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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Having lost 3 of her 5 children. Our next guest is no stranger to crippling grief, and yet she inspires others to not only find peace, but to experience a life filled with joy. Hi, and welcome to the you world order, showcase, podcast where we feature life, health, transformational coaches, and spiritual entrepreneurs stepping up to be the change they seek in the world. I'm your host, Jill Hart, the coaches alchemist on a mission to help coaches and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: spiritual entrepreneurs amplify their voice, monetize their mission and get visible leveraging podcasts and the huge audience. We have over on the Gnostic TV network. Today we are chatting with Marla Grant.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Marla teaches people how to shift from the devastation of grief, of a grief event to a life filled with a sense of aliveness and joy. Most importantly, as an advanced grief recovery specialist. She can teach you the tools for life necessary to heal from any grief event.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Having experienced her own journey of renewal, after having 3 of her 5 children die, and surviving a very difficult and often dangerous 27 year marriage. She is in a unique position to help others heal. Welcome to the show, Marla. It's really great to finally get a chance to chat with you.

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Marla Grant: Thank you so much, Jill. I really appreciate the opportunity. Any chance to help others is a good one.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I like that. So I'm going to ask you the one big question I ask everybody, are you ready.

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Marla Grant: I'm ready.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Okay, what's the most significant thing in your opinion, as individuals, we can do to make an impact on how the world is going.

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Marla Grant: That's a loaded question for today.

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Marla Grant: actually, I think the most important thing is to

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Marla Grant: It's really related to also dealing with grief, and it's to be in acceptance of what what is happening around you.

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Marla Grant: and to make sure that you are

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Marla Grant: as you decide how you want to respond to things. Make sure that you are being true to yourself, and that you are, you know, focusing on self-care.

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Marla Grant: Self-care is really important. We want to make sure that we're in a place in our minds that's not chaotic and full of anxiety and stress, because when we're in the the wiser part of our mind because there's no there's no wisdom in chaos. So if we're constantly in a state of

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Marla Grant: anger or judgment, we can't tap into the part of our minds that has clear laser, focused thinking and empathy and clarity and understanding how to communicate. Well, and to do that, you have to take time to just get centered.

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Marla Grant: You can do that. I teach through positive intelligence. I teach several methods of doing that. But if you want to know just a short one. Just sit down, and you can even just listen to some calming music. But the idea is to be 100 focused on the physical, because that brings you into the present moment, where you're not worrying about the past. You're not agonizing about the future. You're just present, and the present moment is where you'll find clarity and peace.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes, that. And yes, it's just being being.

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Marla Grant: Yes, just beam. Yeah, thanks. Adam.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: That's really hard, especially when you're in the throes of

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: of going through trauma or grief.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: because there's always the what if I had, or what will happen when

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: or the unknown, and I think it's really all fear laced fear of loss, fear of

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: of the unknown, fear of what's going to happen next. So why don't we start out with? Tell us your story? Because yours is.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it's fundamental to the things that you're helping people with so.

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Marla Grant: Yeah, it it it really is. And as I begin, I you know I want to be clear that

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Marla Grant: I don't engage in what I call the grief Olympics. Yes, I have had an uncommon amount of loss. 3 of my children passed all at different ages, all from different things.

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Marla Grant: And I know that that's a lot. But I never seek sympathy because I have a really clear understanding of you know

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Marla Grant: what this was meant for.

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Marla Grant: and I am not a religious person, but I am very tapped into my my spirituality, and that has helped. That has helped a lot.

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Marla Grant: So let me just take you back to where it began. I was. I was 23, my husband and I had moved to Australia. I you know childbirth was never going to be easy for me. I had a child in 1975, and

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Marla Grant: I actually was given last rice because I got Preeclampsia. And it was, you know, so it was pretty serious. I was unconscious for 2 days. Fortunately I lived through it. He lived through it, and he's now living here in the Us. And and we are very, very close, and I'm so

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Marla Grant: happy for that. The following year I I got pregnant again. These were my baby bearing years, and I was all about it.

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Marla Grant: So this baby happened to be breech. My pregnancy was fine, and the 1st child, by the way, was C-section. This baby. My doctor decided that

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Marla Grant: she was going to let me have a trial labor.

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Marla Grant: It didn't go well, things went south at the last minute. It was not. It was not a public hospital, so emergency services were not available. And and by the time she got there I was already in full blown delivery mode, and in short, the oxygen was cut off from the baby, so he he was. He was perfectly healthy, but he he did not survive the delivery.

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Marla Grant: and I have to say, you know.

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Marla Grant: a lot of people think that when you lose an infant, either a miscarriage or a

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Marla Grant: a death like that. My baby died passed just after the delivery. That somehow is less impactful than a child that you've known, and you will hear that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Oh!

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Marla Grant: And I. And I want to mention this right now before I tell you about the other 2, because it's so important.

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Marla Grant: Grief doesn't have a timeline.

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Marla Grant: It's not a there are no stages of grief. It's not a linear process. I buried that I got pregnant just 12 weeks later with my 3rd son.

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Marla Grant: who was delivered healthy and happy, and he's still living.

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Marla Grant: But I did not really grieve that baby until

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Marla Grant: That was in 1975 in 2,008. I was sitting in a class on death and dying. This is how long grief will last if you don't address it.

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Marla Grant: and the the somebody in the in the class was talking about sort of minimizing that loss.

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Marla Grant: and I spontaneously burst into tears. And I don't do that.

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Marla Grant: certainly not in front of people, and it just all came out. And I said, You have no idea it was a crushing, massive loss. You go into the hospital 9 months pregnant.

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Marla Grant: There's other women having their babies and leaving I just even to this day. I can't describe what a devastating, empty.

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Marla Grant: vacant, disappointing feeling that was like, you know, I can still.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Your hormones, and on top of that I mean.

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Marla Grant: Oh, yeah, it was just. It was beyond it. It was in its own way. It was every bit as devastating as my other losses. So

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Marla Grant: I told you I had.

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Marla Grant: Oh, and I do want to mention this one other thing that is really important about that.

