1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,290 You found the backup wrap up, your go-to podcast for all things 2 00:00:04,290 --> 00:00:07,199 backup recovery and cyber recovery. 3 00:00:07,770 --> 00:00:13,170 In this episode, we're talking about World Backup Day, which was March 31st. 4 00:00:13,170 --> 00:00:16,980 I know I'm a little behind on this one, but I thought it was a really 5 00:00:16,980 --> 00:00:20,700 good episode, rerecorded and uh, just got a little behind releasing it. 6 00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:25,915 Prasanna and I discussed some scary statistics about data loss, like how. 7 00:00:26,325 --> 00:00:31,575 94% of companies that suffer a major data loss don't recover. 8 00:00:32,084 --> 00:00:36,135 We also talk about the famous 3, 2, 1 rule immutable backups and 9 00:00:36,135 --> 00:00:38,025 why backing up your SaaS data. 10 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:41,280 It's something that many folks actually overlook. 11 00:00:41,790 --> 00:00:46,830 Grab a coffee or whatever and check out our belated World Backup Day episode. 12 00:00:47,489 --> 00:00:52,920 By the way, if you don't know who I am, I'm w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup, 13 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:58,739 and I've been specializing in backup and recovery for over 30 years, ever since. 14 00:00:58,739 --> 00:01:02,819 I had to tell my boss that there were no backups of the production 15 00:01:02,819 --> 00:01:04,560 database that we had just lost. 16 00:01:05,129 --> 00:01:07,679 I don't want that to ever again happen to me. 17 00:01:07,679 --> 00:01:09,120 I don't want it to happen to you. 18 00:01:09,390 --> 00:01:11,370 That's why I do this podcast. 19 00:01:12,030 --> 00:01:17,429 On this podcast, we turn unappreciated backup admins into Cyber Recovery Heroes. 20 00:01:17,759 --> 00:01:19,795 This is the backup wrap up. 21 00:01:20,355 --> 00:01:20,475 I. 22 00:01:34,141 --> 00:01:35,101 Welcome to the show. 23 00:01:35,461 --> 00:01:38,281 Hi, I am w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup. 24 00:01:38,281 --> 00:01:42,241 And with me, I have a guy that's trying to take the joy outta my most recent 25 00:01:42,241 --> 00:01:45,091 Amazon purchase Prasanna, Molly Yodi. 26 00:01:45,091 --> 00:01:45,601 How's it going? 27 00:01:45,601 --> 00:01:46,681 Prasanna. 28 00:01:46,701 --> 00:01:47,506 I am good, Curtis. 29 00:01:47,506 --> 00:01:48,916 Now I'm trying to think. 30 00:01:50,101 --> 00:01:52,681 Which Amazon purchase you are referring to? 31 00:01:52,711 --> 00:01:58,411 Because I recommended something for you to purchase, and I'm 32 00:01:58,591 --> 00:01:59,311 That 33 00:01:59,611 --> 00:02:02,161 is more recent than what you are complaining about now. 34 00:02:03,121 --> 00:02:04,316 I, I just received these 35 00:02:04,651 --> 00:02:05,161 Oh, okay. 36 00:02:06,296 --> 00:02:06,516 and 37 00:02:06,691 --> 00:02:09,181 received quite a lot of Amazon purchases, I must say. 38 00:02:13,411 --> 00:02:13,561 grande. 39 00:02:13,831 --> 00:02:15,871 Are we sponsored by Amazon, by the way, or 40 00:02:15,991 --> 00:02:17,851 We, we are not sponsored by Amazon. 41 00:02:20,951 --> 00:02:24,551 I bought , these cool things based on a suggestion of somebody else. 42 00:02:24,881 --> 00:02:28,451 Um, 'cause I, we we're, we're renting out now we, we have renters, we're 43 00:02:28,601 --> 00:02:29,921 people are renting rooms in our house. 44 00:02:29,921 --> 00:02:31,211 You know, it's, it's all the rage. 45 00:02:31,811 --> 00:02:34,061 And, um, 'cause we're empty nesters. 46 00:02:34,451 --> 00:02:38,921 And, uh, this person who does like YouTube videos on and, and she had 47 00:02:38,921 --> 00:02:42,131 this thing, these little lights that, you know, they're small, they're like. 48 00:02:42,776 --> 00:02:43,196 What is it? 49 00:02:43,196 --> 00:02:44,186 Six inches long? 50 00:02:44,411 --> 00:02:44,711 Yeah. 51 00:02:44,726 --> 00:02:49,046 Um, and, and battery operated and, and motion detecting, you know, and, 52 00:02:49,046 --> 00:02:52,586 and so you, you put 'em like in your halls and stuff and I, I bought a 53 00:02:52,586 --> 00:02:54,986 bunch of them and you were saying you don't like where I'm gonna put 'em. 54 00:02:54,986 --> 00:02:56,301 And you, you're taking away my joy. 55 00:02:56,651 --> 00:03:00,401 so don't get me wrong, they're totally practical. 56 00:03:00,431 --> 00:03:03,761 In places like closets where you're opening it, you need 57 00:03:03,761 --> 00:03:05,111 to grab something quickly. 58 00:03:05,351 --> 00:03:10,481 You can't see, there's no electrical there on stairs where you can't necessarily see 59 00:03:10,481 --> 00:03:15,551 as you're approaching, but you wanna place it on a hall in a hallway where there are 60 00:03:15,641 --> 00:03:16,091 Yes, 61 00:03:16,091 --> 00:03:21,161 and there are light switches on either side of the hallway to turn it on and it, 62 00:03:21,341 --> 00:03:21,611 but, 63 00:03:21,671 --> 00:03:21,941 and 64 00:03:22,091 --> 00:03:24,911 but not everybody wants to turn on a light just so they can go to the 65 00:03:24,911 --> 00:03:26,291 bathroom in the middle of the night. 66 00:03:26,891 --> 00:03:27,761 Don't you see that? 67 00:03:28,286 --> 00:03:29,036 That is true. 68 00:03:30,341 --> 00:03:32,141 See, you know, I'm just saying. 69 00:03:32,561 --> 00:03:33,251 I think it's cool. 70 00:03:33,431 --> 00:03:37,121 Anyway, I have joy and you're not gonna take away my joy. 71 00:03:37,151 --> 00:03:37,211 Uh, 72 00:03:37,316 --> 00:03:41,771 but wait, can we also talk about the up your previous Amazon purchase, which 73 00:03:42,041 --> 00:03:44,441 that you recommended the The Robo Rock. 74 00:03:44,441 --> 00:03:47,651 The Robo Rock, um, max, uh, yeah. 75 00:03:47,651 --> 00:03:53,921 The, yeah, my new, my new Roomba replacement after Roomba, you know, my, my 76 00:03:53,921 --> 00:03:59,681 $600 Roomba, that stopped working and then they want to charge me $300 to repair it. 77 00:03:59,681 --> 00:04:02,291 I'm like, for $300 I can buy two Roba rocks. 78 00:04:02,681 --> 00:04:06,731 and, and by the way, I think they're going bankrupt or about to declare 79 00:04:06,836 --> 00:04:07,526 Yeah, Roomba. 80 00:04:07,586 --> 00:04:08,576 Roomba is, yeah. 81 00:04:08,756 --> 00:04:08,936 Yeah. 82 00:04:08,936 --> 00:04:09,806 They're not doing so well. 83 00:04:10,691 --> 00:04:12,101 and not done anything with it. 84 00:04:14,666 --> 00:04:15,476 Yeah, that's true. 85 00:04:16,616 --> 00:04:17,036 Yeah. 86 00:04:17,336 --> 00:04:20,936 But I'm very happy with my new, my new, uh, I have two of them. 87 00:04:21,506 --> 00:04:22,856 I gave them names, ups. 88 00:04:22,886 --> 00:04:26,156 The one for upstairs is called Upsy Daisy, and the one for 89 00:04:26,156 --> 00:04:27,506 downstairs is called Sir Clean. 