You found the backup wrap up, your go-to podcast for all things
backup recovery and cyber recovery.
In this episode, we're talking about World Backup Day, which was March 31st.
I know I'm a little behind on this one, but I thought it was a really
good episode, rerecorded and uh, just got a little behind releasing it.
Prasanna and I discussed some scary statistics about data loss, like how.
94% of companies that suffer a major data loss don't recover.
We also talk about the famous 3, 2, 1 rule immutable backups and
why backing up your SaaS data.
It's something that many folks actually overlook.
Grab a coffee or whatever and check out our belated World Backup Day episode.
By the way, if you don't know who I am, I'm w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup,
and I've been specializing in backup and recovery for over 30 years, ever since.
I had to tell my boss that there were no backups of the production
database that we had just lost.
I don't want that to ever again happen to me.
I don't want it to happen to you.
That's why I do this podcast.
On this podcast, we turn unappreciated backup admins into Cyber Recovery Heroes.
This is the backup wrap up.
I.
Welcome to the show.
Hi, I am w Curtis Preston, AKA, Mr. Backup.
And with me, I have a guy that's trying to take the joy outta my most recent
Amazon purchase Prasanna, Molly Yodi.
How's it going?
Prasanna.
I am good, Curtis.
Now I'm trying to think.
Which Amazon purchase you are referring to?
Because I recommended something for you to purchase, and I'm
That
is more recent than what you are complaining about now.
I, I just received these
Oh, okay.
and
received quite a lot of Amazon purchases, I must say.
grande.
Are we sponsored by Amazon, by the way, or
We, we are not sponsored by Amazon.
I bought , these cool things based on a suggestion of somebody else.
Um, 'cause I, we we're, we're renting out now we, we have renters, we're
people are renting rooms in our house.
You know, it's, it's all the rage.
And, um, 'cause we're empty nesters.
And, uh, this person who does like YouTube videos on and, and she had
this thing, these little lights that, you know, they're small, they're like.
What is it?
Six inches long?
Yeah.
Um, and, and battery operated and, and motion detecting, you know, and,
and so you, you put 'em like in your halls and stuff and I, I bought a
bunch of them and you were saying you don't like where I'm gonna put 'em.
And you, you're taking away my joy.
so don't get me wrong, they're totally practical.
In places like closets where you're opening it, you need
to grab something quickly.
You can't see, there's no electrical there on stairs where you can't necessarily see
as you're approaching, but you wanna place it on a hall in a hallway where there are
Yes,
and there are light switches on either side of the hallway to turn it on and it,
but,
and
but not everybody wants to turn on a light just so they can go to the
bathroom in the middle of the night.
Don't you see that?
That is true.
See, you know, I'm just saying.
I think it's cool.
Anyway, I have joy and you're not gonna take away my joy.
Uh,
but wait, can we also talk about the up your previous Amazon purchase, which
that you recommended the The Robo Rock.
The Robo Rock, um, max, uh, yeah.
The, yeah, my new, my new Roomba replacement after Roomba, you know, my, my
$600 Roomba, that stopped working and then they want to charge me $300 to repair it.
I'm like, for $300 I can buy two Roba rocks.
and, and by the way, I think they're going bankrupt or about to declare
Yeah, Roomba.
Roomba is, yeah.
Yeah.
They're not doing so well.
and not done anything with it.
Yeah, that's true.
Yeah.
But I'm very happy with my new, my new, uh, I have two of them.
I gave them names, ups.
The one for upstairs is called Upsy Daisy, and the one for
downstairs is called Sir Clean.
Sir cleans a lot.
But, um, anyway, so, you know, we didn't do, we should have done a show.
This is a, this is a, I should have done a show, show.
We did not do a show for, you know, one of my favorite days, which is World
Backup Day, which is the day before April Fool's Day, because you know,
if you don't back up you're a fool.
but, and the funny thing is, I don't think you even remembered it was backup day
I didn't.
I've been very, I've been very busy.
I called you and was like, happy world backup day.
And you're like, wait, what?
What you said.
No, you said something like, happy favorite day or something.
yeah.
You said something.
I was like,
your third favorite day.
I think your first favorite day is your birthday.
The second favorite day is Christmas, and this is your third.
yeah.
And I was like, what in the hell are you talking about?
But I thought what we would do is, uh, just take a look at some
of the coverage that people did.
