Everyone is absolutely fucked if they don't hold Bitcoin. We get digital

IDs at the end of the year, and then what happens? Then they bring out central bank

digital currencies, and then what happens? Then we have social credit scores for

$3 million unrealized capital gains. If they want to bring it in, that's just total

wealth confiscation, communism in this country. And people like,

it's only going to affect a small portion. I'm like, you're missing the point, ladies and

gentlemen. Once that law is in place, oh, we need to come after

your house now. We're not going to notice these incremental totalitarian footsteps

that they're doing. But you'll wake up in five or ten years and realize like,

Everyone in the fiat system is a fucking slave. If the government says

jump, they jump. Here's a jab, then fucking take the jab. Like everyone is

absolutely fucked. If they don't want to hold Bitcoin in self-custody, they

Hey guys, welcome to Crypto Collective. I've got the one and

only Sean Clarke from G'day Bitcoin here to join me today. We're going

to dive deep into everything Bitcoin and a little bit into his

personal life as well, if you don't mind. Sean, welcome. Matt,

thank you so much for having me on the show. Such a pleasure. Matt,

it's awesome. I want to jump straight into just a big credit

to yourself for everything you're doing in the Bitcoin community. You've

been orange peeling people now for what seems like years and

years. And I've been a big fan of yours and a follower for probably

since the inception. Now tell me though, you've grown so

big now, how do you even get these big players? We're talking

about before the big print. You can show the book, Sean, the

big print by Lawrence Lepard. How do you even go about getting someone like that

I guess part of it's definitely a little bit of luck

for sure, but I think more importantly, it's just showing up every

single day or every single week. And then

being a little bit strategic with these guests, people like Lawrence

Lippard, Preston Fish, Mark Moss, Natalie Brunel, say

like, Bitcoin's very sort of like flat, but

say the A-level celebrities, if you just want to put a label on them,

For me, sort of starting off as a nobody, it's very hard to

be like, hey, Preston, do you want to come on the show? Lawrence, do

you want to come on the show? They're like, who the hell is this person?

I'm like, we want to get your message out to the Australian Bitcoin community. And

they're like, no, pass. So you'd go out with a guest

and bring on someone that had maybe a couple more subscribers than me. If I

had a couple of hundred or a couple of thousand at that stage, maybe someone that

had two or three thousand. have them on and

then just sort of work out from like the D to the C to

the B to the A and to be able to go for it. But once you start getting

into like that A and B list Bitcoin and

spokespeople, advocates, I wouldn't say they're influencers or

I heard a new one the other day, KOLs. KOLs.

Key opinion leaders. I didn't even know what that was. Someone said, I wanted KOLs. I

was like, what the hell is that? So you're a key opinion leader,

KOL. Cool. Cool. Yeah. It's almost cool. Yeah, it's

I just want to say, when I watch back, because I've seen the couple of episodes you've

done with Lawrence Lippard, I just

think, God, I don't know enough about Bitcoin. Every time I hear these guys.

Mate, we were just talking about it. I've been here

for six years, 2019. I got into the space, I believe, September

2019, and started off with Bitcoin and crypto, or crypto and

then Bitcoin two weeks later. But after

that, it's been like four or 5,000 hours. I've just consumed myself.

The amount of podcasts I've read, nearly every single Bitcoin. book

on Bitcoin and then I'll have a conversation like with Lawrence Lippard

that came out last week and I'm like I did not know that

and I'm like I've got so much to learn and it

amazes me like how many more thousands of hours can

you put in and continue to keep learning but then you look at like the OGs

that were here right from the start or say like 2013, 2017 And

they're still learning something new every single day. And

it's so fascinating. It's really the only thing in my life that's

really kept me focused and paying attention

to one particular thing for so long. And

instead of going like surface level, it allows you to go deeper and deeper

and deeper. And then it sort of touches, not sort of touches, it ends

up touching every single area of your life, your consciousness, your

Everything now, I look through the lens of Bitcoin. Even someone said

to me today, Matt, you should go and get the Porsche. Get

rid of the Mercedes and get the Porsche. I was like, oh, I don't know. Is it going to

cost me too much money? Because I'm thinking about just stacking

as much Bitcoin as possible. Because I've told you before, Sean, I'm

dematerializing. physical assets. I

had properties settled last week. I've got another

couple of more properties to settle this week. What are some of the things that you're

doing, I guess, to stack more Bitcoin? Because before you

answer that, I was listening to Peter Dunworth recently, and

he used this new term I'd never seen before, terminal Bitcoin.

Had you heard that term before? I haven't, but it makes sense.

Terminal Bitcoin. I was like, Damn, I'm

going to be facing terminal bitcoins at one day. Yeah. So

how have you continued to stack more Bitcoin? What are some of

Yeah, I guess earlier in my journey as

I stayed So let's sort of go back

to the start of my crypto journey, because it'll make this make sense. So

I called up a mate. I was living with him for a little

while, for three months. He had just sold his online internet business for

millions and millions and millions of dollars. Wow. Yeah,

pretty incredible young guy. He was just a couple of years older than me

at that stage. And he came back

to Australia. I ended up meeting him and helping

him set up a couple of things, permaculture farm, etc. Anyway,

I left him and I came up here and I gave him a call one day and

said, mate, I literally had $400 in

my safe in cash. I'm like, I've got $400 here, what stock should I buy?

He's like, I don't tell my friends, because if they invest and it

goes to zero, they're not going to be my friend. I'm

like, bro, it's $400. Tell me or I'll flush it down the toilet.

It's monopoly money. Yeah, I've believed that

for a very long time. So I know that the paper

fiat dollars was worthless. He's like, well, I'm not into stocks, I'm into

crypto. I'm like, cool, what crypto? He said the crypto, so I bought that crypto.

