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I've got a rare treat for you, dear listener, and a rare treat for myself as

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well. I'm here with Adam McAtee. Hi, Adam.

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Hey, Ralph. Good to hang out with you. Yeah, it's so great to see you.

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We haven't connected for a while, and I'm really looking forward to our conversation.

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But admiring your work from afar, and I reached out to you to have this conversation

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because of an excellent post that you put up, um, recently on socials.

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And, uh, if you could just sort of walk, walk us through the post,

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but I don't want to like get too bogged down in the, the, the detail of the

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post itself through this episode, but I want to talk about the larger principle

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that you brought up in that and, and unpack that a bit.

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So yeah, walk us through the, the, the scenario. Yeah.

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Sure. So I'll give like the elevator pitch on that. And I'll get more detailed if it's too vague.

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So there is a large Pilates organization that was misutilizing the term strength.

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And I felt that it was important to be clear on what the definition of strength

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is, and also what it is not.

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So then we can provide the best client care possible.

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And for me I chose to

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go step by step and discuss exactly

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what was wrong with the post in which

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the company attempted to redefine what

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strength is and I feel passionate that

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we don't get to redefine the laws of physics but rather we can understand the

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laws of physics and human physiology understand what Pilates does really well

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and we can either we have like two choices which is either to allow Pilates

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to be exactly what it's good at and love that,

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or we can adapt Pilates to the laws of physics and physiology to generate a

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response that is accurate and also ethical to our clients.

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And not to go down too much of a rabbit hole, I'm just passionate about this

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because I work with older adults. That is who I work with.

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I've been bedside with older adults that needed strength to get out of bed.

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And for me, I just feel really passionate about education

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and um you know providing that education to people who pay for the education

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and then also help people who actually need help like this is more than just

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you know our summer bodies this is about to me it's about independence and the

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lifespan and it starts with education yeah that's my.

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My passionate elevators. Yeah, the two things that really caught my interest in that,

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first what you said about, and this is pretty much why I reached out to you

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about this post, is first what you said about, yeah, we don't get to redefine words,

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you know, which are very precisely defined in physiology and physics,

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you know just because we never

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studied physiology or physics like

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these words already have definitions so yeah

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we don't get to redefine words and the second thing is that

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i think in pilates this is something i'm very interested in as well is we have

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this kind of i guess magical thinking that is highly prevalent where we we think

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and that there's this one specific belief I want to zero in on in our conversation today,

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which is that essentially the core idea, I think, is that strength comes from control in Pilates.

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And, you know, that gets expressed different ways by, you know,

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you need to organize yourself under load or, you know,

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activation, correct activation, you know, but basically the idea is that control

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should precede strength, or in fact, control begets strength.

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And, uh,

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that you know i think even in that post there was

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one of the things that they said correct me if i'm wrong

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on this but was that basically if your clients

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are kind of like gripping and bracing and you

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know trying to like push through that's not true

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strength i'm like yeah no i'm pretty sure that's exactly what what you need

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to do to get stronger um but yeah so those two ideas firstly that we don't get

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to just change the definitions of technical words in our field of expertise.

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And second, that this magical idea that strength comes from control.

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Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I just want to shout out to any Pilates instructor

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out there. I know we're doing the best that we know how to do.

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And all of this is intended to be additive to all of the incredible work you do.

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And there was a point in my career where I didn't actually know the definition

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of strength, but I was teaching Pilates, and that was an education problem.

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So then I solved that through education. I'm sorry to butt in.

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I think that's such a really important point.

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Look, I just want to echo that. if you're listening to this and you

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don't know what the actual textbook definition of strength is like no

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shade on you that was your educator's fault whoever

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trained you up yeah yeah and

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and it's just you know what can we do about that now is um you know learn more

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now and show up every day and get a little bit better and so i hope this this

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podcast contributes to that uh for you dear listener um so strength is the my

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understanding of strength is it's the ability to generate force through a specific task.

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And then if you're doing maximal strength, that would be the maximum force that

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you can produce one time during a specific task.

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And so within the definition, the word control is actually not in the definition.

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And therefore, it's actually not a requirement.

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And if anyone has ever biased, let's say maximal strength, or you or maybe you

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just went to failure in an exercise, like let's say, a push up, right?

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And you're let's say you're your first push up It might feel a little weird

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because you're doing your first one.

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And then your third one, you're kind of like you're going and it looks pretty good.

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Aesthetically. When you go down for your last one and you try to get up,

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holy shit, like that does not look like the third one, right?

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Your alignment is going to be a little bit different.

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Your facial expressions are definitely gonna be different. And you might even

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have some sound effects along the way.

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And so within that fatigue generates what I call alternative alignment,

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meaning that that your alignment changes.

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And that's actually an indicator of the body seeking to, to,

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to complete another repetition in any way that it can.

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But the gas is almost like, or the gas tank is almost on empty.

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So I would say that precision is actually like, we can either,

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we can either choose to bias precision or bias strength.

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And I'm not going to say either one is right or wrong, But I think we need to

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be clear on what we're biasing.

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And if we're biasing strength, precision is going to kind of go out the window

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towards the end of the set.

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And I'm not saying it's right or it's wrong, but I think where we misstep in

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Pilates education is that we try to redefine strength to then fit that idea

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of prioritizing control or precision.

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And within that, they're not the same thing. Like apples are apples and oranges are oranges.

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And so control is not a requirement for strength. And that doesn't mean just be reckless, right?

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And just, you know, who cares about any alignment under any condition?

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You know, there is a way that you want to progressively load and progressively

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expose the body, you know, to be doing these strength tests,

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like there's a smart way to go about it. But if we're biasing strength,

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you need to go to failure or very close to it.

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And that's just, it's not, it's just not a pretty process. And I think that's, that's okay.

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To the, to the post that you were mentioning, the, the direct slide that they're

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mentioning, just word for word, so I'm paraphrasing to fit my bias,

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is that it says, if movement quality drops, as load increases,

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strength is, isn't being built.

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It's being replaced with gripping, with bracing and with pushing through.

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So what this post does is it ignores what strength is and how strength is being built.

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Strength is actually being built through load and progressive loading over time.

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And that has nothing to do with movement quality. It's a quantitative measure.

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So it's objective. It's not how something looks or based on opinion.

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And then they replace it with words that in Pilates are often seen as negative.

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So it's well written to be perceived as intelligent, but it's extremely misleading

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if you know what words mean.

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But they try to demystify that by redefining what strength is.

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There's nothing wrong with gripping, bracing, or pushing through.

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Because when you're lifting heavy things, you're going to have to push through.

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It's like literally the task. I mean, look at anyone winning the Olympic white

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lifting gold medal and they'll be gripping, bracing, and pushing through.

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You know yeah and it doesn't even have to be that level like I

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help people get out of chairs because they can't like they're pushing through

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and that's their that's their Olympic gold medal it can be at so many different

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levels it can be competition or just you know it could be the complete other

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end of the spectrum but yeah they're gonna brace grip and they're gonna push

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through and it's gonna be hard yeah.