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Marla Grant: So that was in 2,008, where all that came out. Okay? So

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Marla Grant: it's important to know that I never held that baby. And I never saw the baby. So all these years

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Marla Grant: I've been not not in full nasty judgmental mode about the doctor and the nurse, but I did think they were.

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Marla Grant: I did think it was unkind of them, I mean, I've been holding that inside me for a long time until about 2 months ago, my little sister, my youngest sister, who is a nurse. She asked me about the circumstances of the baby's death. I think I said it was overseas at the time.

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Marla Grant: and she said to me, I told her, and she and it was a forceps delivery. It was just like the worst you can imagine, just a horrific natural delivery.

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Marla Grant: And she said to me. In the gentlest voice she said, you know they did you a favor.

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Marla Grant: Do you realize that because she said your baby, you would not have wanted to see your baby.

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Marla Grant: because I know.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Probably so mute, mutilated, just trying to get him out.

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Marla Grant: Yes, I know I I know that was the case.

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Marla Grant: and I I that was a life-changing moment for me to realize that. And all of a sudden

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Marla Grant: I felt this very deep compassion and empathy.

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Marla Grant: I was just writing about it yesterday.

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Marla Grant: this really deep compassion and empathy for those

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Marla Grant: caregivers, and how it must have impacted them. And now I feel I feel so much

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Marla Grant: love for them and empathy for them entirely different than I felt before.

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Marla Grant: And I did not even see the baby where the baby was buried until I went to my son's wedding in Australia many, many years later, with my youngest son, and he and I went to the cemetery, where he had been buried

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Marla Grant: in a sort of a common area for stillborn babies.

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Marla Grant: So lots of poignancy around all of that. So, anyway.

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Marla Grant: fast forward in 1982, no, sorry, 1981, I became pregnant with my daughter Nicole. And she she was very healthy, for until she was about 7 years old, between 7 and 8, and we were living overseas in the Middle East at the time, and she, we found out she was

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Marla Grant: probably had leukemia, so they sent us back to the Us. For diagnosis, and sure enough, she had. She had an adult very uncommon for a child to get it. She had an adult form of leukemia

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Marla Grant: so we went to we came here, moved to the Tampa Bay Area, and she received a bone marrow transplant

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Marla Grant: from her brother.

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Marla Grant: who was kind of the replacement baby, if I can call him that. His name is Shane. He was her donor, and she had 6 very healthy years. After that she did really well. She was a lovely, buoyant, joyous child, and she had almost perfect health for those 6 years. And then suddenly, very unexpectedly, she relapsed with a different strain of leukemia, and she died within 6 months

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Marla Grant: Now I had, after she had been born. I had her little brother, who was born in 1982 just 16 months later, and then I had my tubes tied so that I was like, Okay, this is it. And so they grew up together, and they almost. She was so tiny little waif of a thing, and he was very

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Marla Grant: robust little boys. So everybody thought they were twins, and they were so close they grew up together. They did everything together, walked to middle school together, and so that

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Marla Grant: He was quite. You know. I realized, years, years and years later

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Marla Grant: how deeply he had been impacted by her loss. Of course we talked about her all the time, and I asked him how he was, and but I did not realize until many years later.

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Marla Grant: very close to about 6 months, probably before he died.

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Marla Grant: He died. When he was 31 he took his life. He died by suicide.

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Marla Grant: We we had. We went up to see him. He lived in near DC. And his brother and I. We knew he was struggling.

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Marla Grant: and we went up to see him, and both of us came away from our time with him, after having very deep discussions, feeling like.

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Marla Grant: you know, we had talked a lot of thing about a lot of things that were important, but but one, and that he would be okay. And it wasn't just his sister, but one of the things that did come out that I tried to impress

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Marla Grant: on parents, because it's important to know this. If they have, if the if child loss involves siblings

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Marla Grant: is that the siblings will often not really tell their parents how they feel, because they think that it's going to upset them, or it's going to all of a sudden remind them of their child, I can tell you there's not a moment of the day that we're not already thinking about our child. I mean.

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Marla Grant: you know, it doesn't mean we're.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Is that your child too.

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Marla Grant: Yeah, yeah, we're not. It's not that we're, you know. I think of. Yeah, I think of my children who passed just as much as I think of my children who are still here. So it's not a sad thing, but I had no idea it was keeping him from opening up about the depth of his grief.

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Marla Grant: so I do believe that it that it contributed to his death. But he had some other sort of existential things going on, unrelated to that. That, I think, impacted his the last 6 months of his life when he just kind of

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Marla Grant: had kind of a mental breakdown, and I think he was really close to letting us know and asking for help. But

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Marla Grant: And you know, like Jill like you said, you know.

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Marla Grant: I believe that when we, before we come into this world.

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Marla Grant: we do create these contracts with each other, and there is a purpose to why we're here

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Marla Grant: to have these experiences.

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Marla Grant: and so, you know, I I have never looked back on my life and said, Why me?

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Marla Grant: I probably more often said, Why not me?

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Marla Grant: You know, because all you have to do is turn the news on or go outside, and you can see a hundred 1,000 things happening to people. So I'm not unique, you know. So

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Marla Grant: it was just a really.

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Marla Grant: you know, I can talk a little bit about how I arrived at acceptance. If you'd like me to go into that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I would like that. Yeah.

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Marla Grant: So.

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Marla Grant: So, of course, when my 1st child died

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Marla Grant: it was just a shock. It was. I just like

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Marla Grant: I just couldn't even believe it had happened. It was just so unexpected. I was really healthy, and

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Marla Grant: the baby was healthy. Everything was going well, so that was really unexpected. So I really turned towards what I teach people when I teach them the advanced, the grief recovery method, we call them Sturbs, which is short for short term, energy, relieving behaviors and one of those. It's anything that you do to replace

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Marla Grant: to get out of your head about the loss and pretend it didn't happen so for me. That was

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Marla Grant: that was getting pregnant again.

