Brett Johnson [00:00:00]:

We are looking forward our way from Studio C in the 511 studios in the Brewery District. That's just south of downtown Columbus, Ohio. Hi. This is Brett. One issue Carol and I have wanted to cover is the challenge of food insecurity, particularly with older adults But truly, with all families in Central Ohio.

Carol Ventresca [00:00:19]:

Brett, you many of us have never had a hungry day in our lives. Yet, so many in our community were in dire situations even before the pandemic and now are on the verge of disasters. Nearly 1000000 people live in the city of Columbus, which has an 18 percent poverty rate. It's a hundred and 70000 people just in our city. So let's welcome Chuck Gehring, who is the CEO and president of LifeCare Alliance, as our guest today Chuck is going to help us unpack this information and see where we are headed on these critical issues.

Chuck Gehring [00:00:55]:

Hello.

Brett Johnson [00:00:56]:

Thanks for having me. Yes. You know, we've got a lot to talk about today, but I think it would behoove us to hear a little bit more about you and your journey at LifeCare Alliance. Well, I've been the CEO of Life Care Alliance for 22 years this month, and

Chuck Gehring [00:01:11]:

it's wonderful. Congratulations. But I well, yeah, they haven't fired me. So that's a good thing. But I started out. I I spent 20 plus years in for profit. I was with I I was an accounting undergrad at all the Ohio State University -- Go Bucks. -- and started in public accounting briefly and then spent the decade in the eighties. Or actually the decade of the 2 thousands because I'm only 29 years old. But, anyway, decade of the eighties with Anheuser Busch. And finance and operations. And then with a food service company for much of the nineties, but you know what happened, I was the person they sent oftentimes to talk to some of the nonprofits. I was not the philanthropy person. We didn't have 1 of those. But they'd go and say, hey. Find out what they need and what they want. Really? I and I was put on a lot of boards, especially at Anheuser. It was important that we were in the community because of the product we made. And I got to know the nonprofit community, and it was really interesting to me. And so 22 years ago, here I am. And I got here, and here I am. So I did go almost out of state to Xavier for an NBA, but I've been here. I grew up on the west side. I'm a hill topper. And so I've been here a long time. And -- Some incredible people on the hilltop. We've done a lot for our city. And I love it here, so I don't know that I need to live any place else. Wonderful. And that amazing way career path will take you. You don't even you know, you go school for 1 thing and all of a sudden you realize, oh, somebody will tell you. But you know what? In the 2 thousands, you're gonna be at a nonprofit doing this. You get no. That's what I'm going to school That's right. -- amazing. That's right. And I never thought of that because I was just trying to get up as high as I could at Anheuser Busch in the eighties, and we were prepared to move. I probably it was really dumb luck that I was not shipped off someplace. I got promoted a couple times right in Columbus. Which was a real oddity for Anheuser, my boss, who hired me, who I still talk to and love, moved 13 times. And but during the the time I had at Anheuser, we had 4 little kids. And

Carol Ventresca [00:03:15]:

so we thought, oh, well, we better think about this a little bit. Wonderful. So and, you know, not too many people admit to being Columbusites,

Chuck Gehring [00:03:22]:

being board and bred in Franklin County. Oh, I was I was born and bred on the hilltop, and I just think it's a wonderful place. Mhmm. Hilltops changed a little bit, and it's funny because after all that for profit experience, you roam around. You're everywhere, and you come back down. I went down because somebody said you need to go down interview with people getting, and I went down to LifeCare Alliance. And I said, this is where I used to ride my bike -- Mhmm. -- as a kid. Right. And it was just I thought this was gonna be I said, this is this is this is this is this is this dumb. I'm not coming down here. But then, you know what happened? My parents both ended up with a form of dementia. And they were about a mile away from the office, and that was kind of a godsend -- Yes. -- for many years because I was able to run over and take them out after or work or help them out or whatever it was. And we went through many almost a decade of horrendous stuff with them. So and then I've had to move them. And so if you're put I'm kind of a a person who believes in fate, and you're you end up where you're supposed to end up. Absolutely. And I think I've ended up where I'm supposed to end up. Absolutely. III grew up in Linden, Mhmm. And

Carol Ventresca [00:04:27]:

when the Linden Park was renovated, got a chance to go to a meeting there. And I was just walking around going, this is pretty cold. You know? I used to play tennis here and, you know -- Mhmm. -- basketball over there. And yeah. Well and a lot of people don't like that, but I think it's great. Oh, absolutely. And I think it's good. My kids grew up here and stuff and and set us some faraway place and

Chuck Gehring [00:04:50]:

this is a wonderful community. It really is. And it's

Carol Ventresca [00:04:55]:

they're just so generous, and it's a place to be, and a lot of good things get done here. Well, and a lot of good people like you, Chuck, who are doing great things for our community. So kudos to you, and and congratulations on your 22 years. We're glad you're celebrating with today. Good. Same to you, Carol. You've done a lot of good stuff here too. We well, we've had fun doing it too. So so let's I guess we're gonna move on here after our our patent each other on the back. We, Columbusites, who do that well. So, Chuck, in 20 20, the state of Ohio published the poverty report stating that Ohio had a 13.9 percent poverty rate. That's a million and a half people. Franklin County is not only higher in percentage than the rest of the state, but also nationally, which is only 13.1 percent. Unfortunately, Columbus has had a large population of those in need for decades. Life care alliance has been a major factor in our community since 8 team 98. Now you weren't there when it started. Not that long ago. -- smart aleck. You know, I just had to put that in there. So tell us more about the history of life care alliance, its mission, and the individuals

Chuck Gehring [00:06:03]:

who met those challenges of poverty so long ago. Well, I'd tell you that, first of all, I think the poverty percentage that you just quoted, which I understand is the percentage I think is low. Probably. Because it's how you look at poverty. I mean, those are numbers, but there's a lot of people who just struggle from day to day. With food and securities and just being able to pay. We see them all the time. We pay a lot of rents and utilities at our place. And it's It's so the stories and people think, oh, well, why aren't they paying their bills and things like that? These people are doing the best they can. Mhmm. And it really is and we're we're just creating this circle of problems sometimes. Because, you know, when the child in the household gets into seventh and eighth grade, there's parent that can do the math homework with them or anything like that. And it just it just makes it a very difficult situation. And we still have This is a high end city. This is you know, we've always said because it's a state capital. There's great employment. You have the major university here and things like that. But there's still a lot of people who are making under 15 dollars an hour. Right. And I don't know even with 2 people earning 15 bucks an hour how you do very well with that. But LifeCare Alliance goes back to 18 98. We're a hundred and 25 years old this year, and this is the fiftieth anniversary also of the Meals on Wheels program with us. So it's big year. And I would tell you that We were founded by a woman named Catherine Nelson Black, who went by Carrie. And in 18 97 and 8, she went on a train to Chicago and Philadelphia look at a new thing called the district nursing office. There were no health departments in those days. And, Carol, you know, in 18 98, could you vote as a woman No. And she's out founding agency. So she came back and said, we gotta do something about this. There's too many people using hospital emergency rooms as waiting rooms and for colds and things they didn't know about, and there was no in home care. And we just didn't have the nursing homes in these beautiful senior you know, independent living facilities we have today. So it was what can we do about this? And she founded LifeCare Alliance to take care of those as she said nobody else pays any attention to back in 18 98. But the design was to do nursing and in home care in the streets and in the homes to keep you out of a hospital and keep you happy and healthy where you wanted to live. And we're still doing that today. Isn't that amazing? We're still doing that today, and I try to follow that. We've got the original minutes book, and I try to follow her guidance all the time as to what did they want. And I know things change and things have to be updated, and you get into new situations and things like that. But She was amazing. She went on in 19 o 6 to file on the tuberculosis society, which was the disease of the day now called Central Ohio Breathing Association, or COBRA, And then in 19 21, she founded the first free cancer clinic in the country called the Columbus Cancer Clinic. And that was independent from 19 21 to 2005 at which time it merged into us. And we took it because our clients needed their services not because of Carrie necessarily, but she was a driving force and all this stuff. And we just felt like we had to help out. And we have That is now the Columbus Cancer Clinic is now the last to free cancer clinic in the state of Ohio and for all states touching Ohio. Think through that 1. And the reason is, of course, money, and we're blessed to be able to carry it on and some other partnerships that we have. We took on central higher diabetes in 20 17. We took on diabetes date in 20. We can talk about other things, Project Open Hand, back in o 4, which is basically meals on wheels for people with HIV and AIDS, which is a big thing in Columbus, Ohio. So we serve seniors and medically challenged. Through nutrition and health care. That's what we say about ourselves. And and a medically challenged person is somebody who's under senior age, which is 60 to the feds. Mhmm. And but they have a medical challenge that causes them to assess out as in needing these services