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You know, what you touched on there about, you know,

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building strength is inherently not pretty because we have to challenge our

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body to the point where we can't quite complete the task successfully or, you know,

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in perfect form in order to generate a sufficient stimulus for strengthening.

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And if you can maintain perfect form at all times, you're probably so far away

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from hitting that level of intensity that you're not going to stimulate a meaningful

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strengthening response.

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And at the other end of the continuum of, we have a low load skill practice

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where we're building control.

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And if you want to build fine control, well, you have to generally reduce the

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load so that you can execute the movement perfectly.

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Like if you're learning to play the flute with, you know, five pound weights

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tied to each finger, that would be much harder than doing it without.

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And so when we're practicing, you know, control or skill or however you want

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to term it, doing it with low load and, you know, aiming for perfect form is the way to achieve that.

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Whereas when we're developing strength, we have to do it with high load and

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we actually have to push to the point where form deteriorates in order to know that we're succeeding.

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So really the appearance that you see, you know, the client,

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you know, whether the quality of their form and the quality of their movement

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is going to be essentially mutually exclusive between developing those two attributes.

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And like you say, you know, you said neither one's right or wrong.

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I would go a little bit stronger and I would say both are important.

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And I think in Pilates, we weigh over index on control, you know,

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usually at the expense of, of strength.

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Yeah, yeah. I mean, that suits my bias, you know, as as well.

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I got absolutely I'd rather I'd rather just be strong.

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And I think this leads to, you know, like, we can segue in plenty of ways.

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And I think a lot of this turns into like a safety concern for clients is if

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it doesn't look safe, then it's not safe.

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And for me, like a big thing about safety is, is it safety in the presence of

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me or is it safety in the other 23 hours of your day?

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And so what are we training for? And for me, I feel like, one,

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like having more muscle mass in reserve is going to allow you to be safer throughout the day.

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And then also the one consideration when we talk about control and precision

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and movement quality and things of that nature is like how many,

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like for me, I've really just shifted towards promoting more movement options

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and having people perform exercises and challenge their strength in a variety

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of different alignments.

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And that that could also be perceived as safety as well.

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And it's not that we're creating compensatory patterns that are negative because

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this idea of compensatory patterns with increased load, because alignment changes,

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is perceived as negative.

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But what if it is the body's brilliant adaptation and its own brilliance to

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respond to different demands and that we're just training in more areas to therefore

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become more resilient under various different contexts rather than just the

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sole context of moving slow and controlled.

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And also like a consideration is that the slow and controlled isn't necessarily

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better, especially through the aging process.

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Speed is actually a massive barrier for people.

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They tend to, we move slower. So we actually like slowing control is like the

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opposite of what I would advocate to treat older adults, which is really where

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my head is nowadays. And I just feel passionate about it.

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Is to actually, we want to build strength. We want to build power.

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So we actually, yeah, you want, yeah, power.

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And then it's like, well, what is power, right? If we don't know what strength

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is, we probably don't know what power is. And that's just essentially move fast.

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It's explosive strength. Especially to the consensus.

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Explosive strength right so it's just like push

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the carriage out as fast as you can just just a quick sidebar

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here why does an older adult need explosive strength well just say

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you trip you need to be able to catch yourself on your leg and that's an

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explosive deceleration for example that's just one absolutely and that's multiple

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systems right and so and and that has to do with fall prevention and you know

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the stats on fall on on falls if you fall and you break a hip you have a 600

00:14:18.659 --> 00:14:24.039

you have a six times um or six x uh height and probability of mortality in the

00:14:24.039 --> 00:14:25.459

next year it's a massive problem.

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Anyways, I won't go down that rabbit hole, but the point is that having a fundamental

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understanding of exercise science is essential for Pilates instructors,

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and it's additive to the Pilates that we know.

00:14:39.919 --> 00:14:44.059

That has to do with strength, but in this case also power, but also like laws

00:14:44.059 --> 00:14:48.819

of specificity in that slow and controlled exercises are not going to transfer

00:14:48.819 --> 00:14:54.039

to anything outside of being slow and controlled, and there's benefits to being slow and controlled.

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But we can't see we we we cannot assume that it's going to transfer it to other things,

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whereas if we're working with someone we want to get them stronger we're going

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to have to buy a strength so we have to know what strength is and that only

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works if we understand the accurate definition of that two two reframes that

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really sort of turn my brain inside out as i was going through my exercise science

00:15:17.319 --> 00:15:21.139

degree what is uh number one on the safety thing.

00:15:21.899 --> 00:15:24.559

That um you know like i used to

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believe that you know when somebody's you know form didn't

00:15:27.479 --> 00:15:31.199

look quote you know correct that that indicated that

00:15:31.199 --> 00:15:35.579

they were unsafe in the movement but the reframe that really changed my thinking

00:15:35.579 --> 00:15:43.319

was that well life is inherently involves you know awkward positions and you

00:15:43.319 --> 00:15:46.999

know different ranges of motion and unexpected forces you know kids bumping

00:15:46.999 --> 00:15:50.659

into your dog's bumping into you, stepping off a curb without realizing it.

00:15:50.779 --> 00:15:54.119

You know, there's all kinds of unexpected situations. You can't walk around

00:15:54.119 --> 00:15:58.139

in every joint perfectly aligned at all times. And actually what,

00:15:58.636 --> 00:16:03.796

what our job as exercise professionals is to help people build tolerance to

00:16:03.796 --> 00:16:11.076

those unexpected situations so that they have the load capacity to, you know,

00:16:11.216 --> 00:16:15.736

to, to, to resist the forces in, you know, when, in those situations.

00:16:15.736 --> 00:16:18.976

So we need to build tolerance in those awkward positions.

00:16:19.096 --> 00:16:22.196

And the way you build tolerance in awkward positions is you have to.

00:16:22.969 --> 00:16:27.589

Be in awkward positions under load, you know, and of course you have to start,

00:16:27.769 --> 00:16:32.649

you know, relatively low and progressively, you know, increase over time.

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So that was the one big reframe was that in order to get, become safer,

00:16:38.289 --> 00:16:44.929

we actually have to expose ourselves to the very stressor that we want to be able to tolerate.

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And so avoiding that stressor actually makes us

00:16:48.149 --> 00:16:51.549

weaker in those positions and weaker overall so

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and that's the first one and the second

00:16:54.449 --> 00:16:57.529

one is the reframe that really kind of melted my

00:16:57.529 --> 00:17:01.569

brain was around what you'd said about form deteriorating

00:17:01.569 --> 00:17:05.249

you know in quotes as you uh add

00:17:05.249 --> 00:17:10.029

load and get close to failure and the reframe that really blew me away and this

00:17:10.029 --> 00:17:16.129

actually came from research i read on power lifting where um they found that

00:17:16.129 --> 00:17:22.389

these researchers basically analyzed the technique of powerlifters doing a deadlift.

