So what's going on, everybody?

Hey, everybody.

Hey. Hey.

Hi, I'm Derek.

I'm Matt.

I'm Dave. And this lovely creature next to me is Alicia, my wife of almost 21 years.

Now, he's very proud.

I am very proud.

Yes.

I don't know how you do it.

Some days I wonder, bro.

So that's the smear campaign I walked into.

No, it's fun. It's fun.

We didn't know.

We haven't even discussed. Is Ms.

Right. That's why she's sitting on the outside. I can't leave.

We are gonna tell people today the correct way to parent their children.

Oh, boy.

No, we're not.

That's a tall order, especially when we don't all agree.

Right.

But that's okay. That's okay. So the opening question that I want to start us open with today before we get into the prayer and all that is, what will your kids say about your faith? And I just kind of want to. Popcorn that in. Whoever wants to answer first, can answer first.

But what will your kids say about your faith? Well, it's funny because you panicked for years because worship has been the number one thing. Like, we actually went to. For two months. We went to John Piper's church. You know, John Piper is.

Yep.

Okay. So we actually got to see him preach live and stuff. And he is amazing. But the worship in the church was kind of lacking. And so as amazing as the worship was, she was like, I'm just not getting anything from the worship. I want to check out something else.

And so for the record, you say worship, you're talking worship through music.

Worship music.

Yeah.

We've had this conversation just because, you know, worship.

Worship comes in many forms.

Yep. So she comes from a heavy singing family. They used to just randomly break out in song while they were cooking and stuff. So music's huge for.

Can you feel.

That's right.

Exactly. Show tunes, Disney songs, hymns, it didn't matter. It all fit.

Yeah. We are that family, too.

That's cool. Breath and bone. That makes sense. But. So her biggest concern has always been feeling like, I don't know, that our kids are sold out enough for. For this. And I don't know if they really are super into worship music and things like that. And then organically, like, whenever Syla rides in the car with you, that's what he picks. Like, he picks some type of worship music. And Kailyn is the one who has been pushing me to go into and be part of the worship service and stuff. And so she's actually gonna be trying out for the worship team in the youth group. And that wasn't because we pushed them hard or anything. It just happened organically. So I feel like that in and of itself, though, the words. I appreciate your worship music. Push. Even though the words weren't spoken, I feel like the actions spoke just as strongly.

Yeah. I think what they would say about our faith is that it's consistent.

Interesting word.

Shotgun. Good Uzi sniper.

Oh, wow.

This is how it works.

So she wins and you win. That's what it comes down to.

So, I mean, I think for my kids, they would. I mean, I'd imagine they say that I take it seriously, and that is important to me. My fate. I mean, I might even. They might even from time to time think that I'm a little obsessive, Especially when I'm really dialed in on something that I'm doing deep dives in on and studying. Yeah, I mean, I guess. I mean, I've definitely always had it as a very forefront. This is important to me. My wife and I have always had it that way where, you know, we bring faith into pretty much anything. And so, I mean, maybe it's even annoying.

Dad's faith is annoying.

You know, why you being.

Being. Being a parent who is also working at the church. Yeah. Which, I mean, even if you have only one parent that's working at the church, it. Both of you essentially are those parents at times. Because it's a core thing. It's a whole, whole family thing. It's hard. It's got to be hard for the kids, man.

Like, I mean, it's definitely. They don't deserve the attention they get. I'll tell you that much.

You're getting them.

No, they don't deserve. Like, the thing is, as soon as you work at a church or you go into ministry, your kids are going to get extra attention that they don't deserve.

Oh, gotcha.

I was like, yeah, no, when I go home.

No, not for me. They deserve all the attention I give

them more than they deserve.

What I mean is, from other people, they put heavy. As soon as they're like, oh, you're in ministry. Oh, you have kids. Heavy burden. And I'm like, oh, they don't deserve that at all. So it's a lot. And then, you know, it's difficult. Like, for instance, like for my teens, you know, when dad's also the youth pastor, you know, they can't just have a youth pastor and a dad.

Yep.

Like other kids get to have. They get both. And that's different. It's all very different for them because, like, my other students will come to me about all kinds of things going on in their life.

Yeah.

And then all they have is that. So, I mean, that's a little frustrating

for them, I would say, with my daughter, like, I feel like. I mean, she's nine. She loves it here. She loves everything about church. And that is a testament to all the people that have been in the church that have helped raise her. But I would say that, like, it's gotta be annoying that we're here all the time.

Oh, yeah.

You know, I mean, now your kids are able to be away a little bit, but they're older.

I mean, their social life is very much tapped around church.

But our whole life is here. We are here constantly.

We're here a lot. Well, I mean, you think about it, not only are we here when everybody else is normally here, but we're here on special occasions, too. We tend to throw birthday parties and different celebrations here. And there's just so much that they're constantly involved with in the same building. You know, the church is. I mean, in some ways, it's great to think of the church as my second home, but when that's really the reality of it, especially for children, it can be a lot. I mean, but it's. This isn't the. I mean, we've run into this for a long period of time. We were, you know, over the years, when we first started getting really into some of the churches we were up north. It just becomes part of your life. Well, okay. Well, we're here on Sunday mornings, and we might be there Sunday nights, and we might be here this day and that day and this day, and we're just kind of running back and forth. And sometimes it's Mom's there or sometimes Dad's there, and sometimes we're there. You know, that's the kind of mentality that they're running into. And, you know, there's good things about it, you know, for sure. But I'm sure when they look at other kids and all the different things that they have that are different, they start to wonder what they might be missing out, or at least in their mind, they think they're missing out on or. And they could not really be, but.

Well, to a degree, I mean, you even worked for Victory for many, many years. And to the point where most of our life was at church. So all the people who would come over were also from church, and they would typically come over. And at some point during the night, whether it was right away in the middle or towards the end, it was, oh, hey, Alicia. So I was thinking, what if we took the coffee bar and we put it, like, over on that side? Could you suggest that to Pastor Larry? And she would immediately start. She walk away and start crying. It's like, I'm so done talking about church. I just want to have a life outside of church.

We lived with our senior pastor for a while. Lizzie was working at the church, and I was working at the church. We were both working here with the senior pastor, not the one that's here now. We were living with him and his family, and we were living in their garage. So I get it. Like, I get that you couldn't get away from it. And Lizzie. Lizzie's the guy. I'm okay with it. Like, I'm. I'm fine with it, but my wife is like, nope, I need to get away.

There's gotta be. I think it helps if you develop a healthy flow of talking about other things even while you're at the church. So, for instance, you know, our crew here, our staff, and our elders, you know, we tend to get into each other's lives in so many different ways. And even when we're in the office, it's nothing for us to bring up conversation about stuff that really has nothing to do with work.

Sure.

And you could tie it in if you wanted to, but, like. But that's part of the relational part. So that even if we are hanging out outside of work, you know, it's not so foreign that the only thing you have in connection is the work. And so, I mean, don't get me wrong, Even on Thanksgiving, we stopped for, like, five to 15 minutes, and we're like, let's discuss this thing real quick. And I was like, you, myself, and Nick, we're just kind of going on about something, and then you kind of have to move away from it because, like, you realize, wait, we're not even that, like, this isn't what we're here for today, but it is a danger. But, you know, get yourself into a good rhythm where if you're. If all you're talking about at work is just work and you have no other relationship with those people, and you. Then you're forced to be with them outside of it. Of course, that's the only thing you're gonna have to talk about.

Right.

Because everything else feels awkward.

That's it.

Yeah. I would hope that my daughter. Not that she has the words for this, but she might would say consistent, rather Than constant, you know.

Right.

Like instead of that negative connotation, I would hope that she would have a positive. And I think she does. She has a pretty positive outlook on life, but.

Good.

I don't know. I don't know. I feel sometimes that that weight of, you know, it's. She should have a more normal childhood, you know, which I think is something that a lot of people probably feel, whether they're in the church, out of the church, whatever.

So I mean, that's something our enemy's gonna do is try to make them feel like they're missing out on something. That there's something that we're keeping them from. And that's part of the challenge of being set apart and then trying to set your family apart. Yep.

Very good.

Yep. I would actually. Here's a question for you. What if. What's your thought on like. Because I think one of the biggest issues that we have with the church in general, not necessarily this one or ours, but like the big C is when it comes to people who serve. Right. Your biggest thing is I'm sacrificing all of this time that I could be doing this or doing that. You're good. I wasn't sure. I was too close to.

No, no, no.

Anyway. But I had this thought not too long ago of like. Like, would you rather be busy furthering the kingdom of God or would you rather be busy sitting around watching movies and working on your garage and doing xyz, like filling time with something else? So it's like, is it necessarily a bad thing that we're spending so much time working with, on or around the church because we're doing something that matters with our time.

I don't think it's a bad thing as long as you're intentionally taking time, not doing that.

Correct.

So I mean, everything's gotta have a balance.

Or intentionally including them.