Carol Ventresca [00:10:05]:

as a older person might. Okay. You know, it's amazing that she went to Chicago to get information on this nursing group. As a sociology major at at Otterbein in Ohio State, We we talked a lot about whole house in Chicago, which was the first settlement house. Mhmm. And Columbus had a wonderful settlement house grouping here, which we've lost a few over time, but we still have have have Saint Stephen's and some others that are doing a great job in the community. Yep. Absolutely. So at least we went and learned our lessons with what was working in other cities. And I will say that Carrie

Chuck Gehring [00:10:44]:

happened to be married in 18 98 to the mayor. My name is Sam Black, but she did all this on her own. And Sam actually was the person that created the juvenile justice system here in town. He was an attorney and a lawyer. And didn't wanna be mayor, but they needed somebody. So he became mayor for 2 years, which was their term limits. But what a little power couple they were. Right. And so we have an awful lot of somebody had a lot of brains at our place and threw things into boxes, history. And we've got a lot of great pictures, a lot of great history, Ohio connection has some of our stuff, but we're very fortunate, and we play off that all the time because it's been quite a little ride. Wonderful. Wonderful.

Brett Johnson [00:11:25]:

Well, life care alliance has changed dramatically over the last hundred and 20 years, of course, but the, you know, mission stayed the same. What's changed over the years in programs and services and Well, ultimately, what's happening in our community that prevents us from fixing the those situations.

Chuck Gehring [00:11:41]:

Yeah. Well, I don't know that there we're gonna be totally fixed. I you know, when I hear somebody say, we're gonna cure hunger. We're gonna cure homelessness. I think those are great aspirational goals. It it's we're gonna be gone before that happens probably, unfortunately. Yeah. And it's just because of volume. And other issues all around the country. And, again, in Central Ohio, we're probably much better off than many communities. We're significantly ahead. But in the last hundred and 25 years, what's changed is that we were the nursing group. We were the health department till 19 50. And then the government said we need a health department, and they did that. And we acted as that. And but we were a nursing group. And then when the older Americans Act came out in the sixties under Lyndon Johnson, that that came out with this pilot program, the idea that, oh, we could take a meal into somebody's house because every study ever done Still to this day, says the way you stay independent in your own home is by proper nutrition. That's number 1. Now exercise is catching up. And there's some other things that are up there too. But nutrition is number 1, so they tried this pilot program 50 years ago with Philadelphia and us, and We've had that ever since. But in the past 22 years since I've been there, which is what I know best, because I've been there, you know, 1 of the big trends in nonprofits is if you merge agencies, you can get more services to more people at less cost because think about. There's only 1 of me being paid. There's only 1 accounting department, 1 human resource department, 1 copy machine, etcetera, etcetera. And you can pack everybody into a building together. So we've taken on a number of other agencies. We've taken on 4 other Meals counties. We're 1 of the few in the country with more than 1 county. And we're probably with COVID now coming out of COVID. We may be the largest non profit based on number of home delivered meals in the country, believe it or not, for meals on wheels. But we've added this health care side of the business, which we knew people needed. So we've added the Columbus Cancer Clinic, which does not cure cancer, doesn't operate on a bite, but helps people through. We've added 2 diabetic service organizations. We at an AIDS organization. And last year, we went to arthritis because there's many of the national organizations that have a disease in their name. That are going all research all the time. Mhmm. Because you can't lose money, you know, it comes in. You and they wanna cure it. Great. Be my guest, but who's helping you through? So we were asked by some people here in town to take on arthritis services too. And I would tell you, the number 1 diagnosis amongst our almost 30000 clients in our database is diabetes. Number 2 is arthritis because we had diagnosis for people. And I would tell you that it's just AAAAA tough thing to get through. So we took that on, and we do other things. And then we do social enterprise, which is we have a catering company, and and we do corporate wellness for people. Just to make money so we can stay in business because we have to do that. And we've done other things over the years that have we think have really gotten a lot more services to a lot more people. And they're really I know this is me talking, so you're listening to me gearing running LifeCare Alliance. But There is nothing like Life Care Alliance with all these services packed together in 1 place anywhere in the United States. And that has been proven. And I will tell you, the feds are actually studying us right now. The federal government folks from the community living offices, which is the old department of aging, are actually studying us with and they're getting information out that this this logic works. So let's share it. Mhmm. And we've always shared, but they're trying to formalize it more so that more people can get out there. Unfortunately, on the meal side, We are probably through COVID now. The we went up 68 percent when COVID hit in 20 20, March 20 20, in home delivered meals. Think through that in your business. You suddenly add 68 percent more

Carol Ventresca [00:15:32]:

product. With a quarter of the number of

Chuck Gehring [00:15:35]:

staff and volunteers to do the work. Yeah. And then we're currently up 75 percent. 3 years later, So it it hasn't gone down. It's gone up because they found more people that suddenly lost supports or whatever during COVID. I mean, it's just tough time. People just don't have money right now. And, you know, the prices have gone up tremendously. So they're they've always struggled between to your question, Brett, you know, do I buy my medicine this month? Do I eat? Yeah. So you're gonna eat first. Right? And then you're gonna buy medicine. And then but a lot of times, they don't know and and they don't know what they don't know. Mhmm. So they don't know that there are all these cool prescription pricing programs out there, like GoodRx. And those things or that how Medicare works, and they're afraid to call the doctor because they know there's a deductible with Medicare. So we become the primary caregivers for most of these folks. But but I would tell you, we're probably the only ones to get back to my original point here. With COVID where it is now, we are probably the only ones with very few exceptions in the country with no waiting list for meals. And I would tell you, if you're in Cincinnati to leave or Cleveland a day, you've probably got a minimum of 1500 people ahead of you to get a meal. And 25 percent of our new clients are coming out of the hospital. So, Brett or Carol, you go to the hospital. Have your gallbladder taken out. They send you home 4 days later, assuming you had to stay a little longer. You had a heart attack or cancer. You can stay James for a couple months without even trying too hard to be cured from cancer, and they do a great job with that. We have great hospital system here. It's unbelievable, really. And but you come home and there's nothing. Right. So what do you eat? So you eat crackers and you go back into the hospital, and the hospitals don't get paid the second time because, you know, if you go back into a hospital, a lot of people don't know this. If you go back into the hospital for the same diagnosis, And within a certain amount of time, when you're on Medicare or Medicaid, the hospital doesn't get paid anywhere near what they need to be paid. So they don't want you to come back, but they've gotta help you. And so our job is to get you home and then get there. So we start generally meal service within 24 hours. The next day. So they the hospitals know to call us today and say, hey. Carol is going home tomorrow. She had a heart attack. She's been here for a week and a half. We're sending her home tomorrow, but she needs help. She has no help. We will accept you, generally, and you, at no cost, Most of the people don't pay anything for our stuff, our services. And we will show up the next day when you get home from the hospital, and we'll have good nutritious food for you, and you're off and running.

Carol Ventresca [00:18:09]:

Chuck, I know before pit the pandemic, you you always told us there was no waiting list. I'm I'm I just have to give you another pat on the back to not have a waiting list now, given all of the issues that we've had to deal with over the past 3 years. We're very proud of that. Oh my gosh. Yeah. Now I would tell you the agency lost a million dollars last year too, but -- Yeah. -- we're able to take care of that because of other years. But

Chuck Gehring [00:18:34]:

