Welcome to the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Podcast.

I'm Kate Moore Youssef and I'm a wellbeing and lifestyle coach, EFT practitioner, mum to four kids and passionate about helping more women to understand and accept their amazing ADHD brains.

After speaking to many women just like me and probably you, I know there is a need for more health and lifestyle support for women newly diagnosed with adhd.

In these conversations, you'll learn from insightful guests, hear new findings and discover powerful perspectives and lifestyle tools to enable you to live your most fulfilled, calm and purposeful life wherever you are on your ADHD journey.

Here's today's episode.

Today I am bringing you some of my most favourite topics and I'm really excited to welcome Kevin Levers to the podcast.

Now, Kevin, if you've not heard of him, is the visionary founder of the Naked Pharmacy and it's the UK's first 100% natural online pharmacy.

Now you may have remembered the name Naked Pharmacy because they kindly sponsored the podcast a few months ago and the reason why I brought them on was because I am a big, big fan of their products.

So with a career spanning over 40 years in the healthcare industry, Kevin's expertise is unparalleled, grounded in both pharmac innovation and a deep respect for natural remedies.

And his journey into pharmacy began with one of the most iconic names, Jesse Boot.

The founder of Boots Pharmacy.

Kevin isn't just a pharmacist, he's a pioneer in natural health.

With decades of experience across pharmaceuticals, herbal medicine and research, he offers a unique perspective on the intersection of science and nature.

So whether discussing his early days in drug discovery or the latest innovations in plant based healthcare, Kevin is going to bring us his expertise and his passion so he we can all feel more educated to make smarter health choices.

So, really happy to have you here.

Kevin, welcome.

Thanks for inviting me on.

I'm really excited about the discussion.

Yeah.

So the reason why this all came about is because I've been taking your product Safro sun for a really long time.

Actually, whenever it first launched I think I was probably one of the first people on it because I was told that saffron can be really, really helpful for anxiety and mood regulation.

I started taking it and I realized it was very, very helpful and I've continued to take it and I give a different type of saffron to one of my daughters as well and that really helps her.

She's sort of the more anxious disposition with her adhd.

So I would love to Hear a little bit about your background and I know you've got a special interest in adhd, a personal interest.

Maybe you can begin there.

And then what led from you being a pharmacist into more natural health?

Yeah, I've been fascinated by the role of herbal medicine as well as food based science for a long, long time.

But especially because when I was making that transition from conventional medicine, you know, as a pharmacist, I was a research chemist for a while before I went into pharmacy and I could see the best of both worlds, but I could see that that wasn't happening in practice, that most people were just being offered a conventional choice rather than an integrated approach.

I thought felt that we were dominated by synthetic chemicals rather than actually looking at ways we could perhaps stop that snowballing effect.

And I think it really hit me personally when I was at university.

I think I suffered a lot with anxiety when I was at university.

You know, it snowballed to the point where it was affecting my sleep.

I mean, goodness know how I got through my finals.

But I think a lot of it was just coping and pushing through.

And I think it wasn't till my 20s and early 30s that I started to understand that perhaps I was wired a bit differently to, to the people around me or I just didn't really understand what was happening to me.

I think that, you know, over the last few years in particular, I've been doing a lot of research into ad, autism, neurodiversity.

I've been starting on this journey of understanding how I respond to external stimulants and how I respond to food.

So the way I eat and drink now is completely different to what I used to do when I was at university.

So I look back and think, no wonder I felt edgy all the time.

I wasn't sleeping because my breakfast consisted of cereals which were full of sugar.

I look back on that and I used to eat a lot of bread, which is also carb and full of sugar.

And I realized that that was driving part of the issue.

So gradually I was able to peel back through that journey and I think generally, I mean, we're still.

It's an ongoing kind of journey, isn't it, with adhd?

I think, you know, I've never been assessed, but I certainly tick all the boxes when I read the assessments and I think I am going to go and have myself assessed properly.

And some of these issues were manifesting in our son.

He was difficult in switching off, overactive and didn't sleep very well at all in his early years.

And that was having a big impact on myself and my wife.

So I wanted to help him and I wanted to help us.

