Welcome to lottery dreams and

fortune. My name is Timothy Schultz.

This is an interview with lottery

lawyer Kurt Panouses.

Now, if you want to watch this

interview, we will put a link to the

YouTube channel in the show notes.

But without further ado, let's get

to the interview.

So I am so excited to be

joined here by Kurt Panouses.

He actually is the

lottery lawyer.

He is one of the most renowned

lottery lawyers in the United

States, and he

has represented some major, major

winners, including some billion

dollars winners.

People have won hundreds of

millions.

I'm just so pleased to welcome Kurt

Panouses to the program today.

How are you doing?

I'm doing great.

Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah. Thank you so much for for

joining. So for people

that aren't familiar, how many

lottery winners roughly have you

represented and how did you get into

this?

I believe last time I looked it was

a little over 50.

I mean, even we're talking about

early April of of this year.

I've already helped six winners,

so far this year.

How did I get into it?

Well, probably,

mid to late 80s.

I received a phone call from an

attorney here in town that said,

hey, Kurt, I have a client

that called me. I did a divorce form

years ago.

He never paid me, but he called me

up and said, hey, I can now pay you

because I won the lottery.

And he just said, I'm a family law

attorney. I don't know what to do

here. Can you help

this person? So I said, sure.

And, you know, I got into it.

I got to look at the state of

Florida laws at that time and

realized that it's appropriate

at that time to claim it.

And across their different rules.

Back then, you didn't

have the option of taking the cash

lump sum. You had to take the

annuity. So we went through that

whole process, and I learned

a lot of of the process, thinking

back when I had other clients

that came to me because once I did

one, people heard about it and they

said, okay, let's call them next

time. And I started putting some

stuff on my website, and the next

thing I know, I was getting calls on

a regular basis.

What I found out was,

when you just worry about the

claim and you don't look

down the road, there was a tendency

to miss things.

And and so for that particular

client, they went up with

a group of friends.

They party all the way up there.

They came back, they party.

And they went through because they

didn't have any counseling.

They went through that first annuity

payment so quickly.

You know, they ended up, going

to a place and selling out their,

their, their ticket at that time

because they needed the money

upfront.

And again, I learned in the

process that you just can't be

looking at a claim.

You have to think in the future

of where the client's going to be.

So it's been really helpful to have

those early days to,

you know, to learn from.

And that's why I always tell people

today what you need is an

experienced attorney.

You know, I had a I had a person

that contacted me not too

long ago that said, hey, I

live in Georgia, but I went to

Florida, bought a ticket on

vacation. Now I'm back in Georgia.

So do I need a Georgia attorney

or a Florida attorney to help me?

My answer was, you need an

experienced attorney.

And, you know, we went through the

process of of analyzing

the issues where the ticket was

purchased, because those are the

laws that that, dictate

how you can claim it.

So it's the state that you actually

purchased to take it in.

Is, is the is the state laws

that you need to make sure that

you're familiar with and that you

comply with?

Yeah, in every every state is

different. And I know a lot of

people are interested.

There are viewers from all over the

world, but people that are in

the United States are interested in,

how to claim it anonymously in

different states, have different

rules.

I want to get into that in a second.

But first of all, for people that

aren't familiar, what is the

largest?

What are a couple of the largest

prizes that you have helped people

claim? And what about the smallest?

Well, I mean, I've claimed, with

a California ticket that was $2

billion, the largest one ever.

So I was involved with that,

with that case, as far

as the smallest. Yeah.

I received a phone call locally here

from a teacher, and,

it was $50,000, a

lump sum.

Or she could get $4,000.

I think it was for a month for life.

And so we talked about all the

issues. And normally I'm someone

who will always say, take, take the

lump sum, pay your taxes and be over

with. But with this particular

teacher, I just said, hey, listen,

adding a couple thousand dollars on

to your annual salary and you're

getting ready to retire.

Makes a lot of sense to do it that

way. Pay a little bit more in income

tax or the same amount that you've

been paying so far.

And that way, if you lived to be 90,

you keep getting these payments.

In myself, I like to

tell clients at least $1 million,

and then it makes sense to bring

someone in to help.

Yeah, and if you win

a major jackpot, theoretically

tens of millions or hundreds

of millions.

I mean, how do you determine

whether. Because in the United.

Dates you can you reference to

earlier, but you can choose the cash

half right away lump sum option

before taxes or the annuity

which is all of it over a period of

something like 29 years.

So how do you determine

which, somebody

should take? Does their age matter?

What happens if you're in your 20s?

Yeah, obviously someone in their

20s. I would do differently

than someone in their 60s.

That's pretty much already retired.

What we have to remember is,

these lump sum amounts have changed.

You know, back in 2021,

when I helped $1 billion ticket,

the cash lump sum at that time

was $760 million.

So about 76%

today. This last week, we had two,

two major winners, one

in new Jersey, I think it was, and

one in Oregon.

And both of those were billion

dollar tickets.

But if you looked at them, the lump

sum in both cases was like $480

million, less than 50%.

And that's because the states

are only allowed to invest this

money in in safe

types of investments, which are

five year treasuries.

And back in 2021,

the treasury rate for five

year treasuries was under a fraction

of 1%, like 10th, a 10th

of, 2/10 of a 1%.

Today, the treasuries are

4 to 5% so

that inflation affects our

lump sum. And I wrote an article

about that about out, you know,

taking your lumps with the lump sum.

But so that's that's the first

question is, is will

the client be comfortable in

their life with

taking the lump sum.

Or should we really look at the

annuity if it's going to be really

substantially more money that they

that they need for their life

expectancy, most people will

take a lump sum.

From a legal perspective,

I just tell the clients this way

right now, the most you're going to

pay an income tax is 37%

at the federal level.

And then if you live in a state

where there's a state tax, you have

to pay a state tax.

Florida, we have no tax.

But, you know, basically

it's a 37% tax.

Where are we going to be as a

country in 4 or 5

years? And I tell them back

in the 1970s,

you know, I was I was just

graduating from high school and

going to college at that time.

Never realized it because never had

to really consider be concerned

about it. But the highest income tax

bracket at that time was 90%.

So, you know, will we go back

to those days?

You know, that was war stuff.

Will we go back to those days?

Are we going to have other issues in

this country that's going to require

more income tax?

So the first thing I tell people is

you need to pay the tax now 37%,

or you could pay as high as 56%

down the road if we change our tax

laws because it's the year that you

receive it, that you pay the tax.

So that's number one.

And then of course, number two,

the concerns that you have today

going through this process, you

know, claiming this ticket,

if you take the annuity, you're

going to go through some of those

same feelings 29

more times.

You know, you're going to be

questioning, am I going to get the

check? When's the check going to get

here? Is it coming from the state?

Is my state solvent to pay the

money?

You know, so a lot of people will

say, hey, from from a control

standpoint, I would like

to just pay the 37%, be

done with it and be on with my life.

There's plenty of money there for me

to live comfortably.

And, you know, like this last,

this last week with these $2 billion

tickets out there, after you

pay the taxes at the federal

and state level and the lump sum

amount, they're still going to end

up with around 300 million

after all the taxes.

And then the question is, if I took

the 300 million and I invested in

4%, I would get $12

million a year.

So if I if I spend

$12 million a year, I'll still have

that 300 million in the investment

account. Am I okay with that?

If you're okay with that, then

let's just take the lump sum and

move on, as opposed to

wondering about whether I'm going to

get that next check.

What's the tax rate going to be?

What happens if I die?

If you die with these annuity

payments, all that gets lumped

up together and you have to pay a

transfer tax on it.

So, you know, for most

people, taking the lump sum

and getting it over with is a

smarter way to go.

Hey, you know, I'm not going to be

able to, to make good

decisions.

I'm concerned about the spending

habits that I have.

Then what will we'll consider the,

the annuity at that time.

But seldom do I really want to take

it in.

Those seldom cases when someone does

take the annuity and they want to

transfer it to somebody, does that

have to be in a will or how does

that work?

Well, most states, just

have you sign a form when you, when

you claim the ticket and you

can designate a beneficiary and

just have to keep that, you know, in

place.

Some states will say, hey,

give us a trust document, we'll

accept it and we'll pay.

You know the benefit. There's really

trust, but you don't lose the money.

So if there's 28

more payments or 29 more payments,

someone's got someone that you

designate is going to get those 20

or 29 more payments.

The question is how much tax is

going to be paid on.

And you you actually are

a CPA.

You you are also an

accountant. So you kind of have a

unique niche in not

only helping people claim the

prizes, but you have

a background as a CPA.

My first seven years out of college

was as a CPA, and

I went into the tax end of it.

Worked with one of the big eight

accounting firms at that time in

Chicago and, you know,

was really doing tax planning and

tax compliance work.

So there is not an income

tax return today that I have not

personally filed and filled out.

So while I don't do

that for these clients from

the early stages, I can keep that

circle small because I know

how it will affect them and

how to discuss the issues with them.

And then of course, after we

claim it, that's when I'll bring

in a compliance,

CPA firm to help us

with the filing of the tax returns.

That's when I'll bring in a

specialist that, you know, depending

on what state that you're in.

There's certain things I can and

can't do as a Florida attorney,

but helping clients with a claim I

can do.

You know, some people every day.

People they don't need a bunch of

people in white shirts,

you know, and ties coming down to

visit with them and tell them,

you know, how they're going to get

them this great return.

They may just want, hey, you know,

a 3 or 4% return.

$300 million is.

I'm good with that.

You know, I don't want to take any

risk. I don't want to invest in

in, you know, like that attorney

in New York, he ended up,

you know, get involved with the

financial end of it and started

investing client monies to get them

double digit returns and and got

involved with the wrong people and,

you know, clients that went 300

million or 100 million or even 50

million, they're going to be good.

You know, you just got to keep them

from getting in trouble.

And you need to add to to

their problems. So, you know,

getting a decent return, 3 or

4% spending, they're enjoying their

life. That's what you want to do for

them.

You know my understanding when

it comes to the cash

or the annuity.

Correct me if I'm wrong because the

annuities are in such a conservative

low interest rate

that that is one of the main

motivators. Why most people choose

the cash option, because you can

invest it in something a little

higher and get a way higher return.

Would you agree with that?

When financial people get involved,

you know the bankers and the

investment people, they always

say, well, you know, let's

take the lump sum because I

can outperform, I can outperform

the market, I can outperform the

market. You're not trying to

outperform the market.

You're trying to outperform five

year treasuries.

And so you know again today

if someone wins you know it's

April of 2024.

I can go down the street to any any

financial institution and get a CD

for 5% basically.

So I mean, that requires

no effort, no investment advice.