You know, sometimes people have some interesting insights.
Uh, around World backup Day, and obviously it's one of my favorite talk topics.
So I thought we'd take a look at some of the coverage and, and see if we can, you
know, deduce anything interesting from the stories and, uh, we'll, we'll include
links to all the stories that we're gonna, that we're gonna talk about in there.
The first story is from Sophia Barnett over at otbi, uh, object first.com.
And so, OT, what?
I think they're technically the company name is Object First.
Okay.
Yeah.
The company name is Optic First, right?
But it's, UBI is the product
I
which stands for Out of the Box Immutability.
So they're a storage product specifically targeted at, uh, a Veeam.
Um, I, I think their principles would work.
Go ahead.
Yeah.
And it was actually started by the co-founders of Veeam.
Wait, it's Rap Mirror, right?
Yeah.
And others, et et all.
Um, it, it's, it's funny, the first thing I find amusing is that they.
They liken backups to brushing and flossing, flossing your teeth,
something else that no one likes to do, uh, especially the flossing part.
But they, they've got some interesting statistics that they quote.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna put a link to the article that they quote from a lot.
But, um, there's a, another article from, um, a company that.
Uh, did a bunch of, you know, data loss statistics from 2024, and it
obviously, we, we've heard this before, 94% of companies that suffer
a major data loss do not recover.
That is a scary statistic.
Oh
heard that before though, right?
And in fact, we did the series on cloud disasters, right.
That basically ruined companies, shut them down.
Cause significant business impact, right?
So yeah, it's definitely one thing you do not want to mess around with.
Yeah.
And the, so they've got the 94% that suffer a major data loss do not recover.
That is really scary.
They've also got that half of the companies that have any kind of data
loss, they close within two years.
So it's like they, they, they, they don't close right away, but they end up, um,
and 43% never reopen after shutting down.
Uh, that's, it's pretty scary Statistics.
no, that's definitely scary and I don't.
Think people really internalize that number, right?
Because you don't always hear, it's kind of like you like startups, right?
You always hear about the companies that went big on IPOs, but you
never really hear about all the companies that went bust.
Which are most of them
exactly.
And it kind of feels the same way here.
Like you don't, you only hear a couple about like companies
that have recovered, but not
right?
the companies that went bust.
And I think the other stat from this article that was interesting
is for small businesses, 70% close within a year of a large data loss.
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
That's scary.
One thing I do like in this article is they talk about world Backup Day pledge.
I dunno if you saw that,
Yeah.
says, I solemnly swear to back up my important documents and precious memories
on March 31st, hashtag World Backup Day.
Yeah.
in tiny quotes, it says, I will also tell my friends and
family about world backup Day.
Real friends.
Don't let friends go without a backup.
Smiley face.
I like that.
You know, you know, one of the things that's happened to me multiple times in my
life is because people know I know backup.
They often come to me when they have that moment of like, I just did this
thing and I think I've lost all my data.
Can you help me?
And I'm like, well, what's your backup plan?
And they're like, I don't have a backup plan.
I'm like, well, I can help you best if I have a time machine.
Right.
You know, like, it, it, it, it hurts me when I see, when I see data loss
happening, especially if it's like.
You know, data that somebody thinks is really important
to them personally, right?
Um, yeah, I could, I can think one of the worst ones I remember, I remember it was,
it was a niece, niece of mine that came to me and she was like, help me, uncle
Curtis, like, help me with this thing.
Luckily with that one, I. I think we were able it, like it was a drive
that was dying and we were able to duplicate the drive before it fully died.
But, um, yeah.
Um, there's another interesting stat here about, um, that the average
annual cost of a data breach.
Now this isn't quite, basically, you know, reason why we're talking
about data breaches is data breaches often result in ransomware.
Ransomware often results in, you know, needing backup and often
results in killing backups.
Right?
Um, $9.36 million of the average cost of a, of a breach that is a.
us Yeah.
And that's quite a lot of money, right?
Just if you think about, and.
know when we think from a backup perspective, we're like, oh, it's just
the same as restoring data, right?
Recovering systems, right?
And yes, you are doing more systems, but that's all you're doing.
But if you go back and listen to some of our podcast episodes when
we had Mike Sailor on, It's not just about recovering the data, right?
You don't even know what systems are good, what systems are
bad, what backups even use.
