Welcome to the Construction Disruption Podcast, where we

uncover the future of design, building, and remodeling.

I'm Todd Miller of Isaiah Industries, manufacturer

of specialty metal roofing and other building materials.

Today, my co host here on the Construction Disruption Show is Ryan Bell.

Hi, Ryan.

How is today going?

Hi, Todd.

So far, so good.

How are you?

Going well, doing okay.

I need to come up with a more exciting intro.

Something to ask you, but I do have a, have a knock knock joke for you.

Okay.

Let's hear it.

Okay.

Well, you know, of course this is audience part, you have to

participate to some degree.

Okay,

here we go, Ryan.

Knock, knock.

Who's there?

Hike.

Haiku.

In autumn's cool breeze, laughter knocks upon your

door, smiles chase tears away.

That was good.

Haiku, haiku, haiku.

Yeah, I got it.

As soon as I said it, I knew where you were going with it.

Okay.

Shall we get this show on the road?

Let's do it.

Yes.

So today our spotlighted guest is Jesse Hernandez.

Uh, based in San Antonio, Texas, Jesse is no stranger to the

construction field, having spent his entire career in this industry.

Jesse is now the owner of DepthBuilder and DepthBuilder.

com.

Through his company, Jesse is a strong advocate for the construction

industry and in particular for good leadership and good communication.

He works with construction professionals of all types, helping them to increase

their influence, or increase their influence, I should say, by improving

their communication styles and the way they solve problems, a published authors,

public speaker, podcaster, and consultant, Jesse is determined to elevate our

industry through improved leadership.

And communication, Jesse, welcome to construction disruption.

Oh, good morning.

Thank you for having me.

And thank you for that joke.

I was like, Oh, that was, that was pretty witty there.

The haiku.

Well, sometimes we try to add a little levity and.

Just to let our audience know, and Jesse is in on this as well.

Um, we have each been given a challenge word, uh, to work into

our conversation here today.

So, uh, you, our audience can listen for words that we, uh, might say that

may seem a little peculiar, um, to you.

And perhaps that was the challenge word that one of us had.

And at the end of the show, we will say whether we've said

our challenge words or not.

So, um, Jesse, one of the things that I know that you really believe

in, uh, and I'm right there with you and I know Ryan is as well.

Um, is the power of story.

Um, and we all have stories that can bolster and encourage and build into

others in order to make the world better.

Um, this is a big open ended question I'm about to ask you, but can you tell

us a little bit, you know, about your early years, how you came to be in the

construction industry and, you know, perhaps go ahead and share a story

of something in your life that has really helped shape what you're doing.

These patients that you have today.

Oh, my goodness.

Yes.

Thank you for that, Todd.

So keep it concise.

I'm only going to go back to the 1900s when I am, right?

Like, because you can say that.

And it's true.

Now you can graduated high school.

95 1995.

My dad's a plumber.

And so I'm a second generation plumber, except that I don't do plumbing anymore.

Uh, anyhow, graduated high school, got a summer job to save up some

cash to pay for room and board at a junior college here in Texas.

And I walked on the job site.

It was a commercial renovation of a high school here in town.

And the environment was like Disneyland for me.

And when I think back on it, the reason it was so welcoming.

Is because my energy in the classroom only got me in trouble and the reaction I

would get from my teachers and classmates and so forth made me feel less than

because I needed to behave a certain way that I did it took everything I

had to do it like for me to be quiet.

Takes way more energy than it does for me to go at the speed.

I like to go.

It just drains.

Anyhow, I was on a college track, but again, worked on that job site.

I said, Oh, my goodness, this is what I want to do.

The physicality, the problem solving, the camaraderie, the

sensory input, like just problem solving, like everything was great.

It was the conditions that are perfect for people like me to thrive and grow.

But I didn't know that back then, right?

I just saw fun and excitement and adventure.

Um, so started working, got an apprenticeship, uh, cause I didn't want

to be a helper for the rest of my life.

I asked one of the foremen I was working with, he said, well, you need to get in

an apprenticeship program if you want to really like advance your career.

So I did, got my license.

Um, so started there as an apprentice and then ended up.

Getting the leadership position promoted to foreman.

I say promoted because most people would understand that, but it was more

like punished to foreman because I was always complaining and irritated about

the way people were running things and the way they were treating people.

So they said, okay, you want to cry?

You go do it.

You think you could do better?

Have at it.

I love that.

And so like that little thing of, of me not being able to,

to be content with, Like funky stuff.

That's not fun and more difficult than it has to be.

It's probably the root of what guided the rest of my career.

So within that organization, I was on the plumbing side of the

business for just over 20 years, you know, installer, foreman,

superintendent, general superintendent.

At one point I was responsible for training and development,

transitional training from installer to foreman, foreman to superintendent.

Um, I was responsible for recruiting, put together.

Uh, internship program, trade based internship program for high school

students, 16 to 18 to come out in the field and get a feel for, because we

did plumbing, piping and sheet metal.

And so when they'd come with us over the summer, they would spend four to six weeks

and with the plumbers, four to six weeks with the pipe fitter welders and four

to six weeks with the sheet metal crew.