And maybe for someone right now,

that's what they want to do.

They just want to be in money

markets and, and CDs

until this election is over with.

And they know which way our country

is headed. And and so,

you know, you need to listen to your

client. You need to find out what

the client wants.

They don't sometimes they don't want

complications.

They don't want they don't want to

find out that they should have all

these different types of

investments.

You know, so I try to match the

people up with a couple

of options for them.

Let them meet and then talk to the

client, go, okay, you know, you've

talked to 2 or 3.

They're all good.

Which one do you like better and

why? And let's move on.

Let's set up our accounts with them.

And sometimes we'll say,

hey, let's not put all our eggs in

one basket. Let's put 50% here,

put 50% here.

And after a year or two, we can

combine them, if we decide

to we don't want to just use one

investment group.

Just want to go back just a

little bit.

When you mentioned worrying

about whether the check is going to

come in, if you hit a major lottery

jackpot, do those

do they typically come in and checks

in the United States or are they

wires or how is that paid in?

And secondly to that, in addition

to that, where does the initial

payment go to?

Because you certainly

don't want to put that in a checking

account in a bank that's not

insured.

What's your.

Yeah, yeah.

Well let's answer the second one

first. And you know, I've said

before, you get this big check

from the lottery, your state

lottery.

This is not the time that you want

to go down to your local credit

union and make a deposit.

Okay.

Now, nothing about about credit

unions. They serve they serve the

population in a very good way.

But you want to use private bankers.

You want to use investment people

that are used to dealing with

big dollar amounts and big

investments for families.

So every state's different.

And you would think in 2023,

2024, in

the world that we live in and it

would just be a wire transfer.

You know, most, most states

require.

Like two weeks, sometimes

longer. Some states are longer.

They have to do supposedly do all

their due diligence and all this

stuff, and they'll either

send the check or they'll wire

the money.

There's a couple of states that I

dealt with, you know, out west

that you walk out of the office

with that check.

I mean, they they cut it right

there.

Even if it's even if it's millions

of dollars.

That's. Yes.

You you walk out with that, check

that that. So and

the other thing is a lot of people

are starting to play online.

And so what they'll do is

within a day or two, they'll just

put the money in your online

account. Now I think that that's

kind of scary because now

I got a whole bunch of money.

So I might say, well,

you know, I want a week ago, let me

go ahead and buy a thousand more

tickets, you know, because it's

it's it's monopoly money.

And so that's a concern, but every

state's a little bit different.

Most states take a couple of weeks.

A lot of states will issue the check

right away. I know Wisconsin issues

checks right away.

Washington issues checks right

away. You walk out with the checks.

Most states, it takes a couple

weeks.

Like Florida. It takes about ten

days. Check.

It's wired. They actually have you

show up at the office with

a form signed by your financial

institution that's notarized,

and they'll even call that financial

institution before you leave that

day, just to make sure the account

set up and, and the money

can be wired to they want the,

the bank number and the routing

number and all that stuff.

And they want it signed off by a

banker. So they know that they've

sent it to the right place.

You have to remember when this money

comes from the state lottery to,

you know, you're winning account,

the account that Kurt set up for you

in the trust or the LLC, whatever

we did or the group, you know, I set

up these accounts for these people.

I'm the representative to keep them

anonymous.

And so the check comes in

and it goes into the bank account

or the investment account

that I've created for them, with

their permission, obviously.

But then that institution

may hold it and say, wait a minute.

I know this came from the state.

I know it's lottery money, but

we gotta hold it seven days

for it to clear before you have

access to it.

So a lot of times what I'll do is

I'll find out what the

state lottery,

department uses for their checks,

and we'll open up the account

at that bank.

So that way, when the money comes

in that day, the bank

can immediately contact the state

lottery and get it approved

and get the money released.

And so therefore, you know, you're

not losing the interest on the seven

days, and the money's there in your

account. Again, that all comes with

experience.

Yeah. I imagine you've learned so

much over the years from doing

this one follow up question

real quick.

The you mentioned the private

bankers. When people

have private bankers,

when they have theoretically

hundreds of millions coming in.

Where are those bankers putting the

money? Is that like some sort of a

brokerage account?

Like what? What type of account?

Because.

You know, you're not putting it in a

bank where it's a, you know,

limited to the protection.

They have it in an investment

account, which is a separate

fiduciary relationship.

So there's no risk to the assets

being if the bank goes on there,

there's no risk.

Okay.

So what the what

these financial institutions will do

is, you know, some of the smaller

ones will actually go out

and do a nice portfolio for

the client. So, you know, they'll

tell the clients, hey, listen,

we're going to invest your money.

We're going to invest it in, in

companies, you know, you've

heard them.

So they're going to go out and say,

okay, we're going to take 15%

of your funds, and we're going to

invest it in tech stocks.

So you're going to buy Microsoft,

you're going to buy Apple, you're

going to buy you know, you're going

to own shares and all these things.

So when you get your statement it's

going to say you own 2000

shares of Apple.

You own 2000 shares of Microsoft,

you own 2000 shares of this.

And so they'll put 15% in the tech

industry. They'll put 15%

in medical companies.

You know, your Pfizer's your

Merck's, your Stryker Medical,

you know, all these things.

And so when the client gets the

statements, number one, it'll be

diversified tech, medical

consumer staples, you know,

a little bit of real estate.

So they'll have a giant portfolio

put together and you'll have 70%

of it basically in stocks

that you've heard of.

And all those stocks, they'll tell

you I won't buy a stock

unless it's paying me a dividend

to own the stock.

Do most clients that you have

that have won major

prizes, have they retired?

What do they are you able to say?

I know they've most

of them have claimed anonymously,

but what have they

gone on to do or are they still

working, or are you able to say.

In the early days it was kind of

funny because, you know,

the dollar, the dollar wins

were not as what they are now.

It's it seems like in the last ten

years, we've gotten these

super jackpots that didn't exist

before.

So in those early days,

if someone got,

you know, received $1 million

a year, that's a lot

of money. But after taxes, you

know, I would tell them, hey,

let's not quit our job right away,

because back then, you were worried

about your medical insurance, you

know? So let's make sure

that, you know, you take a leave of

absence from your job.

Let's go out, make sure you get a

good, medical review

and get all your tests done to make

sure that there's nothing lingering

there that you didn't know about.

That's going to cause a lot of

expense.

So let's go get all these tests

done. Let's go out and get an

individual policy in place.

And then you can then you can quit

your job and go on.

But I've also told people that have

won a lot of money that we're still

working.

They told me, oh, I love

my job. I'm going to stay at my job

and I'll go, okay, I tell you,

I'm going to give you six weeks,

because in those six weeks,

your boss is going to tell you or

whoever your supervisor is going to

tell you to do some, and you're

going to look at your statement that

day and you're looking at your

statement. You can tell that

supervisor, now I'm out of here.

So, yeah, when when they see when

they take a look at their money,

when it's there after 4 or 5 weeks,

you no one stays at their job.

You know, I, I, I

hear about these stories,

you know, I watch it on TV

that, you know, this group one.

And they all stayed at their job.

You know, I

have never seen that.

I've never seen that.

This is the biggest financial

decision you're going to make in

your lifetime.

We need to have a plan, and there's

no do overs.

So this is the time to put a plan

together, understand the plan

and follow the plan.

And it's more than just the client.

You mentioned Winston Wolf from

Pulp Fiction, and I see behind you

you have a mega million. INS.

Check for a wolverine.

It's a little bit different, but the

Wolverine AFL club,

it was, I believe, $1 billion prize

for mega millions that you helped

them receive on behalf

of a group, I believe.

Yeah.

So that.

Go ahead.

I was gonna say. So that was

interesting because, you know, that

was a call that I received

probably within, 48

hours of the drawing.

So I got a call right away and,

and they said, hey, we

did some investigation.

We have the winning ticket, we want

to talk to you.

And so we started the

process of talking.

And, you know, I said, hey, let me

do a deeper dive in the Michigan.

You know, I went to law school,

Michigan. So I kind of knew a little

bit, but I never really looked at

the Michigan Lottery laws.

And so so I'm going online

and checking some of the stories.

And here's the person from the

Michigan Lottery out there saying,

well, in Michigan you

have to be a natural person to

claim lottery.

So you can't claim it in a trust.

You can't claim it, and I'll say, so

we will know who the winner is, and

we'll be able to tell he's on the

news telling everyone about this.

So I'm looking at these at

these rules and the laws and,

and I said, well, you know,

you have to be a natural person.

I understand that, but

am I not a natural person?

I said, of course I am.

So I went back to the group and I

said, hey, listen, I think there's a

way to do this after looking at the

laws. And so we all

agree that that's how we're going to

do it.

I flew up to Michigan.

You know, we we spent a lot of time,

a couple weeks putting this whole

thing together.

And we looked at choices.

And, you know, one of the other

things that I found out is

in doing this work, every

once in a while, you just can't

go in there as the lottery

attorney to help people, you need

to bring your sidekick in.

And that sidekick has

to be someone that comes in as a

litigator, ready to

file what they need to file.

And so you have to put that into

place.

And so I actually brought a

litigation attorney with me

because I started dealing with

the attorney general's office who

represents the lottery,

that you with every state gambling

and lottery is, is is

run by the state

attorney. So the, you know, the

attorney general's office.

So I started dealing with them and

they were kind of pushing back a

little bit like, hey,

we know where you're going, but we

don't think. And I'm like, oh, I

don't care if you think, you

know, I'm just looking at it as I'm

looking at your rules and your rules

allow for this.

And so I created

a group, and I came

in with group rules like a club,

and, and we gave it a name,

and we put names

down, and everyone signed it,

and I walked into that office,

and, you know.

Well, actually, initially

what happened is I went up to

Michigan. I said, I we're ready to

claim I'd like to come in today

so we can make the claim.

And I was told, well, you can't come

in today.

Well, we'll call back tomorrow.

So the next day I woke up

and called them. I was in Michigan,

so I was just, you know, I'm not an

hour and a half away.

And so I just said, hey,

you know, I called yesterday, I want

to come in today to claim.

And they said, well, you can't come

into claim call tomorrow.

And I said, well, why can't I come

in to claim? And they go, because

we're we're just not ready for you.

And I go, well, you know, it's been

three weeks. I want to claim this

ticket.

Well, no.

And I think they knew where I was

going and they were trying to

postpone it, and,

so they can deal with it.

So then I said, listen,

I'm going to be there tomorrow at

10 00:25:53

00, and I want to come

10 00:25:55

in there and claim the ticket.

