Hi, everyone.

Welcome back to another Summer Toolkit episode.

And today I am bringing you a really fabulous conversation I had with a lovely woman back on one of my workshops a few years ago.

Now, her name is Debbie Amichai and we are talking about our relationships.

We're talking about our sexual relationships.

I know that these are powerful, content conversations full of insightful, practical guidance.

These moments in the conversation which are needed to be pulled out so we can just hear it and understand it.

Wherever we are in our life right now, whether we're in a relationship, we're not in a relationship.

It's really amazing to have these opportunities to reflect and to process and to move through this healing where we have better understanding and better awareness through this new ADHD lens.

Now, Debbie is a therapist and she's a sexual relationship Advisor with over 25 years experience.

And Debbie also frequently supports couples where one or both partners have ADHD and has discovered that most people are unaware of how their neurodivergence impacts their relationship.

So we're going to talk about how ADHD can shape our sexuality and why feeling safe and secure and emotionally connected is key to desire with adhd.

I'm also going to look at how societal pressures can interfere with relaxation and connection and hopefully get some practical tips for using sensory tools like lighting, textures and scent to calm our very busy minds.

So I think this will be a really helpful episode for so many of us.

Here it is.

I think women's sexuality isn't understood very well.

Only beginning to be understood.

All the research was up to about 10 years ago was the idea that sort of we, we studied men and women as slightly, they're built differently but basically it's all the same.

And women's sexuality is much more complicated than men's sexuality.

And then women's sexuality with the ADHD component on top of it is going to really complicate matters.

And I think that also because people, well, we're talking about women today, women with ADHD or everyone with adhd is very strong on self criticism and spends a lot of their time feeling inadequate.

That's going to play out sexually as well.

So we've got a lot of different components here and I think they, they need to be brought together and they need to be understood.

I think women also are very quick to give up on their sexuality.

There's a, there's a book called the Men on My Couch and she says, go.

Men on the whole don't go to doctors, but if they do, it's usually for sexual issues.

And women will start being sexual, say, oh, oh, that's just not for me.

And then they'll sort of manage for the rest of their lives.

They won't see that, you know, they deserve to have a good, sexy life.

And I think that's, that's also an important point.

Yeah, Wow.

I can totally see that.

I mean, obviously sexual relationships with neurodiversity without can be very complex and complicated.

And then we've got the layers of our relationships, how long we've been together, children, finances, mental health, all of those things.

And then we have adhd, which adds a massive strain to relationships and marriages.

I mean, I've seen it personally and I've seen it in clients.

It is that it often tips the relationship over, doesn't it?

Absolutely.

And that's also going to play out in the sexual field because if you are, let's say you're a woman with adhd, which is what we're talking about.

But we can also talk about women partners of adhd.

Men, if you're a woman with ADHD and you feel that you're being criticized a lot by your partner, that you're not managing the house or the place is a mess, or you didn't write a thank you letter to his mother, all the other things that are happening, then you are much less likely to actually want to have sex with him.

And he might want to, he's going to want to have sex as a way of getting closer to you because that's how men operate.

But women only really, if they want to have sex.

And that's another question.

In a minute we're going to be talking about they will only want to have sex if they're feeling happy and secure in the relationship.

So you've got a situation where she.

Where because of the strain of the adhd, that part is going to come, come down.

It's going to fall.

Now, on the other hand, we do know that, you know, we know the two main types of adhd.

We've got the active type and the more passive type, which we now sort of call ADHD with the H in brackets, so that it's sort of a continuum.

People who are more of the active type will pro.

May well want a lot more sex because it calms them down.

It's a way of soothing the brain.

It kind of, it fits into arguing or alcohol or whatever else you use to soothe your brain.

And sex is a very good one.

So we do find that there are those people, especially men, but also women.

I spoke to one this morning I mean, that does happen.

On the other hand, most of the women that I'm talking to are women who have the more passive kind.

They're more the.

What used to be called add.

And when you look at the literature on this, generally it's couples with ADD aren't having sex at all or very little.

Now, again, we don't want to overdo this.

We know that in the world, rates of sex or intercourse are falling everywhere because people are busier and they're also.

We're going to get there as well.

There's, you know, they're on the Internet, people are busy shopping at midnight or whatever they're doing.

And there is a feeling, I think now a sort of have it all feeling, which people with ADHD can really relate to that, you know, you can fit in more in a day than you actually can.

So there's a lot of couples who I meet or who are, you know, dropping into bed at sort of midnight and actually thinking, well, one of them is thinking, oh, we could have sex, and the other one thinking, like, we could have got up in the morning.

So, I mean, you can't really expect to have an active sexual life if you're going to drop it to bed at the last minute and sort of hit the pillow and go to sleep.

So it's something we're going to be talking about, about what you actually need to do in this hectic life that we're living if you decide that it's a priority.

You know, how do we get women with add, ADHD to actually go to bed?

Because that's a major issue for a lot of us.

