Trish: [00:00:00] My name is Trish Ware and I am obsessed with all things pregnancy and birth and helping you to navigate with the practical and the magical seasons of this journey called motherhood. I'm an all day coffee sippin mama of seven. I've had the amazing privilege of delivering many babies in my 15 plus year career as a labor and delivery nurse and as a mama of seven.

I'm here to help you take the guesswork out of childbirth so you can make the choices that are right for you and your baby. Quick note, this podcast is for educational purposes only and does not replace your medical advice. Check out our full disclaimer at the bottom of the show notes.

Hello everyone. I am super stoked for today's guest. Today's guest is near and dear to my heart [00:01:00] because not only Is she a labor and delivery nurse, but she's also inside of my coaching group because she's obsessed with birth like I am. So today's guest is Colette Wagholiker. Did I say it right? No, I didn't.

You did. You did. Okay. Good. Good. Okay. So she is going to be joining us. And sharing her story, which is so much like my story. So I'm super excited. Say hello, Colette.

Colette: Hi. Hi, Trish. Hi, everyone. Thank you so much for having me on. I've been listening to your podcast for a couple of years now. And when you reached out to me, because I got, I started my little presence on social media when I decided to start my friends, a nurse, and you reached out to me to join

You know, birth workers that wanted to start a business. I fangirled out. I was [00:02:00] like, no way. I was so excited. I do look up to you so much just as a nurse and as an educator and as a businesswoman. You have no idea. So I was so, so excited. I'm so happy to be here. You have no idea.

Trish: I, I love this so much because we obviously talk about pregnancy and birth on this podcast.

But we are all so much more than just mom or wife or nurse. And I love that because that's what's so amazing. And I love. Like, just life right now in general, because we have so many opportunities. But what I really, really love about this conversation today is that you are going to help me solidify to my listeners that I'm not off the chain.

I'm not off my rocker, that the things that I say happen and why I'm obsessed with [00:03:00] educating women. before they put their, I always say before you step foot into your birth room, I'm so glad you're here because you're a sister in crime as a labor nurse and you feel the same way I do. So why don't you just tell everyone how you ended up starting My Friends a Nurse?

Colette: Sure, I would love to. So even in my bachelor program, so this was about seven years ago, I knew that as a nurse and as a woman, And just as a person in society that we needed to do more for our moms. Not only in labor, but postpartum and just support in general, and I started researching this seven years ago, so it wasn't it.

Then I went through nursing school. I got my labor and delivery position. I started working in the field and I got so You know, enthralled with laboring and birthing in the hospital system. And I wanted to get really good at it. [00:04:00] So I learned all the policies and all the protocols and I was by the book and I got really, really good at that job of making sure mom is safe and getting that baby born.

And giving great customer service because the hospitals are very much on top of us about that as well because it is a business at the end of the day. So, you know, I got really good at that and it wasn't until I started travel nursing and I know you travel nurse too. Yeah. So when you start traveling around and you start seeing how other hospitals and nurses do things and with such intensity, it gave me a pause.

I was able to kind of step back and look at the unit, not as like my family. Just what I know, but like, why are they doing these things that are so different from what I learned? And it caused me to start asking why a lot more. Like, wait, why am I doing this? Why was I trained to do it this way and now other nurses are doing it this way and doctors are ordering this [00:05:00] medication?

Or starting an augmentation, which is You know, they come in labor and then they want to give you more medicine to speed it up. But why? So I asked, started asking why so much that it became an overwhelming, it became overwhelmingly obvious that things were not run correctly. And then when I saw how they were treating women, because I had that pause when it came to the.

Autonomy over our bodies as women in birth, and they just robbed us of it so often, the disrespect, the coercion, just the list goes on. And it started becoming very hard to go to work and mind you, you know, we work really long hours and I was working night shifts. So it took a lot for me to get through a shift to leave my family.

To give everything I have to these women to just get such pushback from doctors to follow, fall in [00:06:00] line and do as ordered. And if I pushed back, then my job would be on the line or it was a big conversation. I've had residents crying because of my conversations with them when I'm just asking why.

Yeah, or or just advocating for the patient and I try to do it away from the the room and so it's not in front of them but sometimes it's in front of them because I have to ask the question that no one is asking and it can get defensive and so I started walking into work and this was probably my last real contract and it was about a year ago and I was getting heart palpitations my I It was, they were, my heart was racing.

I was sweating. I felt nauseous and this was just walking into work. And I'm like, what is going on? Why am I feeling like this? Is it, am I not getting enough sleep? And then when I would go into my shift, blow and behold, nurses were talking poorly about patients in the nurse's station. They [00:07:00] were all, you know, cool.