And at the end of the summer, some of them would say, I ain't doing this no more.

It's waking up at sevens hard.

And some would say, man, I really liked the sheet metal stuff.

Cool.

Come back next summer and then we'll get you an apprenticeship, et cetera.

That I found a passion for, and maybe more importantly, an

aptitude for developing people.

And it, the root of that was one of my bosses, Jim Jones.

He's passed away.

And I say, boss, he was my boss, but he was also a mentor.

Somebody I looked up to then and still look up to.

Um, one day he sat me down and told me, he's like, Jesse, you're

pretty good at getting jobs done.

You're pretty good at making money.

But people quit around you and I'm like, yeah, I know, like,

you need to hire tougher people.

And he says, well, here's the thing.

You have tons of potential.

And if you want to grow your influence with the organization,

you have to accomplish two things.

One, you're already doing financial results.

Two, is develop people.

And you're horrible at that.

I'm like, wait a minute, who, like all of a sudden there's these new rules

I gotta play by that, you know, cause as an installer you get rewarded.

For how much you do, how much you independently install.

And so now I got to develop people upside is I was working

for TD industries at the time.

Um, they had phenomenal program to help me develop those leadership

skills, people skills, et cetera.

And so I went in that direction and all of a sudden that unlocked the

whole, uh, new horizon for me because.

When I started developing, um, a knack for being a people focused leader, one,

people liked me more, people didn't like me before, and two, people stuck around

for, like, stuck with me for an extended period of time so that I can continue

honing my skills, but also contributing to the development of their capabilities.

That grew into my neck.

It kept expanding from developing my team to developing the business

unit, to getting the public speak in industry organizations, which then I

got recruited to do a job as serve as a regional asset for the central United

States, leading change and supporting people through whatever that looks like,

had an amazing team that was way more credentialed, way more talented than me.

And so it was my privilege to serve and support them, um, which then led to

a national role with the big national brand, national responsibilities.

Um, I did that for a little while, super amazing.

And then I started my business just over two years ago because

along the way, each of those jumps.

When I was an apprentice, I always thought the people in the office, they're

fancier, smarter, more intelligent, and have all the right answers.

And that's why I'm not there because I don't have them.

Well, as I moved up the ranks in the trade side of the business, I discovered like,

Oh, these people up here are human too.

And then I went to work for general contractor, which again, in my head,

they are the titans of industry.

So they know everything.

They're more educated.

They manage bigger backlog, et cetera.

And guess what?

They're also.

Human too.

And so it was kind of like, man, we're all just trying to figure this out.

And one of the key, um, gaps that we have is this communication thing, specifically

the listening part, the communicating to establish and cultivate connection

was totally absent at every level.

And I knew it because I couldn't do it at first, but I'd worked on it.

Um, and, and that's kind of.

Lit my flame.

And that's where I come from most of the time now.

Wow.

Very interesting.

So as you started your own company, well, first of all, let me ask, um,

tell us a little bit about how you arrived at the name depth builder.

Um, how did that end up being what you called your business?

That's a funny, I wish it was like some really deep intention,

but it's not.

Um, I was, I was in the pro I was still working full time.

I knew it was going to be launching my business.

And so I knew what I wanted to do.

I didn't know what to call it.

And I had a bunch of just like, whatever.

And I was workshopping.

I hired a coach.

If anybody's out there, you need a coat.

Like if you're trying something new, get a coach that just do that or get a peer

that can help you kick ideas around.

But I had a coach and she and I were going through some stuff.

She had helped me super talented woman.

I miss Kim white.

She helped me write a couple of books.

Um, and so as we're talking, she's like, Jesse, you're giving me all

these names and they sound like, you know, fancy names, right?

Like a keyword rich business name type thinking, but they were soulless.

And she's like, Jess, I've been involved with you for over a year now.

Everything that you put out is pretty deep in that it's not surface level.

It's not the rapper.

It's like the dirty details of what, what really being a person on the world is.

And I was like, wow, that, thank you.

It's like, she's like, you have a lot of depth.

And I said, well, when I work with people, that's what I want to do.

I want, because I know for me, the most fulfilling experience is to work

with one person, a person one on one or small teams for an experience, extended

period of time, because I can see the shift in the way they think and function

with that really rich connection.

Which is a matter of depth, right?

We're not talking about how to read budgets.

We're talking about how does it feel to have to present a budget that you're

showing a 20 percent overage on labor?

That's not going to improve.

What does that feel like?

And how do you have that conversation anyways?

And so I said, well, what about depth builder?

And she's like, yes, done.

So that was it.

That's how we came up with the name.

Well, I love it.

It's a great name.

Well, yeah.

Tell us a little bit about what you do, you know, how you work with your

clients, things you can help them with.

Um, you know, what, what do you provide to your clients?

Yeah, absolutely.

The, um, One of the easiest ways to frame it is, I help people

expand their influence, right?

Because I believe, and you guys probably know, you got

a podcast, there's tremendous value in expanding our influence.

But, and there's a lot of ways to expand our influence.

Right.