That too. That too.

That's important. I think that that is. I mean, it can be your all encompassing life as long as they're your priority. Still in the midst of it.

Well, I tell you what, that's also. There is a little bit of a trick to that too. Especially when your kids start, like with my boys, they don't mind helping out when they feel like it's them being genuinely wanting to care and help. But then what ends up happening is, especially because they're my kids, the second they start taking on a task and then maybe even do it once or twice, people are like, well, that's your job now. We expect that from you. They're like, that's not what we were doing at all.

You understand?

Like, it was part of. And it's funny because for them, when they're able to do it on their own accord, they feel like they're serving, they're doing something that matters. But the second somebody's trying to place it on them, they're like, they buck the system. They want that. Like, stop trying to put that on me. You know, it changes it for them. And so that's a little difficult. So there's always a balance in that, too. But, yeah, so, I mean, like, spending a lot of time doing the serving and all that, that's great. Especially if you can get them involved and especially if they're psyched about it. But you got to have a rhythm where you just kind of stop and go, okay, we're going to go do something that has nothing. Well, nothing. But like, there's not in that building. Yeah. You know, 100%, you know, and, you know, but I mean, everybody needs a season of rest.

Sure.

Whether, you know, you got your regular Sabbaths and your. Your family Sabbaths and all those things that you have to build in. You know, you got to have a rhythm of rest or else you're going to run into problems.

Yep.

Yeah.

Well, go ahead. No, I was just going to say the. I have recently taken over the parking lot ministry again. And so it's stuff like the parking lot's really old and dingy, So I was like, I want to make at least this newcomer parking spot area look nice. So I came. I was like, I'm gonna come in and I'm gonna paint, repaint all the curbs and everything. And so I had went to my son, and I'm like, do you want to come help me? And originally he was like, sure. And then at the last, I'm like, do you want to come help me? Cause it's gonna be hours and we're gonna be outside. And he went, are you gonna be upset if I don't like. That's okay. That's fine. I'm giving you the option. But then there are other times, like, hey, we're all going to the church because we need to clean up. It's all hands on deck. I really need you guys to come with us. So that's a no. The end.

Well, next the question is going to be, are we raising disciples or children who just behave? So that's going to be the next question. Welcome to the Truth Response. Dave's gonna pray for us today.

Oh, I had prepped her to do it, but. Okay. All right.

You're gonna do it.

All right. Thank you, Jesus, for bringing us all together. Thank you for 20. Let's see, close to 23 years of wedded bliss. Well, 20 years of wedded. 20 and a half years of wedded. But more than that in relation, anyway. And two amazing kids that have given me a fantastic foundation for Christian parenting. And thank you for the amazing people that have been surrounding me to help me be a better dad and a better father and a better husband and guide our words, thoughts, and actions today. So your glory shines through. Amen.

Amen.

Did you make another new hat?

I totally threw that in the fort.

You can make hats?

Well, not hats, but I can make the patches.

Oh, that's cool. Oh, that makes sense. Because the laser engraving thing makes sense.

I made a bunch of those this week.

You made a bunch of these?

Yeah, I had people asking for them, so.

Because they saw mine.

Yeah.

Nice advertising.

All right, so going back to the question.

Yeah, I do hat patches anyways.

Yeah. Shameless plug.

All right, so the question is, and anybody can answer, are we raising disciples or children who behave?

Well, I think the immediate thing that pops into my head is that kids pay attention to about 3% of what you say and 97% of what you do. This is not gonna help for any of the people who are not watching the video, but my wife used to do the. Or, I'm sorry, my daughter, when she was about two years old, when she would get up in your face, she would put her hand, her right hand sideways, and slap her down into her left hand. She'd say, you need to stop.

Oh, yeah, I would do that.

Right?

I had to stop.

I was leading them into that. I was gonna say, we couldn't figure out why she was doing it until one day I saw you walk up to her and say, kaylin. I went. That's where she got it. So. Never said out loud. But I think when it comes down to raising disciples or. What was the question? Raising disciples or children who behave? Children who behave. I think a lot of that can go hand in hand, But I think a lot of the disciple portion is simply just letting them see you do life, letting them see you make a mistake, letting them see you struggle, letting them work. Like now. They're to an age where I will now bring them into hard conversations and say, hey, this is something we're legitimately struggling with. We've got this much debt. This is our situation. This is what's going on. Going on. I want you to be aware. So when we say we can't afford it, it's. It's real.

Yeah, we. We've had that. I've had that conversation with Serenity even. And she's nine, you know, like, just like, hey, look, we're gonna have to cut out some of the TV channels we watch or whatever, you know, the streaming services and. And those sorts of things, because, you know, Dad's trying to start his own business, you know, like, and all of that. And so. So we. Yeah, we. I feel you on that one. That's a. Yep.

And I know you sometimes take a little longer to kind of process the question. So we were talking about this on the way over. It's like I said. So if I might ask you a question, I'm not going to throw it at you immediately. I might say, here's the question, convey a short thought, then come back to you. So any thoughts on, like, do you feel like we're raising disciples or obedient children? Hopefully both.

Again, I think it goes hand in hand, but I do think that we are. I mean, I hope and pray that we're raising disciples because of the way that we act around our kids, too. And one of the things that I was bringing up today was just being willing to admit your own faults and mistakes and apologize when you do make a mistake is, I think, a huge part in raising a disciple in any area of life. But specifically with our kids, that's something that we are very, very. We value a lot, is making sure that if we make a mistake, we will own up to it and apologize and ask for forgiveness. And so that's. That's a big area where I think that. And hope and pray that we are raising disciples.

Yeah, I would much. I mean, don't get me wrong, I don't want my kids acting fools. But at the same time, I would very much give more importance to discipling them over if they're acting as, like, the perfect little angels that somehow some people expect them to be. Plus, I mean, like I said earlier, with the expectations that get put on them, the harder I push at that point, the worse it's going to get. And the last thing I want is for them to play the part and then run away as soon as they get a chance. So that is not an option for me. So I'd rather them act a little fully sometimes, but still start to get the ideas than to just try to play the part and then not really care at all. You know, I'd rather have the heart of it. And you're right to live the example and to try to show them. And like I said, I think my kids would definitely say that my faith is important to me. And, you know, if it's important to me, hopefully they can wonder why at least and start to try to put those pieces together. And they come to me, you know, the fact that, you know, they will come and ask questions about their friends or they'll ask questions about things that they ponder or they're not sure if they understand. And, you know, sometimes my kids, like, I have twin boys, and they're in a middle school group, and they don't. They don't want to be the first ones to raise their hand for many reasons. You know, they're also at that age where it's not really cool to do so. But, like, also, you know, they're also the pastor's kids, and they don't want to be expected to know everything.

True.

But.

But even in that, there are times where just when I'm thinking, are they even listening? They'll say something amazing and I'm like, okay, we're okay. We've got something in there, you know, like, we're doing something right. And, you know, so you do what you can to just instill the best values, I think. And I hope that, you know, especially at the age, like, the worst, like, is my boys are looked at the most because of their age group and because they're twin boys, and they've always been that way. Like, when you bring a set of twins into a room, especially twin boys, people are automatically thinking, like, what's up with these twin boys? Like, they are wondering what's about to happen. And you know what? For the record, twin boys are a lot. And they're a lot to bring in any situation. It can be. But, like, stop judging them so darn hard. Give them some space, you know, Allow them to screw up first. Then. You know what I mean?

Like, yeah, but.

But yeah, when you have them and there's two of them in the same age group and they're egging each other on in the same mentalities that they are, which in middle school age is the dumbest mentality sometimes.

Sure.

You know, they basically, you put them. Put them together. I like to joke sometimes. And I love my boys. So if you're listening to this boys, I love you to death. But when you guys get together, you share a brain. And then what's worse is you put

their friends, Our statistics say that they're not right.

Then you Add their friends. And every time you add another friend, there's. They're dividing, they're multiplying fractions. When it comes to a brain cell, it's weird. I don't know, the ideas that come and get, you know, tried out aren't always great. Yeah.

So I want to go back to something you touched on with the sheltering from hard topics like, when is that the right thing and when is that the wrong thing?

All right. Well, I think a lot of that has to come down to timing. Trusting the Holy Spirit to let you know when it's okay to talk. Like, for instance, we brought our. We brought our daughter once to. We went out to eat and then we had the intention of having the talk with her. And so we took her to dinner. And she was what, 14?

No, I think she was closer to 12.

It was 12. Okay. So we took her out, took her to Olive Garden, then we went to a neutral location because we didn't want to burn Olive Garden for the rest of her life. And then had the talk with her. She was very grateful. We took her somewhere else because she

was, she appreciated it very much.

Although the next time we said, let's go to Olive Garden, she goes, oh, no, we're okay.

She did.

Is there another serious talk coming? But no.