So that was kind of one of the original drivers and the reason why, when I came across the research on the impact of saffron on the nervous system, I thought, well, why isn't this out there?

And there's one or two products out there, but they weren't transferring the science to the actual formulation.

And I approached a number of people, number of companies, in terms of trying to help them as a consultant, but not interested.

And a lot of that is due to price, because as soon as you start applying the science to the formulation, making sure it's consistently and vigorously applied across the.

From sourcing, the growing conditions, the testing, the way it's manufactured, the way it's converted into a capsule or a tablet or whatever, that wasn't happening.

So I came up with the concept of the Naked Pharmacy because I, I felt there was a big gap.

Where do people go?

There are literally hundreds, if not thousands of products on the Internet and that seems to be growing every week.

And how do people navigate all of this?

And actually access to pharmacists.

We've lost two and a half thousand pharmacies in the last few years on the high street.

Access to doctors, the ability to people to get balanced information so that it can make an empowered choice was becoming more and more difficult.

So I wanted to create a hub.

I had a blog called the Naked Pharmacist because I'd read some of Jamie Oliver's stuff.

So I thought, well, he's a naked chef.

So I become the naked pharmacist.

I wanted to make a difference.

So the Naked Pharmacy was born literally on the back of two products.

So, I mean, it's ridiculous really, when I look back.

And Safrasun was our first product we launched, and it wasn't till, you know, I'd seen the data, seen the research, and I was excited by it.

But it wasn't until we got the product to market and I started getting testimonials from people that were taking it that I realized, well, this is a game changer.

And I think there is an assumption out there which is that foods can't make a difference.

There's medicines on this side and there's foods on this side, and if you've got a medical problem, then you've got to turn to the medicines and not the food.

And I think that's completely incorrect.

And actually the difference between the medicine and food is Actually a lot closer than we think.

Something like 50% of the most commonly prescribed drugs I discovered from plants and then they're made synthetically and actually the difference is dose and the quality element.

So if you can convert the plant or the herb or the food to a higher dose, more refined formula, then it'll behave as a medicine.

And in certain areas you're not allowed to say that.

I was once told by a regulator I'm not allowed to say food is medicine.

So I thought that was quite interesting.

And I think that this is a problem, is that the two are separate and they're not really.

Is that because of, without sounding too sort of, you know, negative like the Big Pharma, you know, God forbid, should we say anything that could potentially direct people away from synthetic pharmaceuticals and empower people with more natural, holistic choices?

I don't think it's like that.

I think people have an assumption that Big Pharma does this or does that.

I think there are a lot of really well intentioned, very intelligent people within pharma, but they're such big organizations that are often very compartmentalized.

And the infrastructure, in terms of legal infrastructure within governments, whether it's EU or UK is totally geared towards that approach.

And so when the legal framework doesn't allow foods to be treated as medicine or even be called medicine, then that's an issue from a regulatory point of view.

And I think we, we've had this regulation for goodness knows how long, over 50 years, and we probably need to review it because things have moved on, things have changed, but the regulatory structure is exactly the same.

Some elements of that regulatory structure should be applied to nutritional supplements, herbal medicine, because the quality elements of what pharmaceuticals do would be a great thing for the natural world.

Because often I see that's not applied.

But I think a lot of it is about awareness for the people, the consumers out there in terms of what they should be looking for and the questions they should be asking and where to go for balanced information.

Because we're getting so called experts on the net, you should take this, you should take that, whatever.

And actually in terms of communication, I think people need to just know what the balance arguments for and against are, how they're made, where the ingredients are from, how it's manufactured, how it's quality controlled, and it's those elements.

I think when people then start taking that information in and learn how to analyze that in a very simple way, then I think then they'll be selecting supplements that are very effective and very safe.

I Think unfortunately there's a lot out there that aren't effective and some that aren't safe.

So that's what we're, you know, that's what I set up the naked pharmacy to do is to, from my own experience, is to solve problems, solve health problems quickly, naturally, if we could, to do it in an integrated way.

And I think, you know, it solved my son's sleeping problem and thank goodness, you know, I'm sleeping well since.

And I've been taking Saffron since it was launched.