I can market the hell out of myself and do tick tock dances and stuff.

And I'll get attention and more people will know my name, but

that's kind of fleeting, right?

It's it'll run a run out.

Um, but when I connect with somebody and contribute into somebody else's life or

into their career, I have real influence now, there is an appreciation and a

connection that won't be broken unless I, um, violate something, some trust or, or.

Something in that manner, kind of like being up on the wall, falling off,

getting busted up when you break trust.

It's like Humpty Dumpty falling off the wards.

Very difficult to put it all back together.

Right?

So what I do is I help these leaders.

Understand how they're communicating and through the venue of problem

solving, which again, fancy words, but it's really more about what we

typically shifting their thinking from don't bring me any problems.

Bring me your solution.

That's it.

That's a standard way of thinking, which kind of works.

But I am.

I believe that that builds dependency within our team.

Because I'm not engaging.

I'm not listening.

I'm not receiving.

I'm not supporting or contributing.

So it's more a shift from that type of just tell me what, or

let me just tell you what to do.

It's more a shift in thinking, let's understand the problem better.

What's going on here?

What are the contributing factors?

And going to the people that are closest to the problem, to understand the

problem from their perspective as well.

And so it's sort of a collaborative social approach to solving business

problems, such that when we actually pull, press the button to make things

better or make the change, everybody that's affected with the issue is aware of

what's going to happen and is behind it.

So that when you deploy the, the solution, it sticks, which is very

different than sending out an email effective immediately thou shalt.

You ever receive or send any of those emails?

Oh, yeah.

All of that, that stuff that I kind of described in a very muddy fashion happens

as a result of a lot of touches, a lot of investigation, a lot of behavioral

change, and a lot of awakenings in terms of self awareness as we go through

evaluating the business problems and solving them in a different manner.

Um, so high level, big complex stuff.

That's what I do.

Super simple, personal is introduce people, help them become aware of their

habit, their solutionizing habits.

So like help them stop solution shanking people.

And I'm sure both of you know exactly what I mean when I, you

hear the word solution shank.

Yes.

Right.

Like, absolutely.

And so what happens when we solution shank, right?

Somebody comes to me with their problem.

I, I don't even let them finish.

I tell them, this is what you do.

Right.

And I do that over and over and over.

And then what ends up happening, I start getting really irritated.

Because my team can't make a damn decision.

And I start believing everybody around me doesn't have or take initiative when the

fact is I created that situation because all I do is give them answers all the

time, I've disconnected them from their agency because I don't even let them

finish the sit describing the situation.

So another exercise, like a big thing that I'm really working hard on is

introducing people to a methodology that helps them become aware of how

horrible we listen, how horrible we are at giving and receiving feedback,

and how like just super, super rude.

I don't say scrub level.

We are at staying focused on the task at hand.

And so an example, have you ever been in a situation where you're messing

around with your Excel spreadsheet and you're like struggling with it?

And somebody comes behind you and says, why are you doing it like that?

You should do this press control tab, blah, blah, blah.

And you're like, dude, like I'm good.

And then another person flies in and says, no, don't do that.

You should do this.

Why aren't you using Google?

And, and like, you just want to turn your computer off so they can go away.

Sound familiar?

Yes.

Absolutely.

Right.

So these, we, there's, you have a situation, you didn't need help.

Somebody that should be working on another task goes and invades, violates your

space to shower you with their wisdom.

So now you got two clowns working on a problem that only one can fix because

only one person fits on the keyboard.

And then the third person comes and starts mixing it up.

Yeah.

We do that instinctually believing that we're helping,

but nobody is getting helped.

And even worse, we're compounding the loss in terms of time and time

and dollars if you're at work by this behavior, but we're not even aware of it.

So anyways, that's one of the funnest things I get to do is help people

understand those dynamics and how they play out all day, every day.

And more importantly, that we're all guilty of it because it's easy to

say, Oh, yeah, I know who does that.

But guess what?

So do

you.

Absolutely.

I'm curious as you spoke there, and I do not mean this in any way,

shape or form is a sexist question.

But as you work with.

Men and women leaders, do you notice any difference in their natural

approaches to problem solving?

Um, I oftentimes feel like I do, and I'm curious how that impacts you as a coach.

Oh, that is a phenomenal question.

So I'm going to say I've seen what would typically be, um,

bucketized as a male approach.

And a female approach, but I've seen it like concurrent.

So for example, it took me a while, but now I'm, I take a very social

radical, rather, I'll say it this way.

My focus is 100 percent on making things better for the men and

women that are doing the work.

So I have a social approach to everything.

I am focused on the human beings.

Yes, the processes and systems are important and that's

what we're going to work on.

With the intent of making things better for people.

And so I've had many really great conversations with leaders.

They're like, man, you know, you take a very soft approach, which they're

saying in a very nice way, a feminine approach, um, or as a masculine approach

is like, just fix the damn thing.

Just go do something, right?

We got to take action.

Why are we sitting here talking?

Why do we got to talk to everybody?

Just tell them what to do.

Sure.

So now I've seen that approach.

We'll say the masculine approach and both men and women.

