00:00:06 Shreya: What if Joy was never something we had to earn? What if making music, humming, playing, or listening wasn't about being good enough, but about remembering something essential inside us? Today we are exploring music not as performance or perfection, but as an offering. One that steadies the nervous system, softens the heart, and quietly brings us back into harmony.

00:00:33 Shreya: Welcome to sacred Harmony, a space where we explore healing, presence and the subtle ways to return to ourselves. I'm your host, Shreya, and today I'm joined by Katherine Chestnut, whose work helps people who look fine on the outside but feel fried on the inside, reconnect with steadiness, joy, and calm confidence. In this conversation, we are exploring joy is the offering. Why playing music matters and how music, when released from pressure and performance, becomes a very powerful, grounding force for both personal and collective well-being. Welcome, Kathryn. I'm honored to have you on my show.

00:01:14 Katharine Chestnut: Thank you for having me.

00:01:16 Shreya: And, Kathryn, before we talk about music itself, what first showed you that joy and calm are not personality traits, but skills we can gently rebuild even when the life feels overwhelming.

00:01:32 Katharine Chestnut: I believe that it was really when I was recovering from an abusive relationship, and I was looking for all the things that I could do to bring myself back to a place of joy. People used to frequently ask me, what is it that you want? And I would respond by saying, I want to be happy again. I want to be joyful again. And it was. Joy is not something that you can force. You have to allow it. You have to create space for it to come into your heart and your life.

00:02:17 Shreya: Yes, I really like this line. Like joy cannot be forced. It has to come naturally. It's really like a quote. And like also, many people carry the belief that the music is for the talented, the trained, or the brave enough to perform. I am really curious, what do you see happen when people relate to music only through achievement or only through perfection?

00:02:44 Katharine Chestnut: Well, interestingly enough, when I was young I played the harp and the cello, and it was a performance. And it was. I was expected to play perfectly. And it wasn't until many years later that I ended up joining an all volunteer marching band in my community, that the pressure to not be perfect allowed me to just have joy when I was playing the music.

00:03:25 Shreya: Yeah, but also like, let's stay with that for a moment. Like, how does that same pressure mirror the way many of us live our lives under stress?

00:03:38 Katharine Chestnut: Well, I can say that when I am playing with the band, I feel joy like pure, unadulterated joy. And even when we are performing, the audience is feeling joy. And we're not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but just the joy that we're feeling and the joy that the audience is feeling just lifts everybody up. That is around when we are performing. When we're playing.

00:04:16 Shreya: Yes. Well, like what you were pointing to feels really important. Like how the drive to do it right quietly drains the joy not just from music, but also from our nervous system and for our sense of aliveness also.

00:04:32 Katharine Chestnut: Absolutely. And I we have rehearsal every Tuesday night and I really look forward to going because whatever stress or anxiety that I have felt during the day just simply melts away because I'm with everybody else in, you know, our community center and we're playing. And even if we're not perfect, it doesn't matter because we're there, we're present, and the music gives us so much. And in a way it becomes very spiritual because you're listening to everybody else, uh, you you have to be, you know, you have to have humility because we're not perfect. And you, you need to have compassion as well, because not everybody's going to get what the music is doing. So just allowing yourself to be in that moment and be super present.

00:05:42 Shreya: Yeah. And like that brings up something really interesting. Like, why do you think joy and like, especially playful expression, like music gets pushed aside when people are under chronic stress or under burnout?

00:06:02 Katharine Chestnut: The the music, even if you're not playing. I mean, think about when you listen to a song that makes you happy and makes you want to dance around the living room like nobody's looking. You're moving and our emotions are energy in motion. Think about that. Our emotions need to move. So when we're dancing around or, you know, tapping our toe, even, uh, it just brings us to that place of we're part of the music and just allowing ourselves to be to just be. And that brings us to our spiritual presence.

00:06:55 Shreya: Yes. I absolutely agree with you. And also like. Yeah. I like beneath that stress response what is actually happening in the body and nervous system that makes joy feel unsafe or unnecessary.

00:07:17 Katharine Chestnut: When when joy feels unsafe. Because there's a point where when you're feeling joyful, you're also in a place of vulnerability and that doesn't always feel safe in whatever surroundings that you're in, and slowly joy gets pushed to the background or disappears altogether. If you are feeling unsafe.