10 00:25:57

And I'm telling you right now,

10 00:25:58

either I'm going to claim the ticket

10 00:26:00

or I'm going to send the winner's

10 00:26:01

home, and I'm going to call a press

10 00:26:03

conference outside of your lottery

10 00:26:05

office and call the people I know

10 00:26:07

from NBC and ABC

10 00:26:09

and have them there.

10 00:26:10

And I'm going to tell the people

10 00:26:12

that the state of Michigan does not

10 00:26:13

want to pay the lottery winners.

10 00:26:15

And, you know, of course, they

10 00:26:17

said, no problem, we'll see you

10 00:26:19

tomorrow at 10:00, blah, blah, blah.

10 00:26:20

So, you know, I went there and,

10 00:26:23

I brought I brought an attorney that

10 00:26:25

was ready to file an administrative,

10 00:26:28

you know, motion

10 00:26:30

for, for this relief.

10 00:26:32

And, so we created

10 00:26:34

a club.

10 00:26:35

We went there as the as

10 00:26:37

the representative of the club.

10 00:26:39

I signed all the paperwork, I did

10 00:26:40

everything, and of course, they

10 00:26:42

said, well, okay, but we need to

10 00:26:44

have a picture.

10 00:26:44

And I said, well, I'll take the

10 00:26:45

picture. So I took a picture with

10 00:26:47

the with the lottery

10 00:26:49

advisor, you know, the head of the

10 00:26:51

lottery at that time, he's since

10 00:26:52

retired and moved on as a judge.

10 00:26:55

And there's the two of us holding

10 00:26:57

the check together.

10 00:26:58

And when the when the picture came

10 00:27:00

out, they removed them from the

10 00:27:01

picture. So it's just me holding the

10 00:27:02

check like this.

10 00:27:04

And it was kind of really weird.

10 00:27:05

Oh my gosh.

10 00:27:06

You know what I'm line is,

10 00:27:08

you know, the way we did it.

10 00:27:09

We comply with their laws.

10 00:27:11

They didn't. Like it.

10 00:27:12

You know, it came

10 00:27:14

to a push or shove.

10 00:27:16

But the bottom line is, the clients

10 00:27:18

were able to get these funds,

10 00:27:20

and they're living their life, and

10 00:27:22

they're so happy, and they

10 00:27:24

they're enjoying life, and they're

10 00:27:26

doing things for the community.

10 00:27:28

In a silent way.

10 00:27:30

To help out the community.

10 00:27:31

They're in southeast Michigan and,

10 00:27:33

and other places.

10 00:27:35

And so it all worked out well,

10 00:27:37

and I did I did the

10 00:27:39

holding on the check and

10 00:27:42

have done a couple of interviews on

10 00:27:43

it, and, no one knows who the

10 00:27:45

winners are, and that's a good

10 00:27:46

thing. So.

10 00:27:47

Yeah, that that seems that seems

10 00:27:49

very wise.

10 00:27:51

And on this show

10 00:27:52

I've interviewed quite a few lottery

10 00:27:54

winners and some

10 00:27:56

of them, well couple anyway.

10 00:27:59

You know, they've done interviews

10 00:28:00

anonymously.

10 00:28:01

So and I've also

10 00:28:03

I offered people, you know, we can

10 00:28:05

blur your face. We can disguise your

10 00:28:06

voice completely respect that.

10 00:28:08

Or if they don't want to do an

10 00:28:09

interview, that's fine too.

10 00:28:10

But, I respect

10 00:28:12

that. But how do you stay anonymous?

10 00:28:14

If you you mentioned

10 00:28:16

it in California and Florida, but

10 00:28:18

some states in the United States,

10 00:28:20

they say that you cannot.

10 00:28:21

So are there any states where that's

10 00:28:23

just not an option, or do you think

10 00:28:25

is there always a way or

10 00:28:27

so.

10 00:28:28

Some states make it very difficult,

10 00:28:31

very hard. But as I always as

10 00:28:33

I've said, you need to also find

10 00:28:35

out from your clients,

10 00:28:37

you know, a little bit about them.

10 00:28:38

So, like, if I run into

10 00:28:40

anyone that happened

10 00:28:42

to be in law enforcement or

10 00:28:43

something like that.

10 00:28:44

Well, you know,

10 00:28:47

I think you can have a really good

10 00:28:48

reason for them to be,

10 00:28:51

they will claim it anonymously

10 00:28:52

because I had someone who

10 00:28:54

was a prison guard, and, and

10 00:28:56

he was and the state said we get

10 00:28:58

to disclose.

10 00:28:59

And I said, well, you disclose

10 00:29:01

he's this guy's in trouble, you

10 00:29:02

know, with what he does for a

10 00:29:04

living. He's in trouble, his

10 00:29:05

family's in trouble.

10 00:29:06

And so, you know, we went to the

10 00:29:08

attorney general's office.

10 00:29:09

We talked about it, and they allowed

10 00:29:11

it. They, you know, they allowed for

10 00:29:12

it to happen. I another state that

10 00:29:14

said, hey, you know,

10 00:29:16

you win these, these

10 00:29:18

dollars for life.

10 00:29:20

But we were saying it's only 7

10 00:29:22

million. Our state law says

10 00:29:24

it has to be over 10 million before

10 00:29:25

we allow the person to be anonymous.

10 00:29:27

So since our lump sum amounts

10 00:29:29

only 7 million, we get to identify

10 00:29:31

who the winner is.

10 00:29:32

So I walked in there with,

10 00:29:34

three, three, reports

10 00:29:36

from, you know,

10 00:29:39

mathematicians that basically

10 00:29:41

said that my client was in his

10 00:29:43

mid 20s, that one

10 00:29:45

$365,000

10 00:29:47

a year for life, that the value of

10 00:29:49

that was like 18 million.

10 00:29:50

And so, you know, I went in there

10 00:29:52

and said, it's not a $7 million

10 00:29:54

win based on his life expectancy.

10 00:29:56

It's, you know, 18.

10 00:29:57

And they go, okay, well, you know,

10 00:29:59

so you have to you have to

10 00:30:01

you have to research.

10 00:30:01

You have to look, I tell the

10 00:30:03

clients, how much is your privacy

10 00:30:05

worth? I mean, that's the question,

10 00:30:07

you know, do you, do you want to

10 00:30:09

give me more time?

10 00:30:10

Do you want to give me a little bit

10 00:30:11

extra funds so that we can do it

10 00:30:12

this way? Or do you just want to go

10 00:30:14

in and client that's that's your

10 00:30:16

option. I you know, I can't

10 00:30:18

I can't change it for you.

10 00:30:19

But tell me what you want.

10 00:30:20

That's very, very interesting.

10 00:30:22

And for people that

10 00:30:25

are watching this, perhaps

10 00:30:27

a future lottery winner,

10 00:30:30

what should you do if you win?

10 00:30:32

A major lottery jackpot or even

10 00:30:35

hundreds of thousands or 100,000

10 00:30:37

or millions.

10 00:30:38

What should you do?

10 00:30:39

What are the steps?

10 00:30:40

So, you know, every state

10 00:30:42

lottery, office

10 00:30:44

says selling the ticket.

10 00:30:46

They'll even say, sign the ticket

10 00:30:47

before you go home.

10 00:30:49

You know, before the lottery

10 00:30:50

drawing. Sign the tickets on the

10 00:30:52

back of the ticket.

10 00:30:53

Well, they do that because,

10 00:30:54

you know, if you sign the back of

10 00:30:56

the ticket in a lot of states,

10 00:30:58

that's how you have to claim,

10 00:31:00

because the tickets a bearer

10 00:31:01

document and whoever fills

10 00:31:03

out the claim form and estimates the

10 00:31:04

ticket and, and they'll say,

10 00:31:06

well, sorry.

10 00:31:08

Yeah, I know you wanted to go talk

10 00:31:09

to companies this, but, you know,

10 00:31:11

that's not going to help you now

10 00:31:12

because you signed the ticket.

10 00:31:14

So I always tell people, do

10 00:31:16

not sign the ticket.

10 00:31:17

Okay.

10 00:31:18

Am I rationale for that is,

10 00:31:20

again, I want to know

10 00:31:22

where this client

10 00:31:24

believes they're going to be

10 00:31:26

a year from now.

10 00:31:27

Okay. As I said, I'm always this

10 00:31:29

forward looking plan.

10 00:31:31

So not just the claim.

10 00:31:33

Where are you going to be a year

10 00:31:34

from now? Who would you have helped

10 00:31:36

out? You know, said brothers and

10 00:31:37

sisters, as a children, you know

10 00:31:39

who's part of this.

10 00:31:40

So that way we can do the tax

10 00:31:42

planning, the transfer

10 00:31:44

without it being a gift and using

10 00:31:46

your exemptions for

10 00:31:48

better purposes, like for GST

10 00:31:49

purposes, generation, skipping tax

10 00:31:51

purposes rather than for

10 00:31:53

just transferring over to a family

10 00:31:55

member. So I want

10 00:31:57

the back of the ticket to be a

10 00:31:58

canvas.

10 00:31:59

And I'm the painter, I am

10 00:32:01

Michelangelo, and I want

10 00:32:03

to go to that canvas, and I want to

10 00:32:04

have a plain canvas that I could

10 00:32:06

paint this picture of where the

10 00:32:08

client wants to be.

10 00:32:09

So if someone.

10 00:32:10

Signed the ticket.

10 00:32:12

It's real hard to paint over that.

10 00:32:14

Okay, so. So I like to take it to

10 00:32:15

be blank.

10 00:32:17

I tell the client, you know, make

10 00:32:19

a copy of the ticket for the front

10 00:32:20

in the back. So that's all I would

10 00:32:22

need to do my work and then

10 00:32:24

take a selfie with the ticket.

10 00:32:25

Hold it right next to you, take a

10 00:32:27

selfie and say, okay, here's my

10 00:32:29

face. On this day, I have this

10 00:32:30

ticket, and here are the numbers.

10 00:32:31

I can read them and then put the

10 00:32:33

ticket in the safest place.

10 00:32:35

You know, because we

10 00:32:37

will not need the ticket until the

10 00:32:38

day of the court.

10 00:32:39

And on those days, you

10 00:32:41

know, in most cases, I

10 00:32:43

don't travel up with the client

10 00:32:44

because they, they, you know, they

10 00:32:45

kind of like the idea of, of, hey,

10 00:32:48

I know this guy.

10 00:32:49

I know he's my attorney, but I

10 00:32:51

feel more comfortable driving up

10 00:32:53

separately or flying, whatever

10 00:32:55

we do, and we'll

10 00:32:57

meet at a location someplace, some

10 00:32:59

public location where people

10 00:33:01

are expecting us to meet.