90 00:04:27,536 --> 00:04:28,466 Sir cleans a lot. 91 00:04:30,806 --> 00:04:36,476 But, um, anyway, so, you know, we didn't do, we should have done a show. 92 00:04:36,806 --> 00:04:39,566 This is a, this is a, I should have done a show, show. 93 00:04:40,196 --> 00:04:43,916 We did not do a show for, you know, one of my favorite days, which is World 94 00:04:43,916 --> 00:04:47,756 Backup Day, which is the day before April Fool's Day, because you know, 95 00:04:47,756 --> 00:04:48,986 if you don't back up you're a fool. 96 00:04:49,151 --> 00:04:52,811 but, and the funny thing is, I don't think you even remembered it was backup day 97 00:04:52,916 --> 00:04:53,516 I didn't. 98 00:04:53,546 --> 00:04:55,496 I've been very, I've been very busy. 99 00:04:55,751 --> 00:04:57,791 I called you and was like, happy world backup day. 100 00:04:57,791 --> 00:04:58,631 And you're like, wait, what? 101 00:04:59,331 --> 00:05:00,866 What you said. 102 00:05:00,866 --> 00:05:04,316 No, you said something like, happy favorite day or something. 103 00:05:04,421 --> 00:05:04,811 yeah. 104 00:05:04,826 --> 00:05:05,606 You said something. 105 00:05:05,606 --> 00:05:06,056 I was like, 106 00:05:06,131 --> 00:05:07,331 your third favorite day. 107 00:05:07,721 --> 00:05:09,581 I think your first favorite day is your birthday. 108 00:05:09,581 --> 00:05:11,831 The second favorite day is Christmas, and this is your third. 109 00:05:14,786 --> 00:05:15,056 yeah. 110 00:05:15,056 --> 00:05:16,976 And I was like, what in the hell are you talking about? 111 00:05:17,366 --> 00:05:21,386 But I thought what we would do is, uh, just take a look at some 112 00:05:21,386 --> 00:05:23,156 of the coverage that people did. 113 00:05:23,156 --> 00:05:25,646 You know, sometimes people have some interesting insights. 114 00:05:26,186 --> 00:05:31,076 Uh, around World backup Day, and obviously it's one of my favorite talk topics. 115 00:05:31,286 --> 00:05:34,226 So I thought we'd take a look at some of the coverage and, and see if we can, you 116 00:05:34,226 --> 00:05:39,626 know, deduce anything interesting from the stories and, uh, we'll, we'll include 117 00:05:39,626 --> 00:05:42,296 links to all the stories that we're gonna, that we're gonna talk about in there. 118 00:05:42,576 --> 00:05:49,446 The first story is from Sophia Barnett over at otbi, uh, object first.com. 119 00:05:49,986 --> 00:05:50,766 And so, OT, what? 120 00:05:51,621 --> 00:05:54,681 I think they're technically the company name is Object First. 121 00:05:55,761 --> 00:05:56,181 Okay. 122 00:05:56,181 --> 00:05:56,481 Yeah. 123 00:05:56,481 --> 00:05:58,161 The company name is Optic First, right? 124 00:05:58,161 --> 00:06:00,231 But it's, UBI is the product 125 00:06:00,471 --> 00:06:00,591 I 126 00:06:00,771 --> 00:06:04,101 which stands for Out of the Box Immutability. 127 00:06:04,131 --> 00:06:09,141 So they're a storage product specifically targeted at, uh, a Veeam. 128 00:06:09,291 --> 00:06:11,871 Um, I, I think their principles would work. 129 00:06:12,741 --> 00:06:13,191 Go ahead. 130 00:06:13,281 --> 00:06:13,491 Yeah. 131 00:06:13,641 --> 00:06:17,091 And it was actually started by the co-founders of Veeam. 132 00:06:18,831 --> 00:06:20,061 Wait, it's Rap Mirror, right? 133 00:06:20,901 --> 00:06:21,261 Yeah. 134 00:06:22,356 --> 00:06:24,156 And others, et et all. 135 00:06:24,516 --> 00:06:29,106 Um, it, it's, it's funny, the first thing I find amusing is that they. 136 00:06:29,661 --> 00:06:33,801 They liken backups to brushing and flossing, flossing your teeth, 137 00:06:33,951 --> 00:06:37,371 something else that no one likes to do, uh, especially the flossing part. 138 00:06:37,791 --> 00:06:41,781 But they, they've got some interesting statistics that they quote. 139 00:06:41,781 --> 00:06:45,591 I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a link to the article that they quote from a lot. 140 00:06:46,011 --> 00:06:50,751 But, um, there's a, another article from, um, a company that. 141 00:06:51,216 --> 00:06:56,646 Uh, did a bunch of, you know, data loss statistics from 2024, and it 142 00:06:56,676 --> 00:07:00,666 obviously, we, we've heard this before, 94% of companies that suffer 143 00:07:00,666 --> 00:07:03,276 a major data loss do not recover. 144 00:07:03,336 --> 00:07:05,316 That is a scary statistic. 145 00:07:05,436 --> 00:07:05,646 Oh 146 00:07:05,766 --> 00:07:06,846 heard that before though, right? 147 00:07:07,056 --> 00:07:11,736 And in fact, we did the series on cloud disasters, right. 148 00:07:11,736 --> 00:07:16,896 That basically ruined companies, shut them down. 149 00:07:17,166 --> 00:07:20,946 Cause significant business impact, right? 150 00:07:21,396 --> 00:07:25,356 So yeah, it's definitely one thing you do not want to mess around with. 151 00:07:26,856 --> 00:07:27,426 Yeah. 152 00:07:27,516 --> 00:07:27,906 Yeah. 153 00:07:27,906 --> 00:07:33,936 And the, so they've got the 94% that suffer a major data loss do not recover. 154 00:07:33,966 --> 00:07:35,016 That is really scary. 155 00:07:35,016 --> 00:07:38,376 They've also got that half of the companies that have any kind of data 156 00:07:38,376 --> 00:07:40,956 loss, they close within two years. 157 00:07:41,376 --> 00:07:45,081 So it's like they, they, they, they don't close right away, but they end up, um, 158 00:07:45,516 --> 00:07:48,126 and 43% never reopen after shutting down. 159 00:07:48,756 --> 00:07:51,366 Uh, that's, it's pretty scary Statistics. 160 00:07:51,756 --> 00:07:53,586 no, that's definitely scary and I don't. 161 00:07:53,976 --> 00:07:57,606 Think people really internalize that number, right? 162 00:07:57,606 --> 00:08:01,596 Because you don't always hear, it's kind of like you like startups, right? 163 00:08:01,596 --> 00:08:04,896 You always hear about the companies that went big on IPOs, but you 164 00:08:04,896 --> 00:08:07,086 never really hear about all the companies that went bust. 165 00:08:07,911 --> 00:08:09,051 Which are most of them 166 00:08:09,246 --> 00:08:09,816 exactly. 167 00:08:09,816 --> 00:08:11,586 And it kind of feels the same way here. 168 00:08:11,586 --> 00:08:14,616 Like you don't, you only hear a couple about like companies 169 00:08:14,616 --> 00:08:16,386 that have recovered, but not 170 00:08:16,461 --> 00:08:16,791 right? 171 00:08:16,926 --> 00:08:18,486 the companies that went bust. 172 00:08:18,486 --> 00:08:21,366 And I think the other stat from this article that was interesting 173 00:08:21,366 --> 00:08:26,316 is for small businesses, 70% close within a year of a large data loss. 174 00:08:26,751 --> 00:08:27,681 Yeah, yeah. 175 00:08:29,481 --> 00:08:29,811 Yeah. 176 00:08:29,841 --> 00:08:30,471 That's scary. 