Intro: Hey folks, it's Marvin Cash, the host of the Articulate Fly.

Intro: On this episode, I'm joined by Pennsylvania young gun, Brendan Roosh.

Intro: We talk pre-spawn smallmouth, tying predator flies, and his newly launched guide

Intro: company, Roosh Angling.

Intro: I think you're really going to enjoy this one, but before we get to interview,

Intro: just a couple of housekeeping items.

Intro: If you like the podcast, please tell a friend and please subscribe and leave

Intro: us a rating and reviewing the podcatcher of your choice. It really helps us out.

Intro: And we're excited to partner with our friends at Jesse Brown's to bring the

Intro: Chocolate Factory to Charlotte on May 4th.

Intro: Blaine will be teaching private tying classes, discussing predator and prey,

Intro: and sharing his favorite rod, reel, and line combos.

Intro: Check out the link in the show notes for more details.

Intro: Now, on to the interview.

Marvin: Well, Brendan, welcome to the Articulate Fly.

Brendan: Thanks for having me. Excited to be here. year yeah.

Marvin: I'm really looking forward to our conversation and we have a tradition on the

Marvin: articulate fly we like to ask all of our guests to share their earliest fishing memory.

Brendan: Uh there are so many memories i was trying to think about this earlier today

Brendan: um but basically just being on a reservoir with my dad throwing texas rigged

Brendan: soft plastics at lily pads heads,

Brendan: catching large mouth bass.

Brendan: My favorite memory from that era would be catching a very, very large fish on

Brendan: a top water frog and being heartbroken that he wouldn't let me keep it.

Brendan: Which, you know, today I totally understand why and I respect that decision.

Brendan: But man, I was pretty, pretty annoyed in the moment.

Marvin: Yeah. So before we go down the fly path, you know, what's your favorite color

Marvin: worm and what's your favorite color lizard?

Brendan: Hey, uh, for the worm, I think we were fishing a lot of, uh,

Brendan: I was grabbing the black and purple power worm.

Brendan: Then the lizard, I believe was pumpkin seed with a chartreuse tail.

Marvin: Yeah. Well, there you go. And so that's a really great segue into,

Marvin: you know, when did you start fly fishing?

Brendan: Uh, fly fishing came pretty late to me because no one in my family fly fish.

Brendan: So, uh, I had a pretty good foundation fishing for large mouth and some trout

Brendan: fishing, but But I started fly fishing senior year of high school.

Brendan: And it's only because I was getting outfished by fly fishermen on a trout stream in northeast VA.

Brendan: So it was out of necessity.

Marvin: Yeah, so the power bait and the spinners weren't getting it done?

Brendan: Yeah, those little jerk baits just weren't getting it done like those pheasant tails were.

Marvin: And so, of course, it's obviously been kind of downhill from there.

Marvin: So kind of who are some folks that have mentored you on your fly fishing journey?

Marvin: What have they taught you?

Brendan: There are a lot of people. Pretty much all of them are tied in with TCO one way or another.

Brendan: But John Parisi, Lenny Gliwa of TCO Bryn Mawr, that's where I got my start of

Brendan: my obsession in fly fishing.

Brendan: I got a job there like 2016.

Brendan: So they really got me dialed in on the trout stuff. We traveled a lot together

Brendan: in the state, but, you know, driving a few hours here and there on kind of like suicide run day trips.

Brendan: And then when it came to bass, it was it was Jake Golok kind of showed me the

Brendan: light that I could I could do what I loved, you know, as a kid, but with a fly.

Marvin: Yeah, that's pretty cool. And so when did you, you know, I imagine you probably

Marvin: kind of started out at TCO as a shop rat, right?

Marvin: Oh, yeah. And then, so when did you get the guide bug?

Brendan: Jake started to get busy enough to hire another guide.

Brendan: And it was right around maybe like my second year of employment there.

Brendan: There, he, we started kind of like float or he, he floated the idea past me

Brendan: and, uh, I bought a raft, started fishing, like you're floating every chance

Brendan: I could with, you know, guys from the shop, uh, from all four stores really.

Brendan: And, um, yeah, I mean, he, he brought me on and just kind of let me loose once he felt comfortable.

Marvin: Yeah. It's pretty interesting. We've had him on the podcast probably about the

Marvin: time, I guess his small mouth, you know, fly book came out and,

Marvin: you know, was interesting kind of how he was able to really kind of scale relentless yeah.

Brendan: It's there are so many uh you know guides under the relentless umbrella it's

Brendan: uh it's very very impressive and i had a great time working for those guys.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting too because i guess uh naguski is under that umbrella

Marvin: too he's been on and uh as a matter of fact i think i met him when i met you

Marvin: at the probably the last fly tying symposium before covid right oh.

Brendan: Right yeah yeah.

Marvin: Um the It was a good time. Yeah, it wasn't. Absolutely, it was a good time and a simpler time.

Marvin: And, you know, so obviously I imagine Jake was influential. But,

Marvin: you know, who are some of the other folks that have kind of mentored you on

Marvin: your guide journey? And what do they teach you?

Brendan: So there are a lot of guides that work with TCO.

Brendan: And there was one in particular named Sam Galt that, I mean,

Brendan: he's been guiding for Trout in the state college area for years.

Brendan: And I was very nervous accepting money to take people fishing,

Brendan: especially like, you know, the first year.

Brendan: Um, and he, he kind of calmed me down and, uh, you know, he just, he told me,

Brendan: what, what the people expect, which I think is just to go out,

Brendan: have a good time, uh, and hopefully take something away from the day.