And I actually, in the, in the book that I'm writing, I have a character and I ask her, if you were to go to bed early, what would you miss out on?

And she comes up with this terrifically long list.

And for a lot of us with add, the quiet of the night is when we feel at our best and everyone's asleep and our brain is working and we're focused for the first time that day.

So why on earth would we want to stop it?

That's one very good reason not to go to bed.

Another reason not to go to bed is that we, we've made ourselves this humongous list because people with add, it's very hard for them to understand how much you can fit in a day.

They tend to overestimate by a lot.

So you've made yourself this 25, 35 item list and you haven't completed it, so you can't justify going to bed because you're not, you're going to wake up to this list again.

So you, you keep going.

Another reason is I think the thing that we find with adhd, the two time zones, the now and not now.

So you'll say, I'm coming up in five minutes, either to your partner or to yourself.

And once you've said another five minutes, it's somewhere out there in the future.

So that could be another 10 minutes, 15, two hours, it could be anything.

And then the time passes.

And another reason is this obvious screen thing.

I mean, going to bed is pretty boring for the ADHD brain that wants to feel important and that wants a dopamine hit.

Going through the motions of going to bed is not going to set your brain alight.

So one of the, one of the things we do is we find something that's sort of important but not really important to do.

So we'll check our emails or we'll check our WhatsApps and then you have to reply to the WhatsApp and then they'll reply to you or you'll just say, you know what, this is the moment I can buy this online.

And when you're buying this, you may as well buy that it goes on and on and on.

Or you, you know, you may.

Well, it's already midnight and it would be.

Or one in the morning and it's, it's a really good time to talk to my cousin in California because usually I forget and now it's one in the morning and it's early for her and what a great time.

So your sex life is anyway going to come down because it's just, just getting yourself to bed is a big one.

And there's a somebody who I recommend a lot.

He died recently.

He was a wonderful sex and marriage therapist, one of the first people who was both.

He's called David Snatch, which is very hard to.

It's S C H N A R C H. You can find him on YouTube and he's very into couples trying to go to bed at the same time.

And that's actually a question I ask couples.

I say, do you, do you go to bed at the same time?

And usually the answer's no.

And then one of the things we talk about is what would it be like if you did, which I told you this list of all the things you'd lose out on.

But maybe again, you have the ADHD black and white thinking.

So what you actually want to do with this couple is say, well, supposing you did it twice a week or once a week, how would it be to go to bed together once a week or twice a week or how would it be to go to bed for a while and you know that you can always get up later if you need to and do whatever it is you want to do.

That's a very big one.

So really we're starting off with this idea that even getting to bed is, is a difficult one.

What you're saying resonates so much with me and, and I really, I see that across like my friends ADHD and not or not that we are just so frazzled as women that like you say when the kids are in bed or when the house is quiet or we're not being asked to do things, we're not being pulled like the last thing we want is someone else pulling at us.

Just want to be left alone.

Absolutely.

Also the add autonomy, right?

People with ADHD have a high need for autonomy.

So don't tell me when to go to bed.

That's what my parents did.

And now I am a grown up and I can do what I like, which also is part of it.

But yeah, absolutely.

You know, this is my time and it's actually my time to be on, on, on my phone.

I didn't have time all day to be on my phone.

So don't start telling me to do screen hygiene or something annoying like that when I've hardly had a minute to myself all day.

So you know, it can be very, very annoying.

And my husband, he's very regimented.

At 10 o' clock he goes to.

Bed, gets up and goes to bed.

He turns the light off and within five minutes he's in bed.

I fast, I scroll, I get distracted, I'll go upstairs, I'll start plucking, I'll start preening all my lotions, my patients.

And by the time I get into bed, because this is like my, my settling down time, my unwinding time.

And I'm kind of like quite happy sometimes just because I want to adjust one that time because my whole day is back to back, back to back then children and because I don't want to be modeling to them and that I'm on my phone the whole time.

So I'm like trying to be really conscious to not have my phone.

But actually all I want to do is like numb out and just sit.

And just be left.

I've made dinner, I've tidied up, I've put the wash on like it's never ending.

It's incessant and like you say that autonomy, I don't want someone to tell me it's time to go to bed.

Absolutely.

And also, I think, I think sometimes, not always that the him getting up and going to bed, you sometimes feel like, how dare you leave me?

Well, if you're going to leave me, I'm going to do whatever I like.

And that's one of them.

There's also, you know, there's a joke, but it's like it doesn't completely fit add, but it does a bit where, you know, the man says, I'm going to bed, and off he goes.

And the woman says, I'm going to bed too.

And she tidies the kitchen and she puts things away and she checks on the email like, you know, that's her going to bed.

It's just a different Rachel.

Yeah.

And that's that.

It's so validating to hear because for.

Us to get into bed and then.

Like, switch the switch and like, try and like, have some, like, sexual energy and everything, it's very difficult because I'm still thinking and I'm still unwinding and I'm still.

And it doesn't come naturally to me to have that switch.

Whereas men physiologically can just.

I'm in bed.