When you take you know, as I tell the board, I can dial the bottom line pretty much at this point in my life and being an old finance guy, But the way you do it is you drop clients. But we don't make it up on volume. I mean, you have to you have left clients, and there are some people I had another city in the country tell me not too long ago, well, we don't have waiting list. So we started comparing. And I said, that's great. I'm so thrilled you don't have waiting list. Well, we found out that their threshold for taking you was a whole lot different than our threshold. Right. And so what some have done in the country out of need again, and I'm not being negative to these folks. But out of need, they've jacked up what the requirements are. Mhmm. What happens is the way you get everybody thinks you get like meals on wheels based on your income. Wrong. You can be the wealthiest person in Central Ohio. We're happy to give you meals. You just we just might ask you to help pay for them about 2 percent of our clients pay. The way you qualify for all these services, generally, especially the older Americans act type of services, are being assessed. And it's called activities of daily living, which is an old assessment tool developed up in cleave at Case Western, believe it or not, the fifties still used throughout the country. And they look at things, you know, the first level is like, okay. Can you drive? Can you cook for yourself? Can you get to the store? Can you physically bathe yourself, can you get dressed in the morning? It it keeps drilling down. It can. It depends what level you use. But then it gets into things like, well, can you transfer from a bed to a chair a wheelchair? Mhmm. You know, things like that. And if you can't do that stuff and you don't have people helping you, then you qualify. Mhmm. And that's how you get the and we're a city also. We're very proud of the fact here that we're 1 of the very, very few of places in the country that takes people under senior age, under age 60. But, you know, like, we've got I've got a veteran on the west side who's quadriplegic. He got shot in the neck while he was in the military. You know, we're taking care he lives on his own, takes care of it, but he needs our meals. He needs a nurse to show up once in a while. But where's how much money does that save? Yeah. Right. Versus -- Right. -- him going to a nursing home that's full anyway, and, you know, Medicaid's gonna have to pay for it. So we save a lot of tax dollars also. So we actually have a bonus in our services is that we save the Medicaid dollars that were going to be spent on assisted living or nursing home care Right. Which in Central Ohio right now, ARP tells us this isn't even my number. ARP says it's 89000 on average a year for 1 person. And that's pretty true for a lot of nursing home and assisted living care. And they have their place. My mom died in a nursing home. I'm not nursing homes are great. If you when you get to and she had horrendous Alzheimer's. It was tied into a wheelchair. I had no idea who I was. And you know, it's it's unfortunate. I sure didn't want her to die there, but, I mean, we would have literally kept her in her house watching her 24 hours a day because she would have just fallen over. I mean, it was she was a vegetable pretty much. And

Carol Ventresca [00:21:38]:

so there's a place for those those homes and things. But a lot of people can stay in their own home with the help. Right. Exactly. And so this goes to my next question. I get very frustrated when I hear folks say, well, can't they go out and get a job. You know, when you're talking about your client base and all the people you're taking care of, These are not folks who can just go out and get a job or who can afford to pay for caregivers or or hatered meals or or open what is that? What's the group that Grubhub?

Brett Johnson [00:22:14]:

Whatever it is. Yeah. Yeah.

Carol Ventresca [00:22:16]:

And and it's not that they didn't take care of themselves for a decades, and it's not that they didn't save. But there are limits on what

Chuck Gehring [00:22:27]:

an individual can take on cost wise. Well, 70 percent of our clients I hate to throw all these stats at you folks listening to this, but it'll give you a little more perspective. 70 we do a lot of research with our clients. We have to. And 70 percent of live on under 1200 dollars a month income, which is the Social Security check -- Right. -- that they earned when they worked 20 to 30 years prior to this Exactly. I mean, think about it. Even if you go back to a a basket, we got the NBA finals and and the pro football and all that, and they say, well, 20 years ago when I played, I only made 200000 dollars a year versus what they're making it nowadays. Well, it's the same deal. Mhmm. Now the Social Security checks just haven't they can't keep up. So they're doing the best they can, but think about 1200 a month. Mhmm. And we're getting into summer when you've got air conditioning bills or maybe you don't have have air conditioning bills because you can't turn your can't afford to turn them on. That's why we have our fan campaign every summer. Collect fans for people. We do that too. But 1200 dollars a month just doesn't, you know, try living on it. And I tell people, you know, pick a 90 degree day. Note in your windows and turn your air off and spend the day in your house. See how that works for you. Mhmm. And think about doing that for 5 months. Which is really what we're talking about here because this goes into October. Mhmm. I mean, even at 75 outside, it can get pretty hot in a lot of these houses. And there's no circulation and stuff. And then, okay. Can I afford? What can I buy on 1200 dollars a month for myself? And the problem is a lot of these folks, if you have a family and you have kids or grandkids who are taking care of you, that's wonderful. That's the way it's supposed to work. A lot of people just don't. Sometimes they've outlived them. They live in other cities. There there's, you know, problems there. Grandma, give me money, you know, type of thing. And and as to your point, Carol, they would work if they could. Mhmm. And I would tell you, in our dining centers, which are part of the meal program that we have in towers and things where seniors live, medically challenged people live, we employ as the coordinator there, 1 of the clients. Now it's not a lot of money, but they love it because they're they're valuable. Exactly. And they're they're doing the meal orders every day, and they're walking around the building, meeting people, and they're saying, hey. You ought to come to our dining center, replay bingo, or we have shows and all kinds of good stuff. And so we they want to work. And I would tell you some of the younger people out there that we're serving who have severe chronic illnesses. I mean, severe stuff. They wanna work, but sometimes they can't. Mhmm. They just can't or they can't get that job But you are seeing, I think, in the last several years, last decade, especially, you see a lot of seniors working at Kroger and Lowe's and -- Oh, yeah. -- all these other help depot and stuff because a lot of times they just wanna do it. Well, oh, absolutely. And that 1, we would see that in our office. But they also need the money. Yeah. And you know it because you ran employment for seniors all those years, and People want to work. But but, you know, sometimes when the pain is just too much, in COVID really incapacitated people. I mean, if you had AAA chronic illness like a diabetes or a cancer, you go out into the community and you get COVID, you might have, at the least, been in the hospital. Right. Yeah. I mean, you're gonna take that chance, and it just isn't gonna happen. And so To your point, Brett, earlier, you know, why are we still struggling with this? Well, you know, it's what it is. There's a lot of people that were good solid people. Like my parents who worked hard all their lives, but then have a a small Social Security check. That's what they got and some savings. And they're doing the best they can. Yeah. But when you can't physically and do we want everybody out driving around to the stores when they're and I'm not saying you can't because there's plenty of 9 90 year olds that are better drivers than me, probably, and us. But like my mother-in-law, who's 91, she can she's fast. She needs to be studied. She's so good. She's amazing. What a conversationalist. You gotta make sure she listens to this podcast. She's well, I tell her this all the time. She's phenomenal, but she's the exception, not the rule. Right. And, you know, we're still dealing with a generation of 80 and 90 year old people who smoked -- Mhmm. -- who were Vietnam vets, you know, my neighbors got age age and orange. I mean, you know, etcetera, etcetera. I'm not trying to blame the military or anything here. I'm just telling you what's going on. So why it hasn't been fixed is and the number of seniors and elderly is is is the fastest growing group in Ohio and now it's got the biggest group in Ohio. So it's getting attention because they're the people voting. And I can tell you, we help our people sign up. We don't tell them who to vote for. We just say, hey. Read, you know, and and online to some of these folks is is another story. They don't have online. But they don't have the cell phones and all the cool stuff that we have sometimes, but they can watch television. All our clients watch TV. And they can educate themselves and they vote. And, you know, so I think we're gonna see continue to see increased focus from our elected officials. I'm anxious to see this next presidential campaign, especially since the Democratic runner is gonna be 82 years old. Right. -- almost when he's running on this focus on, well, you know, we're we're educated too, and we're gonna vote. Yeah. So it's interesting.

Carol Ventresca [00:28:08]:

And this is what's scary, and I think why it's important that we have this conversation with you today on Meals on Wheels and the services for seniors is that this population is growing. And the the statistic I always use from script gerontology program at Miami -- Yep. -- is that in another 10 years, our population in every county but 2 will be

Chuck Gehring [00:28:37]:

