Heather Shannon (00:01.582)

Hello, my friends. We are here today to talk about sexual adventures, specifically figuring out what do you actually want when it comes to your sex life. So this is something I see a lot with couples that I work with in particular, where they're kind of like, you know, I just don't have that much interest in sex or...

we're in a rut, we're kind of doing the same things, or I don't even know what I want. I couldn't even articulate it if I tried. And I think, again, like many things, it's kind of a failure of our system, a lack of education. None of us are really kind of given the tools to explore sex in a fun way that feels healthy and

that does bring that sense of adventure. And so that's what this podcast episode is all about. It's going to be about trying to give you some of those tools. I am going to, this is going to be kind of a resource heavy episode. I will link to everything in the show notes. Some of these are resources I've mentioned in other episodes too. So you might have tried some of them. I hope you've tried some of them. But anyway, so let's.

start out by saying, what keeps us from viewing sex as an adventure? So if sex has become really routine, for example, it's interesting because at the beginning of having sex with somebody new, our goal is to kind of figure out what they like and figure out how to bring them the most pleasure possible.

you know, we want to kind of keep them coming back for more. And I think ironically, what that can lead to, especially in a longer term relationship, is like a sense of mastery, which is good, right? But it turns into the same thing every time. So it's...

Heather Shannon (02:16.864)

Okay, well we do we do kissing and then we do some like fondling and then we start taking clothes off and then we do some oral sex and then we do some intercourse and then we're done and it's kind of like you know where your partner's buttons are so you might be like they have an oral thing so I'm gonna like do things with my mouth or they really like their ear lobes are really sensitive so I'm gonna do some sort of like ear lobe routine or they like music on so I have like our sexy playlist and we do the same whatever it is so it's

It's great to figure those things out. So really what this episode is about is don't stop figuring those things out. And it's also about the idea that, you know, if you've been with someone for 15 years and you have, you probably have figured some things out, right? It doesn't mean that those things you figured out in like year one of your relationship are still true 15 years later.

Right? Like if we just generally think about our bodies now versus our bodies 15 years ago, we probably have different aches and pains. We have maybe different energy levels. We maybe feel different in our body. We have different preferences. And I think sometimes I think that's what the appeal often is about a new partner. But I don't think we need to have a new partner per se.

to keep learning about ourselves, actually, and to keep learning about someone else. And I think that's kind of the trick, especially in long-term monogamy, is how do we keep showing up with sort of a beginner's mind? That's a Buddhist term. I think of beginner's mind as being sort of a way to cheat at being very present. When you're new at something,

It's kind of like, there's this and that. There's this sensation. Like, the sound that they made and the feedback I'm getting and like how I'm feeling. And it's all you're so that you're so in the moment. Right. And so it's like, how do we keep doing that over time? And hopefully we do. OK, so let's also get into what prevents us from knowing what we're into. And I think that.

Heather Shannon (04:41.614)

This is where just life can get in the way, to be honest. I think some of it is our conditioning. especially if you were socialized as a female, there is more slut shaming. There's more of this concept of men are supposed to want sex, or they're supposed to view it as this escapade or conquest or whatever. And women are supposed to protect their reputation. And so it's honestly very discouraging from like, ooh, let's explore and figure out what I like.

I think a lot of you listening have gotten past that or are in the process of getting past that, which is great, but that is a factor. And then I would also say, and this sounds kind of academic, but writing it down. I think what happens is like in the moment, like after we have a sexy encounter, we might be able to say to a friend or write in our journal,

you know, like, my God, and then they looked at me this way and I felt like they just like wanted me so bad and I was like, so turned on and then I could like hear them breathing and it was, you know, and there's like all this like juiciness of like these moments that stand out in our mind from an amazing encounter. But I think then what can happen, especially if you have a lower libido at this moment in time is sort of like a, I don't know, like nothing actually sounds that good. But

these are the moments when it can be helpful to kind of have a list to refer back to. So whether that is sort of journaling sexual encounters and like what are the things that stood out to you as like really working for you or whether that's kind of starting to create a list for yourself of either scenarios or types of touch and physical activities or types of mental foreplay that like really turn you on and get you in the mood.