I've never stopped.

Yeah, no, likewise, Saffron's always up there and you know, since I started the podcast.

The podcast started three and a half years ago, just over three and a half years ago.

And from one of the very early episodes my curiosity and my questioning was why was the only directive after an ADHD diagnosis was medication, stimulant medication, which can be very, very helpful for people.

I'm very pro medication if it can help you.

But there was just no information out there as to how we can holistically help ourselves.

Hence the ADHD women's well being.

And that's when I have gone down a three and a half year journey of speaking to many specialists about more lifestyle, holistic, more natural ways that can work alongside with, you know, our adhd, help improve our brain health, our cognition, our mood, help balance our hormones, sleep, anxiety, so many different parts of the very challenging traits of adhd.

It's this kind of blended, integrated approach, isn't it?

That yes, supplements are really helpful, but we also need to do the other stuff to feel the benefits.

It's kind of like an ecosystem, isn't it?

It is.

And I think it's about providing people with a toolkit that they can select from that's right for them.

And you know, I'm really mindful that if we're not careful, you know, say, say somebody's eating a, an ultra processed food that's got artificial colorants in there.

And I think the stat is at least 40% of the foods that we're feeding the kids have got those sort of artificial colorants or various kind of fillers and binders that you have and you can get those in supplements as well.

And there's data to confirm that that drives ADH symptoms and drives them out of control.

So actually you can take all the medication you like and can take all the supplements you like, but if the underlying factors are still there driving the imbalances, then actually you actually setting yourself up to fail.

I agree with you entirely.

That you can't look at these things in isolation.

And that's one thing that we train the pharmacists here to do, is that they look at things holistically.

So they'll provide free advice holistically alongside your supplements.

What are you doing lifestyle wise?

What are you doing in terms of food?

And I think that's really fundamental because otherwise you're just going to undermine whatever it is you're taking.

So tell me a little bit about this service because it sounds really fascinating that you have, you sell supplements but you also offer a pharmacist service.

Am I right in saying that people can get a free call and actually ask someone who's fully trained this information.

Absolutely free of charge.

They can set up an appointment online, they can call us at the naked pharmacy or they can email pharmacisthenakedpharmacy.com We've got five pharmacists, including myself, plus two prescribing pharmacists.

The pharmacist will assess, look at their historical information and then make a recommendation.

And, and often as not, that may include prescription medication they're taking, or it may include supplements that we don't actually sell online.

So the service side of the company is really, really important to me because having gone through a 40 year career, I could have easily stayed as a consultant.

It was probably an easier, healthier life, less challenging.

But I wanted to create some sort of legacy that would carry on for a long time.

I want this pharmacy to be around like boots in 100 years time, but really helping people get well and stay well and helping to stop that snowballing effect onto something more serious.

Because I think, you know, we know that a lot of mental health conditions are starting very young.

So if we can capture the parents and perhaps the children by proxy and make that intervention to stop that snowballing, then wouldn't that be fantastic?

You know, I look back and think, well, if somebody was advising me, you know, when I was a child in terms of what I should be eating and what should be drinking, we used to have the.

I cringe sometimes when I look back and I used to have the pop van that turned up and this whole crate of fizzy drinks, it was full of sugar, used to ride.

And sometimes I come back from, you know, playing football or whatever it is, and I glug half a bottle of one of these things, you know, huge amount of sugar, goodness knows how many grams of sugar there was in there.

And I look back and think, well, I wonder half of my Symptoms that evolved and started really expressing themselves when I was at university.

A lot of that, the foundation for that and the imbalance and also antibiotic use, overuse of antibiotics, countless time and the impact that hassling your gut biome and then the knock on effect between the biome and your brain.

Yeah, you know we talk about brain chemistry but actually you can't separate the two.

Most of our serotonin is produced in the gut and not in the brain.

So and this vagal nerve connection between the gut and the brain is really fundamental.

So what you're eating is having an effect on your sleep, on your mood and your energy levels and how you're feeling.

Yeah, absolutely.

And I think what's really important to state is that we're born with differently wide brains, but we have highly sensitive systems, nervous systems and hormonal systems.

