People are like, oh, you must have so much money. It's like, no, I have maybe cryptos,

but I got nothing. Yeah. I'm in a privileged position, but I'm really cash

I'm not a materialistic person at all. Because every day I'm like, how can

I get more Bitcoin? Young people should consider buying Bitcoin as

a savings tool. So you can hold onto the Bitcoin, borrow against it,

If you have it all on one exchange and one exchange gets hacked, life's ruined,

right? So what I do is I split it across multiple exchanges and

money loves speed. You got to be really fast. I'm going to like what I

This is going to be so controversial. I'm Matthew Fraser and this is

Crypto Collective. After making millions with Amazon and e-commerce,

I realized that if I was starting again today, crypto would

be my first choice. I'm here to help you take your first

steps and build real wealth. Ready to set yourself up

for life? Let's go. Hey, guys, welcome to the Crypto Collective.

My name is Matthew Fraser. And today in the studio, I've

got none other the man who's taking the internet and

social media by storm. And that's Harley Crypto Hoddle.

Hey, man, what's happening? Hey, how's it going? Yeah, five cryptos. You're

going to give everything away today, I know. But I want to dive into your

life, how you got into this space, your background, some of

the things that you, how big you've become on social media in

really quite a short amount of time. And also, maybe you want to

give some tips on some cryptos. I think it's going to be a great conversation.

Well, I come here quite often actually. I'm a regular now.

Okay. But we booked this trip a long time

ago in advance. So it happened to be, we just happened to be here

for a long weekend and we're going to the football as well to watch the

Yeah, awesome. Now, I want to jump into how did

you become so big on social media so

Yeah, well, to be honest, for a long time, I used to

watch TikTok and all that sort of stuff. But I always thought it was for people who

danced and then my nephews were like, you need to go on TikTok and

start talking about crypto. I'm like, really? Who's gonna watch that?

some guy sitting there talking about finance and crypto. Most

people on TikTok are like dancing. And they're like, no, it's not

like that. The people talk about everything. I was like, all right,

well, let's make a video. And one day I just made a video and

it did quite well. So I just kept making videos from there. But it's

interesting because this is actually my third account. So I've

This is in the crypto space. So each time I've started again and

Did you say something that was... Well, TikTok is

quite random. I can't remember why the first time I got banned some, you

know, some BS. The second time was even worse. Apparently I

was naked selling guns. And I can tell

you, I wasn't selling, well, they said I was selling firearm weapons,

not guns. So yeah, but I wasn't, as

you can imagine, I definitely wasn't. But yeah, and I

just, for some reason I appealed it and it came back as rejected. Yeah,

so no one, I don't think anyone actually sits there and watches when you appeal. I

Yeah, like even when you appeal it, it's a bot. But

then I finally got a manager at TikTok. So

someone who actually works at TikTok reached out to me and said, you know,

you're one of our biggest growing creators. We

want to represent you and look after you, all that sort of stuff. So they stopped me

from being banned for a long time because every time I was being banned, because otherwise

I would have been banned like 20,000 times, I would reach out to

sort it out for me. Okay and this is something that you can get like I

guess once you've reached a certain threshold within the TikTok space.

Well now I think it's sitting at it fluctuates now it's I think 138,000. Oh no

kidding you're in the six digit range. Oh,

Yeah. So yeah, that's 138. And then Instagram's another

Basically, yeah. Yeah. And you know, like, if you said

to me 50,000 many years ago, like 10 years ago, I

would have said, oh, yeah, that's all right. But these days for Instagram, that's

like pretty big. And how long have you been on Instagram? Instagram,

I started at about, maybe six months to a year

ago, I'd say something like that, yeah. Less than a year and you're at 50,000. Yes,

because again, I had a different page before that and I got rid of it, I just,

Wow, that's incredible. Now tell me about your journey into crypto.

I think you just mentioned before off-air that you were in the fitness space

Correct, but that was a very long time ago, the fitness space. That's not how

I got into crypto. In fact, how I got into crypto and

I used to actually be a prop trader. So, yes,

so I used to trade US Treasuries bonds on the futures exchange,

yes, for a company. And so, when

we used to gather, every morning we'd gather at 8am and we'd

look at the market before it opened, what happened the night before

in the US session, what are the Treasuries doing, you know, what's

our strategy, what's, you know, all that sort of stuff. And it was

2016, late 2016, early 2017. And I was

just new to prop trading because again, like I said from before,

I was in fitness and I was a teacher. So I was teaching physical

ed and doing fitness and all that sort of stuff. But I'd always had this passion for

trading. So I started working at this prop trading firm and

it was like, you know, first time. And it

was like gold hits $1,200, Bitcoin hits

$1,000. You know, that was one of the things we were following for a long time. We weren't necessarily allowed

But it used to come on every single morning and then it just piqued

my interest because I was like, what's this? Obviously being a young

bloke, these are the kind of things that pique your interest, you know? Yes, bonds

and that are fun. But, you know... Crypto.

Crypto. And a guy from

fitness background with no money sees Bitcoin, crypto. This

is my shot. I can finally make a dollar here. This

is quite interesting. What is it? Yes, the future. Yes, young.