And then I googled, I'm like, what is cryptocurrency? And

Google spits back, the first ever cryptocurrency was Bitcoin. I'm like, okay,

how much is Bitcoin? It was $30,000 Australian. And

at that moment, I was just like, oh,

I have ducked up here massively. Because in 2013, when

I was working on the cruise boats in the Great Barrier Reef out of Cairns, we'd

cleaned the boats. And then I remember one week of

standing on the back of the ship, waiting

for the new guests to go, and Bitcoin was $94 AUD.

And I'm like, I'm going to buy Bitcoin. Clearly.

Wow. I'm like, I'm going to buy Bitcoin. And

then I bought something else and it all went up in smoke. I

was a total degenerate. So I had a week-long bender,

went back out to sea for another week, and then we were doing the same thing, cleaning

the boat, waiting for the turnaround for the new gas. Bitcoin was at

$96 Australian. Like, I'm going to buy Bitcoin. Didn't buy it,

Matt. Again, it went up in smoke. And

then it was like 2017, Bitcoin must have hit a new all-time high or something.

It came back into the consciousness. We ended up buying it to

be able to buy stuff on the dark web, but it was just feared and

money out into the dark web, things would get shipped in the mail. And

that was sort of it until 2019 when I

Googled it. And the price of Bitcoin when I Googled it was

$30,000 Australian. I was like, oh my God, that's gone up 300x

when I first said I would buy it four years ago. So

that sort of hurt a little bit, but I researched it and then I

just started reading everything that I could a lot of Andre Antonopoulos

At that start and so within like a couple of days after

that I realized okay Bitcoin is the money It's like digital gold

somehow that stuck in my mind straightaway. I didn't know what the altcoins were

like at first I thought they're like a technology play and

like, in it for the tech, you know, like truly bought into that

psyop, that propaganda, that misinformation and disinformation. And

so they're incredibly effective marketing messages

from those founders and stuff. And I did pretty well, like I was buying Ethereum

at under $70 Australian, quite a lot of it, under

$80 Australian for a lot of it, XRP, like, I don't know, like,

so, so tiny, Solana. That's

sort of the main ones and then a couple of like

lower tier, but like Ethereum went on to go to like four,

four and a half grand Australian when I was selling out. So that was pretty crazy.

But throughout that whole time, I realized Bitcoin was the money. And

even when I was talking about cryptocurrency, I'm like, guys, if you get a three X

or a five X, take out your initial or take out all your profits and

leave your initial there, but just put it into Bitcoin, put it into Bitcoin, put it into Bitcoin.

And I felt like at that stage, while even though I was talking about some

degenerate projects and stuff like that, I

felt like if people did that, obviously

not financial advice, do your own research, but if they followed it along, at

least for me, it did pretty well. And then I got majorly rug pulled

by the founder of sort of an impersonal attack um

with this project and I was like had that light bulb go off

and I was like holy shit like sorry if you're not allowed to swear hopefully

the producers can but

I was like this is all just for Ghazi this is just a

shit show like I I am out um and then from that moment I

have like zero crypto, it's 100% Bitcoin only. The

closest that I've come to dealing with crypto was literally today at

a cafe helping a lady sell her Crowe XRP Ethereum

into Bitcoin. She was 65 years old. But

that's the closest over the last couple of years that I've come to dealing with cryptocurrency

because I'm just here for the money. So that's sort

of what that journey has been like. But

doing that and then making all those fiat gains and stuff, I could have taken quite

a few years off to just be able to run my own race, do whatever.

But at that stage, because I'd been trading crypto and it was more swing trading,

not day trading, and gone off the market sentiment, and people would

come in, manipulate the markets, but it was so often

that you could see that pattern repeating, like every couple of

days, 30, 40, 50% pump, and you'd just take chips off the table. But

I realized through that experience that I hadn't

really developed any skills or learnt anything

where I could provide huge value back to society so I stayed

at my bullshit job and I kept doing

the Bitcoin podcast at that stage and then stacking

skills on the side so like sales, email

marketing obviously with the YouTube cold outreach was a great amazing

skill like you're asking about at the start to be able to reach out to

these big players from a cold email or One

thing, just to go back to that point, was with these

big players, is interacting with them on X and talking to them and providing value

with their tweets and stuff, getting my name into their consciousness so

that after one or two months I could message them and be like, hey,

we've been talking for a while, can I get you on? But anyway, so

I was stacking skills the whole time, just working the

job. And also, at the start of my journey, I think, I

don't know if it came from Andre Antonopoulos or whatever, but it

was like, just buy Bitcoin week in, week out for four solid years.

And that was my plan. Like, I'm just going to buy for four years. When

I made all those gains, I probably could have sort of stopped, because it wasn't

moving the needle too much. But I'm grateful now for doing that. I

gave up flying, I gave up everything that was costing extra money

And then trying to start... And so Sean, when you say stacking skills, you're

talking about stacking skills like online sales, marketing

Yeah, 100%. How to be able to build websites, how to

be able to integrate payment processes. At one stage,

I was trying to dropship both Bitcoin clothing and others. Didn't

work out too well. Definitely made a couple of sales, but it was more about how

to run Facebook ads at that stage to be able to promote it,

learning all that. The emails was definitely one.