And then, so we were ready to have that conversation. She definitely, like, I could tell she can handle the information. She was, she was, was ready to process what we were giving. And then, unfortunately, I had to. We had to have the conversation with our son a lot sooner than I was ready for because he stumbled across something he shouldn't stumble across. Right? So then in that situation, I'm like, I am forced now to have this conversation I don't want to have. But alright. So I kind of just sat there. And one thing I found very effective with our kids, and as you'll attest, every kid is different, right? You could have six kids all yours, and they're all completely different. And so him. What I found an effective tool is if he ever doesn't want to share, I can literally go in the room, sit down at the bed and just say, talk to me and be quiet. And within a few seconds he'll start talking, right? And so we had the conversation. He got really quiet. And I said, if you have any questions, I know it's weird and I know it's awkward. I said, but I have to please trust me. And he said, okay, I have nothing. And I got up and as I got to the door, he goes, actually, and Then it was eight of the most awkward questions ever in a row. But at least he asked them. So I was very happy with that.

He's great with that. He did that. And then for three days, my son wouldn't let me put him to bed. It was an awkward time for him, having just learned about all that. And it was very. I had to allow that space. And so it could have been something that hurt not being. Because we've always been together for bedtime, you know, hugs and kisses and all that stuff. So it was. It was a. It was something I had to recognize as not my territory, not my space, not my time. And I lost my train of thought.

Well, I mean, if with. With our kids, we approached it more of like, look when they want to know, and. Or, you know, we tried to make it so that this conversation started before it became a shock, you know, where suddenly we're giving them a whole bunch of information. It's all, you know, it's a fire hose. So even our. So ours. Our daughter's eight, and I think it might have been a year ago or so that we were like, she started asking some big questions. And my wife's like, okay. And so we have some, like, materials, some resources that we, you know, these books and stuff that help kind of explain things and. And we'll walk them through it. And that's kind of the same thing we did with the boys and my older daughter ahead of them and such like this. Well, it's just open conversation. If you want to know something, I'd rather you hear it from me. And we just kind of looked at that. Sometimes if we start to see things, we should try to start heading it off at the past. Like, okay, so it looks like you're getting into these things. Is this. What is this? What is that? What do we need to talk about here? You know, because we didn't want them to get misinformation. We didn't want them trying to get information from their friends. And so. And, you know, we're homeschoolers. So it's like, well, we are also sex ed teachers, so might as well. But it wasn't like, well, they have to be a certain age or there has to be a certain. I was like, no. Whenever we see the interest in it, we'll start answering questions.

That's it.

Almost kind of not trying to be jarring, but almost to the matter of fact, like, okay, well, it's actually kind of like this. Oh. And then to see how far they want to take that conversation. And then as that progresses, it progresses. And so my youngest has actually been more curious than any of my other kids. She's like, well, how does this happen? And so she went. We have two different books. We have Level one takes you through some of the basics, and level two takes things to a little bit further down difference when it comes to. And they're not graphic or anything, but. But like, it does talk about things a bit more. Well, then this and this and this. And, you know, with the boys it's, you know, more me, and for the girls it's more her.

Sure.

Because I can explain things on a guy level that she can't and vice versa. And she's just. They're just really funny. Like, my youngest daughter will be like, I don't know, if guys could ever do that. I'm like, no, we'd die. We would. That would not work. Or, yeah, I'm not looking forward to this, but I am looking forward to this. And mom, when do I get certain growth and what time do. I'm like, okay. And it's just like. And she just kind of answers it, you know, and we try to keep it calm and casual so it's not awkward. So if she asks a question, we just answer it.

Yeah. You can't, like, you can't have some sort of crazy reaction. Like, why are you asking this question?

We're trying to. You know, it's like when your kid

falls, if you react to them falling, they're going to cry, but if you don't, they're like, oh, I'm fine.

If you're like, hey, are you okay? They're going to be like, oh, yeah, I'm fine. If you're like, oh, my gosh, then they're going, oh, I could be hurt right now.

What? Why are you looking at me like that?

It's kind of like, you know, there's kind of like a kid that's fine until they see blood. They're like, oh, my gosh, I'm dying. No, you're not. You actually barely felt it.

But I like what you were saying. It's like the fact that she's comfortable coming to you and asking the questions obviously is key. So, like, my daughter, God bless her, she happens to have had a couple of hard situations thrown at her. She has a friend who is homosexual and another friend who is non binary. Now that there's a whole other story that goes with the. With the second one where she's now starting to come out of it because she's in a Better environment now and things of that nature. But I remember her coming to me at 14 or something like that and saying, hey, what do I do? They're non binary. I don't know how to handle this. I'm like, I appreciate you coming to me. Let's do some research. Let's think about it. How do you. How do you feel? Are you feeling that way? Like, what's. What's your immediate reaction? What do you want to do? You know, it's like, in helping them kind of like work through that. So keeping the lines of communication open has been huge.

It has been.

And then one thing I've done a lot with my daughter is we have this game. So Tom Holland is her. Is her baseline. That's. That's the. He's the most beautiful man on the planet, according to her.

He's perfection, basically.

Spider Man.

Spider Man. All right, so we played this game called. So I had this game I figured out called Deal Breaker. So I will say, all right, fine. You meet this guy. He's spitting image of Tom Holland, right? And he sings and he loves God, but he smokes. Is it a deal breaker? You know, it's like. Makes her think, okay, I'm not really sure. Well, what if he's three inches shorter than you? Okay, what if he's got a big mole right here in his face? It's like, wow.

Some of it superficial. Some of it is superficial, but some of it is like, core character kind of things. So we've been able to help her understand and develop her core character beliefs about what she desires in a spouse in the future. And I think it's caused her to have a really good outlook on what she's ready for and what she's not.

I think that's great. And the other thing that. So my wife and I also are very. We're very. What's the best way affectionate in front of our children? And, too. And not in a weird way, but like. You know what I mean?

But like, us too.

But we're always hugging on each other or kissing on each other. And our kids sometimes do that. Oh, ew. And we're like, yeah, well, you'd be happy that you have two parents that love each other and two parents that don't exactly. You know, if you look back at your parents as your childhood and go, my parents are kissing all the time, or my parents were arguing all the time. I'd rather take the kissing all the time. But also, like, how I treat their mother is really important, especially for my Daughters and my sons, like, they need to see what it is like to. First off, for my sons to know how to treat a woman and how my daughters know how to be treated. Yeah, I want to set the expectations so that when my daughters go out there, they're like, if you treat me worse than my dad treats my mom, I deserve better than that. And I enforce that. I tell them. I tell my daughters flat out, especially my one daughter, 16, and she now has her first boyfriend. And it's. It's. You know what? Here's the thing. He is an Actually, a really respectful. He actually asked me if he could ask her out and asked me about my rules, and. Which was great. Like, I really like him. I just don't like anybody dating my daughter. So that's the only hangout. But anyway, so if you're watching this, buddy, just so you know, we got

an eye on you.

But no, like, I told her ahead of time, though, like, I want better for you. Like, you see how I treat your mom. I want better for you. You deserve no less. But I want better for you. I want someone to love you more than I love your mom. Like, I want them to treat you better than I treat your mom. And she's like, I don't think that exists. And I said, I don't care if it does or not. That's what you're going for.

We're gonna find that.

And I said, cause that's what you deserve. And you know, to show them like this is. You are not to accept people that aren't going to treat you the way you deserve to be treated and give you respect and are willing to give you. And also I said to my daughter, my older daughter, you know, it's important for them to respect who I am as your dad. I said, because, you know, until you're married, you. You're mine. You're my daughter. I give you away to him. So, you know, they have to respect my rules whether you're living in my house or not. Like, they have to have respect for your dad.

Yeah.

Because if they can respect, then. Then they'll be a respectable father and they'll be a respectable husband. I said, these are the things you need to think about. And also setting some terms and dating and stuff like that, because I bring more courting into it. You know, for instance, like I told her and she told him, and that's why he asked me. I said, your first date is my dinner table. I said, because if he can't come to my dinner table, then he can't date you.

Amen. Amen.

You know, and the first time he

honks,

if he comes out to my door and honks, I'll disassemble his car. My driveway. And I'm a mechanic. I can do it quickly.

I think you do it with your bare hands. What?

Need to. Need tools. No, don't, don't.

So then going back to something you raised right, I like this because it's all flowing together. See, I'm trying to figure out which question I want to ask first. Should we limit exposure or teach discernment?

Okay, all right. So we.

That was an area where we differed a little bit.

Yeah. Especially when it comes to movies. So my opinion has always been I would rather introduce them to things in a controlled environment. So there was a day when Katelyn and I started going through the Star Trek reboot movies. Right. So you watched the first one. Few swear words, no big deal. I don't know how old she was, maybe 11 or 12. And so we were going through that. Then I said, let's watch the second one. And they more than made up for all the swearing. They held off in the first movie. So at one point, we're about halfway through the movie, and I paused it, and I looked at her. I said, well, you have heard every swear word in the English language multiple times. I was like, so we can continue on. And you just hear them again. I was like, or we stop and make mom happy. And she goes, we can keep going. All right, exactly. So. Exactly. So there have been tried to keep

him out of trouble, but, you know,

so there have been a couple situations, like, I'll, you know, let's say, like, I have a beer at home or something. And then, you know, my daughter will say, like, can I try that? And I'll be like, this is the quickest way for you to ever stay away from beer. Because she'll take a sip and go, that's horrible.