Yes, getting in early. These things, boom, boom, boom

in my head. So it was percolating in the back of my mind. But

I was putting on this facade like, yes, bonds. Yes, treasuries. But

in my mind, I was like, I need to start getting into this crypto

thing, but I need money to get into this crypto thing. Hmm.

Well you just touched on something Harley then. So, you know, cause a lot of people who get into

crypto, similar, like they're just the average person, right? And

then you have to put money down, right? Correct. So what was,

what did you do? Did you sell a card? Did you just work harder? Do you hustle?

man like if I tell you there was I didn't know anyone poorer than

me honestly like I was like the poorest person I even knew I

had like basically no money like I was from fitness background and

just like it's physical ed teacher barely

getting by I was putting like I

went and downloaded, so what happened was, I was like, how much

money can I afford to put in? I was like putting a few hundred here and there.

I went and downloaded this, I actually downloaded Coinbase and

this, and Jack's wallet. That were the only things around back then. This was 2016. Actually,

I think I didn't actually make the plunge till 2017. I

couldn't afford Bitcoin, obviously. So I looked, what else was there? At

the time, there were only three coins that were publicly available

for like the everyday people like myself. It

was Bitcoin, it was actually four coins, sorry. Bitcoin,

Litecoin, Ethereum and XRP. I

was like, what should I buy? So I bought, funnily enough, I

didn't buy XRP. I bought Ethereum and I bought Litecoin. It

was only a few hundred dollars that I put in. And

I was just like, every week from my shitty little income,

I'm just gonna put like 50 bucks. And that's what I did, because

And so you're putting in this $50 every week. Yes. What was

the moment where you sort of looked at your portfolio and went, oh

Look, I'm going to be honest, because a lot of people think, oh, I'm just going to go into crypto with

my $50 and my $5 and become a billionaire tomorrow. That's not

how it works, as you can imagine. You actually need to put in quite a bit of money if

you want to make money. And I'm being honest here. I'm telling the truth. I mean, I could

lie and say, no, it's all right. You could do with a few hundred. I mean, you could. You

Yes, exactly. I mean, yes, there's always exceptions to the

rule. And there might be one person here or some guy who did that. And

now he's all over the news. Now everyone thinks that's what happens. But it's

not true. You need to actually put in money to make

money. So I wasn't really making much for a long time. It

was like a little bit here and there. But that point you're

asking about was really later in life. It was about a year

on. It was still 2017. But believe it or not, I

happened to be in Las Vegas when that happened. So

No, so this is 2017. I don't think there were any crypto conferences or

anything like that. And no one knew actually I was buying crypto back then.

So no one knew I... I wasn't making much

money, but you know, it was money to me. Someone who'd never seen

Yes. You know, I'd never seen more than like maybe a

thousand dollars in my bank account. I had this history in my

life where I'd had all these experiences and done all these things, but I had never

had money. So... I

made some money, so I was like, you know what? I'm going to go to Los Angeles, because I'd lived in Los

Angeles before. So I was like, I'm going to call my friends up

and say, I'm coming to LA, because I could afford to come to LA now again

and see everyone and live my LA life again. So I was like,

I'm going to go to LA. And as I went to LA and my whole time

in LA, this money kept multiplying and multiplying. But again, you've got to

remember, it wasn't much, because I only started with a few hundred dollars. But

it was a lot to me. It multiplied into the thousands. tens

of thousands, let's just say that. And so I just, you

know, saw this money and was like, Oh my God, Oh my God, I've

Yes. It's so funny. Now I look back at it, but

it was, I mean, it was pretty good money. And I went on the

world's biggest spending spree. Like I was shipping back things home.

Yeah. I'm not going to say what I was shipping back because it became ridiculous.

So you're making money, and then you're cashing out.

Leaving lots in the market, thinking, I'm going to leave this, this is going

Some of the profits to fund my lifestyle at

the time, because I was living it up in Las Vegas

and in Los Angeles. I traveled to Michigan because

I had family in Michigan, and I was just living it up, buying everything that

was coming across my path. I bought so many jerseys. Actually,

in fact, it's so funny. When I came back to Australia, I got stopped at Customs,

and they said, wow, this stuff is very expensive. How did you have the money to

buy it? I was like, well, I work. I'm a teacher.

Well, they can't comment on that sort of stuff. But I, you know,

didn't say much because they looked at all these NBA jerseys, like

all these really unique ones. And, you know, I had watches and

I actually got, you know, they took my cigars away.

I had a lot of cigars. I got caught with cigars. And

they were just like, what the hell is all this stuff and all these shoes? I mean, I

Yes, truckload of stuff, spent my money in Vegas. But

looking back now, I wish I'd cashed it all out. Because eventually, I'd

learn a huge lesson. And it all went to shit again. And I

That's so interesting. I spoke to a really intelligent woman the

other day called Sadelle Sierra. And she said exactly the

same thing. She said, in hindsight, one of her upon reflection was to

But she got to the point, because I asked her the same question, what did it

get to? She's like, at one point, I was looking at my portfolio.

