Stars on Sports Intro: It's time for Stars on Sports! A podcast-radio show dedicated to sharing stories about our athletic program at Lansing Community College. LCC athletics has a strong tradition. 23 national championship wins! Over 170 All-Americans! 19 MCCAA All Sports trophies! Stars on Sports will introduce you to individuals that have contributed to our program success and give you the backstory on what it takes to develop it. We'll also dive into and break down the topics and issues facing athletic departments across the nation and right here at LCC. This is Stars on Sports!

Hello and welcome to another episode of Thars on Sports. I am joined by our assistant AD baseball coach, Steven Cutter. And today Steven will be talking, talking about lovable losers, which is kind of ironic because of where we're at in our academic year and even listening to our intro, we're gonna have to change that because we have just earned our 24th national championship. So I don't know why that topic had been a hot topic in our office over the last week, but it seems like we've been talking about lovable loser. Well, that too. Both. But it's the postseason. But for us, lovable losers isn't what our faul has been like, but it does seem to be a topic in our athletic office. And we'll go into further. But as I mentioned, we're coming off our men's team just winning the national championship team. Our women's team is headed to Iowa for their first ever national volleyball appearance. Our volleyball team, yes. And you know, our softball and baseball teams have had a great fall, competing at a high level against other strong two and four year institutions. So it's the exact opposite of our office. Lovable losing. But for some reason,

Everybody loves a

good underdog story, right?

That's right.

I think that's where it comes from partly.

And we haven't been the underdog. You know, we might be the underdog and going into some of the postseason play, but we usually have a target on our back. Listening to our intro, the number of national championship, the number of all sports trophies, the success we've just talked about, even this fall. And there's even. We feel they're the bias towards winners. People don't root for them or even against them. That there is this natural societal thing rooting for underdogs or lovable losers.

And there's definitely a cost to winning. And winning is a choice.

It is. And a difficult choice for most. That's why it is, you know, tough to achieve or consistently achieve. But you know, when you look at movies which will Be a whole nother podcast of ours or even other sports teams in the pro level. The. The team that people like are ones that have had a history of losing. And even I'm guilty of it.

How about the Detroit Lions having fan bases in. In Los Angeles and all these other places. Right. I mean, perfect. Huge crowds. And yeah, it's because they haven't been good for a long time.

Yep. And the lion, the, the. You know, when I, I looked this up in preparing. The Chicago Cubs are one that considered to be a lovable loser. When you look at T. Brown and you know, and even the Charlie Brown example, it's the field goal, it's a sport example where they pull the ball away from him. Lucy does any. And he misses the kick. Even me, if I don't have a team involved, like watching postseason MLB baseball, I root for the team that hasn't won the most.

Think about like the NCAA men's basketball tournament and how much people love the 512 seed matchups and, and the upsets and. What do they call them? Cinderellas.

Cinderella. Yeah. Yeah. And how big it is for those institutions that go on that kind of run. Loyola, Chicago a couple years ago, Florida Atlantic, who I just saw yesterday, is now ranked this year. They made a Cinderella run to the Final Four last year and it's ranked this year. I had a student athlete reach out to me recently and ask what kind of impact did that have on a college when you have that kind of run? And there's a lot of data out there that's significant increased applications for significant increase in merchandise selling.

We see it here.

Yes, we do. And that's what she was asking about, the increased media coverage. So that underdog story, or even that story where you do make a long run, is very positive for your institution. Last spring, when both our baseball and softball team made the College World Series, the media jumped on it and was covering both every day. Last week, our volleyball and cross country teams were getting articles which had been tougher to do with fall in this area in high school and Michigan State coverage. So it does success really does help and help with the media coverage and help with recruiting, as we've talked about before. But it still intrigues me why our society then so much rallied behind that. That underdog, that Cinderella, that. That loser. Is it back to your point earlier about being jealous or they're comfortable being average?