10 00:33:02

And at that point in time,

10 00:33:05

you know, I'll tell the client,

10 00:33:06

okay.

10 00:33:07

Let's get into my vehicle.

10 00:33:09

My vehicle's a rental vehicle.

10 00:33:11

If anyone takes the license plate,

10 00:33:12

they're not going to know it.

10 00:33:13

So leave your vehicle here.

10 00:33:15

Get in here. You got the ticket?

10 00:33:16

You got your driver's license.

10 00:33:18

We'll go to the office.

10 00:33:20

And, you know, that's when we'll

10 00:33:22

we'll do the claim.

10 00:33:22

So that way, they're walking in with

10 00:33:24

me. I always tell them,

10 00:33:26

I know COVID's over.

10 00:33:28

Good time to still wear a hat.

10 00:33:30

Good times. Still wear sunglasses.

10 00:33:32

And no reason why you can't wear a

10 00:33:33

mask. Because, you know,

10 00:33:36

you may still be worried about

10 00:33:37

Covid. So, you know, let's mask

10 00:33:38

up. Let's go in so no one can take

10 00:33:40

your picture. I've had people even

10 00:33:42

wear some wigs because once they get

10 00:33:44

in there, they just have to show

10 00:33:45

their I.D. and they can take this

10 00:33:47

stuff off for one minute, put it

10 00:33:48

back on.

10 00:33:49

I mean, today's day and age,

10 00:33:51

it's so easy to walk through an

10 00:33:53

office and go wash and take a

10 00:33:54

picture of someone. So, you know

10 00:33:56

you're young enough to be looking at

10 00:33:57

someone. So?

10 00:33:59

So I always tell them, you know, do

10 00:34:00

it this way.

10 00:34:01

We'll go in.

10 00:34:03

We'll do the claim.

10 00:34:04

We have a plan in place.

10 00:34:05

We'll follow the plan.

10 00:34:07

We'll do the claim.

10 00:34:08

And then once we've done that claim.

10 00:34:11

And that's why I said, don't sign

10 00:34:12

the back of a ticket. Let's, let's.

10 00:34:14

And many times I see the ticket for

10 00:34:16

the first time the day of

10 00:34:18

the flight. And that's when I put

10 00:34:19

whatever we need to put on the back

10 00:34:20

of the ticket. At that moment when

10 00:34:22

we're inside the lottery office,

10 00:34:23

because I don't want to be

10 00:34:24

responsible for this ticket out of

10 00:34:26

time. And so, you know, after

10 00:34:28

the claims are with them, we sit

10 00:34:29

down, say, okay, claims over

10 00:34:31

with, you don't have to worry about

10 00:34:32

it. Everything's off your shoulders.

10 00:34:35

You can now breathe.

10 00:34:36

You're anonymous.

10 00:34:37

Now, let's start talking about the

10 00:34:39

first option of many

10 00:34:41

times. You got 60 days

10 00:34:43

to do the lump sum or annuity.

10 00:34:45

Let's make sure that we're clear on

10 00:34:46

that. Now that the ticket has been

10 00:34:47

transferred in, you've had a little

10 00:34:49

bit more time to think about it.

10 00:34:51

Let's go over the reasons why we

10 00:34:52

want one or the other.

10 00:34:54

Let's do that.

10 00:34:55

Let's make sure we have the bank

10 00:34:56

account set up so the money can be

10 00:34:57

transferred in properly, because

10 00:34:59

that might take a day or two.

10 00:35:01

Let's get that done.

10 00:35:02

And then let's start thinking about,

10 00:35:04

you know, the early uses of the

10 00:35:05

money, if anything.

10 00:35:07

You know what?

10 00:35:08

What are we going to use the money

10 00:35:09

for?

10 00:35:10

You know, immediately or,

10 00:35:12

or where should we be

10 00:35:14

with our investments?

10 00:35:15

Let's slowly get into the stock

10 00:35:17

market. You don't want to say, hey,

10 00:35:19

I got 100 million.

10 00:35:20

I'm getting in today.

10 00:35:21

100 million is going in on on April

10 00:35:23

11th. Now, you want to

10 00:35:25

slowly get in and you want to put

10 00:35:27

a couple of thousand dollars in each

10 00:35:29

week, get into the market in a slow,

10 00:35:31

slow, methodical way.

10 00:35:32

Follow the plan.

10 00:35:34

You know, all this stuff.

10 00:35:35

So the only thing I ask people right

10 00:35:37

now is, hey, after you call

10 00:35:39

me and say, I need your help,

10 00:35:40

I'll just ask for a copy of the

10 00:35:42

front of the ticket so I can verify

10 00:35:44

that they actually have a winning

10 00:35:46

ticket, because that's happened to

10 00:35:47

me a couple times.

10 00:35:48

The first time it was a couple

10 00:35:50

that thought, you know, they thought

10 00:35:52

they had a winning ticket.

10 00:35:53

And, you know, I, I ruined the

10 00:35:55

vacation because,

10 00:35:57

you know, even on the golf course, I

10 00:35:58

was sending emails and text back and

10 00:36:00

forth between my office and that,

10 00:36:03

on a vacation.

10 00:36:04

And I get back to the office

10 00:36:06

and I contacted the Florida Lottery

10 00:36:08

and I said, hey, I'm representing

10 00:36:09

the clients at one mega I take.

10 00:36:11

It's already been claimed.

10 00:36:12

And so I go, no, no, no.

10 00:36:14

And so I finally asked him,

10 00:36:15

I said, hey, can you bring the

10 00:36:16

ticket in? They came in.

10 00:36:18

And what they had was

10 00:36:20

it was the results of the,

10 00:36:22

of the, of the day before

10 00:36:24

they went to the 7-Eleven and

10 00:36:26

someone said, hey, here's the

10 00:36:27

winning numbers. And they gave him,

10 00:36:28

I gave him the ticket and they

10 00:36:29

thought that was their ticket.

10 00:36:31

So on their numbers matched.

10 00:36:33

And so they actually thought they

10 00:36:35

had a winning ticket. They didn't

10 00:36:36

know I felt so bad because,

10 00:36:38

you know, they thought they had won.

10 00:36:39

It was a young family.

10 00:36:40

And, you know, I spent a bunch of

10 00:36:41

time, I just said, hey, listen, you

10 00:36:43

know, I can't charge you.

10 00:36:45

You know, I feel so bad

10 00:36:47

for you. So that's happened.

10 00:36:49

Those are that's one of the worst

10 00:36:50

stories ever. But, that's why

10 00:36:52

I asked for a copy of the ticket

10 00:36:53

today before I spend a lot of time.

10 00:36:56

That would be heartbreaking.

10 00:36:58

That would be heartbreaking.

10 00:36:59

No.

10 00:36:59

You know, you know, worse

10 00:37:01

than that, believe it or not, is I

10 00:37:03

had a couple of guys in

10 00:37:05

in the state of Arizona that

10 00:37:08

religiously they played the

10 00:37:10

lottery every Friday night.

10 00:37:12

You know, it was their it was their

10 00:37:14

plan.

10 00:37:14

They would go bowling.

10 00:37:16

They were bowling partners.

10 00:37:17

They they went bowling.

10 00:37:18

They had a couple beers that pizza.

10 00:37:20

And they would get their lottery

10 00:37:21

tickets, which were for the next

10 00:37:23

week, which at that time for

10 00:37:25

Powerball was it was Saturday

10 00:37:27

night and Wednesday night, Saturday

10 00:37:29

and Wednesday.

10 00:37:30

So they had the same numbers.

10 00:37:32

They always bought it.

10 00:37:33

Here's my ticket for Saturday and

10 00:37:35

here's my ticket for for Wednesday.

10 00:37:36

So they bought these same numbers.

10 00:37:38

And of course what fate what

10 00:37:40

happened is those same numbers

10 00:37:42

that they always played for all

10 00:37:44

these years.

10 00:37:46

Powerball came out with a

10 00:37:48

Monday drawing for the first time a

10 00:37:50

little over a year ago, and of

10 00:37:51

course, they didn't know about it.

10 00:37:53

It wasn't really advertised, so they

10 00:37:54

didn't buy a ticket for Monday.

10 00:37:56

They'd spotted for Saturday and then

10 00:37:58

and then Wednesday.

10 00:37:59

And of course, their numbers came

10 00:38:01

in, all six of them with

10 00:38:03

the Powerball.

10 00:38:04

It would have been a couple hundred

10 00:38:05

million.

10 00:38:06

And, you know, I had to tell them

10 00:38:08

I go. That's the saddest thing I've

10 00:38:09

ever heard, but there's nothing we

10 00:38:11

can do about it. So you can even

10 00:38:13

buy a ticket for Monday night.

10 00:38:14

So you mentioned a couple these

10 00:38:17

heartbreaking stories.

10 00:38:18

How two people that actually do win

10 00:38:21

big, how do they react

10 00:38:22

when you meet them?

10 00:38:24

Like if you meet them?

10 00:38:25

I don't know if you meet them at a

10 00:38:27

hotel or how do people react

10 00:38:29

when they first meet

10 00:38:31

you and you fly to their location to

10 00:38:33

read go.

10 00:38:34

All a little bit different.

10 00:38:35

I had a client that,

10 00:38:37

I flew up, talk

10 00:38:39

to them.

10 00:38:40

It was only like a, I think a 3 or

10 00:38:42

$4 million when only,

10 00:38:44

everyone would take that.

10 00:38:46

But, you know, one of their flew

10 00:38:48

up there the day before,

10 00:38:50

got up in the morning, was

10 00:38:52

supposed to meet him at 10:00.

10 00:38:54

They showed up right at 10:00.

10 00:38:55

Met him in the lobby.

10 00:38:56

First time I physically met them.

10 00:38:58

We talked on the phone, saw a couple

10 00:38:59

zoom meetings. But first of all, I

10 00:39:01

physically met him, and I said, hey,

10 00:39:02

this particular state,

10 00:39:05

you don't have to go with me.

10 00:39:06

I can do it by myself.

10 00:39:07

I just need your information.

10 00:39:08

So they gave me their IDs.

10 00:39:11

They gave me this ticket, which was

10 00:39:13

unsigned on the back.

10 00:39:15

I mean, 3 or $4 million ticket,

10 00:39:17

unsigned. Bare document gave it

10 00:39:19

to me, and I just said,

10 00:39:21

okay, stay right here.

10 00:39:22

And I said, I'll tell you what.

10 00:39:24

I want you to follow the whole thing

10 00:39:26

without being there.

10 00:39:27

So I gave him the other phone that

10 00:39:29

I have, and, and we,

10 00:39:31

we FaceTimed.