It was at $20 million. Oh, well, I wasn't angry either. She

did really well. And she lives up on the Gold Coast here. And she

did cash out and bought an Aston Martin. Oh, OK. So she

did really well. And yeah, so it's interesting that you've

got the same. Upon reflection, I should have cashed out more.

Cash them on at the time I was feeling so guilty every

time I was cashing out You know thousands to buy shit.

I was like no, what are you doing? You've been poor your whole life. You need to

keep this in the market and let it multiply You need to really change

your life change your family's life You can't be spending in Vegas like

an idiot at all though. I went to all the factory outlets Yeah

Yes, but I was feeling so guilty. But

in hindsight, it was probably the best thing I did. Otherwise, all of

it would have gone to zero, right? I would have been left with nothing, I

What's interesting though, all those coins that you originally bought, they're still

around. Some of them are, yeah. The

ones you mentioned at the very beginning? Yes, they are. Okay, upon reflection

now, because I think this is where your insight is going to be really valuable, Harley. Looking

back now, you took out all this money, you're spending it

on just like, let's just call it, it was rubbish really, clothes and what is that and

the other, yeah? But what would you do differently now? Like if

that's the case now, are you taking some of that profit out and

putting it into real estate, I

It's a tricky and touchy subject just because, you

know, you've, how do I say this? You've

got to be careful about what you do with it because of the tax man, you know.

So you've got to be quite careful of what you do with it. I don't necessarily pull

it out, no. So I've got like multiple, this is my strategy.

So I'll have multiple wallets. And I'll be on multiple

exchanges. And the reason is because I've been in crypto now

long enough to know exchanges go bust, exchanges go down. If

you have it all on one exchange, and one exchange gets hacked,

your life's ruined, right? All your money's gone, everything, all your crypto's

gone, your investments are gone. So what I do is I split it across multiple

exchanges. And people say, oh, that's just silly. Put it

on a USB. Or you mean a

cold wallet? Cold wallet, all these things. Look, that's fine if

that's your strategy, but that's not mine. And is that because you're trading? I'm

swing trading. So I wouldn't say trading. So it's a little bit different. I

Yes. So swing trading is kind of like longer term trading. So like there

might be a narrative for six months, which is like AI. So you buy

all the AI coins. It fizzles out. you

kind of just move into maybe stables, or you move into Bitcoin

and just hold until the next narrative comes. And now it's real world assets.

Okay, now I'm going to pick the best real world asset

tokens and move into those. And that will maybe run for

six months or a year or something, or even two months, who knows, as

long as that narrative runs. And that's swing trading. Now, if my cryptos

are on a cold wallet, I can't do that. I'm boom and

bust. Well, I mean, you can, I mean, you can get your cold

wallet out and put it back in and then start doing things. But you

got to be quick in crypto. Yeah. And money loves speed. You

got to be really fast. It's really quick. You know, one day, it's

all about this. And the next day, it's all about that. And it doesn't wait

for you. It's not like, let's just wait for crypto HODL to get his money

on this exchange. And by the time you've even made that decision, You're

going to probably make the wrong decision because you're going to be thinking about 20 different

things. So that's my strategy, multiple

And that's more of a protection strategy, though, as you mentioned before about certain exchanges

could go down. So you're trying to protect your assets,

Yes. What's your strategy then of when the, hopefully,

Well, that is that, too. Because the ones I don't

So they're in wallets. I'll put them in wallets. So this is my selling wallet.

This is my accumulation wallet. This is my jeet

wallet. I have a jeet. Well, I have a wallet for everything. A jeep. A jeet

wallet. What is that? So this is my wallet to trade

like a degenerate. Buy meme coins, take ultra

Yes. So I will move money into there from one of

my other wallets, not my savings wallet and not

my pulling out wallet, but my somewhere in

between wallet where I accumulate from. So the

wallet that I accumulate from, I will move That's the

wallet, that's like the base wallet. From there, everything goes in

different places. This goes to the exchange, that

goes to savings, this is going to my selling wallet, this is going to

my Jeep wallet. So you have like a central wallet. There's

not much in it because you're constantly moving it out of

there into different wallets to do different things. That's

my strategy for that. That's so far worked for me the best, because I've had multiple strategies

before, and I've ridden things from hero

So let me bring you back to this, because you mentioned about pulling money out. You wish

OK. So is your plan then to eventually, let's

say we talk this bull cycle, right? It's going to get to either a point

where you pull it all out, or maybe you scale it out as it goes up?

Scale out, correct. But I am not selling at

the moment. Where I'm at now, no. OK. Because

I would never sell right before a bull market. That's just ridiculous. Now's the

You've had this. But at some point, in your mind,

you'll know, OK. And do you have it based on, I don't

know, like an RSI? Or is it when

the greed and fear index gets to complete greed?

Yes, sort of. Yes. Some metrics there. Or is it? Hey,

you know what? I actually would like to buy my own house. I don't even know if you own

a house. Yes, that too. Yes. So you're currently renting, would

you say? Yes. And so your goal is to buy a house, right? Yes. And

a lot of people are going to resonate with this, right? Particularly people your age

who are trying to get into the property market. And this is something I just, I'd love to touch on.