In executive levels and up, and I think it's because, especially in construction,

because of the way the boys play the game, women are conditioned to be extremely

assertive and extremely aggressive.

So they adopt that behavior.

Now, that being said, I've also been able to observe and study some

phenomenal leaders that are women who naturally, like their instinct.

Their default mode was to take a communal approach.

How are we going to look at this?

How are it's always a we focus and what resources do I need to

provide you or provide the team so that we can overcome that deal?

Um, and so I guess that's kind of a really muddy way to say a broken egg way

to say, yes, that I do see a difference.

And what I'm really, really focused on is helping everybody, whatever gender,

is to come over and take a more human, people, communal approach to problem

solving and building the business.

Very interesting.

Well, I'm kind of curious.

Um, You know, most of us in, in our lives and in business have

experienced both, you know, what I call those mountain top experiences.

Hey, everything's great.

Top of the mountain and those valley experience.

I'm kind of curious.

What is the mindset or position of most of your clients when they come to you?

Do you often find they're in the valley and struggling and grasping

or are they on the mountaintop saying, Hey, I want to stay here?

Oh man, that's a tough question, Todd.

Geez.

Oh, okay.

So I'll say it this way.

What's really interesting is when, when people reach out, they almost always

believe they're in the valley and they believe they're at absolute rock

bottom, which I think is important.

It's not, it's not like a requirement for me, but I think it's important because

that's an indicator of humility, right?

An indication of.

We have things to improve on.

And so when I start learning, you know, we start, okay, help

me understand what's going on.

And almost every time them leaders are like, you know, I'm a little embarrassed

that we're, you know, we're probably going to be the worst client you've ever had.

We probably the most dysfunction.

And when we go through it, I'm like, yeah, no, you're not like, not at all.

That's, this is pretty standard.

And so.

I have one group of amazing leaders, but because they haven't been

able to see what I've been able to see through my career, right?

Working with as a trade contractor, I got to, I got exposed to.

We'll just say hundreds of leadership styles from the G.

C.

Superintendent project managers on the project.

Not all of them.

Well, very, very actually only 3 of them were phenomenal.

The rest were the same, which is bad when I went to work for serving that regional

role, I got to see hundreds of leaders from general from within the general

contractor and other trade organizations.

And I got to see the gambit, right?

Like the spectrum expanded in terms of what bad was and what great was.

And so they are not because those folks are within that group and they've

been there for a long period of time.

They're kind of blind to how amazing or how weak they are.

This one group, phenomenal leadership behavior, like.

I mean, top best in class leadership behavior that is just naturally inherent

in the way they function in the way they make decisions, and they think

they're horrible, like you have no idea.

Y'all are the dang best.

Now, I will say, so in my head, I'm looking at them like you guys are here.

And you're going to go further, right?

There's always room for improvement, or you're going to

stay at the top of the mountain.

There are some people, uh, teams or leaders that are closer to

the valley and they recognize it.

And there's some core fundamental stuff they need that they got to

work on before anything I do is going to be of any benefit to them.

And I have that conversation.

Like, look, I can, I could do stuff.

And I'm going to have fun and your people are going to have fun, but it's

not going to stick because you have some core fundamental ownership stuff that

you need to resolve within your team.

But I wouldn't say those people are in the valley, right?

Because they're aware and they're seeking resource.

Right.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

The ones that are in the valley never know it because

they think they have it figured out.

And they think when, when I say the ones specifically the

leaders that are in the valley.

Are the leaders that don't have a problem and the leaders that know

the answer to everything already.

They're clueless as to how horrible a situation they have and the suffering

that their people are experiencing.

Very interesting.

And, you know, I like what you're saying, you know, you gotta have that humility and

that introspection to really be able to know where you are and see where you are.

Well, can you share with us a story or two maybe of a client that, um,

you really helped them to new levels of success and leadership maybe?

Yeah,

absolutely.

So I got two in one, um, Um, I was still working full time, but it was kind,

it was the awakening moment for me to say, Oh, this is what I want to do.

This is what I'm accidentally great at and what I want to do.

So I was working the guy, he was the significant responsibility in the finance

department for the state of Texas.

And I was coaching him through some problem solving.

And we're going to, if you're familiar with the A3 methodology,

that's the framework that I use, but it's super justified, right?

It's, it's the way I do it.

Um, and so we're working through his problem.

The problem he was trying to solve was outside of his department, totally

outside of his circle of influence, but it was really, it caught his attention.

It was really important to him.

So as we're going through it, he wants to like, this is what we need to do.

I'm like, why, how, why, how is it?

Well, because X, Y, and Z.

It's like, okay, are those factual?

These things that you're saying are the contributing factors.

How do you validate that?

He's like, what do you mean?

I was like, where's the data?

So he's okay.

Let me go find some data.

It's like, yeah, exactly.

Go find out.

So he goes and he gets some more data.

He comes back.

He's like, man, that's not the right thing.

This is really what's happening.

Awesome.

Where'd you learn that from?

Well, from the guys and from the crew and from every, ah, okay, well,

this is what I think we need to do.

It's like, okay, how do you know it's going to work?