177 00:08:30,841 --> 00:08:36,001 One thing I do like in this article is they talk about world Backup Day pledge. 178 00:08:36,181 --> 00:08:37,321 I dunno if you saw that, 179 00:08:37,681 --> 00:08:38,011 Yeah. 180 00:08:38,041 --> 00:08:38,341 Yeah. 181 00:08:38,701 --> 00:08:43,501 says, I solemnly swear to back up my important documents and precious memories 182 00:08:43,501 --> 00:08:46,531 on March 31st, hashtag World Backup Day. 183 00:08:47,161 --> 00:08:47,581 Yeah. 184 00:08:47,581 --> 00:08:50,731 in tiny quotes, it says, I will also tell my friends and 185 00:08:50,731 --> 00:08:52,321 family about world backup Day. 186 00:08:52,591 --> 00:08:53,311 Real friends. 187 00:08:53,311 --> 00:08:55,441 Don't let friends go without a backup. 188 00:08:55,441 --> 00:08:56,281 Smiley face. 189 00:08:56,611 --> 00:08:57,361 I like that. 190 00:08:57,616 --> 00:09:01,381 You know, you know, one of the things that's happened to me multiple times in my 191 00:09:01,411 --> 00:09:04,981 life is because people know I know backup. 192 00:09:05,191 --> 00:09:10,351 They often come to me when they have that moment of like, I just did this 193 00:09:10,351 --> 00:09:13,381 thing and I think I've lost all my data. 194 00:09:13,381 --> 00:09:14,371 Can you help me? 195 00:09:14,851 --> 00:09:17,371 And I'm like, well, what's your backup plan? 196 00:09:17,371 --> 00:09:19,141 And they're like, I don't have a backup plan. 197 00:09:19,141 --> 00:09:22,081 I'm like, well, I can help you best if I have a time machine. 198 00:09:22,081 --> 00:09:22,321 Right. 199 00:09:22,321 --> 00:09:27,421 You know, like, it, it, it, it hurts me when I see, when I see data loss 200 00:09:27,421 --> 00:09:28,861 happening, especially if it's like. 201 00:09:29,491 --> 00:09:31,921 You know, data that somebody thinks is really important 202 00:09:31,921 --> 00:09:33,511 to them personally, right? 203 00:09:34,021 --> 00:09:37,981 Um, yeah, I could, I can think one of the worst ones I remember, I remember it was, 204 00:09:37,981 --> 00:09:41,581 it was a niece, niece of mine that came to me and she was like, help me, uncle 205 00:09:41,581 --> 00:09:43,231 Curtis, like, help me with this thing. 206 00:09:43,651 --> 00:09:47,716 Luckily with that one, I. I think we were able it, like it was a drive 207 00:09:47,716 --> 00:09:51,886 that was dying and we were able to duplicate the drive before it fully died. 208 00:09:51,886 --> 00:09:53,296 But, um, yeah. 209 00:09:53,986 --> 00:09:58,486 Um, there's another interesting stat here about, um, that the average 210 00:09:58,486 --> 00:10:00,256 annual cost of a data breach. 211 00:10:00,256 --> 00:10:04,321 Now this isn't quite, basically, you know, reason why we're talking 212 00:10:04,481 --> 00:10:07,486 about data breaches is data breaches often result in ransomware. 213 00:10:07,701 --> 00:10:11,541 Ransomware often results in, you know, needing backup and often 214 00:10:11,541 --> 00:10:13,011 results in killing backups. 215 00:10:13,011 --> 00:10:13,341 Right? 216 00:10:13,791 --> 00:10:19,161 Um, $9.36 million of the average cost of a, of a breach that is a. 217 00:10:19,231 --> 00:10:19,861 us Yeah. 218 00:10:19,951 --> 00:10:22,741 And that's quite a lot of money, right? 219 00:10:22,741 --> 00:10:24,031 Just if you think about, and. 220 00:10:24,796 --> 00:10:27,436 know when we think from a backup perspective, we're like, oh, it's just 221 00:10:27,436 --> 00:10:29,176 the same as restoring data, right? 222 00:10:29,176 --> 00:10:30,946 Recovering systems, right? 223 00:10:30,946 --> 00:10:33,766 And yes, you are doing more systems, but that's all you're doing. 224 00:10:33,766 --> 00:10:37,306 But if you go back and listen to some of our podcast episodes when 225 00:10:37,306 --> 00:10:42,856 we had Mike Sailor on, It's not just about recovering the data, right? 226 00:10:42,856 --> 00:10:45,436 You don't even know what systems are good, what systems are 227 00:10:45,436 --> 00:10:47,086 bad, what backups even use. 228 00:10:47,446 --> 00:10:49,756 Maybe you need to collect forensics data because you don't know what 229 00:10:49,756 --> 00:10:51,406 data has been Maybe exfiltrated. 230 00:10:52,431 --> 00:10:57,831 And all of those things take time and time costs money, both from a people 231 00:10:57,831 --> 00:11:02,631 and resource perspective, and also your business may be down for however long 232 00:11:02,631 --> 00:11:04,791 it takes you to actually do all of this. 233 00:11:05,986 --> 00:11:06,886 Yeah, absolutely. 234 00:11:07,546 --> 00:11:12,406 And now we're gonna take a look at a Forbes article from Tom Coughlin, somebody 235 00:11:12,406 --> 00:11:17,716 I know well, um, you know, he, he covers the space quite a bit and he wrote a, 236 00:11:17,806 --> 00:11:22,216 he wrote a pretty good article where he, you know, he, he gets some insights from. 237 00:11:22,441 --> 00:11:25,501 You know, random people around the, the internet. 238 00:11:25,921 --> 00:11:31,051 I, I think, um, or random people that are interested in this topic. 239 00:11:31,876 --> 00:11:36,751 The, the first quote that sticks out to me from Richard Copeland, the CEO of Lease 240 00:11:36,751 --> 00:11:40,711 Web, uh, you know, he was saying that if you have no backup, no safety net. 241 00:11:41,026 --> 00:11:44,626 What you have coming ahead of you is downtime, financial 242 00:11:44,926 --> 00:11:46,786 hemorrhaging, and a lot of regret. 243 00:11:47,251 --> 00:11:47,641 Yeah. 244 00:11:47,746 --> 00:11:48,856 just thought that was kind of funny. 245 00:11:49,456 --> 00:11:52,541 Um, any, anything that stuck out for you? 246 00:11:53,101 --> 00:12:00,271 Uh, so I know that, uh, Laura, or I know that Lance O'Hara talks 247 00:12:00,376 --> 00:12:00,706 Uhhuh? 248 00:12:01,171 --> 00:12:04,951 sort of 3, 2, 1 rule for data storage, which is if you've ever 249 00:12:04,951 --> 00:12:06,546 listened to this podcast, right. 250 00:12:06,966 --> 00:12:08,311 We always talk about it. 251 00:12:08,341 --> 00:12:08,641 But 252 00:12:08,651 --> 00:12:09,001 Right. 253 00:12:09,571 --> 00:12:14,061 but One interesting thing that the article says though, is for consumers, right? 254 00:12:14,481 --> 00:12:16,941 Your original data on your laptop is one copy. 255 00:12:16,971 --> 00:12:17,091 A 256 00:12:17,361 --> 00:12:17,781 Right. 257 00:12:18,081 --> 00:12:23,871 device is a second copy, and a cloud copy is your third copy, right? 