I'm throwing my life away.

I'm considering myself revolutionary.

How I'm going to change the world by violence.

But I'm doing nothing but destroying myself.

And this society doesn't care.

They'll crumple you up and throw you away.

It's just building a bridge back to yourself.

You're no longer at the mercy of outer authorities, either other people or even your own ego and your own fears.

When you see somebody really begin to live their life being true to themselves, it gives you peace.

It gives you a sense of inner joy that's incomparable to the joys that come from those more surface level achievements.

All right, welcome to the Evolving Potential podcast.

This is episode number 25.

Today I have on the show Robert Firestein, better known as See Gong for his roles as Kung Fu Master, 9th degree, black belt, spiritual teacher, writer, and he's been retired from successfully owning and operating multiple training studios.

Sigong is now on an adventure recently moving from Portugal to Spain.

And he now speaks and writes about the concepts that he explored through his training, through his Universal School of Self, where he studied under a grandmaster for 38 years, including concepts such as world religions, philosophy, physics, meditation, breathwork, healing techniques, physical development, and self expression.

I'm grateful to have him on the show and honored to see how we can connect the concepts with everyday lives of high achievers who may be stuck in a rut or transitioning into a different career.

So thank you for being here, Sigong.

Thank you, Todd.

Thank you for having me.

Happy to be here and thank you for the introduction.

I was like, wow.

That'S you, man.

You did it.

You did it, not me.

That's my life.

And so it's cool that just to say, first of all, you know, shout out to, to our friend, our dear friend, Mary Lee, who's.

I said dear friend, like she's dead or something.

I don't know.

I said it like that.

But so she's connected us.

And during his training and owning these schools, he trained someone that I've, I worked with recently, who's now become a therapist.

She's doing great, doing awesome.

So she has talked nothing but amazing things about you.

And I've seen nothing but amazing things come from her.

And so I can only imagine, you know, the time and effort that it took for you to become that level of a master and instructing and affecting lives in such a way.

So that is what I would love to, you know, kind of hear about and extract from you, if you will, some of your mindsets around you know kung fu, you know, your beliefs about what martial arts are, you know, and how to overcome some of the things that everyday person is going to be dealing with in life.

So I'm curious about your intro into kung fu.

I know there's an interesting story there.

So can we start?

Can we start there?

Yeah.

Let me begin halfway in the middle of my story and where I actually got the spark to begin my kung fu training.

So let me just say briefly that I was born to parents who were drug addicts.

And though they loved me very much, they couldn't really take care of me because they were addicted to heroin.

So the first part of my life, the first years of my life, I was neglected.

I came to.

It came to a point where my mother tried to commit suicide.

She knew that she was in trouble and that we were in trouble.

So she gave my brother and I away to a foster home.

And in the foster home, they had the money and the things that we never had when we lived with our natural parents.

But they also were abusive.

They beat and abused us.

So the people who should have been our safety and protection ended up being the ones that were harming and hurting us.

My mother eventually came back because she went into a live in drug rehabilitation facility.

She took us out of the foster home and brought us into that, but that turned out to be a cult.

And so we got this experience of being involved in a program that eventually went to the dark side, so to speak, and was a cult.

And eventually we left.

But then we were living with my single mom who was still trying to figure her life out.

And she got married to someone, but who was an alcoholic and abusive.

And so I grew up watching her be abused and then wanting to rise up into my power and defend her.

And eventually I did that.

But then after I fought off my stepfather and I think that night saved her life because he was choking her, she and I called the police and he went to jail.

The very next day she went and bailed them out and they were back together.

So I realized that the problem wasn't just physical.

It was an emotional addiction.

And so as I turned the corner there into from the age of 16, going to 18, I became very violent, rebellious, self destructive and destructive to things around me.

I was angry at the world.

I wanted to strike back.

I was involved in a riot, 19 years old.

And I got arrested and put in jail.

And while sitting there in jail, I sat quietly for a moment and in the quiet, I heard this still small voice that said, this time it will Be a revolution in consciousness.

And it just hit me like a lightning bolt.

And I went, oh, wow, okay, I'm.

I'm destroying my life.

I'm throwing my life away.

I'm considering myself revolutionary.

How I'm going to change the world by violence, but I'm doing nothing but destroying myself.

And this society doesn't care.

They'll.

They'll crumple you up and throw you away.

So let me go pursue this revolution in consciousness.

And at the time, I was working at the public library in San Francisco, and I met three people who intrigued me, who I became friends with and had long conversations with, who also worked at the library.

And they each won at different times.

Told me they were part of some mysterious martial arts school.

This guy who didn't teach to the public, but taught in the basement, which is your basic Mr.

Miyagi model, you know.

And as soon as I started putting the pieces together, like, man, that's it.

That's the place.

