenza, Dr.

514

00:21:21,291 --> 00:21:23,125

Bruce Lipton talk about these things

515

00:21:23,125 --> 00:21:25,458

being stored in the body as disease.

516

00:21:27,041 --> 00:21:28,916

So, over time, your

517

00:21:28,916 --> 00:21:33,416

suppression doesn't equal dissolution.

518

00:21:34,791 --> 00:21:36,291

The suppression equals

519

00:21:36,291 --> 00:21:39,083

storing it away as disease.

520

00:21:39,416 --> 00:21:41,875

So, to not deal with these emotions, I

521

00:21:41,875 --> 00:21:43,666

love the movie Inside Out, by the way,

522

00:21:44,541 --> 00:21:47,291

because it talks about you recognize the

523

00:21:47,291 --> 00:21:50,250

emotion, you thank the emotion, you give

524

00:21:50,250 --> 00:21:52,208

it its space and then release it.

525

00:21:52,208 --> 00:21:53,750

And this is what we should do with

526

00:21:53,750 --> 00:21:55,333

emotions that come up, and

527

00:21:55,333 --> 00:21:57,208

most certainly trauma as well.

528

00:21:57,208 --> 00:21:59,291

We need to deal with these traumas and

529

00:21:59,291 --> 00:22:02,791

move on from them as best we can, but

530

00:22:02,791 --> 00:22:06,333

certainly not in a suppressive or kind of

531

00:22:06,333 --> 00:22:09,083

self-gaslighting kind of way, but

532

00:22:09,083 --> 00:22:11,958

acknowledging it, dealing with it, going

533

00:22:11,958 --> 00:22:14,375

deep with it, recognizing the lessons

534

00:22:14,375 --> 00:22:17,750

it's giving you, being thankful for it,

535

00:22:17,750 --> 00:22:19,583

and then just moving on from it.

536

00:22:21,125 --> 00:22:23,833

Yeah, it's one of my greatest ambitions.

537

00:22:23,833 --> 00:22:25,166

I'm sure you're familiar with Dr.

538

00:22:25,166 --> 00:22:27,083

Robert Navio, who's sort of coined a lot

539

00:22:27,083 --> 00:22:28,291

of the work around cell

540

00:22:28,291 --> 00:22:29,250

danger response theory.

541

00:22:30,166 --> 00:22:33,208

The idea that mitochondria, when they're

542

00:22:33,208 --> 00:22:37,000

in a stress state, adapts to

543

00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:40,000

a state of lowered ATP output.

544

00:22:41,291 --> 00:22:42,958

And I just am adamant

545

00:22:42,958 --> 00:22:45,166

that by regulating, and Dr.

546

00:22:45,375 --> 00:22:48,125

Navio has done a lot of research looking

547

00:22:48,125 --> 00:22:49,916

into regulating the CNS

548

00:22:49,916 --> 00:22:52,041

with various therapies.

549

00:22:52,041 --> 00:22:53,250

I think he's worked with,

550

00:22:54,625 --> 00:22:56,750

it's gone straight out of my head, the

551

00:22:56,750 --> 00:22:59,833

gentleman who put together trauma release

552

00:22:59,833 --> 00:23:01,583

exercises, for example, that I'm sure

553

00:23:01,583 --> 00:23:02,750

you're familiar with, David Bacelli.

554

00:23:03,625 --> 00:23:05,750

But I'm sure a compound, I'd love to see

555

00:23:05,750 --> 00:23:09,583

how a compound such as this would improve

556

00:23:09,583 --> 00:23:11,750

mitochondrial function directly just by

557

00:23:11,750 --> 00:23:12,458

way of sort of

558

00:23:12,458 --> 00:23:13,791

improving their own nerve tone.

559

00:23:14,333 --> 00:23:16,708

Well, along those lines, Rob, this is why

560

00:23:16,708 --> 00:23:20,791

I recommend adaptogens so deeply,

561

00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:23,458

certainly going into a facilitated

562

00:23:23,458 --> 00:23:25,541

journey, but also just in general.

563

00:23:26,166 --> 00:23:30,166

I love these compounds that are bimodal

564

00:23:30,166 --> 00:23:31,916

in terms of enhancing

565

00:23:31,916 --> 00:23:36,250

resilience because it's enhancing you.

566

00:23:37,166 --> 00:23:39,625

So therefore it will help with better

567

00:23:39,625 --> 00:23:41,416

sleep and better energy.

568

00:23:41,958 --> 00:23:43,833

It will help to normalize your functions

569

00:23:43,833 --> 00:23:46,708

across the body because it's increasing

570

00:23:46,708 --> 00:23:49,458

what's called your allostatic capacity.

571

00:23:50,208 --> 00:23:51,250

And therefore your

572

00:23:52,333 --> 00:23:53,708

capacity to have more

573

00:23:53,708 --> 00:23:55,041

of an allostatic load.

574

00:23:55,041 --> 00:23:56,541

And that just means that you can handle

575

00:23:56,541 --> 00:23:59,500

more stress in your stress bucket.

576

00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:01,291

Your bucket is bigger, so to speak.

577

00:24:01,916 --> 00:24:03,041

So you can deal with more

578

00:24:03,041 --> 00:24:04,958

mental and physical stress.

579

00:24:04,958 --> 00:24:07,041

So I love the adaptogens, things like

580

00:24:07,041 --> 00:24:09,458

ginseng, ashwagandha, rhodiola,

581

00:24:10,541 --> 00:24:11,041

maka.

582

00:24:12,291 --> 00:24:15,416

Most of the functional mushrooms are like

583

00:24:15,416 --> 00:24:18,083

that, and certainly potentially a number

584

00:24:18,083 --> 00:24:19,291

of the psilocybin mushrooms

585

00:24:19,291 --> 00:24:20,583

would be like that as well.

586

00:24:22,666 --> 00:24:25,166

So a huge fan of the adaptogens.

587

00:24:26,416 --> 00:24:27,916

Yeah, they're incredibly powerful.

588

00:24:28,541 --> 00:24:31,500

I'm always slightly concerned about, and

589

00:24:31,500 --> 00:24:33,458

I think there's a bit of an old wives'

590

00:24:33,458 --> 00:24:35,333

tale there about some of the issues with

591

00:24:35,333 --> 00:24:38,458

5L production and things like lion's mane

592

00:24:38,458 --> 00:24:40,000

and ashwagandha, for that matter.

593

00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:42,916

I don't know outside of Reddit, there's

594

00:24:42,916 --> 00:24:45,000

not much data on it that's been peer

595

00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:45,875

reviewed to show that

596

00:24:45,875 --> 00:24:47,041

this is really is an issue.

597

00:24:47,416 --> 00:24:49,583

But do you have any thoughts

598

00:24:49,583 --> 00:24:51,666

there just with regard to...

599

00:24:51,666 --> 00:24:51,875

It's possible.

600

00:24:52,125 --> 00:24:54,250

Lion's mane is probably not my favorite

601

00:24:54,250 --> 00:24:56,083

in terms of neuroplasticity.

602

00:24:56,083 --> 00:24:57,625

Actually a compound called

603

00:24:57,625 --> 00:25:01,583

7,8-dihydroxyflavone seems to be the most

604

00:25:01,583 --> 00:25:03,666

potent and potentially it's metabolites

605

00:25:03,666 --> 00:25:08,333

called 4-dimethylamino or DMA,

606

00:25:08,916 --> 00:25:11,208

7,8-dihydroxyflavone.

607

00:25:11,625 --> 00:25:13,500

I know that sounds like a lot, but you

608

00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:15,416

can get both of these compounds on sites

609

00:25:15,416 --> 00:25:17,041

like Neutropic's Depot.

610

00:25:17,916 --> 00:25:18,791

I know it has them.

611

00:25:19,416 --> 00:25:20,333

You're starting to see

612

00:25:20,333 --> 00:25:22,875

7,8-dihydroxyflavone in some more

613

00:25:22,875 --> 00:25:25,166

mainstream companies' products.

614

00:25:25,416 --> 00:25:28,125

The 4-DMA is probably more gray market

615

00:25:28,125 --> 00:25:30,708

and you won't see that, but those are

616

00:25:30,708 --> 00:25:32,083

more potent for

617

00:25:32,083 --> 00:25:34,791

neuroplasticity than a lion's mane.

618

00:25:35,750 --> 00:25:38,166

When it comes to adaptogens, probably my

619

00:25:38,166 --> 00:25:41,041

favorite by far and away is rhodiola and

620

00:25:41,041 --> 00:25:45,000

in particular a pure selidricide, which

621

00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,791

is the compound that is

622

00:25:46,791 --> 00:25:48,916

the active in rhodiola.

623

00:25:48,916 --> 00:25:49,541

It's not really the

624

00:25:49,541 --> 00:25:51,916

rosabans, it's the selidricide.

625

00:25:52,583 --> 00:25:54,291

And so if you can get a pure fermented

626

00:25:54,291 --> 00:25:56,708

selidricide, that's

627

00:25:56,708 --> 00:25:58,666

probably my most favorite.