How to build WordPress websites was another big thing that's early

And so in that, Sean, did you have anything that you like

that stuck, you know, because I'm just if I just say, you know, like I've

done a lot of online sales before and I see a lot of people who do it and,

you know, the first couple of things that might not work out, but they're building like what you're doing,

you're stacking skills and eventually, you know, something sort of takes off a bit. Was

there some failures and then success or did you hit something

no at the start there's um no success

um but we will get to the success very shortly so

it's like a whole lot more skills than i've got on my channel um

did that and then got to a point where i was like there

is zero point for me still being at this job like I'm

not enjoying myself. I'm showing up like I literally don't need

to be here. I could have left two years ago. And like, so one day

I was like, here's my resignation letter, two lines saying thank

you very much, two paragraphs saying here's my last opportunity to

tell you to study Bitcoin as much as possible. It was an incredible resignation

letter. I'm sure they hated me for it, especially seeing the price now. But I

literally did everything I could to hopefully get them to study. I

doubt they did. And then Because I

had all those skills behind me, I said to my wife, she's like

Australia's expert and lives to experience mental health, so within the

mental health field. And she's doing a lot of consulting. And,

you know, some days she was in tears. She's like, like everyone

wants like a piece of me and stuff. And I'm like, why don't you

just, I'm like, why are you saying the same thing over and over and over again?

She's like, like every single consultation. I'm like, why don't we

just package it up, make it an online course. And then I can go

through that first before they speak to you. And then when you're meeting with

them, it's a higher level consultation instead of going over the basics first.

She's like, don't know how to do this. And like, I can do it.

She's like, you don't know how to do it. I'm like, yes, I've learned the skills to be able to

do that. So the video editing, setting up the WordPress websites,

integrating the LMS, learning and using AI. So

at the start of last year, I was using AI like four to six

hours a day to be able to code this website and integrate everything, can

get the email remailers out and the newsletters and the pop-ups and

et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. And because I'd

learned all those skills, So we did that, we packaged

it up, we recorded the first course, we now

have three courses. Like every week,

there's two, three, four live deliveries

of the session, executive level coaching, etc. now.

So yes, the success came eventually, but

it was like, try something, get knocked back down, try something, get

knocked back down. And it just felt like I was endlessly being punched

in the face. And I couldn't breathe. So eventually, I was just

like, I I can't be at this job anymore. There's no point me being at this job. Let's

get rid of it. Let's open up and see what's possible. And

then I could see that my wife happened to have a real

problem in her life where she just couldn't

deliver everything she wanted to. And she's in this area because she

wants to make a change to the system. It really aligns with Bitcoin. It's

like a people first movement. And so I was like,

all right, like, let's do it this way. Let's try and mix it up. And

so we've gone from there to like,

her life's changed, my life's changed in sort of

just over the last 12, 14 months since

doing that. And like, when it

comes to Bitcoin, Like what we're doing now with

our income and stuff is allowing to stack even more but

So basically what you're doing, because people are going to find this fascinating, they want

to know how do people stack Bitcoin? Do they do it in chunks?

Do they just do a DCA every week? What's your strategy? Just every

No, I do it every two weeks. Before,

when I was employed, I'd get paid on a two-week cycle. I also set

up a self-managed super fund, and I was lucky enough

that most large organisations will deposit

the money into your superannuation or your self-managed super fund every three

months, usually every quarter. But they're doing it every two weeks as

well. So I was buying Bitcoin in my super every two weeks and

then with every little bit of savings. So I know like my

fixed costs are pretty good and they've been consistent for sort of the

last three years nearly. They've sort of stayed the same.

maybe gone up a little bit, but we've cut out other

things. So they've sort of stayed the same, but anything over and above

would just go straight into Bitcoin. So like every two weeks for the last

five and a half years consistently, I've bought.

And if I've ever missed a two week period over that five and a

half years, I've made it up by stacking two, three, four times in

another week. But like at a minimum, I've averaged every

two weeks for the last five and a half years when I've been in for about six

And do you do anything like, as you go, do you think, hey, we

don't want to have Netflix anymore, we're going to cut Netflix, that's going to Bitcoin. Is

Yeah. So the only two subscriptions that I'd never

live without is like a high-end AI, so

ChatGPT is for me, and then YouTube

Premium. And then everything like that, like Netflix,

we don't have we really cut down on on holidays. We

never cut down on our food. We've always spent quite quite

a bit because you are what you eat. So sort of

before going on carnivore is like a lot of smoked salmon and

things like that. Replacing that with meat, food costs have

stayed the same. But yeah, just being intentional not

to Well, I guess the biggest thing, so like flying

is my joy. It's what I like doing, small aircraft and

stuff. When I got into Bitcoin at

the start of 2020, I'm like, I'm going to stop flying for four years and

I'm just going to stack Bitcoin. So I cut that expense out of my

life and that's $440 an hour to

How are you even affording to do that back then? I mean, that's an

My job was pretty good paying, and

I've always worked, even throughout all my addiction and

stuff, I've either always been hustling, selling on the side, or

working, saving. So I got

into Bitcoin six years ago, but for the four years preceding that,

we were paying off the mortgage like crazy. We were just trying to get everything all

So there's a huge amount in the redraw. Do you do anything like, One

of the things I've actually utilized is actually using part of my redraw to

allocate to Bitcoin. Because the way I see it is I'm

an absolute Bitcoin obsessed. I

look at all the capital that I've got lying around. I'm like, dude, I

can get that. I can pull money out of my mortgage for like, currently

it's under 6%. That's right. And I can dump that into Bitcoin. Now,

I've obviously got the conviction much like what you do. So I don't

have any problem with it. And of course, if you can afford the repayment, because you've got there's

100%. So what we were doing for that four years before Bitcoin was

getting the mortgage down. And I

think if we kept going as hard as we were, maybe it would have been,

I don't know, eight to 12 months, and it would have been totally paid off.

Wow. And then I found Bitcoin, you know, and

then the redraw is a lot higher than what it was before

we started. paying it

off 10 years ago. But it's just because of that opportunity.

And ladies and gentlemen, I'm not saying grab all the money out of your redraw and put it

into Bitcoin. I'm saying it. I

would say that over time that's going to pay out very, very well

for people. It has for me. It sounds like it has for you, Matt. What I

am saying is understand Bitcoin as quickly as possible so

that you can lead yourself to have that conviction to be able to do that.

