Marvin: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly,

Marvin: and we're back with another Southwest Virginia Fishing Report with Matt Riley. How you doing, Matt?

Matt: I'm doing well, Marvin. How are you?

Marvin: As always, just trying to stay out of trouble, and we were talking before we

Marvin: started recording, and it sounds

Marvin: like musky season's winding down and smallmouth season is revving up.

Matt: Yep um that's that's

Matt: for sure we've had uh certainly the last

Matt: three four days of help with that you know we've

Matt: had some had some 70 75 degree

Matt: days and water temps are sliding pretty

Matt: quickly um and uh you know what i look for on the what i look for on the musky

Matt: front usually is about that like consistent 50 to 52 degree water tone um for

Matt: them to kind of at least get it in their.

Matt: Their uh little brains about spawning um

Matt: but uh you know more than anything it's

Matt: just it's from from my perspective it's a scheduling decision

Matt: you know i'm going to make the jump to smallmouth it's it's kind of it's kind

Matt: of tough to ride musky with the very bitter end and then and then hop on the

Matt: smallmouth train because typically what happens is the muskie fishing starts

Matt: to get a little more challenging as we get closer to spawn time,

Matt: and the smallmouth fishing can be fantastic.

Matt: So I tend to make the jump a little conservatively a little earlier than maybe

Matt: I need to, but it just helps everybody, I think.

Matt: And, you know, all of our other in the state of Virginia, other than the Shenandoah

Matt: River, all of our river muskie fisheries are being sustained by natural reproduction at this point.

Matt: So, you know, if it's easy to leave them alone and let them do their things

Matt: for a month or so and, you know, hopefully get some more fish out of it,

Matt: then that's what we're going to do.

Marvin: Yeah, there you go. And so obviously we're shifting to kind of a pre-spawn smallmouth.

Marvin: And I know we've talked about this before in previous years,

Marvin: but, you know, what should anglers expect and, you know, what should their approach be?

Matt: Yeah, you know, spine time is always a, it's always a, you know.

Matt: Two steps forward one step back kind of progression um

Matt: water temps are definitely on the on the upward

Matt: slide but you know we with these

Matt: 75 degree days i mean certain places we could see like

Matt: mid 50s temperatures this week um and

Matt: then you know we'll get a little bit of a cold snap and you know for the most

Matt: part our fish are going to wait until mid-april or so to spawn we've got correct

Matt: photo period and usually you know pretty rock solid 60 degree temperatures um but it's uh.

Matt: You know the pre-spawn period's a an interesting um

Matt: kind of seeding situation you do have water counts um that affect activity but

Matt: you also have um kind of the hormonal like instinct driven and feeling that it's,

Matt: you know, telling them that they've got this big event coming.

Matt: It's going to be a big tower expenditure and they need to, you know,

Matt: females need to build up egg masses and energy reserves and the males need to do the same thing.

Matt: Because when a male goes on a nest in mid-April, you know, he'll be there for

Matt: a couple weeks to a month, not really eating a lot, just more or less defending his progeny.

Matt: And so they, they both need some, some extra, extra reserves.

Matt: So, um, there's a lot of heavy feeding going on ahead of the spawn and that's,

Matt: you know, why the fish tend to be fat.

Matt: Um, you tend to get the bigger fish more than a lot of smaller fish because,

Matt: you know, bigger fish have, um, you know, they need to eat more to build up more.

Matt: And uh so the uh cooler temperatures and you know weather and as we get into the the kind of.

Matt: Low to mid 50s um day-to-day weather

Matt: doesn't necessarily affect them as much

Matt: as it would say in the summertime when they've got

Matt: three or four months to sit around and eat and not think about what's coming

Matt: um so you know i mean there's plenty of days in march and april you're starting

Matt: out in 20 some degree weather snow and rain and all that kind of thing and but

Matt: uh you know just know that that they have to eat, and now is kind of the time.

Marvin: Yeah, and I know you love streamers, but is it kind of a low and slow game?

Marvin: Or if you get those warmer days, you kind of fish the warmer,

Marvin: shallower water with a little sunlight on it, maybe with a streamer,

Marvin: just to kind of see if anybody's home?

Matt: Yeah, all of the above. The major food sources I look at this time of year are

Matt: not necessarily food sources,

Matt: but just water column uh areas i

Matt: guess you know you've got the bottom is always going to be important because

Matt: um water's still a little

Matt: cold and the fish are potentially coming out

Matt: of winter depending on on when in the year you're talking about um

Matt: so to that end you know big like crayfish creature

Matt: you kind of lures and flies and and

Matt: uh are always going to be important and

Matt: and move them pretty slow on the bottom and then you

Matt: know mid column stuff and even even all

Matt: the way up to not that far under the surface you

Matt: know some stuff that floats or sustains um depending

Matt: on how deep the water is you're fishing um but but generally bait fishy and

Matt: cray fishy stuff and and i'm gonna one for the fun factor and two for the ease of fishing for clients.