Well, what do you mean?

It's like, how do you know the people are even going to adopt your idea?

He says, man, should I ask him to hell?

Yeah, that sounds like a really good idea.

So he went and presented the ideas to the, to the crew, the people who

were studying, and he came back and he's like, man, my ideas were garbage.

They gave me some really phenomenal ideas.

So we're going to do those.

And a couple of them we're going to put on the back burner, maybe

phase two, phase three, them Because we're not ready for them.

And I'm like, awesome.

And in those, that experience, he's, he comes, calls me up one day.

He's like, Jess, I've been doing this wrong my whole career.

It's like, huh?

He's like, man, I just, I feel like I've ruined people's careers

by telling them what to do all the time and driving them down a path

that I thought was the best path.

And I set them up for a lot of friction and failure.

What I should have been teaching them was this, how to listen more, how to

ask questions, how to go and engage with people so that you can build the community

to just solve problems all the time.

And he was really beating up, beating himself up from that point.

He changed the way he leads and function and his now his, his career expanded.

And here's the key point.

It expanded in the direction that he wanted it to.

He now became fully aware of how he wanted to serve others and crafted

the, this third half of his leg, the leg of his career to do what he gets

fulfillment, passion, um, and energy from.

Whereas he was down this other track, which was a pretty fancy, sexy track.

But he hated it.

And that came as a result of the work we did together, which for clarity,

this didn't happen in like a 30 minute sit down or four or five call.

This was months and months of work and dialogue.

That's one example.

Another example is a dear friend of mine, amazing human being, I had a theory that

because I've been exposed to so many leaders in the industry, there were a

handful of people that really stood out to me and they stood out to me because

they had an intense people centered approach to leadership, like almost to

the point that they ignored financial performance, which is dangerous, right?

Um, And I said, okay, these people are amazing.

They're, they're humble.

They speak my language.

They can affect people at a personal level.

How can I amplify their influence?

So I ran an experiment in which that experiment now is known

as emotional bungee jumpers.

I said, Hey, I called those people up.

Then I said, Hey man, I want to try this thing.

Are y'all okay with it?

Yeah.

Okay, cool.

Six of us supposed to be a one day thing turned in.

We did it for a year, once a month.

Um, and now it's turned into an online community.

Anyways, one of those individuals, I mean, three of them, but I'm talking

about one in specific, got very, again, got extremely clear about what

is it that I want to do with myself?

What is it in the way that I treat or interact with people

that is holding me back?

And so she started making big decisions in her personal life

and professional life such that.

It became very clear to her business, like the, the, the officers within that

organization that like, Oh my goodness, we need to design a track to keep this.

Awesome professional with us.

And so they did, they went ahead and said, okay, this is what you want to do.

We see you have the capabilities of doing it.

You're already going out on the ledge and trying being innovative and doing new

things to help us improve our culture.

So we're going to put you on that path.

This is the timeline and she's steadily working down that thing.

And it came from the, the, the small awakenings that we had in working

together and workshopping different stuff.

Uh, which for me, like, I'm just like, Oh, we need her to get there already.

But she's completely content.

She's like, Jesse, you shut up.

You go too fast.

I'm fine with slow and steady.

I'm like, okay, that's fine.

Uh, so those are a couple of examples.

Well, great examples.

And I, and I love what you're doing because.

You know, I, I think a lot of times folks get into leadership and they do fall

into, you know, what I call leaders, the leadership fallacy or the leadership trap

in terms of what they think leadership is.

And a lot of times leadership really is rather than just putting stuff out there

and making it cut and dry and making.

Making things more chewy for your people, making them, making them

think and making them work and making them communicate and work together.

Well, tell us a little about you've, you've written a couple of books.

Um, you want to give us a quick overview of those?

Yeah, sure.

So the first book, um, co wrote with Jennifer Lacey, who she and I do no BS

with Jen and Jess have a live stream every other Saturday at 8 AM central.

We co authored that book, uh, I think it's called Lean and Love 5S Love Letters,

and it's really contextualizing the 5S system, if anybody's heard of it,

sort, set, shine, standardize, sustain.

Contextualizing this system that's typically practiced

in the professional space.

And applying it to personal relationships.

And so I had some love letters, uh, that somebody wrote to me at the

end of like, as our relationship was wearing away and, and that person

contextualize them in this one, I was like, Oh my God, these things are magic.

I couldn't do it, but I knew it would be helpful for a lot of people.

And so a couple, a few years go by Jen and I connect.

I said, Hey Jen, let's have a conversation around these things

and how these ideas apply to work.

We started doing some live streams.

It caught wind, the, the transcripts of those live streams turned in the

source into the source material for that book, and it's, it's kind of a

different type of book, meaning it's not structured as most books are.

Uh, So that one is out there.

It's been out there for, I think, just over two years now.

And then the second book is, um, the, the, it's my book.

It's about, it's got 20 stories of what I lived through.

The title is Becoming the Promise You're Intended to Be.

And it's ideally for anyone that is stuck in self destructive behavior.

Uh, substance abuse, addiction.

This book is intended to help them see that even though they're there

right now, they can make it out with a little bit of resiliency.