258 00:12:23,871 --> 00:12:26,031 And that's how you make sure that you have. 259 00:12:26,541 --> 00:12:29,601 Uh, three copies of your data, right on 260 00:12:29,631 --> 00:12:29,991 Yep. 261 00:12:30,231 --> 00:12:32,061 media, one of which is offsite. 262 00:12:32,061 --> 00:12:37,431 And so that is something that I think as consumers, sometimes we don't follow. 263 00:12:37,431 --> 00:12:41,601 In fact, I would say even some backup folks who work in the industry 264 00:12:41,601 --> 00:12:43,041 for their own personal stuff may 265 00:12:43,116 --> 00:12:44,046 Yeah, including me. 266 00:12:44,136 --> 00:12:44,826 Including me. 267 00:12:45,006 --> 00:12:51,396 I, I mean, that's one way I, I would, you know, because you, you 268 00:12:51,576 --> 00:12:55,086 technically, that's a 3, 3, 1, right? 269 00:12:55,146 --> 00:12:59,016 Because you, you, you want to have it on two different types of media. 270 00:12:59,826 --> 00:13:02,856 Uh, you know, two different storage mechanisms, however you wanna put it. 271 00:13:02,976 --> 00:13:06,336 In this case, it's both this, so it's not, it's technically the same media, but, 272 00:13:06,816 --> 00:13:09,486 but it, it's a different system, right? 273 00:13:09,936 --> 00:13:14,136 Um, if you have it on your laptop and on your cloud, I think that, you 274 00:13:14,136 --> 00:13:17,811 know, in a backup cloud provider, I think that that satisfies 3, 2, 1. 275 00:13:17,811 --> 00:13:20,016 What he's describing, I think is a 3, 3, 1. 276 00:13:20,016 --> 00:13:21,726 You have it on three different types of media. 277 00:13:22,296 --> 00:13:24,186 Um, I don't have a problem with what he's suggesting. 278 00:13:24,186 --> 00:13:27,006 I'm just saying I don't think you're doing anything wrong if you're using a 279 00:13:27,216 --> 00:13:27,366 The 280 00:13:27,576 --> 00:13:28,686 direct to cloud backup. 281 00:13:29,286 --> 00:13:29,676 Yeah. 282 00:13:29,766 --> 00:13:30,156 Yeah. 283 00:13:30,186 --> 00:13:30,606 you decide 284 00:13:30,606 --> 00:13:31,116 Um, 285 00:13:31,366 --> 00:13:33,666 2, 5, that's totally fine. 286 00:13:36,696 --> 00:13:38,856 well, I don't think it's not possible to have one. 287 00:13:38,856 --> 00:13:39,336 Yeah, okay. 288 00:13:39,336 --> 00:13:40,296 You could have 3, 2, 5. 289 00:13:40,296 --> 00:13:40,476 Yeah. 290 00:13:40,656 --> 00:13:40,866 Yeah. 291 00:13:41,376 --> 00:13:48,786 Uh, um, and the, the, he was, uh, that, that guy was from sea, uh, Seagate. 292 00:13:48,916 --> 00:13:49,136 Yes. 293 00:13:50,071 --> 00:13:52,686 Um, um, the, uh, let's see. 294 00:13:52,926 --> 00:13:55,206 Lemme skip over the catalog logic guy. 295 00:13:55,356 --> 00:13:56,466 Um. 296 00:13:59,601 --> 00:14:00,381 Uh, Veeam. 297 00:14:00,386 --> 00:14:03,576 Veeam had some comments in the article where they talked about, 298 00:14:03,576 --> 00:14:06,846 you know, recommending more than just cloud storage again. 299 00:14:06,846 --> 00:14:07,476 Interesting. 300 00:14:07,776 --> 00:14:09,546 Uh, again, I don't have a problem with that. 301 00:14:10,416 --> 00:14:15,216 If you have a product like Veeam that can help automate having an onsite 302 00:14:15,216 --> 00:14:20,136 copy and an offsite copy, um, then that is absolutely the way to go. 303 00:14:20,196 --> 00:14:20,646 Right. 304 00:14:21,096 --> 00:14:23,706 Um, and the. 305 00:14:24,471 --> 00:14:29,241 Uh, uh, my challenge was if we're talking about consumers, that's 306 00:14:29,301 --> 00:14:32,211 typically not something that's gonna be available to them, but, 307 00:14:32,346 --> 00:14:32,406 Yeah. 308 00:14:32,571 --> 00:14:38,421 but from a, you know, enterprise standpoint, having a product like Veeam 309 00:14:38,511 --> 00:14:43,941 that can create an on on-site copy and an offsite copy, um, you know, 310 00:14:44,001 --> 00:14:45,651 in, in the cloud is a good thing. 311 00:14:45,696 --> 00:14:45,996 Yeah. 312 00:14:46,356 --> 00:14:50,556 Of course, if we didn't talk about your favorite subject, Curtis, 313 00:14:50,711 --> 00:14:51,131 Mm-hmm. 314 00:14:51,216 --> 00:14:53,591 think that we could consider this world backup day. 315 00:14:54,241 --> 00:14:54,591 Right? 316 00:14:55,371 --> 00:14:55,591 But 317 00:14:56,826 --> 00:14:59,491 I'm curious what, what you think my favorite subject is, but go ahead. 318 00:14:59,661 --> 00:15:06,231 Uh, so we do have a couple quotes from, people in the tape industry. 319 00:15:06,721 --> 00:15:07,541 Ah, yeah. 320 00:15:07,866 --> 00:15:12,126 Who, uh, mentioned sort of okay, why the importance of tape. 321 00:15:12,216 --> 00:15:15,276 And also if you listen to one of our pre previous episodes, 322 00:15:15,276 --> 00:15:17,466 we talked about air gaps, right? 323 00:15:17,481 --> 00:15:17,841 Yep. 324 00:15:17,886 --> 00:15:22,566 is actually one of the things that, uh, is, uh, called out by Rich 325 00:15:22,566 --> 00:15:25,236 Gadomski from the Active Archive 326 00:15:25,311 --> 00:15:25,821 Of course. 327 00:15:25,821 --> 00:15:26,391 Rich. 328 00:15:26,571 --> 00:15:27,501 Rich and Mitch. 329 00:15:27,561 --> 00:15:29,846 Rich and Mitch from, uh, spectra Logic. 330 00:15:30,051 --> 00:15:30,321 Yeah. 331 00:15:30,321 --> 00:15:32,601 And then Bob Fine over at Quantum. 332 00:15:32,601 --> 00:15:32,961 Right. 333 00:15:32,961 --> 00:15:37,101 Just talking about sort of air gap storage systems. 334 00:15:37,491 --> 00:15:37,911 Right. 335 00:15:37,911 --> 00:15:42,531 And using it for keeping secure copies of their data, especially in 336 00:15:42,531 --> 00:15:44,511 different Geo Geographic locations. 337 00:15:45,411 --> 00:15:48,081 So we're gonna do, we're gonna do a 3, 4, 1, or the three? 338 00:15:48,081 --> 00:15:48,771 The four. 339 00:15:49,281 --> 00:15:49,671 The four. 340 00:15:50,811 --> 00:15:54,081 So we're gonna have a copy on, on, you know, our primary copy. 341 00:15:54,561 --> 00:15:58,041 We're gonna make copy on disc, a copy on tape, and a copy in the cloud. 342 00:15:58,191 --> 00:15:58,521 Yep. 343 00:15:59,181 --> 00:15:59,631 That's four. 344 00:15:59,691 --> 00:16:00,081 It's four. 345 00:16:00,081 --> 00:16:00,651 Four four. 346 00:16:00,876 --> 00:16:01,206 Yep. 347 00:16:01,311 --> 00:16:02,901 Um, yeah. 348 00:16:03,006 --> 00:16:03,516 a question. 349 00:16:04,071 --> 00:16:04,491 Yeah. 350 00:16:04,836 --> 00:16:09,636 We never really know what the cloud is doing, so is it technically 351 00:16:09,636 --> 00:16:11,076 considered a different media? 352 00:16:12,816 --> 00:16:18,576 Well, it's, again, it's, it's, it's, the question is, it's a different risk profile 353 00:16:18,636 --> 00:16:20,646 is basically what the idea is, right? 