Everyone knows the expression loud and clear.

Now in business, we need to turn that upside down and we need to be clear first and then loud.

Now the problem is that most coaches believe that they are clear and then they start to go loud.

But in reality, they need to be much more clear and much more loud.

Let's talk about what it looks like for most coaches that is trying to get up to those 20, 30, 40k months.

So today it's about the difference between hiring a marketer or hiring a business coach.

What are the things that will actually move the needle in your business and what are like some key clarity you need to make the right decision.

And I think the the reason for this episode is like we've been working with 840 clients right now.

840 coaches that want to grow, scale their business.

The most common mistake we hear from people who come to us.

I had a call with a guy yesterday who have been working with a marketer now for 11 months.

And where is this person in business approximately?

That person is doing approximately 5k month.

So for 11 months they got a funnel set up.

The problem is not that he doesn't have a funnel.

The problem is that the conversion rates on the sales calls is only 13 to 14%.

Which means this is exactly what happens to most people we meet, even those who are coming in as a little bit earlier stage.

The biggest problem they have is they do go out.

They believe I need to get leads, I need to get clients.

So what do I do?

Well, I turn out, I find someone who do marketing for me.

People who spent like 7,000 years just to have the market to set up their funnel.

And then they need to invest 500 years minimum a month to, to fill that up to get some lead flow.

Then what happens is that they are sitting there, they're getting in for calls, show rate for those calls are horrible.

It's very low.

And the conversion rate is ridiculously low on those calls.

So they wind up spending a lot of money having a few clients.

Yeah.

And I want to take a second and just defend the thinking strategy behind that because it's not ridiculous for a person that starts a business to believe or think that, okay, nice, I need to show up professionally, I need to create a website.

And then they spend €15,000 creating a website.

And then on the other side of having that website, they are going to drive traffic to that website.

Then they're going to drive traffic traffic to book a call or to a video sales letter or to anything that gives them like, oh, I look professional now.

I just need more eyes on it.

And that is also a very common argument of someone who's doing marketing or who is a marketer.

When we are talking about 13, 14, between 10, 30% closing rate on calls, what we are talking about is that, okay, you do not have a lead problem.

If you have 10 calls and you are closing one out of 10, then you need to address that first because something is severely broken.

You don't need more data.

If you have 10 calls, get one or two clients.

There is not something that needs fixing.

Yep.

And the reason why it needs fixing is because you have a sales problem.

Yeah.

You have a problem within your conversion because you shouldn't, you shouldn't be spending time having those many calls without getting the clients.

And I actually started up two clients this Monday that have been working in their business.

He did 250 sales calls last year and got 20 clients.

And what he feels is that if we just have more people, better people, different people, then it's going to be easier.

So what we did was that we tore his sales process apart and we pieced it together again with some very, very important steps in the sales funnel.

And they all were based on one thing and one thing only.

How badly do you want help?

And then we did that in different ways.

How can we make sure that they get to know you guys before they show up for the call?

How can we make sure that they are serious about getting help?

How can we add qualifying questions?

So the problem is that a lot of entrepreneurs and a lot of coaches believe that if I just get more leads, if I just have more people coming to me or see me, then I will get more clients.

And this means that they kind of skip the foundational work.

But really getting that messaging, that offer.

Right.

Because this is absolutely messaging problem, it's absolutely awful problem.

But it's also a funnel problem.

The problem is that marketers coming from a perspective, that job is to build funnels.

It is client flow.

It's to go out and market.

That's their job.

That's what they come from.

They see the first part of the journey.

A marketer only make sure you, you do your marketing, you're visible and you should be getting in some sales calls.

But the problem is it's probably something behind that that is not being brought up in front of the funnel.

That is costing.

And there's a huge misconception, I believe that people actually believe that marketers are able to clarify their business model and the positioning in the market.

But I don't see that, like, we have a marketing team.

They're awesome marketers.

Yeah, yeah.

And there are great marketing that is being done out there by marketers.

There's nothing against it, but it should be done at the right level.

Yes.