00:17:24.669 --> 00:17:27.329

And these were elite powerlifters like you

00:17:27.329 --> 00:17:31.389

know nationally and internationally competitive lifters and

00:17:31.389 --> 00:17:34.969

they looked at their technique under different levels of load and they found

00:17:34.969 --> 00:17:39.269

that under low load they had many different sort of versions of you know when

00:17:39.269 --> 00:17:43.229

their knees extended versus when the hips extended versus you know what alignment

00:17:43.229 --> 00:17:50.929

their spine was in etc but that as the load increased to roughly 90% or more of their maximum lift,

00:17:51.129 --> 00:17:55.869

their technique all converged onto a very, very narrow range.

00:17:56.049 --> 00:18:02.249

And so there's other research on this as well, but I won't go down those roads.

00:18:02.389 --> 00:18:08.529

But basically, the reframe for me was that we have this idea of...

00:18:09.187 --> 00:18:13.147

Of what ideal form looks like. The body should be all right angles,

00:18:13.267 --> 00:18:17.507

all of the joints should be straight, it should look effortless, blah, blah, blah.

00:18:18.007 --> 00:18:21.227

The head should be above the shoulders, whatever it might be.

00:18:21.387 --> 00:18:26.867

And so when we're lifting anything, whether it's our hand in a teacup or a light

00:18:26.867 --> 00:18:31.667

weight or whatever it might be, we try and assume this kind of pretty looking form.

00:18:31.707 --> 00:18:38.227

But as we get closer and closer to our maximum effort, our motor cortex takes

00:18:38.227 --> 00:18:41.447

over and says, no, you idiot, that's actually not a biomechanically efficient

00:18:41.447 --> 00:18:44.007

way to lift this maximal thing.

00:18:44.067 --> 00:18:46.987

If you want to lift up this really, really heavy thing, you're going to have

00:18:46.987 --> 00:18:50.227

to organize yourself in the most biomechanically efficient way possible.

00:18:50.587 --> 00:18:54.927

And we have research showing that, for example, in the spine,

00:18:55.047 --> 00:18:58.947

the most biomechanically efficient, the actual strongest position of the spine

00:18:58.947 --> 00:19:03.447

is like 80% or 90% of full flexion, right?

00:19:03.547 --> 00:19:06.847

Because then the tension on the passive structures, the ligaments at the back,

00:19:06.967 --> 00:19:10.087

the lumbodossal fascia, et cetera, is maximized.

00:19:10.147 --> 00:19:13.347

And those structures are actually much stronger than the muscles themselves.

00:19:13.627 --> 00:19:19.527

So that basically, as we're in that quote, good alignment, that's just our kind

00:19:19.527 --> 00:19:26.107

of made up fantasy of what we think should be efficient and safe.

00:19:26.167 --> 00:19:29.747

But when we actually try to do something really maximal.

00:19:30.347 --> 00:19:33.587

Our non-conscious motor parts of our brain just take over and go,

00:19:33.587 --> 00:19:37.567

actually like you step aside i've got it from here i'm going to do this actually

00:19:37.567 --> 00:19:42.047

the way that the body is most efficient and it starts to look in our eyes ugly

00:19:42.047 --> 00:19:47.127

and unsafe but that that's actually we've got it wrong we've got it wrong the

00:19:47.127 --> 00:19:49.867

the pretty one is actually less efficient.

00:19:52.107 --> 00:19:56.967

It is and and a lot of the i think it also goes down to understanding how low

00:19:56.967 --> 00:20:04.107

load um pilates is you know yes we do use springs on the reformer let's just say for footwork,

00:20:04.587 --> 00:20:08.027

But in order to even just get to body weight, which is highly variable from

00:20:08.027 --> 00:20:11.327

person to person, you're going to have to put on like three or four springs

00:20:11.327 --> 00:20:13.027

just to meet someone's body weight.

00:20:13.227 --> 00:20:17.427

And then you have maybe one spring left to add on a little bit more than body

00:20:17.427 --> 00:20:18.587

weight, which would be like holding

00:20:18.587 --> 00:20:21.907

a, I don't know, a 20 pound weight or something and doing a sit to stand.

00:20:22.047 --> 00:20:27.227

Like it's really, it's really low load for the otherwise healthy individual.

00:20:27.227 --> 00:20:33.027

And I think that can be really empowering for us in that we're not even close

00:20:33.027 --> 00:20:36.107

to the realm of potential injury.

00:20:36.567 --> 00:20:40.727

And exercise, organized exercise, even CrossFit, you know, there's good literature

00:20:40.727 --> 00:20:43.707

on like how the rate of injuries is actually really low.

00:20:43.867 --> 00:20:46.487

Like you're probably more likely to get injured riding a bike.

00:20:46.987 --> 00:20:50.587

You know, which is not like a dangerous activity for otherwise healthy individuals

00:20:50.587 --> 00:20:54.767

or, you know, slipping at the grocery store than you are to exercise.

00:20:54.767 --> 00:20:57.487

Science and that i'm sorry to butt in just for a sec but

00:20:57.487 --> 00:21:00.627

that also goes for you know power lifting olympic weightlifting

00:21:00.627 --> 00:21:04.307

going to the gym break dancing yoga you

00:21:04.307 --> 00:21:06.967

know like all of these things are if you look at the

00:21:06.967 --> 00:21:10.327

number of injuries per thousand hours of participation they're like right

00:21:10.327 --> 00:21:13.907

right down there with ballroom dancing you know yeah

00:21:13.907 --> 00:21:16.867

and a lot of those go down to to skill and like

00:21:16.867 --> 00:21:20.307

i'm not defending like the person who bought a groupon who

00:21:20.307 --> 00:21:23.007

went to like the 25 reformer studio that has

00:21:23.007 --> 00:21:25.947

a disco ball and a smoke machine and then they're just like doing crazy shit

00:21:25.947 --> 00:21:30.447

like they they might fall right just due to like the crazy exercise kind of

00:21:30.447 --> 00:21:34.007

thing and then there's absolutely a skill like start you know go just like a

00:21:34.007 --> 00:21:37.767

crossfit class or powerlifting like start you know at the beginner level and

00:21:37.767 --> 00:21:41.647

then like work your way up and there's ways to expose yourself to that from

00:21:41.647 --> 00:21:44.567

a physiological perspective but also a skill perspective.

00:21:45.115 --> 00:21:50.075

But when we start to see a knee wobble, when we are, you know,

00:21:50.175 --> 00:21:52.995

loading the quadriceps for, let's just say, knee extension,

00:21:53.535 --> 00:21:59.555

that's a sign that, like, we're just starting to get too close to,

00:21:59.655 --> 00:22:01.715

like, a strength response or a hypertrophy.

00:22:01.915 --> 00:22:05.075

And I think the problem is really well-meaning, because we're educated to do

00:22:05.075 --> 00:22:08.475

this, is to prioritize the wobble more than the fatigue.

