00:00:06 Sana: Birth is one of the most powerful transitions in human life listeners, and yet so many families walk into it feeling anxious, overwhelmed, or simply unprepared for the emotional weight of that experience. Now, let's just imagine about this what if preparation for birth wasn't just about hospital bags and breathing techniques, but it's about the mind, the nervous system, the way fear and trust live in the body.

00:00:45 Sana: So listeners, welcome back all to the Mindful Living podcast. Now, today's episode is a bit special and more and more important because we are talking about birth. We're talking about mindfulness in birth preparation. I mean, it is one of the most important, important aspect of all of us, we humans, the entire humanity in there. And this conversation will be exploring the intersection of science, emotion, and lived human experience. How mindfulness in birth preparation may reduce pain during labor, and why many are calling it one of the most impactful natural supports for postpartum mental health. And this is joining me is someone who lives this work every day. As Susie Weir's journey into birth work began with a deep calling to support women during one of life's most powerful and vulnerable moments, birth after her own eye opening childbirth experience. She became a trained doula. Dedicated to ensuring that no parent feels alone, unheard or disempowered in their transition into parenthood. So Susie, once again, welcome, and I'm really, really honored.

00:02:07 Suzzie Vehrs: Oh my goodness, you cannot believe how honored I am to be here as well. Um, just the presence and joy that this podcast sparks. It's a privilege to be here.

00:02:17 Sana: Thank you so much, Susie. And I'm really honored, especially because, um, it's, it's really, really a blessing. And, uh, I don't know, I, I, I can't, um, give a language to those feelings because those feelings when you see it's, it's a miracle, you know, that's what we call about. But then at the same time, I think if you look at the other side of the coin, um, in many cultures, in many, many, um, you know, societies, countries, I don't know, but still there is a lot of, um, there are a There are a lot of misconceptions and maybe a lot of lot of unawareness around post birth. You know, the postpartum mental health, especially around women because maybe people are not aware about it, or they may not just want to even talk about it. But I'm really glad that you're bringing up this conversation for all of us on the mindful living. So once again, thank you. Thank you so much.

00:03:20 Suzzie Vehrs: Thank you. Yeah, I think about that. Um, you know, birth is a day, sometimes a couple day event, but that postpartum period is an entire season of your life. It's not something that just unfolds in one moment. It's ever, ever changing and ever growing. Just like if you look at the spring outside, every, every day looks a little bit different and feels a little bit different.

00:03:45 Sana: It does. And, um, I mean, I, I do have a lot of, uh, you know, kind of that curiosity sometimes that kind of, you know, questioning, uh, from a critical point of view that why, uh, why especially women's health, um, especially after childbirth is not considered seriously, uh, not in the medical circles, but then more around in the communities and families. In many cultures, it is still not talked about. It's kind of assumed that you are done and that's it. You are back to it. Everything is normal, but it's not. It is not. And, um, that is why I think we, we need to have more and more conversations with the right alignment and the right mind, right intention, that openness. And it's not just women, but for men, for everyone out there. Because, you know, I mean, it's, it's something, it's origin point of all of us.

00:04:49 Suzzie Vehrs: Us. There's this expectation that you have six weeks after birth, and then after that at six weeks. Like it's almost an expectation to bounce back into the life you had before. But the reality is that it takes six weeks for your uterus to shrink back down to the size it was before you were pregnant. And when that six week countdown began, that was all that they were measuring. Is your uterus grew to accommodate your baby. Birthed your baby, and now your uterus. An organ in your body is the same that it was before. But that doesn't mean that the whole person has gone back to who they were before. Because you became a mother, you became a parent. And I think for the men too, they're also going through a process in becoming a father. And that's not a shift that just takes place with the snap of a finger.

00:05:44 Sana: Absolutely, absolutely. Okay. Um, let's let's First. Uh, Susie, uh, let's let's start with, you know how you, um, stepped into birth work after a very personal awakening? So from what you have, um, seen, both in your own journey and with families that you support, where do most parents feel mentally unprepared for birth today?