Maybe you need to collect forensics data because you don't know what
data has been Maybe exfiltrated.
And all of those things take time and time costs money, both from a people
and resource perspective, and also your business may be down for however long
it takes you to actually do all of this.
Yeah, absolutely.
And now we're gonna take a look at a Forbes article from Tom Coughlin, somebody
I know well, um, you know, he, he covers the space quite a bit and he wrote a,
he wrote a pretty good article where he, you know, he, he gets some insights from.
You know, random people around the, the internet.
I, I think, um, or random people that are interested in this topic.
The, the first quote that sticks out to me from Richard Copeland, the CEO of Lease
Web, uh, you know, he was saying that if you have no backup, no safety net.
What you have coming ahead of you is downtime, financial
hemorrhaging, and a lot of regret.
Yeah.
just thought that was kind of funny.
Um, any, anything that stuck out for you?
Uh, so I know that, uh, Laura, or I know that Lance O'Hara talks
Uhhuh?
sort of 3, 2, 1 rule for data storage, which is if you've ever
listened to this podcast, right.
We always talk about it.
But
Right.
but One interesting thing that the article says though, is for consumers, right?
Your original data on your laptop is one copy.
A
Right.
device is a second copy, and a cloud copy is your third copy, right?
And that's how you make sure that you have.
Uh, three copies of your data, right on
Yep.
media, one of which is offsite.
And so that is something that I think as consumers, sometimes we don't follow.
In fact, I would say even some backup folks who work in the industry
for their own personal stuff may
Yeah, including me.
Including me.
I, I mean, that's one way I, I would, you know, because you, you
technically, that's a 3, 3, 1, right?
Because you, you, you want to have it on two different types of media.
Uh, you know, two different storage mechanisms, however you wanna put it.
In this case, it's both this, so it's not, it's technically the same media, but,
but it, it's a different system, right?
Um, if you have it on your laptop and on your cloud, I think that, you
know, in a backup cloud provider, I think that that satisfies 3, 2, 1.
What he's describing, I think is a 3, 3, 1.
You have it on three different types of media.
Um, I don't have a problem with what he's suggesting.
I'm just saying I don't think you're doing anything wrong if you're using a
The
direct to cloud backup.
Yeah.
you decide
Um,
2, 5, that's totally fine.
well, I don't think it's not possible to have one.
Yeah, okay.
You could have 3, 2, 5.
Yeah.
Uh, um, and the, the, he was, uh, that, that guy was from sea, uh, Seagate.
Yes.
Um, um, the, uh, let's see.
Lemme skip over the catalog logic guy.
Um.
Uh, Veeam.
Veeam had some comments in the article where they talked about,
you know, recommending more than just cloud storage again.
Interesting.
Uh, again, I don't have a problem with that.
If you have a product like Veeam that can help automate having an onsite
copy and an offsite copy, um, then that is absolutely the way to go.
Right.
Um, and the.
Uh, uh, my challenge was if we're talking about consumers, that's
typically not something that's gonna be available to them, but,
Yeah.
but from a, you know, enterprise standpoint, having a product like Veeam
that can create an on on-site copy and an offsite copy, um, you know,
in, in the cloud is a good thing.
Yeah.
Of course, if we didn't talk about your favorite subject, Curtis,
Mm-hmm.
think that we could consider this world backup day.
Right?
But
I'm curious what, what you think my favorite subject is, but go ahead.
Uh, so we do have a couple quotes from, people in the tape industry.
Ah, yeah.
Who, uh, mentioned sort of okay, why the importance of tape.
And also if you listen to one of our pre previous episodes,
we talked about air gaps, right?
Yep.
is actually one of the things that, uh, is, uh, called out by Rich
Gadomski from the Active Archive
Of course.
Rich.
Rich and Mitch.
Rich and Mitch from, uh, spectra Logic.
Yeah.
And then Bob Fine over at Quantum.
Right.
Just talking about sort of air gap storage systems.
Right.
And using it for keeping secure copies of their data, especially in
different Geo Geographic locations.
So we're gonna do, we're gonna do a 3, 4, 1, or the three?
The four.
So we're gonna have a copy on, on, you know, our primary copy.
We're gonna make copy on disc, a copy on tape, and a copy in the cloud.
Yep.
That's four.
It's four.
Four four.
Yep.
Um, yeah.
a question.
Yeah.