00:22:08.475 --> 00:22:13.755

And so we end up stopping people, you know, 20 yards short of even just starting

00:22:13.755 --> 00:22:17.395

to get the hypertrophy and the strength gains, which kind of leads me to some

00:22:17.395 --> 00:22:20.595

of what I just posted about, about like hypertrophy literature,

00:22:20.995 --> 00:22:25.415

you know, which we can go, we can go into, I think is, is also useful that we,

00:22:25.515 --> 00:22:28.215

you know, we just get misled if we don't, if we don't really understand these

00:22:28.215 --> 00:22:32.835

concepts where it's like, oh, but light loads get just as much hypertrophy as heavy loads.

00:22:32.835 --> 00:22:39.735

Um but you have to go way past the the wobble um you know of the knee or the

00:22:39.735 --> 00:22:44.095

or the the movement of of the spine and things of that nature pilates is just

00:22:44.095 --> 00:22:47.135

inherently safe outside of like traumatic.

00:22:47.895 --> 00:22:52.115

Exercises of our traumatic experiences of falling in things of that nature i

00:22:52.115 --> 00:22:58.775

i can't tell you one client that has had a real injury from misalignment in

00:22:58.775 --> 00:23:03.915

an exercise so if you want to so if you want to build strength, you have to, uh,

00:23:04.095 --> 00:23:07.495

subject the body and it's not just the muscles, the tendons,

00:23:07.655 --> 00:23:09.235

ligaments, joints, et cetera.

00:23:09.555 --> 00:23:16.815

Um, you have to subject the body to high levels of mechanical stress and that is a stimulus.

00:23:16.955 --> 00:23:19.395

And then of course you have to have proper nutrition and rest and all of that

00:23:19.395 --> 00:23:23.735

stuff. But yeah, basically you need a, a strengthening stimulus is a high level

00:23:23.735 --> 00:23:31.615

of mechanical, uh, tension, you know, on the, on the muscle fibers for say, for example. and.

00:23:32.557 --> 00:23:38.777

In a Pilates class, you know, I think we talk about strength,

00:23:39.117 --> 00:23:42.757

I see a lot of people talking about strength, but not wanting to,

00:23:42.797 --> 00:23:46.157

you know, bulk up, not wanting to, you know, I think hypertrophy,

00:23:46.577 --> 00:23:52.897

you know, muscle growth is a little bit of a conflicted term in the Pilates

00:23:52.897 --> 00:23:57.257

world because, you know, some people want it in some parts of the body and not

00:23:57.257 --> 00:23:59.637

in other parts of the body and some people don't want it at all.

00:23:59.637 --> 00:24:08.537

Um but really it's i mean there are other components to strength other than muscle size but,

00:24:11.297 --> 00:24:16.997

essentially a bigger more muscular body part is going to be a stronger body

00:24:16.997 --> 00:24:23.417

part and it's very hard to get a lot stronger without your muscles getting bigger

00:24:23.417 --> 00:24:26.837

because that those are the primary units of force production.

00:24:27.897 --> 00:24:32.957

And so if you have small force producers, you're not going to produce a lot of force.

00:24:35.297 --> 00:24:41.677

And yet we have this kind of paradoxical love-hate relationship,

00:24:41.677 --> 00:24:45.737

I would say, with muscle growth in Pilates, where we kind of want it and we

00:24:45.737 --> 00:24:48.297

kind of don't want it at the same time.

00:24:48.757 --> 00:24:51.257

So, you know, I think how do you –,

00:24:52.182 --> 00:24:55.442

How do you reconcile that with the people that you work with?

00:24:55.522 --> 00:24:58.602

Because, you know, you're an educator as well, not just with your clients,

00:24:58.742 --> 00:25:00.862

but with your, you know, you teach Pilates instructors.

00:25:01.522 --> 00:25:06.882

How do you teach people or how do you have that conversation with people on

00:25:06.882 --> 00:25:08.162

social media, for example,

00:25:08.522 --> 00:25:15.342

that, you know, we actually do want, like, if you want to help someone get stronger,

00:25:15.482 --> 00:25:18.182

like, it's going to be unavoidable that you're going to need to help them grow their muscles.

00:25:19.502 --> 00:25:23.982

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I can come at this from from multiple angles.

00:25:24.462 --> 00:25:27.602

One, if I were a client facing, which I think is really helpful for the client,

00:25:27.702 --> 00:25:30.722

because that's what are for the Pilates instructor, right? Like, like, what would I do?

00:25:30.882 --> 00:25:36.122

And then also just different different ways of defining this is sometimes I

00:25:36.122 --> 00:25:38.462

just use my own personality when I work with people and say,

00:25:38.562 --> 00:25:41.602

like, I've been trying to get bulky for years, and it's really hard.

00:25:41.882 --> 00:25:47.002

So I mean, if you accidentally get bulky, let me know, and then we'll change what we're doing.

00:25:47.002 --> 00:25:49.822

And then like that's one way that I that I go with

00:25:49.822 --> 00:25:52.722

them and I just just try to humor them and like okay you know they most

00:25:52.722 --> 00:25:57.122

of the time you know they they try not they don't worry other times it's helpful

00:25:57.122 --> 00:26:00.602

to go a little bit deeper into the education and to say that someone getting

00:26:00.602 --> 00:26:04.102

bulky or increasing muscle mass does not happen overnight you will not wake

00:26:04.102 --> 00:26:07.782

up you know tomorrow and look like like Popeye's sailor man it happens over

00:26:07.782 --> 00:26:11.642

time and it's also a lot harder to gain muscle than it is to lose muscle.

00:26:11.842 --> 00:26:18.202

So if for some reason we, we build too much muscle, then it's really easy to lose it.

00:26:18.342 --> 00:26:20.782

Like, we'll just do something different and then we'll lose,

00:26:20.922 --> 00:26:23.622

then we'll lose the muscle. Like, like that's, it's one of those things of like,

00:26:23.762 --> 00:26:26.142

you know, you can go backwards really easily.

00:26:26.462 --> 00:26:30.282

Um, like you can just lay in bed for three days and like, there you go. Like we did it.

00:26:30.602 --> 00:26:33.222

Uh, you know, things of that nature. But then also I think when,

00:26:33.342 --> 00:26:37.382

with Pilates, I think there's a difference between, um, like the academic terminology

00:26:37.382 --> 00:26:41.382

of what is muscle strength And then what people say, I want to be stronger.

00:26:41.702 --> 00:26:45.182

A lot of times when people say I want to be stronger, it's like I want to be

00:26:45.182 --> 00:26:46.442

able to do tasks more easily.

00:26:46.522 --> 00:26:49.922

I want to feel like I have more energy at the end of the day.

00:26:50.102 --> 00:26:51.502

And it's like this, I feel stronger.

00:26:52.183 --> 00:26:56.083

Um, so a lot of times people are actually defining endurance and then they feel

00:26:56.083 --> 00:26:58.103

better with Pilates. So it's like, ha, I got stronger.

00:26:58.783 --> 00:27:01.263

And a lot of times when we're talking about strength, like you and I are talking

00:27:01.263 --> 00:27:04.243

about strength, we're talking about isotonic strength in the sense of strengthening

00:27:04.243 --> 00:27:06.903

prime movers to achieve a task.