354 00:16:20,976 --> 00:16:22,566 You, the idea is that you're not. 355 00:16:22,601 --> 00:16:22,721 I. 356 00:16:23,331 --> 00:16:27,351 You're not storing if, if, if you, if you're clearly storing something on 357 00:16:27,351 --> 00:16:31,611 exactly the same hardware and exactly the same storage, like for example, this all 358 00:16:31,611 --> 00:16:33,171 started with the digital camera, right? 359 00:16:33,186 --> 00:16:33,456 Yeah. 360 00:16:33,561 --> 00:16:37,221 If you just put the, if you put the, I, I had a digital camera 361 00:16:37,221 --> 00:16:38,991 that would automatically twin. 362 00:16:39,231 --> 00:16:42,386 Every time it wrote something, it would write it on two different SD cards. 363 00:16:42,721 --> 00:16:42,941 Yep. 364 00:16:43,246 --> 00:16:43,666 That's. 365 00:16:44,481 --> 00:16:46,821 Two different things with exactly the same risk profile. 366 00:16:46,821 --> 00:16:49,641 That's what he's trying to talk, you know, given that this all started 367 00:16:50,016 --> 00:16:50,406 By, 368 00:16:50,631 --> 00:16:53,361 the digital back or digital photography world. 369 00:16:53,526 --> 00:16:56,646 the way, if people aren't aware, we did an episode actually. 370 00:16:57,546 --> 00:16:59,821 With the person who coined the 3, 2, 1 rule. 371 00:16:59,871 --> 00:17:03,201 Yeah, yeah, we did, we interviewed that and, uh, I gotta see if I can 372 00:17:03,201 --> 00:17:04,731 find that and put that in as a comment. 373 00:17:04,761 --> 00:17:04,941 Yeah. 374 00:17:04,941 --> 00:17:09,141 That was a, was a fascinating, you know, and, and I wonder, I, I still 375 00:17:09,141 --> 00:17:10,581 like, wonder what it's like to. 376 00:17:11,496 --> 00:17:15,486 Know that you coined something back so long ago, I think it was the nineties. 377 00:17:15,546 --> 00:17:20,796 And then to see, to see, to see how common it's become in, in backup design. 378 00:17:20,946 --> 00:17:21,456 I am sorry 379 00:17:21,516 --> 00:17:22,146 I like that. 380 00:17:22,356 --> 00:17:26,976 CDP still has not near synchronous, I think, what do you call it? 381 00:17:27,486 --> 00:17:30,516 Near CDP, near CDP, the term I coined, 382 00:17:30,726 --> 00:17:31,176 Yes. 383 00:17:31,326 --> 00:17:36,036 not, certainly not to the degree that, uh, that 3, 2, 1 rule. 384 00:17:38,166 --> 00:17:39,456 Um, so. 385 00:17:39,486 --> 00:17:42,036 else in this article that you thought was interesting? 386 00:17:42,456 --> 00:17:43,026 Uh, let's see. 387 00:17:43,026 --> 00:17:49,326 Well, so Molly, uh, Molly Presley, uh, somebody I know well from Hammer Space, 388 00:17:49,776 --> 00:17:54,576 uh, she talked about, um, you know, again, the need for automated, right. 389 00:17:54,576 --> 00:17:56,916 Automated data protection, and I could not agree more. 390 00:17:57,186 --> 00:17:57,576 Right? 391 00:17:57,816 --> 00:18:03,426 And we alluded to that with the Veeam discussion where, you know, 392 00:18:03,456 --> 00:18:04,896 all of this needs to be automated. 393 00:18:04,896 --> 00:18:06,546 The more you have the human. 394 00:18:07,296 --> 00:18:10,266 Uh, involved in things, the worst things are gonna be right. 395 00:18:11,826 --> 00:18:12,576 And so, yeah. 396 00:18:12,696 --> 00:18:13,926 Uh, a agreed. 397 00:18:14,286 --> 00:18:15,726 will take over everything, Curtis. 398 00:18:15,726 --> 00:18:16,806 And then what are we gonna do? 399 00:18:17,556 --> 00:18:20,406 Um, yeah, that's a great question. 400 00:18:20,946 --> 00:18:22,656 The robots can take over my house cleaning. 401 00:18:23,089 --> 00:18:25,189 Have you never seen Battlestar Galactica? 402 00:18:26,029 --> 00:18:30,079 I, I've seen both of the Battlestar Gala galas. 403 00:18:30,079 --> 00:18:30,889 Thank you very much. 404 00:18:31,649 --> 00:18:37,439 The next we have is an article from Kevin Perot. 405 00:18:38,819 --> 00:18:39,959 It's a French last name. 406 00:18:42,674 --> 00:18:43,124 I don't know. 407 00:18:43,524 --> 00:18:43,814 Sorry 408 00:18:43,814 --> 00:18:44,624 apologize. 409 00:18:45,344 --> 00:18:46,094 I, yeah. 410 00:18:46,214 --> 00:18:48,284 Kevin French, last name. 411 00:18:48,884 --> 00:18:53,924 Um, and one of the first thing you know, he, he talked about how 412 00:18:53,924 --> 00:18:57,434 he felt there was this growing awareness of backup, which is good. 413 00:18:57,434 --> 00:19:01,574 There was a survey from Western Digital that said that, uh, 87% of 414 00:19:01,574 --> 00:19:05,474 people reported backing up their consumers reported backing up their 415 00:19:05,479 --> 00:19:07,729 data automatically or manually. 416 00:19:07,964 --> 00:19:08,264 is 417 00:19:08,474 --> 00:19:09,344 an in what? 418 00:19:10,454 --> 00:19:11,054 Is that it? 419 00:19:11,354 --> 00:19:12,284 Does that surprise you? 420 00:19:12,344 --> 00:19:16,844 That's, yeah, that is super I would not 421 00:19:16,934 --> 00:19:17,954 That's what I thought too. 422 00:19:18,164 --> 00:19:18,404 that 423 00:19:18,434 --> 00:19:18,824 Yeah. 424 00:19:18,974 --> 00:19:22,904 be at that level unless I do wonder if they are considering 425 00:19:22,904 --> 00:19:28,159 things like Google Drive syncing, like Google One or using Apple 426 00:19:28,514 --> 00:19:28,724 Uh. 427 00:19:29,309 --> 00:19:29,759 Yeah. 428 00:19:29,819 --> 00:19:30,449 iCloud. 429 00:19:30,509 --> 00:19:30,719 Yeah. 430 00:19:30,719 --> 00:19:31,679 I backup my phone. 431 00:19:31,709 --> 00:19:32,489 I use iCloud. 432 00:19:32,519 --> 00:19:32,879 Yeah. 433 00:19:33,269 --> 00:19:36,569 Which, you know, we have an episode on why iCloud is not backup. 434 00:19:37,289 --> 00:19:38,939 It's it's synchronization. 435 00:19:38,939 --> 00:19:39,779 It's not backup. 436 00:19:40,109 --> 00:19:44,369 Uh, delete your files on your, you know, what, what the most common, the way that 437 00:19:44,369 --> 00:19:46,079 people find out that it's, that it's. 438 00:19:46,569 --> 00:19:50,199 A synchronization, not backup, is that they, they get a new phone 439 00:19:50,679 --> 00:19:53,559 and then they decide to delete all the pictures on their old phone. 440 00:19:54,039 --> 00:19:55,539 Instead of just wiping the phone. 441 00:19:55,869 --> 00:19:59,949 They actually go in and delete all their pictures before they disconnect 442 00:19:59,949 --> 00:20:02,019 it from their iCloud account and they end up deleting all the 443 00:20:02,019 --> 00:20:03,044 pictures in their iCloud account. 444 00:20:03,269 --> 00:20:07,109 And, and in fact, one of the interesting things from that, right, is the top 445 00:20:07,109 --> 00:20:10,229 reasons for backing it up, losing files, 446 00:20:10,959 --> 00:20:10,960 Yeah. 447 00:20:11,339 --> 00:20:14,189 up space on their device and to protect against cyber threats. 448 00:20:14,189 --> 00:20:17,069 But the first two are significantly higher than the last one. 449 00:20:17,069 --> 00:20:17,879 Percentage wise. 450 00:20:18,314 --> 00:20:19,544 Yeah, that is weird, right? 