You know, the first stage is actually getting us to bed and then the second stage is what happens when we go to bed.

And here we have a sort of classic, in my head, a classic combination of women's sexuality that isn't understood, plus ADHD that makes it much more complicated.

So basically, men, it's in their body.

You touch them in the right place and bingo, they want sex.

Women, the biggest sexual organ for the woman is her brain.

So it's literally, for women, it takes a lot more time to get turned on and it's much more effort and it means a lot of blocking other things out because it's in your brain, not your body.

So the first problem, the first thing for women needs to be a decision that they're going to have sex.

And again, like you said, on the whole, I'm not, I'm talking generally there are those who, like, have this urge and, you know, that's great, but for a lot of women, it's like my teacher said, it's kind of like going to the theater.

When I go, I enjoy it, but if I don't go for a while, not too much happens, I'm still fine.

And so one of the big, big things is how to go from doing to being.

You know, how do we get Our brain to switch off and being.

I mean, that's a problem for all women, but for women with ADHD wiring, everything's popping up all the time.

And if you don't say it, then you're going to forget it.

You know, again, going back to the book, I have him complaining that they're about to have sex with.

She has this great idea for reorganizing the laundry room.

You know, and a lot of us are there.

We, our brain is still popping and if we have busy lives, we haven't actually spoken to our partners, so we actually would rather talk to them maybe.

And we've got all these ideas and how are we actually going to close down our brain and go to this place where we're sort of being.

I'm going on a journey.

And I'm not just talking about intercourse.

I'm using sex in terms of what I do with my partner that I don't do with anyone else.

I'm not, you know, we're not talking specifically about intercourse.

And what's even worse today is that we, we have this whole Hollywood thing, you know, and anyone who watches this is what I'm talking to with, about with my couples a lot, that we have this Hollywood idea that they fall in love and they're in bed and it all works and orgasms and good knows what.

But that's not what life is.

And it's actually an effort, especially for women who are sort of.

If you had a graph and men are sort of halfway up most of the time.

Women are like minus something most of the time.

They have a long way to travel up.

And one of the biggest issues is how to calm your brain and get into that sort of meditative state that you need to be in in order to, to have sex or to have an intimacy and enjoy it.

And that is a big, big challenge for, for women with adhd.

Yeah.

I think when you just said, then how do we calm our brain to get into that sort of meditative state?

It's like, totally, totally.

That's exactly.

I get into bed and like you say, you know, almost to the, to the.

To the word is.

I say, have you thought if we.

Rearrange the cupboards and did it this.

Way, or do you think we should put a porch in?

It's so hard to switch the brain off.

And also, you know, we do very well during the day by having this brain switched on.

I mean, we wouldn't survive.

We actually achieve a lot because we can jump from thing to thing, but and suddenly remember the dentist appointment or, you know, or forget it.

But what I'm saying is that our brain gets a lot of positive feedback for, for being able to be like that.

And we get a lot of positive feedback and we live in a world that values rushing from thing to thing being productive.

If we lived in a, in a hippie world that valued, you know, looking at flowers, we, we'd.

It would be easier for us.

We don't have situation in our society where we get positive feedback for being able to relax.

One of the things that I try and do with clients, to try and help them to get to this place, which I find very successful, really to learn to use your senses, to go in from a sensory place.

So one of the things I'll say, like the homework will be to have a shower and really feel every drop.

Imagine that, this shower, even if you have a terrible day, you had the most amazing shower.

And again you're switching off your brain in the shower, which is also a new thing because otherwise you'd be writing shopping lists.

And we're also one step ahead.

What am I going to do after the shower?

You force yourself to, you know, you're in the shower.

Do I like it on my neck?

Do I like it hotter on my neck?

Do I like.

How can I feel the drops?

That's one way.

Or the bath?

With the bath, you can kind of do multi sensory if you like.

If it's not too much.

I'm going to feel this bath, I'm going to listen to this music.

I might even have a glass of wine or a cup of tea.

I'm going to really be there with my senses and really feel what I'm doing.

And it trains the brain to help you to be in the here and now, in your senses, which is useful for bed sometimes.

And you could go and try this.

It's very difficult.

I say to my clients, you know, there was a time that people used to sit around the gramophone, the record player, listen to records.

And now when you ask people, do they listen to music?

It's always, I don't know, when I'm in the car, when I'm washing the dishes, when I'm something and I ask them to sit and listen to one song that they like on YouTube from beginning to end, without moving, thinking about what it's doing to them, like how the body is, you know, reacting to the song and not pressing on the phone to see how many minutes are left.

It's very, very difficult.

These are the things that we need to be able to do to slow ourselves down.

And again, you don't get any feedback from society on this.

So it's very.

It's a whole different way of being.

If this episode has been helpful for you and you're looking for more tools and more guidance, my brand new book, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit is out now.

You can find it wherever you buy your books from.

You can also check out the audiobook if you do prefer to listen to me.

I have narrated it all myself.

Thank you so much for being here and I will see you for the next episode.