10 00:39:33

So they were holding on to this

10 00:39:33

phone. I walked out, walked

10 00:39:35

couple blocks to lottery office,

10 00:39:37

walked in, signed in, went up

10 00:39:39

to the office, did the claim

10 00:39:41

for them while they were watching me

10 00:39:42

on the phone.

10 00:39:44

Technically I could have just given

10 00:39:45

them a phone and and walked off

10 00:39:47

and and gone and claimed that

10 00:39:49

even though attorneys by

10 00:39:51

nature are supposed to be trusted

10 00:39:53

professionals.

10 00:39:55

And so I put the clients first.

10 00:39:57

Unfortunately, it's been a lot of

10 00:39:58

bad people that have done things

10 00:40:00

that should have done things.

10 00:40:01

Hmhm do they

10 00:40:03

adjust to their new reality?

10 00:40:06

Okay. I mean, as far as you know.

10 00:40:08

It's tough, you know, because they

10 00:40:10

they, as

10 00:40:12

one of them said to me, Curt,

10 00:40:14

I'm learning how to be

10 00:40:16

rich. I'm just learning.

10 00:40:18

You know, I was comfortable before

10 00:40:20

I was retired.

10 00:40:21

I had everything I needed in

10 00:40:23

retirement.

10 00:40:24

And then all of a sudden, I got this

10 00:40:25

big boost.

10 00:40:27

And, you know, I

10 00:40:29

never joined an elite

10 00:40:30

country club, even though I like,

10 00:40:33

I like playing golf.

10 00:40:34

So this particular person

10 00:40:37

got two memberships, you know, has

10 00:40:39

a membership in the every day blue

10 00:40:40

collar, country club.

10 00:40:42

And then he's got one at this elite

10 00:40:44

place.

10 00:40:45

And when his friends come in town,

10 00:40:47

he goes and places the blue collar

10 00:40:48

one. You know, if if it's just

10 00:40:50

him or a special guest, he'll

10 00:40:52

go to the elite one and go play.

10 00:40:54

Yeah. He doesn't care that he pays

10 00:40:56

$30,000 a month in fees

10 00:40:58

because it doesn't mean anything to

10 00:40:59

him.

10 00:41:00

Yeah. If we'll go someplace to

10 00:41:02

a resort where you have to

10 00:41:04

have a caddy. I remember the first

10 00:41:05

time we went to a place where it was

10 00:41:07

caddies only, and so

10 00:41:09

we got done with the round, you

10 00:41:10

know, I reached into my pocket, got

10 00:41:11

a couple hundred dollar bills out

10 00:41:12

and gave the county hills.

10 00:41:13

Hey, what are you doing?

10 00:41:14

And I go, well, tip in the county.

10 00:41:17

Well, how much did you do that?

10 00:41:18

And I go, don't worry about it.

10 00:41:19

Took care of it for both of us.

10 00:41:20

Well, I want to know how much you

10 00:41:21

tip them, because, you know, I want

10 00:41:23

to know. So I told him so.

10 00:41:24

Then he reaches into his pocket and

10 00:41:26

gives the caddy another couple

10 00:41:27

hundred dollars. And I'm like, God,

10 00:41:28

you didn't have to do that.

10 00:41:29

And he goes, well, I wanted to.

10 00:41:30

And so he goes, you know, the money

10 00:41:32

doesn't mean anything to me.

10 00:41:33

I want to help out. So so, you

10 00:41:35

know, the county was overjoyed

10 00:41:37

because he had no idea what was

10 00:41:38

going on.

10 00:41:39

You know, you go out to dinner and,

10 00:41:42

you know, he goes, hey, you know

10 00:41:43

wine better than I do.

10 00:41:44

You order a bottle of wine.

10 00:41:45

So I go, okay, so I order a

10 00:41:47

$300 bottle of wine.

10 00:41:48

So then the question was, well,

10 00:41:51

what do I tip for a $300 bottle?

10 00:41:53

One, I never I never bought a bottle

10 00:41:54

of wine over $50 and,

10 00:41:56

you know, $50.

10 00:41:57

I'll pay this much in tip, but

10 00:41:59

what's the appropriate?

10 00:42:00

I don't want to be I don't want to

10 00:42:02

be too much.

10 00:42:03

Then again, I don't want to be too

10 00:42:04

little. So, you know, they learn,

10 00:42:07

you know, and like with a lot of

10 00:42:08

clients that when these big dollar

10 00:42:10

amounts, you know, the first thing

10 00:42:12

that the first thing I

10 00:42:14

suggest to them is now they're able

10 00:42:16

to do what's called concierge

10 00:42:18

medicine. So instead

10 00:42:20

of waiting at a doctor's office, you

10 00:42:22

pay a fee every year.

10 00:42:24

It's it's like maybe

10 00:42:26

$5,000 a year.

10 00:42:28

I think it's been as high as 7000.

10 00:42:31

Some as low as 3000.

10 00:42:32

How would you pay this fee?

10 00:42:34

And this doctor's available for you

10 00:42:36

24 seven.

10 00:42:37

And so if you're not feeling good,

10 00:42:39

you can go into their office or

10 00:42:41

you can call them on the phone, zoom

10 00:42:43

and tell them what's going on.

10 00:42:45

Yeah. And what they'll do is they'll

10 00:42:46

put a box together for you.

10 00:42:48

And this box has all these different

10 00:42:50

medications and things, and they'll

10 00:42:51

tell you, hey, based on how you're

10 00:42:53

feeling and what you tell me, you

10 00:42:55

may have Covid.

10 00:42:56

So in the box there

10 00:42:58

is a blue box.

10 00:42:59

And in the blue box there's these

10 00:43:01

pills. And so I want you to take

10 00:43:03

two of these and then call me

10 00:43:04

tomorrow. You know so so they

10 00:43:06

give them certain medications

10 00:43:08

that that's prepackaged,

10 00:43:10

that they tell them what to do and

10 00:43:12

they can call up whenever they want.

10 00:43:14

So the concierge medicine is really

10 00:43:15

big. You know, they'll still get

10 00:43:17

their insurance policy, but they

10 00:43:18

have a concierge doctor that will

10 00:43:20

talk to them 24 seven.

10 00:43:22

You have to wait in line.

10 00:43:23

You don't have to wait a week to get

10 00:43:24

in to see them. It's immediate.

10 00:43:26

So that's number one.

10 00:43:27

Number two. Big thing is, is

10 00:43:29

obviously getting the security for

10 00:43:30

their health in place.

10 00:43:31

So that way, whether they're at that

10 00:43:33

house or we buy a new house for

10 00:43:35

buying a new house, I'll set it up

10 00:43:37

in a land trust so no one will know

10 00:43:39

who owns the house, and we'll do it

10 00:43:41

that way. So, yeah, give them some

10 00:43:42

privacy.

10 00:43:43

So, you know, again,

10 00:43:46

they'll they still may own their own

10 00:43:47

house. Don't just say I'm going on a

10 00:43:49

trip. I'm going on vacation, and

10 00:43:50

they'll go to their other house, you

10 00:43:52

know, for the summer, for the

10 00:43:53

winter, whatever it is.

10 00:43:55

You know, the next thing I'll talk

10 00:43:57

to them about is. Hey, you have

10 00:43:58

enough money here that I know

10 00:44:00

you're flying first class, and

10 00:44:02

that's great.

10 00:44:03

Well, how about flying Netjets?

10 00:44:05

How about flying?

10 00:44:05

You know, you

10 00:44:07

know, one of these private,

10 00:44:09

companies where you just go

10 00:44:11

to your local airport, you're on the

10 00:44:13

plane and you're going, I mean, you

10 00:44:15

know, you don't have to wait.

10 00:44:16

You know, you can do your own thing.

10 00:44:18

And so a lot of them will do that,

10 00:44:20

because what I do is after

10 00:44:22

the first year or two, second year,

10 00:44:24

I get the investment first and say,

10 00:44:25

okay, what exactly

10 00:44:27

was our income?

10 00:44:28

What what was the dividends and

10 00:44:30

interest? What did we earn.

10 00:44:32

And give me that number.

10 00:44:33

So we get that number and then I'll

10 00:44:34

say, what do we spend.

10 00:44:36

You know, take all their, all their,

10 00:44:38

you know, all their expenses on

10 00:44:40

their credit card.

10 00:44:41

What was expense?

10 00:44:42

Well, this number.

10 00:44:44

So you made 12.

10 00:44:46

You spent five.

10 00:44:47

That means you got $7 million,

10 00:44:49

that you're not even touching the

10 00:44:50

principal anymore. That we can use

10 00:44:52

for whatever you want to use it.

10 00:44:53

Whether it's making gifts to people,

10 00:44:55

whether it's going to charity,

10 00:44:56

whether it's, whatever you want to

10 00:44:58

do, you know,

10 00:45:00

spend, you know, if you don't spend

10 00:45:01

your kids. Well, so let's, let's do

10 00:45:03

some let's take a trip.

10 00:45:05

Let's enjoy life while you can.

10 00:45:08

You know, with these people that,

10 00:45:09

that when lots of money,

10 00:45:12

they start saying, well, I'm going

10 00:45:14

to do this charitable gift plan.

10 00:45:16

And so they want to talk about a

10 00:45:17

foundation and I'll go,

10 00:45:19

well, you know, foundations are

10 00:45:20

nice, I do them, I set them up for

10 00:45:22

people. But a foundation requires

10 00:45:24

work, you know, requires employees.

10 00:45:26

It requires people doing this.

10 00:45:28

Are you going to do this?

10 00:45:29

No. I'm retired.

10 00:45:30

I'm not doing it well.

10 00:45:31

Are your kids going to do it?

10 00:45:33

I don't think they're qualified.

10 00:45:34

Okay, well, if they're not going to

10 00:45:35

do it, then why are we doing a

10 00:45:37

foundation?

10 00:45:38

Why not set up a a donor

10 00:45:40

advised fund at a community

10 00:45:42

where you have all your stocks

10 00:45:44

that are, you know, increased in

10 00:45:46

value instead of selling them

10 00:45:47

and having capital gains, just

10 00:45:49

transfer a stock holding to your

10 00:45:51

donor advised fund so you get the

10 00:45:53

dollar for dollar, deduction.

10 00:45:55

And then you tell the donor, advised

10 00:45:57

one to pay this to

10 00:45:59

make a distribution to this charity,

10 00:46:01

but do it anonymously so someone

10 00:46:02

doesn't even know where it came

10 00:46:03

from. So all you have to do

10 00:46:05

is make a phone call, call me, and

10 00:46:07

I'll do it for you.

10 00:46:08

You know. So.