Brendan: You know, if it's not fish, it's going to be new tactics or,

Brendan: you know, some bad jokes or something.

Marvin: I like your jokes, actually.

Brendan: Sometimes they're pretty rough.

Marvin: It's okay. That's why this is a family show and we took some questions out.

Marvin: But anybody else that's kind of helped either steer you from a technical perspective

Marvin: or, you know, kind of what you were talking about earlier, kind of that kind

Marvin: of people skill, that expectation part of guiding?

Brendan: Um yeah i mean from the technical aspects like fishing

Brendan: with jake uh you know on the waters that we

Brendan: we got it on or we got on still um that

Brendan: was critical uh and then i traveled out

Brendan: to michigan with jake back in 2018 to fish

Brendan: with mike schultz justin kerbanek and james hughes and i don't think i've looked

Brendan: at smallmouth fishing the same since that trip i learned a ton of tactics from

Brendan: you Got a little piece of the pie put together from three of those guys.

Brendan: And yeah, I mean, the swim fly game out there and the way they use those flies

Brendan: to basically imitate lures that I was familiar with growing up.

Brendan: Yeah, I mean, it's an invaluable skill to have on the water.

Marvin: Yeah, you know, it's interesting because, I mean, I've kind of noticed that,

Marvin: you know, however you want to kind of brand them, the most successful people

Marvin: in our sport are, let's just say ambidextrous, right? They fish gear and they fish fly.

Marvin: And, you know, it's amazing because I know, you know, Blaine certainly does that.

Marvin: George Daniel does that. And I think that insight about fish behavior and how

Marvin: to catch them on gear and on bait, you know, really can make you a killer,

Marvin: you know, fly fishing angler.

Brendan: Yeah, I think specifically for presentations that require like a proper retrieve

Brendan: and you're fishing a fly as opposed to drifting.

Brendan: So like dry fly fishing, then fishing, maybe not learning a ton from gear fishing.

Brendan: But when you're working a lure or retrieving a fly...

Brendan: You know what's successful on the lure and over time you learn what's successful

Brendan: on the fly by fish input but um you're able to emulate lures like pretty successfully

Brendan: other than maybe like true bottom bouncing just because you're going to get

Brendan: hung up a lot more with a fly.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting too because i mean you know we were

Marvin: both up in uh up in michigan for bob in the hood and

Marvin: i had never i'd been around mike but i hadn't kind of been in his shop and kind

Marvin: of seen the vibe there and i got to tell you that is an amazing operation that

Marvin: he's got with some incredibly um you know knowledgeable faithful and really

Marvin: just kind of great guys in the shop in terms of fishing gear and not gear.

Brendan: Yeah i was talking to

Brendan: someone about this recently um but they were like yeah man like the guys at

Brendan: mike's shop are always like super helpful and super knowledgeable and like he's

Brendan: been lucky enough to find guys that are sick for fishing like they're obsessed

Brendan: with it and some shops you know

Brendan: you have guys that are very personable but maybe not the techiest guys,

Brendan: um but yeah i mean they they've got a guy that does every kind of fishing you

Brendan: know available in the midwest and uh they're they're all pretty darn good at it yeah.

Marvin: Or you could walk into a fly shop in Montana in like middle of late September

Marvin: and basically have people super burned out.

Brendan: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Marvin: I've walked into that buzzsaw before, you know, so you've, I mean,

Marvin: yeah, it's just, they don't even care about fishing at that point anymore.

Marvin: Right. The, but, you know, so tell me a little bit about, you know,

Marvin: kind of as you've kind of worked on your guide chops, you know,

Marvin: what do you think is the secret to being a good guide, Brendan?

Brendan: I think it's being malleable and

Brendan: trying to be, you know, what the client wants you to be in that moment.

Brendan: I mean, especially when you're dealing with people that you've never met before,

Brendan: or maybe you've only chatted with on the phone briefly.

Brendan: Like from a personal standpoint like you know it's essentially,

Brendan: you know you're in customer service from the customer side and the fishing is separate in my opinion,

Brendan: same kind of thing with the shop like you can be a great shop guy but maybe

Brendan: defer questions to other people when it gets too technical,

Brendan: if you can be good at both I think that's what makes a great guide,

Brendan: Got it.

Marvin: And do you have a type of angler that you really, really like?

Marvin: I know you like, you know, you like to fish with everybody.

Marvin: But I mean, is there a particular type of angler that you like to get in your

Marvin: boat that you're like, this is going to be an exceptionally special day?

Marvin: Like, you know, I know some people like to teach. Some people like teaching kids.

Marvin: You know, is there anything like that that, you know, really gets you stoked for a day out?

Brendan: Uh, besides someone that is like down to learn and hunt big fish.

Brendan: I mean, like if, if I have a father son trip, that is going to be the best possible day.

Brendan: Like it just, it reminds me of, you know, being a kid fishing with my dad and

Brendan: fishing my grandfather and, uh, being a part of someone else's memories,

Brendan: you know, it's pretty special.

Marvin: Yeah. That's super cool. And so what do you think? I always ask guides this

Marvin: question too, you know, what do you think is the biggest misconception people

Marvin: have about the life of a fishing guide? Yeah.

Brendan: I think it varies for a lot of people, but, uh, you know, if you're,

Brendan: you're single, single income, you know, it can be kind of a little challenging in the off season.

Brendan: Um, especially if you're, you know, if you're not going to like,

Brendan: I'm lucky enough where I can muskie fish in the off season.