And.

But I couldn't get an invite.

And so I just basically started bugging one of the guys and just trying to get him to feel sorry for me and tell him, I went to this other martial arts school and, you know, it's not what I'm looking for, and eventually said, why don't you come down and have a look?

So the very first night I walked down there, I sat halfway down the steps, because you had to walk down these steep steps in a basement, and it's kind of like low lighting, and they're just out there to the center of a basement floor, you know, working out, out.

And as I sat there and looked, I heard that same voice say, this is it.

This is your chance, you know, this is the chance to find what you've been looking for.

And then the teacher looked up and, you know, told me to come on down.

And through a relaxed conversation, three things that stood out.

That he said that first night was the secrets right under your nose.

We have no limits, and it's a lifetime course.

And so internally, I was like, okay, there's a sparkle in his eye.

And one day I want to have that sparkle in my eye to know what it is he knows.

So that was the beginning of my martial arts journey, and it's what brought me to this pathway of self awareness, self discovery through martial arts training in this particular case.

But a person, of course, could use any outer medium as a way of learning.

I feel each thing that we do is a mirror back to ourselves.

And the question is, are we learning by what we're seeing whether it's a person we're involved with, whether it's an activity we're doing or life itself.

It's an opportunity to learn and to see yourself and get to know yourself and do one of the greatest things that a human being can actually do but rarely do, which is be yourself.

We're always trying to be what everyone else wants us to be, or based on our own fears and insecurities and desires, we're trying to become something.

The first thing they always ask you is, what do you want to be when you grow up and you're a kid and you're like, look, aren't I something already?

And.

But then he has been a long journey.

So that, that just gives you an idea of how I got started.

And so what has martial arts, what does it mean to you?

I suppose as, as beyond, you know, physical fighting?

What is, what is martial arts?

You kind of explained it there, but I'm, I'm curious about your own words here.

Yeah, of course, if we ask that question, what is martial arts and what is the purpose of it?

I think it would be similar to asking the question, what is life?

What's the purpose of it?

And then of course, in an interview, every person that you asked would give you a different answer.

So then we're left to go, well, so what is it?

I think to some degree it has to do with what do you want it to be?

What's the meaning in it for you?

What is it that you're looking for?

So for me, I was certainly drawn to martial arts, but it wasn't really the physical aspect.

It's always that I felt that there was some wisdom, pathway of philosophy that would help me find my way in this world.

When I was a boy, I watched the television show Kung Fu with David Carradine and I was just like, wow, you know, it's.

The only thing that really made sense to me was the philosophy that he was espousing coming from Shaolin Temple.

And the school that I ended up going to was actually called the Shaolin Temple Institute.

So being Shaolin Kung fu, it's rooted in history.

It's, it's patriarch is Bodhidharma.

So it's a spiritually centered martial arts with the philosophy connected to the movements.

And that's exactly what I was looking for, which is, how can I use this art that I'm studying to find a philosophy and a connection inside myself?

It awakens me to who I am.

Well, coincidentally, if you're going to say that by Destiny by fate.

My teacher, our martial arts school was not only studying the ancient art of Shaolin kung fu, but also we were engaged in what we called the universal school of self.

And that's by looking into the mirror of the universe, you see yourself.

And by looking into yourself, you better understand the universe.

And.

And so martial arts could be many things for many people.

Some people it's ultimate fighting.

Some people it's self defense.

Some I want to gain fitness, I want to have more confidence.

I want to be able to defend myself in my life, which is, of course, very noble because none of this that we're talking about would mean anything if we weren't first alive and if we didn't protect the most sacred gift.

One of my first principles of our school was life is sacred and should be honored and protected.

And it is all those things.

But for me, it's always been a fulcrum to be able to.

For a human being to find themselves, to gain power and confidence in themselves so they could live the life that they want to live and that they can be themselves.

And it seems like the most simple thing.

But I often find that so many people are struggling with themselves, with life, with their relationships, with their work.

They don't know what to do.

They don't know where they're going.

They don't, you know, ultimately know why they're here.

And as you can see by my story, I faced all those things.

So I do understand that.

And then I do have a heart of compassion to reach out to my brothers and sisters who also may be lost along the way.

And all they simply want to do is to come home to their own heart and be who they are.

And amazingly, that takes courage to do because as we all know, people are going to reject you.

They're going to reject you if you're not yourself, but they're also going to reject you if you are yourself.

So my thing was always, why not choose being myself and get rejected for that and get rid of all the people who don't like me anyway, and then I'll actually have true friends.

But I only have true friends because I had the courage to be true to myself.

Yeah.

So the martial arts did that for me.

And then at some point I went, oh, now I have this power.

I have this knowledge.

Let me share it to a whole generation of people.