451 00:20:19,634 --> 00:20:21,884 Only 42% to protect against cyber threats. 452 00:20:22,004 --> 00:20:25,634 And by the way, I don't, I don't like this idea that backup is for 453 00:20:25,634 --> 00:20:29,414 freeing up space on your device, but that's, that's just because, yeah. 454 00:20:29,504 --> 00:20:30,854 So you were going the same place. 455 00:20:31,024 --> 00:20:31,334 Yeah, 456 00:20:31,544 --> 00:20:35,414 I mean, I understand it's being pedantic, but backup is not for 457 00:20:35,414 --> 00:20:36,644 freeing up space on your device. 458 00:20:36,644 --> 00:20:38,114 That's what archiving is for. 459 00:20:38,444 --> 00:20:40,424 But I understand that the average person doesn't know the 460 00:20:40,424 --> 00:20:41,504 difference between the two, but. 461 00:20:41,534 --> 00:20:44,174 come on, as Western Digital, you should know the difference, 462 00:20:46,454 --> 00:20:46,844 you know? 463 00:20:46,934 --> 00:20:52,634 So then they go into obviously the, you know, double extortion, uh, the, the 464 00:20:52,634 --> 00:20:57,854 title of this particular article is Why backup is not Enough, and Because why does 465 00:20:57,854 --> 00:20:59,504 backup not help with double extortion? 466 00:20:59,774 --> 00:21:01,454 Curtis, what is double extortion? 467 00:21:01,964 --> 00:21:04,304 Well, I was gonna let you, I was gonna let you define it. 468 00:21:04,389 --> 00:21:05,089 you define it. 469 00:21:05,924 --> 00:21:06,224 Okay. 470 00:21:06,224 --> 00:21:06,674 So the idea. 471 00:21:07,349 --> 00:21:09,539 Good after you. 472 00:21:09,899 --> 00:21:13,169 Uh, so basically double extortion is where, you know, they've stolen your 473 00:21:13,169 --> 00:21:18,899 data and there's a traditional extortion where you're gonna encrypt all the data 474 00:21:19,259 --> 00:21:23,399 and, um, you can have it, you can have it de-encrypted if you pay the ransom. 475 00:21:23,699 --> 00:21:26,159 Double extortion is where they steal the data. 476 00:21:26,579 --> 00:21:28,919 And, um, and then they will say. 477 00:21:29,129 --> 00:21:32,009 We're either going to, um, we're going to publish. 478 00:21:32,009 --> 00:21:35,279 The general thing is that they're going to publish the data, basically 479 00:21:35,279 --> 00:21:39,599 releasing your, your trade secrets or perhaps stuff that's embarrassing to you. 480 00:21:40,109 --> 00:21:42,929 Um, and that, that's why it's called double extortion 481 00:21:43,139 --> 00:21:43,289 The 482 00:21:43,409 --> 00:21:44,354 and, yeah. 483 00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:46,169 common example, 484 00:21:46,259 --> 00:21:46,739 Yeah. 485 00:21:46,769 --> 00:21:51,389 example of double extortion where they stole a bunch of sensitive emails 486 00:21:52,109 --> 00:21:55,529 and threatened to publish 'em, and I think they ended up publishing them 487 00:21:56,324 --> 00:21:56,834 They did. 488 00:21:57,764 --> 00:22:02,534 And, you know, and, and a lot of actors were upset over how the, the studio talked 489 00:22:02,534 --> 00:22:04,394 about them behind the, behind their back. 490 00:22:04,394 --> 00:22:07,124 But you know what, uh, the studio recovered anyway. 491 00:22:07,574 --> 00:22:11,984 Um, but what, so why doesn't backup help with that? 492 00:22:12,104 --> 00:22:18,464 Yeah, because you can't prevent the second 493 00:22:19,154 --> 00:22:19,394 Yeah. 494 00:22:19,424 --> 00:22:21,164 of that double extortion scheme. 495 00:22:21,164 --> 00:22:22,184 You know, like 496 00:22:22,274 --> 00:22:22,694 Yep. 497 00:22:22,814 --> 00:22:27,434 gonna help you prevent data from being taken out of your company. 498 00:22:27,974 --> 00:22:28,664 I. Right. 499 00:22:28,664 --> 00:22:36,224 They, you need to use like, uh, endpoint detection, response solution, EDR or 500 00:22:36,224 --> 00:22:41,054 other things in order to prevent data from leaking or leaving your environment. 501 00:22:41,264 --> 00:22:42,489 Backups aren't gonna help you with that. 502 00:22:43,304 --> 00:22:44,174 Yep, yep. 503 00:22:44,834 --> 00:22:46,304 It's um, yep. 504 00:22:46,904 --> 00:22:50,954 And, and just since there's now double extortion, or we just talked about 505 00:22:50,954 --> 00:22:53,654 double extortion, have you heard about this triple extortion thing? 506 00:22:54,704 --> 00:22:54,824 What? 507 00:22:55,574 --> 00:22:56,864 No, no, I haven't. 508 00:22:57,854 --> 00:22:58,094 What? 509 00:22:58,184 --> 00:22:58,454 What? 510 00:22:58,454 --> 00:22:59,654 What is triple extortion? 511 00:22:59,684 --> 00:23:01,904 you pay, the bad 512 00:23:02,024 --> 00:23:02,054 Uhhuh? 513 00:23:02,354 --> 00:23:09,044 still leave the hooks in place other, and then they sell access to other people 514 00:23:09,239 --> 00:23:09,459 Ugh. 515 00:23:09,584 --> 00:23:11,929 use that same access to get into your systems again. 516 00:23:12,734 --> 00:23:13,274 No bueno. 517 00:23:13,279 --> 00:23:13,569 Yeah. 518 00:23:14,789 --> 00:23:18,509 What I liked best about this particular article is that they have a seven step 519 00:23:18,509 --> 00:23:21,749 roadmap for data resilience, which I was actually pretty impressed with. 520 00:23:22,169 --> 00:23:23,909 A lot of these just leave this stuff out. 521 00:23:23,909 --> 00:23:26,909 The first thing they talk about is assessing risk, right? 522 00:23:27,149 --> 00:23:29,189 You know, figure out what you have, assess the risk. 523 00:23:29,399 --> 00:23:32,819 Then you need a plan that involves an RTO and an RPO. 524 00:23:32,879 --> 00:23:33,839 I like that, right? 525 00:23:33,839 --> 00:23:36,479 Encompasses on-premises and cloud assets. 526 00:23:37,064 --> 00:23:39,944 Uh, and then number three, immutable storage. 527 00:23:39,974 --> 00:23:40,604 I like that. 528 00:23:40,634 --> 00:23:41,024 Right? 529 00:23:41,504 --> 00:23:46,544 Uh, and then we have, um, you know, the, the, and also secure on-premises storage. 530 00:23:46,544 --> 00:23:49,244 So I love that they got the cloud, they got the on-premises 531 00:23:49,244 --> 00:23:53,264 storage, uh, you know, and then continually evaluating your backup 532 00:23:53,264 --> 00:23:55,304 infrastructure against best practices. 533 00:23:55,844 --> 00:23:59,714 You have a security culture that is definitely important, right? 534 00:24:00,194 --> 00:24:03,974 Uh, and then also make sure your third party data is also backed up. 535 00:24:04,264 --> 00:24:04,984 That's a number. 536 00:24:04,984 --> 00:24:07,594 That's one that so many companies leave out, right? 