We never really know what the cloud is doing, so is it technically
considered a different media?
Well, it's, again, it's, it's, it's, the question is, it's a different risk profile
is basically what the idea is, right?
You, the idea is that you're not.
I.
You're not storing if, if, if you, if you're clearly storing something on
exactly the same hardware and exactly the same storage, like for example, this all
started with the digital camera, right?
Yeah.
If you just put the, if you put the, I, I had a digital camera
that would automatically twin.
Every time it wrote something, it would write it on two different SD cards.
Yep.
That's.
Two different things with exactly the same risk profile.
That's what he's trying to talk, you know, given that this all started
By,
the digital back or digital photography world.
the way, if people aren't aware, we did an episode actually.
With the person who coined the 3, 2, 1 rule.
Yeah, yeah, we did, we interviewed that and, uh, I gotta see if I can
find that and put that in as a comment.
Yeah.
That was a, was a fascinating, you know, and, and I wonder, I, I still
like, wonder what it's like to.
Know that you coined something back so long ago, I think it was the nineties.
And then to see, to see, to see how common it's become in, in backup design.
I am sorry
I like that.
CDP still has not near synchronous, I think, what do you call it?
Near CDP, near CDP, the term I coined,
Yes.
not, certainly not to the degree that, uh, that 3, 2, 1 rule.
Um, so.
else in this article that you thought was interesting?
Uh, let's see.
Well, so Molly, uh, Molly Presley, uh, somebody I know well from Hammer Space,
uh, she talked about, um, you know, again, the need for automated, right.
Automated data protection, and I could not agree more.
Right?
And we alluded to that with the Veeam discussion where, you know,
all of this needs to be automated.
The more you have the human.
Uh, involved in things, the worst things are gonna be right.
And so, yeah.
Uh, a agreed.
will take over everything, Curtis.
And then what are we gonna do?
Um, yeah, that's a great question.
The robots can take over my house cleaning.
Have you never seen Battlestar Galactica?
I, I've seen both of the Battlestar Gala galas.
Thank you very much.
The next we have is an article from Kevin Perot.
It's a French last name.
I don't know.
Sorry
apologize.
I, yeah.
Kevin French, last name.
Um, and one of the first thing you know, he, he talked about how
he felt there was this growing awareness of backup, which is good.
There was a survey from Western Digital that said that, uh, 87% of
people reported backing up their consumers reported backing up their
data automatically or manually.
is
an in what?
Is that it?
Does that surprise you?
That's, yeah, that is super I would not
That's what I thought too.
that
Yeah.
be at that level unless I do wonder if they are considering
things like Google Drive syncing, like Google One or using Apple
Uh.
Yeah.
iCloud.
Yeah.
I backup my phone.
I use iCloud.
Yeah.
Which, you know, we have an episode on why iCloud is not backup.
It's it's synchronization.
It's not backup.
Uh, delete your files on your, you know, what, what the most common, the way that
people find out that it's, that it's.
A synchronization, not backup, is that they, they get a new phone
and then they decide to delete all the pictures on their old phone.
Instead of just wiping the phone.
They actually go in and delete all their pictures before they disconnect
it from their iCloud account and they end up deleting all the
pictures in their iCloud account.
And, and in fact, one of the interesting things from that, right, is the top
reasons for backing it up, losing files,
Yeah.
up space on their device and to protect against cyber threats.
But the first two are significantly higher than the last one.
Percentage wise.
Yeah, that is weird, right?
Only 42% to protect against cyber threats.
And by the way, I don't, I don't like this idea that backup is for
freeing up space on your device, but that's, that's just because, yeah.
So you were going the same place.
Yeah,
I mean, I understand it's being pedantic, but backup is not for
freeing up space on your device.
That's what archiving is for.
But I understand that the average person doesn't know the
difference between the two, but.
come on, as Western Digital, you should know the difference,
you know?
So then they go into obviously the, you know, double extortion, uh, the, the
title of this particular article is Why backup is not Enough, and Because why does
backup not help with double extortion?
Curtis, what is double extortion?
Well, I was gonna let you, I was gonna let you define it.
you define it.
Okay.
So the idea.
Good after you.
Uh, so basically double extortion is where, you know, they've stolen your
data and there's a traditional extortion where you're gonna encrypt all the data
and, um, you can have it, you can have it de-encrypted if you pay the ransom.
Double extortion is where they steal the data.