That's nasty.

Exactly. You know, but controlled environment. I would never do that in public.

One thing that I have very much appreciated about his mindset on that, as opposed to mine, is that he will take the time to stop something like he just said and explain why this is good, why this is bad, or ask the question for them to determine whether it's good or bad. So he's potentially exposing them to something that I wouldn't have. But he's made it into teachable moments and caused them to think for themselves, to realize their own truth and their own conviction. Because I think one of them always turned out well.

Right. Thank you. So she's a preacher's kid. All of her siblings are preacher's kids. And anyone who has been a preacher's kid, if you're listening, they tend to be. As soon as you hear, oh, you're a pk, you immediately assume they've got a bunch of skeletons in the closet, because.

Well, no, there's one or two types. There's only two types, Right. The angel and the little devil.

And so. But what typically tends to happen is that those people in those situations tend to be so restricted that all of a sudden, all the darkness becomes interesting. It's like, oh, I've never heard of that before. Oh, I never saw that before. Oh, I've never heard this word before. You know, it's like, so. I mean, my brother has. They're a little more sheltered than. Than we tend to be. And so, like, his son came home and said a word, and they were like, whoa. And he goes, I don't know. My friends say it all the time. I didn't think it was a big deal. It's like, he had never heard that until then. So if I have the. I would. Much rather than learn about all these things where I could say, this is good, this is bad. We even had a situation where there was a basketball show on the Disney. On Disney plus for a little while. I got taken down, but it was about a NCAA coach who wound up going in to coach a high school girls basketball team. And so throughout. So it was a perfect show for me and my daughter to watch, because she was watching it as a teenager. I'm watching as a dad. And so there were multiple situations where something would happen, and I would pause the show, and I would say, how would you react in that situation? Because I'm personally kind of angry. And she's like, why are you angry? And then we would actually have, like, a conversation around what just happened in the show.

So, see, now I would like to watch movies with you in a group of guys, but any other time, I would hate watching movies with you, because I don't want you to pause it.

Oh, okay. I wouldn't do what the group would do. It's different.

Well, I mean, like, don't get me wrong.

No, no, no.

Derek and I will sit around and we'll pick a movie apart and have a nice time.

We do it intentionally. Like, intentionally.

Yes.

Otherwise, if this is the first time I'm watching a movie, y' all better be quiet.

Yeah.

And just let me watch.

Yeah, let Me get.

And unless we're having that intentional, like when we watched Exodus, Gods and Kings, like we intentionally sat down to watch that to pick it apart.

Oh yeah. I mean the whole time we're just destroying it.

Yeah, we used to do it. What was that? Mystery Science Theater 3000. You ever watched that? Like back in the day, long time ago. That was. Yeah, my brother in law and I used to do that all the time. It was rent a movie for the purpose of we're just going to rip this thing to shreds.

I did not participate.

Twilight is a great series to do that.

Oh my gosh. I got tricked into that.

Twilight, whatever.

I did. Yeah, yeah. Quick story. Like I got tricked into that series. My, I was at a really rough time in my life and my. I'm not kidding, actually for fullness. I was going through a divorce and my son had just gotten picked up by his mother and I was just completely depressed.

Yep.

And my sister walks in too because I moved back home during this period of time and my sister walks up and goes, hey, mom and I are going to go see a movie. Was like, oh yeah. She goes, yeah, it's like a vampire movie.

I'm like, oh, cool. Sweet.

I mean, because I'm into that kind of thing, but I consider vampire movies, by the way. And so I'm like, yeah, actually, you know, that sounds like a great idea. Completely different than in all my line of thinking, let's go have some fun. And so we go down there and I get my, I do my tradition, I get my popcorn, I get my soda and I'm sitting in my seat. I'm like, all right, here we go. And I don't know what it is that I'm watching.

Yep. But you know, there's vampires.

That's all I heard.

That's all you. Right.

And that's, that's all I need. And so my sister turns over to me with this funny looking grin, goes, oh, by the way, this is a chick flick. And I was like, you're not making any sense. You said that this was a vampire movie. She goes, it is. I said, yeah, once again. And so I sat there and I was like, what did I just get into? And I, and I watched it and I, this is how out of it. I was like, I watched the movie and I'm a sucker for a good story. I don't know if it's a good story, but I was at least intrigued. And so we get, we're leaving the movie. And they were like, what do you Think. And I was like, well, I mean, I guess it was okay. I'm used to, like, more action. They're like, oh, there'll probably be ones and other ones because there's some in the books. And I was like, there's books about this?

Like, what?

I don't even understand what you're like.

Right. So I saw every single one of them in theaters. I did not read the books.

I got tricked into the second one. I got tricked in the first one, tricked into the second one, and by the rest of them came out, I was like, let's just go. I'm invested. Yeah.

I think we only got halfway through the third one and then we stopped and we just haven't picked it back up yet.

Yeah, the second one. My mom tricked me that time. So she told me that hers. And it was the midnight showing. She came to me the night before. She goes, your sister bailed on me to go with her friends. Will you go with me? And I felt bad and I was like, well, at least I know what the story is. Let's go. And so I thought, I'm doing something nice. And then I get there and no, my sister didn't bail. She just was going in a separate car with her friends. And so I'm like, you did it again. I'm sitting here in another one of these.

Right. Well. And then I would say, going back to your hard topic stuff, right? So we grew up very, very different, like in our upbringing. So my upbringing was. People would walk in and my mom would walk in and I would say, how'd your day go? And she would say, not too bad. I have this weird rash and like, lift up, you know, the back of her shirt and show me this, like, just everything's on the table.

Absolutely everything.

She was exactly the opposite. It was. We don't talk about Bruno all day long, right?

Yes, Bruno was every hot topic subject. It was just.

Well, we've often talked about. That's part of the problem of the church in the last hundred years is that everything is hush hush.

Well, it's either one way or the other.

Right, Right. Well, but it's majority of the time, it's. It's the. We don't talk about this.

Yeah, that's.

That's the majority.

So, yeah, in my household, I don't

consider the churches that are like gay pride to be churches. So the one way or the other, the other is usually not considered a church.

The heretics clubs of the year. So you asked if it was about basically like keeping them or limiting them or discussing. So there's things that you do limit and then there's things you just have to be real about. I think in our household it was like every age there's stuff that like you're like, alright, so this is clear. This is going to be with me or mom. Like we're going to do this with you. And there's going to be things that are not, you know, and depending on your age and what we think you can handle, maturity wise and everything else. And so everything falls into the categories. Even with my youngest, when my youngest was, oh, I don't know, three or four, maybe it was four. She got in the show for a period of time and at first it seemed innocent. Then I started paying attention and I was like, this has got to go. There was this show called Masha and the Bear. I don't know if you ever got.

I remember Masha. That was a stupid. Wasn't it kind of like Scandinavian or some sort of weird.

Like I watched it. So she was watching it. At first it looked just like a cute thing. A little girl and a bear. And then I started paying attention, like this girl is the brattiest, unruly est little girl. I said, no, gotta go. We kicked that off and luckily she went away from it just fine. Luckily Bluey came along and everything was fine in her life.

Bluey is literally the greatest.

Yeah. So that's one of the best shows ever. But.

And we, we are radical with that though. Like we're similar in that where it's like, okay, when you're on your own, these are kind of what you can watch. And then when you're with us, we'll see. Yeah, but we like, I let her watch the old guard with me.

Okay.

You know that one, that one's like, I'm okay.

But yeah, for us. So every kid it's a different level of what will be allowing what our kids to do. Like, like, so like I said, it comes down to age, maturity and what we know they can or cannot handle or what we want them to. So there's things that we're like, okay, this is okay no matter what. Or you know, whether we're watching you or not. If you're going to watch this, you're going to sit down and watch it with us. Plus sometimes I just want to watch it with them, you know, regardless. But like, and then also I want

the experience of watching you watch this.

Yeah, that. And then plus if there's something I'm like, I really would like to be able to talk to you about this. And then there's things that it's like, yeah, so one day, but not yet.

Yep.

You know, this is not, you know, and, you know, that's been with any of them, you know, so it's hard. I don't really want to give a lot of examples, but there's just things that you realize, you know, aren't great. And then there's stuff that gets snuck into, even kid stuff. My daughter is eight, my youngest daughter. And so she starts watching a lot of things that happen on the different streaming channels that are cartoons and such. And she came across the movie recently, and I was like, what in the world? Like, she's, like, really excited to show me this movie because she sat and watched it. And my wife's like, you're not going to want her to watch this.