I don't know. I don't know that there's enough studies to really understand why America pulls for the underdog all the time. But in the same way it's, it's not, it's interesting to look at the really successful organizations and doesn't really matter what sport it is, but you look at them and there's. They're very much disliked. And you know, you can. We were talking about college basketball earlier and you think about like a program like Duke or somebody like that and how many people just despise a program like that. And the same thing happens in baseball with somebody like the New York Yankees and it continues in football with programs like the New England Patriots when they had their long run. You know, how many people didn't like the Patriots. And it happens in football, in college football with Alabama and it just, it just keeps going.

Right. I didn't even think of that.

But there is success and then that people just don't like. It's too much. Too much.

Yeah, you're right. Those are perfect examples of, of society hating team that have been successful on a consistent basis. And how, you know, those teams that are successful will call them America's team, but the rest of America is rooting against them.

Dallas Cowboys.

Yeah, Cowboys. That because they were successful, they won championships. So and you know, that's our goal at lcc to win championships in the classroom and on the, on the playing field. And as you and I have talked, I try and like Jeff Gordon. Jeff Gordon, nascar, Dale Earnhardt. No. Interesting. Yeah, every sport has one and it's usually that one that has consistently won and how much other people rally against them and even the media plays into that, whether their own media supports them or the rest of the media tried to gang up on them and bring them down. I mean, you see, you know, allegations or you know, just excuses or other things that, why they do and even on the other side of that of losing, why are they losing? Why do we like losers? Are they doing what they should to be successful? And if not, why are we rooting for them? You know, the bad luck is it. Again, reading why some people have difficult and I've been in districts where they've struggled to succeed and some of it's impulsive decision or using the get rich quick model and not, you know, trying to sustain something over time because you're desperate, you, you've lost a lot. You try and change things quickly and we both know culture takes time or to build, you know, always that cliche of Rome wasn't built in a day. You know, stacking bricks is one of your, you know, things that you like to do. So it's interesting that people like lovable losers. Yet are they doing the thing they need to do to be successful? And we get mad at those teams that are. And I think, you know, we're in a similar boat too. Even, you know, you even wonder if it impacts postseason awards or such that you know, people want to see different teams represented or see, you know, other people get recognition and notice. And I agree with that. But, but you know, we are competing for championships and you know, usually, you know, just like another coach, the cream rises to the top. And you know, when you bring up March Madness, it's a one game event. It could be the team with the best momentum or the team with the best matchup. And in postseason, in some pro sports where they do a series, I believe that those, you know, the best team, usually the best does win those.

So

have you experienced any of that? Even, you know, here at LCC or

with losing or winning with just like

a target on your back, how, how that is treated differently than or even, you know, those programs that you've identified. You know, talking to some of our coaches, when you see a program that is struggling, you try and learn what they're doing so you don't repeat it or what not to do. I mean, I've had a couple coaches here, we don't want to do that or we want to be successful. And it starts we're, you know, have a good support of our college. You know, you brought up Michigan football right now going through some of the allegations they're going through and it's almost helped them in one sense that it seems to have aligned their college where their, their whole administration is on the same page, where it wasn't heading into this season. So I think that talks a little bit about culture that some of these teams, because some of this can break that. If you're not on the same page, then it'll probably tear it apart and you'll go down the avenue of failing where if you have a culture of unity in that it'll help you be stronger and probably even be more successful. And you have to be, because one of my favorite things that educational athletic teaches us is how to handle adversity and handle it in a controlled setting because you're going to have adversity in all facets of your life. So why not practice it during a game and learn how to handle that so the good teams learn how to handle adversity and fight through it. And you know, we've talked about consistency before, perseverance. You know, Resilient was my one word 12, 10 months ago it's crazy, you know, as we talk about this podcast, you don't have to come up with a new word for the new new year. Not that I go by words, but what's your experience with having a target? I mean, you, you know, you coach a top five program and, and do you see differently? We've talked about how other teams act. Even, you know, like when we do get beat, it's like they won a national championship. And sportsmanship, managing can be a little tough. So, you know, and our kids, you don't have to learn that, like, act like they've been there before and hopefully they have.