628

00:25:59,583 --> 00:26:04,500

No rhodiola is amazing and I know 4-DMA,

629

00:26:04,708 --> 00:26:07,333

I believe that's available on soundstop

630

00:26:07,333 --> 00:26:08,916

bio for anyone who is interested.

631

00:26:10,083 --> 00:26:12,375

But yeah, they are incredible compounds.

632

00:26:14,666 --> 00:26:17,291

I definitely think psilocybin as a whole

633

00:26:17,291 --> 00:26:18,541

needs to be explored

634

00:26:18,541 --> 00:26:23,000

beyond it just as mental health

635

00:26:25,375 --> 00:26:26,916

use cases, which should be said.

636

00:26:26,916 --> 00:26:28,500

I'm sure there's a synthetic chemist out

637

00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:31,083

there who can whip up the metabolites and

638

00:26:31,083 --> 00:26:32,375

formulate them accordingly.

639

00:26:33,875 --> 00:26:35,750

Unfortunately, I don't know about you,

640

00:26:35,750 --> 00:26:39,666

but we didn't do too much organic chem in

641

00:26:39,666 --> 00:26:41,833

school when I was doing my biochem.

642

00:26:42,333 --> 00:26:44,291

So I'll have to leave that to somebody

643

00:26:44,291 --> 00:26:45,791

with more organic experience.

644

00:26:46,208 --> 00:26:46,625

But anyway,

645

00:26:47,875 --> 00:26:51,458

Sean, I'd love to sort of maybe start to

646

00:26:51,458 --> 00:26:54,083

say, excuse me, to say we're into talking

647

00:26:54,083 --> 00:26:56,041

about some supplements in a second, but

648

00:26:56,041 --> 00:26:58,750

first I'd like to get your take on the

649

00:26:58,750 --> 00:27:00,916

longevity industry as a whole.

650

00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,375

Now, I'm a little bit of a cynic and I

651

00:27:04,375 --> 00:27:07,500

feel almost every influencer out there

652

00:27:07,500 --> 00:27:10,041

sort of, no matter what their message,

653

00:27:10,333 --> 00:27:12,458

they always seem to come back to center.

654

00:27:13,583 --> 00:27:14,416

So you've got your

655

00:27:14,416 --> 00:27:16,291

Brian Johnsons who obviously

656

00:27:17,833 --> 00:27:20,291

is the king of biohackers currently and

657

00:27:20,291 --> 00:27:22,833

is doing things like working with that

658

00:27:22,833 --> 00:27:24,916

company, miniserculin, altering his DNA

659

00:27:24,916 --> 00:27:27,500

with clotho and what's the other compound

660

00:27:27,500 --> 00:27:28,791

they follow statin, I

661

00:27:28,791 --> 00:27:29,666

think they're trying to alter.

662

00:27:30,958 --> 00:27:32,291

And then you've got guys like Paul

663

00:27:32,291 --> 00:27:34,458

Saladino on the flip side to tell you

664

00:27:34,458 --> 00:27:35,375

that Kel's going to kill you

665

00:27:35,375 --> 00:27:36,416

if you look at it for too long.

666

00:27:37,333 --> 00:27:39,750

What I find though is that most of them

667

00:27:39,750 --> 00:27:40,625

whenever they start

668

00:27:40,625 --> 00:27:42,333

talking about longevity,

669

00:27:43,458 --> 00:27:45,750

no matter what their sort of, their

670

00:27:45,916 --> 00:27:47,333

niches, they always

671

00:27:47,333 --> 00:27:48,916

come back to the basics.

672

00:27:49,916 --> 00:27:51,875

And they agree on the basics, so sleep,

673

00:27:51,875 --> 00:27:54,000

community, a whole food

674

00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:55,791

diet of one sort or another.

675

00:27:57,416 --> 00:27:59,833

I'd love to know where you stand on this

676

00:28:00,541 --> 00:28:01,458

through this sort of

677

00:28:01,458 --> 00:28:02,375

longevity perspective.

678

00:28:03,625 --> 00:28:06,708

Of course, we share a bias in the sense

679

00:28:06,708 --> 00:28:07,666

that we believe that

680

00:28:07,666 --> 00:28:09,458

nutraceuticals are effective.

681

00:28:09,958 --> 00:28:12,291

But do you feel people who are trying to

682

00:28:12,291 --> 00:28:14,500

optimize for longevity get caught up in

683

00:28:14,500 --> 00:28:18,125

the minutiae of these compounds and

684

00:28:18,125 --> 00:28:19,958

biohacks when they still maybe not

685

00:28:19,958 --> 00:28:21,250

getting the basics into place?

686

00:28:22,666 --> 00:28:23,583

Yes, I do.

687

00:28:23,958 --> 00:28:26,166

And the book, The Energy Formula, by the

688

00:28:26,166 --> 00:28:27,166

way, is Six Pillars.

689

00:28:27,416 --> 00:28:31,333

So it's experiments, like as in knowing

690

00:28:31,333 --> 00:28:34,291

where your baseline is and testing and

691

00:28:34,291 --> 00:28:37,166

even testing what works for you just in

692

00:28:37,166 --> 00:28:39,833

terms of journaling and keeping track of

693

00:28:39,833 --> 00:28:40,875

these kinds of things, food

694

00:28:40,875 --> 00:28:42,500

diaries as best as possible.

695

00:28:43,291 --> 00:28:44,250

And I walk through that.

696

00:28:44,250 --> 00:28:46,000

Then nutrition, like you

697

00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:47,833

said, the basis is whole food.

698

00:28:48,291 --> 00:28:50,500

Yes, you can go into Mediterranean or

699

00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:51,625

Keto or some of these

700

00:28:51,625 --> 00:28:52,708

other kinds of things,

701

00:28:53,750 --> 00:28:55,875

even carnivores, you mentioned pulse, but

702

00:28:55,875 --> 00:28:59,041

the basis is definitely whole food.

703

00:28:59,041 --> 00:29:00,208

Everyone agrees on that.

704

00:29:00,458 --> 00:29:03,833

Then exercise, the core component of

705

00:29:03,833 --> 00:29:06,958

longevity, mental health, well-being,

706

00:29:06,958 --> 00:29:10,916

etc., is certainly a number of forms of

707

00:29:10,916 --> 00:29:13,333

exercise, including resistance training

708

00:29:13,333 --> 00:29:15,208

and just cardiovascular fitness.

709

00:29:16,916 --> 00:29:20,500

Then there is routines and having healthy

710

00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:22,041

routines from how you wake

711

00:29:22,041 --> 00:29:23,791

up with your morning routine.

712

00:29:25,166 --> 00:29:26,625

Certainly, as you

713

00:29:26,625 --> 00:29:28,000

mentioned, sleep hygiene,

714

00:29:29,541 --> 00:29:30,375

having healthy

715

00:29:30,375 --> 00:29:31,708

routines throughout the day.

716

00:29:31,708 --> 00:29:35,750

Then growth and growth mindset is the G

717

00:29:35,750 --> 00:29:43,333

that gets into resilience and the idea of

718

00:29:43,333 --> 00:29:45,250

challenging the brain and keeping the

719

00:29:45,250 --> 00:29:46,625

brain neuroplastic,

720

00:29:47,041 --> 00:29:49,333

stoicism as a mentality.

721

00:29:50,125 --> 00:29:52,375

And then lastly, as you mentioned, your

722

00:29:52,375 --> 00:29:57,791

tribe, which is a hallmark of people that

723

00:29:57,791 --> 00:30:01,708

are plugged in, that are doing their best

724

00:30:01,708 --> 00:30:04,291

with their ikigai or ubuntu, as you

725

00:30:04,291 --> 00:30:05,250

mentioned, are terms.

726

00:30:06,291 --> 00:30:08,000

Certainly, all the blue zones talk about

727

00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:10,125

being plugged in, having purpose and

728

00:30:10,125 --> 00:30:13,041

passion and community and support.

729

00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,250

And we see the number one

730

00:30:15,291 --> 00:30:17,083

killer really is loneliness.

731

00:30:18,500 --> 00:30:21,416

And so absolutely community is huge.

732

00:30:21,750 --> 00:30:23,625

So I'm a fan of all of

733

00:30:23,625 --> 00:30:25,416

those basics, as you say.

734

00:30:25,416 --> 00:30:27,416

And then of course, I mentioned, because

735

00:30:27,416 --> 00:30:28,750

I'm the supplement guy, I mentioned

736

00:30:28,750 --> 00:30:30,625

supplement stacks in each chapter.

737

00:30:31,083 --> 00:30:34,166

And do I think that supplements may be

738

00:30:34,166 --> 00:30:35,958

over relied upon even

739

00:30:35,958 --> 00:30:37,041

as a supplement guy?

740

00:30:37,375 --> 00:30:38,333

Yes, I do.

741

00:30:38,583 --> 00:30:42,291

I do think that there's no magic bullets.

742

00:30:42,625 --> 00:30:45,666

I do think if you're getting three hours

743

00:30:45,666 --> 00:30:46,958

of sleep, but relying on

744

00:30:46,958 --> 00:30:49,000

supplements for anti aging,

745

00:30:50,208 --> 00:30:52,708

that is a very skewed mindset.