Brendan: I'm going to be doing some, some guiding here this coming year.

Brendan: But, uh, yeah, I think finding something to occupy your time in the off season,

Brendan: whether it be, you know, a side job or a different hobby, it's pretty important.

Brendan: And they don't go stir crazy.

Marvin: Yeah, and so it's kind of funny, and we talked about this a little bit at the

Marvin: beginning of the interview, you know.

Marvin: I mean, you know, people, I think, when they think about, like,

Marvin: central PA, they think probably trout first and not smallmouth,

Marvin: and, you know, you predominantly guide for smallmouth.

Marvin: You know, what kind of attracted you to them over trout?

Brendan: It's all about retrieving flies and fooling fish and watching them come in and

Brendan: just, like, If a fish is coming in kind of lazy and making it convert into an

Brendan: eat, that's really, really cool.

Brendan: Smallmouth provide chances for savage eats in the springtime.

Brendan: But you can get some sick eats in the summertime, subsurface too.

Brendan: But then in the summer, you can fish poppers aggressively.

Brendan: Watch them crush a popper or a whopper plopper if you're savvy.

Brendan: Savvy, but they'll also sip... The biggest fish in the river is going to sip

Brendan: a cork bug or a foam like Mr. Wiggly or something.

Brendan: For me, it's all about,

Brendan: being able to actively retrieve the fly and you're just a huge part of why that fish is eating.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting i mean the uh kind of the summer bug thing i mean it's

Marvin: insanely frustrating to watch those guys skate for like six or eight feet behind

Marvin: a popper um and uh you twitch it and then they disappear which is kind of a bummer right yeah.

Brendan: Yeah and you could twitch it and have the fish do a 180 after it turns around

Brendan: or you could have a you you know, a fish spook off of it.

Brendan: I think that's kind of the cool thing about, about summer is like each fish

Brendan: shows its individual personality when you're bug fishing.

Marvin: Yeah. It's, it's interesting. Cause you know, kind of where I grew up kind of

Marvin: fishing the James and the Maury and places like that.

Marvin: It's, um, that heat is just so brutal, you know, and I have people kind of,

Marvin: you know, up in the mountains or maybe up where you are, they tell me that it's

Marvin: not as humid and hot, but you know, I always say, you know, So in July and August,

Marvin: you're not in the shade and the fish are.

Brendan: Yeah, exactly.

Marvin: And it makes, you know, 95 degrees and high humidity makes for a pretty grim

Marvin: outing. But yeah, it's good stuff.

Marvin: And, you know, it's interesting, too, because we were talking before we started

Marvin: recording, Brendan, about kind of the regional differences in smallmouth fisheries.

Marvin: Like I know, you know, the timber creates a certain element,

Marvin: you know, in Michigan, for example.

Marvin: You know, their seasonal differences, you know, based on how far north or south

Marvin: you are and kind of how big your water is,

Marvin: you know, how do you, you know, what do you see, I guess, in Pennsylvania that

Marvin: makes your smallmouth fisheries different than, say, Michigan and other places in the country?

Brendan: I think the lack of dams in the South Central PA region, like wood moves around a lot.

Brendan: We have a ton of ledges on every body of water I fish, some more than others, depending on the float.

Brendan: But you have bottom structure that's going to hold fish from bank to bank.

Brendan: Like some people go out there and pound the banks. you

Brendan: can go out there you can fish left bank middle

Brendan: sometimes you know the other bank's going to be good too but um

Brendan: the fish are going to be very spread out because there

Brendan: is structure almost everywhere in a

Brendan: lot of places they're on a lot of floats um so yeah learning learning those

Brendan: leggy sections during low water seasons is is crucial um because then you can

Brendan: hit those spots when you know the water's high and green and still be productive

Brendan: when they're not on the banks or per se yeah.

Marvin: Got it and you know it's interesting too because i think we're kind of really

Marvin: kind of in the thick of pre-spawn smallmouth fishing here kind of in the mid-atlantic

Marvin: and i was kind of curious if you could uh if i could pry a couple tips for you

Marvin: to share with our listeners about how to be successful during this time of the year on the water.

Brendan: Yeah, I think the most common mistake I see this time of year from people coming

Brendan: on the boat, and it could be friends, fellow industry guys, the fly has to kick, maybe kick twice,

Brendan: and then pause long enough for those fish to want to move out of their lie and eat it.

Brendan: We haven't really hit over 52-degree water temps yet.

Brendan: Um so like fishing has got to be slow right now and when i have a guy that can

Brendan: really dial in like rod tip movements or even like an aggressive upstream mend into his presentation,

Brendan: usually that's when i we're gonna have the most success that day got.

Marvin: It so it's almost uh you know the fish are kind of sluggish and so you kind

Marvin: of have to kind of bonk them on the nose a little bit and kind of um piss them

Marvin: off to get them to eat i guess.

Brendan: Yeah i mean it's it's

Brendan: kind of just like imitating a wounded fish it's gonna kick side to side and

Brendan: then right now we're fishing a lot of like circus peanuts um personally i'm

Brendan: fishing if i'm going out right now i'm fishing a leggy boy every time because

Brendan: i think that's kind of filled the circus peanut um role in my fly arsenal,

Brendan: but you're able to fish that fly as fast as you want or as slow as you want.

Brendan: And if you add enough legs to offset the weight in the fly, that thing's going

Brendan: to glide, hover, and then start to drop real slow.

Brendan: But it's always going to stay where you want it to stay as long as you give it slack or tension.