Yeah. So you're going to get to a point where you're going to say either

A, I've got enough for a deposit, let's say. 200, 300 grand

that you can just pull out of the market. Or you

get to a point where you've got enough, let's say crypto does exceptionally well,

you've got enough to buy a house outright. Yes.

It is. And it's a never ending battle. It's a huge decision

because I'm like, yes, like I said, I mean, I said I'm not selling now,

but which is kind of like I am selling a bit now, but I'm

in a very privileged position to be able to sell a bit all

the time here and there only because and My

personal opinion, not financial advice. only because I'm

savvy at this stuff. But if I wasn't savvy at this stuff, I wouldn't be doing that.

And so I'm scaling up because also one of the reasons why

I'm doing that too is because, I mean, I kind

of still live like a poor person to be honest. And that's because I'm,

well, I don't wanna say I'm crypto rich. I don't even wanna say I'm rich

because I don't know what that means anymore anyway. Correct. There's lots

of different levels. But I'm in a privileged position, but I'm really cash

poor. Like, because people are like, oh, you

must have so much money. It's like, no. I have maybe cryptos, but

I got nothing. Yeah. Yeah. So I've started cashing

out, because I'm like, I don't want to be an idiot who's just like made all

So are you cashing out bits? Yes. Because there's some people that live on the,

or like, in my world, I guess, I sort of focus on Bitcoin more

than altcoins. I do have altcoins, but it's heavily Bitcoin. And

there's people that live on the Bitcoin standard, they call it, right? Where they have everything

is in Bitcoin and then every month they just they sell a

little bit enough to pay for the bills. So they sell it,

convert it into fiat currency and then live on those bills, right? Sorry,

live off that money, okay? So that's one strategy. The

other strategy would be Hold all your Bitcoin,

let's say, and have a job. So that now

Is that your strategy? That's my strategy. And people always ask me, why do you work? Why

do you have a job? Like some of my friends always say, oh, you're such an idiot. Why do you work?

Some of them are. Some of them are bums, right? OK. Everyone's from a different.

Yes. I don't like to judge people. But when you're giving advice, I'm going to judge you. Yeah.

So yeah. And I'm like, you're the idiot. So

I'm working because of exactly what you just said. It allows me to hold

my crypto and get the benefits of crypto. And plus, I

mean, without tooting my own horn, I'm a pretty skilled person.

Yes, exactly. Yeah. Because I work in, you know, quite professional services.

So yeah, that's why. And I'm like, and I have this time. I

mean, I'm not just sitting on my computer doing crypto 24-7. I mean, if I

was a prop trader, yes, I was. That's what it was like.

You just have to literally stare at your computer. And

we'll come back to that in a second actually people who follow crypto traders

Who put on the trade go to the beach all day then come back? That's bullshit because

I work for a professional firm and that is not what you do But

Yeah, Holly So you're working in the trading industry

Yeah. Yeah Okay, so and even if I wasn't I

can teach and not only that I was a great teacher I

can write Actually, I do do this sometimes for a

lot of education departments. I write the curriculum for what people

Yes, so I did a degree and then I got my teaching diploma and then

I went on to get my Masters of Finance and Financial Technology. Yes,

and I'm actually enrolled again now in something else but I'm

Stop it. The layers just keep peeling back. He's

No, not at all. I

mean, I like to stay busy and also my

mind races all the time. I'm constantly thinking and analyzing. Maybe

that's why I like crypto. It moves fast, just like my brain. So

I need constant stimulation. I need more and more and more. And

yeah, I just love creating new firing patterns in

my neurons. So I constantly love

doing things and I'm sure after my Juris Doctor, there'll be something

This is probably why so many people follow you because you

know, you bring such a unique perspective to the landscape.

Oh well, I hope so, thank you. It's not like me, I don't have anything that you've

got, you've got all these amazing credentials. I did high school, that was

That's amazing. I mean, everyone has their own journey though. You're pretty successful.

I mean, everyone does their own thing. But, you know, the way

is to just own whatever you do. So that's, I think, why you're so

You did what you had to do. You owned it. I'm sort of, you

know, do you have Hextet? I have no idea how much it is, but

yes, I do. This is another problem, right? This is another problem. So you get all this debt

you've got to maintain, and you know, hence why we hope crypto does well

to get rid of all that. So that's fascinating. So

back to the plan maybe is to pull out enough money

to buy into property. Correct. Yeah, and is that because... You

like the idea, because there's two trains of thoughts here. You either like the idea of

Yeah, and the other side is... What's the

Well, I think I know where you're going. So look, I'm not a materialistic person at

all. I'm the least materialistic person, so I'd never

just buy houses for the sake of it and just be like, look at me and my big

mansion, I'm so cool. That does

not appeal to me whatsoever. I know I spoke about money before and how I went

to Vegas and just started buying shit, but that's because I was really poor. I'd never seen money

in my life. And you were also much younger. And I was much younger. And to

be honest, 90% of everything I bought were gifts for other people

and my family. It wasn't good for myself because I don't really care. Everyone

loves nice things and I love nice things, but I don't really care about

It is to have my own castle and make it my own

It's not so much... Above that Harley, right? Is it, hey,

Yeah, it's a good question. I don't think it's financial freedom. No, I think it's

to keep building because like I said to you, even though I mean, I mean,

I do have money now. But like I said to you, I still kind of live like, I don't

like I'm a poor person. I'm still like a family man. I

still just rant and live day-to-day and all these things

and I, like I said to you now, I'm back at the university trying to

get HDs in my Juris Doctorate, like they're the things that I value.