Because it's some of the cheapest money that we can get, really.

But you have to definitely take into account being able to pay those

higher interest expenses with your repayments. But

anything to be able to get money, like to be able

to stay at that job where I really didn't need to, just to be able to keep

stacking sats. until I felt like I had enough

value to be able to provide the world, to be able to go out and do something.

And I left that job, and I was going to go start something, and

then I just saw the need with my wife. I'm like, well, I'm going to give you everything

I can here to be able to do it, and we've built something beautiful. I

think for anyone starting on their journey, if you can stick to four

years, like week in, week out, or day in, day out, or month in, month

out, whatever that payment cycle is, consistently, and every little

small bit of win, or whatever, and then you start to see things

like, oh, I don't need the Porsche, or I don't need the Lexus. Oh,

there's so much money in the redraw, I'm going to take half of it and put it in. That's

sort of what we did at the start, is like a quarter. like half

and then we're like fuck let's just take everything that we can out

of it you know to be able to do it as the conviction builds and

oh man it's so hard when it you do it

and then like bitcoin drops and then your wife or my wife at least

hadn't understood bitcoin as much and she's like we've done this all

wrong and destroy them like just like hang on hang on like we've still got more

cash here let's get we're not doing that it's going to zero I'm

like it's not going to zero like please we have to do this now so some

like really hard conversations but then you look

back now and you're like it's Holy shit, like this kid on

So now I'm talking to Matthew Fraser? Let's fucking go. No, it's

not a big deal talking to me. I'm just the average guy on the street. Started working at

Macca's, you know, when I was 14 or

whatever. But let me tell you an interesting story because

it was around 20, it was during the previous high, so

around 21, something like that. And I had just purchased this commercial

property and I was down at the commercial property and I had this contractor come in and he was

doing some cleaning there, right? And I

wasn't even in crypto at all. My

eyes were open to it. I can't remember if I'd sort of just started or

whatever. But anyway, he came in one day and he's like, Matt, Matt, I've

just bought $100,000 worth of Cardano. no

kidding, $100,000, and I've taken it out of my mortgage. And

I was like, oh, wow, OK, that's interesting. And I didn't even know what Cardano

was, right? Now, the reason I shared this story to you, of

course, is for the listeners. You'll know the story. That thing tanked.

Right that thing completely tanked and I dare

say he is now paying off a hundred grand with probably a

card I know value of maybe 20 grand right just brutal So

your point is right don't just rush out now at any point and just start ripping

out whatever money you put in the home line although that's You

know, I took out some money, of course and put into Bitcoin one of the things I don't

do so much as his old coins really but Yeah, it was

good. Good. What about this one? Do you also then use Bitcoin?

And I know you might be against it, because you don't want to give it up, but Bitcoin

as collateral. Let me just segue this into something, because- No. No,

no, don't answer yet. The answer is no. Well,

let me tell you for the audience, too, is that JP Morgan

just this week announced, under Jamie Dimon, announced

that they will now accept Bitcoin and Ethereum actually, I

thought was interesting, but predominantly Bitcoin as collateral, right? So

you can basically give your Bitcoin to JP Morgan and they'll lend

you cash off that. Now, do you think, because this

is already something that you can do, right, but not with the major banks, but

Yeah, was it hard block that paired up with an Aussie

bank to be able to allow it already in

Australia? It's already been done here in Australia. There's

a block earner. Block earner maybe. Yeah, but it's not

Okay. But yeah, definitely. I

was talking to this lady this morning when we're selling all her altcoins into

Bitcoin and stuff, and they're like, what about selling

your Bitcoin for profit? I'm like, Bitcoin is the profit. Anyway, after

a couple of minutes, we worked through that. I said, they're like, I just

want to not say. I'm like, your hardest thing is getting fiat

into Bitcoin. To get Bitcoin back into fiat, they'll

accept it straight away like it's an instant deposit most of

the time into your bank account like you've got no issue the banks

Once they have control, they either want control of the fiat in the bank account or

when they have the access to be able to control Bitcoin, they're going to go for

it. It's pristine collateral. Like, why would they not? As a

business model, anyone that can lock up

your Bitcoin and give you fiat dollars or Bitcoin back

or whatever, but they've got your Bitcoin there to be able to sell at

the drop of the hat if you can't repay or the market turns and your loan to

value ratio goes out. It's amazing and

it's a no-brainer from a business point of view. They're taking

on no risk at all. The person that's

loaning them the coins is taking on all the risks. So 100% it's

come and I think we'll see that. I reckon within the

next three years, if not before. And I think that'll be

the pivot where in Australia, it nearly becomes impossible or

very hard to get Bitcoin to actual self-custody. And they'll

be pushing more, letting the banks collaborative custody it or

letting the ETFs and stuff. So I think it is going to

be big. It's going to be huge at the moment. The interest rate, like

you can get 6% on fiat with your redraw where

the Bitcoin is like 12%. I am not giving

you the world's best collateral, the best form of money to ever

exist to pay twice the amount of interest, like, no. Like,

I would pay maybe like, maybe if there's a 1% interest

loan or something like that. But even in my

I'm gonna push you on this, Sean. I'm gonna push you on this. This

was posed to me last night in a group meeting. And they said, look,

Matthew, let's say you've got a billion dollars worth of

value to Bitcoin, right? What's the point of just holding that

until you die? Wouldn't you either sell some of the Bitcoin to

have what I guess Raoul Pal says is lifestyle chips,

or at least borrow against a portion of your stack to

go and use, whether that be the Lamborghini or the house

or the overseas trip, whatever it is, right? Whatever your heart desires. Is

No. But does that mean that

that may change in the future? Possibly. But

like where I am now, my consciousness, my mindset, absolutely not.