537 00:24:07,814 --> 00:24:08,024 The 538 00:24:08,224 --> 00:24:08,554 Um, 539 00:24:08,564 --> 00:24:09,824 thing I, I like the list. 540 00:24:09,824 --> 00:24:12,854 The only thing I would add is a zero step zero, 541 00:24:13,329 --> 00:24:13,749 mm-hmm. 542 00:24:13,904 --> 00:24:19,004 is work with the business to understand what is important for your company. 543 00:24:19,704 --> 00:24:21,269 I, I thought the same thing. 544 00:24:21,329 --> 00:24:25,259 Uh, when I, when I read two, like, it, it, it just sort of assumes 545 00:24:25,259 --> 00:24:26,909 that you have an RTO and an RPO. 546 00:24:26,909 --> 00:24:31,589 It doesn't, doesn't say, you know, make sure you get, make sure you work with the 547 00:24:31,589 --> 00:24:36,509 business to get an RTO and an RPO, uh, because you, you can't do, uh, backup and 548 00:24:36,509 --> 00:24:38,669 recovery in, in a, in a vacuum, right? 549 00:24:40,049 --> 00:24:41,609 Um, and, um, 550 00:24:41,969 --> 00:24:42,479 this was a 551 00:24:42,539 --> 00:24:42,839 yeah. 552 00:24:43,019 --> 00:24:43,919 article and 553 00:24:44,204 --> 00:24:44,594 Yep. 554 00:24:44,789 --> 00:24:48,359 good points that people should be following when it comes to 555 00:24:48,494 --> 00:24:48,854 Yep. 556 00:24:49,524 --> 00:24:53,214 I saw a lot of common threads in there. 557 00:24:53,364 --> 00:24:57,534 You know, we saw our, we, we saw a lot of our favorite topics come up, right? 558 00:24:57,864 --> 00:25:03,234 One of which is the 3, 2, 1 rule and the big thing, I think the, the number one. 559 00:25:04,479 --> 00:25:12,939 Sort of use for that today, I think is against the idea that your SaaS 560 00:25:13,119 --> 00:25:14,889 provider is backing up your data. 561 00:25:15,339 --> 00:25:19,689 Because even if they are, it's like backing up your hard drive 562 00:25:19,689 --> 00:25:22,089 to your hard drive, right? 563 00:25:22,869 --> 00:25:27,789 Um, and so the 3, 2, 1 rule, it's like if, if you're, if you don't 564 00:25:27,939 --> 00:25:30,429 have a copy of your data outside. 565 00:25:30,864 --> 00:25:34,914 Of the infrastructure that's being used to produce the, you know, it 566 00:25:34,914 --> 00:25:37,044 violates, it's not any of the thing. 567 00:25:37,044 --> 00:25:39,294 It might be the three, right? 568 00:25:39,324 --> 00:25:44,514 In fact, many people don't even have the three many people like 569 00:25:44,514 --> 00:25:46,224 again, to pick on my favorite. 570 00:25:46,689 --> 00:25:51,759 Uh, provider, Microsoft, many people are using Microsoft 365 571 00:25:52,389 --> 00:25:53,709 and they're not backing it up. 572 00:25:53,829 --> 00:25:56,469 And they're like, oh, well I have the recycle bin, you know, or 573 00:25:56,469 --> 00:25:58,449 I have the, whatever, you know, I have the retention period. 574 00:25:58,449 --> 00:26:03,159 You know, and it's like, yeah, but it's not, it's not even a three, it's one copy. 575 00:26:03,159 --> 00:26:06,759 It's one table in a database, right? 576 00:26:07,329 --> 00:26:12,159 Which might be okay for their particular use case, but it is not 577 00:26:12,159 --> 00:26:16,809 gonna cover all use cases that you think about when it comes to backup. 578 00:26:17,319 --> 00:26:21,459 It is not gonna cover like a ransomware attack or, you know, or, or like some of 579 00:26:21,459 --> 00:26:24,669 the stuff we've covered where a company accidentally deletes their entire account. 580 00:26:24,684 --> 00:26:24,924 Yeah. 581 00:26:24,999 --> 00:26:25,359 Right. 582 00:26:26,799 --> 00:26:27,729 Um, 583 00:26:27,864 --> 00:26:29,874 thing we have not really talked about 584 00:26:30,249 --> 00:26:31,389 in this, what, 585 00:26:32,514 --> 00:26:33,834 is immutable storage. 586 00:26:34,509 --> 00:26:36,249 what, no, it came up, it came up in the. 587 00:26:36,354 --> 00:26:38,244 ubi barely though, right? 588 00:26:38,604 --> 00:26:40,914 We didn't really cover like the 589 00:26:40,929 --> 00:26:41,469 Yeah. 590 00:26:41,529 --> 00:26:41,829 Why? 591 00:26:41,889 --> 00:26:44,319 Why do we talk about immutable storage so much here? 592 00:26:44,394 --> 00:26:49,314 Well, because as we've talked about in various, uh, ransomware scenarios, right, 593 00:26:49,734 --> 00:26:52,854 the bad actors are getting smarter, and the first thing that they're attacking 594 00:26:52,854 --> 00:26:54,789 now is your backup infrastructure. 595 00:26:55,044 --> 00:26:55,374 Yeah. 596 00:26:55,599 --> 00:26:59,229 in, they find it, it has all the data they need so they can figure 597 00:26:59,229 --> 00:27:02,679 out what's important, exfiltrate the data, and then they blow away all 598 00:27:02,679 --> 00:27:04,239 your backups so you can't recover. 599 00:27:04,239 --> 00:27:09,729 So you then have to pay the ransom in order to get your infrastructure back. 600 00:27:10,194 --> 00:27:15,534 Exactly, and, and you know, with the folks at, uh, I mean, they're not the only one, 601 00:27:15,534 --> 00:27:19,404 but they, but they're definitely going directly after this particular problem. 602 00:27:19,404 --> 00:27:22,279 They're like, we're gonna make sure that at least one copy of your data. 603 00:27:22,794 --> 00:27:27,324 Is 100% immutable because most of the other, many of the other 604 00:27:27,954 --> 00:27:32,814 immutable options, as I make air quotes, they're not really immutable. 605 00:27:32,814 --> 00:27:36,054 And by the way, we had, we had a whole episode about that recently, right? 606 00:27:36,054 --> 00:27:39,954 Where we talked about the different things that people mean when they say immutable. 607 00:27:40,614 --> 00:27:43,794 Um, but this is, you know, actual immutability, right? 608 00:27:43,854 --> 00:27:46,854 Um, even if you have the super user privileges, you're not 609 00:27:46,854 --> 00:27:47,844 able to get rid of the data. 610 00:27:48,414 --> 00:27:52,254 Um, so yeah, immutable storage is, is absolutely. 611 00:27:52,464 --> 00:27:53,544 Uh, crucial. 612 00:27:53,664 --> 00:27:55,074 So is a cloud copy. 613 00:27:55,074 --> 00:27:59,334 I think even if you have on premises backup infrastructure, if it's possible 614 00:27:59,754 --> 00:28:04,194 for you to have a cloud copy of your data, I think that a, again, an immutable cloud 615 00:28:04,194 --> 00:28:08,214 copy of your data, my favorite way to do that would be to put it on an actual 616 00:28:08,214 --> 00:28:14,694 immutable, a truly immutable product like object lock with the compliance mode. 617 00:28:14,814 --> 00:28:15,234 Right. 618 00:28:15,564 --> 00:28:18,654 Um, so that you, so it's truly immutable. 619 00:28:19,329 --> 00:28:20,529 So here's a question for you. 620 00:28:21,024 --> 00:28:21,414 Yeah. 621 00:28:23,439 --> 00:28:27,279 Immutable cloud copy storage versus tape, 622 00:28:30,009 --> 00:28:30,969 what would you pick? 623 00:28:32,874 --> 00:28:33,384 Or 624 00:28:33,399 --> 00:28:33,689 Well, 625 00:28:33,924 --> 00:28:39,804 would you, how would a customer or a backup admin decide what to pick? 626 00:28:39,804 --> 00:28:42,924 Because we talk about tape a lot, we talk about cloud storage a lot. 627 00:28:42,924 --> 00:28:45,204 Tape does offer immutable copies. 