So to some degree we still want them to experience the joy because the winning or the success just doesn't come very easily. So when they do have success, they're going to celebrate that piece of it, whether it's in a moment or whatever it is. But, you know, I think to put it simply from my perspective or our team's perspective, and really it probably comes down to all those things that you just talked about. But we as a coaching staff have been treated immensely different after year one. So we're, we're into year three now. We've been treated completely different than we were initially when we started coaching here. So that I think that really sums it up. So when you ask our experiences, it's not something that bothers us. It's more or less just fuel for, you know, continuing on. And part of, part of that, whatever process you talk about, whether it's lovable losers or winning or, you know, however you want to label it, it's just, it's part of the process. So.

Yeah, and interesting because our environment is a competitive nature, so it would seem like everyone wants to win, which everyone, I think does want to win. It's more do they want to prepare to win or have the will to win. So it doesn't surprise me. I've been in this business a long time where there's certain teams out there and I'm not at any level, all level, that are like, treated differently because they might not have the resource. There could be a number of reasons why a team is not successful. And we've seen a lot of good coaches have bad records because of certain things. Over time you could see you're right, you would disagree with that, that statement. But you know what I'm saying, a good coach could have a bad season. But, you know, like the, one of the things like John Wood and one of the. I would consider one of the most successful or best coaches in history. You know, they talk about how he taught kids how to tie a shoe in the first day of practice, but he didn't win his first national championship until middle of his career, and then he went on a nice run. So was he a bad coach for the first 10 or 11 years, or did it just take time to build it? Or was it, you know, luck or other things? I don't know. But what I'm saying is, back to the teams. We talk about these dynasties that win pretty regularly. You know, even the New England Patriots, they haven't won it every year. The last 23 years, they've won six, seven or eight of them. So other ways to measure success. But, you know, those other teams gunning for you are, you know, could be mad, could, could be jealous, could be a lot of factors. And the good ones work hard or emulate you. I mean, that's what I look at. If I see a good team, I'm going to go in there and try and see what they're doing that maybe I can learn from. And I know you have that same

philosophy, but the winning piece is tough because once you see a organization start winning, then just what you said, you've got people that are chasing after you to. Or that organization trying to catch up. And then you also have the piece that plays in that. We kind of talk about in our program quite a bit, which is complacency. So, you know, if you're handed $1,000 every day, pretty soon you get pretty complacent with your money just because you know it's coming in. If you're winning, you get pretty complacent with. With the winning piece, and you just expect to win. And your processes start failing because complacency is sunk in. And that's what you see in sports more often than not. You see really good teams show up to a field, they might be the best team, the biggest team, the fastest team, the tallest, whatever sport it is. And you see this at the high school and college level, you know, quite a bit. And then they're playing maybe what would be considered an inferior opponent. And they get whipped that day just because they don't show up, you know, and you. You see that happen all the time. And that's what complacency is. You just expect to be able to roll the balls out and win or, you know, whatever it's going to be. And that's why winning is so tough, because you can't let that sink in. And the teams that can do it consistently those are the ones that are special because they're beating the curve.

You're reading my notes over here. That's exactly what I have about the joy in a dynasty and why we hate dynasties because they've found a way to not have those hiccups or those games. And you might have it throughout the the season in a Chicago Bulls middle of the season game. But. But I think that's why we get mad at them because they found a way to not have that let down and they. And they continue to. Because back to your thousand dollar example is the desire. I mean like Tom Brady used to say, what's your favorite championship? The next one. If that desire of looking forward and you to be normal, complacent, your mind gets complacent or, or your team can get complacent. That that's why I think another factor where we get mad at these dynasties because they figured out a way not to their culture and it's hard to enjoy. You've experienced and have talked about that the pressure sometimes is a lot when you have to win continuously that it's almost relief instead of joy. But I think the good team that do win that and have that dynasty find a way to celebrate that moment and have that joy. Because that's a huge part of success is being able to experience that happiness that with a team or an individual you still have a network of people that have helped you be successful to share it with and to recognize. So I think that is true in a dynasty that it's that consistency that makes people mad because that is not easy. That's why they're very rare in our society. But we've talked about how certain programs are known for certain specific sports even because that sport has found a way to develop. Fortunately here at LCC all our sports are pretty competitive and successful and that's what excites me the most. And you know why we emphasize the all sports trophy. And you know taking that to a national level would be a goal of ours. But to many they don't want to do the work and they want to sit back and criticize those that are doing it because they know they're going to have to go out there and compete again against them. And that's not fun, that's not fair and it's not even good for either team if it's an uneven matchup. But back to the original premise. It still shocks me that society still love that lovable loser over that dynasty.