They can put Humpty Dumpty back together again and get out there

and serve in the manner that they were best designed to serve.

So those are the two books.

Wow, good thing.

Are those available on Amazon or what's the best way?

Amazon, yes.

Good deal.

Well, tell me a little bit about what happens when you onboard a new client.

What does that look like for them and for you?

What do those early stages look like?

Just to give our listeners kind of a taste for it.

And also, I'm kind of curious, do you work only with construction

companies or have you worked with other types of industries as well?

Oh, I love that.

So I'll address the second question.

First, I haven't done any paid gigs with anybody outside of

the construction industry, but I have helped and contributed

to some nonprofit organizations, some local organizations, right?

Like small teams, personal friends, I'll, I'll help in a.

Some sort of capacity.

Um, now, because these, the things that I work on are human things.

I just have a wealth of knowledge in construction.

Um, or maybe not a wealth of knowledge.

I've just been here long enough for people to think I have a wealth

of knowledge in construction.

Uh, now, in terms of onboarding.

That typically looks like somebody's got an issue, like a, we'll call

them legacy issues, those problems that just seem to never go away.

Uh, or they want to have a shift in their culture, uh, uh,

meaning specifically towards how do we get more people centered?

How do we do things such that, uh, our people have a higher quality experience

while they're doing their job and existing within the organization?

And.

It, I'm nosy.

So I need to know, I really need to understand what are

the, what are you experiencing?

What are other people experiencing?

We can get into data and metrics down the road, but up front, it's

like, what does it feel like?

What's kicking you in the face?

How long has it been kicking you in the face?

What are the politics like do we want to work with the most influential

and responsible people within the organization, or do you want to just

go do some stuff out in the field.

And that's a really important question because what I've observed

over and over and over again.

The default is let's go fix the field.

Let's go fix the install team, which of course, right?

Cause that's where the dollar turns.

However, that's not where the problems start.

That's where the problems surface, the problem start all the way up the ladder.

And so I need to get a feel for where that leader decision maker is in terms of where

they want their, uh, the focus to be.

And I will 100 percent always advocate, even push to when are we going to

go work on the decision makers?

When are we going to go work on them?

Because whatever we do out here at the hands and eye level of the business is

not going to stick if we don't start fixing some stuff that's further upstairs.

Um, and so that usually happens over a series of conversations.

I always try to find a way to meet the team and this is all before

there's even a proposal put together.

Right.

Um, and like whatever that is, if I got, if I can fabricate a way to come

in and do facilitate a conversation, uh, do a lunch and learn or whatever

so that I can meet their people.

It's the most important thing for me, one, because I don't know about you guys, but

I don't like working with jerks, right?

Like, that's not fun.

You know, if there's enough cool people and a few jerks, I could deal with that.

But if everybody's a jerk, why would I put myself in that situation?

And so being able to have some kind of group interaction with their

leaders or with their team helps me get a feel for what's going on.

What I'm dealing with, like, what's their open mindedness?

What kind of, um, what's the level of passive aggressive behavior?

Uh, how direct are they?

Like, I'm, I want to get a feel for that because the more direct you are, the

better, the more fun we're going to have and the faster we're going to progress.

And what's also really important is I'm kind of wacky.

I'm very relaxed.

I have a lot of energy.

You put me in front of more people.

My energy goes up exponentially and some people can't tolerate

that some people like the most common constructive criticism I've

received throughout my career.

Was that I lack executive presence and I'm okay with that.

Some people don't like my flavor and it's important that

they understand what that is.

And so once we have those, we'll call it that first date, then it's like, okay,

let me put together a program or an idea of what I think could help your team.

Let's review it, modify it to your needs, and then, okay, let's make a decision,

let's pull the trigger and get to work.

Good stuff.

Good stuff.

Well, you know, it's, uh, it's apparent that you love what you do

and you're very enthusiastic about it.

Um, where, where does that come from?

I mean, this desire to help others and help others be better.

Um, any idea, you know, what it is in you that really drives that?

100%.

Yeah.

Um, You know, I want to be clear.

Like I, it kind of, it's easy to think that I'm just this altruistic, really

nice person that cares and everybody.

Okay.

But the best way that I've come to understand it is I am a selfish servant.

I am 100 percent about serving others because it keeps me sober.

I've wrestled with addiction for, hell, 20, at least 20, maybe 25 years.

Wow.

I've been sober now, uh, in June will be eight years.

I'll be celebrating, actually when the book, Becoming the Promise launched,

it was on my seventh year birthday of sobriety when we launched the book.

And so for me to serve others and contribute my gifts and talents.

Into their path and, and, and their awakenings keeps me sober.

So that's why I have so much energy is because I've been blessed with gifts

and talents that I can use to serve others when I suppress those life sucks.

And I, it starts leading me down a dangerous path when I start to share them.

It's awesome.

So for you, you're getting those dopamine

hits now from helping others.

And that's a positive thing that, that, uh, drives your life.

I love that.

And yeah, I, I think that can be a missing part in recovery for a lot of

folks is, okay, I've got this monkey.