Matt: I'm always going to.

Matt: Pick, probably start with a streamer. Certainly if you have two people in the

Matt: boat, you can bracket the bite with a crayfish or a more active baitfish presentation.

Matt: But if it's just me, I'm probably going to pick a streamer up first and just

Matt: kind of play with it and see what I can get them to do.

Matt: Because it's more fun. It's a little easier.

Matt: And there are ways that you can

Matt: can really feel that out you know flies that that do suspend

Matt: pretty well that you can you know

Matt: you can either move real fast you know

Matt: jerk strip them or just really move them

Matt: um or you know give them a couple of

Matt: hard yanks and then pause them for like four or five seconds and

Matt: see if anybody taps them you know there's that kind of that kind of gradient

Matt: will allow you to figure out where the the bites at if if if you're getting

Matt: fish to chase and crush flies then obviously keep rolling with that if uh if

Matt: they need a five second pause and there's a super light bite you know maybe.

Matt: Maybe see how long you get away with that maybe see if

Matt: it progresses as the day goes on the water warms

Matt: up um or maybe consider dropping it

Matt: down a little bit and seeing if you're not getting more takes on the

Matt: bottom you know so it's just kind of feeling

Matt: them out and day-to-day things can be different and you

Matt: know just not uh the other

Matt: thing that's extremely important this time of year is understanding that

Matt: you know if you're doing a six

Matt: mile float and you don't catch a fish for two hours

Matt: um you need to be real critical about

Matt: the habitat you're fishing um and if

Matt: if you run into to a pot of fish and catch three or

Matt: four of them in five minutes take note of that too and

Matt: what habitat you're catching them out of because they do move around

Matt: quite a bit this time of year um and they will not be everywhere so um kind

Matt: of qualify your fly choices and um you know tactical change decisions with what's

Matt: what's going on what you're seeing you know um Um,

Matt: because, uh, it's, it's not always the fish.

Matt: Um, sometimes you're just not on them.

Marvin: Yeah, God. And it dovetails. Well, we've got a question from Ben and he kind

Marvin: of wanted to get kind of maybe, you know, not pre-spawn specific,

Marvin: but, um, you know, kind of in general, kind of your thoughts around how you

Marvin: approach, you know, your fly change progression when things aren't working.

Matt: Yeah. Um, that's a, that's a, that's a good question. and it's one that I feel

Matt: like I see maybe handled incorrectly a lot of times it,

Matt: When I'm building out a fly box, it doesn't matter what it's for,

Matt: but I would say maybe not trout.

Matt: Trout fishing in the springtime, you've got hatches, different color and size

Matt: dry flies will make a difference at times because the fish may key in on certain bugs,

Matt: and those things are going to make a big difference.

Matt: But if you're talking about a fish that is very opportunistic,

Matt: capable of, you know, I mean, this goes for just about every fish,

Matt: but talking smallmouth, musky, stripers, et cetera,

Matt: they'll eat anything from a crayfish to a, you know, eight-inch chub,

Matt: you know, to a bug on the surface.

Matt: This the where i'm building out fly locks it has more to do with building um

Matt: tools for different situations um

Matt: you know like one thing i see in musky fishing a lot is this concept of a.

Matt: Of a uh you know a kick and turn you know 90 degree profile show as a trigger

Matt: which is which which is huge, but at the same time, you don't,

Matt: you don't need like six different patterns and five different colors that all do that.

Matt: You know, you need one pretty much, um, because you also need something that's

Matt: going to swim or something that's going to get a little deeper.

Matt: It's not quite as buoyant. Um, so that you can pause for a long time and let

Matt: it suspend, you know, and I think about that when I'm building small mouth boxes too.

Matt: Um, Um, you don't necessarily need like seven different swim flies that all do the same thing.

Matt: Um, they're just going to take up time at the vice, um, stocking your box with.

Matt: So when things aren't working, it pays to have a bunch of different patterns

Matt: that do different things, you know, so crayfish that, that fish the bottom really

Matt: well, um, that sink and get down there.

Matt: You know, maybe a more lightly weighted crayfish for summertime conditions or,

Matt: or just when, you know, you want to be able to just kind of dead drift something

Matt: for a long period of time and not have it locked to the bottom.

Matt: Streamer flies mid-column flies that are going to suspend or

Matt: ones that are going to jig you know and then top water flies

Matt: are going to do different things sliders and poppers and

Matt: bugs and and then when things aren't working

Matt: you know again i guess not necessarily just talk

Matt: about pre-spawn but anytime you know you don't

Matt: want to go from one swim fly to another swim fly to another swim

Matt: fly you know you need to make a drastic significant

Matt: change in your presentation and then

Matt: take data from the feedback you get from

Matt: that you know if absolutely nothing is happening

Matt: on the surface then you know

Matt: take it down to mid column and and see what

Matt: happens absolutely nothing is happening then take

Matt: it to the bottom you know or maybe take to the bottom first you know and see

Matt: I would I would avoid that because mid columns just work on the fish in the

Matt: bottom but you know it it It pays to just ask yourself the question, what's going on?