746

00:30:52,708 --> 00:30:55,333

If you're getting drunk every night, but

747

00:30:55,333 --> 00:30:59,125

taking exogenous ketones and creatine,

748

00:30:59,375 --> 00:31:00,541

like that doesn't make sense.

749

00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:04,916

Those things can have value, even if

750

00:31:04,916 --> 00:31:06,958

you're doing a lot of these things wrong.

751

00:31:06,958 --> 00:31:09,500

I'm not saying they don't have potential

752

00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:12,125

value to at least mitigate some of the

753

00:31:12,125 --> 00:31:14,750

damage you're doing, but it would make

754

00:31:14,750 --> 00:31:17,958

more sense to reduce the damage you're

755

00:31:17,958 --> 00:31:20,708

doing and live a life that's conducive to

756

00:31:20,708 --> 00:31:23,583

greater longevity, health and well-being.

757

00:31:25,041 --> 00:31:26,541

Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more.

758

00:31:26,541 --> 00:31:29,083

And I mean, just working in a supplement

759

00:31:29,083 --> 00:31:32,375

company myself, I get involved in a bit

760

00:31:32,375 --> 00:31:34,000

of customer service.

761

00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:36,666

And yeah, you often have to counsel

762

00:31:36,666 --> 00:31:40,791

customers on whether and they'll come to

763

00:31:40,791 --> 00:31:44,750

you and say, well, I want to enhance my

764

00:31:44,750 --> 00:31:46,125

health band more longevity.

765

00:31:46,583 --> 00:31:47,750

Is NMN going to do it?

766

00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:49,250

And you just take them

767

00:31:49,250 --> 00:31:51,083

through this very quick process.

768

00:31:51,416 --> 00:31:53,666

Well, are you eating a whole foods diet?

769

00:31:54,333 --> 00:31:56,666

Because I promise you, if you're trying

770

00:31:56,666 --> 00:31:59,708

to feel better by taking NMN, it may or

771

00:31:59,708 --> 00:32:02,041

may not do anything, depending on a whole

772

00:32:02,041 --> 00:32:03,125

bunch of other variables.

773

00:32:03,125 --> 00:32:06,500

But if you are eating the standard

774

00:32:06,500 --> 00:32:10,541

Western diet, because it's not American

775

00:32:10,541 --> 00:32:11,666

or Swiss, let's be honest,

776

00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:15,625

it's not going to help in the slightest.

777

00:32:16,958 --> 00:32:18,916

And yeah, again, everything you've just

778

00:32:18,916 --> 00:32:20,875

said, you have to get those basics into

779

00:32:20,875 --> 00:32:25,875

place before going down the rabbit hole.

780

00:32:26,291 --> 00:32:26,916

Well, let me take that

781

00:32:26,916 --> 00:32:28,083

one step further, Rob.

782

00:32:28,083 --> 00:32:29,125

And this is something I've been

783

00:32:29,125 --> 00:32:30,875

exploring, whether we're talking about

784

00:32:30,875 --> 00:32:33,333

supplements or psychedelics or basically

785

00:32:33,333 --> 00:32:35,666

any intervention that's

786

00:32:35,666 --> 00:32:37,416

healthy and beneficial for you.

787

00:32:37,958 --> 00:32:39,541

If your nervous system,

788

00:32:40,125 --> 00:32:41,125

which a friend of mine,

789

00:32:42,250 --> 00:32:42,458

Dr.

790

00:32:42,750 --> 00:32:44,375

Steven Young likes to say electrical

791

00:32:44,375 --> 00:32:46,000

system because the NLP

792

00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,916

aspects of saying nervous system.

793

00:32:49,000 --> 00:32:51,708

But if your electrical system or your

794

00:32:51,708 --> 00:32:56,291

nervous system is constantly in fight or

795

00:32:56,291 --> 00:32:57,416

flight, is you're

796

00:32:57,416 --> 00:32:59,333

constantly in sympathetic.

797

00:32:59,833 --> 00:33:01,333

If you are rarely getting into

798

00:33:01,333 --> 00:33:04,125

parasympathetic rest and digest, you're

799

00:33:04,125 --> 00:33:05,916

rarely getting the

800

00:33:05,916 --> 00:33:07,791

vagal tone that you need.

801

00:33:08,708 --> 00:33:13,083

Then you are not in a space to utilize,

802

00:33:13,083 --> 00:33:19,750

to absorb, to store, to ideally use these

803

00:33:19,750 --> 00:33:21,625

nutrients that you're taking, and be it

804

00:33:21,625 --> 00:33:24,000

from food, be it from supplements, be it

805

00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,375

from antigens or whatnot.

806

00:33:27,041 --> 00:33:29,791

This is the problem because

807

00:33:29,791 --> 00:33:32,541

you are not in that space.

808

00:33:33,625 --> 00:33:36,666

And so many of us are taking 100

809

00:33:36,666 --> 00:33:38,875

supplements because we feel tired, we

810

00:33:38,875 --> 00:33:42,875

feel exhausted, we feel overwhelmed, and

811

00:33:42,875 --> 00:33:44,250

you're not in a space to

812

00:33:44,250 --> 00:33:46,208

properly utilize these things.

813

00:33:47,208 --> 00:33:50,541

So finding ways to get yourself into

814

00:33:50,541 --> 00:33:52,458

parasympathetic nervous system.

815

00:33:53,083 --> 00:33:55,791

Why do you think that it's been a

816

00:33:55,791 --> 00:33:59,083

psychosomatic anchor basis for when we

817

00:33:59,083 --> 00:34:03,583

eat to families pray or meditate or take

818

00:34:03,583 --> 00:34:04,916

a minute before they eat?

819

00:34:05,291 --> 00:34:08,333

They're dropping into parasympathetic and

820

00:34:08,333 --> 00:34:09,875

then they're giving themselves the

821

00:34:09,875 --> 00:34:13,375

placebo effect or whatever way you want

822

00:34:13,375 --> 00:34:17,541

to say that of thank you for this food

823

00:34:17,541 --> 00:34:19,208

we're about to receive for the

824

00:34:19,208 --> 00:34:20,916

nourishment of my body.

825

00:34:21,666 --> 00:34:22,416

What do you think that

826

00:34:22,416 --> 00:34:23,541

affirmation is doing?

827

00:34:24,125 --> 00:34:26,000

It's putting you in a space where now

828

00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:27,291

you're going to utilize

829

00:34:27,291 --> 00:34:28,583

these nutrients better.

830

00:34:29,208 --> 00:34:31,000

Your nervous system is in a

831

00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:32,500

completely different state.

832

00:34:33,625 --> 00:34:34,750

And why do you think they call

833

00:34:34,750 --> 00:34:37,916

parasympathetic rest and digest and they

834

00:34:37,916 --> 00:34:40,083

call sympathetic fight flight or freeze?

835

00:34:41,166 --> 00:34:43,541

There's no resting, there's no digesting

836

00:34:43,541 --> 00:34:44,958

happening and sympathetic.

837

00:34:46,166 --> 00:34:47,208

So think about that.

838

00:34:47,458 --> 00:34:49,708

If you're not in parasympathetic when

839

00:34:49,708 --> 00:34:51,041

you're taking your supplements, when

840

00:34:51,041 --> 00:34:52,166

you're eating your food,

841

00:34:52,666 --> 00:34:55,208

you're not using it ideally.

842

00:34:55,625 --> 00:34:58,083

And then take that one step further, even

843

00:34:58,083 --> 00:34:59,916

the healthiest food that we're having.

844

00:35:00,541 --> 00:35:02,375

But if we're training our bodies for

845

00:35:02,375 --> 00:35:04,250

whenever we're having this healthy food

846

00:35:04,250 --> 00:35:07,208

that we're stressed or under attack,

847

00:35:07,208 --> 00:35:09,458

let's say we're only eating when we're

848

00:35:09,458 --> 00:35:11,750

driving our car, when we're at work and

849

00:35:11,750 --> 00:35:12,750

we're under heavy stress.

850

00:35:13,250 --> 00:35:16,833

Now the body will shortcut and create

851

00:35:16,833 --> 00:35:19,500

that neural wiring to say whenever you

852

00:35:19,500 --> 00:35:21,958

eat, this means you're under stress.

853

00:35:22,500 --> 00:35:23,416

Therefore, when you

854

00:35:23,416 --> 00:35:25,208

eat, it creates stress.

855

00:35:26,291 --> 00:35:28,583

It's almost like a form of NLP, isn't it?

856

00:35:28,583 --> 00:35:31,416

You are teaching your body to associate

857

00:35:31,416 --> 00:35:34,083

an action with another action and then

858

00:35:34,083 --> 00:35:35,833

that negatively has a downstream

859

00:35:35,833 --> 00:35:38,166

consequence in the eating.

860

00:35:38,458 --> 00:35:41,083

So I would assume that would be a perfect

861

00:35:41,083 --> 00:35:42,125

example of how you drive

862

00:35:42,125 --> 00:35:43,250

something like leaky gut.