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Marla Grant: And because I got pregnant just 12 weeks after the baby died, I could focus on that. Now. I want to tell you a really quick, interesting story, and everybody out there you need to know that you have the word alchemist in your title, so this will not be surprising. There's some woo woo stuff in in my life

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Marla Grant: really interesting, but

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Marla Grant: that baby's name we named him Shane. I got pregnant 12 weeks later with a little boy.

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Marla Grant: and we also named him Shane, and I knew the moment he was born, that it was the soul of the same baby.

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Marla Grant: I knew that, and and many, many years later

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Marla Grant: a world renowned evidential medium was giving me a reading. She brought Nicole and Ryan through

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Marla Grant: the the older 2 are the ones who are born later.

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Marla Grant: And then she said to me, Is there a Is there a twin?

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Marla Grant: And I thought maybe she I had not told her anything, and I thought maybe she was talking about

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Marla Grant: the fact that Ryan had named his daughter Ryan Rene.

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Marla Grant: and she said, No, no, that's not it. And so then I told her about the baby, and she said she said, that's why I can't read him over there, because he's already back over here, and I was like, yes.

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Marla Grant: I already knew that. So

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Marla Grant: So I got through that. And then, of course, when Nicole died, I have to admit

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Marla Grant: I did. I did for a time look around because she was such a lovely child, loving, joyful, funny.

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Marla Grant: and there there were some little girls that she was that were sort of in her orbit that were not that way. And I remember thinking to myself.

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Marla Grant: Why would why would a child like Nicole die, and not that I wish this on anyone but but and somebody like that who's unkind and and you know.

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Marla Grant: seems to have these anger issues. Of course, now I know much better. It's because children who are like that are wounded because of what's going on in their lives. Now I understand that, but at the time I didn't. So I did. That was going through my mind. But I had enough presence of mind to know

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Marla Grant: I need to. I need to do some make something good of this. So I founded an organization a nonprofit called Kicking for kids, and my older son Brandon and I did. And we did a whole bunch of activities. We raised about a quarter of a million dollars and gave it away. For you know, research grants and helping send kids to cancer camp and pay for bone marrow testing.

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Marla Grant: So and I ran that for for many years it was all volunteer.

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Marla Grant: God bless all those people that helped me with that and then eventually, not too long ago, I you know we we stopped we stopped that because I was turning my attention more to helping people with grief. So there was that. And then and then, when Ryan passed

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Marla Grant: by that time, I'm like what what is going on here. One is unusual. 2 is like crazy, and 3 is just like

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Marla Grant: this just doesn't happen.

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Marla Grant: Yeah, although I have worked with a woman who lost 4 children, all of her children.

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Marla Grant: So, anyway.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Same time, I mean, I can understand if it happened at one time, like in a car accident, or something like that.

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Marla Grant: We're all different at all different times, all different calls.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yes, like.

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Marla Grant: It's very. It's very stunning. It's very stunning. So when that happens you it it kept getting my attention. I'm like, what what is this for what is going on here.

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Marla Grant: And I finally realized that that, plus

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Marla Grant: all the difficulties I'd had during my marriage that was going on during this time which I

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Marla Grant: I might touch on that a little bit in here. I've never talked about that before, but

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Marla Grant: I realized it just like came into my mind

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Marla Grant: this. That was the training ground for what you're supposed to do.

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Marla Grant: And so I went into meditation one day

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Marla Grant: and I had decided to start helping

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Marla Grant: find a formal way to do that, and I I was asked to open

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Marla Grant: the Tampa Bay affiliate of helping parents heal, which is now, I mean. At the time it was relatively small. But it's time now. It's like international with about 30,000 members.

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Marla Grant: and so I did open this group. We, I think we grew to be the largest affiliate in the organization regional affiliate. But before I started I sat down and I was in meditation, and I was asking my guides, what can I do to be as helpful as possible?

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Marla Grant: And what I immediately got back was, I mean, and this is how I know it's not my own thoughts.

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Marla Grant: They the thought comes like that. It's like implanted immediately. And the answer was, You need to get really clear about what helped you get through your losses.

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Marla Grant: And so immediately these 3 words lie into my head, and it. The 1st one was the 1st was personal responsibility, and the second was acceptance, and the 3rd one was willingness.

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Marla Grant: And I'm like, Oh, those spell paw. So I made a graphic which is on my website. If you scroll all the way to the bottom, and I when I tell people about it, nobody ever forgets Paw, because, you know, we all like visuals. So the person, the personal responsibility. Piece

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Marla Grant: means that we have to. We have to

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Marla Grant: take responsibility for our own healing. Nobody can do that for us, whether it's beginning to listen to podcasts like this, where people talk about healing methods, whether it's watching videos or or listening to speakers or reading books, whatever that is doing your own daily practice, becoming mentally fit enough

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Marla Grant: to draw yourself away from constantly thinking about the past and moving into acceptance.

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Marla Grant: That's all part of responsibility, and also accepting your behavior

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Marla Grant: in whatever transpired. Now, I'm not just talking about child loss here. Any grief event, any relationship issues, that's all. It's all part of the same thing.

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Marla Grant: and the second one is acceptance. And to me that has been the that's always the key, because until we can accept that what happened was in the past.

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Marla Grant: and that it's just what is.

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Marla Grant: and we're going to continually push back against that and all of our struggles, all of our pain.

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Marla Grant: All of our anxiety comes from not wanting to accept what's happened.

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Marla Grant: So it doesn't mean you have to like it. It doesn't mean you can't grieve. It means that.

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Marla Grant: Okay, this happened. And in the case of losing a loved one.

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Marla Grant: you can find you can find a different way

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Marla Grant: to have a different kind of relationship with them.

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Marla Grant: I absolutely have done that with my kids. And I. You know I've gotten signs from them. I talk to them all the time. They I mean.

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Marla Grant: I could show you if I could bring my screen, show you some amazing things. And the 3rd one, of course, is willingness

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Marla Grant: and willingness is all about. After you've

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Marla Grant: gotten to that acceptance place you have to be willing to heal, and especially I find this especially with some parents I call this the Mystique of Child loss. It's this, and I don't mean that in an unkind way. But

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Marla Grant: some people kind of can tend to wear that anytime. We label something.