at least 25 20 percent over 60. Yep. And so if you've got 20, 25 percent over sent over and 20, 25 percent under 18, there aren't a lot of people who are going to be able to drive the economy. And and that's the way it is across the country. Right. And if you have seniors who have discretionary income or discretionary savings, then they will help drive the economy, but you're just gonna have a lot more people who are on this. Right. The other thing that happened over the past many, many years, when Pat t Berry was a US congress He now runs the Ohio business roundtable. He gave me a graph years ago, and he says, Gary, we love you. We'd love to give you more money, but here's the reality of the situation. And basically had little Pac Man. Remember Pac Man? Mhmm. Little Pac Man on this graphic, and it said, you know, the federal budget has a discretionary portion and a nondiscretionary portion. The nondiscretionary portion is the mandated stuff like Gotta pay Social Security. Gotta pay Veterans benefits, Medicare, Medicaid, that kind of stuff. And the discretionary part of the budget is often the Department of Defense and everything else. K? And around 19 75, the discretionary part of the budget was the vast majority. It was it was 75 percent of the budget. That has flipped. And the bottom line, as as Pat used to tell, and congressman T. Berry used to tell me, is that as we saw this Pac Man, he it just keeps eating up the discretionary part. And now the discretion and if you do your taxes and you get a go online to iris dot gov, look at the tax the 10:40 instruction booklet. The last couple of pages actually has pie charts on how the revenue comes into the government and how it gets spent. And if you compare that back, which we have done, there's just no discretionary the discretionary part of the budget. Is just shrunk, shrunk, shrunk, and it just isn't there. So for us to keep getting funding is becomes difficult. And we've seen We've given no government money back over the years. We like our friends in the government. We're about 40 percent government funded. When I got there in 22 years ago, we were 92 percent funded by government in United Way. It's now 40 -- Right. -- on a good year. And we gave nothing back. It's because they just don't have the money. Right. And so it's been good through COVID because they had the CARES Act money and then the American Rescue Act money certainly, which has helped out tremendously. Well, we just couldn't have taken the clients without it. I mean, there's just no ifs, ands, or buts. There were a lot of people that got it, but we're now gonna have this Medicaid cliff as it's called which is happening around the country as we speak, it's gonna happen more in Central Ohio at the end of the year because our county county of Franklin. We're in multiple, multiple counties around here, but Franklin will quote them. They've done a great job of supporting us, and they're gonna support everybody that they've we've got in service that they can through the end of the year, 40 percent funded by the government. And but it's it's common. Mhmm. And I don't know, you know, 1 reason we haven't to Brett's point again, 1 reason this hasn't been cured is the funding has been horrible until recently. If we if we delivered a title 3, which is older Americans act, Federal Meal, and I'm throwing this out so you can Google older Americans act. You can Google title 3. It's BCD, you'll see the different categories for different things. If we delivered 1 meal to 1 person in in Franklin County, until recently, we got 3 dollars and 70 cents. And that's with the increased price with chicken going up 54 percent with unbi not being able to get everything. We're still up across the board 22 percent in food cost. And our food my broccoli is cheaper than your broccoli -- Mhmm. -- because I buy a lot of food. Yeah. And my so food is something that really gets discounted the more you buy. Because they can store it easier. They know what to carry. It's it's just how it works. And it's something that really comes becomes a lot cheaper with your volume. And it's still we're still up 22 percent. The trays, the meals go out in, are up. We had 2 8 percent price increases in those in the last year and a half. I mean and people were like and I'd ask them, so why did your price go up? Did the materials cost more or whatever? Well, you know, it's just the way the economy is, which means they can. Right? We saw this in automobiles. Sure. But, you know, the discounts went bye bye. Now they're coming back again. Right? Right. And people were charging above sticker price on cars and now, it's coming back down a little bit. So and I was just reading an article today about eggs. You know, eggs became -- Oh, goodness. It was like horrendous. Yeah. And now they're coming back down. They're dropping. They're gonna go back to old levels and things. But, you know, these are cycles. But the reason it hasn't been cured, Brett, is the funding is so horrible for some of this stuff -- Mhmm. -- that so we're 33 percent now at our agency, and we're a big agency, and this number is the biggest you're gonna find in the country. Where 33 percent of our budget comes from private donations, corporate donations, and grants. And I'm not talking about government grants. I'm talking about corporate grants, things like that, different organizations. And, fortunately, there's a lot of wonderful foundations, private family foundations, stuff out there that started up over the years that wanna give back, and they're trying to give grants out and stuff. But but the funding for this is horrendous. Randomness. Yeah. Well, you know, the meals on wheels is likely the most familiar program

Brett Johnson [00:34:03]:

that that you have. However, it's not just about a meal. I'm meal saying there are more many more people receiving meals than we realize, and the service includes more than just dropping off a tray of food. Talk a little bit more about this great program who's receiving the assistance, the value of staff, and the volunteers, and the importance, of course, to the client in the end. It it looks to be that that human touch, which is really cool. Well,

Chuck Gehring [00:34:27]:

it is. And that's kinda going away. Mhmm. I hate This is 1 of my favorite topics. You'll tell them I'll tell you. We actually have for profit competition these days in Meals on Wheels. That have come into the area. They will not deliver any of them will not deliver a hot meal. So the way we have always done it is you get a hot meal, We show up at your house at lunchtime because, you know, in December in Columbus, Ohio, it's dark at 04:00. Right. Can't see your house number, and it's And, frankly, the best time for you to have your big meal is in the middle of the day for digestion, especially as you age. So that's how the program was started federally. And we've if you use the name Meals on Wheels, Let me just say this to you. You're supposed to follow the federal guideline that that meal is at least 1 third of your daily nutritional requirements. And it's low in fat, sodium, and sugar content. So for example, every meal goes out from us is is almost always the whole meal is under 1200 milligrams of sodium, which is salt. Right? If There is a fast food group that will shall remain nameless. They're not headquartered in Columbus, Ohio, so they're throwing Wendy's out of this. They have pretty nice stuff. But they have if you look on their website, it gives nutritional elements. And if you look at their grilled chicken sandwich so this is a grilled chicken sandwich, and you dunk the mayo or the sauce. And so you have grilled chicken on a bun with lettuce and tomato. It's got 2500 milligrams of sodium. And and we're our meals the whole meal's going out at 1200. And the reason for that is, as the chicken goes down the line of Tyson chicken, they inject it with salt because it's a preservative. It makes it taste good. So why wouldn't you? We buy the chicken. It hadn't been injected. And but but our meals, the point is they're low in fat, so I'm a sugar content. If you choose as client to put salt on, it's great. But here's the point. We always delivered the hot meal at lunch, like I was saying, and we still do that with our volunteers and our paid drivers. And then if you qualify for 2 meals a day, which means you really have no help, and some people get them 3 days a week. Some people get 5 days a week because you may be your daughter lives with you, and she's home on the weekends and can cook and things like that. It's how you qualify. So it's you gotta qualify. I mean, this is not just giving stuff away. And but a lot gets 7. We are the last group in the state delivering 7 days a week and weekends and holidays. Because we feel that's very important. To your point, Brett, we're getting to the point about the touch, the daily touch. But we do hot meals, so they bring out the hot meal at lunch. If you qualify for second meal, it's a deli style cold meal. They put it in your fridge. All you do at night is take it out. Eat it. You know, if you touch it, it's a salad, it's a sandwich, whatever it might be, side dishes, all healthy stuff, but tasting good too. You know, Meat Loaf is always top on the parade for us. And and things like that. All of them it would be mine too. -- lasagna and spaghetti and meatballs and things like that. And we now have a cheese omelet, though, that's hit number 1 on the hip break. You're tough. But the point is you get that hot meal. You don't have to do anything. And as you age, maybe you get a little forgetful. And we find all the time are route sheets. If you're a volunteer to learn for us, they have the client's phone number on it. Because sometimes people fall asleep in the chair just watching television. Right? I know I fall asleep in chairs sometimes watching television. And so they do that, so they gotta be called and things like that. But my point is we don't really want people using their ovens -- Mhmm. -- as they age and get a little more forgetful. Sure. I would tell you, recently, we did the survey few years ago, but not that long ago. 15 percent of our clients on the meal sir in in Franklin County did not have a microwave oven they could use. 2 parts to that sentence. Didn't have microwave oven, couldn't use it. My mom, at the end, with her Alzheimer's, had this microwave oven, I bought her for some stupid amount of money that had all these buttons. And they were using they were heating up their coffee 12 times a day and having popcorn. It was great, and she stopped using it. We started seeing posted notes on it. I said, so what what why aren't you using it like you used to? And it says it was kinda complicated. Mhmm. You know, you don't how many 90 year olds have a smartphone?

Carol Ventresca [00:38:44]:

Right. And

Chuck Gehring [00:38:46]:

so they don't have that capacity. So the hot meal means something. Second thing is if you're getting a hot meal, 1 of our volunteers of paid drivers is showing up at your door at lunchtime every day, knocking on your door. And besides giving you the mail, they're talking to you for a few minutes before they go out and they're saying, they all say, how are you doing? Mhmm. And some of the clients, they know we see we get incident reports that I see all of them. All the time that, well, they found Joe on the floor. Joe's comment is always the same if my kids fell out find he might be fine. He just couldn't get up. Mhmm. If my kids find out I fell, they'll put me in a home. That's always the comment. It's always what they say. I'm not making this stuff up. We find people in distress. Well, my chest really hurts, but I don't think I should do anything about it. You know, you hear these things Are you going these houses a 90 degree day and the house is horrendous or in the wintertime cold? They set their thermostats at 60 because that's what they can afford. But they're happy there. Okay? But every day, somebody's looking at you saying, how are you doing? Well, what happened a few years ago? Because they wanted to have more choice at least the the funders did, is they went also to frozen meals. So some of our for profit folks had come into them. And I'm not being totally negative about them, but they do only frozen, which get delivered once a week. And what's happened lately that I think is the most horrendous thing I've ever heard of is their dropship in these things. So you are an elderly person who doesn't move well, who probably doesn't go out of the porch because it's got a step and you're afraid you're gonna fall. And here comes the box from the delivery company. And it's we we tried this a few weeks ago. We ordered 1. It was 28 pound box of food. So first of all, does your freezer hold a week a week of 2 meals a day is 14 meals or 14 meals if they a lot of them are delivering once every 2 weeks. So does your freezer hold 14 meals plus milks or juices, plus fruits. Do your bananas wait? Are they still good after 14 days? No. And things like that. And the person can't handle it. They can't pick up a 28 pound box. We take it into the house, so it's important. But that touch every day, Yet, you know, if you're the daughter or that you're the son, Brett, and you live in Kansas, but mom's here, And you're on our service. You know 1 of our people is in that house every day for a few minutes. How you doing?