And maybe there's an interaction with trauma and other difficulties and challenges which sort of, you know, compound different ADHD symptoms.

But like you say, if there's a way of us being able to lessen these symptoms and traits and we can, we can always heal, we can heal our gut, we can heal our brain health, we can, we can help ourselves, I would say have still live with ADHD neurodivergence.

But just like you say, we can sleep better, we can function better, we can feel more balanced, our mood.

And so much of this is awareness of understanding.

Like you say, looking back back in the day when smoking was advertised and people would smoke everywhere and it was just like the norm.

And then now we look around, we think how, how and sugar's going to be that, you know, processed food is going to be that I hope and 20 years time gonna look back and just think, can't believe that that was a normal thing that we allowed, you know, ourselves and our children to have.

Okay, here's an example.

So you've got your pharmacist and I'm just a mum maybe with an ADHD child.

And I'm finding out that I'm also ADHD myself.

And there's other things going on, maybe perimenopause, my kids on another on medication and I'm on different types of medication.

Does that mean instead of just going to our high street pharmacy we can call up your pharmacist and give them all the sort of the background, but they'll also have the very holistic side of this, this perspective.

Because I know if I go into my high street pharmacist, there's a very low chance of them really understanding this more Holistic picture.

Is that what naked pharmacies doing?

Yeah, I think we're one of the few pharmacies in the, in the country that got the level of expertise that we have in house and the number of pharmacists.

It's very unusual to have more than one pharmacist per pharmacy these days.

And, you know, we're lucky enough to have seven.

We really welcome it.

We like to have the conversation.

Health is a story, it's not just a symptom.

And often, you know, we'll peel back to it.

There may be an event or something happened.

You know, they've been on holiday, for instance, and had a really bad tummy bug and then went on two or three courses of antibiotics.

And there's interesting stat that if a woman over 40 has a course of antibiotics, they're significantly more likely to have anxiety or depression within the following six months.

And so that just tells you.

So that's the sort of information that we're trying to dig into and find.

And look, if, if you've only got literally a couple of minutes, we can equally adapt to that.

It's really to try to give lots of people access to free advice that can make them.

Well, you know, it's very simple for me, it's like, how, how do we make people better and keep them well and interesting for me, from your perspective, how do you select supplements or try supplements?

Did you hear about it on the net and then you think, I'll try that?

What's, what's your process to.

Yeah, I mean, I've, I've always been a big fan of supplements because my mum, who is also got ADHD, she's sort of never also been diagnosed, but she's 72 now and so she was actually very early, she pioneered supplements, natural health.

She was shopping in all these sort of like hippie vegetarian natural health shops back in the 80s when it was literally just sugar processed food.

White bread house would be the house that no one wanted to eat in because she would have things like carob instead of chocolate, she'd be having whole meal bread, she would be trying to give us more pulses and homeopathy.

So much stuff that she was so ahead of her time.

So I, from a very early age would always reach for the natural health option.

And then when I, I don't know, probably in my early 20s, I started recognizing there was a lot of anxiety there.

I didn't know it was anxiety.

And I just started doing a bit of research and so for me, my, the supplements I'VE taken for so long are flaxseed oil tablets, probiotics, magnesium, B vitamins and obviously saffron.

And then now that there's a bit of a mix going on as well, lots of other things.

And I do have a big kitchen cabinet rattling with various supplements.

And I get sent a lot of supplements as well, as I'm always trying different ones and functional mushrooms.

So I definitely know that I medicate myself for my ADHD with supplements and one of my biggest fears is going on holiday and forgetting my supplements because it did happen.

So the reason why I know that they helped me is because I had about three days without taking them.

And I really noticed a difference.

Like I was more jittery, I was more restless, I didn't sleep well.

I also am on HRT now, and for me, the progesterone, the Body Identical progesterone has been an absolute game changer.

And I wanted to talk to you about that because we talk about synthetic chemicals and then we are more, more sensitive to them.

So I started getting perimenopause symptoms when I was 41, so I'm now 45, and I was convinced I'm far too young to go through perimenopause.

But now we know with neurodivergent women, we know that perimenopause starts earlier and the symptoms can feel a bit more intense and we end up having a longer perimenopause and that really affects us from a mental health side as well.