863

00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:45,125

If you've got a digestive system that's

864

00:35:45,125 --> 00:35:46,666

compromised due to the high levels of

865

00:35:46,666 --> 00:35:47,458

stress, you're not going to

866

00:35:47,458 --> 00:35:48,583

digest that food properly.

867

00:35:49,083 --> 00:35:50,333

You're going to break down that

868

00:35:50,333 --> 00:35:52,083

epithelial lining in your gut and then

869

00:35:52,083 --> 00:35:54,166

you go into the ingress of

870

00:35:54,166 --> 00:35:56,541

LPS and what was your alcohol

871

00:35:57,833 --> 00:36:00,750

dysfunctional physiology thereafter.

872

00:36:01,916 --> 00:36:03,541

So yeah, I think that's amazing.

873

00:36:03,791 --> 00:36:04,333

And I just

874

00:36:06,000 --> 00:36:06,958

I mean, you just touched on

875

00:36:06,958 --> 00:36:07,958

so many good points there.

876

00:36:07,958 --> 00:36:09,625

Like I sort of briefly mentioned offline,

877

00:36:09,625 --> 00:36:11,291

I'm working through some of my own CFS

878

00:36:11,291 --> 00:36:13,875

types of issues and for ages I've been

879

00:36:13,875 --> 00:36:16,291

sort of trying to sort of piece together,

880

00:36:16,291 --> 00:36:17,416

excuse me, this sort of functional

881

00:36:17,416 --> 00:36:18,208

medicine model and

882

00:36:18,208 --> 00:36:20,083

depending on who you go to,

883

00:36:21,166 --> 00:36:22,875

there are so many practitioners who will

884

00:36:22,875 --> 00:36:24,916

sort of start off with the gut, start off

885

00:36:24,916 --> 00:36:26,291

with assos in your hormone,

886

00:36:26,541 --> 00:36:29,541

start off detoxifying you.

887

00:36:29,791 --> 00:36:32,375

But I do believe and just sort of, I've

888

00:36:32,416 --> 00:36:35,125

recently been, I've had the privilege of

889

00:36:35,125 --> 00:36:37,375

working with a gentleman called Justin

890

00:36:37,375 --> 00:36:39,083

McGuire who's phenomenal.

891

00:36:39,833 --> 00:36:40,416

One day I'll be able to

892

00:36:40,416 --> 00:36:42,208

say that word correctly.

893

00:36:43,208 --> 00:36:45,500

He's a big proponent of psilocybin.

894

00:36:46,541 --> 00:36:47,916

I actually have to introduce the term.

895

00:36:48,291 --> 00:36:51,500

But anyway, just working with him and

896

00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:56,375

realizing that if you take a CNS sort of

897

00:36:56,375 --> 00:36:59,666

centric focus on healing the body,

898

00:36:59,916 --> 00:37:02,000

whether that's through a psilocybin

899

00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:05,375

communities, vagal nerve, stimulators,

900

00:37:07,208 --> 00:37:10,416

breath work, as Dallic Anglian blogs all

901

00:37:10,416 --> 00:37:13,333

of the above, I think as an individual,

902

00:37:13,333 --> 00:37:16,208

you are just priming your body to then

903

00:37:16,208 --> 00:37:18,958

actually make the most of the the

904

00:37:18,958 --> 00:37:24,458

modalities that you're then going to use

905

00:37:24,458 --> 00:37:25,666

to actually try and heal

906

00:37:25,666 --> 00:37:26,750

the underlying dysfunction.

907

00:37:27,625 --> 00:37:30,541

And that's, yeah, so thank you for that.

908

00:37:30,541 --> 00:37:32,833

That was just an amazing add-on and

909

00:37:32,833 --> 00:37:33,750

something that I would have

910

00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:34,916

never thought to have included.

911

00:37:35,375 --> 00:37:37,375

So yeah.

912

00:37:38,875 --> 00:37:41,208

Okay, so obviously that all being said,

913

00:37:41,833 --> 00:37:43,375

we are supplement guys.

914

00:37:45,333 --> 00:37:47,041

And at the end of the day, I went just

915

00:37:47,041 --> 00:37:47,708

going back to the

916

00:37:47,708 --> 00:37:49,000

longevity side of things.

917

00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,333

I do think when looking at longevity and

918

00:37:52,333 --> 00:37:55,666

trying to optimize for longevity, two of

919

00:37:55,666 --> 00:37:59,041

the variables that one might look to as

920

00:37:59,041 --> 00:38:00,041

being the most important,

921

00:38:01,958 --> 00:38:04,083

at least physiologically are arguably

922

00:38:04,083 --> 00:38:06,125

glycemic variability, so blood sugar

923

00:38:06,125 --> 00:38:07,666

control and then inflammation.

924

00:38:09,291 --> 00:38:12,875

Now, I don't know if you agree or not,

925

00:38:12,875 --> 00:38:15,458

but I think that would be a pretty good

926

00:38:15,458 --> 00:38:16,916

place to start to then maybe

927

00:38:16,916 --> 00:38:18,083

get into the supplement side.

928

00:38:18,375 --> 00:38:20,750

But yeah, just from a physiological

929

00:38:20,750 --> 00:38:25,000

standpoint, could you talk us through why

930

00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:27,958

maybe having dysregulated blood sugar and

931

00:38:27,958 --> 00:38:28,583

high levels of

932

00:38:28,583 --> 00:38:29,875

inflammation is such a problem?

933

00:38:30,333 --> 00:38:32,083

Obviously, there's the AGE side

934

00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:35,000

of things and all of that.

935

00:38:36,375 --> 00:38:36,958

Yes, exactly.

936

00:38:37,250 --> 00:38:38,166

Advanced glycation end

937

00:38:38,166 --> 00:38:42,000

products are aptly named as AGEs.

938

00:38:43,041 --> 00:38:46,375

And for most, glycation is causing

939

00:38:46,375 --> 00:38:48,625

significant damage as a result.

940

00:38:49,208 --> 00:38:52,291

And when you look at glycation, that

941

00:38:52,291 --> 00:38:54,000

blood sugar damage, you also see

942

00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,041

increased inflammation,

943

00:38:55,416 --> 00:38:57,166

oxidation, dyslipidemia.

944

00:38:58,166 --> 00:39:02,416

Most disease, almost all disease is

945

00:39:02,416 --> 00:39:03,708

metabolic in nature.

946

00:39:04,583 --> 00:39:06,750

And therefore, at the root of this, we

947

00:39:06,750 --> 00:39:10,791

can find metabolic dysfunction via high

948

00:39:10,791 --> 00:39:13,458

blood glucose and insulin, and then

949

00:39:13,458 --> 00:39:15,291

ultimately, mitochondrial dysfunction

950

00:39:15,291 --> 00:39:21,541

with impaired energy output and the

951

00:39:21,541 --> 00:39:23,583

mitochondria not having enough in number

952

00:39:23,583 --> 00:39:24,541

and not functioning

953

00:39:24,541 --> 00:39:25,833

as well as they could.

954

00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,375

So having something like dihydroverberine

955

00:39:31,125 --> 00:39:34,500

is going to address almost all of that,

956

00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,625

which makes it profound.

957

00:39:36,625 --> 00:39:38,916

That's why when we look at, there's

958

00:39:38,916 --> 00:39:42,791

massive studies on metformin going on

959

00:39:42,791 --> 00:39:44,958

right now with the government's funding

960

00:39:44,958 --> 00:39:47,083

studies of like 20,000 people.

961

00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,750

There is huge studies.

962

00:39:50,416 --> 00:39:53,916

And those are both AMP-K activators.

963

00:39:54,958 --> 00:39:57,083

They both work on this blood sugar

964

00:39:57,083 --> 00:40:00,208

glycation pathway, anti-glycation.

965

00:40:01,041 --> 00:40:02,458

They both help with

966

00:40:03,666 --> 00:40:06,666

reducing the effect of viruses, reducing

967

00:40:06,666 --> 00:40:07,333

inflammation,

968

00:40:07,666 --> 00:40:09,333

improving dyslipidemia, etc.

969

00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:12,333

What I found with berberine, and even

970

00:40:12,333 --> 00:40:13,166

when you look up things

971

00:40:13,166 --> 00:40:14,541

like metformin, you see

972

00:40:15,833 --> 00:40:18,916

GI distress, you see a

973

00:40:18,916 --> 00:40:20,041

number of side effects.

974

00:40:20,541 --> 00:40:23,416

You don't see with dihydroverberine.

975

00:40:23,416 --> 00:40:26,500

The doses are so much lower with

976

00:40:26,500 --> 00:40:30,708

dihydroverberine than berberine because

977

00:40:30,708 --> 00:40:33,500

it has greater bioavailability, about

978

00:40:33,500 --> 00:40:35,916

five times as much bioavailability, and

979

00:40:35,916 --> 00:40:37,875

it lasts about twice as long in plasma.

980

00:40:38,208 --> 00:40:41,125

So you only need to take a small dose

981

00:40:41,125 --> 00:40:42,666

twice a day versus a

982

00:40:42,666 --> 00:40:44,458

large dose three times a day.