00:27:07.203 --> 00:27:10.003

So you're doing a pushup, right? You go down, you go up, you're doing a squat,

00:27:10.043 --> 00:27:11.123

you're going down, you go up.

00:27:11.303 --> 00:27:14.863

And a lot of times Pilates, um, if we're talking about strength,

00:27:15.083 --> 00:27:16.863

it's a lot of it is like isometrics.

00:27:17.063 --> 00:27:21.983

And then if we actually double click on that, it's really like isometric, um, endurance.

00:27:22.183 --> 00:27:27.303

It is maintaining a position, right? Can you go up into teaser and hold it and

00:27:27.303 --> 00:27:28.903

then lower and lift the straps?

00:27:29.103 --> 00:27:32.443

The lowering and lifting the straps is not the hard part. You're on like a one spring.

00:27:32.703 --> 00:27:35.363

The holding the teaser, that's the hard part.

00:27:35.754 --> 00:27:42.614

It's maintaining that. And this is why I say there's so many ways to win.

00:27:42.614 --> 00:27:47.494

It's just becoming more sophisticated and understanding how are we winning at Pilates?

00:27:47.754 --> 00:27:54.534

Do we want to win by having that sense of feeling stronger in the sense of we

00:27:54.534 --> 00:27:58.434

have more energy at the end of the day and I feel like that shoulder pain is

00:27:58.434 --> 00:27:59.834

gone and I can move it? right?

00:27:59.954 --> 00:28:05.174

Like that's not exactly the academic term of strength, but people will say, I feel stronger, right?

00:28:05.234 --> 00:28:07.594

And just being able to understand what exactly, what's that,

00:28:07.774 --> 00:28:10.654

what are the, how are they using that term? Meaning the common, the lay person.

00:28:11.194 --> 00:28:15.634

And then if we're talking about it from like an educational point of view or

00:28:15.634 --> 00:28:17.774

from like colleague to colleague, and we're talking about strength,

00:28:17.994 --> 00:28:19.754

that's like, are we talking about isometric strength?

00:28:20.014 --> 00:28:24.454

Isometric strength could be like just getting up into a position that you have to hold.

00:28:24.934 --> 00:28:27.774

Um, you know, it doesn't tell you about how long you hold it,

00:28:27.994 --> 00:28:31.094

but like, can you get in there? How long you can hold it is going to be like

00:28:31.094 --> 00:28:32.314

your isometric endurance.

00:28:32.814 --> 00:28:37.234

And then, and then talking about isotonics. And if anyone's confused on isometric,

00:28:37.394 --> 00:28:42.674

isotonic, isometric means you're generating tension, but you're not moving in a really simple term.

00:28:43.414 --> 00:28:47.074

Isotonic would be you're generating force, but you're creating movement.

00:28:47.194 --> 00:28:49.014

That's concentric, eccentric contractions.

00:28:50.034 --> 00:28:55.114

So that's where I think that there's a lot of confusion because what like party

00:28:55.114 --> 00:28:57.274

one, we'll talk about like isometric endurance.

00:28:57.754 --> 00:29:02.574

And then party two is talking about like isometric or isotonic strength.

00:29:02.614 --> 00:29:05.194

And we're trying to synonymize terms that are not the same.

00:29:05.514 --> 00:29:10.014

Um, and that's where having a strong academic background is,

00:29:10.314 --> 00:29:13.694

is valuable because then we, we understand if you're talking about a chair,

00:29:13.714 --> 00:29:18.154

I'm talking about a table, like they're not the same thing. And I think,

00:29:19.127 --> 00:29:21.347

yeah, that's, that's my, that's my rabbit hole on that Ralph.

00:29:23.827 --> 00:29:26.847

It's just, it's just like, we just, it goes, it goes down to what you started

00:29:26.847 --> 00:29:29.107

with. Like we need to understand what words mean. Yeah.

00:29:29.347 --> 00:29:32.867

I think we do need, I think we do need. So, I mean, you, you define strength

00:29:32.867 --> 00:29:36.367

pretty clearly right at the start, but just to re recap that it's the ability

00:29:36.367 --> 00:29:42.467

to generate force in a specific movement or position and strength is specific.

00:29:42.527 --> 00:29:47.587

So you can't say that, you know, So there's no sort of like real,

00:29:47.787 --> 00:29:50.347

the definition of strength is task specific.

00:29:50.547 --> 00:29:54.827

So your ability to lift a certain object, you know, in a certain position or

00:29:54.827 --> 00:29:58.767

your ability to move, you know, a certain bit of machinery or whatever it might

00:29:58.767 --> 00:29:59.827

be, or your own body weight.

00:30:00.207 --> 00:30:03.787

And so you can be strong at one thing and less strong at another thing,

00:30:03.827 --> 00:30:07.927

you know, and it depends on how you measure it. So it is very, very specific.

00:30:08.847 --> 00:30:11.767

And you know the you know we go on

00:30:11.767 --> 00:30:15.187

on this podcast a lot about strength and

00:30:15.187 --> 00:30:18.447

you know certainly i am as an

00:30:18.447 --> 00:30:22.547

exercise scientist as you are um uh you

00:30:22.547 --> 00:30:31.447

know very biased towards strength um but i i became that way by just reading

00:30:31.447 --> 00:30:38.827

mountains of literature both on physical function and well-being but but also on longevity.

00:30:39.507 --> 00:30:43.847

And, you know, of the things that we can accomplish in Pilates,

00:30:43.987 --> 00:30:46.667

you know, we can help people with their flexibility, we can help people with

00:30:46.667 --> 00:30:49.807

their movement skill, with their balance, with their coordination,

00:30:49.807 --> 00:30:53.567

you know, lots of different things we can help people with.

00:30:54.167 --> 00:31:01.527

But of all of those things, the one thing that is going to have like the by far,

00:31:01.687 --> 00:31:07.647

like orders of magnitude largest impact on their longevity and health span is

00:31:07.647 --> 00:31:11.667

increasing their strength by a mile.

00:31:13.207 --> 00:31:16.847

Absolutely. And I feel like it's,

00:31:18.137 --> 00:31:22.777

It's common for a Pilates instructor to go into this paradox of like, of, um...

00:31:23.862 --> 00:31:26.562

When you hear this stuff, it can be challenging because it can be conflicting

00:31:26.562 --> 00:31:30.502

with an education that you love and that you respect, like your educators.

00:31:30.802 --> 00:31:34.422

And what I want to say to anyone listening to this is that you don't have to

00:31:34.422 --> 00:31:36.242

change the way you teach Pilates.

00:31:36.422 --> 00:31:40.422

Like you can love Pilates, but I think it's important, like a really great teacher

00:31:40.422 --> 00:31:43.762

understands the limitations of what they're teaching.

00:31:44.222 --> 00:31:47.902

And a lot of this can go into the education that we provide our clients.