All the patients were on this checklist of needing certain things at a certain time, not individualized. And then I was having another confrontation. I'm like, Oh, this is why, this is why I'm, I'm not, my body is physically responding to the stress of this. The system, right? And I can't even fault any single person.

It's the whole system and mind you, I still work in the hospital. Now I work once a week and I'm not on staff. I'm just in registry, but I'm able to kind of still step away and save my own sanity while still appreciating what we do in the hospital, which is provide a safe care. And that's, I'm kind of quoting that, put my little quotations, safe environment for families to have their baby, right?

Cause I do still believe in interventions. I do too. But not as much as we do provide. [00:08:00] Intervene. Yes. And I just feel like I can't step away from the hospital right now, when I can still make some kind of change in the system by being in it. I don't know how much longer that's going to last as I start developing my friends a nurse and we have levels to this business that I want to get through.

But I am full time now in my friends nurse, just like you. You've been such a motivation for me to just get off my booty and start catching women and families before they get to the hospital. Because I can, we can only do so much at the bedside. I can only say so much. I can only stand up for them so much.

They really have to come prepared. And it's incredible with the amount of, of resources, social media, YouTube, Google. Childbirth educators out there. How many parents are still coming uninformed or they're just getting basics basics and they don't realize this is freaking [00:09:00] birth like you have to go educated.

Please. So I'm just getting in line and joining the army of birth workers out here to shout from the rooftops and try to educate them so that they can have a joyous and safe birth in a hospital or wherever they choose.

Trish: I love that. And for those of you guys listening, what's really important to note is that we're saying before you get to bedside, because like Colette said, no matter how passionate your nurse is and amazing she is, we are, our hands are tied to a huge extent because we have to follow the doctor's orders.

And the only one in the room, Who can really refuse things and accept things is you. So if you're not educated, our hands are tied. Wouldn't you

Colette: agree? Oh, a thousand percent. I we want to keep our jobs and sometimes that means we [00:10:00] cannot go against and we can argue with the doctor. Definitely not in front of you.

I may be arguing with him or her behind. Right? Or just respectfully. This is still our work environment. We need to have some kind of camaraderie and respect for each other. We cannot refuse something for you, even if we know it's It's, it's probably not beneficial or they're not informing you correctly or enough.

So yeah, we can only, we can only stand up for you so much and I, there's so much eye contact going on with my mom sometimes like, yeah, there's little looks. Yeah, this little looks like, like, all wide eyed, like, please just listen, like, ask more questions, ask for time, remember what we just talked about, and then I'll explain more later.

Or, you know what, I, I'll jump in and ask a question, or maybe remind her of something that we had spoke about, but even that is. [00:11:00] A lot of nurses won't do, and that's, and I didn't do it for the first five years, six years. I didn't start doing it until I really started questioning things myself, and sometimes some nurses never do.

They really are passionate about the policies and protocols and their doctors, and they only know what they know. And, and let's be clear, for the most part, most, most of the nurses that I've ever met, And doctors for the most well, not all of them, but want and have your best interests in mind. They, they want you to leave the hospital with your baby healthy and they're going to suggest and recommend anything.

that they feel is in your best interest. They're not, for the most part, I'll say for the most part, especially the nurses, going to just, you know, throw you under the bus or disregard you. But unfortunately, I think over time we have started to, cut corners when it comes [00:12:00] to respecting your preferences or just listening to your voice.

I have these workshops now and I just stress how important our voice is in labor and delivery. And sometimes it's a vocal voice and sometimes it's just our voice that we have communicated with our partner ahead of time or with our team so that they can speak up for us. But we need advocates, we need the right team around us and we cannot go in just relying on having a nurse like me or you, that have done the outside research and that really understand.

Thank you. The nuances behind respecting our moms and a lot of the doctors don't either they're very diagnostic and surgical and, and they're coming from a medical background about that has revolves around just saving you and your baby's life and it almost kind of ends there. So unfortunately, and I do work with many obstetricians that and of course midwives that.[00:13:00]

Can step back and allow you to, to make decisions, share this true shared decision making, and they're so wonderful to work with. But unfortunately, you don't always know if you're your OB or your midwife is going to be that person until it's time to deliver and. You're kind of shooting, shooting in the dark sometimes, so you have to communicate, build the right team around you.