Marvin: Got it. I was getting ready to say. So really the attraction for that fly is

Marvin: really the ability to kind of hang it or suspend it.

Brendan: Yeah yeah yeah definitely like an unweighted changer and a sinking line isn't

Brendan: going to get you the same results that you can get with an intermediate line and a weighted fly that,

Brendan: it's weighted but there's so much drag from

Brendan: the legs and the brush head and you know if you tie the the body pretty dense

Brendan: with the feathers like you can make that fly hang there and that's when they're

Brendan: going to swim through at this time of year like they they don't want to see

Brendan: that thing diving to the bottom uh or being stripped you know perpendicular

Brendan: from the bank or something like that got.

Marvin: It and for people that i guess aren't familiar with the leggy boy i guess kind

Marvin: of the i guess the way i kind of think about it is it's kind of like a feather

Marvin: changer with a bunch of legs on it.

Brendan: Yeah totally yeah um so i i fish them with like a pretty long stiff marabou tail tail.

Brendan: Um, so if I can find marabou feathers, like maybe like the, you know,

Brendan: short stubby ones, um, still like uniform and good quality, but they have a

Brendan: little bit thicker, um, like vein or stem.

Brendan: Um, so I'll tie four of those in and that allows the tail to whip a little bit

Brendan: more like rooster tail, but still swim and undulate on those long pauses.

Marvin: Yeah. It's almost like you want the mirror boo that you don't want for kind of willy boogers yeah.

Brendan: Yeah like i don't want it to be too sparse otherwise you don't really get as

Brendan: much of a kick if you're hard stripping it.

Marvin: And so for you and in pre-spawn you know when do you expect to kind of to see

Marvin: see the bass kind of you know move from pre-spawn to spawn it kind of what's

Marvin: the water temperature that you

Marvin: kind of set like you know we got to leave them alone for a little while

Marvin: and go chase trout or go do something else uh.

Brendan: Usually it's right around like april 15th here um and you know like as you become

Brendan: more familiar with the body of water you know where the beds are going to be

Brendan: so you know you can row over there and say oh yep there are two beds and then

Brendan: you know go on about your way like fishing the middle of the river or fishing current seams,

Brendan: but uh yeah i'm i'm anti messing with bed fish at this point like not necessary

Brendan: you're still going to find fish that are either post-spawn or pre-spawn while their fish are on beds.

Marvin: Yeah i think it's a tough thing too particularly kind of like where i grew up

Marvin: and fished in central virginia we've had you know probably most years out of

Marvin: the last probably eight to ten we've had these scouring floods during the spawn

Marvin: um yeah and so kind of whatever you can do to leave them alone so that there

Marvin: are a few more in the river, I think is a good idea.

Brendan: Yeah, for sure. And, you know, if you're bed fishing, I feel like what you're

Brendan: doing is testing your, your accuracy at that point.

Brendan: Cause if something falls on the bed, like the fish is going to move it,

Brendan: you know, it is what they do. They're like programmed to do that.

Marvin: Yeah. It's kind of interesting. I don't know. Did you, uh, did you go see the

Marvin: F3T movies and there was one about them and then they were basically fishing

Marvin: for peacock bass on beds?

Brendan: Uh, I did not see them this year.

Marvin: Yeah, it was kind of interesting. I was like, that's kind of weird.

Marvin: I mean, you know, something that most fly anglers generally won't do,

Marvin: but I guess to each his own. I don't have a movie though, so.

Marvin: Not yet. Not yet. Well, it's coming, folks. And so, you know,

Marvin: the interesting thing is you've kind of gone out on your own,

Marvin: you've got Roosh Angling, and so I'm always curious too to kind of,

Marvin: you know, you've had time to kind of build, you know, kind of what you like

Marvin: your daily program to be.

Marvin: Why don't you let us know a little bit about kind of what a day on the water

Marvin: is like with Brendan Roosh?

Brendan: Um so we're gonna meet at the ramp put the boat in do a shuttle and uh i think

Brendan: one of the most important questions i ask for some people is uh do you want

Brendan: to listen to music on the boat,

Brendan: and uh if you say yes it's probably going to be a pretty fun day but uh yeah i mean i we're just

Brendan: locked in fishing hard with

Brendan: many breaks for laughter um fist bumps but

Brendan: yeah i mean it really depends on person to person but a lot of people at this

Brendan: point are you know they've been in the boat with me before um so we're kind

Brendan: of dialing in the program for that day um tactics wise and i'm joking around

Brendan: and having fun in between yeah.

Marvin: And so you know you've piqued my curiosity on the the music side so you know

Marvin: what are your three favorite boat playlists.

Brendan: Haha uh,

Brendan: Anyone that knows me knows I have to say, like, Doja Cat and Dua Lipa.

Brendan: But my guys I had today, we had a great experience last year fishing the DMX pretty much all day.

Brendan: You know, what these fishes want, that's a good one.

Brendan: But, yeah, I mean, you know, if someone requests music, we're obviously going to listen to that.

Brendan: But usually kind of upbeat, pop, or, like, future, for instance.

Brendan: Get some, you know, some hard vibes on the boat.

Brendan: Usually pretty confidence inspiring yeah.

Marvin: So you're not doing yacht rock like steely dan or anything like that.

Brendan: I've been known to play some yacht rock depending on the crowd.

Marvin: And do you generally do you prefer for people to fish your gear um or do you

Marvin: like them to bring their own or do you not care.