However, I guess for other people, and I've spoken to

Tony Azbeck, Adam Hudson and stuff in regards to this, and I've got a couple of

thoughts that are formed. People are going to want to

loan and leverage, play against their Bitcoin

and stuff. Bitcoin's $115,000. A

lot of people feel like they've missed the boat, like they haven't. It's still under

a million dollars. It's cheap, ladies and gentlemen, but I get

it. So people are going to go out on the risk curve and take on leverage

or loan against their Bitcoin to be able to get fiat, maybe to

buy more Bitcoin or just lifestyle chips. You

do, ladies and gentlemen, but I'd recommend like no more than 10% of

that stack locked up. And then a lot of that with

that. So say you're given one Bitcoin to loan against, you can

probably only loan 50% of that. But if you

go exactly 50%, Bitcoin drops down, then you're going to get a margin call.

So then you've got, you know, 90% to be able to top that up.

And you're really only putting such a small portion of

your Bitcoin at

risk, but I think until the interest rates change and

the banks and stuff start to value Bitcoin for the pristine collateral

that it actually is, like I've no real interest of

it, I think we will get there over time.

But yeah, I just buy a stack and chill, Matt, and just try

Hey guys, real quick. If you're ready to take your crypto investments to

the next level, check out Imperial Wealth. They'll

show you their entire portfolio, share tips from their most

successful moves, and their 35-person

team watches the market 24-7, and recently

tipped a coin that 5X'd in just four days.

Click the link in the show notes to learn more. Now, back to the

episode. you

know, since how can I get more Bitcoin? Like, that's the ultimate goal. One

of the things I did recently was I had to spend about

$1.2 million on a Hungry Jacks, you know, I've got the Hungry Jacks store down

here, and I had to do a renovation on it. Now,

I could have taken that 1.2 and just dumped it into the store

and renovated it, but I didn't do that. Instead, I

was like, you know what, I want more Bitcoin. And I just can't justify giving

all this up, right? So, I went and bought a stack of Bitcoin. It was nearly, it

was about a million dollars or something. Then I just borrowed against it, took

out and then let's say 500,000, put that into the store and then came

up with some other money elsewhere. You see? So, now I've been

able to increase my stack. So, I don't know if you,

It's Bitcoin gymnastics or loan gymnastics

or something to try and just, how can I forever increase my

stack? And I actually found that one of the lenders, they would lend you up to

50%. It was actually a 10% rate, which is still pretty high, right? But I'm

thinking Bitcoin's growing at like 40, 50% a year. So

if I'm paying 10% interest, and here's the other thing, the

10% interest is capitalized, which means that you don't even have to

make an ongoing repayment. So it doesn't come out of your cash flow,

you see? And you just worry about it in the end of the 12-month period. So

either you have to pay the interest down or you have to put more Bitcoin in. Or

if the Bitcoin is increasing, you don't have to make any repayment, just roll the debt over. So,

and one note too, I noticed I did some background checks because I was also concerned

about you like thinking about liquidation. They'll actually let you go up to about,

depending on which lender, 70% to 80% loan-to-value ratio

before liquidation. So in the case of Bitcoin dropping. So

it's interesting, just some Bitcoin gymnastics there, Sean.

And this is just my opinion and my mindset. You talk

to somebody else and they'll be like, yeah, I

loan against my Bitcoin all the time. But then I guess when

you talk to someone like Tony Yazbeck or whatever, he's like,

if you need the cash, just sell it, pay the capital gains or

whatever, and then be done with it. and like totally like remove yourself

from the fiat games and that's my

mindset like I'm here for the freedom money side of things but

we're also lucky that if I needed to take out

a big loan or anything like that because the house has gone up so

much and we're in the fortunate position that the bank owns

the family home, but we have that real estate and we bought it

10 years ago. It's a 6% interest rate

or it's under 6%, so that's easier money and

I'm not putting any of my Bitcoin at risk. They could take the

So do you think as your property value,

let's say, or the inflation on your property just keeps going up,

you can just reborrow against your property? Would you consider doing that and

I don't... Probably

not. Like I try to check myself with the greed, like, yes, I want more

and more and more Bitcoin. And the answer to Bitcoin is always more

and more and more and more and more. Like it never ends. But

I think I want to be able to do that by leveling

up the business and our marketing and streamlining everything

like that. So it's actually cash and it's totally debt free. And

it's obviously the money is going into the bank account, but

we're not dealing with the bank with loans and stuff. We're not beholden to

them. Once the cash sells, we've paid the ATO, paid all the GST, etc.

Any profit can just go into Bitcoin. So just trying to run

Yeah, makes sense. Because basically what you're doing, Sean, is you've got this business

that's just creating the cash flow, you live off that, right? You've

already got this stack of Bitcoin over here, and you can just basically not

touch that. But at the same time, if you want, stack towards that

ongoing, right? That's the play. You touched on something

that was, and then you glossed over it. But you

said, Bitcoin greed. And

I find I've got to check myself on this too sometimes, because

I'm like, I just need more Bitcoin. So the question is really,

and I get this a lot, when is enough enough?

It's not. Dude, the

answer is always more Bitcoin. I know that doesn't sound

good, but say people really latch on

to the $440,000 by November this year. It's not happening.

It's not happening. I've been calling consistently that it won't. People are

like, oh, you're so bearish, or it's going to $250,000. Maybe,

maybe not. Whatever, like eventually it will. But if you need it

at 250,000 and it's at 125,000, all

that means is you need twice the amount of Bitcoin. You don't need Bitcoin's price

to be twice as high. You just need twice the amount of

Bitcoin. So sort of that's the way that I approach it

as you know, when I have a hundred million dollars or

just making up a hypothetical number, I'll be

happy. For that to happen, I need Bitcoin at X amount of price. Well,

Bitcoin's at this price now, so that just means that I need this

much more Bitcoin now. Yeah,

like it's hard. Say I

gave myself the promise that I'd stop flying for four years and I'd just buy

Bitcoin week in, week out or every two weeks. Then

I got to the four-year mark, and I'd made all that money and stuff,

and I'm like, nah, fuck it, let's keep going, let's go for one more year.