That means your doctors, ask them the right questions and build a relationship in your prenatal period. If you are not speaking and engaging your doctor. And letting them know who you are as a person, what are your values, what do you really care about, what are your preferences and birth, then they're never going to really know you, and then you're not, they're not going to be able to build a trust with you, and then it goes vice versa, you need to ask them, do they have kids, have they had vaginal deliveries themselves, And how do they treat their, how do they work with their [00:14:00] patients?

You know, one out of, how many in the last 10 deliveries, how many were C sections? How do they use episiotomies? What would you do if I had to push for three hours? Would you continue letting me push? No, we're not going to continue. No, no, no, I would never. Okay, so if they're very like, Strict on their parameters or if they're more open ended, you want to know that some people want a doctor that's very like, you know, strict and by the book and they feel very safe that way, more power to them, but you're never going to know unless you have that dialogue and really start getting to know your provider and maybe you can't change your provider after you find that out, but at least you're going to go with some expectations so that you're not completely blindsided or disappointed when it comes to I know it's not a lot right there.

Trish: No, that's okay. I tell my students to start having those conversations early and often because you can tell a lot by how they respond. If they push you, say, Oh, it's too soon to talk about that. No, I [00:15:00] want to hear about it now. You can watch their body language, all of those things. So here's what I want to ask you.

Let's just kind of play out some scenarios. What are your suggestions? Let's say mama is, you know, she's not taken my birth class or done your coaching. She's not had all of that and she finds herself. with a labor nurse who, let's start with the nurse, who isn't listening, who isn't respecting her wishes, who she doesn't feel is advocating her, but is condescending because we both know that happens.

What do you suggest?

Colette: Well, I would suggest, okay, so it, it's depends on how much time do you have? Are you in active labor and the baby's coming and this lady's driving you nuts? Then fire her and get a new one, you know, like this, this isn't working out. This isn't working out your, [00:16:00] you know, your partner is not really helping you.

You have every right to ask for a new nurse. And if you want your partner to go ahead and do that, go for it. But if you just be like, Hey, can I get a charge nurse in here and switch nurses? Because I just don't have a good vibe with her. If you have more time, I would always. I do this myself with my coworkers and my nurses, try to ask, build a conversation, stop everything, ask, hey, are you having a bad day?

Are you okay to care for me right now? Because I'm just feeling a little bit of disconnects between us. Maybe there's, something going on in your life, but I really need you present right now for my birth and I need you to listen to my voice and my and what I'm telling you and look them in the eyes and have that conversation woman to woman because two people coming together that you don't know or even [00:17:00] ones that you do know.

Let's say it's your heart. Thank you. Your best friend is in the room and you wanted her there the whole time. Lo and behold, she is annoying. She is like breathing in your face. She's like making these weird baby sounds. And you're like, girl, you have to learn and practice this before you go into labor.

But learn to Speak up and really have a time out and communicate like girl. What is going on with you right now? I can't handle the breathing or the baby voice. I love you so much, but I need you to just. Like, get it together. I mean, maybe some quiet, what can you do? And then give her some things, like, can you just get me water and maybe just like, if I need this, and if you prepare ahead of time, like a list of things that you need, then that's going to be conversations going to be easier.

But sometimes you can't always kick them out. You're especially your family or you don't feel like you should. But you can have that conversation. You can have a little [00:18:00] team meeting. So it goes with anyone that's at your bedside, your partner, and your nurse as well. You don't necessarily just have to fire her, but get to know her a little bit.

Like, what's your name again? Okay. Listen, Judy. I'm just feeling this weird disconnect. Are you having a good day? Are you ready to be here for me? Because this is what I need. And then you have some expectations set for her. I need you to just be supportive. Have my back. I need you to advocate. And I need you to tell me what you're doing before you do things.

And then of course, I'm a big advocate for the birth plan because we can use that as a communication tool. So you can then grab it. Hey, can we just talk about my birth plan? And if you're not vibing with my plan or you don't feel comfortable with it, then maybe you can have another nurse take over, you know, have them choose and then go over the birth plan with her.

And sometimes I swear. Nurses, we're smart. Okay, for the most part. And we do pride. We do take a lot of pride in our work. If I had someone say that to me, I would check myself [00:19:00] so fast. I'm like, Oh, my God, maybe I am having a bad day. Like, yeah, my, my boyfriend or my husband won't stop texting me. We're in a fight.

And I guess I took it out on you. And I'm so sorry. Like, I'm I want to be here. I want to listen to you. Let's, let's do this. And you don't know how many times I have seen, because I do this with co workers when they're being like kind of nasty, like during shift change. I'm like, are you okay? Can we talk about it first?

Can we take two minutes to just. figure out what's going on with you, and it switch, a light switches. And I think it would happen with nurses too. We want to take care of you and be good. We're type A personalities.