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Marla Grant: We're in trouble. You give something a label. You can't move past it because you identify with that as who you are. It's not who you are. It's what happened in your life.

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Marla Grant: But it's definitely not who you who you are.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Comfortable with the pain.

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Marla Grant: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And they feel guilt if they don't feel that pain anymore.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Oh, Pat, move past it. They won't allow themselves to move past.

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Marla Grant: Yes, I've heard that so many times. I I actually wrote some recent things down that I read. But one person said, I'm hanging on to my grief, so that I can show my child I love them, or something very similar to that that is very common. But it's so.

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Marla Grant: It's so it's so detrimental to healing. And it's so not necessary, because this idea, this idea that that

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Marla Grant: you equate the depth of your grief to the depth of your love is just not true. There are many grief events that happen in life that do not involve love at all. You talk about children who are abused, who are neglected, who, either emotionally or physically.

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Marla Grant: as children, or, or, you know, never, never know their parents. That's a that's a form of grief, all of it on betrayal is a form of grief.

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Marla Grant: There's no love involved reciprocal love involved in that. So we have to separate those 2 and understand that our healing can absolutely happen, and there can our love never! Love never changes, it never, never changes. I do want to tell you a magic story about a big lesson I learned about that. But I want to read this this. Quote. It's on my website.

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Marla Grant: And it's about willingness. I just love this so much. It's by. I believe she's a therapist. Her name is Vienna Farron, and she said, Who are you? If your story begins to change.

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Marla Grant: do not be so loyal to your suffering that your healing doesn't stand a chance.

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Marla Grant: and that just says it in a nutshell for me. So I want to tell you about this very counterintuitive thing that happened. That you would never guess

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Marla Grant: would be a life changing thing for me. But it was

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Marla Grant: taught me a lot about the afterlife.

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Marla Grant: and just solidified everything. I was learning to believe

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Marla Grant: I was at the funeral home. We had an open casket for Nicole's service.

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Marla Grant: and I was there with my older son, and I had not seen her body since we left the hospital when when she passed.

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Marla Grant: and my son said, do you want to go up and see her? And I said, Bran, I don't know. I don't know if I can do that. I just

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Marla Grant: He took my arm, and he said, Come on, mom, and we walked up to her casket.

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Marla Grant: and I looked at her casket.

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Marla Grant: and I was like I was shocked. I I it took my breath away. I said, Oh, my God! That's not Nicole, and I kid you, not, Joel!

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Marla Grant: It was so clear to me. Her body.

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Marla Grant: It just it just looked like a wax figure, or a or a very a pale statue, and it was so clear to me that it was just a container.

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Marla Grant: and I I could almost. I have goosebumps now which tells me she's around listening to me.

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Marla Grant: I could. I could almost hear her and feel her, because it's a scientific fact that energy doesn't just die. No, she is such a vibrant, loving child that

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Marla Grant: she lived on. I've heard from her many times.

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Marla Grant: So yeah, that I would never have expected such that what normally would feel seem like a painful moment?

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Marla Grant: No, it was one of the best things I could have done.

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Marla Grant: Yeah, nobody wants to see their child's, you know, corpse. But

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Marla Grant: it was. It was a gift.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Sometimes it is really healing. I've seen corpses.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I didn't see my 1st corpse until I was much older, but when I did see it. It was really obvious that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the person isn't there anymore. It is just a container. It's it's the energy inside of us that lights us up that causes us to look and and give a feeling

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: when other people are around us that just it's just a body. It.

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Marla Grant: Yeah, yeah, we are all.

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Marla Grant: We are all spirit beings. We are just in this body. Shakespeare said it best. I think it was in Macbeth he talks about. You know we're all players on a stage. Everyone has their entrances and their exits.

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Marla Grant: And and I so believe that you know.

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Marla Grant: how are we going to play our part here?

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Marla Grant: You know the script is written, but we have choice.

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Marla Grant: can be. We can be this way, or we can be that way, and there's no, there's no judgment or condemnation. I mean, it's just like when we let our children go outside and play and interact with the world.

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Marla Grant: They're going to make mistakes.

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Marla Grant: Do we condemn them or punish them because they make a mistake? No, it's all part. It's all part of learning and growing, and I feel the very same way about our lives. You know, it just feels very obvious to me.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, we're just here to have an experience. And

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and you know, one of the

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: one of my favorite quotes is Plot twist.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Things aren't going the way you want them to go.

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Marla Grant: This is like, Oh, oh, yeah.

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Marla Grant: On the other hand, I've also seen some miraculous things happen that I never could have seen coming.

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Marla Grant: like, you know, when I've when I finally given up and said, Okay, please. You know

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Marla Grant: I give up. I don't know what else to do, and then something magically will happen.

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Marla Grant: It gets you out of a jam, or or it's a major turning point in your life that you could not possibly have seen coming. And those are, those are magic moments. I think

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Marla Grant: they're just amazing.

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Marla Grant: So we need to. We need to believe in those 2.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: or accept them as just. You know, we might not be able to explain them, but we know that they happen, and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: and we don't have to justify them. They can just be.

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Marla Grant: Yes, that's a really good point. Yeah.

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Marla Grant: I that I always tell my clients.

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Marla Grant: we need to drop this question, why, why did this happen?

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Marla Grant: The much better question to ask. We're never gonna get an answer to that. And and if even if we got an answer it wouldn't satisfy us, we would, we would say, Why, well, then, why? That

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Marla Grant: the better question to ask is, what what is this meant? For? What? What am I supposed to learn for it with from it. What what am I supposed to do with it?

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Marla Grant: What's the next step here? That's much more productive, and it also moves you into a place of

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Marla Grant: being able to be accepting, and and also

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Marla Grant: take the next step, which isn't, you know, whatever that action step might be.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And and often getting into action helps us move past the pain, because

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: grief generally involves some sort of pain, emotional pain. And when you're just sitting in that pain. It's really hard for it to get better. But when you, when you recognize that there's something else you can be doing, even if it's like walking or

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: shaking your body, or just movement.