I get off, get, get off my back and I'm fighting this demon.

What do I replace that with?

And, you know, I, I've got some friends in recovery I work with, and

absolutely the ones who have found something positive to replace that

with are doing a whole lot better in their roads than, than others are.

So very interesting.

We've talked a little bit about addictions and recovery here on the show before,

and we've had a few episodes because it's, it's not uncommon in our industry.

And, uh, so it's, it's led to some great conversations.

Well, I'm kind of curious, what advice would you have to young folks, um, out

there who may be considering a career in, in this great industry we share?

I've got two, I'll say two golden nuggets, both of

which I did not practice, right?

One is learn, listen, but fundamental, like more specifically.

Master the current way things are being done before you start sharing

all your wisdom and ideas and apps and solutions and creative, creative ideas.

Master what's in place first, then present your idea because you have to establish a

body of work in order to earn credibility.

You can't just show up with great ideas, never having

done what is already in place.

Period.

The short way to say that is listen more than you talk.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Especially early on for sure.

Right.

Um, so that's, that's one thing.

The other thing I would say getting into the trade is pick amazing people that

demonstrate the behaviors you aspire to forget about the money yet money's

important, but just spend less money.

You won't need to make more money.

That's pretty simple.

Okay.

But if you pick your leaders and find, like when you're in an interview, you're

not the only one being interviewed, interview that person, find out who has

the skillset, who has the behavior that you aspire to and do whatever you can to,

to be connected with those people, because that will shape your career trajectory.

If you chase the money, it's a distraction to following a predetermined path.

That is not a bad thing, but if you want real fulfillment and real growth, follow

the people you aspire to be, and that's going to take you on the path that that's

really gonna provide you sustainable meaning in terms of fulfillment.

And contributing back out into the world,

man, those are both great advice.

And I've told this story on the show before, but, but

I'm going to tell it again.

I'll try to keep it real short, but, uh, my son, you know, did go the college

route and he came out of college in 2000, right in the midst of the pandemic.

And, you know, so he's trying to find a job in the middle of that when there

were no jobs and you got to experience people vying for even entry level jobs.

And one of the things I finally told him was I said, Go out and find yourself a

company and a leader you want to work for.

Send a letter to that leader and see what happens.

Four years later, he's still working for that company.

Um, absolutely loves it.

Um, loves what he does and you're right.

He's not chasing the money.

He knows he could be doing a whole lot better financially, but instead

he's got a gig that he enjoys and his lifestyle matches it.

So it's all perfect.

Great advice.

Great advice.

Yes.

Well, um, thank you so much, Jesse.

This has been a great, um, get together.

Really enjoyed learning from you.

We're kind of close to wrapping up, uh, what we call the business end of things.

Is there anything that you haven't shared yet with our audience that

you'd like to squeeze in here?

Oh, tell us a little bit about your podcast.

We didn't talk about that.

Oh yeah.

No, thank you for that.

So the podcast, it's called learnings and missteps.

Um, and I interview amazing magical people to help understand the non conventional

path to success that they've traveled so that other people can say, Oh, it's

not a straight line because it ain't.

You are a wealth of wisdom.

I can not imagine how much your clients benefit just from

having time to spend with you.

It's awesome.

So, um, well, we are, Pretty much at the end.

We like to do thing something at the end of the show.

We call our rapid fire questions.

Jesse is not prepared for this.

This is seven questions that we would ask.

Maybe serious, maybe silly.

Um, all I asked to do is give us give us your answer.

Are you willing to participate in rapid fire?

Jesse?

I am.

Let's go.

Awesome.

Well, we will alternate asking questions if that's cool, Ryan,

um, I'll let you ask the first one.

I would love to.

Question number one.

What is the most interesting place you have ever visited?

Jesse land.

That's the space between my ears.

Is that a big space?

A few crazy things in there.

Well, I have a feeling.

So question number two, I have a feeling I know what you're going to answer.

I'll ask it anyway.

If you could have any job in the world, what would it be?

Oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, that, the, the job, any job in the world

that I could have would be escorting people down the path of self discovery.

So

it's kind of what you're doing.

Yeah, kind of.

Don't tell anybody.

Which is what I thought your answer would be.

Jesse Land, that's my, that's my job I want.

Question number three, what's a fun fact about yourself

that most people do not know?

Oh, so fun fact about me in seventh grade there

when Miss Evans class, there was a chivalry contest, uh, because we

were studying like medieval times.

I won the chivalry contest, not just because I was carrying ladies books and

opening doors and pulling out chairs, because Kind of how mom brought me up,

but I did study on night, like how did people back then, um, what was like

the rituals the squires went through when they were up for knighthood.

And so one of the things that they did was they'd go and they'd go to

the church and they'd pray and do these things and they would, um, one

I heard bathed in, in a tub of milk.

So the night before the voting was going to happen, I snuck out.

I went to the church, lit some candles, did some prayer, which is something I

never like, nobody will believe that.

But I did that and I got home and I filled the tub up with water.

And because I didn't want to get whooped by mom, I poured a little

bit of milk in the tub in the tub.

And I say, I still promised.