Trish: Yeah, this is exactly what I tell my students as well. It, exact, that number one, if your nurse is, like you said, not vibing with you, they're being condescending, or you just feel in the air that they're not supporting you.

There's, there's, I say the same thing. There's two [00:20:00] ways you can handle it. You, you, if you say how, how you just said, if you say, hey, I just really need to chat with you. Like, I don't feel like we're on the same page and that's fine because we're two different people, but I really need. a nurse who is going to go to the bat for me, who's going to advocate for me, who believes in what I have and the work I've done to create my birth plan.

And if that's not you, that's fine. And I always tell my students, one of two things happen, will happen. One, she'll act like an ass and the right decision and, and don't worry that you're, and I put this in quotes, that you're that patient because the rest of us nurses know her too. And you're going to get the best nurse on the floor because like Colette said, customer service ratings are very important to the hospital and most patients don't speak up.

So if one does, you [00:21:00] don't become the trouble child, you become the queen and we're going to make sure you're happy. The other thing that can happen is that it's like Colette said, we're women, we're moms, we're wives, we're girlfriends, we're daughters, we have real life stuff going on. And unfortunately, I mean, before I got divorced, there were times where I came in so heavy and so much pain inside of me.

And I always prayed and was like, okay, God lift this from me because I want to like be there for her. But there were times it was really heavy and maybe my demeanor was off and I'm a really good nurse and I love my patients. So same for me. If a patient said that to me, I probably would go in the bathroom and cry for a minute, but I would 100 percent be there.

And that's, I think that's what's going to happen most of the time. And then you're going to have, like, she's going to be like, Oh my God, I like, I've not been on my game. She's going to sincerely [00:22:00] apologize. And then you probably will get her information and stay connected for the rest of your life. That is probably, yeah, that's probably what's going to happen.

And so, you know, even the best of nurses. We have light, we have life, like there's life going on, you know, so should they bring it into the floor? No, but we all do. And I'm sure you, whoever's listening, you've brought in your bag day to work before too. So I think that is fantastic advice because it treats your whole situation.

It really does. It really does. And I know Colette and I both have worked with nurses where we're like, Oh God, like, I feel so bad for her patients. So. And if people don't complain, if people don't call them out on bad behavior, it just continues for the rest of the moms. It's got to change. Like it just has to change.

Okay. So my other question would be for you, what do you say for [00:23:00] them if let's, and you, you and I both know, like I have some of my best friends are OBs and midwives, but you and I both know. The reason we're doing this is because of the other type of OB and how do you recommend a patient or a woman handles that if her doctor just isn't listening and there is no checking the behavior?

Colette: Yeah. Some of these doctors, it's their way or their highway. And they will make you feel like they're going to leave you or that your baby's going to die or just something traumatic, which is just like talk about keeping fight or flight at bay, like a doctor can cause more stress on you than anybody, unfortunately, because they may be coming from a place of fear or stress themselves.

And again, they are human. And like I have mentioned before, the system is. Yes, or broke. It's broken. So they're working long [00:24:00] hours. You know, they have probably a full clinic. Either it's in the middle of the night or it's in the middle of the day where they have patients waiting for an hour and a half in their clinic and they need to get back.

So they don't have time for this and we need to help your baby because this and this and your nurses may be both saying, but I can change her positions and we can do this if we could just have more time and dah, dah, dah. But the nurses like, again, I can beg them and half the time they'll listen to me like fine.

Okay. But if it comes from the patient, they can't say anything. If you can ask for more. So I always like to say, keep it simple. Is this an emergency? Is my, is my baby. Okay. Is, am I okay? Like right now, not an hour and a half from now. Yeah. I was like, cause you're making me feel like it's something I have to do this second.

So is it something that we're doing right now? Like, is it. Is it literally life or death right now? Right? You have to present it like that. And if you [00:25:00] physically can't open your mouth, your partner needs to do this. Is it an emergency? And if it's not, can we have more time? And ask for as much time as you can.

Like, can we have a few hours? Start there. Oh no, not a few hours. Maybe I'll give you an hour. But it's better than 15 minutes, right? And then in an hour Then you say, okay, great in an hour. Let's revisit this conversation. You're not agreeing to anything. You're saying let's revisit this conversation. And is there anything else I need to know while I make this decision or we talk about it?

No, I'll try to think of something else. And then they'll casually leave for an hour. Maybe they'll give you an hour. How many times do they say an hour? And it's like four hours later, they come in. Like, I guess it wasn't that big. And then in the meantime, you have that time to. Work with your nurse, get in other positions.