But I was very nervous because I'd taken.

I'd been on synthetic progesterone, I'd had a marina coil and I reacted very, very badly to that.

You know, thankfully, after three months, it was gone.

So when I started Body Identical progesterone, I was very, very nervous.

But actually I've gone quite high on my levels of progesterone and for me now it has been a game changer.

My anxiety is as definitely lessened, my sleep has improved, I feel more regulated, my nervous system.

I'm still quite prone to being a bit jittery and restless, especially towards the end of my cycle.

But instead of having like two weeks of no sleep, I might have two nights of not sleeping brilliantly, which I can handle.

So.

And I talk, I've talked about natural progesterone quite a lot on the podcast and I'm still in some form of shock that it's not available over the counter, that women don't, can't be empowered to use it as a mood stabilizer, as an antidepressant as a sleep improver.

And I just wondered what your thoughts are as a pharmacist as to why we're so behind the times with natural progesterone.

From my own experience, and also people that have talked to me about their experiences with their HRT and their perimenopause menopause as well, that there's still a huge swathe of medical practitioners that are stuck in the past and it's so individual.

It's absolutely right that you adjust and change.

And as with any conventional medication, some will suit people, some will don't.

And I think that lack of flexibility sometimes can cause so many problems.

So absolutely, if you're not getting on well with your prescribed medication, do go back to the doctor and say this is not suiting me.

What's the alternative?

What's the other solutions?

And sometimes that also requires you to do a bit of research yourself.

But as I say, that's what exactly what we're here for is to provide some support and advice and reassurance and if needs be, we can check the quality of the product that you're using.

So, so you know, you've got to decide whether something's safe and effective, where is it coming from, how is it being made, what standards are they manufacturing the product to?

So they should be able to answer that very quickly and very transparently.

And if they're not able to do that, then you can draw your own conclusions about the supplier that you're using.

And I think that's really important.

And also, look, we're not anti synthetic, but I think people need to know when they're taking a synthetic versus a natural and that should be transparent.

Unfortunately at the moment, you know, most vitamins, 99% of vitamins and minerals on the market are synthetic and they called natural even though they're made.

And actually if you track back in terms of how they're made chemically or biochemically, then I think a lot of people would think twice about taking them.

Vitamin C is a classic example six stage process from corn often which is GM cord.

So when you see ascorbic acid in your supplement or in your breakfast cereal or in your drink, it's used as a stabilizer or is it used as a substitute for true vitamin C?

And you assume it's natural because it sounds like vitamin C, they'll say vitamin C in brackets.

But actually it's made from often from GM corn in a six stage chemical process using a lot of solvents along the way.

And each of Those solvents can leave a residue in, in the end product.

So that's another thing that people don't.

So every supplement, if it's made synthetically or naturally for that matter, on the specification, it says the scenti solvent residue.

So solvent is things that is a, is a liquid that dissolves solids, simple as that.

And often as not, with synthetic ingredients or supplements, they use synthetic solvents.

And that can be toluene, xylene, dmso, all sorts of chemical petrochemical agents.

And they should have to, by law specify that on the label and the percentage level that it's in, in the finished product.

And I can guarantee that nobody does that.

And so you should be asking, is it natural or is it synthetic?

They should be able to tell you what's a solvent and what's the solvent residue in this.

And I can guarantee they'll go very quiet because they won't know.

So those are sort of things that I think are relevant for people to know when they're making informed choices about what they're, what they're taking in their body.

Because often you're taking it every day and it has an impact.

Yeah, absolutely.

And thank you for sharing that.

I mean, because, I mean, I didn't know that if I'm honest.

And yeah, I think we, we do need these, this information.

Like you say, if we don't ask the questions, we don't.

And just going back to progesterone, I have so many women who come to me and go, but I'm on progesterone pill, or I'm on the, I've got the marina coil.

I'm like, but that's not progesterone, that's progestin.

But the being called progesterone in the doctor's surgery, so if they have a terrible reaction to the synthetic progestin, they believe that they're going to have that same reaction when it comes to taking, you know, body identical.