10 00:46:10

You know, again, it's it's

10 00:46:13

helping these people accomplish

10 00:46:14

their goals and and

10 00:46:16

doing so in a private,

10 00:46:18

anonymous manner, because I'm

10 00:46:20

convinced that the

10 00:46:22

way to be successful

10 00:46:25

in life, after winning the lottery

10 00:46:26

and to not having any issues

10 00:46:28

is to stay anonymous.

10 00:46:30

If if it gets out that you won,

10 00:46:32

there's going to be so many

10 00:46:33

pressures on you from family,

10 00:46:35

from friends, from people

10 00:46:38

that just know of you, that

10 00:46:39

want to talk to you, that want to

10 00:46:41

make a request. I get requests all

10 00:46:42

the time from my clients for for

10 00:46:44

donations, you know?

10 00:46:46

I'm a veteran.

10 00:46:48

I lost my job.

10 00:46:49

I got a family.

10 00:46:50

I need some help.

10 00:46:51

I need I need someone to put money

10 00:46:53

into my my business.

10 00:46:55

You know, can you get one of your

10 00:46:56

clients to to give me $10

10 00:46:58

million or.

10 00:46:59

I'm sorry, $10,000 so I can,

10 00:47:02

you know, keep my business afloat?

10 00:47:03

You know, it's hard to help people.

10 00:47:06

And I've gotten messages from

10 00:47:07

clients, from from

10 00:47:09

people that are trying to meet

10 00:47:11

with my clients that say,

10 00:47:13

if I don't get this money, I'm going

10 00:47:15

to kill myself.

10 00:47:16

You know, I mean, how do you say no

10 00:47:18

to those people? It's hard, but you

10 00:47:19

have to. And so the the best

10 00:47:21

way to do it is to not even let them

10 00:47:23

know that you exist.

10 00:47:24

And people do come

10 00:47:26

out of the woodwork for

10 00:47:28

some lottery winners.

10 00:47:30

But if you claim it anonymously,

10 00:47:33

do they, to your knowledge, do they

10 00:47:35

still some people at least deal

10 00:47:37

with, that with

10 00:47:40

friends or family?

10 00:47:41

If the word gets around

10 00:47:43

or how do they does it change

10 00:47:44

relationships or do you?

10 00:47:46

You know, obviously obviously you

10 00:47:47

have to be careful who you tell and

10 00:47:48

how you tell. You know, there's some

10 00:47:50

cases out there where, you know,

10 00:47:52

there were some divorces and,

10 00:47:54

and so, you know, the,

10 00:47:57

the, you know, to protect

10 00:47:59

the child, the family

10 00:48:01

said that they, that they needed

10 00:48:03

to tell the mother of the child who

10 00:48:05

was divorcing their son

10 00:48:06

that, that there was money,

10 00:48:09

that they were going to set up.

10 00:48:10

And so they, the the mother signed

10 00:48:12

a non-disclosure agreement.

10 00:48:13

And then, of course, she tell

10 00:48:15

someone in her family, you tell

10 00:48:16

someone else, you

10 00:48:18

know, turns into litigation.

10 00:48:20

You know, all you can do is if you

10 00:48:22

tell someone trying to get

10 00:48:24

a non-disclosure agreement put in

10 00:48:25

place, at least you have something

10 00:48:27

to hang your hat on at that time,

10 00:48:30

there's always a chance that it gets

10 00:48:31

up. And, so that's

10 00:48:33

why you have to have these other,

10 00:48:35

other, like, side

10 00:48:37

road plants just in case, have that

10 00:48:38

burner phone have have things

10 00:48:40

available so that if you have to

10 00:48:41

leave, you know, you can leave

10 00:48:43

quickly.

10 00:48:44

You know, whatever, whatever's

10 00:48:45

necessary. Sometimes, you know,

10 00:48:48

that's like plans, but still it

10 00:48:49

happens and you need to leave the

10 00:48:51

area.

10 00:48:52

That that makes sense and do

10 00:48:54

quite a few lottery winners move,

10 00:48:56

you know, after they win.

10 00:48:58

Well, I try to tell them not to,

10 00:49:00

because that would bring because,

10 00:49:02

you know, if it says,

10 00:49:04

you know, someone in

10 00:49:06

in, you know, this, this city,

10 00:49:08

won the lottery and this little town

10 00:49:10

won the lottery, and everyone's

10 00:49:12

looking around for, you know, who

10 00:49:14

was that? Who got the new car, who

10 00:49:15

got this? You know, if all of a

10 00:49:17

sudden you pack up and leave, you

10 00:49:19

know, that's a different story.

10 00:49:20

But if you keep your house

10 00:49:23

and you just go out, you said, hey,

10 00:49:24

listen, I've retired.

10 00:49:25

I'm gonna spend half the year here,

10 00:49:27

and half the people understand that.

10 00:49:29

You know, there was a old

10 00:49:30

movie a long time ago.

10 00:49:32

And it was humorous.

10 00:49:33

It was called Wacky Ned Devine,

10 00:49:36

and it was, about winning

10 00:49:38

the, the Irish Sweepstakes.

10 00:49:40

And so these two guys,

10 00:49:42

we're trying to find out who

10 00:49:44

who was the person that won

10 00:49:46

the little town.

10 00:49:47

And so they threw a party,

10 00:49:49

and then they were analyzing who

10 00:49:51

didn't show up to the party,

10 00:49:53

or what changed them in the little

10 00:49:54

town and found out it was a guy

10 00:49:57

who never showed up to anything

10 00:49:58

after they started this whole

10 00:49:59

process.

10 00:50:00

And they went to his house and

10 00:50:02

he was in front of the TV in his

10 00:50:03

chair holding the ticket.

10 00:50:05

And the TV was all or, you know,

10 00:50:07

was off base, or they were

10 00:50:08

scratching.

10 00:50:09

And he realized that they realized

10 00:50:11

he had a heart attack watching,

10 00:50:12

watching the numbers.

10 00:50:14

And so then they took the the ticket

10 00:50:16

and they tried to pretend they

10 00:50:18

were him to claim the money.

10 00:50:19

So, it's a funny, funny show

10 00:50:21

to watch. But again,

10 00:50:23

that's what people do.

10 00:50:24

People in small towns

10 00:50:26

want to know who was it?

10 00:50:27

That one in our small little town,

10 00:50:29

you know, you they have these press

10 00:50:31

releases now with these big dollar

10 00:50:33

amounts. You see them.

10 00:50:33

And right next thing, the whole

10 00:50:35

lottery office is there at this

10 00:50:37

little grocery store, this little

10 00:50:38

7-Eleven or gas station,

10 00:50:40

and they're doing this big party,

10 00:50:41

and they give $100,000 check to the

10 00:50:43

owner of the station or the grocery

10 00:50:45

store. You gotta match that stuff

10 00:50:46

up, because we've had some

10 00:50:47

litigation in that area on

10 00:50:49

California where, you know,

10 00:50:51

the times were not correct,

10 00:50:53

near both people going to the store,

10 00:50:55

both people claiming to own it, and

10 00:50:57

the ticket gets owned by the one

10 00:50:58

person. So, you know,

10 00:51:01

it's it's crazy.

10 00:51:02

You know, money makes people funny.

10 00:51:04

I can't think of a better person to

10 00:51:05

win sometimes than some of my

10 00:51:07

clients that have won in listening

10 00:51:09

to. Their stories, and

10 00:51:11

their relationships, people

10 00:51:13

who were.

10 00:51:14

Childhood sweethearts,

10 00:51:16

that, you know, were not married

10 00:51:17

before.

10 00:51:18

And now the money allows them to get

10 00:51:20

married because, you know, they were

10 00:51:22

they were separate.

10 00:51:23

They were childhood sweethearts, but

10 00:51:25

one got married somewhere else and

10 00:51:26

got divorced and now is together.

10 00:51:28

But they're getting alimony so they

10 00:51:30

can't get married.

10 00:51:31

But now they're able to go get

10 00:51:33

married because they all morning.

10 00:51:34

Money doesn't mean anything to them

10 00:51:35

because they got this lottery money.

10 00:51:37

So some of these stories that you

10 00:51:39

you hear about and you

10 00:51:40

become part of their family, you're

10 00:51:42

just so happy for it.

10 00:51:43

And, and so, yeah,

10 00:51:45

I got some of that. I got some of

10 00:51:47

the best clients, if not the best

10 00:51:48

clients in the whole world when I

10 00:51:50

look at it.

10 00:51:51

And, so I'm happy to do what I do

10 00:51:53

for a living.

10 00:51:54

That's wonderful.

10 00:51:55

And what a unique niche.

10 00:51:58

You have you

10 00:52:00

mentioned that some of the larger

10 00:52:01

clients, that some

10 00:52:03

of them feels like family,

10 00:52:05

that you're really close to them.

10 00:52:07

Do you find that people

10 00:52:10

have a difficult time trusting

10 00:52:12

attorneys? Because on this

10 00:52:14

podcast, we get comments

10 00:52:16

from some people that

10 00:52:18

are skeptical because

10 00:52:20

they've never, you know, had that

10 00:52:22

kind of money and they don't know

10 00:52:24

what to do with it. And they see the

10 00:52:25

horror stories and media.

10 00:52:27

So how do you find

10 00:52:29

what do you tell someone that's

10 00:52:30

skeptical of having someone help

10 00:52:31

them behind the scenes, or to find

10 00:52:33

the right person?

10 00:52:34

You know, it used to be

10 00:52:37

if you were a CPA, you were held to

10 00:52:38

this highest standard in the world.

10 00:52:40

And then we went through a couple of

10 00:52:41

years there in the 80s

10 00:52:43

where, you know, CPAs

10 00:52:45

were doctoring books and,

10 00:52:47

you know, so CPAs fell

10 00:52:49

and then, you know, lawyers maybe

10 00:52:51

got a step up. But, you know,

10 00:52:53

I tell people you should do your due

10 00:52:55

diligence. First of all, yeah, you

10 00:52:56

shouldn't just be hiring me just

10 00:52:57

because, you know, you

10 00:52:59

know, I'm out there, because there's

10 00:53:01

a lot of attorneys out there.

10 00:53:02

Again, the question is, who's got

10 00:53:04

the experience?

10 00:53:05

Yeah. I tell people, I would love

10 00:53:07

for you to talk to some of my

10 00:53:08

clients. The problem is no

10 00:53:10

one knows who my clients are, and

10 00:53:11

that's by design.

10 00:53:12

So if you go to my website

10 00:53:14

and you look at it,

10 00:53:16

it'll say, if you want to look at

10 00:53:18

past winners, you know, click here.

10 00:53:20

And you go to that and it says,

10 00:53:23

you know, they're not disclosed.