What are the alternatives? What did your doctor tell you that may be able to work? And then really start thinking, and how many times also, when you're educated and you understand, [00:26:00] maybe all you need is the 15 minutes. And you lay there and you're just, you start speaking with your partner and your nurse, and you come to the conclusion, you know what, I've been laboring for, 50 hours.

I'm exhausted. You know, maybe it was a c section that was on the table. You didn't have to make that decision right then and there. You just ask for more time. Maybe you have another hour. You can until the doctor gets back and then 15 minutes. You're like, Hey, you know what? I think he's right. Let's go with it.

That 15 minutes is it can lower your chances of Like emotional trauma and like guilt or being robbed of that feeling. And if you made that decision in the moment, or you just feel like you were getting pushed or coerced you, when your shoulders were relaxed, you can maybe shed some tears. You'll really think about it and you'll follow your gut on what decision is right for you instead of, you know, feeling pushed and that's going to be the difference between looking back on your [00:27:00] labor with.

A bit of trauma or like negative feelings. And a labor that, and a birth that was empowering and you were in control and like you said, we don't want a birth that was done to us. We want to be involved in this conversation. So yeah, ask for more time. And of course, ask if it's, if you have an, if you're in an emergency, you don't need to ask.

There's no, you're going to have five nurses in the room. Here's the doctor, tutor, doctor. You're going to know it's an emergency. There won't be much conversation. Yeah, that's what

Trish: I tell my moms too. This is where I was saying, have the conversations early and often. And then when you're having the conversations, watch the body language.

And that includes during labor. If suddenly your labor nurse and four other nurses come running in your room, your doctor comes in looking at your strip, looking around, people are doing things to you. Then you may not have time to make a decision. This may be the right decision. But if your doctor comes strolling in, pulls the chair [00:28:00] slowly up to the side of the bed, and sits down and says, you know, we need to start talking about blah, then chances are you have time.

And I love that we're talking about this. And, and I don't want to scare you guys. I want to empower you guys because I have so many students that come into the VBAC lab and I'm picturing them specifically right now, some of them, that with their first delivery, they, they did go into a fight or flight.

And of course, we know when that happens, your labor slows down, it doesn't progress, then your failure to progress, and then they want to take you back to the OR. And I can't tell you how many of my students that were told they had to have a c section that the baby wasn't going to come out and that this is going to be an emergency only.

To then wait like three or four hours before they do the c section. And no one's in there helping them with position [00:29:00] changes or doing any of the things. And it's like, hello, that is not too emergent if they can wait four hours. to actually do it. So it really is important you guys and I'm so happy that you came here today and I know we talked about some really heavy topics, but they're really important topics.

And I love that. We just want to remind you guys as you guys are listening. This is why Colette and I both are so passionate about educating and I'm going to have Colette tell you guys where you can find her in just a moment. I love her and I love her business. She's, like I said, she's inside of my business coaching group and I, I know her heart and soul for you guys.

And she wants to make impact just like I do. We want to impact the birth world. But I want you guys to remember, it all comes back to the same thing. It's knowledge. Like, if you [00:30:00] don't know these things, I say this. Five million times a day. If you don't know your options, you don't have any. And a lot of people do not realize that they have an option when it comes to their labor nurse.

They have an option when it comes to how they handle what their doctor is suggestion, suggesting. Anyway, go, could go off on that for hours. I want to keep this short and sweet. You guys know I like to keep the podcast short and sweet because I know you guys, you can't sit still long. So Colette, tell everyone where they can find you.

Colette: Yes, my, I am, my handle everywhere is my friends a nurse. So I'm on Instagram, TikTok. Just started my YouTube. You can go to my website, myfriendsnurse. com. And I just started my own podcast. Inspired by you called the birth link podcast. And you can get that anywhere you listen to podcasts. So thank you so much, Trish.

This is so amazing to be on here.

Trish: Oh, you're so welcome. I'm so glad that you came on. Thank you so much for coming today. And for those of you guys who are [00:31:00] listening, I'm so glad that you stuck to the end. This is an important episode. It really is. Remember that you have a voice. And just like Colette said, I say this in my free class, that the most powerful thing In the birth room is your voice and it's not just the one that you use to speak with it's what you're saying inside of your head What are you telling yourself?

It's the power of the voice on your birth plan It's the power of the voice that you speak to your partner If you're like she said your partner has you know during labor your only job is to labor now Your partner has to speak up, but they have to speak up knowing exactly what it is You want how you want it and why?

They have to know your why. Okay you guys, I will see you again next Friday. Bye for now!