Tell me a little bit about your.

I can see you've got other products.

It's not just the Safari Sun.

What else?

What else?

Your hero products.

And if someone's listening now, ADHD women who going through different things like perimenopause or anxiety or sleeplessness, so many different things.

What would you recommend from your products?

Quickest, simplest, cheapest, easiest way to, to have a big reset of your nervous system is magnesium.

Yeah.

And, you know, I think it's kind of like it's one of those commonly known kind of supplements.

But again, 99% of magnesium on the market are synthetic so you'll hear magnesium, bis glycinate, you know, all sorts of different salts and often they're made synthetically so make sure that you know what you're taking.

So we use sea water for ours.

So we have a marine magnesium, which is this one here, that the blue green pack and it's mixed with a probiotic because you know when you're mixing prebiotic you're nurturing the gut, that's helping the gut health, which is helping the absorption and then that's going to have a big impact on your nervous system.

So you want to, if you're a little bit hyper, you get you cramping up, your muscles a little bit tight, you're not sleeping because you can't settle, a little bit edgy, then bring magnesium at night is a brilliant one and it's involved in hundreds of processes within biochemical processes when the, in the body, including the hormone balance process.

So it's really important.

It's one of those kind of staples that you should be on every day because you know, I think something like half the population deficient in magnesium.

So because we're not getting it through the soil, the quality of the, the fruit and veg is not what it used to be because the soil has been depleted.

So that's.

That would be my go to the saffron as I said, was a kind of like no brainer.

We have one that's calm.

So if you're waking up feeling agitated then the calm.

If you wake up low energy then it's a saffron energy, different formula.

And we're using a special algae, organic algae from the Hebridean Islands to provide some iodine for the thyroid gland, which is all about energy.

And it's one of those glands that gets affected by the menopause perimenopause.

We have another product which is about cognitive function because obviously that gets affected, called ashpodisiac for women.

And it's got a combination in there, ginkgo biloba, which is brilliant for cerebral circulation if you look at the research data and again if people want to email us because they will show us the information.

The research on ginkgo biloba or saffron or magnesium, then we're happy to email research papers and help you digest those as well because it's not always easy to read a research paper on it is ginkgo.

It's good for memory, isn't it?

And cognition.

Yeah, yeah.

So cerebral circulation is really important.

It's got ashwagandha in it, which is an adaptogen for the nervous system that then gets affected by hormone balance.

Fenugreek, which is, it's so underused because it boosts testosterone and testosterone is one of those hormones that gets forgotten in men.

And it weighs mostly associated with men, but actually from perimenopause, menopause, testosterone is really important.

And fenugreek, this strength again, the strength of the bioactive within each of the components is really important.

So you can have a, have a spice or a food and it might only have 4% of the active component in it, when actually for it to work you'll need 50% or 60%.

So that that percentage figure on the label is really important.

So, you know, check, check what the active ingredient is and make sure that it's listed on the pack as tested for.

Because otherwise it's a bit like taking a little bit of a chip from your aspirin tablet and expecting it to cure your headache.

The same principle of dose response applies whether it's natural or conventional.

So the Ashtrodisiac for women is a brilliant combo product for perimenopause and menopause.

And I think from a cognitive function people get, give us feedback during the first few weeks.

It's the cognitive function is the one that they kind of pick up on that sharpness of thought and memory.

And if they've got their sort of mind back to its old, old state.

We have, have lots of different remedies.

There's one with turmeric, she said for reducing for muscles and joints.

Turmeric's brilliant as an anti inflammatory.

Former cardiovascular point of view.

We have a thing called metabolic gold.

It's got a combination of bergamot fruit.

And the bergamot fruit is a, is a very bitter fruit from southern Italy and it binds to fat in and around the liver and in the gut.

So if you're looking, you've got a cholesterol issue or, or you've got this sort of high band of belly fat that you want to try and shift, then the metabolic goal is the one.

Yeah.

So we are always looking for areas where people need some help and where we can make the biggest influence and a fast result really.

People are looking for a quick response.

But my, my personal favorite has always been the Safrasun because that's, that's how we started.

That's your baby.

So my question is, can they be taken in unison?