983

00:40:44,458 --> 00:40:46,333

You have less of that GI distress and

984

00:40:46,333 --> 00:40:47,708

just a greater efficacy.

985

00:40:48,458 --> 00:40:53,875

We also see that it increases GLP1 pretty

986

00:40:53,875 --> 00:40:55,083

dramatically as well.

987

00:40:55,083 --> 00:40:55,833

So it's really exciting.

988

00:40:57,333 --> 00:40:59,000

It's a fascinating compound.

989

00:41:00,458 --> 00:41:02,458

Could you break down what exactly it is?

990

00:41:02,958 --> 00:41:05,291

The difference between berberine and

991

00:41:05,291 --> 00:41:07,166

dihydroverberine is

992

00:41:07,166 --> 00:41:11,458

obviously dihydroverberine.

993

00:41:11,458 --> 00:41:12,875

I think is your product luke

994

00:41:12,875 --> 00:41:14,000

advantage, is that correct?

995

00:41:14,625 --> 00:41:15,041

Correct.

996

00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,041

Yeah, it's starting to pop up more, but

997

00:41:18,041 --> 00:41:20,000

just from a sort of a molecular

998

00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:21,208

standpoint, what is the difference

999

00:41:21,208 --> 00:41:22,291

between these two compounds?

00:41:23,375 --> 00:41:25,833

Yes, so berberine, when it's metabolized

00:41:27,125 --> 00:41:31,750

in the body at the gut level, is

00:41:31,750 --> 00:41:33,791

converted into dihydroverberine.

00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,500

And then at plasma level, which means in

00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:37,500

the blood, is converted

00:41:37,500 --> 00:41:39,708

back to berberine again.

00:41:40,541 --> 00:41:43,000

So what we're seeing is that there's a

00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:46,625

lot of bio individuality, meaning we all

00:41:46,625 --> 00:41:48,416

kind of experience it different.

00:41:48,416 --> 00:41:50,041

We all metabolize it a little different

00:41:50,041 --> 00:41:51,541

based on our gut microbiome.

00:41:52,875 --> 00:41:54,125

And we're taking that

00:41:54,125 --> 00:41:55,750

part out of the equation.

00:41:56,041 --> 00:41:57,791

So we're removing the bio individuality

00:41:57,791 --> 00:42:00,541

that it only works well for about 60% of

00:42:00,541 --> 00:42:02,708

people when it comes to berberine.

00:42:03,291 --> 00:42:07,416

That's a large portion consider a GI

00:42:07,416 --> 00:42:09,250

distress, a big side effect.

00:42:10,291 --> 00:42:12,791

And so you're removing those pieces by

00:42:12,791 --> 00:42:16,083

going directly to the metabolite that is

00:42:16,083 --> 00:42:19,583

just cleanly going to work at the gut

00:42:19,583 --> 00:42:22,625

level, and then be converted back to

00:42:22,625 --> 00:42:25,125

berberine more effectively at plasma.

00:42:25,416 --> 00:42:29,458

And again, lasting much longer in plasma

00:42:29,458 --> 00:42:31,666

than standard berberine would as well.

00:42:31,875 --> 00:42:33,250

So it's very interesting.

00:42:33,500 --> 00:42:35,083

We thought it would be better, but now

00:42:35,083 --> 00:42:37,833

we've seen it just be night and day

00:42:37,833 --> 00:42:38,958

dramatically better

00:42:38,958 --> 00:42:40,083

than standard berberine.

00:42:40,916 --> 00:42:41,125

Yeah.

00:42:41,250 --> 00:42:43,375

And you've actually conducted trials, I

00:42:43,375 --> 00:42:44,625

believe, where you've compared it

00:42:44,625 --> 00:42:45,916

directly against metformin.

00:42:45,916 --> 00:42:46,375

Is that correct?

00:42:47,041 --> 00:42:48,166

Not metformin.

00:42:48,166 --> 00:42:50,458

There is a study that compares berberine

00:42:50,458 --> 00:42:52,625

to metformin, and berberine is superior.

00:42:53,083 --> 00:42:56,833

And clearly, we've compared berberine and

00:42:56,833 --> 00:42:58,708

dihydroverberine in studies

00:42:58,708 --> 00:43:00,791

with PK, pharmacokinetics.

00:43:01,375 --> 00:43:01,583

Yeah.

00:43:02,500 --> 00:43:05,416

And so I guess you could extrapolate

00:43:05,416 --> 00:43:08,875

that, but it certainly is

00:43:08,875 --> 00:43:10,208

far superior to berberine.

00:43:10,875 --> 00:43:11,250

Brilliant.

00:43:11,958 --> 00:43:14,458

Well, yeah, I definitely agree.

00:43:14,750 --> 00:43:16,541

And just on the gut side of things,

00:43:16,541 --> 00:43:19,916

obviously, berberine is an antimicrobial

00:43:19,916 --> 00:43:23,333

compound, and it's often used in cases

00:43:23,333 --> 00:43:25,750

of, well, in various GI issues, things

00:43:25,750 --> 00:43:28,375

like various forms of SIBA, for example.

00:43:29,916 --> 00:43:31,500

You alluded to this earlier when you said

00:43:31,500 --> 00:43:33,791

the absolute dose due to its sort of high

00:43:33,791 --> 00:43:35,500

bioavailability is lower.

00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,500

But with long-term use, is there still

00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:40,875

likely to be the potential for any GI

00:43:40,875 --> 00:43:43,708

issues, or is that not as much of a thing

00:43:43,708 --> 00:43:44,458

to worry about, perhaps?

00:43:44,875 --> 00:43:46,625

With berberine, it's

00:43:46,625 --> 00:43:48,208

very-- Well, dihydroverberine.

00:43:49,208 --> 00:43:52,750

Okay, with dihydroverberine, we have not

00:43:52,750 --> 00:43:56,333

seen any negative impact in terms of GI

00:43:56,333 --> 00:43:59,083

distress, short-term or long-term.

00:43:59,791 --> 00:44:02,458

With berberine, it's very difficult to

00:44:02,458 --> 00:44:05,000

say, as you said, sometimes it can remedy

00:44:05,000 --> 00:44:10,416

GI dysfunction and dysbiosis, but then in

00:44:10,416 --> 00:44:13,166

other cases, it seems to exacerbate it.

00:44:13,166 --> 00:44:16,250

So this is where it's very confusing, and

00:44:16,250 --> 00:44:17,708

we don't know all the

00:44:17,708 --> 00:44:19,375

reasons why quite yet.

00:44:20,125 --> 00:44:20,458

Fair enough.

00:44:21,666 --> 00:44:23,250

Yeah, it's definitely an exciting

00:44:23,250 --> 00:44:24,458

molecule, to be honest.

00:44:24,708 --> 00:44:26,708

I think most of these hydrogenated

00:44:26,708 --> 00:44:29,750

derivatives on the market, interesting,

00:44:29,958 --> 00:44:32,250

you've got dihydroquacetin,

00:44:33,541 --> 00:44:36,500

another one, what's dihydromercetin,

00:44:37,166 --> 00:44:38,250

there are a bunch there

00:44:38,250 --> 00:44:40,208

that just show so much promise.

00:44:40,708 --> 00:44:46,416

Okay, let's move on to omega-3s, which I

00:44:46,416 --> 00:44:47,333

know you have something

00:44:47,333 --> 00:44:50,875

that you love as well.

00:44:51,791 --> 00:44:54,000

Why are you especially partial to these,

00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:55,375

and do you have any preference

00:44:55,375 --> 00:44:57,625

for DHA or EPM in particular?

00:44:58,208 --> 00:44:59,416

That's an interesting one.

00:45:00,125 --> 00:45:02,416

People will say they're more

00:45:02,416 --> 00:45:04,000

of a fan of one or the other.

00:45:04,083 --> 00:45:08,750

I probably lean in terms of

00:45:08,750 --> 00:45:13,250

cardiovascular function, EPA and DHA in

00:45:13,250 --> 00:45:15,791

terms of brain function and brain health,

00:45:16,083 --> 00:45:18,375

and most people talk about

00:45:18,375 --> 00:45:21,750

getting a rich source in both.

00:45:23,125 --> 00:45:25,875

I think as long as the concentration of

00:45:25,875 --> 00:45:29,375

omega-3s is high, then that would be

00:45:29,375 --> 00:45:30,958

ideal, and I like the

00:45:30,958 --> 00:45:34,250

triglyceride form in particular.

00:45:36,750 --> 00:45:38,750

For me, I think just as long as the

00:45:38,750 --> 00:45:40,833

concentration is high, because it starts

00:45:40,833 --> 00:45:43,000

getting difficult to get enough of the

00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,625

omega-3 fatty acids, in particular your

00:45:46,625 --> 00:45:49,500

EPA, DHA, with some of the lower

00:45:49,500 --> 00:45:51,375

concentration ones, you're going to be

00:45:51,375 --> 00:45:55,291

taking 8 to 10 grams a day,

00:45:55,291 --> 00:45:58,041

and that is too much fish oil.