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Marla Grant: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Allows your brain to to shift enough to get you out of that.

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Marla Grant: It is, it is, and you're exactly right. It, you know, especially in the early stages of grief, the the early, you know. Times after you've lost someone or gone through something difficult.

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Marla Grant: It's just it's just that act of putting one foot in front of the other. I mean, you know, I don't want to minimize child loss. It. I hope it hasn't come across like that that I've because I've gone through all this. But

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Marla Grant: you know it's just the small things. It's just being willing to get up in the morning and make yourself a cup of coffee.

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Marla Grant: and I just want to circle back to to your very, very 1st question.

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Marla Grant: because you're talking now about doing things you asked about what people can do right now. One of the most helpful things is we can do when we're going through grief or and let's make no mistake.

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Marla Grant: We're going through a massive grief event right now.

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Marla Grant: a collective grief event. And it doesn't matter what your politics are.

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Marla Grant: because it's impacting you, either because

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Marla Grant: your belief, your beliefs are being shredded or you are losing contact with people you care about because of your beliefs, and that can happen on both sides.

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Marla Grant: So one of the most helpful things we can do is think about loving ways, not just for self care. But how can I connect with somebody else? How can I make that person's life a little bit easier?

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Marla Grant: And you know. It's pretty easy to think of ways to do that. And listen. I'm I'm talking about something as simple as

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Marla Grant: as holding a door open for someone.

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Marla Grant: I did that in the I did that.

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Marla Grant: I wrote about this actually on on substack, I think I called it.

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Marla Grant: I think I called it something about the ice cream store, a short story about love, and was at the ice cream store.

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Marla Grant: I I had gotten my ice cream. I was.

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Marla Grant: I was really cranky when I got to the store.

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Marla Grant: was not happy with the way things were going, and it was beginning to, I realized all of a sudden it was making me cranky. It was making me

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Marla Grant: project unloving, you know.

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Marla Grant: mental, emotional vibrations out in the world which I do not want to do, and I just I. All of a sudden I felt bad. I just physically did not feel good, so I got my ice cream and I went to. I went to the door. Excuse me, and I don't even know where this guy came from. I didn't even see him.

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Marla Grant: but

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Marla Grant: I thought I'm going to hold the door open for that guy, and it was probably it was not like he was right there, ready to go out the door. He I held it open for like 30 seconds, and it was an African American gentleman.

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Marla Grant: and it was almost like this moment was meant to happen.

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Marla Grant: He walked through the door, and he looked at me.

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Marla Grant: I mean, he really looked in my eyes, and he said, Thank you for your kindness.

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Marla Grant: and in that moment I knew.

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Marla Grant: That's who you need to be all the time.

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Marla Grant: People will respond. I invite you. If you're listening.

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Marla Grant: try that, try that anywhere. You are. Just say something kind and loving to someone, don't. It doesn't have to be fabricated. Be genuine.

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Marla Grant: I mean, think of something.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Be kind and look for reasons to hold space for someone else. You held space for that gentleman. It was physical space in that you held the door for him, and you allowed him to progress at his own pace. You didn't hold, you know the hold the door open and you weren't tapping your foot.

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Marla Grant: No.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Door open and allowed him to move through that space unencumbered.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And he, he remarked

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to you about kindness, but it's it's the whole, the ability to hold space for other people. We can do it in our comments on people's posts, you know. People say things that trigger you all the time, no matter what your politics are, no matter what's going on in your life, you will get triggered by things people say.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You don't have to respond in a way that

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: is like fighting back. You can just let them have the space to express themselves because they are also in pain. Something caused them to create that content that they created. Yeah.

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Marla Grant: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: You allow them the space to feel those feelings, and you can. You can be kind to them. You might not have to agree with them, but you can be kind to them in that pain that they are obviously in, rather than piling on and making them feel worse about it.

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Marla Grant: Thank you so much for mentioning that. And it's so odd that you did, because, I to my positive intelligence clients, I I send bi-weekly, semi-weekly messages, and at the end of the one I sent yesterday I said that very thing.

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Marla Grant: I said, when we're tapped into what we call our sage mind.

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Marla Grant: we are much more. We we drop the judgment.

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Marla Grant: and we're much more inclined to be discerning. Now there's nothing wrong with looking at what's happening in in the world and making a decision about about how how you feel about it, and

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Marla Grant: whether it's serving the greater good or not. There's nothing at all wrong about that.

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Marla Grant: But what when we get into trouble is when we start judging people, we start saying you are this or that, you are, or, you know, thinking, even thinking malevolent thoughts.

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Marla Grant: you know. If now this goes back to my belief that we are.

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Marla Grant: we are all from the same divine spark. We are all of the same stuff. We are all at different

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Marla Grant: places in our learning, our spiritual learning, our spiritual growth.

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Marla Grant: but we are all the very same at our core, our very essence.

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Marla Grant: So I don't know what that person's gone through. So I said, You know.

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Marla Grant: take a moment and do exactly what you just said. Just

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Marla Grant: be curious, invoke that part of your mind

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Marla Grant: which is one of the powers of our sage mind is to is to be curious about. I wonder what happened

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Marla Grant: in that person's life when they were a child, to make them so hateful, or what is happening in their life now that makes them feel disenfranchised.

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Marla Grant: and as if their needs are being neglected and everyone else's are being focused on. There's something going on there.

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Marla Grant: you know. We all, we all react to life based on what's happened to us. It's all that. That's all our survival. And you're right. You said this at the beginning. It's all fear based

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Marla Grant: survival, you know. I I won't. People won't love me or or I won't physically survive, or it can be a million ways that we feel that we.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Missing out on this or I

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: yes, I'm gonna end up dead.

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Marla Grant: Yes, yes, or broke, or whatever yeah, for sure.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, it. It doesn't take a lot.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: but it does take a conscious effort

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: to be aware of other people and to be kind. My daughter, my youngest daughter, she

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: so one of her greatest desires

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: are characteristics that she aspires to is to is kindness.