And.

And I was like, why?

She goes, you're gonna see in the first five minutes. And I was like, okay. So what ends up happening? It's actually the whole movie itself. The story arc is great. It has a pretty decent message, but the two. Two of the main characters are two dudes who decide that they love each other.

Of course.

Right. And I'm like, why? It doesn't really need to be there.

No, it's not. Yeah, it's a.

Like, they could have been best friends.

Yeah.

You know, it could have been so many other ways that they could have done this, but instead it was. They love interest each other. And I'm like. And at the point where it's like, you realize it first on, I'm like, what is this? And my daughter's like, just wait.

It's gonna get better, dad.

No, she did. She was like, this is. And my wife's even like, I don't know if we should keep watching this. And I looked at her and said, babe. And we start having a conversation about this, and then she's like, just wait. And so I watched the movie with her from start to finish. She's right. Other than that stupid thing.

Yeah.

I'm sorry I said that, but it's true. It didn't need to be in there. You know, for the record, you know, you don't need to even have a heterosexual couple. That's whatever. Anyway, so it could have just been a brotherhood thing, but the rest of the story had a kind of cool arc and kind of a nice, you know, message. And then at the end of the movie, of course, the two guys reconcile, and then you see them kissing, and she's like, nah. And I'm like, once again, like, you capped it on both sides. And something that did not need to be there, of course. And why you put it in there? Because there's this. Like, it feels.

It's forced.

It feels like you're forcing it upon things that don't need them to be there anyway, so. And it's a kid's movie. Like, why is this in a kid's movie?

Because it's indoctrination. Like, that's. I mean, that we. Then you've got the. The dramatic other side. I remember when. I think it was the. I think Strange World by Disney came out. We have. We have some people who went to see the movie. And I was told by the dad, he goes, dude, the minute I was like, oh, he's gonna be. He's gonna be that way, he goes, I snatched my kids up. And I said, we're walking out of this movie. And I demanded my money back. And like, okay. I was like, all right. Just like, the vehement reaction of, I'm gonna make sure they never know that this is a thing.

Well, I think that's somewhat a disservice to the point where, like, there's this. A reality that we have to be able to face, and how are we going to equip them how to have a conversation or think logically about this if we're not even that giving them. So, like, it's interesting. There's other things she watches that are perfectly fine.

I'm fine.

But, like, that was the one of the ones recently where I'm like, okay, so. And we had a conversation throughout it and definitely afterwards, and she. She was great with it in her head. Like, she. She understood it. She was just, you know, like, I really like the story. And I was like, honestly, I like the story, too. Other than those two bits. You know what I mean?

Like, other than that, I think I know the movie you're talking about.

Yeah.

Like, I was just kind of like, you know, there's certain things. And that's not the only thing. There's other things that don't need to be in shows and such. Shoot. My. My wife and I have gotten into series where the graphic nature of certain scenes might as well just be softcore pornography pretty much. And it's like, why do you need this in the show? Like, honestly, it's not further in the storyline, whatever happened. And just insinuating that these things happened.

Right, right.

You know, show me the before or the after where it's like, you don't see the romping. You just see the fact that they were kind of going towards it and the afterwards. You know what I mean?

Oh, the romping. Don't rent that movie.

Sorry, I didn't even know that was.

I'm just kidding.

Thanks very much.

It's probably not, but.

No, seriously, like. And if it's bad enough for adults, you know, you know, it. Stuff's out there.

And so I did not rent that movie. I dated myself. I will say, don't go rent that movie.

One thing that we figured out pretty quickly is that just because I loved a movie as a kid doesn't mean I should show it to my children. Because there are things.

Because we were allowed to watch it

as a kid, there are things that I forgot were in movies. And I'm talking. Everything we tried to do.

We tried to do an 80s movie night here at the church for the youth group. We went through all of the movies, and we were looking on IMDb, there's a parent parental guide. Right. We're looking at them like, oh, can't show that. Oh, we can't show that. Oh. So we ended up watching a. It came down to Willow.

Nice.

Willow was clean. Yes.

And we gotta watch Willow.

And there was. Oh, dang. What was the. It was a. A movie about a Nintendo video game.

Oh. Oh, what's it called?

Pinball Wizard.

No, the Wizard.

The Wiz.

The Wizard.

The Wizard.

The Wizard.

I think it's called the Wizard.

Yep.

And. And it's. It's. It's. It's about a video game tournament, and these kids are taken off on their own to go to a video game tournament. And that's the one we ended up watching. All right. Because. Well, we might have watched both. But anyway. Anyways. But there was, like, all these other ones that I thought, oh, this would be great. No, can't watch that.

It's amazing what you forget.

Can't watch that. Okay. Watch that.

Well, there's things that I didn't think about, like language, nudity. Yep.

Yeah.

Smoking. Drinking.

Yeah. Smoking.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Those I'm not as worried about.

Those I'm less worried about. But, like, it's just kind of like there's times where you're watching movie. You're like.

The random nudity.

Yeah, I know. Like.

Like there's just somebody in, you know, in the window and kids are walking down the street. It's like, why is this there?

Like, doesn't further the storyline. I had two that were. That were big mistakes. One was I was watching a movie. I Was watching the remake of Total Recall with my son. Completely forgot. There's a scene where he turns around, there's a woman with three boobs just hanging out. I'm like, oh, the old one? Yeah. No, the new one.

Oh, really?

Yeah, the old one. There was too. I forgot. So, yeah, it was in the new one.

I remember it was in the old one.

So I was like, whoops. The second one was I actually had some kids from the youth group, some dudes over, and I was looking through my collection and I went, dude, have you seen Shutter Island? It's awesome, right? So we started watching it, Completely forgot. There's a scene where the camera slowly pans by a group of naked dudes just, you know, hanging out. And I went, oh my gosh, guys, I had a 13 year old in the room. And I was like, so we've seen these before. You have them. It's okay.

There's a point for your wife's opinion on this, I think.

I was not there and I was

gonna push back a little bit too. Just, just as a devil's advocate, like, one of the most influential things that I have heard, and it applies to pretty much all of Christianity too, is that somebody who is an FBI agent, who is there to decipher whether something is counterfeit, doesn't study counterfeits. They study the real thing. And so the exposing, on my terms, the things to our kids may not be the right approach. And I'm not saying that, I'm not saying this is how I approach it, but I'm saying, like, it may not be the right approach because really, if we teach them the truth and who the truth is, when they see that stuff that's not right, they will immediately know it.

Yep.

Yeah, it's part of the conversation. But I also, I mean, I think it's good to have a healthy mix of really great material in there. So I, I, they see me enjoy very Christian material all the time, you know. Well, I had, so there was a streaming service that I had for a period of time called Pure Flix. You guys heard of it? Yeah, I had it until I watched everything I wanted to watch on it. And it did not take as long as I thought, but. And then after a while I was like, I've seen this all twice, so. And then I got rid of it because I was like, I'm paying a lot of money. And then their prices lowered and they never lowered my price. I was paying two. Anyway, it doesn't matter. So. But they'll see me watch like, movies with Jesus and different things all the time. And I get really excited to watch it. And I got really excited that, like, some of my kids, like a couple of my kids got really into watching, like, the Chosen with us. I'm like, great, let's watch this together and have great conversations. And my other son got really into watching. We watched the first season of David, the one from on Amazon Prime. And I'm really mad that the second season needs me to have some kind of other streaming service that I don't want to pay for. And so that was irritating because I was so excited when I was like, oh, second season's out. And I grabbed him and I was like, we're gonna watch it. And then I wanted to go into it, and I was like, you can't, unless you want to give us money. And I was like, I don't mind. This is ruining the whole thing. But, like, trying to make it a habit where they not only see that I enjoy this stuff, of course, this is part of the obsession part I said earlier, but also, like, I want to invite them into it and have the conversations and. And show them, you know, the. What this looks like on top of all the other stuff that they watch, and then also give them alternatives. Like, if I know, for instance, my kids get out, got into watching anime. My boys especially.

I'm sorry.

Yeah, well. And not all of it's bad, but, like, some of it I thought was kind of strange. But then I was like, I know one that I really enjoy. And so I showed him it. It was called Initial D, and it was about racing in Japan. And so I sat down with my son, and I was like, check this out. And he was like, that's awesome. And I was like, great. Cool to kind of take an interest in the things that they're looking in, but to make sure that you're showing them things that don't require certain elements in order for it to be good.

So how does throw it at you? We'll throw you what? How does, like, you know the scripture of, you know, whatever is pure, whatever is holy, whatever is beautiful. Like, focus on these things, right? Don't focus on all these other things and pollute your mind, because whatever goes in is gonna eventually come out, right? So you throw too much garbage in, and garbage just gonna start coming in. Remember the old band Petra? You ever listen to Petra?

Yeah, they had that Striper was better, but.