00:07:54 Shreya: Yeah. So it sounds like joy is not lost. It's just deprioritized in survival mode, even though it may be exactly what the system needs to regulate.

00:08:08 Katharine Chestnut: Absolutely. When joy is always within us, but we're not always recognizing it. And because we don't feel like we're in a place where we can be joyful and vulnerable and allowing ourselves to feel our spiritual presence and be to have humility. And when we don't feel safe, we shut down and we shut down all the feelings. Because all the feelings. And that includes joy.

00:08:51 Shreya: Yes. I that's that's really a very grounding and a very powerful truth. And I'd love to ground this like in everyday life. Like, what does it look like when someone is running on empty but still performing at work, in relationships, or even in their creative life?

00:09:12 Katharine Chestnut: Things become a habit, but not just a habit. We're going through the motions. We're not. The things that made us happy in the past aren't making us happy. There was a while then when I was going through that recovery from abuse where nothing made me feel happy and I had to work at it. And I say work at it. And I mean it was less about work and more about learning to allow. I'm giving myself space and. Making that something that I allowed myself to feel again and all the feelings. And that meant the good and the bad. And I don't like to classify emotions as good or bad, but some of them are definitely more pleasant than others. But allowing yourself to feel the sadness and grief and pain Is also going to come when you're feeling happy and healing and joyful.

00:10:39 Shreya: Yes. And also like when music reenters their life not as a task, but as a gentle offering. What tends to shift first?

00:10:52 Katharine Chestnut: I believe our bodies tend to shift first. Our bodies know what they need. Our bodies know that we need to move. Which is why we exercise or walk or listen to music while we're doing those things. Because it allows us to be very, very grounded in the moment. So our bodies feel it first. And when our bodies start to feel it, our hearts and our spirits and our minds can start to feel it.

00:11:31 Shreya: Yeah, that's a very nice thing. And there is something really deeply reassuring in that that joy does not demand energy. It actually gives it back.

00:11:43 Katharine Chestnut: Yes, but you can't. Like I said, you can't go chasing it. You can't force it. You have to allow it, and you have to allow all the other things to come as well.

00:11:59 Shreya: Yes. And like for those listeners who feel skeptical of self-care, but they are really curious about music as regulation, where might they begin without adding another thing to their to do list?

00:12:17 Katharine Chestnut: I would say listen to music that that you enjoy and the the rhythm of music is also something that helps you to. Find that regulation, because we also inherently want rhythm and order to our chaotic lives. And music has rhythm. It's based on math, and so we want that regular expectation. We know what to expect. We know when the downbeats are things like that and we feel that.

00:13:08 Shreya: Yeah. And like also like, how can someone use music like playing, maybe listening or maybe humming also as a same day tool to release the tension or decision fatigue.

00:13:23 Katharine Chestnut: It's like certain kinds of breathwork and I host a live breathwork session every Sunday morning. And. That when you're practicing breathwork, you can practice it in such a way that you're making a noise, a humming or a hissing. And again, that vibration is moving the energy through you. So you don't have to have music, but it certainly creates a place to naturally find that inner movement in your body.

00:14:08 Shreya: That's a nice thing. I think what I'm hearing is that music becomes like a doorway, like very simple, accessible, and surprisingly very powerful door doorway when we let go of the expectation sometimes.

00:14:21 Katharine Chestnut: Yes. And like I said before, put on some music that you like and dance around the living room like nobody's looking, because it removes that expectation or that embarrassment that you might feel if you were doing it in front of somebody else. And just allow yourself to be in that moment with the music and moving. However the music guides you. So you find your own rhythm and there's no expectation from anybody else. So you can do that while you're. You can listen to music. I like to listen to very calming, you know, lyrics, music when I'm working because it allows my creativity to find its own rhythm as well.

00:15:21 Shreya: Yeah. And like. Oh, of course, like there are days when joy feels really far away. So when someone feels really disconnected or resistant. How do you suggest they meet themselves with compassion rather than force?

00:15:42 Speaker 3: I would say.