00:45:58,916 --> 00:46:01,458

For me, I would rather take a couple

00:46:01,458 --> 00:46:03,833

grams of a highly concentrated,

00:46:03,833 --> 00:46:07,875

molecularly distilled version that has

00:46:07,875 --> 00:46:10,500

IFOS certification, IFOS.

00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:12,666

That's something to look for when you're

00:46:12,666 --> 00:46:14,708

getting your fish oils.

00:46:15,958 --> 00:46:18,041

I couldn't agree more.

00:46:18,875 --> 00:46:20,916

I think one of the biggest challenges in

00:46:20,916 --> 00:46:24,125

the industry regarding fish oils is just

00:46:24,125 --> 00:46:25,416

this issue with oxidation.

00:46:25,916 --> 00:46:28,708

We just pulled our omega-3 product off

00:46:28,708 --> 00:46:29,583

because it failed its

00:46:29,583 --> 00:46:30,791

second oxidation test.

00:46:31,166 --> 00:46:32,916

It was from a major, well-respected

00:46:32,916 --> 00:46:34,416

supplier with a

00:46:34,416 --> 00:46:35,958

two-year promised shelf life.

00:46:35,958 --> 00:46:37,041

It was produced probably

00:46:37,041 --> 00:46:39,291

under a blanket of argon gas.

00:46:40,666 --> 00:46:45,000

It first tested, sailed through, TOTOCS

00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:48,375

value was fine, adhesitine rate, excuse

00:46:48,375 --> 00:46:52,875

me, I'm not even going

00:46:52,875 --> 00:46:53,708

to try and say that again.

00:46:53,916 --> 00:46:56,500

TOTOCS value was fine, and it passed, and

00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:59,583

then we did a second month follow-up, and

00:46:59,583 --> 00:47:00,750

it failed completely.

00:47:02,166 --> 00:47:05,708

Sometimes I just think, personally, it's

00:47:05,708 --> 00:47:08,041

probably just better to eat a lower

00:47:08,041 --> 00:47:11,708

omega-6 diet and then just get your

00:47:11,708 --> 00:47:14,666

omega-3s from natural sources.

00:47:15,916 --> 00:47:18,666

I suppose that's also what companies like

00:47:18,666 --> 00:47:20,166

Consumer Lab are really doing.

00:47:21,041 --> 00:47:23,208

What was the certification you mentioned?

00:47:23,583 --> 00:47:23,958

IFOS?

00:47:23,958 --> 00:47:24,875

IFOS, yes.

00:47:25,250 --> 00:47:26,416

IFOS, that's the one

00:47:26,416 --> 00:47:27,250

you want to look for.

00:47:28,250 --> 00:47:29,791

We'll definitely check that out.

00:47:30,250 --> 00:47:34,416

They are definitely useful compounds in

00:47:34,416 --> 00:47:36,125

helping to lower inflammation.

00:47:38,166 --> 00:47:40,291

What do you think, I suppose,

00:47:41,833 --> 00:47:43,250

and maybe this is a bit

00:47:43,250 --> 00:47:44,916

of an offhand question,

00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:47,750

but what do you think about just

00:47:47,750 --> 00:47:49,833

bypassing omega-3s and going straight for

00:47:49,833 --> 00:47:52,541

specialized pro-resolving mediators?

00:47:53,333 --> 00:47:54,375

What you might call the

00:47:54,375 --> 00:47:55,958

active form of an omega-3?

00:47:56,375 --> 00:47:57,750

They're obviously a bit more expensive,

00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:59,916

but I feel for the right person, they're

00:47:59,916 --> 00:48:00,708

definitely worth it.

00:48:01,166 --> 00:48:03,791

I love these, and it's something that

00:48:03,791 --> 00:48:05,583

I've been exploring myself lately.

00:48:05,833 --> 00:48:07,000

I've been trying lately.

00:48:08,083 --> 00:48:11,208

I've been seeing incredible benefits from

00:48:11,208 --> 00:48:15,000

taking this and taking

00:48:15,000 --> 00:48:17,125

ivermectin, interestingly,

00:48:18,875 --> 00:48:21,166

just because I think there's all kinds of

00:48:21,166 --> 00:48:22,625

things that can just be lingering.

00:48:23,041 --> 00:48:28,291

Parasites, I love to have sushi.

00:48:28,750 --> 00:48:30,500

I love to have tartar.

00:48:31,041 --> 00:48:33,291

I love these kinds of raw things.

00:48:33,833 --> 00:48:34,625

I love the watercolor.

00:48:35,166 --> 00:48:37,791

Yes, and I'm getting exposed to things.

00:48:38,083 --> 00:48:40,208

I've been playing with both of those

00:48:40,208 --> 00:48:44,000

compounds lately, and I've seen in one or

00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:45,833

two weeks time my HRV doubled.

00:48:46,541 --> 00:48:48,208

I know they're having an impact.

00:48:48,791 --> 00:48:51,000

So it's been exciting

00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,625

to explore that lately.

00:48:54,333 --> 00:48:56,458

I am a big fan of SPMs.

00:48:56,791 --> 00:48:57,958

I want to dive into

00:48:57,958 --> 00:48:59,291

the research even more.

00:49:00,083 --> 00:49:02,500

That hasn't been something that I've

00:49:02,500 --> 00:49:04,208

explored deeply enough.

00:49:04,208 --> 00:49:06,166

There's been so many compounds I have,

00:49:06,166 --> 00:49:09,666

but I wanted to see just off the bat if

00:49:09,666 --> 00:49:10,458

it worked for me, and

00:49:10,458 --> 00:49:11,250

it definitely worked.

00:49:11,666 --> 00:49:13,583

So that is something I will

00:49:13,583 --> 00:49:14,958

be exploring more for sure.

00:49:15,666 --> 00:49:16,750

Yes, that's fascinating.

00:49:17,458 --> 00:49:19,458

Do you have any sort of baselines in

00:49:19,458 --> 00:49:21,125

terms of inflammation, perhaps, that

00:49:21,125 --> 00:49:23,000

you're going to test against, or are you

00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:24,416

just solely using HRV as

00:49:24,416 --> 00:49:25,291

a metric at this point?

00:49:25,916 --> 00:49:29,666

I didn't start it when I had just done

00:49:29,666 --> 00:49:34,208

blood work and looked at CRP, or if I was

00:49:34,208 --> 00:49:35,458

in the lab, looking at

00:49:35,458 --> 00:49:37,958

IL-6 and these other things.

00:49:38,833 --> 00:49:42,500

But certainly, just having the metric

00:49:42,500 --> 00:49:45,916

that I can look at day-to-day, HRV, it

00:49:45,916 --> 00:49:49,625

seemed dramatic where, again, that and

00:49:49,625 --> 00:49:52,333

ivermectin together were quite effective.

00:49:53,083 --> 00:49:54,166

Yes, that's awesome.

00:49:54,166 --> 00:49:55,250

I suppose for the audience, we should

00:49:55,250 --> 00:49:56,541

just clarify that specialized

00:49:56,541 --> 00:49:58,375

pro-resolving mediators are basically

00:49:58,375 --> 00:50:00,833

metabolite of Amiga-3s, and they include

00:50:00,833 --> 00:50:02,791

things like resolvins, protectins,

00:50:03,875 --> 00:50:04,875

merrisins, and

00:50:04,875 --> 00:50:07,708

lipo-pisins, I think they are.

00:50:08,166 --> 00:50:11,375

Anyway, they're converted from, as you

00:50:11,375 --> 00:50:13,500

know, shown from EPA and DHA, generally

00:50:13,500 --> 00:50:15,250

by things like lox enzymes,

00:50:16,875 --> 00:50:19,458

two and five, and maybe some

00:50:19,458 --> 00:50:20,458

others I'm not sure offhand.

00:50:21,958 --> 00:50:25,083

And generally, they are far more

00:50:25,083 --> 00:50:26,541

effectively utilized by the body, because

00:50:26,541 --> 00:50:28,541

when someone is in a high sort of state

00:50:28,541 --> 00:50:31,416

of inflammation, there is going to be

00:50:31,416 --> 00:50:35,333

less of a conversion of these Amiga-3s to

00:50:35,333 --> 00:50:37,416

these pro-resolving mediators, these

00:50:37,416 --> 00:50:38,333

active forms of the

00:50:38,333 --> 00:50:39,583

compound that you would then want.

00:50:39,791 --> 00:50:41,916

And then really, this is where the CEDAW

00:50:41,916 --> 00:50:43,708

crowd is going to go absolutely nuts,

00:50:43,708 --> 00:50:45,583

because you've got a whole bunch of

00:50:45,583 --> 00:50:47,958

polyunsaturated fats in a highly

00:50:47,958 --> 00:50:49,750

ox-dosen, in a highly inflammatory

00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:52,708

environment, causing all sorts of

00:50:52,708 --> 00:50:53,916

potentially distressed.

00:50:54,375 --> 00:50:56,666

So yeah, I think they're amazing.

00:50:56,666 --> 00:50:58,375

And in a nutshell, that's what they are.

00:50:59,041 --> 00:51:02,458

And anyway, I know we're

00:51:02,458 --> 00:51:05,041

starting to come up on time.

