This series deals with themes of violence, loss of life, grief, trauma, and mental health. The content may not be suitable for younger listeners.

Kia ora , I'm Mitchell Alexander.

And I'm Alex Mason. Welcome to Season One of Unclassified, a series where we bring you firsthand tales from those who served during New Zealand's 20 year deployment to Afghanistan.

Today, we're joined by Major Caleb Berry to hear about his experience as a junior commander, forced to step up in New Zealand's deadliest infantry battle since Vietnam, and how that has shaped his life ever since.

In 2012, then Lieutenant Caleb Berry deployed to Afghanistan as a patrol commander with the New Zealand provincial reconstruction team known as CRIB 20. During his deployment, he played a crucial role in what became known as the Battle of Baghak, which claimed the lives of two Kiwi soldiers and injured six others.

The battle began when the people standing on either side of Caleb were shot. His boss, the commanding officer was seriously injured, and Lance Corporal Rory Malone died from his injuries. In that moment, aged 25, Caleb had to step up into the role of commander, and for five hours, he led the battle, controlled coalition close air support and oversaw the extraction of casualties, both Kiwis and members of Afghan security forces.

Two weeks later, Caleb led the first patrol to the scene of an attack in which three of his fellow Kiwi soldiers had been killed by an IED, an improvised explosive device. Along with other commanders from within the contingent, he coordinated the recovery effort, which took more than 12 hours.

Caleb, thank you very much for joining us today.

You're welcome. Thanks for having me. It's an honour to be able to share my story and hopefully pass on some of my experiences.

In terms of that experience, can you turn your mind back to the moment when you were standing in the Shikari Valley in Afghanistan, next to your boss, and you heard the first crack of a gunshot fired in your direction? Can you describe that for us?

It was pretty surreal, to be honest, the first time that that happens to you, everyone reacts differently. Myself, I looked towards where it was coming from and saw my boss start to engage alongside Rory Malone. My boss was in shortly after that shot, and the open, he fell to the ground and Rory and I ran out and dragged him into cover. I started to treat him and applied a bandage to his wound, while Rory was providing covering fire. And I thought, yeah, this is the big show. This is everything that we've trained for, I'd been in the Army for about seven years at that stage. And it set in real quick.

What thoughts were running through your mind at that point?

Immediately it was to treat my boss and help him out and get him to cover, we were taking cover behind the Humvee and drag him into the back of the Humvee. And then to communicate higher what was happening, I kind of just went onto autopilot. All the training that you get drilled into you from basic training all the way through, your young officers training, it definitely helps. And a lot of this stuff kind of just happens without even having to think of it.

What happened next, Caleb?

So once I dragged the boss into the back of the Humvee, and Rory helped with his feet, Rory was also shot. And we pulled him into the front seat of the Humvee. I then communicated with Kiwi Base, what was happening, that were in contact, that we had take in multiple casualties, and that my intention was to get the casualties out of the immediate danger out of the contact zone and establish a casualty collection point to the South.

When did you realise that you were in command now?

That was a wee while later, so we moved to the casualty collection point. My boss took cover outside of the vehicle. And we had realised that by that stage Rory was critical, not responsive. I was communicating with Kiwi Base and sending the reports in return, so the set format for how many casualties we had, what their status was, and where I saw a helicopter landing zone to evacuate those casualties, the map grid reference for that. Concurrently, I was coordinating what was happening with the other casualties, which had been taken pretty much immediately after we took incoming fire from the east. And one of the other junior commanders who was actually up on the high ground to the east, as part of a dismounted patrol that went up to clear the enemy from the original contact site earlier in the day, where the Afghans had taken fire from, he jumped on the radio. And he firstly he asked me whether Oscar Charlie or the Officer Commanding, my boss, had been shot. And I said, "Yep", and "confirm that". And then they said, "Is that you bro?" As in, is that me in command? And I thought, "Well, yeah, I guess it is".

And what went through your mind at that moment?

So I thought, shit, okay. This is what we've trained for. There is a clear chain of command within all military units, specifically the Army for when something, someone, gets wounded or killed, the next person steps up. And although two other patrol commanders were the same rank as me, because of the fact I'd been at the contact site longer, and of my position at the time, I kind of just fell to me, albeit the other patrol commanders were fighting their own individual battles with their vehicles and their soldiers at the time, so I just started coordinating with them.

And in terms of them, could you sort of share with us how many personnel you were leading?

I was part of what was called Kiwi Company. So as part of the Provincial Reconstruction Team, we had four security patrols 1, 2, 3 and 4, and I was the patrol commander of Kiwi Team Two, I had three LAVs and my patrol I had about 15 soldiers, including the crew of the LAVs, a driver gunner, and a crew commander, and then some dismounts and a medic and the like. There was another patrol, which was the exact same as mine, Kiwi Team 1. And then there was the two Humvee mounted patrols. So all up, you're talking about 14 to 16 vehicles, and about 70 or 80 soldiers.