Now we hired a marketer.

She was a marketer, slash content creator.

I think we paid like €2,000amonth for that content creation and that kind of marketing navigation.

Now, at that time, we were making 50k a month.

@ that time, we could afford to pay 2k to free ourselves up a little bit.

So if we were to reverse engineer it and look very, very critically or skeptically at what is moving the needle, it's not masses of people we would love to have.

Because if we have a lot of people seeing our stuff and on a bigger level, it's true, more eyes on your stuff means more clients if it works.

But the problem is we don't have proof of concept.

We don't know that what we have, when we get eyes on our stuff, it actually brings us clients.

So below €20,000amonth, we shouldn't focus on how can I get as many eyes on my offer as possible.

Because we don't need to, because we have social media.

We need to build quality and we need to make sure that we build right connection with the right people with the right message so that it speaks to them in a relevant way so that we can build a foundational connection with that person.

And I can't tell you how much easier that is than to navigate the ad jungle or the big marketing stuff.

If we put it up to the helicopter view here when people get stuck in.

I believe I need a marketer, which is a fair thought.

Oh, I'm not getting leads.

What do I need?

I need someone to market and get me more leads.

I understand the thought.

The problem is not the marketing.

The problem is your business model to start with.

Because if you're not 100% clear on not that you have a business model, what your business model is, and you have the right business model, doing marketing is like, yeah, go out and do an ad.

Ad leading to what, what should happen in the next step.

And a funnel is about always the next step.

And what I see is that depending on what marketer agency you are hiring, some call themselves, most call themselves agents.

But when you're hiring them, they typically have like one.

This is my funnel.

This is what works.

This is what works.

Right.

And then you put it in and then we see it doesn't work or it works really Bad.

But the problem is you can't get help.

Yeah, but they're also educated.

What that means is that when you're looking at a standard business, if you can produce 15% profit margin at the bottom line.

Yeah, it's a great business.

Yeah.

And they can help you do that.

If you're making less than 20k, 30k months, I would say that if you don't have a profit margin of between 60 and 70%, you're doing it wrong.

I mean this is 20, 25.

Everything is free.

You have a platform, you have every way to make your voice heard.

So yeah, if you want to make 20 to 30k a month and you want to pay a lot ad spend having expenses that exceeds 12, 13, 14, 15k, I mean, you're not going to be able to afford a salary for a long time.

No, it doesn't make sense.

And I just want to really emphasize this because in my previous business we did a huge mistake.

We had made about 10 million euros at that point and we invested heavily into a marketing team that was going to help us to break out Avatar and do a marketing strategy.

And we didn't pay a hundred thousand euros.

But it wasn't far from.

And the stuff that they came up with didn't work.

No.

And it's like they are the best that you could get in the marketplace.

They had studied marketing, so they did all.

The fair thing is you can't even blame them because the reason why it didn't work is probably because everything else was missing.

Because you don't have your model working, you don't have your messaging working, you don't have the solid offer, you don't have the positioning, you don't have all of those things mapped up and have that.

You don't know how to convert.

Rule number one, don't market anything before you know how to convert.

It doesn't make sense to turn up the volumes until you know the efficiency and your conversions and different levels.

So what's the difference between business coach, a good one and.

And a marketer?

I know this for a fact because unfortunately we meet a lot of them.

There is a lot of business coaches who are not making money themselves.

You should not hire a business coach or not making money themselves.

And there are some business coaches who are very aggressive on their guarantee and promise, have a hard time living up to guarantee and promise.

But they are heavily on the marketing and they get it to work for them.

So they can be making money, but.

They can't teach, they can't give it away to someone else.

Step number one, what is the difference between a good business coach and a marketer?

Well, a good marketer is good at the technical stuff.

They will be able to get the data, they'll be able to get the leads, get those things.

But the business coach is what you need if you want to have your model, your business working.

Because it's not just about marketing.

Marketing is a very small thing in the business.

Good business coach should understand your complete client journey from the first time you hit them with marketing, organic or paid, until you have very happy referrals from that client who's been leaving your program at the other end.