00:31:48.162 --> 00:31:51.782

You know, and we can also have the same conversation with bone mineral density,

00:31:52.062 --> 00:31:55.162

right? We want Pilates to be good at everything because we love Pilates,

00:31:55.202 --> 00:31:59.222

but Pilates is not a great cardiovascular stimulant. It's not.

00:31:59.502 --> 00:32:03.442

And it's also like the traditional Pilates has many things, but if you want

00:32:03.442 --> 00:32:07.982

to go from a historical point of view, Joseph Pilates referred to muscle fatigue as poison.

00:32:08.602 --> 00:32:11.722

It's returned to life. I forgot what page, sorry.

00:32:12.302 --> 00:32:15.402

Read it though. So you don't have to change the way you teach,

00:32:15.462 --> 00:32:17.782

but you also can if you choose to.

00:32:18.082 --> 00:32:23.202

If you choose not to, I respect that. But if you know information,

00:32:23.482 --> 00:32:28.782

it's the ethical thing to provide education to clients to say this is helpful for X, Y, Z.

00:32:29.062 --> 00:32:33.702

In addition to Pilates, I also recommend doing some strength training.

00:32:33.982 --> 00:32:37.722

And then you can either refer them to a practitioner in your neighborhood that

00:32:37.722 --> 00:32:41.222

you recommend or a group class if those resources are more available.

00:32:41.222 --> 00:32:47.022

But to say that Pilates is your strength training, uh, to a general individual

00:32:47.022 --> 00:32:50.482

who doesn't, he's not an exercise scientist or moving professional to me.

00:32:50.622 --> 00:32:53.602

That's where, that's where I have a conflict because that goes down to like

00:32:53.602 --> 00:32:56.782

providing misleading information to someone that 10 years,

00:32:56.942 --> 00:33:00.522

20 years down the road can have a significant impact because they thought they

00:33:00.522 --> 00:33:03.382

were doing great things for the bone mineral density and their muscle mass because

00:33:03.382 --> 00:33:06.262

they felt good doing Pilates, but they actually weren't.

00:33:06.382 --> 00:33:10.102

And I'm just, I'm on team do both and just know what they mean.

00:33:10.662 --> 00:33:15.602

I do Pilates and I do strength training for a good reason. And I recommend that

00:33:15.602 --> 00:33:19.922

to as many people as will listen to me. It goes down to do both.

00:33:20.540 --> 00:33:24.040

Um, but maybe you don't want to do both. Like I work with people that hate going

00:33:24.040 --> 00:33:26.160

to the gym and I, they want to do Pilates.

00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:29.100

All right, cool. Let's do Pilates. Your Pilates is going to look a little different

00:33:29.100 --> 00:33:31.020

because you don't want to go to the gym.

00:33:31.400 --> 00:33:36.460

So, um, you know, here's another spring and, and like, that's just,

00:33:36.560 --> 00:33:37.340

that's what we're doing.

00:33:37.480 --> 00:33:40.460

And that's where I talk about making more sophisticated choices.

00:33:40.860 --> 00:33:43.080

And it's not like random, uh,

00:33:43.200 --> 00:33:46.960

changes to Pilates because I saw it on Instagram, right? Which can be fun.

00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:50.180

Right. But, but these are sophisticated choices. Like what's the goal?

00:33:50.340 --> 00:33:51.180

What are the circumstances?

00:33:51.600 --> 00:33:57.280

And then I'm changing, I'm making a clinical decision based on my reasoning for this response.

00:33:57.460 --> 00:34:01.280

And that takes, that takes skills. It takes knowledge. It takes confidence.

00:34:01.300 --> 00:34:03.900

And honestly, a lot of time to develop that.

00:34:04.020 --> 00:34:07.940

And I just applaud, you know, anyone who's willing to go on that journey because

00:34:07.940 --> 00:34:09.360

we're, we're here to help people.

00:34:09.560 --> 00:34:12.640

To sum up what you said and sort of paraphrase it back at you.

00:34:13.960 --> 00:34:18.100

If you want to keep teaching Pilates the way you're teaching it,

00:34:18.240 --> 00:34:22.880

fine, great, but just, don't call it strength training if you're not already

00:34:22.880 --> 00:34:27.120

teaching a progressive loading way of teaching Pilates.

00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:30.780

And I recommend people to go do some strength training as well.

00:34:31.220 --> 00:34:37.360

And if you want to strengthen your clients in Pilates, that's totally possible,

00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:42.360

but you're going to have to be intentional about it and you're going to have to make,

00:34:42.960 --> 00:34:49.820

choices that deliberately add load to your client, whether that's adding a spring,

00:34:49.960 --> 00:34:52.860

taking a spring off, lifting their knees up or whatever it might be,

00:34:53.040 --> 00:34:59.900

to create situations where their tissues are subjected to high levels of mechanical

00:34:59.900 --> 00:35:02.300

stress because that's how you build strength.

00:35:05.035 --> 00:35:07.975

Yeah and even and i think this also

00:35:07.975 --> 00:35:13.395

goes down to like in intensity conversations too and that that you know strength

00:35:13.395 --> 00:35:17.515

training can feel intense and so is cardiovascular work and even just from like

00:35:17.515 --> 00:35:20.875

like uh if we look at physical activity guidelines like it's a two-to-one ratio

00:35:20.875 --> 00:35:24.575

in terms of health outcomes like that means health outcomes meaning reducing

00:35:24.575 --> 00:35:26.775

cancer mortality like your ability like

00:35:26.995 --> 00:35:29.835

you dying from cancer in the future um all-cause mortality dying

00:35:29.835 --> 00:35:33.415

from any you know non-traumatic cause um cardiovascular disease

00:35:33.415 --> 00:35:36.595

diabetes mellitus uh things of that nature um

00:35:36.595 --> 00:35:39.695

it's a it's like generally thought to be a two-to-one ratio with vigorous intensity

00:35:39.695 --> 00:35:42.575

exercise compared to moderate intensity exercise meaning two

00:35:42.575 --> 00:35:47.255

minutes is like like you have double the value per minute um and then but and

00:35:47.255 --> 00:35:50.655

then even like more recent literature is challenging that i'm still suspicious

00:35:50.655 --> 00:35:54.815

on the numbers but is challenging that as well and so this idea that it's like

00:35:54.815 --> 00:35:59.015

quality over quantity is just it's folklore it's not based on anything other

00:35:59.015 --> 00:36:01.035

than a manual that was written by an entrepreneur.

00:36:02.295 --> 00:36:05.655

It's not based on any data. The data shows that actually higher intensity,

00:36:05.655 --> 00:36:10.995

if you just control for time, is actually way more valuable.

00:36:11.235 --> 00:36:13.815

That doesn't mean you have to do high intensity.

00:36:14.555 --> 00:36:18.275

You know, you can do like any movement, like the best movement is the one that you'll do.

