Hello and welcome to this bonus episode of America A History recorded straight after our recently published episode. Is Disneyland the happiest place on Earth? I'm joined now by the guest from that episode, Sabrina Mittemeye, to discuss this a little bit more. Sabrina, thank you for hanging on.

Sure. I can talk about Disney all day and most of the time I do when I get invited to Disney.

Yeah, we had a great chat on the main episode talking to all things Disney theme parks. So yeah, if you're finding this episode before listening to that, do go and check that out. But Sabrina, I just, I had a thought while we were discussing earlier and this idea of Disney adults is a real thing, right? And man, I've been doing a bit of research myself because I've actually been booking a little holiday to Disneyland Paris in the future. And man, this whole sort of Disney adult culture that is on TikTok is absolutely wild. What are your thoughts on that?

I mean, I can just finger point because I'm definitely a Disney adult in my own right. I was way more invested in the way some of these people are maybe, I want to say, 10, 15 years ago. So also at the time I was writing my dissertation, which then turned into this book on Disneyland because I, I would go to the parks all the time, as much as I could from Germany, but I legitimately traveled to the US A lot because it was also research or to Paris. I went on one big trip to the, to do all the Asian parks just after Shanghai had opened and finally in 2016. So, yeah, I mean, I think it's wild. It, it has become, it's been interesting because it's really been around for a while. Like I said, 10, 15 years ago, I was way more involved in it and like, in terms of just like pin trading and like buying expensive merch and just being, being super invested and all the new things coming out and being the first to experience whatever, right? All these kinds of things that you might still see on TikTok now. And I think just over the last five years or so there was just one moment also I think kind of on the tail end of the pandemic or in like maybe 2022, when I think there was a viral tweet or post somewhere and I think it was a Reddit. And then it got spread on other social media of some, some Disney adults doing a Disney wedding. And I think that sparked kind of controversy about people spending insane amounts of money on Disney trips and Disney weddings and these kinds of things as adults. And obviously it drew kind of the ire of people of, like, just don't get it and, like, not invested in this. And again, this idea of, like, Disney is super childish and whatever. And I think it's also true that a lot of these kind of Disney adults are a bit insane also because they're just really toxic. Like, there's a really kind of toxic fandom culture to it. But I've also just. I mean, I've also experienced it. I've been to, like, D23 Expo, like the Con, the convention that Disney puts on where they mostly pluck their own products. But I've also just legitimately made a lot of friends there of all ages. I'd say, like, actually people who are much older than me and some people who are still my close friends to this day. Yeah, Disney adults. There's a few people who are incredibly obnoxious and entitled. I think I was interviewed about this by the Rolling Stone a few years ago when this was a big moment. I had a big moment on social media and I said, well, there's a lot of, like, Karens in that fandom of like, white, white women with too much time and money. But legitimately, just like any other fandom, I think there's a lot of good people who just enjoy going there and have made friends going there. And I do think we shouldn't criticize adults for kind of having these interests. Like, I'm never on the side of, like, finger pointing. There's also. Whether you're. Whether it's Disney or just a big Star wars nerd. Of course, now that's also owned by Disney or like a Trekkie. Right? I mean, I've been to countless Star Trek and sci Fi conventions and people also sneered them or like Comic Con or whatever. And I think it's the same thing of like, just let people enjoy things as well. So.

Yeah. Yeah, I couldn't agree more. And on that note, how many times have you been to Disney?

I don't know. I legitimately never counted and I now couldn't go back to count, I think. I mean, I. I first went as a child, so I. That already makes it more difficult to count. Like, my parents took me to still Euro Disney when it had opened like maybe a year or so after its opening when I was about 5. So I think that was a good age to kind of actually have some enjoyment of it. I don't really have an actual recollection of it other than, like being told. I mean, I think I do remember going on Big Thunder Mountain. So there's that. But yeah, after that, I don't know. I mean, we went a few times when I was a kid, also to the US Both Disney World and Disneyland in California. Then I had my years as a surly teenager where I never wanted anything to do with this, and then kind of got back into the hype. And then with this dissertation I wrote like 15 years ago. And then that's when I really visited all the time. And then because of work, I had to go to the US So often that I often ended up also going to the parks in one way or another and been on Disney cruises and then stuff.