But they had a song called Computer Brain. Same thing. Put garbage in, garbage comes out, right? So I guess kind of how do we see the parallel between controlled exposure versus just focus on the holy and the pure? Because when you see something that's evil, you'll invertly react. I don't know if I'm asking the question correctly. Like, I don't know.

I mean, I'll just start by saying. I'm not saying that I don't, you know, show my kids stuff. Like, you know, I. My kid. Like I said, I let her watch the Old Guard with me. Yeah, it's a pretty rough movie.

But you have listeners out there who are going, no, no, no, we should be holding our kids back.

I just want them to know that I'm not saying that just because I think this might be actually the better route, that I'm actually doing it. I'm not. I don't want to misrepresent who I am, though.

I think just listening to your question and thinking about it for a moment, I think we've talked about discussing the bad.

Yep.

I think you discuss the bad, but you elevate and celebrate the good. You know, I mean, like, if you obsess the bad, yes, they're going to obsess the bad, but if you talk about the bad, but then you elevate and celebrate the good and that's it with everything, including their behavior. Like, we. That's one of the things that is so easy to do when you have kids, is to constantly see all the things they're doing wrong and constantly be on them for the wrong things.

Sure.

And then all they think about is, I'm doing all these wrong things. And then. But if you're constantly looking for good things that you can bring to the forefront, go, this is amazing. This is great. I'm. This is. I'm so proud of this and this and this. Elevate as much good as you can so that they don't just constantly go down here.

No, that's good.

So I 100% agree with that. I think that that shoots your own thoughts in the foot. By exposing. Because you're exposing your kids to the bad, you are intentionally exposing your kids to. To the bad. And that. I don't know that that's necessarily a good thing.

You say intentionally, like, I'm sitting there going, you know what?

I want to show my parents, hey, let's watch this movie. And you know, there's stuff in it that they shouldn't really consume that you shouldn't consume oftentimes. And I'm not just saying you, but I'm saying, like, we've all Admitted to that, right? Like, sure. What I'm saying is, like, if it's the bad, we probably shouldn't be exposing our children to it.

Sure, yeah.

But. Okay, so let's pull the wool over their eyes and then watch what happens when they get exposed to it outside of us.

And that's the.

We can talk about it, but it doesn't mean we have to show them it.

Oh, no, no, no, no. I'm not in a hurry to show my kids certain things, but there's certain things that, like, if they're like, everybody's been watching this movie. They told me so good. So good. And I'm like, no, not yet. And then finally they're like, alright, well, I'm gonna sit down there and we're gonna talk about it as it's gonna happen. Because, you know, there comes a point where I realized that if I hold back, withhold it long enough, they're just gonna do it without me.

Sure. Like, my daughter started watching Stranger Things on her own. Right. And then initially I had no interest in it. I got four or five episodes in and gave up. And then. But then finding out that she was watching it and then starting to see how big of a trend it was becoming, I was like, I need to know what she's watching. So I just got curious for her benefit. And then probably then I got hooked about. See, midway through season two, then it was her and me. We just started watching this thing. Then they started the story arc with the. With Will becoming the way he was. And I was like, we both kind of looked at each other, like, really? This is so unlike to your point. It's so unnecessary. It did nothing for the storyline, especially

not as much time they spent on it.

100%.

They were bringing that character arc to light. And you're like, okay, here it comes.

Yeah.

But then.

But they didn't even, like, actually bring it to light until the last season. And it was like the last few episodes. And it's like you just spent 10 minutes on something in the very last season of your show that nobody has cared about this whole time.

Exactly. And they made it a big deal.

And you just wasted our time with this. And. And it was like. It was. It was a dumb. It wasn't even done well. If you're gonna do something, do it well.

Right?

But, like, I didn't.

I. I never saw any of it, so Stranger Things.

I ended up watching that because my kids wanted to watch it. Like, I was like, all right, well, we're gonna watch it together. Because I wanted to make sure there wasn't anything that I have to go and then go, okay, that's not cool,

but I'm a D and D nerd, so.

Yeah, that's for you.

It's.

It was a given, but, like, I don't know.

Yeah. Any other questions? Yeah, sorry, I didn't mean to cut you off.

Yes. Because we are running. We are running close, so how do we. And this is just. Let's. Let's keep this one quick. Right?

Okay.

This is gonna be hard, but let's keep this quick. How do we balance discipline and grace? Tossing that one at you. Let's do this.

How do we. Dallas, how do we dance? Discipline and grace, Dallas.

Discipline and base.

Well, okay, so I'll start instead of just throwing you under the bus right off the bat. So the way that I've always done it is what we found that works for our daughter, or did. She doesn't really need it as much anymore was swats. When we swatted our kid. Right. And was one of those things that whenever she would get in trouble, I'd be like, go to your room, and I'll be in there in a minute. So I could calm down. So I made sure that I, A, didn't swat her out of anger. Right.

Yeah.

But B, so that whenever I came in there, hopefully she had time to cool down. Well, that was hardly ever the case, but it would be all right. You're getting a swat, Submit to it. And then she would throw a fit. I would count to three. That's two swats.

Yep.

And then she would throw a fit, and I count to three, and that's three swats. Right. So. But whenever she finally did submit, I would always lessen the amount of swats.

Yep.

So that is one way. Like that I. And I was the only one that. That did the swats, really. I mean, my wife didn't. That was left to me, so.

But the important part was, as soon as it was over, was there a hug and a. I hope you. Oh, yeah.

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Because that's the most critical.

All of that stuff. All of that stuff was in there too.

So.

Yeah, it was. It was. There was less swats. Right. I showed her mercy and then the I love you and a hug. But I also refused the hug until after she submitted to the swats. So smart. Now, she never really pulled the I love you during the throwing a fit, but she did always try to hug. I was like, not until you submit. So. So that's one way that I have done that.

Right.

That balance, that, that discipline and grace in it.

So grace versus discipline, That's a tough

one for me because I struggled with disciplining only because I struggled to find the discipline method that worked. And that wasn't me yelling because I didn't want to be the parent that yelled and then ended up being the parent that yelled.

So

Dave actually has been incredible at bringing conversation into correction for discipline purposes. And I think my way of being gracious towards my kids is allowing him to take the lead in situations like that. Because I don't want to fly off the handle and go to a place that I shouldn't go and then show my kids a way to parent that I wouldn't. That I didn't want to be.

Or how.

Or does that make sense?

Yeah.

Cause there's. I think there's a. Like for instance, Our son is 12, which means he doesn't like cleaning his room. We actually found out at one point, hey, go put your clothes away. And then he says, I can't find my pants. A couple days later, come to find his dresser is in his closet and there's a little bit of space on either side. So he took the basket, dumped it on the side of the dresser, and that's where all of his clothes lived. And so it was like, well, they're right here. You just didn't put them away. So there is a. The Grace says to me, he's a 12 year old boy, he's gonna do this until he's 30 when he finally starts caring about folding his clothes. But then there's also a, you live in my house. And part of what we do is we put our clothes away. So there is, there is the, the discipline of, you will do this. But I also understand that I'm gonna have to keep reminding you because you're a 12 year old boy and even I have to be reminded to take out the trash cans. And it happens every single week. Right. So there's grace and discipline. That's my take.

Yeah. I agree that the conversation has to be a part of everything that we do. I think that keeping your anger at bay is important. That was a hard thing for me because when I think about how I was disciplined as a kid, I remember the anger more than I remember anything else. Amen. And so that was something that was really hard for me and my wife has helped me to work through for a long time. And so I'm still working through it, but outside of that. Yeah. So, yeah, the grace part, like definitely understanding that first off, I'm a flawed adult and they're not adults. And it's funny how we sometimes expect them to act like adults when they're not. And they don't have the capacity, don't have the ability to think that way to ration like we do. They don't have it. And so the conversation is so vital so that they can understand why something needs to be a certain way, why, you know, something can't happen, should happen, all that stuff. And so without it, I think you're gonna. You just lead them just with the. It's like them trying to figure out math problems from themselves. For me, for instance, I knew that this, plus this equal to butt whooping when I was growing up versus them when they were like, I just got a whole bunch of information. Now I'm trying to put the math together.

Yeah.

Whereas if we can talk through it and go, okay, well, this is. This is what's going on. Okay. This is what you did. This is what you didn't do. This is how you reacted. This is how maybe even I reacted at the time. And let's talk through what we got. And then, you know, and I love what you said earlier about sometimes being willing to admit when like, hey, I made a mistake. I want to say sorry, because I

will do that a lot when. Even when I'm bringing correction, but trying not to do that in a way to mask the discipline, but to be accountable for my actions and show that accountability for your actions is so extremely important.