In terms of the battle itself, could you walk us through how fierce was and what happened?

The initial firefight that we were involved in, actually followed a contact earlier where the Afghans were ambushed on the way, that's the whole reason we were there, was responding to them being ambushed, some of them being wounded, and some of them being killed. When the firefight broke out, when we were there, I was obviously dismounted with the boss and Rory Malone. And an F18 team that was on station providing air cover to us, checked in with me, and did what's called a low show of force where they fly supersonic speed at about 300 feet above ground level, and pop flares. It's kind of the only thing you can do in order to influence the enemy without actually seeing the enemy and shooting them. When they did the last show of force that essentially kicked off the contact. So the enemy started shooting when that happened. It was madness for the first 10 or 15 minutes where everyone was trying to get their bearings where the enemy was, where the fire was coming from, where the casualties were, people were trying to save their mates' lives, but also suppress the enemy, get a beat on them and relay that information to everyone else so they could fire at any one point. And in the initial firefight, there would have been probably six or seven New Zealand Light Armoured Vehicle, LAVs, firing the main cannon and Humvees firing 50 cal and grenade machine guns as well.

What sort of terrain are you in at this point? Can you describe for us what you can see and how much visibility you actually have of the Taliban fighters that you're engaging with?

The best way to describe it in New Zealand is probably Central Otago, very rugged and mountainous. The road that we were on was essentially a cliff on one side and a riverbank on the other. And the enemy was on the other side of the river. And then up the cliffs on the other side, anywhere between 300 and 800 metres from where I was at the time. And in terms of locating and identifying the enemy it did become difficult. Firstly, because of the amount of outgoing rounds we were shooting kicked up a lot of dust and explosions and the like. And secondly, because it was August in Afghanistan, it gets very hot, like high 30s, low 40 degrees, and the sights that we have on the NZLAV have a thermal site. It can make it hard to pick up the thermal signature of a person or enemy. So we were using our day sight, so the easiest description of that is like looking through a rifle scope or binoculars to pick up with the enemy were. You've mentioned your training kicking into gear, this is what you're prepared for. But what is it actually like to be in the thick of fighting like that in terms of what happens to your senses? Everything gets heightened. Some senses, don't go away, but get depressed, like your sense of hunger or and the like, I don't think I ate the entire day, probably because I was too busy and worried about other things. But also the adrenaline kicks ,in your hearing and your sight, I felt kind of got honed, but that can also be a detriment because it focuses you in on one thing, and it means that you might miss things on your periphery.

Can you tell us about the moment when you realised that the battle was over, and you were back in safety?

That was right towards the end of the day. So there was so much that went on between the initial firefight where Rory Malone and Pralli Durrer were wounded and then subsequently killed, and eight others were wounded, including Afghans. We actually took two casualties up on the high ground as part of the dismounted patrol. And we got ordered by our higher headquarters, so not the PRT headquarters, but the American headquarters above them, to actually just disengage with the enemy and get out of there because we've taken so many casualties. But we couldn't do that. Because of the casualties that were wounded on the high ground, you can't just carry someone who's been shot down an almost sheer scree slope without just exposing those people to becoming more casualties. So we requested a specific type of casualty evacuation platform or capability, which is the US Air Force pararescue jumpers, the PJs, they operate very high spec Blackhawk helicopters with 50 calibre machine guns and mini guns on the doors. They are US Air Force Special Forces, and that's their role is to rescue casualties from under fire. So they flew in under fire, under the escort of a pair of Apache gunships, firing at the enemy, and winched a basket down just like you'd see a Westpac Rescue Helicopter went down and get someone but they did that under fire, and pulled out two casualties off the hill. Once those two casualties could get off the hill, and we extracted that dismounted patrol that had gone up. I then gave confirmatory orders for everyone who was there and we moved out and patrol back to Romero, our patrol base. We got escorted by US A10s the entire way out and when they checked off station, it was dark. And they let me know that they were going, and they actually popped their flares as they left and one of my soldiers commented that it was like our guardian angels were just leaving the way the flares looked at night

You lost a friend in that battle, as you've mentioned, Lance Corporal Pralli Durrer. How close were the two of you and when did it first hit you that he was gone?