I think it's worth having something and writing somewhere that you can refer back to actually as a tool to help you get your libido back. Because sometimes just starting to envision and tune back into some of those old sensations that were turn-ons for us can help us start to connect with our sexual energy a bit more. And so I actually think that's important. And then the other thing I'll just say is with life getting in the way,

Heather Shannon (07:01.26)

Yeah, might just be like your life right now could be like work and kids and side note, my kitten is running around in the background. And so if you see just like a blur of activity and or hear him and or he might pounce on the desk, we just let him do what he wants to do because there's no controlling him. OK, so so that's the point, though, is like we want to just sort of be aware that like

We want to make some space for sex in our lives. We don't want it to be this rote routine that we've memorized over the course of 10, 20 years. We want it to be a little bit new each time. And so we like many things. We have to get intentional about that. So let's talk about the idea of what we think we should want, because I think this is also very important. And it gets in the way of understanding what we actually want.

So, and I'll just use myself as an example. So growing up, I probably thought I'm supposed to want making out and fondling and all the touching that goes with that and intercourse and probably oral sex too.

And as much as it's like, OK, don't be slutty or don't do this or that, there's also sort of a, but you still want to be like good at pleasing your partner. You still want to be desired. So all those mixed messages are in there. So those were kind of the things that I think are considered socially acceptable. Now, if you want to be tied up, you might be like, is that weird? Is that weird? I actually had a really good conversation with someone the other day.

about rope bondage and how it can be fully non-sexual. And I think this is just where it's what you make of it, right? People go to rope classes and they learn how to do different ties fully clothed and they learn all these like safety components. And a lot of people do self tying not to get off necessarily, but as a way to reduce anxiety.

Heather Shannon (09:12.428)

It's almost like how animals have like thunder shirts when they get scared and there's like this compression and like feeling contained. That's a lot of what bondage or specifically rope bondage can do for people. So I mentioned this because if you think like rope bondage, you know, it might be like, Ooh, that's kinky. You're like, that's weird. But then if we reframe it, it's like, is it, is it really that weird? We have weighted blankets. Is it any different than a weighted blanket? You know?

And I think so much of what makes something sexual at all is the context. Are you doing it with someone you're attracted to? How much clothing is on? Has there been some buildup or anticipation? Is there flirting or heavy breathing going with it? Or is it just like, this is like a tactical thing, and I'm just going to do this knot and this knot, and look, now I'm tied up. OK, fine. So very different context. So I think that's important to keep in mind, too.

And that, think, also goes to the idea that you might want to try things twice, right? A lot of people say, I'll try anything once. I think with a lot of this, because the context is so important, I would encourage you to try it twice, unless you just absolutely hate it and feel zero openness towards whatever activity it is. So that's an example of what should we want versus what actually excites us.

And one that's changed that I've spoken about in other episodes is anal sex. So I certainly know when I was maybe in my early 30s, even like 10 years ago, I had a feeling of like, my god, what does it mean if I like anal sex? What kind of woman likes anal sex? Right? As if there's a whole type of person. There isn't. There's no type of person that likes any certain sexual activity. Right?

Again, there's so much to it. It's the partner we're with. It's how we're feeling in our own body that day. It's the buildup leading up to a sexual activity. It's the physical sensation and nerve ending, which have nothing to do with judgment. so what I'm really trying to get at here is like, can we please just take the morality out of sex? What if there is no morality to it? What if it's just like, this is a thing we do, and we all like to do different things with our bodies and with our partners? Great.

Heather Shannon (11:36.674)

That would be my goal for you. And you might like something with one partner, not another partner. Right? I think the important thing is like, you're not locked into anything. You get to be totally free. You get to change your mind every five seconds, or you get to never change your mind. Right? But the idea is just to keep tuning into yourself and figuring out what seems appealing, what floats my boat, what works in this partnership.

at this point in my life, in this body, in the state that it's in today. And so that does require continuing to check in with yourself. OK. So with that little shame disclaimer out of the way, I think that it's also important to communicate with our partners about this. So especially if you are in that routine of

you know, we kind of do the same thing every time or we have like two positions and we're always having sex in the bed and, you know, we're limited by if the kids in the house or not. And I prescribed to one of my clients the other day to put a lock on their bedroom door. You know, sometimes there's like a genuine fear of like a kid walking in. Right. And so like limiting some of the things that are basically getting in the way of your sex life and being able to explore and carve that time out. And so

Basically, my suggestion would be have a conversation first. If you've kind of been in a place of doing at the same time, especially since you're listening to this podcast, you could just say, I listened to podcast episode. And Heather was talking about all these different ways to explore and kind of figure out what we like and the importance of just kind of bringing in some of that variety. And I want us to do that. Let's try some things. What do you think?