00:36:18.635 --> 00:36:21.655

But to shy away or to argue against high

00:36:21.655 --> 00:36:24.675

intensity for the sake of quality movement

00:36:24.675 --> 00:36:27.615

or organization or these vague terms that are

00:36:27.615 --> 00:36:31.595

are shown to us in pilates um education it's

00:36:31.595 --> 00:36:35.435

it's a disservice it's it's absolute misinformation and it's not supported by

00:36:35.435 --> 00:36:40.455

any science it's it's in direct conflict um with it and i i would just advocate

00:36:40.455 --> 00:36:45.675

to add higher intensities if it is um appropriate um for the individual i'm

00:36:45.675 --> 00:36:48.015

in front of you or for you yourself like make you know.

00:36:48.700 --> 00:36:51.500

It's not a poor thing. It's not a bad thing.

00:36:51.600 --> 00:36:54.500

It's actually extremely healthy when we talk about things that are more important

00:36:54.500 --> 00:36:59.680

than our waistline or the girth of our arms, but more or less mortality in things

00:36:59.680 --> 00:37:01.260

that matter throughout the lifespan.

00:37:01.260 --> 00:37:07.840

Well, paradoxically, when I talk with John Howard Steele, who was a client of

00:37:07.840 --> 00:37:11.880

Joseph Pilates in the last few years of Joseph's life in the early 60s,

00:37:12.120 --> 00:37:21.620

he talks of being bathed in sweat and shaking after his workout and just going

00:37:21.620 --> 00:37:23.740

home and collapsing for hours.

00:37:23.740 --> 00:37:27.580

You know, that the workout was incredibly vigorous.

00:37:28.160 --> 00:37:34.640

And looking at, you know, thinking about those exercises that if you were brought

00:37:34.640 --> 00:37:40.320

up in the classical contemporary tradition, probably you would consider the advanced moves.

00:37:40.460 --> 00:37:44.700

But in Joseph's original Contrology, there was no like advanced moves.

00:37:44.700 --> 00:37:46.500

You just started with the moves.

00:37:46.680 --> 00:37:51.760

And, you know, I'm thinking about things like, you know, like the teaser,

00:37:52.160 --> 00:37:57.860

like high bridge, like snake, twist, et cetera, and the reformer control back

00:37:57.860 --> 00:38:00.600

and front, all of those like really strong moves.

00:38:00.720 --> 00:38:06.240

Like you can build genuine load and strength, you know, with those moves.

00:38:08.160 --> 00:38:12.780

And yeah, so I don't think Pilates is incompatible with strengthening at all.

00:38:12.940 --> 00:38:16.220

Now, can you build like elite power lifter levels of strength in Pilates?

00:38:16.320 --> 00:38:19.080

No, you can't. There's just not enough resistance available on the machines.

00:38:19.080 --> 00:38:23.580

But can you be like two standard deviations stronger than the average,

00:38:23.620 --> 00:38:25.040

you know, sedentary adult?

00:38:25.440 --> 00:38:30.420

Absolutely. You know, by just using reformers and mats and, you know,

00:38:30.640 --> 00:38:31.600

a ladder barrel or something.

00:38:32.140 --> 00:38:35.880

So, you know, I don't think Pilates is, you know, it's, it's kind of weird to

00:38:35.880 --> 00:38:40.920

me that we have this idea that Pilates should be all slow and soft and low load.

00:38:41.100 --> 00:38:46.540

And, you know, it's, it's like, that's actually not where Pilates started, you know?

00:38:48.907 --> 00:38:54.067

Yeah, it almost challenges the notion that Pilates is synonymous with contralogy.

00:38:54.547 --> 00:38:58.287

Like for me, I feel like Pilates is contralogy inspired movement.

00:38:58.287 --> 00:39:01.147

And I just started laughing when you started talking about John Howard Steele

00:39:01.147 --> 00:39:02.747

being like drenched in sweat.

00:39:03.107 --> 00:39:06.867

And the reason why, because I started thinking in pictures of like Joseph Pilates

00:39:06.867 --> 00:39:11.067

grabbing people's faces and hair during the sessions while he's in his underwear.

00:39:11.487 --> 00:39:14.147

And I'm like, well, yeah, I would probably listen to him too.

00:39:14.667 --> 00:39:17.407

And um and that was you know it's just like it didn't seem

00:39:17.407 --> 00:39:20.087

very uh you know i wasn't there right but uh

00:39:20.087 --> 00:39:23.227

for the footage it didn't seem very gentle um it didn't

00:39:23.227 --> 00:39:26.047

really it seemed like it really challenged control uh for

00:39:26.047 --> 00:39:29.727

sure by doing this like herky jerky movement and it didn't seem to have much

00:39:29.727 --> 00:39:34.927

of a like a dance and aesthetic uh influence and so i think it's also like you

00:39:34.927 --> 00:39:39.707

can do you can do the same exercise um at four different studios you can do

00:39:39.707 --> 00:39:43.507

the roll-up and you can have like vastly different, um, experiences.

00:39:43.747 --> 00:39:48.567

So just because you're doing the exercises or the repertoire doesn't necessarily

00:39:48.567 --> 00:39:52.767

mean that it's the same, um, experience as it may have originally been.

00:39:52.767 --> 00:39:55.427

And not that we have to do things the way they're originally intended,

00:39:55.427 --> 00:39:59.187

because I'm also not pulling my client's hair, um, you know,

00:39:59.267 --> 00:40:03.207

things of that nature, but I think it's a good perspective.

00:40:03.986 --> 00:40:10.326

Yeah, yeah, it's fine, right? Like, don't film this. Like, whatever we do for money around here.

00:40:11.486 --> 00:40:16.246

So, yeah, I think it's just fair to show that there's just many ways to experience

00:40:16.246 --> 00:40:21.586

this and that, to me, that's really cool and fun because it just means there's

00:40:21.586 --> 00:40:25.966

more to learn and that there's more to experience.

00:40:26.086 --> 00:40:29.846

And that also, it keeps Pilates really interesting because you can be a chameleon

00:40:29.846 --> 00:40:35.206

for your own clients because if anyone's taught more than 10 people, that your 9 a.m.

00:40:35.346 --> 00:40:39.066

Client is not the same as your 10 a.m. client, whether it be the cues that you

00:40:39.066 --> 00:40:43.306

use, the exercises that you select, or in this case, maybe the intensity or

00:40:43.306 --> 00:40:46.486

how you choose to, like what you choose to bias in that exercise.

00:40:46.786 --> 00:40:50.626

Yeah, something you touched on there really resonated with me,

00:40:50.706 --> 00:40:52.906

and I think it's worth unpacking just for a moment,

00:40:53.466 --> 00:40:57.606

that, you know, and I'm sort of paraphrasing and building here,

00:40:57.686 --> 00:41:02.266

but basically the feeling that as a Pilates instructor, you need to have the solution,

00:41:02.526 --> 00:41:06.066

every possible solution to every possible problem of anyone who might walk through

00:41:06.066 --> 00:41:09.106

your door, that just puts immense pressure on yourself.

00:41:09.686 --> 00:41:13.626

That is unrealistic. I mean, as a physiotherapist, as an exercise physiologist,

00:41:13.626 --> 00:41:17.506

as a medical doctor, you don't have a solution for everybody.