Pralli was one of my commanders, under my command. I'd worked with him for probably about two years before I went to Afghan on and off. And then when they put our team together to go to Afghanistan, he was my Bravo callsign. So essentially my third in charge of my patrol. He was a bit of a cheeky follow. He got into a little bit of trouble every now and then. But he was the consummate professional, he loved what he did. And he was wounded and then subsequently died during the battle. I guess that hit me first when his vehicle turned up to the casualty collection point without a commander. So he was the commander of his vehicle and it drove in and his driver just drove in without the commander and I helped pull him out of the back of his vehicle, and I realised that his wounds were very critical. And I spoke to the medic who had taken command of the casualty collection point in terms of the treatment side of the house. I said "Mate, do whatever you can for this" and he said "I'll do my best". I was pretty pragmatic at the time like I didn't think that he would make it. I didn't actually find out he had died until we'd returned to Romero that night would have been probably close to midnight. The 2IC of the company came out and he said I might probably died on the chopper on the way back to Bagram and yeah, hit me like a train really. I knew that I had to then go out and tell my troops what had happened and I pulled them all on into the barbecue area that we had at Romero and I said "Look, Pralli didn't make it". And I broke down because I think like, for obvious reasons, it was an emotional time. But it was also the come down off the adrenaline like, I'd been going on fumes pretty much since 9am that morning and yeah it just hit me. We then knew that, okay, I had to get someone else and to do his job and had to give him his vehicle and the like.

Making that sort of transition, someone else taking his place effectively, what impacted the loss of Pralli have on you and your comrades?

He left a big hole on the in the troop or the patrol. Like I said he was a character, he was larger than life. He always had an opinion about things, and we held a small memorial service I think the day after, or a couple of days after the battle. Yeah, we just tried to remember like all the good things about him, shared yarns about good times that we'd had with him and some of the funny things that he'd done, especially during our time in Afghan. A lot of the junior soldiers were has really good mates, like they were his flatmates back home so they felt it, I felt it as a commander, but they felt it as his like, really good mates. And I'm still in touch with all of them. And we actually went up and saw his grave last year on the 10th anniversary, went up and met some of his wider whanau you know, which was good. And that's the first time I've actually been up to his urupa, it's still a burden.

And as a commander, how do you feel that?

So the day after the battle, the US commander of NATO, General Allen, he came up to actually do like a morale check with us. He's a four star general. So he's been in the military for 35 plus years and seen multiple battles himself, and he said, the comrades that you've made, and the adversity that you went through yesterday, that shared experience will bond you for life. And, for me personally, like losing someone directly under your command is a burden that I carry every day. But I use it in a way that I feel makes me a better person, and a better leader within the Army and the Defence Force. Because I know what can happen when we do what we do. And things don't always go the way that you plan. And the enemy always has a say. So therefore, I feel like it's made me a better commander in my subsequent jobs as an instructor or as a leader, as I've gone on through the ranks. And I've tried to impress that on to my junior commanders, the people that were at the rank that I was, at the time, the responsibility of that. And I've spoken to multiple promotion courses and trade courses in the like about my experience. And that's the one thing that I tried to get across them as that in the Defence Force and the Army, we are in the business of going to battle. That's part of it. And part of that means that some of the decisions you make might result in some of your subordinates not coming home. And you need to be able to live with that and support the people that are still here.

Just two weeks later, three more of your fellow soldiers were killed in an improvised explosive device attack. Where were you when you got that news?

My patrol and I were actually doing the critical incident brief with the psychologist in the Mess, in our dining hall. We were having breakfast, and I was the patrol that had been allocated as the quick reaction force. So if anything significant happens, we were to respond. And one of the operators from the Command Post ran in and she said K4 has just by an IED. And I was like "Oh, shit, here we go again". And so I gave a quick set of battle orders, and we drove out the door.

When you drove out the door and your arrives, can you describe what that scene was like?

Yeah. That one's burned in my brain as well. So we turned up and married up with the commander of that patrol, he was understandably pretty shaken. He had just lost about a quarter of his patrol, killed, and they were maintaining security of the incident site. I think it took us about 35 to 40 minutes to get there. The crater from the IED was about the size of a dinner table, and about waist deep, and the Humvee was spread across about 200 metres radius from the point of impact.

Can you tell us a bit about the recovery effort? I imagine you were in what was still quite a volatile environment. What's that like trying to aid people in a situation where you're actively putting yourself at risk?

Yep. So the other patrol K4, they had maintained security. So first off, we handed over the security with him we used our my soldiers and some of the other patrols' to maintain the security and cordoned off the site. So we got them out of it, so they didn't have to be involved. And then the rest of the Company went through and did a methodical clearance to make sure that there wasn't any secondary or tertiary IEDs because the enemy gets cunning, they know your or they learn your drills, so that they know that if you get hit by an IED, that you will then park X amount of metres away from it to establish your cordon. And they'll set a secondary IED to the first responders. So we wanted to make sure that that didn't happen first. Conducted the clearance through, and then our engineers found the command wire and the firing point from where the enemy had initiated the IED. And then we got on to the recovering of the soldiers that had been killed.

I understand that that recovery took quite a long time. Once you returned to camp, how did you decompress after a tragedy like that and so soon after the Battle of Baghak?