And, um, and then they will say.
We're either going to, um, we're going to publish.
The general thing is that they're going to publish the data, basically
releasing your, your trade secrets or perhaps stuff that's embarrassing to you.
Um, and that, that's why it's called double extortion
The
and, yeah.
common example,
Yeah.
example of double extortion where they stole a bunch of sensitive emails
and threatened to publish 'em, and I think they ended up publishing them
They did.
And, you know, and, and a lot of actors were upset over how the, the studio talked
about them behind the, behind their back.
But you know what, uh, the studio recovered anyway.
Um, but what, so why doesn't backup help with that?
Yeah, because you can't prevent the second
Yeah.
of that double extortion scheme.
You know, like
Yep.
gonna help you prevent data from being taken out of your company.
I. Right.
They, you need to use like, uh, endpoint detection, response solution, EDR or
other things in order to prevent data from leaking or leaving your environment.
Backups aren't gonna help you with that.
Yep, yep.
It's um, yep.
And, and just since there's now double extortion, or we just talked about
double extortion, have you heard about this triple extortion thing?
What?
No, no, I haven't.
What?
What is triple extortion?
you pay, the bad
Uhhuh?
still leave the hooks in place other, and then they sell access to other people
Ugh.
use that same access to get into your systems again.
No bueno.
Yeah.
What I liked best about this particular article is that they have a seven step
roadmap for data resilience, which I was actually pretty impressed with.
A lot of these just leave this stuff out.
The first thing they talk about is assessing risk, right?
You know, figure out what you have, assess the risk.
Then you need a plan that involves an RTO and an RPO.
I like that, right?
Encompasses on-premises and cloud assets.
Uh, and then number three, immutable storage.
I like that.
Right?
Uh, and then we have, um, you know, the, the, and also secure on-premises storage.
So I love that they got the cloud, they got the on-premises
storage, uh, you know, and then continually evaluating your backup
infrastructure against best practices.
You have a security culture that is definitely important, right?
Uh, and then also make sure your third party data is also backed up.
That's a number.
That's one that so many companies leave out, right?
The
Um,
thing I, I like the list.
The only thing I would add is a zero step zero,
mm-hmm.
is work with the business to understand what is important for your company.
I, I thought the same thing.
Uh, when I, when I read two, like, it, it, it just sort of assumes
that you have an RTO and an RPO.
It doesn't, doesn't say, you know, make sure you get, make sure you work with the
business to get an RTO and an RPO, uh, because you, you can't do, uh, backup and
recovery in, in a, in a vacuum, right?
Um, and, um,
this was a
yeah.
article and
Yep.
good points that people should be following when it comes to
Yep.
I saw a lot of common threads in there.
You know, we saw our, we, we saw a lot of our favorite topics come up, right?
One of which is the 3, 2, 1 rule and the big thing, I think the, the number one.
Sort of use for that today, I think is against the idea that your SaaS
provider is backing up your data.
Because even if they are, it's like backing up your hard drive
to your hard drive, right?
Um, and so the 3, 2, 1 rule, it's like if, if you're, if you don't
have a copy of your data outside.
Of the infrastructure that's being used to produce the, you know, it
violates, it's not any of the thing.
It might be the three, right?
In fact, many people don't even have the three many people like
again, to pick on my favorite.
Uh, provider, Microsoft, many people are using Microsoft 365
and they're not backing it up.
And they're like, oh, well I have the recycle bin, you know, or
I have the, whatever, you know, I have the retention period.
You know, and it's like, yeah, but it's not, it's not even a three, it's one copy.
It's one table in a database, right?
Which might be okay for their particular use case, but it is not
gonna cover all use cases that you think about when it comes to backup.
It is not gonna cover like a ransomware attack or, you know, or, or like some of
the stuff we've covered where a company accidentally deletes their entire account.
Yeah.
Right.
Um,
thing we have not really talked about
in this, what,
is immutable storage.
what, no, it came up, it came up in the.
ubi barely though, right?
We didn't really cover like the
Yeah.
Why?
Why do we talk about immutable storage so much here?
Well, because as we've talked about in various, uh, ransomware scenarios, right,
the bad actors are getting smarter, and the first thing that they're attacking
now is your backup infrastructure.
Yeah.
in, they find it, it has all the data they need so they can figure
out what's important, exfiltrate the data, and then they blow away all
your backups so you can't recover.