So I'm too busy to be worried about materialistic ideals.

So it's not really materialistic. I

think it's more just building other things. I think if I had like unlimited,

like an unlimited money tree, I would constantly be building

things. So now it's a TikTok channel. It might be,

I'm going to, you know, build a

DeFi exchange, build a new YouTube channel

that talks about the law or talks about finance or

talks about something or whatever. It will be something, but

it's to constantly build and have

my own castle and make it my own and live in my own space

There was a guy who, I heard his story the other day and he

had Bitcoin and he had Bitcoin since, you know, like 2014, right? He's

had a lot of Bitcoin. And he said his biggest mistake actually

was he sold a lot of his Bitcoin somewhere

during this last decade and bought a house, right?

Because he was like, oh, you know, I just wanna just have this

house, it's done then, security, okay? And,

but now he's like, but upon reflection, you know, I think

he sold, there's like 750,000, oh, sorry, 750 Bitcoin. that

he got rid of at the time to get the house when it was

when Bitcoin was worth like maybe 50 bucks or something, right? And

now he's like, I probably should have

held that. And I think everyone's going to go through that

Exactly, that I'm going through right now where I was like, should I just pull

Or do I just stay renting? I think what you're saying though about

living poor, so to speak, is so great.

And I was having this with Sadelle as well. Like, she's a multi-multi-millionaire. And

she's like, I'm just trying to live like frugally. I just want to

put as much money as I can into crypto. And she

does crypto, not just Bitcoin. Hey, just quickly, if you're ready to dive

deeper into crypto and Bitcoin and build real wealth, join

my free crypto collective community. It's where I share

exclusive insights and strategies and live discussions to

help you succeed, whether you're a beginner or scaling your

portfolio. Click on the link in the description and join us today. Now,

back to the episode. I'll tell you something interesting too. I'm just

selling stuff around the house. Because everyday I'm like, how can I

get more Bitcoin? And so the other day, I had this like exercise

bike. I'm like, I don't even use exercise bike. Can

Isn't that fun in a way, in some weird way? That you

sell something on marketplace and then you get that money and you can buy Bitcoin, like

it's that process that's fun. Yes, it's

And it was like something I wasn't even using. Yeah, whatever it was.

And so like I sold this exercise bike for like two and a half thousand dollars. And

Exactly. And that's what I was going back to with my friend, like, why do you work? And I'm like,

it's exciting. It's like I did another job. Actually, I was tutoring someone recently.

and my friends straight away, how much are you getting paid? And I'm like, whoa. I mean, normal

people, that's all they care about, right? It's quite frustrating sometimes.

Like, number one, I don't care how much I'm getting paid. I'm

enjoying this, and I'm helping someone. And it's just part of my skills as

well. And I'm building my skills. And it's part of the

process that I enjoy, too. It's like, hmm, once I get this money, money

that I didn't really need, but it just came to me anyway because I tutored someone, I get

to decide whatever I do with it. I could do anything with it. And that's

exciting to me. I love the process. okay, what am I gonna do?

I could buy more Solana. I could buy more, accumulate more

ondo. I can go to the Gold Coast with this money

if I want to, something I didn't really think about. I could save

it toward my house, whatever. But it's the process that

excites me. And it's the never ending building and helping other

people that excites me, to be honest. And I know that sounds Cheesy, I

But I really do. I think you like, I mean, I like to share my

insights, my skills, hence I have this podcast. I have

multiple social media channels, and I talk about things that I'm passionate

about, which all relates to, for me, is about financial

freedom for people. Because I've had a rough

financial upbringing in most of my years, right?

Similar to myself, yeah. Not so much when I was a kid, but in

my- Like a young adult? In my 30s, actually.

Yeah, so in my 20s I did pretty well. I had multiple homes, multiple

houses in my 20s. Now, these days, it seems like

a big deal. It's like, whoa! Back then, I was like, yeah, but

I just read some books. I just read the internet, basically.

I was buying Tony Robbins on friggin' DVD or CD, right?

Delivered to the house. Okay, so this is back in those days is like 2000. Okay. And

by the time I was 25, I had four

houses for properties in around Brisbane. And it wasn't, it

was for the pure sake that I was like, I

want to get financially free. And at the time, it was real

estate. Real estate was the thing. Yeah. Yeah, now I've

done a complete backflip where I've actually just started selling real

estate, like commercial real estate that I own, to put it into Bitcoin.