10 00:53:25

Sorry. But you know, that's all

10 00:53:27

by by intentional,

10 00:53:29

process on my part.

10 00:53:30

You know, there's a couple of bad

10 00:53:31

eggs all the time.

10 00:53:32

There was a guy in New York that

10 00:53:33

did, I believe,

10 00:53:35

in his career.

10 00:53:36

He probably did some really good

10 00:53:38

things for clients.

10 00:53:39

And then the problem was, he

10 00:53:41

stepped out of being a lawyer, and

10 00:53:43

he said, hey, I'm watching

10 00:53:45

these financial people.

10 00:53:46

And when they come in, they're

10 00:53:48

making 20, $30,000

10 00:53:51

a month, you know, handling the

10 00:53:52

investments. I can do that.

10 00:53:54

I can do better for the clients.

10 00:53:55

So he got involved in in an

10 00:53:57

area that was outside of his

10 00:53:59

training.

10 00:54:00

And when he did that, he got

10 00:54:01

involved with organized crime.

10 00:54:03

And, you know, the premise was

10 00:54:06

I could help this little lady

10 00:54:07

get 20% return on her

10 00:54:09

million on $1 billion.

10 00:54:11

Well, a little lady does

10 00:54:13

not need a 20% return on $1

10 00:54:15

billion. You know, she couldn't even

10 00:54:16

spend $1 billion if she wanted to,

10 00:54:19

you know? So stay in your lane,

10 00:54:21

you know, do what you do best.

10 00:54:23

You know, I just happen to have the

10 00:54:24

background as a CPA and

10 00:54:26

an attorney and a trust in the

10 00:54:27

state's attorney and board

10 00:54:28

certification, where

10 00:54:30

I have lots of things to lose.

10 00:54:32

So all those disciplines come

10 00:54:34

together to keep that circle so

10 00:54:36

small during the initial stages that

10 00:54:38

I don't need anyone else to help me.

10 00:54:39

If there's someone there that brings

10 00:54:41

me in, sure, I'll work with them.

10 00:54:43

But I want to be in control of

10 00:54:45

everything because I know what to do

10 00:54:46

with the individual states.

10 00:54:47

Like, I got a call in Pennsylvania

10 00:54:48

one time for $500 million,

10 00:54:51

win.

10 00:54:52

And it was from a law firm,

10 00:54:54

and they said, hey, we want to reach

10 00:54:55

out to you. And I go, okay, so

10 00:54:57

we are we have a zoom meeting with

10 00:54:59

the client and the client's CPA.

10 00:55:01

And, you know, I said, well,

10 00:55:03

this is what I would suggest in

10 00:55:04

Pennsylvania based on their law.

10 00:55:06

And the CPA stood up and goes,

10 00:55:08

that's not going to work, because,

10 00:55:09

you know, you can't claim in a trust

10 00:55:11

disclosing the trust.

10 00:55:12

As I said, yeah, I read that and

10 00:55:14

that's fine. But it's not just going

10 00:55:15

to be your typical trust.

10 00:55:16

It's going to be a trust with some

10 00:55:18

lawyers in it with LLCs.

10 00:55:20

And I go as members and I go,

10 00:55:22

I go, we're going to we're going to

10 00:55:23

mix it up. They're not going to

10 00:55:24

know. We walked, we go into

10 00:55:26

the office over there.

10 00:55:27

Eventually the attorney and myself

10 00:55:29

walk in. The client didn't even go

10 00:55:31

and he stayed out in the car.

10 00:55:32

We went in, took care of business,

10 00:55:33

came out and, and,

10 00:55:35

you know, gave the client the check.

10 00:55:37

And he was happy as could be.

10 00:55:38

He didn't even have to walk inside.

10 00:55:39

We did all the work for him.

10 00:55:41

And, you know, that CPA looked

10 00:55:43

at me and said, never thought you

10 00:55:44

could do that. And I go, well, you

10 00:55:45

know, that's why everyone brings me

10 00:55:47

in. So whether I'm called

10 00:55:49

by the client to do this stuff or

10 00:55:51

whether it's another law firm that

10 00:55:52

brings me in, I'm okay.

10 00:55:54

As long as we can take care of that

10 00:55:55

client. That's all I'm interested

10 00:55:57

in. I don't care if there's someone

10 00:55:58

else there with me.

10 00:55:59

If that's what. That's what the

10 00:56:00

client wants. If the client wants

10 00:56:02

their friend as the attorney to walk

10 00:56:04

in with me or they're professional,

10 00:56:06

I'm good with that.

10 00:56:07

It's not about an ego.

10 00:56:08

It's about helping.

10 00:56:09

And doing the right thing for them.

10 00:56:11

And, you know, I'm just

10 00:56:13

I'm just happy to have the client

10 00:56:14

and have the experience.

10 00:56:16

And, so, you know, it's

10 00:56:17

it's, everyone's

10 00:56:19

a little bit different.

10 00:56:21

Their methodology is different, as I

10 00:56:22

said, that attorney.

10 00:56:24

You know, I know he was doing good

10 00:56:25

work, but he got involved with the

10 00:56:27

wrong people, and and you

10 00:56:29

can't cross that line.

10 00:56:30

And, you know, there's a lot of

10 00:56:32

attorneys out there that do this

10 00:56:33

work. Unfortunately, a lot of them

10 00:56:35

are like personal injury attorneys.

10 00:56:38

So they're looking at it as

10 00:56:40

like an injury, and it's not

10 00:56:42

it's it's sudden wealth,

10 00:56:44

but sudden wealth through

10 00:56:46

through a transaction

10 00:56:48

that there some tax and you have to

10 00:56:50

put in, you know, the planning

10 00:56:52

with future generations

10 00:56:54

to make sure that you we all have

10 00:56:55

this exemption out there right now

10 00:56:57

worth $13 million.

10 00:56:59

You know, if we use that $13

10 00:57:01

million properly, $13 million

10 00:57:03

can be used for children and

10 00:57:05

grandchildren. So there's no second

10 00:57:07

tax.

10 00:57:08

And so you want the right attorney

10 00:57:09

that has the experience to help you

10 00:57:11

with the right, you know, all these

10 00:57:13

disciplines that need to be done,

10 00:57:14

all these issues that need to be

10 00:57:16

dealt with.

10 00:57:17

In in that 13 million

10 00:57:19

exemption.

10 00:57:20

How does that mean you

10 00:57:21

can literally give away.

10 00:57:24

So not taxed on 13 million.

10 00:57:26

So back in the early mid

10 00:57:28

80s, 1980s

10 00:57:30

the exemption amount at that time

10 00:57:32

was $600,000.

10 00:57:33

And the first came out.

10 00:57:34

Then after a couple of years, well,

10 00:57:36

I was in law school and all that, it

10 00:57:38

increased a little bit each year and

10 00:57:40

following going up to about $1

10 00:57:41

million in 1990, whatever it was.

10 00:57:43

And then it it

10 00:57:45

suddenly started going together,

10 00:57:47

started increasing a little bit

10 00:57:48

more, and it got to,

10 00:57:50

$5 million.

10 00:57:52

And then in one year, 2010,

10 00:57:54

which coincidentally, was the year

10 00:57:55

that Steinbrenner passed away, the

10 00:57:57

owner of the Yankees, there was no

10 00:57:59

estate gift or transfer tax.

10 00:58:01

So it was an unlimited amount of a

10 00:58:02

wealth that you could transfer.

10 00:58:04

So when Mr. Steinbrenner died,

10 00:58:06

he transferred the whole Yankees

10 00:58:07

organization to his family, and

10 00:58:09

there was no transfer tax unlimited.

10 00:58:12

Well, right after that, the

10 00:58:13

exemption came back into place at $5

10 00:58:15

million. And it was there for a

10 00:58:16

little bit of time.

10 00:58:17

And then, you know,

10 00:58:20

I don't want to get politically

10 00:58:21

here, but when Trump took office, he

10 00:58:23

doubled all the exemptions.

10 00:58:25

So they went up to to $10 million,

10 00:58:27

and then they were still increased

10 00:58:28

for inflation. So right now, today

10 00:58:30

in 2024, it's a little

10 00:58:32

over $13 million that any one of

10 00:58:34

us can give away without any

10 00:58:36

transfer tax.

10 00:58:37

No gift tax, no no death

10 00:58:39

tax if we die.

10 00:58:40

So we have the ability to leave 13

10 00:58:42

million.

10 00:58:43

What's going to happen, though,

10 00:58:45

is in another year, in order for

10 00:58:47

Congress to pay for this stuff, they

10 00:58:49

have to put a sunset provision.

10 00:58:51

And so at the end of 2025,

10 00:58:53

it's going to go back down to $5

10 00:58:55

million. So but right now it's 13.

10 00:58:58

So you have 13 million

10 00:59:00

I have 13 million.

10 00:59:01

And we can use it.

10 00:59:04

But if we use it up, but by making

10 00:59:05

a gift to a family member then

10 00:59:07

we've used it. So I would rather

10 00:59:09

have that family member be part

10 00:59:11

of the winning group.

10 00:59:12

Okay. Like the group

10 00:59:14

ticket or part of the trust

10 00:59:17

part of the LLC holding the

10 00:59:18

fractional interest so they don't

10 00:59:20

have. So dad can say, hey,

10 00:59:22

I want to take care of my, my, my

10 00:59:24

four kids.

10 00:59:25

So dad claims the ticket and

10 00:59:27

he's got 60% in

10 00:59:29

each one of his four kids each get

10 00:59:30

10% each.

10 00:59:31

So that's 100%.

10 00:59:32

So we filed the claim that

10 00:59:34

way. They had 60 each

10 00:59:36

kid 10%, and we go in.

10 00:59:38

So now the kids pay their tax on

10 00:59:40

their 10% and then they

10 00:59:42

since tax on the 60%.

10 00:59:44

But dad now still has the whole 13

10 00:59:46

million that he can use.

10 00:59:47

So instead of using it to transfer

10 00:59:49

to his kids, he can help out a

10 00:59:50

brother.

10 00:59:51

He can use up.

10 00:59:52

He can do some generation skipping

10 00:59:54

planning for his grandchildren,

10 00:59:55

great grandchildren.

10 00:59:56

So there's no second tax on it.

10 00:59:58

So there's a lot of a lot of

10 01:00:00

planning that goes into this

10 01:00:02

that we want to take advantage of.

10 01:00:03

And that's why I keep saying I

10 01:00:05

use a forward looking method

10 01:00:07

for doing this.

10 01:00:08

And this is where a lot of

10 01:00:10

attorneys, they're just doing it for

10 01:00:12

the clay.