Absolutely.

And if we compare like a good business coach with a good marketer, a good marketer is not going to be able to help you unless you're already making money and have proof of concept.

And I want to stress how important it is.

He won't be able to figure that out for you because it isn't his job.

It isn't his job.

So it isn't what he's trained to do.

He is going to implement something that he know works for someone else.

But you need to bring the data and the knowledge.

It's, it's kind of like a add on to the engine.

You know, if you have a turbo, you can't just put a turbo in an empty shell of a car, it's not going to run.

But if you have a working engine that is really, really great and add a turbo to the engine, it's going to work great.

So the business coach I would like to compare with, it's the engine of the car.

Then you can buy a shitty engine that is close to broken, or you can buy a highly efficient engine.

But it's the business coach.

When we have a functional engine that works the way we want it to, we can put a turbo onto that engine and that is the marketer.

And a good business coach should be able to help you navigate marketing, sales, delivery and how to simplify your business.

Which means that your business coach work together with you to make your marketer perform better.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

And when you get to that 20k a month with a 60 to 70% profit margin, you can start looking into, okay, how can I add a turbo engine to this?

How can I just fill up, make sure that I get a little more people coming my way when I'm doing what I'm doing?

Yeah.

And then you can afford to pay that marketer a couple of thousand, 2, 3, €4,000amonth to make that investment and start to add on to your current revenue.

But if you're making less than 20 for many people, if you're making less than 30, maybe even 40, what you need is to work out the entirety of your funnel what to be loud about and making sure that that you are really breaking down so you have a functional business.

If you are like, yeah, okay, that's me, what does that mean?

If you reference this podcast episode, we'll help you for free.

Just reach out to us and we'll break it down for you in your business so that you can understand how does this apply for me.

And we didn't agree upon that, but we are going to do that for free.

I'll do it myself if you want to.

Because it's so important.

There's so many coaches that spending so.

Much money too early and too premature because the guy I spoke to, he has three months left in this run rate that could have been stopped many months ago.

Because when we are stuck in this cycle, the problem becomes that we troubleshooting the wrong places.

We think, okay, we just need to have more people on top of funnel or we just need to change something in the landing page and this so we can make control the CTRs.

And we can do that definitely.

But that was not the main problem.

The main problem wasn't a funnel problem.

The main problem was a client journey experience problem.

It's the human side of it.

It's the relationship thing we need to add to our funnels to get them to work.

That is not what the marketer understand because the marketers is a technical person.

The coach is a human being, relationship person.

A good coach should understand psychology.

A good coach should understand linguistic languages, like how to get people to do stuff, not just in a technical way and not just what ChatGPT says.

But that is the huge difference to understand how do we get the human side into the technical side and get those wheels to work together.

Then we can start getting the engine running smooth.

Yeah, yeah.

And hire a great business coach.

That's step number one.

Hire a great business coach.

Yeah.

And when you're ready to scale, you have a marketer to help.

When everything else is solid and you have your business coach going through the things you do.

When everything's working.

Yeah, when everything's working and you have that dialogue with your business coach to look into the the marketing side.

So let's make a real recap.

Coaches help you build, marketers help you scale.

You need to know where you are so you can make investments wisely.

You need to understand your current bottleneck.

Don't try to do it yourself if you are not completely hundred percent certain.

Because I know the bottleneck most people believe they have is I need more leads.

And nine out of 10 times it's not the case.

It's actually something else.

Actually super interesting because in the beginning, before people get their the first five clients, they think they have a sales problem and then they realize, shit, I don't have a sales problem, I have a marketing problem.

And then they spend time in their marketing and then they realize, okay, now I get leads.

And then they're like, oh shit, I now I have a marketing problem.

I need more leads.

But no, you need to work out how to move the people who are interested in to become paying clients.

So if you like this episode, and more importantly, like I said, promise is a promise.

If you want help, reach out to us on our Instagram or any of our socials and we'll help you 100% free of charge.

Hope you like this episode.

See you next week.