And that's where you can kind of just set some ground rules about, do we want to maybe each pick one thing to try? And then sometime in the next month, let's try it. So it doesn't have to be a list of 100 different things. I encourage you to start where you're at. Some of you are going to be like, yes, I want to do a list of 100 things. Fantastic. Do that. Some of you are going to be like, my god, I'm so overwhelmed by even changing something. Can we just keep it really small?

Heather Shannon (13:57.816)

Yes, 100%. Pick one thing. And in those ideas, some of it might be like, my gosh, I'm so used to doing the same thing. Where do I even get the ideas anymore? It could be from an erotic novel. It could be from a guided sexual meditation or an audio erotica. A couple platforms that have those are Dipsy and Quinn.

And actually Femtasy, who you might be hearing more from in the future, on the podcast. So yeah, getting ideas from other places. You do not need to reinvent the wheel. The creativity will come as you nurture the creativity. But start with just getting some ideas from somewhere else and noticing what appeals to you. You don't have to.

pressure yourself or have the idea that I should just come up with stuff myself. No, let's just throw that in the garbage can, metaphorically speaking, and make our lives easier. The important thing is to actually just try different things and figure some things out. So you're going to have the conversation. You guys are going to agree together. Let's create a safe space. If you're single or if you want to just start on your own, decide that. Carve out some time for yourself.

You can come up with a new toy you want to try. You can do a sensual practice, right? Like, it doesn't have to be all about penetration or orgasm. It can just be about having a sensual moment with yourself that is a turn on, right? It could be like, just get out some massage oil, put on a song, touch your body.

It doesn't have to even be sexual. It could be like, OK, I'm just going to touch my hand, or I'm just going to notice the nerve endings and what parts of my body just are most sensitive in terms of the response that I have to touch. And then even exploring what's the difference between touching yourself and someone else touching you. And do the spots change when someone else is touching you? I think that would be a really interesting exploration.

Heather Shannon (16:20.238)

For me, they do, right? Like if I'm with a partner, kind of like the neck shoulder area, kind of the back of the neck shoulder area can be a sensitive spot for me. But like when I touch it now, it's like, meh. So again, context is really important. And that's part of what we're learning in this process.

Okay. So we're communicating, now we're starting to get ideas. So you can find a yes, no, maybe list. If you just Google yes, no, maybe list, you will find some. And then you can go through, ooh, all these different sexual activities. Most of the people I work with will be like, I didn't even know what a few of them were and I had to Google it. Awesome, we're already learning. Right? So like, that's the whole point. There might be some that you're like, ew, no, never.

I do recommend when talking about it with a partner.

to establish don't yuck my yum as a ground rule. So that just means if your partner is into something or if your partner hasn't said yet whether they're into something, don't say, ew, that's gross. Right? So basically, I would just suggest sticking to, ooh, that one seems fun. Or, you know, I don't know. I feel like I could be open to that. Like, I'm not instantly drawn to it, but it's not like a hard no. Or it could be like,

That one's just a no for me right now. I don't see that changing or it's not going to change anytime soon. So yeah, but you don't need to get into the, that's weird, ooh, that's gross, that's like, why would you be like into that? We just want to be neutral with our nos. OK. Now, certain people are going be more comfortable exploring, right? I think especially those of us with ADHD maybe, who get bored easily, or who

Heather Shannon (18:15.086)

have the time and space and not too many external demands on us, people in that situation might have more interest or more comfort in exploring new things. People who are burned out, overstressed, giving so much to others, not super in touch with their desire right now, it might be more of a stretch. And so in that case, I would say don't overdo it, right? Pace yourself, baby steps.

If you try one new thing a month for a year, guess what? You've tried 12 new things, and you've probably found six of them that you like you want to incorporate into your repertoire. So that's pretty amazing. It doesn't have to be this all or nothing at all. I would encourage you, don't make it all or nothing unless the all option is just very exciting and you have the time and the bandwidth.