00:06:14 Suzzie Vehrs: You know, I think that a lot of parents are focusing on birth as just a medical event. Like our only goal from this is the health and safety. Maybe even health is an overestimate of what people are hoping for, that they want to come out like with everybody having a heartbeat. And that is so important. Obviously, like childbirth can be dangerous. There are rare times where it goes from being this beautiful, natural thing to where we do need support, and our bodies do need to be taken care of. And we do need the medicine side, but to put that as the only hope when it can be so much greater than that. Um, I think that a lot of parents are forgetting that it's also a moment of bonding, a moment of change, a moment of evolution. And they're focused so much on the what can go wrong medically that they're not focused on embracing the whole evolution that's happening. As a person.

00:07:17 Sana: It actually is. Right. And I'll be very guilty though. Um, I did not have yet the bliss to, uh, be or, you know, be blessed with the, with the, you know, joy of being a parent. But then what I also kind of think is all about, you know, the childbirth and having a family, it's mostly from the health and the finance Perspective because, I mean, I don't know, Susie, but we're kind of, you know, bombarded by these kind of discussions only like family planning in terms of your health and financial health and finances, economy and, and, uh, you know, investment savings and all that. But then I think we really think about, you know, how we change how our, our homes, you know, or the environment changes, how our mindset can have this entire different shift in there. So that is something that you pointed out beautifully in the way you explained. Um, and I think, um, it's definitely emotional readiness and nervous system safety. And it feels important because many, many parents think that preparation just means information that you read books and you get to know more about parenting, not regulation. So yeah, it makes absolute sense in there.

00:08:44 Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah. And I think too, when you're going into especially labor and delivery, there's an element of, um, you're going to have to do something hard. You know, contractions are not necessarily easy. And a lot of people are worried about, um, like, how are they going to cope with this pain? But when you bring mindfulness in, there's this deliberate shift to open hearted attention and the moment by moment unfolding of what's happening. So you're not thinking about like the worst case scenario, not you're not thinking about how much further is there to go. You're just focused on like, can I cope in this moment? What is beautiful about this moment? And you're trusting and you're surrendering to to the process that your body knows. And the really surprising thing about that is that it sounds just like a, um, I remember, you know, before I started practicing mindfulness myself, I remember thinking like it seemed a little like hippie or weird or out there to me. Um, but I was convinced to do it, especially when I was preparing for my birth, because I read a study that showed that just eight weeks of mindfulness training can reduce your pain in labor by forty percent, which is pretty startling. Yeah. It is, it is funny.

00:10:07 Sana: It's it's actually very kind of surprising. And I really appreciate that you brought mindfulness because it's kind of the perfect segue in here. Now there's a growing conversation around mindfulness, you know, reducing. And you exactly helped that with the, you know, the number in there. But from your experience in the bathroom, Susie, um, what actually changes when a mother is mentally and emotionally grounded versus when she is in a heightened state of fear?

00:10:40 Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah. Well, I think that fear and pain can kind of cascade to creating more fear and pain. And that happens on a physical level as well, as well as an emotional level. So a lot of times with, um. You know, I teach childbirth because so much of the effort around childbirth is to remove pain or wall off the pain, rather than aiming to change your relationship to the pain and the sensations. And once you can make that mindset shift of like, hey, this pain is my friend. It's helping me bring my baby here. This is not dangerous. This is a time where I can be present and I can be in the zone and I can work with this pain. Then I think it becomes less, uh, emotionally overwhelming and it becomes something that you can actually engage with versus if we keep it in a place where like we're trying to, to block ourselves or wall ourselves off from it, um, it's really difficult when, when those methods don't really work, right? And so when you switch into mindfulness, you switch into a place where you're, you're not afraid of the work of labor anymore. You're able to embrace it and work with your body, which will naturally just lead you into breathing deeper, which brings more oxygen to your baby and to your muscles, which helps your body work better. It helps your muscles have the oxygen that they need to perform because your uterus, which is creating all those contractions, it's really just one big, very strong muscle. And your baby needs the oxygen because their oxygen supplies your oxygen supply. So if you're breathing deeply, if you're relaxing your body, then that helps your baby experience labor from that safer, safer place as well, both physiologically because they're less likely to, um, have have times in labor where they're not getting enough oxygen. And, um, but I personally believe the babies are also experiencing everything that a mother is experiencing. So if you are afraid your baby's being washed in those same hormones of fear and stress as well. But if you're calm, your present, your baby gets to experience that as well. Absolutely.