Matt: And if they're not doing what you're currently doing, you need to do something very different.

Matt: I see in retrospect, I guess, for me, who does it a lot, that seems relatively

Matt: straightforward, but it's easy to get caught in that, you know,

Matt: well, the mergement is not working.

Matt: And so let's try a CK bait fish or let's try a game changer or something like that.

Matt: When realistically speaking, they're very different patterns,

Matt: but you know, they, they kind of fish in the same area and do a lot of the same thing, you know?

Marvin: Yeah. And I would imagine too, you kind of maybe pick the strata that you're

Marvin: fishing kind of, you know, this is an insane generalization,

Marvin: but I won't say covering water. I don't want to get in trouble for that.

Marvin: It is maybe kind of time of year, you maybe kind of pick where you start in

Marvin: the water column, you know, and it varies, right?

Marvin: Because we know in the summertime, right, more top, you know,

Marvin: pre-spawn, more bottom, and you kind of pick where you want to start,

Marvin: you know, based on that and then vary off of that.

Matt: Right and and to another point you

Matt: know which i thought that's where you're going to go with it um for a

Matt: second there um it's it's not always your fly

Matt: pattern like i said talking about pre-spawn fishing you know

Matt: it just very basically if

Matt: you're not around fish it doesn't matter what fly you're fishing you're not

Matt: going to catch them um you're not going to get chases or bumps or whatever so

Matt: if you've been floating uh you know two mile long you know just kind of even

Matt: current a couple little pockets on the bank kind of you know just,

Matt: maybe just get the heck out of there and go find some ledges or pockets or,

Matt: big boulder fields or something entirely different um

Matt: take the same fly same presentation that

Matt: you weren't getting bit on and try it in there see what happens you

Matt: know it's all about just gathering data changing the

Matt: input and seeing what the output is and and uh

Matt: trying to learn from that you know it's uh i i think in the pre-spawn space

Matt: there's a lot of this like yeah you just go out and throw a six inch bait fish

Matt: fly and crush five pounders all day and and that's it's it's a lot more more, um,

Matt: there's a lot more process and thought and understanding of the,

Matt: uh, the environment and the fish that goes into it this time of year.

Marvin: Yeah, got it. And, you know, folks, we love questions at the articulate fly.

Marvin: You can email them to me or DM, DM us on social media, whatever's easiest for

Marvin: you. And if we use your question, I will send you some articulate fly swag.

Marvin: And we're going to draw for some cool stuff from Matt at the end of the season.

Marvin: And Matt, before I let you go, uh, you want to let folks know where they can

Marvin: find you and fish with you this, uh, this summer, spring and,

Marvin: uh, you know, into the fall.

Marvin: And I imagine you're probably even booking musky for next year.

Matt: Yeah. Um, yeah, so spring, summer, early fall, um, I might have like five or

Matt: six days left on the small mouth, um, program, but you know,

Matt: things are always changing.

Matt: Um, schedules are always changing days for you up here and there.

Matt: So never be scared to ask about that. um I have I have probably booked six or

Matt: seven musky days for for next uh not next year next uh,

Matt: next season starting about mid to late october um,

Matt: So that is, it's not too early for that either, particularly if you want specific

Matt: windows, um, cause they, they do go pretty quickly.

Matt: Um, and, uh, yeah, trout stuff pretty much always available.

Matt: Um, got a couple of guys that can handle that.

Matt: And, uh, that's one of the, you know, I, I end up, uh, doing a lot of smallmouth stuff, March, April.

Matt: Um but uh it's definitely

Matt: prime time in the mountains over here i actually haven't i

Matt: haven't spent a whole lot of time doing that myself the last few years because

Matt: i've been so busy with smallmouth but uh we've got some great dry fly fishing

Matt: and some streamer fishing opportunities even on the on the mountain streams

Matt: um but that's that's always an option so um if you're interested shouldn't that give me a shout too.

Matt: And all my contact stuff's on the internet, on my website, mattrileyflyfishing.com

Matt: and just reach out however you feel best.

Marvin: Well, there you go. Well, listen, folks, it's warming up, you know,

Marvin: so, and on the East coast, I think we're kind of through fly fishing show season.

Marvin: So, you know, if the weather's nice, get out there and catch a few,

Marvin: otherwise spend some time at the vice and get ready.

Marvin: Tight lines, everybody. Tight lines, Matt.

Matt: Hey, thanks Marvin.