00:41:18.166 --> 00:41:22.986

So there is no solution for everybody. And certainly as a Pilates instructor,

00:41:23.006 --> 00:41:27.726

we have a relatively narrow scope of expertise and we can help certain people

00:41:27.726 --> 00:41:30.606

with certain things in certain circumstances.

00:41:30.966 --> 00:41:35.406

And so just taking the pressure off yourself and thinking like, okay, well,

00:41:35.606 --> 00:41:40.186

maybe I can help this person, but maybe it's like this person's better off going

00:41:40.186 --> 00:41:46.806

to the gym or some other practitioner.

00:41:47.386 --> 00:41:51.726

And you don't have to have all of the solutions to that.

00:41:52.846 --> 00:41:57.626

And we don't have to try and figure out how Pilates can cure cancer.

00:41:58.675 --> 00:42:03.095

You know, by applying the principles or what it's like, we can just go,

00:42:03.215 --> 00:42:07.575

yeah, I'm not sure if it can cure cancer, but we can give you a great workout, you know?

00:42:08.715 --> 00:42:13.455

Yeah, absolutely. And, and it's like one thing that I find peace in is that,

00:42:13.635 --> 00:42:15.955

um, you know, science doesn't have all the answers.

00:42:16.175 --> 00:42:20.655

And so if science doesn't have all the answers, like I sure don't.

00:42:21.115 --> 00:42:25.835

Um, but just, you know, always being a student, you know, of Pilates is,

00:42:25.835 --> 00:42:26.915

is really, is really fun.

00:42:27.035 --> 00:42:29.295

And I don't mean that by just, you know, constantly doing it,

00:42:29.375 --> 00:42:31.655

but constantly learning from your clients.

00:42:31.955 --> 00:42:36.215

And, you know, they're teaching you how to teach. And so, you know,

00:42:36.255 --> 00:42:38.495

be a student and immerse yourself in that.

00:42:38.715 --> 00:42:43.975

But then while you are doing so, it's helpful to understand like correct terminology.

00:42:44.395 --> 00:42:48.915

And, you know, going back to the basis of this conversation of like, well, what is strength?

00:42:49.475 --> 00:42:50.955

And then if your client is using

00:42:50.955 --> 00:42:55.655

strength, like figuring out what their definition of strength is, right?

00:42:55.655 --> 00:42:59.095

Because I can't tell you how many times it's like people want strength because

00:42:59.095 --> 00:43:05.755

they want to be able to stand up taller and not have pain in their back at the end of the day.

00:43:05.935 --> 00:43:08.195

Like, is strength going to help with that? Yeah.

00:43:08.395 --> 00:43:11.475

But that's an endurance activity. Like, that's actually talk about stamina.

00:43:11.895 --> 00:43:14.895

And so then you get more clarity on individuals.

00:43:15.675 --> 00:43:19.915

And for me, that's what's really fun about human movement, regardless if it's

00:43:19.915 --> 00:43:23.655

Pilates or personal training or physiotherapy, like, you know, whatever it may be.

00:43:23.655 --> 00:43:26.615

Um so there's just many ways

00:43:26.615 --> 00:43:29.615

to to win here and i hope that this is just valuable you know

00:43:29.615 --> 00:43:32.655

for people to have more clarity on ways

00:43:32.655 --> 00:43:35.555

to win at pilates and also you know

00:43:35.555 --> 00:43:40.315

just how much value there is for any pilates instructor to study human movement

00:43:40.315 --> 00:43:44.495

and human science that has nothing to do with pilates and then you bring it

00:43:44.495 --> 00:43:48.915

back into pilates and if you can do that if you know pilates exercises and you

00:43:48.915 --> 00:43:53.635

know exercise science like you'll be a powerhouse um in this industry like hands down.

00:43:54.984 --> 00:44:00.084

I think that's a really good point, what you said then about the way that you

00:44:00.084 --> 00:44:00.984

communicate with a client.

00:44:01.124 --> 00:44:04.424

It's much better to use the client's language and words. And if they mean something

00:44:04.424 --> 00:44:09.164

different by strength than the textbook definition, it's fine to use that term.

00:44:09.424 --> 00:44:13.424

And I think that point applies more broadly. The clients don't necessarily need

00:44:13.424 --> 00:44:18.664

to know words like scapular or that type of thing. You can just say the back of your shoulder.

00:44:19.264 --> 00:44:23.204

And that might be a better way of communicating that.

00:44:25.264 --> 00:44:30.184

Whereas on the flip side, when we're communicating within our own profession,

00:44:30.504 --> 00:44:35.904

I think the precision of words is very, very important because...

00:44:37.637 --> 00:44:40.077

I mean, if, you know, if you had two pilots flying the plane and,

00:44:40.197 --> 00:44:42.777

you know, they were using different meanings for the word altitude,

00:44:43.237 --> 00:44:46.177

you know, like that would be a problem.

00:44:48.397 --> 00:44:51.917

Luckily, the stakes are a little bit lower in Pilates.

00:44:52.197 --> 00:44:56.777

But yeah, I think there's a difference between, I just think educators are to

00:44:56.777 --> 00:45:01.297

be held accountable for education, just like Pilates instructors should be held

00:45:01.297 --> 00:45:05.097

accountable for knowing Pilates choreography, you know, and things of that nature.

00:45:05.097 --> 00:45:09.697

And that's really, you know, my mission in the Pilates,

00:45:10.017 --> 00:45:13.477

you know, I can just speak for myself in the Pilates space, you know,

00:45:13.557 --> 00:45:17.697

from an educational point of view is to elevate the education of Pilates because

00:45:17.697 --> 00:45:20.477

we, you know, we deserve to have accurate information.

00:45:20.577 --> 00:45:23.497

And then, you know, if we're looking to have accurate information,

00:45:23.497 --> 00:45:25.817

that would be, you know, from a science perspective.

00:45:25.877 --> 00:45:31.957

And it's okay for things to change, you know, over time because that's how science works.

00:45:33.277 --> 00:45:36.357

You know some of you listening you know

00:45:36.357 --> 00:45:39.517

may already know this but adam and i worked together for several years

00:45:39.517 --> 00:45:42.717

and i had that great pleasure now adam

00:45:42.717 --> 00:45:47.797

is out in the world doing his own thing where can people find you adam and what

00:45:47.797 --> 00:45:52.857

do you think yeah yeah thank you yeah um so with that you can find me on instagram

00:45:52.857 --> 00:46:00.377

uh at adam mackatee uh pilates um i'm in the pilates education space to help build the skills,

00:46:00.537 --> 00:46:03.297

knowledge, and confidence of Pilates instructors worldwide.

00:46:03.737 --> 00:46:08.097

So if you enjoy science, I'm happy to be a good resource for you.

00:46:08.757 --> 00:46:12.657

And as always, a pleasure talking with you, Adam. Thanks so much for coming on the show.

00:46:14.037 --> 00:46:15.077

Yeah, thanks, Raph.