That recovery took all day. And then we we paused it at night, we then picked up on when complete to Do Abe, the patrol base just down the road, and everyone stayed there for the night and then we went back in the morning to finish it off, before we moved back to Romero. We did a methodical patrol back to Romero the next day. And we actually found subsequent potential IED firing points, so where they had cited and put in a command wire for them to detonate, but there was no device at the end of it, for example, that they were potentially going to use as a follow up attack on us. So we were, we didn't get luck, but because of our processes and the expertise of the people on the ground, they picked it up. We also had fresh replacements come in, so reinforcements to replace the people that were wounded two weeks prior. And so we had to lift them up and bring them into the fold, because they were obviously anxious, because we've just lost now five people killed.

And how did you cope with that when you're still dealing personally with say the loss of Pralli?

Stay busy. Communicate with home. Yeah, try to focus on the job at hand and know that this too shall pass. Dark humour is a really big one in the military, joking about stuff. Yeah, but mainly just staying busy because if you dwell on things too much, then you just end up going into a spiral downwards.

And as a commander in that situation, what did you do to support your soldiers through that process as well?

I tried to advocate for my soldiers as much as possible. And after the 19th, we actually moved from Romero and my patrol based ourselves out of Do Abe, or until we collapsed Do Abe as a patrol base. So we did better part of a month out there by ourselves, no internet, no cell phone coverage, the only contact with home was through a satellite phone. And the kind of rule of thumb was that you got one satellite phone call home a week, I was very liberal with that. And I just said to the team, I was like, "Call home as much as you want. Just make sure that you're not holding it up for someone else". So people got daily phone calls home throughout that period. We tried to stay busy, play games, sit around, talk about the good times, talk about what we're going to do when we get home. Yeah

And when you did get home, you've obviously talked about how that experience has informed the work that you have done subsequently. How much have you discussed in terms of what you've been through with soldiers and other people within the New Zealand Defence Force?

I'm 100% transparent. I'm under no illusion that my story is my story and that there's 70 or 80 other accounts of what happened on that day on the fourth of August, but also subsequently. So I feel like there were very few people within the regular force of the Army, Special Forces are different, that are still in that have combat experience. So I feel like that is a valuable asset. And that needs to be passed on. And that's not going to be done if I don't share my story. And what I've learned, what I do differently, and how I feel it's changed me and made me a better person.

You just mentioned the value of talking about this with other soldiers coming through the ranks who don't have that sort of experience and how valuable is it for you to talk about it with the people that you served alongside?

It's very valuable like we, like I said earlier, the bond that you have between soldiers or people that have experienced the same thing, it's immeasurable. We try to get together every now and then. We had a 10 year reunion last year and shared the stories of our accounts, and some people don't like talking about it. And we'll just talk about other stuff. And that's fine too, because some people haven't dealt with it as well, or that's how they've dealt with it. For me, it's talking, I'm the talker. My wife's a talker, I've told her everything that happened, I've told my parents and the like, just so that they know that what I've been through has changed me, and it'll affect me. But it also allows them to know that like, certain times a year are going to be hard for me Anzac Day, yep. And generally, August is quite hard for me. And so yeah, that helps me in my self awareness as well, to make sure that I'm not I don't put myself in a situation where I'm gonna, yeah, just get too down, I guess.

Thinking back to your deployment, and New Zealand's overall contribution to Afghanistan. How do you feel about what New Zealanders achieved there? And the lives which were lost in the process?

So I did a lot of reflection on this last year, I wrote a Master's research topic on the PRT. So I think that the 10 years that we were in Bamiyan specifically, we made the lives of those people so much better. We built schools or we facilitated the building of schools, hydropower, farming, tourism, roads, all of that, plus we provided security so that people of Bamiyan and the school kids, especially the girls, they got to experience that. So they know what what it should be like. The Taliban subsequent takeover in 2021, notwithstanding, like, I think that it was worth it. I think that the majority of people that have served there would say that they feel like it was worth it. But that you can probably see that that was going to happen as soon as the coalition pulled out all together.

Caleb, thank you for your time today. We'll end with one final reflection. Having been through what you have, if you could go back in time, and share some words of advice with your younger self before deploying to Afghanistan, what would they be?

To write a journal, write a journal every day, to gather your thoughts and collate what has happened because it's been 10 years now and I've told people parts or all of the story multiple times and it does become harder to recount. So write a journal so that you can remember this when you're a granddad.

This podcast is a production of the New Zealand Defence Force Defence Public Affairs team. We're your hosts, Alex Mason, and Mitchell Alexander. We'd like to thank our guests for sharing their stories with us.

If you need to talk to someone you'll find details for support services in the show notes. We welcome your feedback on this podcast, contact us by emailing podcast@nzdf.mil.nz