00:51:05,916 --> 00:51:07,666

So what I'd love to do is just chat to

00:51:07,666 --> 00:51:10,166

you quickly about ergotthionine.

00:51:11,500 --> 00:51:12,500

This isn't a compound

00:51:12,625 --> 00:51:14,291

I'm that familiar with.

00:51:14,708 --> 00:51:16,833

And I know that it's been investigated by

00:51:16,833 --> 00:51:18,958

the ITP, the intermittent testing program

00:51:18,958 --> 00:51:22,291

from a longevity perspective, and that is

00:51:22,291 --> 00:51:23,291

generally found in mushrooms,

00:51:23,791 --> 00:51:25,083

and it's called antioxidant.

00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:28,291

Could you sort of break down what this

00:51:28,291 --> 00:51:29,875

compound is and why

00:51:29,875 --> 00:51:31,750

you're excited about it?

00:51:32,500 --> 00:51:35,750

So the the ene part in ergotthionine

00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:37,583

means it's an amino acid.

00:51:37,583 --> 00:51:38,541

It's a trace amino

00:51:38,541 --> 00:51:40,125

acid, as you talked about.

00:51:40,125 --> 00:51:41,250

It does occur in

00:51:41,250 --> 00:51:42,916

mushrooms to a low degree.

00:51:43,750 --> 00:51:46,375

King oysters tend to be the highest in

00:51:46,375 --> 00:51:49,875

ergotthionine, but also it occurs in

00:51:49,875 --> 00:51:52,416

certain beings and then organ meats.

00:51:53,750 --> 00:51:55,916

What we've seen from ergotthionine, Dr.

00:51:56,166 --> 00:51:57,791

Bruce Ames, probably the most famous

00:51:57,791 --> 00:51:59,958

longevity researcher, Rhonda

00:51:59,958 --> 00:52:01,666

Patrick spun out of his lab.

00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:06,166

He looked at alpha lipoic acid and

00:52:06,166 --> 00:52:08,041

acetylalkarnitine and some of these

00:52:08,041 --> 00:52:10,416

compounds and made them quite popular.

00:52:11,666 --> 00:52:14,625

Amazing research on spin traps, which is

00:52:14,625 --> 00:52:16,250

I could go down a

00:52:16,250 --> 00:52:17,250

massive rabbit hole there.

00:52:18,333 --> 00:52:19,833

There's no real spin

00:52:19,833 --> 00:52:21,083

traps on the market yet.

00:52:22,083 --> 00:52:26,541

But ergotthionine, he called the

00:52:26,583 --> 00:52:28,250

longevity molecule or

00:52:28,250 --> 00:52:29,750

the longevity vitamin.

00:52:30,750 --> 00:52:34,083

It's a vitamin potentially because we

00:52:34,083 --> 00:52:37,458

actually see that there's a deficiency

00:52:37,458 --> 00:52:38,708

that's shown for it.

00:52:38,708 --> 00:52:40,250

You have cognitive decline

00:52:40,250 --> 00:52:42,625

without enough ergotthionine.

00:52:43,500 --> 00:52:45,666

We don't make ergotthionine.

00:52:45,666 --> 00:52:47,541

We have to get it from the diet.

00:52:49,041 --> 00:52:50,000

It's essential.

00:52:50,375 --> 00:52:54,166

So it's essential and the amount of

00:52:54,166 --> 00:52:56,375

research that's going on with

00:52:56,375 --> 00:52:59,000

ergotthionine, literally and without

00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:02,000

hyperbole, weekly, we're seeing full

00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:04,625

studies come out on ergotthionine from

00:53:04,625 --> 00:53:05,958

some of the best resources.

00:53:06,291 --> 00:53:07,916

So it's been very exciting, whether it's

00:53:07,916 --> 00:53:11,166

from the diet or from supplemental forms,

00:53:11,291 --> 00:53:13,333

and then the doses range quite a bit.

00:53:14,333 --> 00:53:17,500

But when we look at cultures that consume

00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:21,791

ergotthionine across the globe, there is

00:53:21,791 --> 00:53:25,416

a straight line correlation to longevity

00:53:25,416 --> 00:53:29,916

and lifespan and even health span to

00:53:29,916 --> 00:53:31,375

ergotthionine consumption.

00:53:32,375 --> 00:53:33,750

This is incredible.

00:53:34,041 --> 00:53:35,791

There's about a seven year difference

00:53:36,333 --> 00:53:38,791

between the lowest consumers and the

00:53:38,791 --> 00:53:40,750

highest consumers of ergotthionine.

00:53:41,083 --> 00:53:43,041

So this one's very impactful.

00:53:43,041 --> 00:53:45,041

This is just not like a cellular

00:53:45,041 --> 00:53:46,625

antioxidant, which we know

00:53:46,625 --> 00:53:48,250

data is fairly equilical on.

00:53:48,583 --> 00:53:51,833

This is a mitochondrial antioxidant,

00:53:51,833 --> 00:53:53,291

which is wholly different.

00:53:54,291 --> 00:53:56,000

We also see that it has a unique

00:53:56,000 --> 00:53:57,500

transporter that it's

00:53:57,500 --> 00:53:59,791

using in the body, the OCTN1,

00:54:01,041 --> 00:54:02,458

and then also a unique

00:54:02,458 --> 00:54:04,625

storage system for it in the body.

00:54:04,625 --> 00:54:07,583

So you are evolved to use this unique

00:54:07,583 --> 00:54:10,625

nutrient that is quite profound.

00:54:12,208 --> 00:54:14,333

So this is really exciting, especially

00:54:14,333 --> 00:54:16,000

for those of us that have battled

00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,833

mitochondrial dysfunction, which at this

00:54:18,833 --> 00:54:22,500

point in the US, metabolic

00:54:22,500 --> 00:54:25,500

dysfunctionality, which I would argue is

00:54:25,500 --> 00:54:28,416

fairly equivalent to mitochondrial

00:54:28,416 --> 00:54:33,416

dysfunction, is around 93%.

00:54:35,291 --> 00:54:37,125

Only 7% of the population

00:54:37,125 --> 00:54:39,625

is functioning optimally.

00:54:42,250 --> 00:54:45,083

And that said, this is also, I would

00:54:45,083 --> 00:54:46,583

argue, an essential nutrients.

00:54:47,166 --> 00:54:48,750

And I think we'll see that happen over

00:54:48,750 --> 00:54:51,875

the next 10 years that it will be called

00:54:51,875 --> 00:54:53,458

that and be putting multivitamins.

00:54:54,333 --> 00:54:56,625

This is one of those ones like creatine

00:54:56,625 --> 00:54:58,625

that you need to jump on

00:54:58,625 --> 00:55:00,875

for cellular energy ASAP.

00:55:01,708 --> 00:55:04,041

So ergotthionine, I think, should be

00:55:04,041 --> 00:55:07,791

foundational for everyone that is

00:55:07,791 --> 00:55:09,250

listening to this or watching this.

00:55:10,208 --> 00:55:11,375

Yeah, no, it's definitely

00:55:11,375 --> 00:55:12,333

an interesting compound.

00:55:12,916 --> 00:55:14,416

Do you have any feeling

00:55:14,416 --> 00:55:15,458

for the mechanism there?

00:55:15,666 --> 00:55:17,333

Is there sort of any part one activation

00:55:17,333 --> 00:55:19,166

or NRF2 activation going on?

00:55:20,375 --> 00:55:21,375

That's a great question.

00:55:22,125 --> 00:55:23,375

The data really isn't...

00:55:24,583 --> 00:55:26,125

We are definitely seeing

00:55:26,125 --> 00:55:27,583

it affect those pathways.

00:55:28,458 --> 00:55:29,375

How exactly it's

00:55:29,375 --> 00:55:31,416

affecting it is not clear yet.

00:55:31,416 --> 00:55:33,166

There needs to be even more research.

00:55:34,166 --> 00:55:37,208

But we do know that, as I stated, that

00:55:37,208 --> 00:55:39,500

we're evolved to use it and it is

00:55:39,500 --> 00:55:41,291

protecting the mitochondria.

00:55:43,416 --> 00:55:45,791

And what I see is that when I was taking

00:55:45,791 --> 00:55:48,375

it, these lower doses that were typical

00:55:48,375 --> 00:55:51,625

of diets, like taking one milligram, five

00:55:51,625 --> 00:55:53,625

milligrams, potentially 10 milligrams,

00:55:53,625 --> 00:55:55,500

which would be very high side of the

00:55:55,500 --> 00:55:57,166

highest diet consumers,

00:55:58,375 --> 00:56:00,666

I seem to get a positive effect.

00:56:01,041 --> 00:56:02,041

But I think it's more

00:56:02,083 --> 00:56:03,458

like a long-term effect.

00:56:04,458 --> 00:56:05,500

But much like creatine,

00:56:07,375 --> 00:56:09,333

if you kind of go with this loading

00:56:09,333 --> 00:56:11,416

aspect where I was taking

00:56:11,416 --> 00:56:14,125

25, 50, even 100 milligrams,

00:56:15,458 --> 00:56:18,916

it then became experiential where I was

00:56:18,916 --> 00:56:22,375

actually feeling a sense of more energy.