And so I did it, and then I got to the five-year mark, and

I was like, Like, Sean, what are you doing? And

I say to myself, I'm getting more Bitcoin. I'm like, how much more Bitcoin do

you need, bro? I just need more Bitcoin. And the

young little boy inside of me is like, dude, I need to fucking go

flying. What are you doing? So I called

the guy up and then got my medical and sorted out a check flight. Um,

and he tried to cancel it because the cyclone was off the coast and stuff. I'm like, no,

like we're going today. I've booked this in a month ahead. And he's like, it's too windy, bro.

I'm like, what do you mean it's too windy? He's like 36 knot crosswind or 32 knot

crosswind. He's like, it's 26 knot crosswind. I'm like, and? He's

like, you're only allowed to fly up to a 32 knot crosswind. I'm like, great. It's 26. Let's go.

Um, and then, then got it. But Listening to

myself and that younger kid inside of me is like, Sean, what are

your dreams? You're in a position where you could literally do whatever you wanted,

everything that you've dreamed of, why don't you do it? And I

got into crypto to buy an airplane. And I made

enough money for an airplane and I put that money in Bitcoin. But the thing is, once

I put it in a Bitcoin, it's not coming out. So now I've got this

Bitcoin and no airplane. So now

I'm like, oh, I need to make the company more profitable. We'll be able to get more cash so

I can get an airplane. But then we make profits in the company and then I put it into

Bitcoin. And then once it's in Bitcoin, it's not coming out to be

able to buy the toys. So I

struggle with this all the time, this greed and stuff. But

Yeah, but Sean, this comes back to the question then. If

you've got, let's say $10 million worth of

Bitcoin, are you telling me that you wouldn't even borrow $500,000 out

of that and go buy your plane? Correct. Okay,

Sean Clarke is stoic. Just stack

sats and just get more Bitcoin. Like, Matt, the way I see it is

we get digital IDs at the end of the year. And then what happens? Then

they bring out central bank digital currencies. And then what happens? Then we have social

credit scores. Then what happens? Everyone in the fiat system is

a fucking slave. They're entrapped. They have no freedom.

They have no fuck you money. They are beholden. If the

government says jump, they say they jump. If here's a

jab, the fucking take the jab like everyone is absolutely

fucked if they don't hold bitcoin in self custody if they don't want

to hold bitcoin in self custody maybe physical gold is not

going to work as well but it's still an amazing medium exchange in

the store of value if you don't have one of those two and bitcoin's the

better one but if you don't have either of those two i'm scared shitless about

that maybe i've taken it way too far in my mind maybe Maybe I've

gone down far too many rabbit holes, and we're not going to know until it's too

late. But I don't want to get to that point where I'm one day too late and realize,

oh, fuck, you fucked up. You should have saved on to that extra million dollars

of Bitcoin, that extra $10 of Bitcoin or $100 of Bitcoin. The

numbers don't matter. It's just about having more Bitcoin, because not

everyone's going to have Bitcoin. All your friends don't have Bitcoin. Your family doesn't have

Bitcoin. your community be

able to go around the community, like what Peter Dunworth is doing in Bedford. That's

the power of Bitcoin. And we're not at the stage of central bank digital currencies

yet, but they're coming. And then what happens to China? Or what happened with

the Bank of Thailand recently? Brought out digital IDs, people

didn't get them, like millions of bank accounts just closed. That's

the mission that I'm on now, is Bitcoin in self-custody. And

I think we've got three years at the very most. And the people

that have Bitcoins will be the people that have yachts. And

then everyone else will have nothing. And that's absolutely fucked. So yes,

I'm stacking for myself, but I'm also stacking for my circle. And

then we get to that point. And if it's not as bad as

everything, Bitcoin still number go up technology. So we get more and more wealthy. But

if shit hits the fan, Matt, we've got freedom money. So

we can be sovereign, we can help out our friends and family. If we want to

eat steak when they're serving WEF bug protein, we

can eat steak. And that's what's going to happen. Their carbon credit scores, banks

are already starting to track it and all that bullshit. So it's

now, and then we get to that point, say the worst happens, only

one with Bitcoin. Okay, everyone else is going to want Bitcoin. How easy is

it to get a plane then with that amount of Bitcoin? Like fucking super easy.

People will be giving away absolutely everything they can for Bitcoin. So

again, like the answer to me, Now, it's just

more. And maybe that's not a healthy, emotional place

to be able to live from, because I'm terrified of

digital IDs and central bank digital currencies, on

one sense, but on the other sense that I know that I have Bitcoin and self-custody, I'm

running my own node. So

it gives me that peace of mind, but I don't want to give up any of that peace of mind

where I've worked and stayed in that job around

people that were just nice and kind and everything like

that, but they were just aiming for mediocrity and stuff. I

dealt with that day in, day out to be able to live and fulfill this

mission and be on purpose. I'm not going to give that up

to the bank to be able to pay twice the amount of interest

where I can just loan against the house if I wanted to or whatever. So that's

my rant on that. Fucking love it That

was a big coin and self-custody ladies and gentlemen, like it's fucking really

important in my opinion But yeah, I'll fuck around and find

I hope I'm wrong Yeah, well, I hope you're wrong, too. But

what you're saying, though, Sean, is that the signs are there. You know what I mean? Like, you look at

the UK right now. They're rolling out their digital ID. They're

doing it under the guise of protecting everybody against the invasion

and working and this, that, and the other. And it just changes, basically,

daily, this digital ID thing. I

think Australia has already started down that,

of course, with the digital ID, essentially, to protect

the children against the social media. I'm

surprised people aren't just marching in the street against this. I

think in Australia, though, they're just so blasé. They're so brainwashed. But they're so

blasé about it, like, oh, no, we'll just go along with it. We'll

just go along with it. But let me tell you, I actually sat

down with someone once, and I said, this digital ID could be coming. And they went, yeah,

we think it's good. I was like, what? They said it was good. Yeah?