Brendan: I'll i'll give you a list uh and you

Brendan: know if you don't have an intermediate line you have let's say

Brendan: like a 25 foot sinking line type

Brendan: six then yeah you're fishing myself but you know

Brendan: if you have a an eight weight with an intermediate line and

Brendan: we're totally in good shape you can you can fish your

Brendan: gear I'll build you a leader yeah no preference for me but I do have you know

Brendan: a whole fleet of Loomis rods right now we're fishing the NX plus swim flies

Brendan: and it's a pretty good experience yeah.

Marvin: And so do you generally fish an intermediate or do you also like to fish a floater.

Brendan: I don't do a ton of floating line fishing in the springtime.

Brendan: Obviously, in the summertime, topwater fishing, yeah, definitely.

Brendan: But if we're on one of the bigger rivers in the spring, a sink tip,

Brendan: like type 3 or type 6, can be really useful.

Brendan: Because then you can kind of play a neutrally buoyant fly, almost like a leggy

Brendan: buoy, where you're letting that short tip dig when it has slack.

Brendan: And then you're working that column. And then, uh, you can either introduce

Brendan: tension or introduce slack, just like you would to the fly on a leggy boy.

Marvin: Uh, got it. And so I guess maybe your water's bigger. Cause I know some guys

Marvin: like to fish like floaters when they're fishing crayfish and things.

Marvin: Cause I like to get that up and down action. Right.

Marvin: Um, but it sounds like you're doing the same thing with deep in deeper water,

Marvin: uh, with sink tips, right?

Brendan: Yeah. With the same tip thing, that's, you know, spring flows on the bigger

Brendan: river, like Susquehanna, Juniata.

Brendan: A um it allows you to get

Brendan: that hard kick and you know almost

Brendan: glide out of those neutrally buoyant flies um like

Brendan: a brush head deceiver from alex lapkus is a big one i'm a fan of um but yeah

Brendan: so it allows you to get that kick pause and before the lines start dragging

Brendan: it down you can get a real nice like you know two count hang before it starts to get tension again got.

Marvin: It and you know know, it's interesting, you know, you know, I met you kind of

Marvin: through tying. So I was kind of curious, you know, when did you get interested in being a fly tire?

Brendan: Uh when i first started at tco i for some

Brendan: reason i didn't think i would tie flies i was like oh i thought

Brendan: i could just buy him i'll buy him um and then

Brendan: of course you know a couple months into working there uh my buddy uh

Brendan: casey the giovanni was like come on man you gotta tie flies like you can't work

Brendan: here and not tie um so he set up a vice and uh i think we tied a squirmy wormy

Brendan: that day um actually i tied an f fly with john parisi before that the brimmar shot,

Brendan: um i think it's called a fly it's like some sort of like tent wing dry fly maybe cdc,

Brendan: but uh yeah so i got i got uh i got into time shortly after working at tco and

Brendan: once i started streamer fishing is when i i just became obsessed with it i don't

Brendan: know how much money i've spent on streamer fly tying but i know i never want

Brendan: to see that number well yeah i.

Marvin: Was with you guys in michigan and it was kind of funny watching you and braden

Marvin: and austin talk about how much money you had in your baskets.

Brendan: Oh my god yeah schultz outfitters is like uh you know it's a place you don't

Brendan: want to be if you have loose loose morals when it comes to spending money Yeah.

Marvin: It's kind of like the world's largest cannabis shop, except it's for a predator fly tying material.

Brendan: Oh, yeah, for sure.

Marvin: Yeah.

Brendan: He's got everything you could ever want.

Marvin: So what do you tie on today?

Brendan: Um, I tie on a Renzetti presentation 2000 with the game changer jaws that Blaine designed.

Brendan: And I've been tying on that for like three years.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting. I've got two travelers here on my desk.

Marvin: I used to have one for the office and one for the house and now the office is at the house.

Marvin: So I have two of them. So, um, yeah, it's interesting. I mean,

Marvin: I, I love them. They're indestructible.

Marvin: Um, and now the next time I go tie on them, I'll probably break something.

Marvin: But, yeah, it's interesting, too, on the predator-fly thing because,

Marvin: you know, I kind of look at kind of the evolution, and it's kind of almost like

Marvin: the way that space is developed,

Marvin: it's almost kind of an old-school way where people had to go back and figure

Marvin: out stuff, kind of like, you know, previous generations had to figure stuff

Marvin: out because you couldn't just go watch a YouTube video.

Marvin: I mean, now you can for some stuff. But, you know, all of the,

Marvin: you know, design and thought process and problem solving to me,

Marvin: you know, in that space has been very, very old school.

Brendan: Yeah, I mean, they're basically starting from ground zero.

Brendan: I mean, they had hooks and shanks, but the shanks weren't what they are today, obviously.

Brendan: I think like, you know, the circus peanut, uh, I wasn't around fishing back

Brendan: then, but, uh, I mean, it's obviously made a huge impact.

Brendan: So that would be Russ Madden circus peanut, um, super versatile fly and,

Brendan: you know, getting the two hook platform going definitely changed everything.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting, you know, like talking to Blaine about him,

Marvin: like literally in his garage, cutting shanks with bolt cutters.

Marvin: Right. Now we just go and there are multiple companies and you just buy what you want.

Brendan: Yeah. You're pretty fortunate.

Marvin: Yeah. As opposed to basically drinking beer in the garage with a vice and a

Marvin: pair of bolt cutters every Sunday afternoon.

Brendan: Yeah. I mean, I was very lucky because the Schultz Outfitters YouTube was just

Brendan: kind of, I guess, getting started when I started tying these flies.