00:13:17 Sana: I also do believe that I also absolutely do believe that. And, and, um, um, I mean, first of all, uh, it is actually kind of, you know, I don't know, not funny, but I must say that hearing you kind of actually, it makes me calm as well because yes, it is physical pain. There is that fear as well. The labor pain. But then I think, um, it's not about removing that intensity. We're not dismissing or discounting that intensity, but it kind of, you know. It's changing the relationship our body and mind have with what's happening. Um, and, uh, Susie, moving on. Um, can you, can you walk us through a real moment you have witnessed where mindfulness practices, um, visibly shifted how someone moved through labor pain? Yeah.

00:14:27 Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah, absolutely. Well, I always think that it's easier to stay, to stay grounded and present than it is to come back to presence. but in any labor I think that it's very possible to feel overwhelmed by. By pain, where sometimes you'll see. You'll see a mom get like very stressed, kind of panicky in her eyes, wondering like, am I okay? Is it supposed to hurt this bad? How am I going to survive? And I think that that, um, like you, I, I think if you think about like a distressed animal, like the, the wide eyes, you know, when they draw the cartoons with like the hair sticking up, um, that, that like stress level that's in every ounce, every muscle, every breath. Sometimes if you're able to hold the mom's hand and look in her eyes and say, look at me, let's breathe together. You just take a deep breath in and a deep breath out, and you work on feeling safety and, uh, bringing that safety into your body, letting your fingers relax your toes, relax your shoulders, relax that a lot of times a mother can move from one of those like that very intense, stressed out state to then when the contractions are over or like between contractions, because they kind of come in waves. Um, and that space in between that a mother can relax so much that she's laughing, that she's sleeping, that she's in a state of so much peace. And that is something that comes with mindfulness practice. I think that sometimes with mindfulness, um, we like to read about it in the sense that like, oh yeah, I know that mindfulness helps. And then we expect it to work in the moment. My observation is that the people that practice mindfulness throughout their pregnancy then have a developed skill and tool to use during labor.

00:16:28 Sana: HMM. That is interesting. It is, it is. Um, and so I kind of want to, um, put a bit of, uh, you know, kind of a challenge in there. Not exactly a challenge, but just a more nuanced thing that, you know, some critics would say that, um, the mindfulness conversation around birth, it can unintentionally place pressure on mothers, you know, um, like if, um, I can be more, I can be clearer, like almost implying that if labor feels overwhelming, they simply didn't prepare their mindset enough. So how do you respond to that concern?

00:17:13 Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah. Well, I don't think that a mother can fail in labor, but I do believe a mother can have a good experience that she looks back with in pride, or she can have an experience that she needs to heal from. And I think that the experience that you have on the emotional level doesn't necessarily mirror the experience you have on the physical level. Meaning that a mother who is grounded and mindful might go through a very scary birth experience and have some very medical things that happen, but might come through it with peace. Whereas it's possible for a person to have what from the outside looks like a perfect birth experience. But when you talk to that mom, you find out that she's carrying a lot of stress. So I would say it's not so much about putting pressure on a mother to perform and make something difficult look easy, but it's more about embracing the reality that practicing mindfulness, it changes your brain, changes your amygdala, which is the part of your brain that's responsible for emotions of stress and fear and anxiety. You get more gray matter in your brain when you practice mindfulness, which helps you cope better when difficult things do come your way and it helps you produce less of the stress hormones like cortisol. So I would say if a mom has a difficult birth, it's never her fault. It's never because she didn't quote unquote do enough. She did the best she had with what she had. Right? But I do think that when we teach mothers about mindfulness and we help them develop that skill, we're almost giving them a key that can unlock a different type of experience. And I think mothers deserve to have that key, and then they have the right to do with it what they want.