00:56:22,375 --> 00:56:24,625

And when I travel, especially across time

00:56:24,625 --> 00:56:27,583

zones, circadian rhythm can be impaired.

00:56:28,291 --> 00:56:30,583

I was noticing that I wasn't having the

00:56:30,583 --> 00:56:34,625

difficulty shifting my circadian rhythm

00:56:34,958 --> 00:56:36,208

and cellular energy.

00:56:37,333 --> 00:56:41,291

So this is one that I am excited about.

00:56:41,625 --> 00:56:42,458

And quite frankly,

00:56:44,000 --> 00:56:46,250

we've been playing with mixing it with

00:56:46,250 --> 00:56:47,250

that solidaricide

00:56:47,250 --> 00:56:48,833

that I was talking about.

00:56:48,833 --> 00:56:51,083

And so high dose solidaricide and high

00:56:51,083 --> 00:56:55,500

dose ergothione from me is truly like,

00:56:55,875 --> 00:56:56,833

you feel it, it's

00:56:56,833 --> 00:56:58,000

just truly experiential.

00:56:58,916 --> 00:56:59,500

Yeah, I'm going to put it

00:56:59,500 --> 00:57:00,875

into position at the Wells Lab.

00:57:00,875 --> 00:57:01,666

It sounds like you guys

00:57:01,666 --> 00:57:02,541

have a lot of fun there.

00:57:03,416 --> 00:57:06,458

It sounds like you're having a ball.

00:57:07,125 --> 00:57:09,833

No, it's a fascinating compound,

00:57:09,833 --> 00:57:11,000

something I've kind of

00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:12,000

got to brush up on a bit.

00:57:12,916 --> 00:57:15,833

I know I interviewed Dr.

00:57:16,083 --> 00:57:19,000

Greg Potrowar back on the podcast who is

00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:20,541

also very interested in it.

00:57:20,916 --> 00:57:21,750

And our project is

00:57:21,750 --> 00:57:23,166

Pickers Brain About It as well.

00:57:24,708 --> 00:57:25,708

Sean, you've been amazing.

00:57:26,291 --> 00:57:27,708

Before I let you go, though, would it be

00:57:27,708 --> 00:57:29,083

okay if we just run through

00:57:29,083 --> 00:57:31,500

a few rapid fire questions?

00:57:32,166 --> 00:57:32,916

Sure, let's do it.

00:57:33,375 --> 00:57:33,625

Brilliant.

00:57:33,875 --> 00:57:34,458

Thank you so much.

00:57:34,875 --> 00:57:35,583

What's the weirdest

00:57:35,583 --> 00:57:37,000

supplement combo you've ever tried?

00:57:37,041 --> 00:57:45,750

Butyrate plus anything.

00:57:46,416 --> 00:57:48,333

When I first started working with

00:57:48,333 --> 00:57:49,791

butyrate before we learned how to

00:57:49,791 --> 00:57:51,750

microencapsulate it before we put it into

00:57:51,750 --> 00:57:52,916

a triglyceride form,

00:57:54,208 --> 00:57:56,583

butyrate, which is a powerful short-chain

00:57:56,583 --> 00:58:00,791

fatty acid, is what smells like puke from

00:58:00,791 --> 00:58:04,375

your stomach or rancid milk or butter.

00:58:05,125 --> 00:58:08,000

So butyrate plus anything when I was

00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:10,708

starting to work with it was awful.

00:58:11,375 --> 00:58:11,625

Fair enough.

00:58:12,166 --> 00:58:13,791

If you could only take one supplement for

00:58:13,791 --> 00:58:14,958

the rest of your life, what would it be?

00:58:15,833 --> 00:58:16,333

Oh, boy.

00:58:18,166 --> 00:58:22,166

And this is a tie between dihydroberine,

00:58:22,166 --> 00:58:23,958

ergothionine, and solidricide.

00:58:24,958 --> 00:58:28,583

I would probably say ergothionine.

00:58:28,916 --> 00:58:29,291

It's fine.

00:58:29,291 --> 00:58:29,791

We can stick them

00:58:29,791 --> 00:58:30,750

into one kind of domain.

00:58:31,500 --> 00:58:31,708

Cool.

00:58:32,416 --> 00:58:33,083

What's the one health

00:58:33,083 --> 00:58:34,666

trend you think is total hype?

00:58:35,958 --> 00:58:37,083

Like total BS?

00:58:37,083 --> 00:58:37,666

Is that what you're saying?

00:58:37,958 --> 00:58:38,791

Yeah, pretty much.

00:58:38,791 --> 00:58:41,083

What's overrated currently anyway?

00:58:42,291 --> 00:58:43,166

Quantum anything.

00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:44,916

I just feel like any

00:58:44,916 --> 00:58:46,375

time I see the word quantum,

00:58:47,375 --> 00:58:49,541

I just know like this is just an

00:58:49,541 --> 00:58:53,291

unmeasurable, complete BS.

00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:55,750

Yeah, no, I'd have to

00:58:55,750 --> 00:58:56,625

agree with you there.

00:58:56,625 --> 00:58:59,000

I want to believe that there's something

00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:01,375

there, but yeah, when somebody says they

00:59:01,375 --> 00:59:03,583

can make you feel better by activating a

00:59:03,583 --> 00:59:05,916

program that then has some sort of effect

00:59:05,916 --> 00:59:08,166

in your house 10,000 kilometers away or

00:59:08,166 --> 00:59:10,208

miles away, it seems a bit far fetched.

00:59:11,958 --> 00:59:12,125

Cool.

00:59:13,083 --> 00:59:15,500

What's the next big supplement ingredient

00:59:15,500 --> 00:59:17,416

we'll all be talking about in 2026?

00:59:18,541 --> 00:59:21,333

Dilucine, an ingredient I worked on that

00:59:21,333 --> 00:59:23,833

radically increases muscle protein

00:59:23,833 --> 00:59:24,958

synthesis over its

00:59:24,958 --> 00:59:27,250

standard counterpart, leucine.

00:59:27,666 --> 00:59:29,375

You have no clue how long I've been

00:59:29,375 --> 00:59:30,333

trying to get hold of that.

00:59:31,416 --> 00:59:35,500

It is a game changer for muscle

00:59:35,500 --> 00:59:37,250

maintenance of muscle, repair

00:59:37,250 --> 00:59:39,166

of muscle, increased strength.

00:59:40,375 --> 00:59:42,916

When we look at longevity and health

00:59:42,916 --> 00:59:46,791

span, we see grip strength, we see muscle

00:59:46,791 --> 00:59:50,458

mass as a result, increased bone mass,

00:59:50,458 --> 00:59:53,541

all these kinds of things impacted by the

00:59:53,541 --> 00:59:57,750

way we can keep muscle protein synthesis

00:59:57,750 --> 00:59:59,583

and muscle protein breakdown

01:00:00,791 --> 01:00:01,458

optimized.

01:00:03,250 --> 01:00:06,291

Sean, that was a perfect answer in a

01:00:06,291 --> 01:00:07,500

little crawl because now I want to talk

01:00:07,500 --> 01:00:08,041

about the insulin

01:00:08,041 --> 01:00:09,500

genetic properties of dilucine.

01:00:09,500 --> 01:00:11,833

However, I know you've got

01:00:11,833 --> 01:00:15,000

to run, so thank you so much.

01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:16,125

You've been an absolute star.

01:00:17,166 --> 01:00:18,958

Where can people find you if they want to

01:00:18,958 --> 01:00:20,208

learn more about you connect with what

01:00:20,208 --> 01:00:21,583

you do and all that good stuff?

01:00:22,208 --> 01:00:23,750

Yeah, so at seanwells,

01:00:23,750 --> 01:00:28,666

s-h-a-w-n-w-e-l-l-s, s-h-a-w-n, so at

01:00:28,666 --> 01:00:33,041

seanwells or seanwells.com, there's a

01:00:33,041 --> 01:00:35,416

free newsletter that I go over studies

01:00:35,666 --> 01:00:38,041

and trends and supplement statics.

01:00:38,583 --> 01:00:40,041

My Instagram is great,

01:00:40,041 --> 01:00:42,416

infographics and free content.

01:00:42,416 --> 01:00:45,666

Everything's free with me unless you hire

01:00:45,666 --> 01:00:47,375

me to formulate supplements, so

01:00:47,375 --> 01:00:49,000

everything I give away for free.

01:00:49,208 --> 01:00:51,666

The book is reasonably cheap and we're

01:00:51,666 --> 01:00:56,458

coming out with a wet chorus for the

01:00:56,458 --> 01:00:58,250

energy formula as well that I'm really

01:00:58,250 --> 01:00:59,750

excited about later this month.

01:01:00,541 --> 01:01:02,791

That's awesome and we'll be sure to link

01:01:02,791 --> 01:01:04,000

all of that in the show notes.

01:01:04,708 --> 01:01:05,500

Sean, you've been a treasure.

01:01:05,791 --> 01:01:06,750

Thank you so much for your time.

01:01:07,500 --> 01:01:07,833

Thank you.

01:01:08,041 --> 01:01:08,541

See you.