Into crypto. So you're doing the opposite of me. I'm going up. But I

So I would say, look, my castle is done. Yeah,

you're wanting to get to your castle. So I understand that desire. Yes.

And you know what? Even if it's like, I spoke to a friend the

other day, and my house is multi-millions.

And I said, yeah, but if, if, and I'm always striving for the

And I said, yeah, but if someone just said to me, this is it for you, this

house is it. No problem. Right. And I said, but the

last house I was in, which was, you know, um, sort

of quarter of the value, right. In, in more of a suburban area.

Um, I would have been totally fine there too. Yeah,

because I think it's about how you feel inside as a person,

I mean, yeah, we all have a bit of

I've got nice cars and things like that. I don't need those cars. There's

basically $400,000 worth of cars. Like that

It's a nice Mercedes. Yes. Do I need it? No. It was

just one of those ones that when I was financially struggling, I

was on my, it was on my wall, right? Which was like, hey, this

is my, I want to get one of these one day. So it drove me to

that. Yeah, right. A Porsche was a good example. Another

example, like a Rolex. I always want a Rolex watch for some reason, right?

Now, I don't have a Rolex watch. I have a Tudor watch. If

it makes you feel better, I don't even like Rolex watches. They don't even look nice. The point

is, though, Harley, I got to the position, and this is

before crypto. This was actually during my online sales and

things like that. And I was like, you

know, I'm getting that fucking Rolex, right? I deserve it.

Yes. And I put the call in. I spoke to a mate who could get one

and da, da, da. And then he came back to me about a week later

and said, oh, I can't get that watch for you from XYZ dealer. And,

but by then though, I'd already psychologically pulled the trigger. So in

my mind, I'd already owned it. Yeah. Right. And now it's like, oh, I

don't really want it anymore. So therefore I didn't get it because

You'd already owned it. I got through the challenge of psychologically

getting it. That's what I was saying before. It's the process that

is exciting. Cause like, like going back to that tutoring thing, when I

actually did get paid and then whatever transferred the

money, whatever from tutoring, which is nothing, but it's just the principle

I'm talking about here. I was no longer excited. I was

like, Oh, yeah, that was all right. But you know, but before I was

like, Oh, how can I be creative with this? And all that sort

of stuff? I'm it's not quite the same as the Rolex. But yes, it's the

process that's exciting. It's but most people are

attached to the outcome. I feel like even

I was most people at a long time before and I feel like as long as you're attached to

Well, you're never gonna make it Yes, right because even

if you relate that into the crypto space could be anything, right? Whether

it's learning how to sell Amazon on Amazon or Shopify or whatever, which

is what I still do actually But

if you if you don't like the journey and the process of doing it,

you'll get bored very quickly Yeah, if you like personal training, right

correct if you didn't like personal training, you'd probably quit pretty quickly

You've got to enjoy the process. It's so funny though you say that

because one of the things I don't necessarily enjoy is

I have thought about that before as well but because I'm all

over the place, because I work and I do this and I do that and

all that sort of stuff, I I haven't gotten

a team yet, but I'm like, once I settle, which I never seem to settle

in my life, because I'm constantly doing things and ending up in different places.

I was like, I will get a team. But I feel like that's what's stopped me.

Because I know we talk about, oh, yeah, I've got 138,000. But

I could have easily had, I think, a million followers had I

Harley, I think whatever you're doing in the social media space,

team or no team, right, is obviously working. So

it might be just the way you edit it, you just have like a gift of

just the way you structure the video, whatever the messaging is,

the thumbnail, the title, whatever it is, and that just

works. And maybe if you hadn't gone to a team, they put

all their ideas into it, and maybe it might not have

You are right. I did because I did toy with this idea about and my old

page actually before I got banned and I hired a

professional and we made professional videos and they didn't do well.

And so I quickly killed off that idea because I moved quite fast. So

I straight away, it's not working. I can tell it's not working. And

so I killed off that idea. And that's why I never really

Reattempted it because I tried it before and it didn't work. Okay,

Yeah now I want to just Turn the conversation somewhere differently I'm

very much into I mentioned before about people

doing well like through a financial freedom right and most people want

that and Not only is it very difficult right now as you

mentioned before about getting into the property market like that's like obviously we're having

the Election right now. It's the hot topic. Everyone's talking about

young people getting the properties and they can't do it and everything and But I

think there's a couple of things. One is young

people should consider buying Bitcoin as a

savings tool, okay? To build up for

a, let's say even a deposit on a property. Now,

I used to also be in the property market. I was still in the property market but I used to be a mortgage

broker when I was in my 20s, right? So I used to help people structure

their finances and tell them how to get into it and what have you, right? And so

I think the best way right now is actually to, rather than putting your

savings into a bank, okay, and

taking like 10 years to get a deposit, and of course by

that time, the property's doubled anyway. The alternative is actually

put that same money into Bitcoin. And you'll

notice that over the next, we're going to forecast that Bitcoin is

going to do probably between 20, sorry, 30% to 50% CAGR,

compounding annual growth rate, right? So the money they're going

to have at the end of 10 years compared to not having

it in the bank is going to be far greater. They may

even have enough just to buy the house outright. if

they wanted to do that. My suggestion would be, though, actually, to

not sell the Bitcoin at that point. Let's just say you put $100,000 in.