Carol Ventresca [00:41:13]:

Mhmm.

Chuck Gehring [00:41:14]:

And You know, I the stories, stories, stories. People tell us we've saved their lives. We hear this constantly, and we're not patting ourselves on the back, but but that's part of the deal. But now it's gotten commercialized, and, oh, can we just drop ship meals? And gee, we'll make a dollar off this. But you know, we had a for profit purse company just give everybody 30 days notices. We do Marion County too. Mhmm. And Marion, they gave everybody all their clients 3 day note. You are required if you have a meal client. If you're not gonna keep servicing them, you have to give them a physical letter to address to them. 30 days notice. They gave everybody 30 days notice. Hey. Can't do it anymore. Not making any money. Yeah. Well, what a surprise. This is not a money making deal. McDonald's does not deliver to your house for 4 dollars. Right. Right. I don't know what you would get for nothing against McDonald's for them. But, I mean, they can't do it -- No. -- for what we're getting paid and stuff. So that's why we need volunteers, and that's why it was developed this way. And Meals, I'll give you a bar trivia here. So you can be real smartest person in the room. Mhmm. Neil's on Wheels. Really, the concept was developed in London, England during the second World War because the Germans were fondled bombing London, and the seniors didn't leave because they had nowhere to go. Right. And so they came up with this idea. Let's take food into them. And so the government of the United States under the older Americans Act when Johnson was president in the sixties said, oh, let's the survey said, let's try that, and it worked. Yeah. So that's that's the deal. Going back to to Brett's question,

Carol Ventresca [00:42:48]:

what what you've mentioned is when there's a critical issue, somebody's sick, somebody's fallen or whatever. But over and above that, having somebody there in the house saying hello to you every day It's that notion of loneliness, of isolation. And just that little tiny bit may be what

Chuck Gehring [00:43:08]:

keeps that person going. Apps, oh, there's no question. Every survey -- Yeah. -- says that. And 1 of the weird things we do that people may not be aware of, This the number 1 program that Meals on and we're local. We report to a local board. Everybody Meals on Wheels does not have a national controlling organization. It just happens to be a well known brand. But everybody's independent. It was started by county. But We well, there there we go. There. I'm having a senior moment as to what the heck we were talking about. But you know, with meals on wheels,

Carol Ventresca [00:43:46]:

I don't even know. We were we were talking about -- -- edit this out, Brett. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's okay. That's alright. Oh, okay. I I had said about the touch, not only just when it's critical issue, but just the notion of isolation and -- Oh, thank you. Okay. 1 of the unusual programs that people don't even know we do.

Chuck Gehring [00:44:05]:

And it's the number 1 program requested by Meals on Wheels organizations in the country all wanna start is pet care. So you're saying what in god's name is that, pardon my, for it's using god's name in vain there. But but the point is this. People give part of their meal to the pet to keep it because they're to the point they can't carry the 50 pound bag of dog food out of the store. Right. They can't afford to take it to the vet or get it to the vet. But that pet, I always like to say the pet is the social worker. Depression consular, and the security device in the home. And I have stories to back this up. We don't have time today, but I have stories to back all those up. And so the pet has to be saved. So what we do is we get donated product. When we started this, we started it with no copied it off San Diego, but there's only about 7 to 8 major cities right now in the country doing a major pet care program. We could be the 1 of the largest. Again, we're we have 1200 right now. We have 18 18 routes on the weekends that do nothing but deliver pet food. It's not people food, just the pet food. And the pet food, most of it comes from Walmart, used to be thrown away into a landfill because of code dates and stuff, but this is all within code date. And now Amazon has just joined in, and a couple other folks, the I'm folks, the Calcan folks help, but a lot of its you gotta get Walmart a lot of credit. Let me tell you. For this. We probably have 8 to 10 pallets, large pallets of bags of dog food and cat food in my warehouse. But you gotta have a separate room for it because it's gotta stay away from the people food, and it can attract critters and bugs and stuff. You gotta be very careful with it. And a lot of the bags are broken. Walmart, it actually goes to and I'm not here to boost Walmart, but they're they're almost semi saint like people over there. And they appreciate what we do with it. If if the fork truck hits the bag and breaks the bag, they will duct tape together the bag, throw it on a pallet, and deliver it to us. Fabulous. And we are getting this out. It gets rebagged into bags people can use, and and it allows the person to keep the pet and you shouldn't give your Salisbury steak to the cat. It's bad for but you need to be eating it if we're giving you the food, and the cat doesn't need Salisbury steak. And And so pet food is a huge thing. It's the number 1 requested program around the country. People are trying to start it. They just don't have the space. They don't have the where the manpower and stuff. I mean, we we're lucky to have a warehouse on the west side that that controls all this stuff and stores that but pets are everything to these people. Right. Right. And -- So -- going back to that notion of isolation. So you wanna stay in your own home? It's nutrition? Exercise and and the Gering study, which is totally unofficial, is third is pets. Third is pets.

Brett Johnson [00:46:55]:

That daughter cat is amazing. But logical if you think about it. It it doesn't even need a study if you think you know? And so the gearing study is official. Absolutely.

Chuck Gehring [00:47:05]:

Come on. We're naming it official. It's official for what I mean. Come on. It's it's common sense. 1 quickie story. 1 quickie story. I'll get out of this very quick. This woman had She took her hearing aids out every night to go to bed. She was by herself, had 1 cat, and had left the oven on. With something on the top on the stove and just forgot about it. You know? It fell asleep, was elderly, and wakes up a couple hours later, and the cat is literally standing. And I know you can't see me because this is podcast, but the feet are on her head, on her face. Mhmm. So if the cat could talk, the cat was saying, if you wanna die, fine, but you're getting me out of it. Okay? And but she woke up because the cat's on her it's true story. Sure. On her face, sees the smoke, and gets out. Calls you know, 911 had a flip phone and got the cat and her out. And had she just stayed asleep She would have died -- Mhmm. -- that cat saved her life. Yeah. And she she said that to us about a million times. A cat saved my life. And we but even we got a little blind guy on the west side who shouldn't describe him like that. He's a lovely man. But he's got 3 mixed breed dogs, and they are very mixed breed. Little dogs, they are not trained in anything. He gets up to come to the door because I take food out to him once a while. He has he has his door open, but he has screen door. And you see, when he gets up out of the chair to come to the door, 3 dogs get on either side of the legs like guardrails and walk with him to that door. Mhmm. They they're not pile up dogs. They've never been trained. But they know what's going on. They know what he needs. So he he's he's they're their pack. Yeah. It's their pack. Yeah. So there are many ways to we're very blessed here in Central Ohio again, and that we've got 18 routes on weekends delivering to hundred 1200 pets to allow the people to keep and we pay a little bit of vet bills too. Wonderful. So it's good. But you gotta do it. So there's another program that I love that

Carol Ventresca [00:49:07]:

I we I wanna talk about. It's sort of a don't wanna say it's an offshoot of Meals on Wheels, but it's another look at meals with your friends. So you have Carrie's Cafe, and you had also mentioned that there are congregate settings at different areas. I used to volunteer for 1 of our other senior facilities up in Delaware County. I have to give it a shout out to Source Point. That's my my neighborhood. Yeah. And so I used to go and have lunch. Yeah. So tell us about Carrie's Cafe, which is named after Carrie Black. Yeah. We actually have about 25 right now. I think we just are opening our 26 dining center. They're generally in places where people