Because you need to streamline things, and there's nothing

in their words. Yeah, it'll be easier, faster. No, in their

words, Sean, it was, we've got nothing to hide.

Yeah, we've got nothing to hide. So the government can take all our ID

and this, that, and the other, and make it all digital. But I said, you could be going down

to the credit score system like

you have in China. They're like, yeah. I don't think they really got

the concept of it. I think it's absolutely terrifying, to be honest. And

actually, I've got children. So I'm sort of

thinking about them. What sort of world are they going to live in as

Well, this bill will protect them. That's

what the government reckons. It's just

a load of nonsense. It's always about control. And

that doesn't mean they're going to bring it out, Matthew, and then it's going to be dystopian from

day one. No, they're going to wait for another crisis, or they're going to plan another

crisis a couple of years down the track. But they've got everything in

place. And I guess that's why I was railing against Division

296 so much with the $3 million unrealized capital gains tax so

much. I don't have $3 million in my super. We'll hit that. And

it'll far exceed. And that's the point of having Bitcoin in self-custody in

your self-managed super fund. Like you recommend people do it. Use

Matt's link and get a Bitcoin self-managed super fund or talk to someone at least

about it, because it's probably the only thing that's going to get you $3 million threshold. Nowhere

near it. And people like it's only

going to affect a small portion. I'm like, you're missing the point, ladies and

gentlemen. Once they bring in unrealized capital gains the way it's written, it

could apply to the family home. Like just like

having an unrealized capital gains as a communist tax for number one,

like it's no other OECD nation

has one. Anyway, if they want to bring it in, that's

just total wealth confiscation, communism in this country. And

then people are like, oh, it only affects 0.1% or whatever

of people. Okay, like they're the people that have done

really well, they've played by the rules, they've sacrificed their now

for their retirement. So they're not a burden to society. And

you want to change the rules on those people, the ones that are provided value, like

no, I'm not having that. But then again, It's

not about that. It's just once that law is in place or

that bit of legislation that allows them to tax unrealized capital

gains on super balances, something happens, the

bond market or whatever blows up. They're like, oh, we need to come

after your house now. And people are like, oh, that'll never happen. But

a couple of years ago I said, well, unrealized capital gains tax never

happened in this country. And we just missed it. We just missed it, yeah. just,

but like any power, they're

never going to give back. They'll just take more and they'll build on top of

it and it'll get worse and worse and worse. We're not going to notice these incremental

totalitarian footsteps that they're doing, but you'll wake up

in five or 10 years and realize like, oh shit.

How did we get here? Yeah, but people are just sort

of shell-shocked of PTSD, and they don't notice that that

What do you think then, Sean? You know, Labor has done the backflip on

the unrealized capital gains tax, and now they've scrapped that

apparently. And the new proposal is

30% tax above $3 million and 40% tax above $10 million. Do

you think, because this was posed to me, that the unrealized capital

gains tax was actually never the intention. It was this other

huge tax above the $10 million, 40% is a

big chunk. Do you think this was always the goal, or

do you actually think it was a backflip against people opposing the

Yeah, I've heard that theory as well. And who knows, I

don't know if we could give them enough credit to be

that smart. So, so many years out, obviously, they have, you

know, PR firms, propaganda, public relation firms behind

them helping them with their messaging. But they have been trying to

do that unrealized capital gains tax and push it through consistently for

a couple of years as well. It's not like it started off, or

there's any conversation about higher taxes. It

started with unrealized capital gains tax, but who

knows? Yes,

like any tax, I think we pay far too much tax,

but I still believe for the majority of people, it

is in a better situation. It's

Who knows? How are we ever going to know? Yeah. Speaking of taxes, and

this comes up a lot now because we live in one of the highest taxed

countries in the world. It's absolutely insane in this country.

No incentive whatsoever for people to work the extra shift

or the overtime or anything like that, or to do wealth in

business. Is moving out of

Australia something that you and your wife have considered? Much

like you interviewed Adam Hudson, for example, he's in Cyprus. I'm

planning on getting a golden visa to Dubai at the very least. Is

Yeah, so I've already got a second plan B

passport and the country undisclosed, which is good. It's

not necessarily a... Tasmania is not

another country though, Sean. We are actually

going to Tassie next month or

maybe this weekend. I don't know. We're going to Tassie soon. I've never been

there before to be able to check it out. I look forward to going.

I've never been either. Yeah, dude, it looks absolutely stunning. I'll

appreciate the cooler weather. Hopefully it's got so hot and

humid here. But yeah, so we've already got

that in place. And

the place is fucking nowhere near as dystopian as

here. But truth be told, like, where's as

beautiful as Australia, mate? Like, I walk upstairs, we're

looking out at islands surrounded by the coral reef, for

example, and there's a lot of them, and then not far, you

know, up the road, there's a beautiful rainforest and stuff

like, to be able to do that, or you go down to Victoria State

and out of Melbourne, because that place is crazy, but like, you go out into, to

the Dandenong Ranges and stuff for the Yarra Valley like that's God's

country. It's just like. or the

Sunshine Coast hinterland, for example, the beaches on

the Gold Coast, Sunshine Coast, the Sydney, the

Northern beaches, et cetera. Tasmania looks beautiful. Western

Australia, the reefs, everything like that. Like what

place beats Australia? And I live in a small little town, so we

don't have like all the wokeness and the division and

people like marching through the streets and causing nuance

and all that stuff. We've avoided a lot of that. during COVID

and stuff, it stayed like super pretty chill. Like we didn't really notice

that that was going on. So I'm not immersed in that so much. So

we'll stay here for as long as

possible, but like if we need to go,

What do you think, because I have this conversation with my wife, is like

I say, when, what is the breaking point? At what

point do you say, okay, we're out? Do you have something in

Well, Unrealized Capital Gains was probably the biggest one.