Brendan: Um so like you know the first feather game changer video i must have watched

Brendan: that while i was tying like 200 times like each shank like all right are these proportions right,

Brendan: um i definitely am a perfectionist when it comes to fly tying so i'll i'll spend

Brendan: way too much time on a fly just because i know if i don't like the way it looks i'm never gonna fish it,

Brendan: But yeah, YouTube and looking at Instagram photos for Density and Taper was

Brendan: definitely a very big influence on me.

Brendan: So that would be the Schultz Outfitters account and then obviously Blaine Chocolates account.

Marvin: Yeah. And so if you're a perfectionist tying flies, does that make it more likely

Marvin: that you'll scream at clients that lose flies on the first cast?

Brendan: We don't lose flies.

Marvin: Are you a scuba diver? or do you have like fins and a mask and you're like,

Marvin: you know, diving down, pulling them off of logs and rocks?

Brendan: No, I've been known to sacrifice a rod tip for a fly.

Brendan: But yeah, I mean, we get, we get them.

Marvin: Yeah. That's an interesting use of the lifetime warranty, but you got to do

Marvin: what you got to do, right?

Brendan: Yeah, for sure.

Marvin: So you mentioned Blaine and you mentioned the guys at Schultz's,

Marvin: you know, who are some other tires that have influenced you in your,

Marvin: your development as a predator fly tire?

Brendan: Um we're going back to michigan and it's going to be russ madden and alex lapis for sure,

Brendan: the lapis brush head deceiver i think that

Brendan: video dropped like three years ago and it was very interesting to me because

Brendan: it was basically like taking elements from maybe like the swing and d platform

Brendan: and applying it to a much easier fly to tie and cast,

Brendan: maybe not easier to tie but it's going to be a shorter time at the vice and

Brendan: it ended up proving to be really crucial in the guide program because someone that can't cast,

Brendan: 30 hen saddle feathers wrapped on a bunch of shanks they can cast this fly that's,

Brendan: bucktail, craft fur two shlopped feathers and two rooster saddle feathers for the tail Got it.

Marvin: And what about Russ's designs? What kind of caught you there?

Brendan: Um the circus peanut being like tied in the round like a changer like i i started tying peanuts,

Brendan: right around the time i started tying feather changers so

Brendan: like both of them kind of blended together as i

Brendan: was tying them because it was similar um i guess

Brendan: tactics and the way you tie them um or

Brendan: methods similar methods but uh yeah the

Brendan: peanut early on in my like pre-spawn

Brendan: fishing was crucial because you're you're getting those flies down right

Brendan: away off the bank or off the structure and depending

Brendan: on how you know you can put lead eyes tongues and

Brendan: beads you can put bead chain eyes but you can tweak

Brendan: that fly to match the conditions you have and i think that was really cool to

Brendan: like from a not a design perspective but just tying what you need to match the

Brendan: current conditions it's important and eventually you know i'm in year seven

Brendan: i think Like, I have all those flies still.

Brendan: And, uh, it's like you have a whole arsenal of different weighted flies to basically

Brendan: accomplish any task that you run into.

Marvin: Yeah. It's funny you say that while you were saying that it made me think about

Marvin: like my bonefish box, right.

Marvin: With the different, uh, eye weights, right. And you have them arranged and that's

Marvin: like the whole, the whole nine yards, right. One feet, two feet, three feet of water.

Brendan: Yeah.

Marvin: And so who, in addition, you know, to Russ, has kind of influenced you as you've

Marvin: kind of developed on the tying front?

Brendan: Um, so I, I did, uh, I spent a couple of summers on Jake's couch and we would,

Brendan: uh, you know, if we had the energy, um, we would stay up tying flies and,

Brendan: you know, going through our boxes and stuff.

Brendan: Um, we tied a lot of, uh, of changers. I still owe him some craft fair changers,

Brendan: but for a while I was paying rent and craft fair changers.

Brendan: But he was he was tying mallard flanks or mallard changers at the time which

Brendan: is something that i don't even have the patience for but uh yeah i mean jake's

Brendan: roamer um super effective,

Brendan: and uh i never got the hang of using laser dub but uh yeah i mean time with

Brendan: jake was always was always a good time and always learned something and.

Marvin: Do you have a favorite flavor of changer ice cream?

Brendan: Ooh.

Brendan: Favorite to fish would be a craft bird changer just because you can make it

Brendan: do a bunch of different things.

Brendan: I think craft bird is a really cool material, the way it interacts with water.

Brendan: But I would say, like, if we're speaking strictly changers, it would be like

Brendan: a brushhead feather changer with a moth tail.

Brendan: Maybe a 316 tungsten bead.

Marvin: Yeah, it's because you like the kick, right? Yeah.

Brendan: Yeah. Yeah. The tail absorbs water. I don't think I have any feather changers

Brendan: in my box that aren't a mock tail, honestly.

Marvin: Yeah. Interesting. And so, you know, kind of as you've evolved,

Marvin: I mean, are there any, you know, kind of patterns or techniques that you're known for?

Brendan: Um i've never i've never designed a fly but i would say if someone knows me

Brendan: through fly tying they know that i'm tying blaine's flies joltus flies and um russ and and lapkus,

Brendan: they're the the big four that uh you know i'm tying at shows or if you're at

Brendan: a show you'll see my box it's it's going to be mostly flies from those guys or variations of yeah.