10 01:00:13

And you know, that's fine.

10 01:00:15

But their clients afterwards,

10 01:00:17

like I had a client.

10 01:00:18

Well, it turned out it wasn't my

10 01:00:20

client.

10 01:00:22

I met with the person.

10 01:00:23

I met with him in my office.

10 01:00:25

We talked and I made several

10 01:00:27

suggestions to them, and they said,

10 01:00:29

okay, I'll get back to you.

10 01:00:31

And then they call me and said,

10 01:00:32

well, we decided to go with this big

10 01:00:33

law firm, and they're planning.

10 01:00:36

And they claimed the ticket in a

10 01:00:38

and a Delaware LLC.

10 01:00:40

And I said, well, I call

10 01:00:41

the client up. I go, listen, I saw

10 01:00:43

that you claim the ticket and

10 01:00:44

Delaware LLC.

10 01:00:45

Congratulations, I said, however,

10 01:00:47

I never would have used the Delaware

10 01:00:49

LLC, and we talked about

10 01:00:51

it at the meeting. And I want you to

10 01:00:52

know that we discussed it and I said

10 01:00:54

I didn't like it, even though you

10 01:00:55

like the concept of hearing

10 01:00:57

about a Delaware LLC or a Wyoming

10 01:01:00

LLC.

10 01:01:01

Because you thought that that gave

10 01:01:02

you a little bit more protection,

10 01:01:04

but you created an entity

10 01:01:06

that has that's based in

10 01:01:08

a state that. US income taxes.

10 01:01:09

Delaware.

10 01:01:10

So when you claimed in Florida,

10 01:01:12

you know there's no Florida tax.

10 01:01:14

But since it's a Delaware entity

10 01:01:16

doing business in Florida has to pay

10 01:01:17

Delaware tax.

10 01:01:19

So subjected this big ticket

10 01:01:21

to Delaware income tax.

10 01:01:23

I just want you to be aware of it.

10 01:01:25

And so you probably

10 01:01:27

voluntarily paid $30

10 01:01:29

million for no reason.

10 01:01:30

You know, but I'm just telling you,

10 01:01:32

I never would have done that.

10 01:01:34

And I want to make sure, you know,

10 01:01:35

that I didn't discuss that with you

10 01:01:37

at the time.

10 01:01:38

And I told you not to do it that

10 01:01:39

way. And, if you need

10 01:01:41

help in future, give me a call, you

10 01:01:43

know, so we'll see what happens

10 01:01:44

there.

10 01:01:45

For people that are watching this or

10 01:01:47

listening to this, that play the

10 01:01:49

lottery. We have some people that

10 01:01:50

play in what are called pools,

10 01:01:52

groups of people that actually play.

10 01:01:55

So do you have

10 01:01:57

should they have rules or

10 01:01:59

should they have something

10 01:02:01

decided upon?

10 01:02:02

Like do they think?

10 01:02:04

I always tell people when they talk

10 01:02:06

about a lottery pool.

10 01:02:08

Pools are fun.

10 01:02:09

I mean, you can have a good time at

10 01:02:10

a pool, but a pool always has a deep

10 01:02:12

end. And in the deep end there's

10 01:02:14

risk. And so,

10 01:02:16

you know, you gotta look at a

10 01:02:17

lottery pool being the same thing.

10 01:02:19

So the concern I always

10 01:02:21

have a lottery pools is,

10 01:02:23

is what if someone got left out and

10 01:02:25

there's there are.

10 01:02:27

Several cases out there, you can

10 01:02:29

research where there was always

10 01:02:31

someone that got left out, and so

10 01:02:33

they end up filing an objection

10 01:02:35

filed with the state and the states.

10 01:02:37

I say, wait a minute until this gets

10 01:02:39

resolved. We're not paying anyone

10 01:02:40

because we don't know who we're

10 01:02:41

supposed to be paying.

10 01:02:42

So it drags on and on

10 01:02:44

and on, and eventually they

10 01:02:46

end up, you know, after after

10 01:02:49

hard feelings and things

10 01:02:51

being said, they eventually work

10 01:02:53

the person into the agreement and

10 01:02:55

give them something.

10 01:02:56

But everyone, everyone

10 01:02:59

had to wait a long time for it.

10 01:03:02

The problem that I have is, is

10 01:03:04

people don't do the pools the right

10 01:03:05

way. So there should be

10 01:03:07

a set of rules.

10 01:03:08

And the first thing is, is that

10 01:03:11

if we're all putting money in.

10 01:03:14

If you're not there.

10 01:03:16

Do you have a surrogate that has the

10 01:03:17

responsibility to put money in for

10 01:03:19

you because you know or

10 01:03:21

you're not there? So, you know,

10 01:03:23

let's say everyone put in 20 bucks

10 01:03:25

and there's, you know, five

10 01:03:27

people and then all put in 20 bucks,

10 01:03:29

we have a hundred bucks.

10 01:03:30

So we go to the store and we buy

10 01:03:31

$100 with lottery tickets.

10 01:03:33

And, you know, a couple of them

10 01:03:35

won a little bit of money.

10 01:03:36

We didn't win the jackpot.

10 01:03:37

But now we have, we have we

10 01:03:39

have $18 of winnings.

10 01:03:42

So what happens at $18, $18?

10 01:03:44

I could go out to everyone so they

10 01:03:45

all get their equal share.

10 01:03:46

Why did you continue to buy tickets

10 01:03:48

with at $18 and everyone else puts

10 01:03:50

in $20 again, and

10 01:03:52

then everyone puts in $20 again?

10 01:03:53

No, you got $36 and $40.

10 01:03:56

And what happens to this?

10 01:03:58

Is it a new lottery pool every time

10 01:03:59

you do this? Or is it different?

10 01:04:02

If someone doesn't show up, are they

10 01:04:04

included automatically?

10 01:04:05

Is there a surrogate that puts in

10 01:04:06

for them?

10 01:04:08

What if they if they were sick or

10 01:04:10

they were disabled for a while and

10 01:04:11

they were out of the office for a

10 01:04:12

couple of weeks on vacation

10 01:04:14

and the surrogate forgot to put it,

10 01:04:16

you know, so there's so

10 01:04:18

many. I just don't like lottery

10 01:04:20

pools. But if you're going to do it,

10 01:04:21

make sure it's in writing.

10 01:04:23

Make sure everyone has a copy of the

10 01:04:25

ticket ahead of time so that,

10 01:04:26

you know, because there was a case

10 01:04:27

as well where a lady

10 01:04:30

lady bought tickets for the group

10 01:04:32

like she was supposed to when she

10 01:04:33

bought her own tickets.

10 01:04:34

And then there was a

10 01:04:36

drawing and she said,

10 01:04:38

hey, one of the tickets won, she

10 01:04:39

said. But it wasn't part of the

10 01:04:40

group's tickets. It was my ticket.

10 01:04:42

And you know, no one knew.

10 01:04:44

She went out, bought tickets for

10 01:04:46

herself, you know, and you

10 01:04:48

need to make sure everyone has a

10 01:04:49

copy of the ticket and

10 01:04:51

they're all in.

10 01:04:52

And, you know, I just don't like

10 01:04:54

pools for that reason.

10 01:04:56

They have worked for some people.

10 01:04:59

But again, it's really a concern

10 01:05:01

as to if it goes on

10 01:05:03

and on and on.

10 01:05:04

What do you do with that money

10 01:05:05

that's been one. Is it been

10 01:05:07

disseminated or is it buying

10 01:05:08

more tickets?

10 01:05:10

And you have to have a rule that

10 01:05:11

says if you're not physically

10 01:05:13

in and you didn't you didn't do

10 01:05:15

something by 5:00 that day,

10 01:05:17

you're out, you know.

10 01:05:18

So it's very clear.

10 01:05:20

Yeah, that that

10 01:05:22

makes complete sense.

10 01:05:24

And, you know, we see these

10 01:05:26

major lottery jackpots.

10 01:05:28

Most people will wait until,

10 01:05:30

you know, weeks or months, sometimes

10 01:05:33

right before the deadline to claim

10 01:05:34

the prize.

10 01:05:36

But once in a while, and there was

10 01:05:37

just one in Oregon once

10 01:05:39

in a while, it happens very quickly,

10 01:05:41

within just a couple of days

10 01:05:44

where someone will go into the

10 01:05:45

lottery office right away with the

10 01:05:47

winning ticket, even if it's worth

10 01:05:49

hundreds of millions potentially.

10 01:05:51

So is that theoretically

10 01:05:53

time to get your ducks in a row, or

10 01:05:56

does it take.

10 01:05:57

What are your thoughts on that?

10 01:05:59

I think you know, to

10 01:06:01

if you win $1 million, you can go in

10 01:06:03

right away. It's not a big deal.

10 01:06:04

You win $100 million or $1 billion.

10 01:06:07

I really think to

10 01:06:09

do it the right way,

10 01:06:11

it takes at least two weeks.

10 01:06:13

Because you really have to be

10 01:06:13

talking to the client again,

10 01:06:16

find out where they're going to be.

10 01:06:17

Unless they live in this little

10 01:06:18

cocoon by themselves.

10 01:06:20

They don't have any friends.

10 01:06:21

They don't have any family.

10 01:06:23

You know, you really have

10 01:06:25

to take a look at the state law,

10 01:06:28

find out what you can and can't do.

10 01:06:30

Talk to the person about friends and

10 01:06:31

family and who they would want to

10 01:06:33

help. Again, they still have $13

10 01:06:35

million that they could have, that

10 01:06:36

they could have helped someone out

10 01:06:38

with who they want to do it with

10 01:06:39

their own tax dollars.

10 01:06:40

What do they want to do it by

10 01:06:42

spreading this wealth over family

10 01:06:43

members. So,

10 01:06:45

anyone that goes in that quickly,

10 01:06:48

what that tells me is that

10 01:06:50

they're they're just not a good

10 01:06:52

planner.

10 01:06:53

And if they're going to do that that

10 01:06:55

quickly, they're probably going to

10 01:06:56

be taken advantage of at some time

10 01:06:58

down the road because they're not

10 01:07:00

putting any time or effort into

10 01:07:02

into the process.

10 01:07:03

And if you don't plan,

10 01:07:05

appropriately, like

10 01:07:07

like I had a client, that one,

10 01:07:10

he called me up and said, hey, I

10 01:07:12

want a scratch off.

10 01:07:13

I go, great, how much is going to

10 01:07:14

cost? 5 million.

10 01:07:15

I go, that's fantastic.

10 01:07:16

Congratulations.

10 01:07:17

He calls me like December,

10 01:07:19

December 7th or something like that.

10 01:07:21

And I go, okay.