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Marla Grant: Oh, it's.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: She. She wants to be thought of as a kind human being, and she's verbalized this a lot in her life. She's like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I I more than anything else. I want people to think of me as being kind, and so she goes out of her way to be a kind human being which is like

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I've learned so much from her.

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Marla Grant: That that really resonates with me. It reminds me very much of Nicole. She was. She was so like that, and, in fact, on one of our many trips back from the hospital, she just spontaneously said to me.

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Marla Grant: You know, mom, I think the reason we're all here is to help each other.

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Marla Grant: and she was so like that. Yet she grew up with 3 brothers, so she was perfectly capable of taking care of herself.

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Marla Grant: and very clear thinker. Very. She was so wise beyond her years she used to used to marvel at.

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Marla Grant: She. She did not suffer foolish behavior, but she was a very, very kind person. So that's a lovely attribute.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I think of her as an old soul. I think her soul is much older than mine, and she came. I was 44 when she was born. So I mean so like young when she came along.

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Marla Grant: Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And she just. She was just like she was a surprise she was.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: She was a girl. I wanted a daughter. I'd had 3 sons, an oldest daughter, and then 3 sons, and I really wanted the last one to be a girl and

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: yeah, she's just like she's always been a gift.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I've always told her she was a gift.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: It was no doubt in my mind.

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Marla Grant: Yeah, they're wonderful.

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Marla Grant: If we have time. I just want to touch a little bit on my marital relationship.

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Marla Grant: Only because it it bears a lot of importance in the the things that I've learned.

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Marla Grant: And I want to stress before before I say this, that

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Marla Grant: there were many more gifts that came out of the stress in this relationship

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Marla Grant: than the trials. The the trials are largely over.

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Marla Grant: even though in a twist, odd twist of fate. I am his power of attorney.

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Marla Grant: and he is in a facility because he was a lifelong alcoholic.

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Marla Grant: And

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Marla Grant: with a sex addiction, and those do not do not go together very well on the receiving end. He was he was

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Marla Grant: you know. God bless him! He had a really really difficult childhood.

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Marla Grant: He did not ever learn how to emotionally regulate.

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Marla Grant: And of course all this created a lot of issues. I was very young and naive. I didn't know anything. Not only did I not have any answers when I got married I didn't even know what the questions were, so I

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Marla Grant: relate to that so much

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Marla Grant: I didn't. I was like la, la, la! But, boy, I got a quick education.

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Marla Grant: and he he he could be violent at times. I I often worried about.

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Marla Grant: I was not sure if what would happen. He did tell me he thought about killing me.

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Marla Grant: So there was all this going on in the background. Of course, of course, the children had

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Marla Grant: problems with him.

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Marla Grant: But I I say all this that you know I

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Marla Grant: I I intentionally stayed part of the reason I stayed married was because we lived overseas, and my options for leaving with 4 children were

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Marla Grant: difficult. Let's put it that way.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.

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Marla Grant: But things began to change when I got back to the States. We lived abroad for 15 years, and I I could begin to take some kind of control after I got back here. But but Nicole died shortly after we got back, and

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Marla Grant: some other things happened. So I kind of had I really in my mind? I knew I knew

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Marla Grant: in 1982, when Ryan was born.

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Marla Grant: I looked 18 years into the future, and I knew that when Ryan was able to leave home, that would be when I left my husband.

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Marla Grant: So I knew I had all that time, and I I kind of knew how to keep the

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Marla Grant: the ship afloat.

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Marla Grant: It wasn't always easy, it was always sometimes dangerous and very uncomfortable and unpleasant at times.

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Marla Grant: but Ryan was almost 18 when I left, and and you know that that period, the next couple of years was difficult.

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Marla Grant: But I you know

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Marla Grant: I and I I was in deep. I was in grief, not right away. After I divorced him. I left in 1999. I divorced him in 2,000,

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Marla Grant: and I was not immediately feeling much grief.

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Marla Grant: But around the second year

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Marla Grant: I really went into a dark night of the soul, because I thought I just gave up.

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Marla Grant: It just gave 27 years of my life

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Marla Grant: to that. And I do not have the emotional capacity

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Marla Grant: to build another relationship, because I know I know what that take I and it felt like being in jail for so many years, and I've been single and extremely happy ever since. But in the meantime I also had.

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Marla Grant: I had had a transfusion in in Saudi Arabia when Nicole was born there, and I contracted Hep C.

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Marla Grant: So I'm also thinking to myself.

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Marla Grant: I'm mad, because if I do have a sexual relationship with someone I have to tell them I'm like, this is so freaking, unfair. So I was angry on so many levels.

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Marla Grant: And then finally, one day, I don't know. Listen! I feel like I've had.

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Marla Grant: I know I came into this world with a ton of help

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Marla Grant: there for me. So I was speaking to my guides and to to you. Know my spirit helpers in God. And I said, I said, Look.

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Marla Grant: if I have to go through all this shit. All I ask is that I please learn what I'm supposed to learn.

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Marla Grant: And when I said that everything changed.

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Marla Grant: everything changed. I started to learn, started delving more into spirituality. I began to see a pattern patterns in my life. One thing led to the next I was led to find this work, the the grief recovery work I do, and then I was led to positive intelligence, which is sort of the next step I take people through.

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Marla Grant: and it has been phenomenally healing both for me and for my clients. I mean.

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Marla Grant: I've I've worked with people who were at rock bottom, and they

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Marla Grant: they just they just are flying now. They just they have. You know their lives are full of hope and love and joy.

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Marla Grant: and and I'm not doing that. I just. I'm I'm a guide, that's all I am. I can't do the work for anybody, but I'm so full of admiration for them because

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Marla Grant: they're so courageous. I'm like it takes. It takes a lot of courage to do the work.

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Marla Grant: And I've I've worked with men, too, who've said, man.

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Marla Grant: I didn't know it was going to be this hard. I'm like, Yeah, it's hard. You you have to be radically honest with yourself. I could see, I could see all the ways. Just 2 years ago.