Let's just, for argument's sake, say it's $10 million now.

I would say, actually, don't sell the Bitcoin and borrow against

the Bitcoin. Because banks, rephrase, financial

institutions in Australia right now, you can already lend against Bitcoin. So

you can hold onto the Bitcoin, borrow against it, buy

the house. See? Just something to throw out there. What

I'm going to be a contrarian. It's like a crypto guy telling people not to buy cryptos.

What the hell? But I would say that I'm

a pretty risk-averse guy, just because I've been very

pro-risk before in my life. And it's never really paid

off, to be honest, I think. Maybe because I've been extremely risky.

And I think maybe just because I've been poor

for a very long time, I would say that that

is very risky. And just, if

you think you're poor now, you can still

get poorer. So I think that is a very

to balance it out, maybe not put all of your money into

Even savings, because the thing is, I know Bitcoin goes up, but houses

go up so fast as well, you will never, it's really hard to

Yes, but in real terms, the price of a house is much bigger. So

like every year, the house price goes up, well, I don't know here, but in Sydney,

it goes up about 200,000 to 300,000. Lately, in the past few years,

it's been going up like 200,000, depending where you want to live. You're

never, in real terms, going to get that in Bitcoin. I know

it multiplies in percentage, but it might not. Whereas

So my opinion is, gosh,

now I'm just being a paradox because I've just said, that's too risky.

But here's a bit more risk. My opinion is, If

I was to do it all over again and I was like, I really need to

get into the housing market and I'm, this is going back to

2018, 2019, Harley is really poor and it's like, What

I'm going to do is I'm going to put half

of my money and spread it across three altcoins.

Because if I think Bitcoin's going to go up, then the altcoins are going to go up.

This is going to be so controversial. Because I'm going to say that

It is. But you're doing it with much less money because your risk reward ratio

is much higher. That's the way you're seeing it. OK. Yes. And when you're

really poor, They're the kind of decisions you have to make. If you are

rich, I would say what you just said, congratulations,

you are so right. I would 100% do that if I was rich

So let's nail this down. Your strategy would be to put, let's

say you can save $1,000 a month. So your strategy would

be put $500 a month into the bank. $500 spread

out across a couple or three cryptos that you

Yes, that's exactly what I would do and I

wouldn't go down too much down the risk curve. But not Bitcoin though, just

to be clear. I'm gonna say it and I know they're so controversial. I

would never buy Bitcoin if I was poor, no. If I was rich, I

It's a store of value. It's not going

to go up. I mean, the law of diminishing returns,

it's impossible that it's going to go up much, much more. It

will go up more in my opinion, but much, much more. You

might get a 2x out of it. You're talking this cycle though.

Yes, but you can always come back later. But for now, you

want to be in it now in this cycle and then you can sell and you can

This is the mistake though I think Harley that some people make is they try and time the

market. That's what you're talking about. You're talking about timing it

as in buying into Bitcoin and maybe selling at

the top and then buying when it comes back down into the bear. Is that what you're talking about?

A little bit, yes. Which is where people get wrecked, because it's

so difficult to time the market bottom and the

top. And so the idea that I would say would be

to buy into Bitcoin and hold it, OK?

I guess you could say like what Michael Saylor does. He buys that, and you're going

to say, well, he's rich. Yeah, but he's buying it at every point,

at the dip, at the top, at the dip, at the top. And so over time, we

can only look at history, right? Yes, yes. So last year, Bitcoin did 120% in

the year. The last five

years has been 50 plus percent annual

average growth rate, right? And 10 years has even been

But in real terms, it has not gone up anywhere near close to a house.

So if you were holding Bitcoin, And you wrote it all the

way down in 2022 to $16,000. And only now is

it back up to $60,000 to $80,000. In that time, houses have shot to

You have to keep buying the Bitcoin, though. That's the trick. So

what I'm talking about is you're buying.

So back to the savings plan. So you're always

putting in, essentially, let's say you're getting $1,000 in

savings a month. You put that $1,000 into Bitcoin every

month. over the next let's say even five to ten years. Okay,

let's say because that's otherwise that's roughly how long it may take you to save up

for a deposit. Yeah. Yes. So that's what I'm saying as opposed

to just putting in $10,000 now and then

see where it sits in two years because then you could be fucked.

Yeah, correct. Now, another thing you have to remember is

when you buy a house, you're basically leveraging. So

yes, you're putting $10,000 but your money is multiplying by

I mean however X you own the bank. So it's

not, that's another thing you have to factor in. So that's a huge opportunity

cost as well. Because if a house goes up 20%, your

deposit was only 2%, you've 10x your money. So

you can't compare apples with oranges. Because you're comparing leverage

Yeah, but we're talking about just getting the deposit. Just

getting into the property, right? So I'm comparing, just to be clear to

the audience, putting the money in the bank. Yeah,

we're getting 0.5% maybe, compared

to putting it into Bitcoin. All of it into Bitcoin, every

single month, for let's say at least the five years. And Harley,

But you remember, you can't compare apples with oranges, so you have

to leverage your $10 or whatever you're putting in by 10x.