00:15:43 Katharine Chestnut: You know, I like breathwork, I like meditation, I like listening to an active meditation, meaning go for a walk and listen to an active meditation that is causing you to be very, very, very conscious of all your senses and don't focus on bringing joy. Like I said, just allow it to come and it may take time. It took me a lot of time to create the space for joy to come back to me.

00:16:28 Shreya: Yeah, I think I think that reframes the fields. And I think it feels really freeing. And also like, how does reframing come? Confidence as a skill, like, not as a personality trait, really helps people stay engaged without self-judgment?

00:16:49 Katharine Chestnut: Yes. If you're just either playing to just play music for yourself, it's very different than when there's a performance. So you're playing for perfection. That's different. But if we give ourselves the gift of music and allow us to just either listen or hum or tap our toes, any of those things, were feeling the music and allowing it to open ourselves up again, moving the emotions, the energy in our body and through our body. Mhm.

00:17:38 Shreya: I think this is really a very powerful statement, like permission to return again and again without any kind of shame. And also like I, I have personally this curiosity, like so many people say I am just not that musical. What do you think that belief is really protecting them from?

00:18:01 Katharine Chestnut: Well it's interesting, my my sister says that. My sister says that I can't play an instrument. I'm not very musical. I don't have any rhythm. And then I point out to her, yes, but you are part of a Dance group. Uh, you know, uh, she they don't perform. They just dance. And she's letting the music move through her with that dance. And she's just feeling the joy of doing that. And when, again, she's not performing. And so I have to remind her. Yes, you you are. You are musical. You're just expressing it in a different way than I do, because I'm. I have two left feet, so. So I may be able to play music and feel the joy and the movement that comes from that. And she feels it through movement and dance.

00:19:08 Speaker 3: Yeah.

00:19:10 Shreya: That's really nice. Like from movement and from music. It's it's really a very nice combination. And Also like, if, uh, listeners can just take one thing from this conversation. What is a gentle reframe you hope stays with them on stressful days also?

00:19:33 Katharine Chestnut: When I have a stressful day, I will come home and just listen to music and allow myself to feel it while I'm, say, cooking, cooking dinner. And I'll put the music on. Not with the intention of looking for the release that music brings to me, but the music will bring it to me because eventually I might start dancing around a little bit in the kitchen while I'm cooking, and the music has a way of moving into our bodies whether we want it to or not.

00:20:22 Shreya: That's a nice information. I think many of us actually don't know that. And also, like I have a question like what feels possible when we stop asking? Am I doing this right? And instead of ask, does this help me feel more alive?

00:20:42 Katharine Chestnut: I can't say that I actually ask that question when I'm playing music or dancing around. I'm just bringing myself to a place of, in a way, I'm relaxing, which allows me to feel grounded and to connect with my own spirit and my own faith because it lives in my body. So I'm just I'm not asking that question. I'm just doing things that I know will make me or help me. I should say not make will help me feel more relaxed and grounded.

00:21:29 Speaker 3: Yes.

00:21:30 Shreya: I think it feels like music is not asking us to perform or heal or like to fix anything. Just to listen and to like, let ourselves to be where we are.

00:21:42 Speaker 3: Yes.

00:21:44 Shreya: And this is truly a very different conversation with you, which is really powerful, really helpful and insightful. And I think something we don't really often discuss about, uh, like we, we talk a lot about mental health or like holistic health, but we haven't like, spoke so much about desktop. So thank you for bringing this topic and discussing this and sharing so much information. And if after this, my listeners want to connect with you, then What's the best way?

00:22:16 Katharine Chestnut: Uh, they can go to my website, which is Catherine Chestnut com. I also have books available on Amazon, and I'm also a meditation teacher on Insight Timer and also have all those meditations on YouTube.

00:22:37 Speaker 3: Yes.

00:22:38 Shreya: And I will make sure to attach all these details and links below so that the listeners can find them easily and get in touch with you and know more from you. And for my listeners, thank you for sharing this space with us today on sacred Harmony. If something in this conversation resonated, I invite you to pause, maybe play a note, hum a melody, or simply listen and let joy meet you where you are. Until next time, stay Harmony. Find you, talk softly and may your presence be enough. And do not forget to hit the follow button. Subscribe and feel free to share your thoughts because your ears deserve premium content. Thank you.