Have you created them?

So sort of they're symbiotic together and in case everyone's going, I need all of them.

And they.

And they can just rattle around like I do.

Yeah, yeah.

So they're definitely designed not to overlap.

And because we don't, our main goal is to use botanics and spices and food extracts.

So I'm more interested.

Yes, we'll have one or two vitamins and they will always come from a food source.

B12 in saffron comes from an algae source, the vitamin D, you know, similar natural source rather than it being synthetic.

But generally the main ingredients are botanical food or spice.

And they're designed a.

To be work, to be taken alongside a conventional medication just fine.

So the safer sun perfectly safe to take alongside prescription meds.

And they're designed not to overlap.

So.

And that's important because one of the things I do see is that is the overlap of Maltese.

So you might be taking a multi with some like 30 ingredients.

And when I say multi, it's not just a food supplement, it might be a protein drink.

You look on the supermarket shelves, lots of protein drinks and a long list, long, long list of ingredients.

And.

And we know with ADHD neurodiversity that actually copper can be an issue.

And equally, if you're having too much zinc can be an issue in terms of.

Then starts to reverse the benefits, I think is really good for adhd, by the way.

But if you, if you're taking a multi and then suddenly taking another product that's also got zinc in and you don't think that this protein shake has also got zinc in, then once it's over the threshold level for safety, it can then have a reverse effect on the nervous system.

Right.

So that's why actually check what you've got on the label and make sure there's no overlap and you're not doubling up on certain vitamins.

I think people assume because they've heard it from an influence or whatever that this is correct, this is safe, this is effective, but actually when you start drilling down to it, maybe even start with one at a time and mark zero, ten.

What's your symptom?

Zero to ten and it's a ten.

And week two is a seven, week three, it's a six or five.

If it stays a ten, you know, it's not working.

So actually change to something that that does work, Try something else.

I think the experimentation is good, but build in something a bit more quantitative, something where you are actually assessing what the improvements.

Otherwise you're just taking it like a shotgun approach of taking all these supplements and, you know, hoping that they're going to work and not knowing what's working and what's not.

Yeah, no, I agree with you and I'm, I'm doing a brain health coaching qualification with Dr. Daniel Amen, who is a brain health specialist and he, he's amazing and he is working with thousands of brain health scams and we are starting to recognize like the personalization aspect of, you know, integrative health.

Health now is so, so important and understanding which parts of our brain need that extra support.

You know, even just with adhd, there can be different parts of our brain that is running that part of our adhd, like if it, whether it's the limbic system or the prefrontal cortex.

And I'm sure there's supplements that help those different parts of the brain and help sort of fire them up or slow or lessen them down or, and I think that's where we need to get to.

And we've seen it with, with medication that, so much trial and error and you know, people have tried four or five different types of medication because they've not had a brain health, they've not had a brain scan, we can't really do blood tests and to get to a point where like, well, the medication's not working back to square one or they've tried different supplements and actually that's not really worked for them.

Now where do I go?

It's just this minefield and people kind of feel a bit despondent because there's no personalization there.

And obviously personalization involves money and it involves privilege and it involves a lot of time.

And I mean, I wonder, as someone who's been pioneering this field and who clearly has a very innovative eye, do you think we're going to be going down this more personalization route?

And how, how can we fund it because there's a thirst there for it.

I think we will, I think we'll get a lot smarter with it.

I don't think you need necessarily to get into a really expensive route.

I think that's entirely up to you in terms of how much you invest in your own health.

And there are ways of picking off the big low hanging fruit without necessarily spending a huge amount of money.

I think part of the problem is people are trying to cover too many areas.

Pick off, be quite logical and systematic about the way you're treating your health and pick off the main symptoms that you're trying to influence.

So then find the targeted supplement for that area.

Best supplier.

You know, make sure you educate yourself on it and try and find the lifestyle elements that you also come in to support that and try and get on top of your symptoms consistently.

I think consistency is really key.

So, you know, don't just take it for three days and then have a three day break.

So get your supplements in, your magnesium or your Safarison or your Ashgesiac, whatever you're taking, get it into your daily routine so that you're not missing doses.