Because usually when you're borrowing from a bank, you're only putting

in 10%, and you're getting 10 times more your money. So

So let's say, and the audience is going to

be on on on just waiting on

the edge of their seat now for what this number is going to be. I'm going to say

that Bitcoin is going to be at least 30% compound at least. Yeah,

last year was 120. I'm just saying 30. Okay, for

And how much is your house worth now? Well,

forget about the house. Because otherwise, if you put that same

money into the savings account, you

see, 1%, you're going to have $126,000. Well, actually, they're not too bad

now, the saving percentage. They're like 4% or something. Anyway,

this has made such a great conversation. I would just say to everyone, do

their own research. Harley has a different

view, which is a view to have, yeah, because you're

right. It's not a wrong view. Altcoins

could do better than Bitcoin as far as a

return goes, right? I just wouldn't do

that if I was uneducated, because you've got education behind

But you know what? Now you've got people like me on TikTok, you've got YouTube,

all these things. When I first started, there was no one. There was Crypto Banter,

and there was this other guy who ended up being a scammer. His

name was Alex Saunders. I don't know if you know him, Nuggets News. Well,

he was actually an Australian crypto content creator. One of

the first ones, it was like the biggest. He was taking money off

his followers to join his group or whatever and invest for

them and then leverage trading and he got wrecked. He ended

up getting charged. And I don't know what happened to him, but

yeah, but they were like two people but now there's so much information out

there But I also think before you take these decisions you

have to really understand who you are If you're someone who has

$500 to your name, I suppose buying Bitcoin is

not really going to change your life We've got to be really realistic here So

you got to know who you want, what you actually want. Do you want $5,000? Are you

trying to get $500,000? If you're trying to get $500,000, then your

risk appetite has to grow exponentially. If you're

after five more thousand, sure, go

for Bitcoin, go for Ethereum. If you're after somewhere

in between, so you got to really understand who you are and what your background is and you have to

be really realistic. You cannot make

a decision based on the anecdotes of the 0.1% stories

No, that's right. And you're right in saying, too, it comes back to risk

Right? You might just be someone who's not willing to put money into, let

And Bitcoin, for those who are new to crypto, would be

considered the safest bet. OK? Yes. Hence what

you're saying it may have the least amount

of return compared to some other altcoins. Maybe. It

At the end of the day, though, Bitcoin is still a risk asset, no matter how much

people trying to paint it as a gold. The truth is, you know, when

times are ugly, or difficult, it goes down. When

times are great, and when I say great, maybe not necessarily economically

great, but great in terms of money supply, and low

interest rates, then it will pump, it will go up because

it's still considered a risk asset. And it's actually one of the reasons why

it's actually holding quite strong now, despite or

the drama that's happening in the world is because it's

future pricing in the interest rate cuts and liquidity. So

that tells you it's a really risky asset at the same time. So people

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Before you go, I'm going to

put something to you because I've got some notes here. Now, I

want to know, Harley, because you did this on one of

your recent videos. You said the top five coins

to rebound, which is you're talking about after the recent dip, were

Solana, Chainlink, Sui, ETH, and Aave. And

my question to you is, did they rebound? Or

They probably held the strongest, to be honest with you. So they haven't been

massacred like the others. The whole market hasn't

really rebounded yet, so I can't answer that. But they have held the strongest. But

And I'm going to tell you what it is. And it's actually my favorite coin. And I think

this is going to be the leading coin for the reward asset

tokens moving into this cycle. And that's ONDO.

Yes. So especially now with Mantra being out

of the picture, that's better for ONDO. And

I mean, I don't know how true this is. But you know, there are speculation that

blackrock is Accumulating coin like

on though and those coins you that I mentioned that were

from there I mean there's some rationale behind them why I said them to is because I

don't know if you know Trump has a crypto investing fund

And they've been liberty fine liberty finance and they were the coins that

they were accumulating and they're American coins

and which have all these tax benefits and America imperialism

benefits right now. So that's the reason why I

used my mind to calculate that they would outperform.

That's awesome. Well, folks, there you go. You've heard

it from Harley crypto hodl first, which coins

he thinks are going to be the best ones to invest in for the rebound and

Yeah, because they're pretty risk-averse coins too. So that's another reason.

There you go. I think we're going to have to get Harley back on a future

episode because there's so much to debate. There's clearly a

division between Bitcoin and altcoins. But Harley, I want to thank

you so much. Now, if people want to find you, where can they get a hold of

So on TikTok, this is CryptoHodl. And

on Instagram, on Instagram, it's a different name, isn't

it? Because it was from a previous page I had. I think it's on Instagram.

It is. It's iamcryptohodl. But in any case, I'll leave some links in

the description of this video and thank you so much for joining me and

thank you so much for coming out. Thanks for having me. It's been fun. Thanks for tuning in

to Crypto Collective. If you've enjoyed this episode, the best way to

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