So I want to get a little bit more into the solo exploration option. some of those apps I mentioned do have guided masturbation. That can be really great for body awareness. I think journaling about your fantasies, about your past sexual experiences. Emily Nagoski has a companion workbook to her very popular Come As You Are book.

So the Come As You Are workbook is actually a great place to start. I believe I have that in my Amazon storefront. So I will link to my Amazon storefront, which will have all the book options. And then I'll link to one of the other ones I didn't mention yet, which is the We Should Try It, which is actually more for partner exploration. So yeah, mindfulness, mindful masturbation, body awareness, journaling fantasies, using the Come As You Are workbook.

Audio erotica, as I mentioned, can be really fun, using different toys to play with yourself during masturbation or solo sex, exploring different types of erotica, whether it's audio or written or video. All of these are gonna be ways to get to know your sexual self better. Now, when it comes to exploring with a partner, one of the things I recommend

Heather Shannon (20:24.462)

to clients is it's like viewing it as an experiment, right? Because what happens is we tend to get performance anxiety when it comes to trying something new because we have this idea that like, I'm an adult and I should have it all figured out. And I was thinking about this. So in areas of life where we are very confident, I think we actually feel more comfortable.

asking questions or kind of like letting ourselves not know everything. So for example, I did well in school. I feel like I am smart. Therefore, if I'm at a lecture, I'm OK being like, what? I'm confused. I'm lost. Can somebody help me? Because it's not threatening my identity, right? But if I think, oh, look, I'm not that smart. I like have always struggled in school or I'm not very good at standardized tests. I might be less likely.

to ask a question, because I'm going to worry that it's reinforcing this shameful aspect of my identity. So if your identity is, I am a fucking sex goddess or god or whatever. I am this mythical, amazing sex creature. Then you might be like, yeah, let's go, because it's not threatening your identity. If you're more like, I don't know if I'm good at sex. I don't know anything about myself sexually.

I feel like my techniques are not that good. I don't even want feedback on them because I think they're not good. Then it might be like, this feels like very threatening. This feels like it might trigger some stuff. So be aware of that. Honestly, that's probably a really good time to hire a coach or a therapist in this area if you're just like, your identity is not supporting you. You need to shift the identity. And I think that's important to know too is like, these are not fixed identities. They're not even based on fact.

Right? They're just how we've come to think about ourselves, maybe based on one or two pivotal experiences in our life that stand out in our mind. When you think about how many experiences we've actually had, it doesn't make sense necessarily to base our identity on one or two things. So my encouragement to you would be a little bit of fake a TMAGED here. Would be a little bit of a

Heather Shannon (22:49.41)

Let me just let myself not be that good at it then. What if I just don't make that like an identity thing? What if I'm just like, I'm trying new things. Why would I expect to be good at it? There's a very good book about this called Mindset by Carol Dweck. D-W-E-C-K is the last name. It's not a sex book, but it's really about

I think especially when there's an area you have been really good at, whether you're a really good athlete, a really good student, very popular, whatever, if things have come easy to you in some areas, there can be this belief of like, well, it should just come easy. I they're just good at something or I'm not, you know? And again, because we're not taught really anything about pleasure when it comes to sex, have porn is like what most people look at to learn about sex, which

is not actually an educational tool, it's an entertainment tool. it's just, like, we just have to allow ourselves to be a beginner at some things, right? And I think this is part of the conversation with your partner is like creating the safety to do that. So if you can just be like, okay, I love you, I'm not gonna leave you even if we have like the weirdest, most awkward sexual encounter. Let's just like agree to like laugh about it and laugh with each other and not at each other.

and to kind of just be proud of ourselves for trying something new regardless. So like this can all be part of like setting up a safe container to do some experimenting and trying things out. Okay, so I hope that's helpful. And then a couple more specific ideas. So now that we've like created a container, we're gonna kind of, you know, do some solo exploration. Now we're gonna do some partner exploration. I do wanna give you guys some specific ideas. So.

Some things you can try. And just notice what appeals to you. You could do something where you do a kissing lab. This is an idea. And I think at some point, I'm going to make a guidebook or something on a kissing lab. But it could be like, hey, we're not on the same page with kissing, even though we've been married for 20 years. Or we just avoid kissing. maybe I thought I didn't like kissing, but that was 20 years ago that I decided that. And so maybe let's revisit it for whatever reason.