Marvin: And you've told me that you you know you're kind of tying flies to solve problems

Marvin: which is what guides do right you know what are kind of the core you know fishing

Marvin: problems or presentations that you're looking for for smallmouth that you like to tie around.

Brendan: Well a problem that i run into often is uh,

Brendan: you know if someone can't do the rod tip movements that i mentioned earlier

Brendan: to to move their fly especially in a spot where i want to get more than one

Brendan: cast like i'm I'm slowing the boat down slower than the current.

Brendan: Tying a fly that's basically the leggy boy has solved those problems for me,

Brendan: but tying a fly that's able to stay down while they're stripping and still kick under tension.

Brendan: So someone might not be able to do the right Kelly Gallop jerk strip,

Brendan: but if they can get that fly to at least kick, kick, and then maybe stop with

Brendan: like more of a trout emend,

Brendan: then that's still going to be effective.

Marvin: Got it. You know, any other, you know, situations, either kind of specific triggers

Marvin: you like for smallmouth or other kind of, we'll just say, angler assist issues?

Brendan: Um, the angler assist aspect of like just casting these flies, um,

Brendan: you know, a lot of people that come out and it's their first time casting streamers,

Brendan: like they're not going to be able to cast a game changer off the bat.

Brendan: So single hook flies, uh, like the roamer, um, or articulated flies like that.

Brendan: Alex Lafkus brush head receiver, like those flies are crucial because they're

Brendan: easy to get them to kick, especially the Lafkus fly.

Brendan: Um, just because that little brush

Brendan: head pushes water like a Buford and the backend is kind of whips around.

Brendan: Um, so it's very simple to get that fly to kick, but it's also easy to have

Brendan: someone deliver it where they want to deliver it.

Brendan: Cause if they can't get the fly there, then, you know, why do you even have a game changer on?

Marvin: Yeah. Then you have to listen to Steely Dan, right?

Brendan: Yeah, or maybe the Smiths, because we'll be a little sad.

Marvin: Yeah, you could kill yourself if you listen to that stuff too long.

Marvin: So what is it that you see with the changers that people have problems with?

Marvin: Do they generally false cast too much and they dry the fly out and it becomes

Marvin: air resistant? Or is it just the entire thing of not having,

Marvin: you know, not having really practiced fishing, you know, casting big streamers before?

Brendan: Um, yeah, I think it's a combination of a lot of things. The number one thing

Brendan: is probably that I tie a pretty dense fly for the most part.

Brendan: So like, you know, if you get, if you buy a fly from the chocolate factory,

Brendan: will it be easier to cast than a fly that's in my box? Probably.

Brendan: Um, and I'm tying them dense just to get the most action out of them that you

Brendan: possibly can just to divert that water.

Marvin: So, I mean, if you're tying them dense, that seems, that would tell me, right.

Marvin: That probably most anglers you know they're going to hold a lot more water right

Marvin: and so yeah they basically have it's almost like a you know like a rock spinning

Marvin: around at the tip of the rod if they're not really smooth it's really kind of

Marvin: hard to kind of get a good forecast and a back cast right yeah.

Brendan: I mean most people especially you know coming from or living in an area where,

Brendan: trout is a predominant fly game species um you know most people are at most

Brendan: used to casting an an indicator.

Brendan: So teaching someone timing is very important, uh, especially,

Brendan: you know, their first time casting streamers, like, you know,

Brendan: turn your head, watch it, watch your back cast. Like that's crucial.

Brendan: Um, but yeah, I think, you know, some people don't have, uh,

Brendan: you know, maybe they're not locking their, their arm up in the right way to,

Brendan: uh, to stop that rod when that fly pulls back on them or something.

Brendan: But, uh, there, there are a lot of little issues we can work out on the boat,

Brendan: but for some people, uh, you know, very, a very small percentage of people like

Brendan: just don't, they don't get the change or they get the lab display.

Marvin: Yeah. It's interesting. Cause it sounds like, you know, when you solve those

Marvin: problems, it'll also make your musky casting life a whole lot easier. Right.

Brendan: Yeah it definitely like correlates to musky fishing for sure and it gets amplified

Brendan: once the flies get bigger obviously yeah.

Marvin: And then i'd imagine too is it kind of warms up and maybe you're trying to cover

Marvin: more water you know it's just it's like musky fishing like there is a huge difference

Marvin: between casting 75 and 60 feet right.

Brendan: Yeah and there's also a

Brendan: huge difference like most of the time when

Brendan: you're setting up on a spot uh you know if

Brendan: you cast right on what you're trying to fish like where you think

Brendan: the fish is none of the flies that we're fishing are

Brendan: really going to catch that fish so you're kind

Brendan: of like casting maybe like slightly beyond with the

Brendan: intention of coming across that spot or if you're fishing wood maybe you can

Brendan: if it's submerged wood you can cast past the wood do like a nice like uh reach

Brendan: cast or just kind of like raise your rod tip and reposition your line upstream

Brendan: um to get that fly where you want it but the line is already

Brendan: kind of sinking under that under that slack yeah.

Marvin: Yeah it's interesting and you know the other the other thing i always like to

Marvin: ask tires is i bet you've got some crazy goofball tool uh that no one people

Marvin: that tie with you know about right or people that watch on your instagram live

Marvin: know about but you probably can't live without it and you know when you tell

Marvin: people about they're gonna be like damn i should tie with that too.

Brendan: Um back when

Brendan: i was uh just started the gco i think i stole a comb from my my parents closet

Brendan: and that comb has traveled to every fly show with me and that's uh that's for

Brendan: like brushing out like craft or um crustaceans brush heads and things like that before i trim them got.