So you then have to pay the ransom in order to get your infrastructure back.
Exactly, and, and you know, with the folks at, uh, I mean, they're not the only one,
but they, but they're definitely going directly after this particular problem.
They're like, we're gonna make sure that at least one copy of your data.
Is 100% immutable because most of the other, many of the other
immutable options, as I make air quotes, they're not really immutable.
And by the way, we had, we had a whole episode about that recently, right?
Where we talked about the different things that people mean when they say immutable.
Um, but this is, you know, actual immutability, right?
Um, even if you have the super user privileges, you're not
able to get rid of the data.
Um, so yeah, immutable storage is, is absolutely.
Uh, crucial.
So is a cloud copy.
I think even if you have on premises backup infrastructure, if it's possible
for you to have a cloud copy of your data, I think that a, again, an immutable cloud
copy of your data, my favorite way to do that would be to put it on an actual
immutable, a truly immutable product like object lock with the compliance mode.
Right.
Um, so that you, so it's truly immutable.
So here's a question for you.
Yeah.
Immutable cloud copy storage versus tape,
what would you pick?
Or
Well,
would you, how would a customer or a backup admin decide what to pick?
Because we talk about tape a lot, we talk about cloud storage a lot.
Tape does offer immutable copies.
Yeah.
Right?
But between these,
And it's enforced in the hardware, right?
If it's, if it's immutable flag, you can't, you can't overwrite that.
So between these two,
Yeah.
Like how would a backup person decide which one to use?
Yeah, that's a great question.
Um, so the question would be as to whether, which one is
able to meet your requirements?
Right.
Tape is great for.
Certain things, right?
Being the additional copy, if you've already got a copy on disc,
easily copying that copy to tape.
It is not good for creating that first initial copy for most people.
But creating a a, you know, a salt mine copy, it's great for that.
What it's not great for is operational recovery of a lot of
small files and, um, and also, um.
You know, so the question would be, look at how often you do
operational recovery and see whether or not tape would make sense there.
But if you, um, I, I think that either a truly immutable cloud copy or tape
are, are perfectly viable and it's, it's gonna be a matter of personal preference.
So the question is, you know, it's that value of sneaker net.
So depending on how much data we're talking about, a pile of tapes is gonna
be actually quicker than a cloud copy that we've gotta pull across the internet.
Yeah.
So yeah, it just depends on the scenario and what your RTO and RPO
are and your tolerance for the, the downsides of both technologies.
Okay, so last question for you.
And tape will be cheaper, by the way, in mo in most
scenarios, tape will be cheaper.
So given World Backup Day passed, is there anything that you think people
should look out for, for the rest of until the next world backup day?
Is there anything that people should do?
Like what recommendation or what guidance?
What would you tell people now that World Backup Day has passed
as well as April Fool's Day?
Yeah,
What would you recommend for people to do?
so that's a great question.
Um,
course, it's a great question.
Come on.
so I'm, so I'm gonna assume, and I think I can assume that people
listening to this episode, you're backing up your stuff, right?
We're just gonna assume that what I will say is.
There's a very distinct, very high possibility that you're not backing
up some of your corporate data.
And the more.
SaaS providers that you're using, the more likely that is to be the case, right?
So many people do not back up their SaaS data, and I, I think that, you
know, as time goes on, we will see more and more outages and more and
more people will, comp companies will suffer data loss, um, as a result
of not backing up their SaaS data.
Yeah, I actually just read an article this morning in the register where they talked
about Keep It, which is a backup vendor
Yeah,
looking to expand to.
Support many, many, many more SaaS applications because like you
yeah,
Enterprises, corporations are using more and more SaaS applications every
day and they're not being protected.
yeah.
And there are a handful of companies that are going after that.
After that.
And I highly recommend that they do that.
All right, that wraps up our post World Backup Day coverage Prasanna.
Thanks for hanging out again.
And happy world backup day to you, Curtis,
Belated, belated world.
Backup day, sir.
world backup day and hopefully next year you don't forget.
And maybe, maybe it moves up to the second favorite day for you of the year.
May,
yeah, maybe.
Maybe.
Yeah.
always hoping.
Always hoping.
All right, folks, back up your data please.
Uh, you know, that's all, that's all we want you to do.
'cause if you don't back it up, you can't restore it.
That is a wrap.