Heather Shannon (25:09.228)

you could do a kissing lab. So it could be like, hey, let's just have our little like sheets where we like rate what we like the most. And we can start with just like a closed mouth kiss or a kiss on the cheek. We can do open mouth, no tongue. We can do open mouth, little tongue. We can do open mouth, trace our partner's lips with our tongue. We can do little nibble on the bottom lip. We can do like very deep

Passionate kisses or kind of shorter but more frequent kisses We can try kissing different parts of the body. So you if you guys wanted to do something like that You could set up a little kissing lab experiment and I think even just calling it a Lab or an experiment helps you look at it like cool We're just trying to get some data points here. It helps sort of neutralize the emotions of it

And you could really just look at it like, what do I like most on a sensory level? And that would be the whole goal of it is just to notice. So it'd be like, OK, maybe I really liked the deep passionate kiss, but only when it was built up to with some smaller kisses first. Or I really like neck kisses more than mouth kisses. Or I like receiving them more than giving them. Or the reverse. And so if you and your partner can identify that for each other,

that's great information for the whole rest of your lives together. So I think that's the way to look at this. This is an investment in the future of your relationship to do some of this experimenting. And I also think it just brings a fun, playful energy of, let's just not take it too seriously and try some things. That's it. Let's try some things. You could do a sensory night. So you could do something where you play with

temperatures. Let's do like one of those like face rollers, you know. You could put it in the freezer. Then you'd be like, OK, let's do a cold face roller. See how that goes. Let's do kind of a warming massage oil. Let's do ice cubes. Or let's do a hot wax. Like there's some candles that are designed for hot wax play. It could be let's do different textures.

Heather Shannon (27:32.3)

So let's do something with a feather, or there's like a Whartonburg pinwheel, I might be saying that wrong, that has like little sharp edges and can be like, okay, let's see if that just feels ticklish or prickly, and how do we like that? Let's do some silk ties, or let's even just graze our fingers over each other. Let's do something slippery, like using oil or lube, and to just experiment with all of those different.

textures in different places on your body. You can experiment with smells and do some different aroma therapy. You can do something furry for texture. So to just design your own little smorgasbord of things to try. And everyone's different. So some people might want to do positions. It might be like, you know, that's not really our thing.

but we do the same two sex positions all the time and not something we do kind of want to mix up. Awesome. What if you do a goal to try five new sex positions this month or this year? Like, you know what I mean? These are all just like, you get to design what works for you. These are all just ideas. so I hope that that is helpful. I do feel like this, there's a lot here and I want to just kind of frame it in the sense that

If you were to even just do some of the things I've mentioned in this episode, this could be like a year's worth of experimenting, right? So pick one thing to start with. Either start on your own or have a conversation with your partner and go from there. And again, it's an investment in your future. So again, we're getting through the shoulds and we're like letting go of the performance anxiety.

We're establishing with our partner that we're not rejecting each other. And then celebrate the wins, right? Not everything is gonna be like a home run, right? Some of the things you might be like, okay, we tried that and I like literally hated it. I hated all of it. And it could be like, you know what though, now we know and we're not, we don't have to try that again anytime soon. But also celebrate those moments where you were like, wow, I didn't even think I was that into kissing, but actually really.

Heather Shannon (29:49.77)

love the small repeated kisses, or I really loved when you traced your tongue over my mouth, or when we just had some heavy breathing in between kisses and built up some anticipation with some sort of teasing, you know? So let yourself explore. And the thing that happens is, especially if you're feeling stuck at all, as you start exploring,

the creativity will then start coming to you more. So it's kind of like you're waking up the sexual energy and the creative energy, which there's a lot of overlap there between sexual and creative energy. They're both part of your second chakra, if you're into chakras. And as it wakes up, more ideas will come to you or will come to your partner for future exploration. And you know I'm full of resources, so you're always welcome to reach out to me if you're like, Heather, I've gone through literally every resource.

you've provided. No one has ever done that. So if you do, I'd be very proud of you. But anyways, thank you all for listening. I hope that this was helpful. I hope you go have some sexual adventures and have an amazing time and discover some things you love that help you connect with your own sexual energy and or with someone else's. So thank you all for listening. And we'll catch you on another episode of Ask a Sex Therapist. Bye, everybody.