That is something I wanted to bring to light, I had as a question, but I think just serves better as a statement. And that's like, as parents, we need to set the example for praying. Right. They need to be seeing us pray. They need to see us study our word. They need to see that. But also they need to see us repent, and they need to see us admit when we are wrong, especially whenever it's towards them. And they need to see what that repentance and reconciliation like, looks like. It's very important because oftentimes as adults, we haven't. We haven't really had that example given to us. And we do it very poorly or we look at it with a misconstrued mentality. It's a misconception of what repentance and reconciliation is. And so as Christian parents, I feel like it's one of the. Those imperative things that we set that example by showing our kids what that stuff looks like. So. Right, go ahead.

You have more questions.

I do. I have.

You're the host. You go.

I have one more big question, one more big question that everybody's gonna want to weigh in on. This one, this one's the Whopper. So what role should the church play in raising our kids?

Okay, and that's interesting because earlier the last couple days, I was doing some research on kind of like the. The biggest arguments people have against Christian parenting. And one, basically, a lot of people believe that children should decide their beliefs later in life and they don't need to worry. Or a lot of people worry that Christian parenting forces religion on a child before they have the ability to think for themselves. And I found this article where this woman clearly, clearly has had some issues growing up in the church that she needs to get resolved. But a lot of it's centered around your children as they're brought up. Basically, the church glorifies shutting up and sitting in the corner. And obedience is the most important thing. And so by the time you become an adult, you're so, you're so bludgeoned with. You have to obey at all costs. You're not allowed to ask questions. You're not allowed to have your own opinion. You have to do what you're told. And so her conclusion was, Christian parenting is not okay because you're not allowing them their own ability, their own voice, their own line of thinking. You're forcing them to be force fed. Submission and, you know, obedience, which, obedience to the mission is okay. Right?

But that is absolute bull stuff, right? And here's why. Here's why. Because you're trying to look at religion, you're trying to look at these beliefs from it from a perspective, as in downplaying them. Here's the reality. Here's the Christian parenting. This is. I'm going to give you the absolute truth for those who are Christian parents who really do follow Christ.

Yes, sir.

This is the most important thing in our life. This is the most important thing for eternity. This is the most important way that we can love another person. You've heard it said, when it comes to evangelizing, how much would you have to hate someone to not tell them the gospel?

Correct.

Well, how much would you have to hate your children to not start them on the right path as early as possible? That is ridiculous. Ridiculous. The idea of saying, well, no, they should be able to decide, why would you hide the most important thing in the world to your children if you honestly believe it with all your heart and all your soul? If this is something you actually have dedicated yourself to the Lord, why in the world Would you do anything else than to raise them up with Christian values? Learning about Christ, that is the most important thing that you can do.

We lit up fire. I like it.

Yeah, well, because it's absolutely true.

It is. The crazy part is her credentials. The person who wrote this thing says she's the worship director at her church.

This person needs a Dawkin too.

So. Okay, sorry, but that's one angle for this question.

So repeat the question.

And then I knew I was gonna get fired up about something.

So what role should the, should, what role should the church play in raising our kids?

What role should the church play? The church, I believe it should be as a assistant. Like I said, if Christ is first in our life, then we put it first in our kids lives. And then church is there to assist us and help us go further and encourage us and encourage our children and to support our walk with Christ with them.

I would, I would add. And discipline our kids. Yeah, I think they're there to help discipline our kids and because we're also here to discipline each other.

Well, I think that, you know, it's important like we as adults, you want to be involved in the teaching of the Bible and the stories and like there's a lot of parents that treat Sunday school or youth group as a kid sitting service or just another school. And they, and there's plenty of parents, plenty of parents that want no involvement in their kids learning, teaching. That's the school's job. That's the church's job. And it's like, well, no, if this really is important to you, this should be your job. And then the church is there to help you, to help them find the answers, to reinforce the things that you're teaching them, to give them new things to talk about in which you can talk to them with too.

Yes sir. You already know what you got.

I did. Because I feel just like you said, there are assistants and not. But. And there are people with other people within the church that can speak into our children's lives in ways that we can't. So discipleship and different perspectives. Now sometimes different perspectives can come in and cause some friction or you know, we need to bring correction into that. But they're never going to understand how to answer questions for themselves if they don't see others perspectives and with open lines of communication that you create with your children and them, allowing them to ask you questions, to put them in the right path. So the church is there for relationship discipleship and to help you guide your kids and, and with the ones that you have chosen to trust also bring in discipline.

So there's. When it comes to.

Can I go to you here in just a second? I just want to tail in. Hold your thought. And also allow the discipline to stick for those ones that you've trusted to allow that, Allow that discipline to actually matter. Because, I mean, I've, I, I've been through the. Oh, I thought, I, I thought I had that authority and apparently I didn't when I was a youth pastor. And so there was some major fallout over that. And so with that, like allow that to stick with your kids and don't. I mean, as long as it's. Obviously makes sense.

Right, but.

But let it stick. And it's okay for, for your kids to learn discipline from other people too?

Sure, absolutely. Well, and I believe, I mean, we have to teach our children not just the rules of our home, but that we need that they are supposed to and should respect the rules of another person's home when they go to it. So discipline in that home may look different than the discipline in ours. It's just that we need to obviously be mindful of where we are sending our children, where they are, so that they're not in a tyrannical situation, but in alignment with what we would choose as discipline as well. But their role may be different, their standard may be different. And teaching that we have to respect and honor that. And if there's something that's problematic that comes up with that, then that's for them to share with us.

It makes you think of your brother in law. My brother in law, Steve, and my son will do something and I will turn around and say, do you think Uncle Steve would allow this? And he'll go, no, he would hurt me. Like, just not probably.

He wouldn't actually hurt our son.

But it's just one of those.

To bring that to the table.

He's one of those guys that will turn around and look at you and you'll stop like, Sorry.

Even as an adult.

Even as an adult. But you've been holding onto your thought.

Sorry.

Well, just two. So. A couple. So first thing.

So can I.

Just kidding.

Just kidding. Go, go, go.

Just take a sip right there.

All right, stop. Brought to you by Buc ee's.

Yeah. So, okay, a couple things. Let me tell you the hardest thing when it comes to youth ministry that I've, especially in this area, is the fact that we are battling home lives. And some of these kids, like, you know, if, if it's sad that some of the kids are finding Christ before their parents, you know, and sometimes, yeah, we hope that maybe we can reach their parents through them, but what a different world it would have been, you know what I mean? And so we're working so hard to try to help get some things, instilled some truths instilled in some of these kids. And then they got to take them home to sometimes unbelieving parents, sometimes parents that aren't going to reinforce them. And that makes the job that much harder. And it's just, man, you know, like I said, that's why when you go to like, should we be raising them? Absolutely, yeah, that's important. The other thing I wanted to bring up is that you mentioned doubts very briefly, but I want to talk about that. I think that we should be encouraging our kids to talk about their doubts. I think they should be wanting to bring them to, if they're not bringing them to us, bring them to another person in the church and to know that it is healthy and okay for them to have doubts. And I teach my students, I said, doubts, there's a difference. I said, it's good to have doubts. When you take them to the Lord and you want to go explore them. Let God reinforce and strengthen your faith by showing you how to work through your doubts. But if you take them and you hide them right, then they become the fester and they drive a wedge between you and Him. I said, and that's when a doubt is unhealthy. I said, if you're doing that, it's unhealthy. But if you're willing to talk about them, explore them, have people come alongside you and go. I said, I love when kids bring me doubts. I'm like, alright, let's talk about this. But if you're doing that, then doubt is a fantastic thing because it can be the very thing that helps strengthen your faith into a place that's never been before.

Well, and it's important to work that out. Absolutely, it's important to work that out. Because if you don't, then that could be a reason God doesn't answer one of your prayers. Because you're supposed to come to him without doubt and know that he's gonna take care of it. And so we have to work that out. So it's very important that our kids know that.

But we can't be the kind of people that give the kids impression that a doubt is an evil thing.

Sure, exactly.

You know, that condemn a children because they're like, I don't know if I believe. What do you mean? You don't believe. That's terrible. You don't. You know, that would be the wrong approach.

Well, why?

What is it about that? You know. Okay, well, let's look at that. Well, you know, I love it when my kids bring anything to me about the Bible and want to discuss it. I was thrilled that my daughter found this video of this woman who was wrong, by the way. But, like, she was. She was watching this video and this woman's view on heaven and hell and all this stuff. And I. I mean, it was bad. And I was. She's like, what's up? No, no, actually, it wasn't. And. But she sent it to me. She said, what's up with this? And I said, okay, I'd love to talk to you about this in person, but right off the bat, this. She said, that's not a thing. And then I was like, but I'm. And then as soon as she and I got together, that's what we talked about and was like, okay, so let's get into this. This is. What does this look like? What does. You know, this is what you should expect, and it's great to have that. Where it's like, well, what about this? Well, what about this? And the thing is, if you're not willing to engage and go into those doubts, whether you have the answers or not, just because I'm a pastor with all these tools in my toolbox and all this training and such doesn't mean I can answer every single question without a little research. You may not feel as equipped as maybe I am, but that doesn't mean you can't go and ask someone and research it. You do it with them.