Chuck Gehring [00:49:49]:

live, but ours is in our building, and we will transport people into it. But it provides not only the meal, but socialization. So they're doing activities, but they're meeting people. I mean, they're exchanging phone numbers and they're calling each other at night. I mean, it gives them a life. Right. And things like that. So it's a very important thing. And it is part of that. But I I was talking to a major city that had 22 dining centers. This is a West Coast major city shall remain nameless. And that 22 dining centers. And the executive director was saying to me, well, we've decided that when COVID gets done, we're just not opening them back up because they're too tough to run. They cost a lot of money. Well, yeah. Yesterday, at our place, we had the we had our client fashion show, which we do twice a year. We have other things. And some of the clients were modeling, and it was it's just the greatest thing you've ever seen. And we you know, we can hold 300 people to 400 people in our place, and we're very blessed to have that. But these congregate dining facilities are very important. And, actually, we actually hear, which is an unusual thing, we have the oldest Asian feeding program in the country, doctor Yong Chen Liu, Emeritus professor of statistics at Ohio State University, started this thing years ago, and he works a lot on the the Asian festival here in town has. But they started this program 27 years ago, so we actually use a couple of Asian restaurants. Here in town where the people can go. And sometimes we transport them in and get a very traditional meal. Fabulous. Seaweed soup or something like that. Very traditional so they can think about where -- Right. -- what they used to get. Mhmm. And we also operate with a few Somalia restaurants here in town because we have a lot of small immigrants, as you know. But, again, these programs, let me just say this for the 80 fourth time, if you go, don't think that this occurs in every city in the country. I get people call me all the time. Well, who's you getting in this city? Right. It doesn't exist. They there might be pieces of programs. There might be a Meals on Wheels program that's gonna tell you hey, it's 5 bucks a meal. And what we tell people, the area agency on agings -- Mhmm. -- there is 1 of those established by the government with the older Americans, Americans, wonderful people. There's 1 of those for every county in the country. Now ours here in Franklin is down on South High Street, but it covers Franklin, all counties touching Franklin. But they have people. You can Google. If you're 1 of the kids listening to this and you got parents aging, you Google area agency on aging dash whatever -- Right. -- city. Right. And they've got people that will sit on the phone with you and tell you what's available in that location. Right. And that's very important because if mom's somewhere else, you might have to bring mom to Central Ohio to get more services. There might not be services where mom is or ones that they get. And we started a program called I wrote something called how to take care of mom and dad years ago. And we've done that for hundred and 50 places. I mean, it's all major corporations, churches, whatever. And it's what do you do now to get ready for this? You know, I think that

Carol Ventresca [00:52:56]:

that is really what we try to get across here on the podcast. You don't know what you don't know. Mhmm. And here are our experts to tell you not only what's going on in Central Ohio, but to make sure that we provide the resources for around the country. So we will do that on our show notes when we post this this episode and talk about who you know? Okay. So you live in in Colorado.

Chuck Gehring [00:53:22]:

Who do you call? Well -- And here are the here are the websites that'll tell you to call. -- what's available there. Right. And I always tell you, if you're gonna move mom and dad here to be close to you, check out the count because the county's even around central Ohio don't all do the same thing. They don't all have like, we have the help at home program, which is home makers who go in and actually clean, do laundry, home health aids are abating you. That program exists, but most of the time, it's 24 to 34 dollars an hour for that service. We can provide it for free if you qualify -- Right. -- from an income and a needs standpoint, and that doesn't exist in other places. So you gotta check out where you're gonna move mom and dad too. And, you know, I get all those calls all the time. But what we do at how to take care of mom and dad in this this program I wrote a lunch and learn type of thing. But it's very simply, it's what can you do now? Mhmm. And do you know where your parents assets are? Do you know where paperwork is? Do you know? Do they even have a will? Do you blah blah blah, etcetera, etcetera? Because they always have those lists on TV. And in the newspaper and stuff, it said, here's the 10 most stressful things in a person's life. And there are things like getting married or divorced or job change or moving. Well, I think number 1 is gotta be your parents just fell, or you just found out that mom doesn't remember any thing. Right. And I just think that is the most stressful thing ever. And I've I've got 20, almost 30000 clients with it, but I've got a mom and a dad. I had a mom and a dad until they passed away that went through this, and we went through it with their dementia. And I'll tell you, you gotta if you wanna cut your stress, figure out now what you can do. How can I prepare now? Where does dad keep the the will and the house dean. Mhmm. Does he have ADD 02:14, which is discharge papers because you can get a lot of veterans benefit. Get all that stuff organized now and it will really cut your stress down. I mean, incredible

Carol Ventresca [00:55:20]:

stress cut. Maybe we'll do another podcast on that someday. Well and, actually, we have a podcast on that someday. Well and, actually, we have a podcast with 1 of our local lawyers that does elder law, and we'll get you guys together. Yeah. And we've talked about that. We do wanna do. Yeah. Well and and Chuck, Chuck,

Brett Johnson [00:55:33]:

too. That's how I sort of got into aging services is taking care of my parents. So, you know, I think when when you've been through it, it listen to the people who have been through it. They're gonna give you some really good tips. So -- Yeah. Yeah. Thank you. So take a break real quick. We covered a little bit of help at home right there that you covered right there. Maybe we just let it go if if that was the same answer, you know, in regards to For the next question. So how about if I jump to yours, Carol -- Okay. -- about the the programs you've you know, taken under we talked a little bit about that, but at the same time, I I do wanna focus on what has come into the the umbrella of LCA. So -- Okay. -- let me do that. So -- Okay. So LifeCare Alliance has taken on some new programs over the years. We touched upon it a little bit earlier in the podcast, expanding your mission and geographic location, of course, too. So talk about the other programs and the, gosh, the seniors senior farming partners,

Chuck Gehring [00:56:23]:

CODA -- Yeah. -- wellness programs. My gosh. Let let's talk about that. Well, what we do, and we've always done this at least last couple of decades, is we look at the client and say, what do we need to do for you to solve the ultimate goal of life care alliance, which is to keep you independent in in your own home for as long as you are. What do you need to accomplish that. Why do you need a meal? Maybe you need a nurse once in a while. Maybe you need something else. So we've taken on some other agencies. To save money, basically, to get more services to more people at less cost. Because, again, there's only 1 building. There's only 1 accounting department, things like that. But the point is, these were all services that the clients needed.

Brett Johnson [00:57:07]:

So -- You know, with every program you added, when I heard it in the news, it did it made sense. Well -- Knowing the mission's like, well, that makes sense in the account. -- 1 diagnosis

Chuck Gehring [00:57:17]:

of the meal clients is diabetes. And you just half the clients, half the meal clients have type 2. Type 1, you know, you get as a a young person. Usually, you're insulin dependent. Then type 2, you get naturally as you age because you're not exercising. You're eating poorly, things like that. So the half the clients have typed too. So over the years, we'd call people, hey. Can you come out and counsel people? No. Don't have the resources for etcetera, etcetera. So in Central Ohio diabetes back around 20 16, 20 17, they were having some financial problems said we're not a big agency. We ought to merge with somebody. They knew we were interested. They looked around and ended up with us. Well, now we've got all their people stayed, basically. And they're consoling our people, and they're having tremendous success at getting people off the drugs. Like, you know, if you get type 2 the first thing you watch all these and please don't run to the store to get Ozempic tonight and things like that because you're not gonna find it anyway. It's not weight loss magic, but it's not out there right now because people found its weight. It can help you lose weight, but it helps with type 2 diabetes and things like that. But the first thing I usually do is on metformin, which is this little 4 dollar drug pill you take. And but the way we stay off waiting list is is Oftentimes, as we tell people, is we prevent you from needing us. So our work, especially a lot of our nurses work, our dietitians work, is to keep you educated and help you through whatever you got and keep you off the pills and off type 2 diabetes, etcetera, etcetera. So that you don't need us. So our dietitians are counseling couple dietitians are counseling, like, a hundred and 20 people a month on average, and they're getting people healthier. And it's not rocket science sometimes. It's just you know? But my mom and dad, you know, we had meat and potatoes every night. Right? We didn't know any different, but, you know, you can't have pie every night. You can't do this. You and if you're sitting watching TV, do leg lifts while you're sitting in the bar collabs or There's little things like that that make humongous difference. So all these additions we did were designed to ultimately solve the mission of the agency, which is keep you independent in your own home and really prevent you from needing us and that keeps our numbers down and keeps you off waiting list. And I'm very proud I think our people should get get medals They've done a fabulous job over the years of keeping people healthier and not even needing our services. Maybe they thought they needed our services, but with a month of hell, Maybe they suddenly didn't need our services anymore. They could take care of themselves. So all this stuff is designed and taken on just that. The farmer's market -- Yeah. Because you you empower your clients, which is great. Yeah. Farmers's market is to just get access to healthy produce in the summertime. Mhmm. The wellness programs course, and impact safety helps with domestic violence and safety issues, which 30 percent of seniors have, and we could never figure out how to address that. So That's how we address it now. Mhmm. Wow. Good. Good. Wow. Just another break. The next question's on wait lists.