And I say, people ask me a lot is that, you know, I'm on an antidepressant and I'm taking Safrason.

Is there a possibility I can reduce my dose or stop?

We always advise them not to stop suddenly because that can have a really negative effect and it can be quite dangerous in certain circumstances.

But if you can take a supplement to the point where you're on top of your symptoms for six weeks, then you're in a stable place to go back to GP and say, I want to come down from 40 to 20 and see how that goes.

But coming off a drug generally is not suddenly, is never a good idea.

But I think, to answer your question, I think it's possible to do this in a very cheap, effective way, but in a very focused, targeted way.

So Marine magnesium is a really cheap, effective supplement and it will cover quite a big chunk of symptoms and then pick up the next one.

And you know, we'll often advise based on a budget as well.

We don't want to create stress in people in terms of their finances, but there's often a simple lifestyle change that they can make that actually do you realize you're drinking this in the morning but it's full of sugar or it's full of alternative ingredients, so why not try to do something else, you know, a different approach.

Or they may be having one of these protein shakes, it's full of maltodextrin.

Maltodextrin is a sugar.

People don't recognize the name, so.

So it is possible to do it simply and cheaply.

But also I think the integration of our tech wearable hot rate variability, the impact and the monitoring of that I think is going to get a lot, lot smarter and I think we're going to get much more individual on that basis.

And yeah, that love it or hate it, AI is here.

And actually if we use it positively, it'll be amazing from a health perspective because it will be able to pick up there might be eye scans, there might be skin scans, there might be facial scans that will then generate an interpretation and link to your data that if you're Wearing a, you know, a tracker or whatever, it'll say, well, actually, you need to increase your aero exercise every day, you know, walking very least, you know, for another 10 minutes.

And that's going to have an impact on your blood pressure or whatever it is.

So I think we are definitely going that route.

And the.

I think the more we take on responsibility for our own health and empower ourselves, so actually we're in charge here.

We have the power to make a change.

And when I was in the middle, I don't know how you felt, but when I was in the middle of my acute symptoms, well, it, you know, my third year at uni, I felt out of control.

I felt it was controlling me.

I didn't feel as if I had the power to make a change or to make a difference that getting back.

It felt like it was, you know, I was being controlled.

And I hardly went to Dr. To talk about it, whatever.

I didn't feel as if I had many options, whereas now I realize that's not true.

And I think there are so many things available to us now that we didn't have even 10 years ago.

So we're lucky in that realm.

I think the problem is we almost have too many things and trying to navigate that in a meaningful way, I think is really challenging.

And yeah.

So, you know, I think for me, that's what we're here to do, is try and help people empower themselves to make their own choices.

That is right for you, right for their budget, right for their lifestyle.

Because, you know, not if you're a busy mum of four, like, like you are.

I mean, you know, don't have a huge amount of time in your day to kind of like, you know, go off and do cryo chamber or whatever it is.

Sadly not.

No, no.

Right now you might welcome that.

So.

Yeah.

Well, I just want to thank you for this, Kevin, because it's been really, really fascinating.

And can you direct people to.

I guess if they do want to have that conversation with one of your pharmacists, go and have a look at your products.

Where should they go?

TheNaked Pharmacy.com, obviously, the contact page.

There's telephone number there, telephone numbers, if they want to email, it's pharmacisthenakedpharmacy.com you can also add the Naked Pharmacy.

We're on Instagram, on Facebook.

You can contact us through the social channels on there and we're happy to help.

And if you want to book an appointment, there's an appointment booking system online.

The naked pharmacy.com Brilliant.

Kevin, thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and your wisdom and look forward to seeing what the Naked Pharmacy does next.

Thank you very much.

And thank you to you as well because I've been tuning in to your episodes and learning a lot along the way.

So thank you for your information and advice and knowledge.

Thank you.

Kevin, if this episode has been helpful for you and you're looking for more tools and more guidance, my brand new book, the ADHD Women's Wellbeing Toolkit is out now.

You can find it wherever you buy your books from.

You can also check out the audiobook if you do prefer to listen to me.

I have narrated it all myself.

Thank you so much for being here and I will see you for the next episode.