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Marla Grant: in my late sixties, I learned one of the biggest lessons of my life having to do with why I was such a pleaser.

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Marla Grant: and how I'm also a controller.

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Marla Grant: and how those 2 things you think we think we're you pleasers think they're just being nice. No, no, the truth about that is that part of us is trying to get something.

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Marla Grant: and I did not even see that until I started doing positive intelligence, and began to figure that out and do the work myself.

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Marla Grant: And then I'm like, Oh, so that's what's going on here. And the minute I did that I was like. I will never! I got it now. But that's what this is. That's a little.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Also freeing. I want to address that because I struggle with that same thing like I really want people to like me. So I want to do all the things for them. But really I want I just want to get it done, and I know how to get it done. And so I just want to do it for them to get it done rather than to allow them to have the experience for themselves.

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Marla Grant: Yes.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Or to ask them if they want help. It took me years. I was literally in my sixties when I figured this out. It's like. I don't.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I know right? You would think it would be obvious, but it just isn't because we're not told that stuff we're just told we're bossy. And so, you know, you go around all butt hurt because people think you're bossy. Well.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I have a gift, and I can help people, but you know.

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Marla Grant: I know sometimes people don't want to be helped.

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Marla Grant: This story is identical to what happened to me, and it happened with the gentleman that I was friends with, and I did the same thing. I could see that he needed help with this, because he wasn't very good at the errands of life. And so I inserted myself.

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Marla Grant: And, by the way, that can create feelings of resentment

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Marla Grant: in other people, we think they should appreciate it.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: But they don't.

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Marla Grant: Because because what you're doing is you're saying to them, you're not capable of this, or or

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Marla Grant: we're denying them exactly what you said. The opportunity to grow by having to be miserable in figuring it out, and

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Marla Grant: you know I know he's he's fine without me. But what I was doing was

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Marla Grant: the controller in me was stepping up and doing all this stuff because I'm good at that stuff.

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Marla Grant: Sounds like same thing with you.

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Marla Grant: But but but but I wasn't being just, you know, altruistic.

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Marla Grant: I knew that if those things were taken care of

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Marla Grant: he was in a better mood. He was in a happier place.

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Marla Grant: and so we had a lot more fun together.

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Marla Grant: But that was my own. That was my own issue, my own insecurity. About what if he you know. What if he doesn't like me? What if he doesn't? What if this? What if that?

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Marla Grant: And as soon as as soon as I figured that out, and I I figured it out because one of the things I learned through positive intelligence was

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Marla Grant: when somebody says something, just be quiet. And and instead of formulating

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Marla Grant: a response. Like you said, you don't have to react to everything. Just be quiet. And when I did that

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Marla Grant: I started I really listened to what he was saying.

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Marla Grant: and I'm like. And then and then a certain incident had happened that made all this, have, you know, come to light.

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Marla Grant: But I realized, because I didn't respond. And I listened. I'm like, Oh, shit! That's what that's what he that's that's why he did what he did

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Marla Grant: now, what he did was not reasonable, but I understood why he did it, and in that moment I thought, girl, that was all you.

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Marla Grant: And yet when he told me it was all me. I was like, what do you mean? You're the one that flew off, anyway. It we learned so much. We don't learn from life when it's easy.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Nope.

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Marla Grant: We learn from life, and it beats us up.

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Marla Grant: so let it beat you up, and don't resist it.

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Marla Grant: Just take the time to, you know.

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Marla Grant: Make sure you.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Hero.

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Marla Grant: That can listen to you

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Marla Grant: or call me up. We'll have a 30 min. Discovery call won't cost you anything.

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Marla Grant: Yeah, it's it's 1 of the funny. It's just a funny thing about life.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: If you get stuck in victimhood, it

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: it can be you'll. You'll be stuck in misery. But if you can look at life like you're the hero of your own story, and things are gonna happen to you. Because, you know, when you read a story, a really good story, there's lots of twists and turns.

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Marla Grant: Happen. And you're they're Cliffhangers. Yeah.

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Marla Grant: And it's like.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And experience the Cliffhangers in your own life.

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Marla Grant: Yeah. And it's not an interesting story. If the hero doesn't have faults.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Right.

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Marla Grant: No! So no, no.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Parts, how they're gonna move through the tragedy in their life.

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Marla Grant: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: So I know that you offer

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: the 30 min discovery call that you just mentioned, but you also offer an ebook about the 6 major myths about grief. You want to talk about that briefly for just a minute.

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Marla Grant: Yes, it's It's a great little ebook that just kind of gives you

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Marla Grant: a an overview of, if you, if you've gone through a grief. Events.

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Marla Grant: some of the things that happen are are going to be familiar to you like

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Marla Grant: you might have run into people, for instance, who said that that

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Marla Grant: you should be over this by now?

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Marla Grant: Okay.

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Marla Grant: time does. One of the myths is that time heals time doesn't heal anything. It it may lessen the intensity of your grief, but it doesn't actually heal.

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Marla Grant: and grief is cumulative, and it's cumulatively negative. So if you had something happen to you in your childhood, and all your parents did was say, if you're going to cry, go to your room. You know that reinforces the idea that you're supposed to isolate. You're supposed to not share your grief.

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Marla Grant: whatever that was. You are being denied expression of your pain, and that is going to carry into your adult life, and you are going to expect out of others. And it's a repeating, repeating cycle.

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Marla Grant: So it's a whole. It's a it's about 6 of the sort of the major myths about grief that it goes through. It's just really very instructional, and it can make you feel less alone in what you're going through. I had a I had a 1 of the moms I worked with

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Marla Grant: it. Was she actually lost her only child, a son.

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Marla Grant: and she was a very positive person, and I knew she was going to do well right from the beginning.

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Marla Grant: But someone at her work only months into having lost her child said to her, your son's been gone for a minute now you need to get over it.

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Marla Grant: and we can. I know we can hardly believe the cruelty and the

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Marla Grant: but this comes from this comes from a place in people of their own fear of loss.

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Marla Grant: like people, can't.

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Marla Grant: They just don't want to know. They're uncomfortable. Now, there's also, you know.