So are there any. Are there any parks that you haven't been to?

No.

So you've been to everyone?

Yes.

That's amazing. And so I guess, firstly, what's your favorite park? And secondly, what's your favorite ride?

Tokyo DisneySea. If you've not experienced that, it's like the best park ever. It's. It's. And it's only growing and it's only getting more amazing. I'm actually planning on going back to Tokyo next spring also because of reasons I do not want to enter United States anymore, which is a big problem for my work. But that also means I don't know when I can go back to those parks in the US and see.

Hopefully three years. Three years and you can go back.

Yeah, that's certainly how fascism goes. But yeah, it's. We'll see. But yeah. So my favorite ride, I don't know. I mean, there's too many, I mean, from the classics that you find in multiple parks. Definitely, like Big Thunder Mountain, because again, it's the first kind of one I remember or the first roller coaster I remember being on.

Yeah.

And I mean, they've also tweaked it over the years and added some effects to it and made it really fun. But like, I mean, if you've been on Rise of the Resistance, like that big Star wars experience in the US it's just absolutely insane and it's very hard to describe. Like, it's just so intricate. And then, yeah, Tokyo DisneySea has a bunch of like Jules Verne themed things. They have a big ride called Journey to the center of the Earth that is also just amazing. Like, it's a thrill ride, but it also has like intricate theming and audio animatronics and kind of just what Disney does. Well. Or the Indiana Jones ride that you find in California and in Japan as well, those kinds of things.

But like, yeah, I remember in Disneyland Paris when it first opened before, it was basically a Star wars land. It was. It was very Jules Verne themed. Space Mountain was based on. Yeah, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, I still hope they bring that back because that Star wars overlay of the Space Mountain in Paris was always supposed to be temporary, and then it never went away. And I'm very sad because it's such a beautiful ride from the outside. And I mean, you didn't need this to be Star Wars. Like, I get the idea of, like, sometimes doing, like, temporary overlays over things. Fun. But, like, I just want to see it restored and I hope they end up doing that.

But yeah, the sort of the steampunk theming of. Yeah, the Space Mountain building just doesn't really fit the Star wars thing exactly.

Like, that was supposed to be a gimmick. So, I mean, they were supposed to build some of the cool. Like, they were supposed to build their big Star Wars Rise of the Resistance thing in Paris because they're revamping all of Walt Disney Studios Park. Right.

Yeah.

Started like they opened their Marvel stuff. They're gonna open their Frozen ST in the spring of next year, all of that and. And more. And then Star wars was going to be done the pipeline when they scrapped that. So I think the problem is, like, they were going to have more Star wars over there and then maybe they would have returned that, but I don't know now.

Yeah, well, there's. There's. I mean, there's a lot happening in Paris at the moment.

So.

Yeah, who knows what's next? But thinking more broadly and sort of going back to our discussion on the main episode, how different do you think the American cultural landscape would be today if Disneyland never happened?

Hard to say. I don't know. Honestly, it's very hard to speculate because that's like such a. There's so many domino effects that you get from. Hard to say. Yeah. And I think. You never know. Parallel thinking exists. Maybe someone else would have done something similar. But, like, it's just hard to. To imagine. I think it had and continues to have a massive impact on how pop culture functions and kind of that idea of synergy and IP and then theming and then like immersive entertainment and like. Yeah, it's just very hard to imagine without it. Also globally. Also without Disney. Globally. I mean, Disney animation has influenced animation in the Soviet Union, in China, in Japan. Like, it's just very hard to. To think of the world without Disney.

What a note to end on. Sabrina, thank you so much for joining me for this. And Also for the main episode which anyone listening do go and check out right now. Sabrina do remind everyone where they can connect with you.

You can find me on bluesky and you can find me on Instagram. Just search for my name. Sabrina Mittermaier should come up. Or you can shoot me an email at my work email with the University of Kassel that you should be able.

To Google easily as Wonderful. Thank you so much. And to anyone listening, please remember to rate, review, follow the show. And as always, if you really love what we do, all the links are in the show notes to support us as well, as well as all the things that we've mentioned in this and the main episode so you can read up and discover more. Thank you all so much for listening and goodbye.