That's why I won the, the, that chivalry championship.

Wow.

Well, it might be a little bit to have to do with just who you are too, Jesse.

I don't know.

You know, it's kind of interesting.

I think other schools do this too, but our local school system has a program called

guys and ties and girls and pearls where they try to teach some of those things.

And I just think it's awesome.

Okay.

Fourth question.

How long does it take you to get up and around and out

of the house in the morning?

My general practice, it's probably within the first 60 minutes

of the day that I'm out of the house.

Uh, and I say within the first 60 minutes, because sometimes when I

wake up, it's like, okay, I gotta go, I gotta go get my mileage in and,

and get running, get out the door.

Sometimes I have an idea that The whispers gave me in the middle of my dream.

So I need to sit down and journal about it before it evaporates and then drink my

coffee and then go hit, hit the trails.

Uh, but it's usually within the first hour, then I'm up and out.

Good deal.

Next question.

If you had to wear a hat every day for the rest of your life, what kind

of hat would you choose to wear?

Oh, man, I don't know the proper name, but you know, the, like

the fifties gangster Type hat or the hats that they wore during the zoot suit era.

It would absolutely be, I'd have an array of colors of those types of hats.

With feathers, feathers in

them.

I think that's a lost arts.

When you, when you see old pictures or videos, every guy had a hat on.

We should bring back hats right here on construction disruption.

That could be a fun little twist to surprise each other

with a different hat every episode.

Okay.

Next to last question.

I think this is me again.

Um, if you could only eat one type of dessert for the rest of your life,

what type of dessert would you eat?

Oh, man, that's a hard question.

Um, what type of dessert would I eat?

So my mom makes these, I don't even know the appropriate name, but they're

like lemon, lemon, orange meringue type.

I don't know.

Oh yeah.

They're dangerous.

Like, and by dangerous, I mean, it doesn't matter how big the bat she makes that

for me to bring home, they will almost all be gone before I get to my driveway.

They're so good.

Good deal.

Final question.

What is your least favorite vegetable?

Maybe something you just absolutely refuse to eat with resilience.

I like that.

Let's see.

My least favorite vegetable.

Man, I'm pretty does.

What's that stuff?

Wasabi.

Does that count as a vegetable?

I don't know.

It might be made from a vegetable.

Yeah, I think that would probably radishes,

radishes,

radishes.

Yeah, no, no, no good.

So, so the thing I have found, if you roast radishes,

they actually take on a sweet taste.

They're pretty amazing.

Yeah, if you roast them, I like to roast radishes and, uh, I think I put them with

carrots usually, if I remember right.

Okay.

Slice them real thin and they actually, the sweet, they

caramelize and the sweetness.

Yeah, anyway, I'm way off topic here.

They are good though.

I don't like them raw though.

I'm with you.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, Jesse, this has been great.

This has been inspirational and a heck of a lot of fun too.

So, um, if folks want to get in touch with you or see what you're up to, um, what

are the ways they can most easily do that?

Yeah, the two easiest ways.

One is you can go to the website, depth, builder.

com, and you can find all the stuff that I have out there, which is

kind of messy, but it's what it is.

Um, and LinkedIn in terms of where I spend most of my time

on social media is LinkedIn.

So if you just type Jesse depth builder, um, you can find me and I'm,

I'm posting all the time, interacting, supporting, et cetera, and I'd love to

connect with, with your folks on that.

Awesome.

And we will put that in the show notes as well.

Um, thank you again.

What a pleasure this has been.

And to let our audience know, we did all fulfill our challenge words for Ryan.

His was almost the very last word he said, um, resilience

right at the end.

Good job.

And, uh, Jesse, your word was actually a phrase, Humpty

Dumpty.

Yes!

Cheers!

I got it!

You worked it in well.

Did a great, yeah, great job sneaking that

in.

I don't think anyone noticed at all.

Um, and my word was chewy, which I got in there.

I was, that was more challenging than I thought it was going to be, to be honest.

And I kept thinking of one, one episode we had a challenge word of, Was it chuggy?

Is that what it was, Ryan?

This word that the kids use?

Yeah, it was the word I put it out there.

I think it was chuggy or something like that.

Like

old people trying to look young or something like that?

Trying to be hip.

Cool.

I used to think I would try to be hip and cool, but I've passed that.

Well, this has been great.

Thank you so much.

And I want to thank our audience to, uh, to for tuning into this very special

episode of construction disruption with Jesse Hernandez of depth builder.

Um, please watch for future episodes of our podcasts.

We're always blessed with great guests.

Just like Jesse.

Um, don't forget to leave a review.

We love to Those, um, but until the next time we're together, keep on

disrupting, keep on challenging, keep on looking for better ways of doing things.

And most importantly, as Jesse has pointed out as well, don't forget to have a

positive impact on everyone you encounter, make them smile, encourage them.

Uh, just simple yet powerful things you can do to change the world for someone.

So, uh, God bless and take care.

This is Isaiah industries signing off until the next episode

of construction disruption.

This podcast is produced by Isaiah Industries, manufacturer of specialty

metal roofing and other building products.