Yeah, it's a larger percentage that loves the lovable losers. But there's still a large percentage that appreciates the excellence and that consistency we kind of say is a superpower. And when. When you can have that consistency, that's where you start seeing it.

Go ahead, Journey.

So I was gonna comment because y'

all guys are talking about the lovable loser.

I thought about Kobe Bryant in the Olympics and how they talked about how all the guys went out to party,

and then when they came back from partying, Kobe Bryant had his gym bag going into the gym, and they're like, what are you doing?

He said, this is my regular workout. I get up at 4, 4 in

the morning and work out. And he had that winning mentality.

And that's what it looks like.

Yeah. And some people were jealous of it or didn't want to have it.

And he had it majority. It's the minority that are actually doing it.

And I wasn't a big Kobe fan when he was in because I wasn't a Lakers fan. But the more I study and learn about him in my position, I admire his desire, his workout, his willingness to learn and try. And he talked to a lot of players on the court asking them what they did to be better, and then he would go back and emulate it. So he's a perfect example of a person that was at the top for a long time, that the people that liked him, loved him. And a lot of people that were, you know, didn't want to work as hard as he did. Like, what's he doing that for? And you bring up a good point that ties into that, that the dynasties do get their share of bandwagon fans. There are a lot of people that want to be associated with a winner, which is different than working toward being a winner. But you mentioned percentages that the majority like the lovable loser. But the team we mentioned also have more fans than just their. The Dallas Cowboys, the Dallas area, the New England Patriots, the Boston area, because fans across the country with them wouldn't want to jump on that bandwagon, wear their clothes, you know, say I'm a fan of those. And you see it at all levels, even high school or the college level of even. You mentioned Duke or that have more fans than just went to Duke because of the success they have and people wanting to be a part of it. So it fits right into our sport, that it's like the opposite paradigm where it's a small world, yet at the big world where there's lovable losers. But people love a dynasty. So that seems to be exactly what the sports world asks. And this, this topic of lovable losers is no different than that.

Yeah, I think there's. I was reading about a couple studies with social media because social media is such a large impact on our student athletes. It's enormous. And you've got to kind of understand how to balance it and how to teach, you know, the kind of the do's and don'ts of it. And. And with social media, if you look it, it tends to lean a little more towards the underdog or the lovable loser story than it does to the winning story. And they brought out many, many points of social media and how it lays that way and how the response is whether, depending on what platform it is, whether you call it likes or whatever it might be, they get a lot more percentages of those likes if it's the lovable loser story that's coming out versus somebody that's winning and whatever it might be. And that's a trend that's pretty interesting to see.

It will be interesting especially as we, you know, see how much social media influences societal decisions nowadays as we even talk about sports, how social media is influencing decisions. And it's not just sports. Again, when I was looking up lovable losers, they talked about romantic comedies, how they want the underdog guy to get the girl at the end. You know, how society really roots for those and likes following romantic comedies. But the opposite is true, even with the marvels, how they want the powerful hero to win, too. So you see both and we see both in our world, and we're running out of time. So I'd just like to conclude and be thankful here at lcc that due to a lot of support and a lot of hard work by our coaches and to an athlete that we have had our share of success. And again, we'd like to congratulate our men's cross country team on winning the national championship this fall and all our team. But even another shout out for our volleyball team for winning the district and the league and going into the national championship tournament for, you know, I think they'll have a nice showing there.

First time in school history.

First time in school history. So thankfully, we haven't had a lovable losing fall. We've had a great fall and we'll continue that into the winter and the spring. And so until next time, go stars.

Stars on Sports Outro: Stars on Sports is recorded live at the WLNZ studios. Engineering and production assistance are provided by Daedalian Lowry. You can listen to this episode and other episodes of Stars on Sports on demand at LCCconnect.org to find more information about our athletic program, visit LCCstars.com thanks for listening. Go Stars!