00:19:12 Sana: Exactly, exactly. I think that's the key part in there. And I also I also appreciate that you mentioned this because it's, it's kind of the, you know, very natural kind of a misconception with mindfulness is that it's more about running away from your reality or kind of numbing yourself away from the pain that you, you know, you kind of manipulate yourself to not to feel it. That's, that's not, not the, not the thing here. It's, I think it's kind of, um, like the birth is unpredictable. And the last thing that any parent needs is to feel like they somehow failed if their experience was intense or messy. So it's like acknowledging that the pain is there, but in a different way. We are responding to it.

00:20:03 Suzzie Vehrs: Exactly.

00:20:06 Sana: And, um, Susie, let's also talk about, uh, the postpartum depression connection here because some research and practitioners are now calling mindfulness in birth prep one of the most powerful natural supports for postpartum depression. It is it is huge. I also find it very, very huge and very interesting to explore personally. But then from what you have observed, Um, I would love to know what's the connection between how someone experiences birth and how then they emotionally land in that postpartum period?

00:20:42 Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah. You know, I think that some people view birth as like a stress test on your well-being. And, you know, we, we don't necessarily get to choose our grit and resilience, right? If you have a much more difficult birth than your neighbor, it's not your fault if it takes extra time to heal. If you come out of birth being like, wow, I really need to heal and recover from this. Instead of looking back at it and saying like, oh my God, I did that. I'm so strong. I feel like somebody who can accomplish anything, right? Um, I think that when you get to postpartum. There are so many factors that go into your well-being that To to take complete responsibility for the story and saying, if I had done these things better, I would have been in a different position is sometimes too much responsibility. But to acknowledge, hey, I am suffering right now. I do not feel the way that I want to feel or expected to feel. I wanted this period of my life to be a time of happiness and joy and bonding and laughter and fun and peacefulness, but instead, everything feels grey and dull and I'm struggling. But there's an immense amount of bravery in acknowledging that difference in your feelings and that difference in your experience, and that mindfulness is not the only tool, but that it can be very helpful in making space to process trauma that happened from the birth or, um, allowing your nervous system to reset after going through something that maybe, maybe really threw your system off. Um, helping you find that sense of, of peace, not just for your spirit, but also for the recalibration of your entire nervous system and the way that your, you're taking in the sensory input around you and processing that day to day, moment to moment.

00:22:54 Sana: HMM. HMM. I think it's kind of, you know, um, and makes sense, you know, because, um, when the nervous system, you know, it goes through birth feeling supported rather than, you know, overwhelmed. And it's not just the physical recovery that we are looking at, but it's more like, you know, an emotional and, um, psychological recovery as well. I mean, I would like to look at mindfulness, a kind of, you know, this natural, um, I don't know if I'm right or wrong, the kind of this natural shock absorber.

00:23:37 Suzzie Vehrs: Oh my God, that's a beautiful way to put it.

00:23:40 Sana: Oh, okay. Okay. Thank you so much. Okay, Susie, before we wrap up, um, you mentioned something that is very, very important in there to consider that it's not just the only like mindfulness is not the only like number one, natural intervention. It can be a way to begin. Um, so, uh, when should families absolutely be thinking beyond mindfulness and seeking additional layers of support?