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Marla Grant: we also kind of have to learn to have some some empathy for people, because

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Marla Grant: they don't understand. They don't understand. Nobody can really understand what you're going through unless they've been through something similar. And even still, I never tell a parent or anyone I'm working with. Yes, I know. I know what I know how you feel.

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Marla Grant: Because I don't know how they feel their you. Their relationship with that person was unique.

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Marla Grant: and and that, you know, even in a family where there are several family members and someone dies.

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Marla Grant: that grief event is different for all of them, because at various, you know, levels of relationship with the person

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Marla Grant: wherever their own experiences. So yeah, we go back to that label thing any anytime. We label ourselves, you know victims, or or you know I am this or I am that so? Anyway, it's just a really good overview of some of the basic myths about it, and I will. I will in time be adding some more ebooks to my website, which will be available as well.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And you want to tell people where they can find it. And the name of your website.

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Marla Grant: Yes, my work is called inspired grief, recovery.

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Marla Grant: past tense inspired. So if you go to inspiredgriefrecovery.com slash event

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Marla Grant: and click on that, and you will see you will see the opportunity to to sign up, and you'll you'll get a free subscription to my sub stack.

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Marla Grant: and you can sign up for a free 30 min. Call with me, and then you can also just click and download the ebook.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Awesome. And you're on substack@marlagrant.substack.com, and you're very active over there. And yeah, people can

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: can actually connect with you cause I love Sunstack for that.

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Marla Grant: Yes, that's actually the reason that I I do. I do have.

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Marla Grant: I am on Facebook with inspired grief. Recovery. And I am on

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Marla Grant: Instagram. But I I stopped being quite as active there because I really wanted to interact with people. I wanted to talk to people. I wanted to have a conversation, and that's I can facilitate that much greater on on substack.

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Marla Grant: So, and I am hoping to begin a live

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Marla Grant: sort of intermittent. I don't know how often I'm going to do it, but I want people to have. There's so much anxiety and stress going on right now. I want people to have a place that they can come, even if it's just for 15 or 20 min, and I'll take them through some somatic exercises that can help them 1st of all recognize that they are in a state of.

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Marla Grant: you know, mild trauma or stress and anxiety. We don't. We don't often realize that, you know as you're as you're listening to this.

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Marla Grant: I would. I would recommend that you just do a body scan just just kind of check in with your body? Are your shoulders lifted a little bit? Are you feeling

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Marla Grant: any anxiety in your chest? Is your jaw a little bit tight? You know we go through that all day long and never even realize it. So yeah, I can give you some tips on. We'll just get relaxed together.

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Marla Grant: Because if you're if you're in the moment. If you're focused on your body or focused on something in the physical, you cannot both be in the present moment and also in your in your survivor brain, which is all about anxiety and stress. It's it's not possible physiologically, it's not possible.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: And smile.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: even if you don't think you're something's funny, or you're not feeling like it. Just smiling changes the physiology of your body.

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Marla Grant: Yes, and and I want to just leave you with one free tip that's really helpful

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Marla Grant: today. Try this today

475

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Marla Grant: instead of thinking about something that you did wrong. Judging yourself for something you've done wrong.

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Marla Grant: I want you to think about something that you've done right and

477

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Marla Grant: high 5 yourself for it, or or just like

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Marla Grant: I did, awesome, or I accomplished that task that

479

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Marla Grant: I have been putting off and putting off just something. Or yes, I made that person smile or use that as a you know, as as a little tool today. See if you can make somebody smile.

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Marla Grant: bring joy to somebody else, I promise you, when you do that it will lighten your own heart.

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Marla Grant: for sure.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Can't help but to just come back at you and make you feel better.

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Marla Grant: It does. It's just

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Marla Grant: it's just you know, we're constantly putting out. We have what we what are called mirror neurons. And you, you can tell when you know this, because, you know, when somebody comes in a room

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Marla Grant: and they're bringing dark energy with it, you can feel that. And in in the same way, though, you can also feel somebody who lights up a room. You are doing that when you're interacting with people.

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Marla Grant: So

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Marla Grant: what do you want to send out. I was listening to one of Sarah Faye's lives yesterday, and one of the wanna, you know, one of the speakers said, Who do you want to be? Who do you want to portray yourself as online? And just like your daughter said, I want to be known for kindness.

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Marla Grant: It does not mean that you're ignoring what's happening

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Marla Grant: that needs attention doesn't mean that.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: He's a 3rd degree black Belt in Karate.

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Marla Grant: That.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: He's a 3rd degree black belt in Karate, so she's she knows.

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Marla Grant: Oh, she knows that other side. Yeah.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah, she knows the other side, but she chooses kindness.

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Marla Grant: Oh, yeah, they are not mutually exclusive.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: Yeah.

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Marla Grant: I want to make that really clear.

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Marla Grant: you know, being strong and courageous and doing the things that need to be done. I tell people. Love is an action. Verb.

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Marla Grant: you know it's not. It does not exclude

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Marla Grant: that. It's almost what makes you powerful enough to be strong in your kindness.

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Marla Grant: Yeah, that's a really good point.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I love that. Thank you so much for joining us today.

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Marla Grant: Thank you. I'm I'm amazed at how much you and I have common.

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Marla Grant: Thank you so much for having me. I any chance I get to talk to people is a great thing. I give them hope.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: I've loved this

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: so to learn more about Marla, and to book a consultation with her, or to get access to the 6 major myths about grief. Please visit inspiredgriefrecovery.com, and we'll be sure to put the links in the show notes below. Thank you for tuning in with us today. If you have a podcast or you're interested in starting one to get your message in front of our huge and active audience, be sure to reach out to us at jill@gnostictv.com.

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Jill Hart-The Coach's Alchemist: We love to help spiritual entrepreneurs and coaches, amplify their voice and monetize their mission, and offer a variety of ways to do this on the Gnostic TV network platform. Please join us for our next episode as we share what others are doing to raise the global frequency. And remember, change begins with you. You have all the power to change the world, start today and get visible.