628 00:28:45,519 --> 00:28:45,809 Yeah. 629 00:28:46,314 --> 00:28:46,704 Right? 630 00:28:47,004 --> 00:28:48,714 But between these, 631 00:28:48,714 --> 00:28:50,574 And it's enforced in the hardware, right? 632 00:28:50,574 --> 00:28:53,604 If it's, if it's immutable flag, you can't, you can't overwrite that. 633 00:28:53,874 --> 00:28:55,734 So between these two, 634 00:28:55,969 --> 00:28:56,259 Yeah. 635 00:28:57,924 --> 00:29:02,004 Like how would a backup person decide which one to use? 636 00:29:02,454 --> 00:29:03,654 Yeah, that's a great question. 637 00:29:04,074 --> 00:29:08,944 Um, so the question would be as to whether, which one is 638 00:29:08,944 --> 00:29:10,474 able to meet your requirements? 639 00:29:10,474 --> 00:29:10,864 Right. 640 00:29:12,034 --> 00:29:14,824 Tape is great for. 641 00:29:15,244 --> 00:29:17,194 Certain things, right? 642 00:29:17,524 --> 00:29:21,244 Being the additional copy, if you've already got a copy on disc, 643 00:29:21,634 --> 00:29:23,614 easily copying that copy to tape. 644 00:29:23,764 --> 00:29:27,514 It is not good for creating that first initial copy for most people. 645 00:29:27,994 --> 00:29:31,924 But creating a a, you know, a salt mine copy, it's great for that. 646 00:29:32,434 --> 00:29:36,994 What it's not great for is operational recovery of a lot of 647 00:29:36,994 --> 00:29:41,794 small files and, um, and also, um. 648 00:29:42,484 --> 00:29:46,534 You know, so the question would be, look at how often you do 649 00:29:46,594 --> 00:29:50,824 operational recovery and see whether or not tape would make sense there. 650 00:29:51,214 --> 00:29:59,134 But if you, um, I, I think that either a truly immutable cloud copy or tape 651 00:30:00,844 --> 00:30:05,134 are, are perfectly viable and it's, it's gonna be a matter of personal preference. 652 00:30:05,314 --> 00:30:09,604 So the question is, you know, it's that value of sneaker net. 653 00:30:10,279 --> 00:30:15,139 So depending on how much data we're talking about, a pile of tapes is gonna 654 00:30:15,139 --> 00:30:19,459 be actually quicker than a cloud copy that we've gotta pull across the internet. 655 00:30:19,474 --> 00:30:19,684 Yeah. 656 00:30:19,909 --> 00:30:25,459 So yeah, it just depends on the scenario and what your RTO and RPO 657 00:30:25,459 --> 00:30:32,959 are and your tolerance for the, the downsides of both technologies. 658 00:30:34,264 --> 00:30:36,724 Okay, so last question for you. 659 00:30:36,724 --> 00:30:39,274 And tape will be cheaper, by the way, in mo in most 660 00:30:39,274 --> 00:30:40,504 scenarios, tape will be cheaper. 661 00:30:40,849 --> 00:30:47,749 So given World Backup Day passed, is there anything that you think people 662 00:30:47,749 --> 00:30:52,939 should look out for, for the rest of until the next world backup day? 663 00:30:54,139 --> 00:30:55,519 Is there anything that people should do? 664 00:30:55,519 --> 00:30:57,499 Like what recommendation or what guidance? 665 00:30:57,499 --> 00:31:01,489 What would you tell people now that World Backup Day has passed 666 00:31:01,489 --> 00:31:02,839 as well as April Fool's Day? 667 00:31:03,589 --> 00:31:03,739 Yeah, 668 00:31:04,339 --> 00:31:05,899 What would you recommend for people to do? 669 00:31:07,879 --> 00:31:09,979 so that's a great question. 670 00:31:10,219 --> 00:31:10,789 Um, 671 00:31:10,834 --> 00:31:11,914 course, it's a great question. 672 00:31:11,914 --> 00:31:12,364 Come on. 673 00:31:15,619 --> 00:31:18,679 so I'm, so I'm gonna assume, and I think I can assume that people 674 00:31:18,679 --> 00:31:21,739 listening to this episode, you're backing up your stuff, right? 675 00:31:21,859 --> 00:31:25,549 We're just gonna assume that what I will say is. 676 00:31:26,224 --> 00:31:30,904 There's a very distinct, very high possibility that you're not backing 677 00:31:30,904 --> 00:31:33,304 up some of your corporate data. 678 00:31:34,444 --> 00:31:34,834 And the more. 679 00:31:36,484 --> 00:31:41,374 SaaS providers that you're using, the more likely that is to be the case, right? 680 00:31:41,494 --> 00:31:46,684 So many people do not back up their SaaS data, and I, I think that, you 681 00:31:46,684 --> 00:31:49,594 know, as time goes on, we will see more and more outages and more and 682 00:31:49,594 --> 00:31:55,084 more people will, comp companies will suffer data loss, um, as a result 683 00:31:55,084 --> 00:31:56,524 of not backing up their SaaS data. 684 00:31:56,729 --> 00:32:02,069 Yeah, I actually just read an article this morning in the register where they talked 685 00:32:02,069 --> 00:32:04,799 about Keep It, which is a backup vendor 686 00:32:05,314 --> 00:32:05,734 Yeah, 687 00:32:05,879 --> 00:32:07,739 looking to expand to. 688 00:32:08,644 --> 00:32:12,364 Support many, many, many more SaaS applications because like you 689 00:32:12,364 --> 00:32:12,784 yeah, 690 00:32:13,354 --> 00:32:17,944 Enterprises, corporations are using more and more SaaS applications every 691 00:32:17,944 --> 00:32:19,564 day and they're not being protected. 692 00:32:20,224 --> 00:32:20,674 yeah. 693 00:32:20,824 --> 00:32:23,974 And there are a handful of companies that are going after that. 694 00:32:24,454 --> 00:32:25,024 After that. 695 00:32:25,024 --> 00:32:26,584 And I highly recommend that they do that. 696 00:32:26,771 --> 00:32:31,441 All right, that wraps up our post World Backup Day coverage Prasanna. 697 00:32:31,801 --> 00:32:33,061 Thanks for hanging out again. 698 00:32:33,556 --> 00:32:36,316 And happy world backup day to you, Curtis, 699 00:32:36,781 --> 00:32:38,101 Belated, belated world. 700 00:32:38,101 --> 00:32:39,091 Backup day, sir. 701 00:32:39,526 --> 00:32:42,646 world backup day and hopefully next year you don't forget. 702 00:32:42,646 --> 00:32:48,286 And maybe, maybe it moves up to the second favorite day for you of the year. 703 00:32:48,286 --> 00:32:48,736 May, 704 00:32:48,931 --> 00:32:49,711 yeah, maybe. 705 00:32:49,771 --> 00:32:50,251 Maybe. 706 00:32:50,581 --> 00:32:50,911 Yeah. 707 00:32:50,956 --> 00:32:51,496 always hoping. 708 00:32:52,261 --> 00:32:52,981 Always hoping. 709 00:32:53,251 --> 00:32:56,161 All right, folks, back up your data please. 710 00:32:56,551 --> 00:32:59,191 Uh, you know, that's all, that's all we want you to do. 711 00:33:00,031 --> 00:33:02,251 'cause if you don't back it up, you can't restore it. 712 00:33:02,761 --> 00:33:03,361 That is a wrap.