00:24:11 Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah. You know, I think, uh, you had mentioned talking about finances with the baby. And I think one of the things that is tremendously helpful is to have somebody coming to the home to help with meal prep and the physical needs of the the parents and the, the the newborn as well. Um, if it's possible to, to just plan to have support, whether it's from a family member or it's from a postpartum doula or if it's from somebody that, um, is only focused on you for a month, that's a beautiful gift to give your family. I also think that, um, I know for me, I did suffer with postpartum depression quite a bit after my first child. And I found that mindfulness, that was when I first embraced mindfulness and it helped me so much. Also, talk therapy helped. And I think that you'll know, like if you're looking at your life and you're like, I want to feel better. I don't feel the way that I know I deserve and the way that I know is the potential for me. Then reaching out to either a therapist or your doctor or somebody that specializes in the, um, postpartum era is a very wise thing to do.

00:25:36 Speaker 3: As it is.

00:25:37 Sana: I'm really thankful that you mentioned that because I think this balance, it's, it feels important, um, honoring the power of mindset and nervous system work while also respecting that postpartum mental health can have many, many contributing factors. And I think that's where it's not just, um, on just one person, not the mother, but, you know, the people around her father. I mean, and, and maybe, um, you know, like in, in India sometimes, you know, um, we talk about how, um, grandparents, uh, they can be so, so instrumental in shaping, uh, a child's, um, you know, entire childhood in there, how they can support, uh, the new, uh, new, new mothers.

00:26:30 Suzzie Vehrs: I think grandparents are one of the most underrated medicines in in life, that the spirit that they can contribute and the knowledge and wisdom that they carry and the perspective from being like having, having gone through it and being like all the way on the other side is just such a huge gift to those grandparents willing to, willing to, to invest their time and energy into their, their grandchildren.

00:27:02 Sana: I know, I know it is.

00:27:04 Speaker 3: It is, it is absolutely. And, um.

00:27:07 Sana: I think we are, we are, um, we're wrapping up this conversation at such a beautiful, beautiful note. Um, Susie, before we wrap up, if our listeners, um, especially, uh, you know, all the. Especially for any parent listening right now, maybe pregnant, maybe planning, maybe even feeling anxious about what's ahead. Um, is there any one simple mindfulness practice they could start, you know, this week or maybe after this conversation that genuinely prepares the body and mind for birth?

00:27:43 Suzzie Vehrs: Yeah, I really think that the quickest and easiest mindfulness practice for me is a counted breath. I really like to do a breath that's like an inhale of four. Then you hold it for a count of seven, and then you exhale for a count of eight. If I'm feeling stressed or overwhelmed and I slow down and I do that breath a handful of times, I'm almost always recentered and can be at my strongest, and I see that happen for people in labor all the time.

00:28:16 Sana: For seven and eight. Super, super. Thank you so much for sharing that, Susie. And of course our listeners. They would like to further connect with you. What's the best medium?

00:28:28 Suzzie Vehrs: My website is ww dot. Com and you can find me on Instagram as well at she births bravely beautiful listeners.

00:28:42 Sana: I'm gonna mention all the links in the show notes. Connect with Susie. Find her on Instagram. I'll put the link in there, follow her, connect with her. And of course, um, I think listeners, there is something deeply, deeply human about today's conversation because birth, I mean, for all its medical structure, it is still still profoundly emotional. It's deeply physical. And yes, it is intensely psychological. And what we heard today isn't about controlling birth. It's about meeting it with more awareness, more regulation, and more self-trust. So, Suzy, I really, really appreciate because you brought, um, grounded, compassionate perspective to this space and also for the, for the work that you are doing to make sure families feel supported, not just clinically, but emotionally.

00:29:40 Suzzie Vehrs: Yes. Thank you so much for having me. Zena.

00:29:44 Sana: And to all my listeners, if this conversation gave you even one moment of pause, one new insight, or maybe one question to reflect on, this is exactly why the mindful living exists. So do follow us. And, uh, thank you so much for tuning in. And this is your host and I'll catch you in the next episode. Until next time, take care of yourself and your loved ones. Thank you.