Marvin: It and uh is it like a like a comb made out of bone or something so it doesn't

Marvin: hold static electricity or is it just a good old-fashioned comb that you stole?

Brendan: Good old fashioned comb. It's

Brendan: about maybe six inches long. One side's a little finer than the other.

Marvin: Got it. And I know that, uh, I, I occasionally see your patterns for sale at Schultz Outfitters.

Marvin: I mean, are there other places where people can see your patterns and, uh, and, and buy them?

Brendan: Uh as of right now you can only see him on the boat i

Brendan: uh i got i'm working for one of my clients in the off season so the uh the tying

Brendan: orders are closed um you know unless you really want one but uh yeah it was

Brendan: very i was very fortunate to be able to you know have flies in shelter shop

Brendan: that was that was really cool um but uh yeah the selling flies is it's it's

Brendan: also getting tougher just due to the shortage of materials and the realm that

Brendan: i'm in like hen saddles were nearly impossible to find yeah.

Marvin: Got it and also too i mean it's just it's it is insanely time consuming and

Marvin: there's all kinds of stuff that people that that buy flies don't understand

Marvin: like federal excise tax and all that kind of nutty stuff that you know makes it.

Brendan: A little.

Marvin: Bit less fun than it should be. So I guess maybe, you know, kind of watch maybe,

Marvin: you know, Schultz Outfitters and see if like maybe for Bob in the Hood,

Marvin: maybe you tie some flies or something like that.

Marvin: But otherwise, they need to come fish with you and make you listen to Steely

Marvin: Dan and the Smiths until you cough up a fly.

Brendan: Yeah, I mean, you know, if you catch a 20-inch fish and you ask for a fly,

Brendan: you're probably going to get that fly.

Marvin: Got it.

Brendan: Kind of like as a little trophy.

Marvin: Yeah, there you go. 100%. I've got a few of those. As a matter of fact,

Marvin: I've got a circus peanut and a hat from Montana.

Marvin: Oh, nice. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

Marvin: And so before I let you go, Brendan, is there anything else you'd like to share with our listeners?

Brendan: Um, yeah, you can find more at, uh, at Brendan Roosh on Instagram.

Brendan: Um, website's not up and running yet, but it will be rooshangling.com.

Brendan: But, uh, yeah, I'm very happy to be on here.

Brendan: Um, I feel very fortunate to be in the position I'm in right now,

Brendan: uh, working for myself, lots of good friends across the industry.

Brendan: And, um, yeah, I'm just looking forward to see what the future holds.

Marvin: Yeah, for sure. And you also have been known to do some Instagram live tying

Marvin: stuff too on your Instagram channel, right?

Brendan: Uh yeah yeah so i recently have been doing lives tying with the log jam fishing

Brendan: company good friends over at log jam and uh that's been like tuesday nights

Brendan: at 8 30 uh but they'll they'll post whenever we do a live that that might change at some point got.

Marvin: It and so you know your small mouth guiding up in central pa kind of what does

Marvin: your season look like and you know when do you head to Virginia to do the muskie fishing?

Brendan: So my season in Pennsylvania usually starts mid-March.

Brendan: I was down in Virginia from mid-March this year, so I got back the last week of March.

Brendan: And the whole springtime flows, pre-spawn, post-spawn fishing,

Brendan: will go from then until about sometimes the first week of June if we have good water.

Brendan: And around that time, we'll switch over to more summer tactics.

Brendan: Go to go to some bigger water fishing ledges

Brendan: things like that on uh you know the juniata or the susquehanna and from then

Brendan: you know we move into top water season and you know fishing crayfish weighted

Brendan: flies uh that runs until the fall and um,

Brendan: It seems really far away right now, but we'll be there in a heartbeat.

Marvin: Yeah, and then I guess probably a couple weeks before Thanksgiving,

Marvin: you'll head to Virginia and guide that season out until you start all over again, right?

Brendan: Yeah. I'm not sure if I'll be working full-time down there for those guys,

Brendan: but I'll be down there on an as-needed basis, especially for group trips.

Marvin: Yeah.

Brendan: But yeah, I also do work with Virginia Trophy guides, That's the Josh Lafferty

Brendan: and Captain Austin Conrad, along with Brady Braden Miller.

Marvin: Yeah, Skippy Bridges.

Brendan: Yeah.

Marvin: Well, that's awesome. And so, you know, you want to let folks know,

Marvin: you know, your preferred way.

Marvin: You know, obviously we've got the handle for your website and Instagram,

Marvin: but, you know, what's the best way for folks to get in touch with you if they

Marvin: want to get on your guide calendar this year?

Brendan: Um my phone number you know give me a call or shoot me a text would be number

Brendan: one for sure um and then email it's going to be bruce angling at gmail.com r-u-c-h is bruce.

Marvin: Gotcha and i will drop your cell phone number in the show notes so everybody

Marvin: can get to that uh right from the episode great thank you awesome well listen

Marvin: uh brendan it's been fun having you on and uh look Look forward to seeing you

Marvin: on the water at a show soon.

Brendan: Yeah, you'll have to come up.

Marvin: Absolutely.

Brendan: Thanks for having me.

Marvin: You bet. Take care.

Brendan: Yeah, take care.

Intro: Well, folks, I hope you enjoyed that as much as we enjoyed bringing it to you.

Intro: Don't forget to check out the link in the show notes for The Chocolate Factory

Intro: in Charlotte on May 4th. Tight lines, everybody.