Carol Ventresca [01:00:19]:

Okay. Any I think we've covered that. Oh, yeah. You run it out of time? Okay. Well, no. I'm fine. Yeah. But you said 45 minutes. Oh, yeah. We're we're good. Well, we don't wanna we don't wanna

Brett Johnson [01:00:29]:

answer the same question we've already did earlier, which happens a lot in our podcast. We do this all the time. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Go right well, you want me to jump into staffing then? Is that what we're talking about? Out,

Chuck Gehring [01:00:41]:

exacting programs -- Can I give sure? -- volunteers? Is that 1 -- Sure. Sure. Sure. Or am I missing something? -- great if you did volunteers.

Brett Johnson [01:00:49]:

Yeah. Right? Go ahead. Okay. I think. Yeah. Okay. So so staffing your programs and you've got either paid staff or volunteers has to be a continual challenge especially well, COVID, I'm sure, was major, but seemed to now we're kinda coming out of that. But, you know, tell us about your great staff. I you're volunteer driven. You've talked about already. What do you do to retain a good staff, and and what's the role of volunteers?

Chuck Gehring [01:01:14]:

Well, retaining the staff, you try to be professional with them and respect them and treat them nice and pay them a decent wage. 1 of the reasons we lost money as an agency last year is we've been raising wages to the point that, especially amongst the hourly folks who are lower paid, maybe in food production or maybe in the help at home realm and things like that. We've had to really increase pay, to be competitive. But we're happy to, and they've hung around, and they realize we try to remind them often that You know, this is not working for company x. When you go home at night, you will have changed somebody's life. And there is no we get story after story, day after day, about people calling us saying, boy, I just don't know what I would have done without you and something like that. So we try to do the best we can. Our senior staff, especially, who are the leaders of our agency have really hung around during COVID, and it was tough because everybody was pretty tired. And, I mean, we've worked hard. I have never worked this hard in for 3 years in my life, and I've I've been working for 40 some years now. I mean, it's never been like this. But we're getting it done and people are staying because they see the outcome and they see what they're doing and but we try to be as competitive as we can. We pay as much as everybody else know. But we are close. The role of volunteers is if we didn't have our volunteers, we you wouldn't be talking to me. I would be fired, and we would be out of business. We would we have about 240 staff, about half or full time, half or part time to do all this stuff. The rest if we didn't if we had to hire people though to deliver the meals that take over for the volunteers, we'd have to have 12 to 1400 people. Which means we'd be gone. Right. We couldn't afford it. And the VEELS on Wheels program, especially was designed to be delivered by a volunteer. We can train you in 20 minutes and out you go. And it's fun, and you can take your kids with you, and the dog can be in the car as long as you keep it away from the bags of food and stuff like that, and people have a great time with it. And but the volunteers are just we would be out of business with it just doesn't work. So we do champagne in Logan counties. Champagne, his or being a and at Logan has Bell fountain. It's just just northwest of here, basically, those 2 counties. In 20 14, the agency that run that for years. And on a Wednesday, the executive director called their board chair and said, we can't make payroll Friday. They shut down and went broke. They had nothing. The clients were calling the police department. This is why the Bell fountain police department has a route. As volunteers. They go out in the uniforms with the guns and the whole thing and the cars, and they deliver meals because they got called during this time. And said, well, if I give you 20 bucks, can you go to Kroger's? And, you know, this it's not what they do. Yeah. I mean, they couldn't do that, but they the people didn't know what to do because this agency had gone broke. And we see this all across the country. 1 out of 6 meals on Wheels groups in the country has gone broke in the last 10 years, and it's the numbers growing quickly. So we were asked by the state, could you take it over? We did. And we've helped Champagne Logan ever since. But let me give you the numbers. So they were buying they didn't make their own meals because they didn't have a way. They didn't have a kitchen. You gotta have an industrial kitchen. You gotta have volume to do this stuff. And they were buying the meals from a restaurant. They were fine meals, but they were paying the restaurant about 4 bucks a meal at the time back in 20 14. They were getting reimbursed by the government 4 bucks a meal. You were already at 0. Mhmm. Then they didn't have volunteer coordinators and things like that, and they thought volunteers were hard to so they used all paid drivers. You're now in the hole. They got grants to buy cars. Great. But then you had to change the oil and buy gas. Farther in the hole. Do we see why they went broke? Right. And if you're not using we've got this model we talk about. If you're not using volunteers, if you're not fundraising independently, 33 percent of our money comes from private and corporate and donations and grants. If you're not fundraising, You've gotta have a little money in the bank. You've gotta do things like social enterprise. Like, we have a catering company to bring in money to the agency. I don't get the profits that goes to pay for people. And things like that. That's and these mergers that if you're doing those things, you're you can you're good. If you're not, you're dead -- Mhmm. -- as an agency. So the volunteers are everything. And Champagne and Logan, because they didn't have any volunteers, frankly, is why they went out of business. Alright. And if we didn't have volunteers, you wouldn't be talking to me. Right. Right. So I also have to give a shout out to the LifeCare Alliance Board

Carol Ventresca [01:05:50]:

who are volunteers because my cousins on the board -- Who's that? -- and Earl Leveer. Oh, gosh. Yes. I know that. Yes. And and who's And Earl Levere's mother is also another Carol of interest. Oh, that has the same name. I have I to give a shout out to Earl, and I can't wait to send him the link to this to tell him that I talked about him. But but again -- He's our board treasurer.

Chuck Gehring [01:06:14]:

I saw that. -- and a large attorney in town. He's a big time not large physically, but a big time attorney in town, and he's very helpful and been on our board for a long time. And as I just talked to him today, and he's very helpful to us. Yes. He is. He's a wonderful, wonderful person.

Carol Ventresca [01:06:30]:

And but as with boards, They are critical in in the structure of a nonprofit. So for our listeners, maybe Volund cheering as a Mealson Wheels driver is not an opportunity, but your local nonprofit

Chuck Gehring [01:06:46]:

may need critical board members. So always keep that in mind. Or committee members or whatever and things like that. And it's it's just yeah. Call. And if you don't get an immediate boy, I got an opening for you because sometimes we don't have opening. But, you know, we'll get to you. Trust me. And there's something you can be doing. Right. Like our the front desk at our cancer clinic is run, which is when you come in by volunteers. And, basically, you come in, here comes the client. It's like, I need you to fill out these 3 sheets of paper. You're at a cancer clinic. You know? You're might have a screening or something with a professional. So you need to fill out something, and they handle that kind of stuff. And we have volunteers that run the dining centers. We have volunteers everywhere. The

Carol Ventresca [01:07:27]:

majority of them by far are in Meals on Wheels. Well and for all of those job seekers out there -- Yeah. -- volunteering is an credible way to gain

Chuck Gehring [01:07:36]:

some experience that you may not have had before or hone some skills or update your skills. So And we -- -- consider that. And we see some boards that are really asleep at the wheel. It's really it's not about your resume. Sometimes it's about, do you really wanna help and provide advice? And by saying token, if you have a an executive director like me, and I'm telling you, well, I don't really need to listen to you or I don't need your advice. Don't worry about it. We got it handled. Probably find somebody new -- Right. -- to that job. Champagne and Logan that I just talked about a minute ago. Let me that quick story is the date and paper because they're out there that way, and they followed up with the board chair who was a business guy and just kept pow asking him, well, how did you not know you were gonna go broke this week because it was Wednesday. They found out they couldn't make payroll on Friday. How'd you not know? He finally says this is the board chair, and I'm sure it was embarrassing to him. Well, we hadn't seen financial statements in 18 months. Oh. If if my board did not see financial statements for 18 months, you wouldn't I would have been gone after 2 months. Oh my gosh. Yes. And, I mean, as board members, they need people who have those skill sets, and you don't have to be you know, number 1 is CPA to figure out the financial statements. A lot of them are very simplistic, especially smaller groups. So smaller groups need you badly, and they just need your brainpower. You know? Boards are more than just giving money to the organization. We need I always tell the board members, we need your brains. Right. And we try to throw at the meetings into discussion topics and try to throw things at them and say, you know, what do you think about this? Mhmm. What would you do? And and you get good responses. Exactly. And that goes right into my next question. What are the future plans? What's life care alliance got