Yeah, it's like when that passed, a

subscriber, you know, sent me a text message and like they've

shut it down and I just jumped and Yahoo'd and

stuff. I was just like, holy shit, I could breathe again.

I felt like I hadn't been able to breathe for nine months, a year from

that. So that would have been one. Digital

IDs, we're going to see how we can navigate those as much as possible.

We'll see, you know, obviously a close relationship with

Tony with the Bitcoin way and stuff, so they can... There's

things like VPNs, different phones and stuff, but we'll just

see what happens with that, and then we'll judge it

from there. You know, digital IDs paired with CBDCs, that's

time probably to get the fuck out of here if that happens. That's like...

The digital IDs that I think are an issue in and of themselves, but

they become an issue very quickly once they're paired with digital IDs because that

means the social credit scores are

coming very quickly and that's when things get dystopian. So

I think that would probably be one of those moments where we

Someone, I was watching another

podcast recently, and they were talking about, actually might have even

been with Tony from the Bitcoin Way, actually. I think I

was watching his podcast. And he was saying, look, you know, the KYC

in itself, when you have to know your customer goes through all the checks in

Australia to basically open up anything now, That in itself is

not bad. Showing your ID to open up an account doesn't seem

like something bad. But the effect of that

is a centralized database now has all of your information.

And even if you said, well, they're not going to do anything nefarious with the

data, other people hack into the system, and they steal your data.

That's right. So we've created this honeypot for criminals

that want to steal our data and use it for bad things. Now,

you could argue then, well, we should scrap KYC then,

because then we wouldn't have this centralized system. Because

what happens is the criminals steal the data, then they can't come back and

try and scam you out of all your assets, including your Bitcoin, right?

Yeah. Yeah, I think they can. It's perpetuated

for safety and anti-money laundering and

fraud and stuff like that. Like how much fraud

and how many billions of dollars have gone through JP Morgan as a

bank for example? It really doesn't stop

the fraud. All it does is put people like you

and I, the ladies and gentlemen watching this video at

risk, the everyday person. Matt, they want

to bring out this digital ID in Australia. The government's creating

it and who knows if it works or not. But the Prime

Minister of Australia, Anthony Albanese, his

phone number got leaked through a data hack

or whatever. The Prime Minister of Australia, they can't keep his private mobile

phone number safe and they want to collect everyone's

And you know what else is on politics for a second? Tony Burke came

out recently and said that he wants to start cracking down on

Bitcoin ATM machines, right? Apparently,

it's money laundering and things like this, right? We're going to crack down on

the Bitcoin ATM machines. No one really, even who's in the Bitcoin space, even uses

those anyway. They're so expensive, man. They're so expensive. But

here's the thing. Criminals are

also using mobile phones. Should we

Well, dude, it's sort of like that reaction in

Victoria to the machetes. There's machete attacks, so they put out bins,

and they want to ban machetes. Who's that hurt? That hurts the

farmers. I've got a machete. I live in Queensland, so

I'm not breaking the law. Like, it's fucking, it is so stupid. I'll

grab the machete, I'll put it in my teeth, I'll climb up a coconut tree, and I'll cut

out a bunch of coconuts. And it's just a tool.

I'm using it for good, the farmer's using it for sugarcane or whatever, but it's

the farmers that were handing the machete so that they're not breaking the law. And

there's still machete attacks. Or once they brought out that, there's hammer

attacks or screwdriver attacks or whatever. Like

just problem, reaction, solution. They just trigger happy

Totally agree. Well, I think, Sean, we're probably going to start

winding it up now because we've just been talking for so long. And

the rant that you put in there was absolutely brilliant. I'm

going to cut that piece out specifically and then plaster it everywhere, which

is awesome. I just want to say thank

you so much for joining me on the show. Thank you so much for everything that

you do in the Bitcoin orange

peeling space, I should say. And I hope to have you

Ladies and gentlemen, please study Bitcoin, The Big Print. It's

an amazing book by an amazing man. If you read it

front to back cover, and you choose not to buy Bitcoin, at least you understand enough

to make an informed decision. I've only had one person say

Bitcoin's not for me and he's a very, very wealthy guy. It doesn't matter what happens

Yeah, G'dayBitcoin on YouTube as well

as Spotify, Fountain App, and Apple

Podcast at SeanClark911 on

X and G'dayBitcoin.com on the website. I've consolidated

a whole lot of links that should help speed up your Bitcoin journey there

Awesome, and I highly recommend people follow Sean wherever he goes on

X and YouTube, et cetera. I've been following him for years. He's a true legend of

this space in Australia. Thanks so much, Sean. Appreciate you,

Matt. Thank you. Hey, thanks for tuning into Crypto Collective.

If you enjoyed this video, the best way to show your support is

to subscribe to the channel, or if you're listening on Spotify, leave

a five-star review. It really helps me to create more

content just for you. Also, If you're ready

to level up your crypto journey, make sure to check out CoinStash.

It's the platform that I trust to buy, sell, and

hold crypto with ease. You can also find more of me at

I'm Matthew Fraser on all social media platforms. Take