But there's. And there's also. There also needs to be a symbiotic relationship. So recently we had a situation where there was a young man who was close to me, and I wound up finding this story he had written recently and just something he made up. And in the story was talking about how there are days when he feels like I don't want to be here anymore. Days when he thinks that I'd rather be dead and things like that. And so I remember bringing it to him saying, is this real? It was like, is this really how you feel? And so he kind of gap. Sometimes that's how I feel. Well, I'm close enough to the young gentleman. He's gonna hear some of what I have to say. But it's kind of partially like, well, we know each other so well. I understand this is just what you have to say. So I wound up going to our youth pastor, and I pulled him aside and I said, this is what I just found. He's in your youth group. I need your help. And he said, 100%, like, I'm absolutely with you on that. So the symbionic relationship they're so far apparent can go. But then we need the help of the third party.

Well, I'll tell you what. I have students who reach out to me in some interesting times, even past students. I have students that have graduated and moved away from my direct ministry, but they know that they can still hit me up and talk to about. In fact, in the past couple weeks, I've had two different. Of my past students hit me up and talk about some of the stresses they're going through. Through one of them, I talked on the phone. I think she was crying the entire time, you know, and the other one, it was mainly text messages. But, like, they're. They're going through real things. And, you know, I can think is, look, man, Lord, use me number one. But, like, you know what? I must have done something right to the fact that they feel comfortable going, hey, I need help with this. And perfectly fine. I know you may not be in my direct ministry anymore, but let's help. And it's important to be able to be those people to help with this, you know, and her parents know me and stuff like that, but, like, it's amazing. And either of you are watching, and I know one of you sometimes does. I love you so much, and you're doing good. Keep going. But, you know, it's a great thing to be able to support what the parents are doing, you know, because you're right, I have a window into their lives, and that's why it's challenging for my kids. Like I brought it up earlier, I have a window in their lives that their parents don't have sometimes because, you know, it's mom and dad. Whereas, like, they come out, well, Pastor Matt, you know, this thing's going on. I've had kids talk to me about their parents and what they think is fair or not. And, you know, I think I've had kids talking to me about what's going on in their school that they're not going to talk about things that they've done that they're not going to talk about with anyone else. And I get a chance to sit down and talk real with them.

Yep.

You know, and I. And I told some of the students, they're, like, hesitant. I'm like, look, if it's not life threatening, or I think you're in danger or someone else is in danger, or the following rules are. Okay, then it's between you and me.

Yeah.

You know, I mean, like, this isn't something I have to run because I think you're going to just talk to my parents about everything I say. If it doesn't follow these things, I don't have to.

Yep.

But if it does, then I'm going to.

Yep.

You know what I mean?

Because of how much I love you.

Yeah. And I said, but that's to keep you safe.

Yep.

You know, and that's, you know, and that's not being a tattletale, you know, but as long as you establish these things, it can be amazing how you can help.

Yeah.

You know, and, you know, I've had kids where mom and dad like, well, how are they doing? Well, you know, they're doing pretty good. I said they're a little worried about some things, but we're working through it. I said, but you know what, Some things you could encourage on this, this and this.

Yeah.

And, you know, and. Or what. What are you studying? Love to talk about that. Great. Here's what we're studying. And, you know, here's some cool things you can talk to them about that with. And, you know, if you have any questions, hit me up, you know, whatever.

So for final thoughts today, I thought we'd change it up just a little bit and give a word of encouragement to people who are struggling with this question. All right, what. So what advice, essentially, would you give more? Start with Matt. Put him in the hot seat. What advice would you give to a parent whose child walks away from their faith? A piece of encouragement.

Never stop praying. And then you can't force them, but you can love them. If we're going to do anything, show them the love of Christ. If we're going to try to get them back, do it by living out your faith in a way that's not pushing it on them, but showing them what it looks like. Real time. Keep inviting, but not all the. Like, keep the invitation open from time to time. Hey, there's this going on. There's this going on, but not in a pestering way. You don't want to slam that door shut. They might have opened it and walked through it, but don't lock that. And there's so many ways that we can. And all of them are too harsh. You need to be able to love them and pray for them. And, you know, depending on their situation is going to change how I Say some more direct things, but that's on a general sense without knowing any other details. I mean, yeah, you know, do you ever give up on them? Absolutely not. But there's the things you can do and the biggest things. Pray always. I have friends. I do that for family. I do that for. Pray for them all the time. Send out invitations, love them like Jesus loved them. Show them what it's like to have God in your life. And that is your ultimate way back in

either one of you.

I'll go.

Good.

I would say on top of that just reminds them consistently that their value hasn't changed because no matter what, they're still your child and God loves them the same. So always remind them that they're valued and they're loved by you specifically and that their value didn't decrease because of their choice. And to add to the prayer, specific prayer, that others would come into their lives from a new perspective that are believing that can encourage their. Their hopeful return to the faith.

Yeah, that's really good.

That's really good.

What was the thing your dad used to always hate when you're talking about?

He said a lot of things.

Well, I know, talking about like your value. Right.

Oh, you are blessed and highly favored. Yeah, he would say that was what. That's. That was. He said that to every single one of us every time he saw us and our kids too.

Yep. So we knew where we stood with. With her dad for sure. My. My would say. I would say kind of going back to what I said at the beginning is your, your. Your kids are watching three or they're listening to 3% of what you say and watching 97% of what you do. And there's a. I don't remember if it's actually in scripture or if it's something just referencing scripture but basically saying point people to Jesus and if necessary, you. Your words. Right. And so remain consistent. If people can see if your kids are seeing that God matters to you, that your spouse matters to you, that they matter to you in your physical actions even. Because we've got. We live in a society right now where there's a lot of people who living life by a checklist. I'm going to get all these things done so I can then spend time with you. Right. And so what I've found, one of the most powerful things that I've been able to uncover is good example. Few weeks ago, I was at home and I was working on estimates. I'm a salesman, so I was working on estimates at home. My daughter's doing homeschool. And she came and sat down and said, well, I'm done with homeschool. And she's playing on her phone. And I looked at the clock. It's 1:30 in the afternoon. And I said, are you doing anything? And she said, nope. So I closed my laptop and I said, you want to go get ice cream? And then on the drive there, I'm explaining when I get back, I have a lot more work to do, basically, but, like, I'm carving this 25 minutes out. So this is all you, like, 100%. Then we got back and we split, and it was totally fine, but we got too many people who think I have to get all these things done so that I can then do this. And if you can find a way to integrate these conversations, find the pockets of time with.

With on that. On that. Bluey comes to mind. Right? Because when I first started watching Bluey, I was like, man, I'm a terrible dad.

And then.

And then finally, like, I don't know if it was through my wife or something, I realized, like, that is 15 minutes of their day.

Yeah.

It. They still work. They still do all the other things. Like, that's 15 minutes of their time.

Yeah. So, like.

So, yeah, I mean, on that. That's. That's super important. That it's not necessarily the amount of time, but the quality in which you get. And so we are all busy, right? It's a busy world right now. And sometimes we do need to slow down. Like next week. Well, this week, I guess, if. When it comes out anyways, we're going camping and things are gonna slow down, you know, and it'll be great. But we live in a busy world, and so giving. Giving our kids quality is important, regardless of where they are in their faith.

Yep.

Right. But my piece of encouragement would be that for all you parents out there with adult children, nothing we said is any different. You are always your child's parent.

Yes, sir.

Always.

Amen.

So everything we've talked about today, like, it's ongoing. It may shift, it may adjust slightly. They may not be in school anymore, but they may be in school of hard knocks, you know, so you are always your child's parent. And so just keep that in mind. All of this applies to you guys too.

And you didn't miss the boat. You can start now. You may have to dig yourself out of a little bit of a hole. It may take a little time, but don't go, oh, shoot, they're 18. I missed the boat. I guess I'M done.

No. Yeah.

We gotta start sometime. Start now. Right?

Be an encourager is another thing. Encourage them through their struggles, regardless of where they stand.

Yeah. Yep.

That's two thoughts.

So today, if you haven't already, go to Eventbrite and sign up for our live event, April 24. It's the truth Response Live. We're gonna be here in person. We're gonna have lots of fun. There's gonna be some really good finger foods. It's gonna be amazing.

Tickets are free, but you do have to get tickets. Tickets.

Yeah, tickets are free.

Off the hook.

Off the hook.

Yeah. Invite people. It's not for people who like podcasts. It's for everybody. It's just a. An open conversation that we're gonna end up having. So. Okay. And then I want. I just want to send you guys off with this. Are you discipling your kids more than the Internet is? I want you guys to think about that as you. As you go about your week. Who's discipling your kids more, you or the Internet? That applies to all of you. So thanks for tuning into this week, guys. Don't forget the likes and the subscribes and all that stuff. Thanks for all the love that you guys have been pouring out to us and God bless.

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