Carol Ventresca [01:09:19]:

kind of in the in the trenches and working towards

Chuck Gehring [01:09:23]:

for a new goal. Well, staying in business was always a good 1. For another hundred and 25 years. We're a hundred and 25 years old. But what's gonna happen in 20 23 is it's you're gonna see it around the country before you see it here, but you're gonna see it here at the end of the year, this Medicaid cliff. Mhmm. So when president Biden announced on May eleventh that the co COVID is no longer a national health emergency. That triggered in Medicaid. And, you know, there's Medicare folks which is the insurance for seniors, but then there's Medicaid that covers people who are basically low assets for people. That triggers in Medicaid that you had to get Rita authorized. Because what they did during COVID, they kinda opened it up a little more and took in some people that maybe we're on the border, maybe wouldn't have qualified. But now because of COVID, they couldn't get out. They'd lost their supports. They needed to help. Well, now it's coming back to reauthorizing you and seeing how you are. Because we have to reassess clients depending on the funding source at least every 6 months sometimes every 3 months. And because people get better. If they're on our meals and they learn how to cook for themselves, they might not need us after so many months. And we see the especially with hospital patients all the time. They come out of the hospital. They might be with us for 8 to 20 weeks, and then they don't need us anymore. So that's great. And so this COVID cliff is happening. So I we had a lot of people in for an event yesterday, and clients and I was talking to some of them, and I said from the stage, I went up at the end, and I said, remember, if you're getting Medicaid, you have 90 you have till August seventh, to re or August ninth, I think, to reauthorize yourself in Medicaid. And I got more questions after that. Well, how do I do that? Well, how does that work? Mhmm. And I said, do you have somebody? They all have case managers. They all have somebody they talk to in the Medicaid office. You need to call them. And get reauthorized. It's not automatic, and frankly, the volume is too great. They're not gonna get to everybody because on in that second week of August, you're gonna get cut if you're not reauthorized, and they don't know maybe you don't need it anymore. And and I think we all want in the country. We hear about this all the time. Hey. If you don't need the services, it's not welfare. Let's get off of them. Right? And sometimes people do get better, especially people that had temporary issues. And I hate to call cancer a temporary issue, but cancer something, if you get through the treatments, OSU and Ohio health can fix a lot of stuff anymore. And and you know, you get through your 4 to 6 months of cancer treatments, maybe you're good then. And off your run, well, you don't need us anymore. Right. So you don't need those services and things like that or rents paid or utilities paid. So this cliff is coming. You're gonna see it around the country You're gonna see people, and there was money that came out through the American Rescue Act and care's money to and we had some of it to pay rents and utilities for people. That stopped that's stopping after this year. I can tell you here in Frank, there just didn't any more money coming out. So people suddenly are gonna have to cover all these costs. Good luck. What's changed for them? Now maybe they've got a job at a good employer that suddenly is paying them more money, and they're making a nice wage now, and they're good. But maybe they're not. Right. And with rent having taken huge leaps -- And utility prices go up, I mean, everything costs more. Right. So and, you know, they're not buying as nutritious of food maybe at the grocery store because it costs more, so they buy something cheaper that's You know? Right. Yeah. You can't all be college students living off ramen noodles. Right? Right. Exactly. And and, you know, we did that because we were 20 years old. You know, when you're 80, it's not the same deal. Yeah. Exactly. So you gotta have this. So you're gonna see this cliff coming. So that's the near term. Not happen. Long term is endowment. From my perspective, we've done an endowment campaign recently and been able to put a little bit of money in the bank are not we are not Ohio State University, and they're wonderful people. I'm a grad. But we are we don't have an endowment like they have. We have a few bucks in the bank. But you've got to have some bucks in the bank to be able to take these extra people -- Mhmm. -- as we go forward. So long term, we'd like to build that up and just make sure, you know, I'm not gonna be around forever. And, you know, not that I'm anything to write home about anyway. They probably wanna get rid of me. But, you know, I'm not gonna be around forever. We gotta make sure we're set up for the future. We got the right staff there to to manage. This is a complicated company. Let me just tell you, I've worked in for profits. This is about the most complicated place. I work for Anheuser Busch, and this is a more complicated place. I think a lot of days than Anheuser Busch. And and it it's just a lot of tentacles out there, a lot of different geographic areas, a lot of different needs. And it's a complicated deal, and we've gotta make sure. And we've talked about this in Columbus. We have a group of some of the larger agency leaders who get together ever, ever couple of months. And the big thing we're talking about is how are we training the next generation? If you've noticed when the person retires, they often hire outside the agency why don't we have people inside that can be trained to take over these jobs and properly trained and off your run? Right. And so there's a lot of work to be done in that area. It's all stabilization stuff, and sustainability is the word we hear all the time is how can we are these programs we have sustainable?

Carol Ventresca [01:14:51]:

And if they're not, some agencies are saying, well, we can't keep them anymore. Well and I I, you know, I've I've been in private industry. I work for government. I worked for the university and for nonprofit, and I have to say nonprofit work is the hardest but the most fulfilling in terms of knowing that every day you make a difference in your world. Absolutely. 1 of the things that we've looked at is in in the aging agencies is how do we convince young people that going into an aging career path is a good idea.

Chuck Gehring [01:15:24]:

And and something that they can really make a great career with. Well, it it's interesting, the modern generation. I've got 4 kids and 10 grandkids. That are that are the oldest grandkids is just 11, though. So it got a ways to go, but I am encouraged by kids in school nowadays. Mhmm. There's a lot of kids we hear about the bad stuff. But there's a lot of kids that really wanna make a difference. They really do. You know? And my father's way he made a difference, he got he went into the army and fought in the second World War. I mean, that was their contribution. Hopefully, we don't have that. Right. But there's a lot of kids that are looking. And kids, I mean, people 25 and under, really. I mean, they're pardon me for calling you a kid, but There's a lot of people out there looking for something different in their life. They wanna make a difference. And we are you know, you're not gonna be the wealthiest person in the world, but we pay competitive wages. Mhmm. And, you know, if I hire an accountant tomorrow, I've gotta pay a reasonable amount or nobody gonna come. Right. So it's there are ways out there to help, and it's worth exploring. I mean, I never thought I'd be sitting in this chair ever. But 22 years of this at LifeCare Alliance. And I can't I am so honored and privileged to do this job every day, and I'm just luck. I work very hard at it because I don't wanna mess it up. And because there's too many people counting on us, and we are but if you're out there, you can make a huge, huge difference as a young person, whether it's Maybe you just volunteer. Maybe 1 Saturday a month, you go out and deliver meals or something. I mean, that makes a difference because we package you together with a whole lot of other people, and good stuff happens. So There's a lot of people looking, though, for jobs in that in our world now, and I think that's great. And,

Brett Johnson [01:17:05]:

hopefully, they'll continue to come out and do it. Great. Right? I think he just gave us our words of wisdom right there.

Carol Ventresca [01:17:12]:

I don't know. Chuck may have more words in wisdom. But you wanna leave us with. Anything else you wanna make sure our audience remembers from today? Well, if you're here in if you're listening in Central Ohio,

Chuck Gehring [01:17:23]:

Know that Life Care Alliance is here to help you. If you're somewhere else, call your area agency on aging and get ahead of the problem. You know, if you've got parents or even for yourself, for yourself, you need to get prepared for this. Unfortunately, we're all gonna die. We're all getting old, and we're all gonna die someday, which I know is a real downer to end this on. But you've got to prepare for this, and you gotta let people know what's going on and get your paperwork in order and get your plans in order. Let people know what you want and and figure that out and start planning it's more than buying a long term care policy. Mhmm. Yeah. And those are expensive anyway. It's how do I and I know we all are trying to retire early and things like that, but you know, you can make such an incredible difference in your I am not a I could not go to Africa and be in the bush and help people in darkest, poorest Africa. I just couldn't do that. I don't think. But I'm able to do this. And I I the saints that are doing that work right now are as a whole another story. But I can't go to some third world country. We're not asking you to do that necessarily. You can do something in your town or area to in the third world countries. Trust me. They need a lot of help too. But, you know, you can just go in your town and deliver a meal on wheel on a Saturday. I mean, it's not rocket science. It's not hard, but you will change somebody's life. Absolutely.

Carol Ventresca [01:18:50]:

Oh my goodness. Chuck, thank you. I we can't thank you enough for this wonderful conversation. Listeners, you know, this is been an amazing experience. Make sure that you check the website when we publish this episode. You are gonna have resources locally and nationally that you'll be able to use in your particular area. But first, let's thanks to our guests Chuck Gehring, who is the president and CEO of LifeCare Alliance, for joining us today. Listeners, thank you for joining us. Don't forget to check the website for show notes at looking forward hourway dot com. It'll give you all the information and resources that we discussed today. And we're looking forward to hearing your feedback on this episode and all of our episodes.