And again, shout out to Marilee, because she came in as just an amazing, beautiful young soul who was seeking knowledge and already had a level of confidence and power in herself.

But then to be able to handle her this toolkit which helped her to find herself and to now do all these things that I'm amazingly proud of her for.

It was a very reason that I got into teaching and extending and giving the gift that not only the martial art, but that my teacher gave to me.

And one thing we always say is, you know, you can't keep it if you don't give it away.

And it's in giving it away and it's actually in teaching something that you actually become bonded to it.

Right.

Because you don't know it until you try to share it with others.

As Zion Stein said, no matter how great you or complicated your theory is, if you can't explain it to a child, you don't know what you're talking about.

Yeah, yeah.

You don't understand it.

Yep, that's too funny.

So.

So I have a question for you about all this because I love your answer of what is martial arts?

And obviously I feel like inherently like that is the most.

If there were a correct answer, that is the most holistic, you know, best answer you could have is, you know, a way of expressing yourself and a way of exploring yourself and, you know, all these different things and making it meaningful to you in whatever way that may be.

But there are people who, whether it's martial arts or any other skill or endeavor that they're working towards, use it as a way to, like, make themselves feel good.

Right?

And so there is an external locus of control there.

There is.

The outside world is.

Is.

Is controlling them.

So they're looking for the achievements in Kung fu.

They're looking for the ability to, you know, be able to do something.

They're looking for the black belt.

They're looking for the recognition, you know, they're looking for the posts on Instagram, right.

So, so.

And maybe that's an entryway into it, and then they eventually lead to it.

And I feel like your school particularly would kind of detract anybody from being that way because you'd be teaching the philosophies, right, Instead of them just like learning moves, you know, because you said they're connected to the philosophies.

Let's say someone's not doing Kung fu, They're not learning these philosophies, they're just learning to fight, they're just learning boxing.

They're just learning, you know, something else, like a profession, a skill.

And it's an externally based.

How do you think that you might help someone shift to an external based motivation?

Well, yeah, first of all, I think this life is a great opportunity, and it's a great opportunity for every single human being to learn what it is they came here to learn.

And it's not for me or anyone else to dictate what that is.

If you're not called to something, you're never going to go to it.

You're always going to be drawn to what you're called to.

And in the case that we might say, well, that's not the correct thing, or why are you using this to glorify your ego?

And why do you use your power to manipulate other people or to.

To try and compare yourself or to be better other than other people?

Then I would say that perhaps is a painful lesson that person needs to learn.

Who am I to interfere?

The only time that I would be willing to interfere is when the person says, help.

I went this way and I figured out it's not the right way or show me a better way.

And that's when the training would begin in our school.

But for example, and I think partly because my teacher taught in a basement and was not interested in getting a lot of students or being popular, there's no advertising, there's no nothing.

You met somebody through a friend and then you were still under a screening process.

Like, it's not just, oh, I want to do this martial arts, pay me the money, come in.

It's like, no, I'm screening you too.

You may pick this as your martial art, but does this martial art pick you?

You may have picked me as a teacher, but I haven't decided yet whether I'm picking you as a student.

You got to show me you're here for the right reasons and the right motives, meaning the ones that I'm offering.

And if you're not, then go somewhere else and find those things because you're on a different arc or path.

But as an example, we, in our style, you might say, we weren't allowed to and did not participate in tournaments or anything that would aggrandize the ego.

And my teacher told me, the only trophy you're ever going to get is the one that you have in your own heart.

And so I have to say, as a young man, there was a period where I started fantasizing or imagining, hey, man, I'm pretty good at this.

I bet I should knock some people out.

And I even one night thought of, hey, I had this speech I was going to give my teacher about how, hey, there's this tournament, and if I enter and if I win, then it's going to help the school.

And I'll be the one to uplift the school.

And this is my noble intention, you know, to, to help you in what you're doing.

And I think, luckily for me, because my teacher didn't suffer fools, I got there and kind of got a frog in my throat.

And I go, no, you better not say that.

But he made it clear in every day, in every way that that's not what we're here for.

And so, yes, in my then some 40 years of teaching, many young people came with the same aspirations, we might call it, rather call it ambitions.

Hey, I'm gonna be somebody.

I'm gonna be a star.

And it's a natural thing.

I don't, you know, I didn't look down on it.

I said, hey, well, come on in, let's do the training.

But slowly you're planting the seeds and you're, you yourself are being a mirror to them.

Because what you're really asking is what do you really.

What are you really seeking?

Right?

The reason we're seeking those outer accomplishments that might seem vainglorious is because deep down inside, we don't believe in ourself.

And so we feel if I can do these things, it will show that I really am somebody.

And to some degree, we do have to take a challenge and we do have to accomplish something to gain confidence in ourselves.

But then who's the self that was below that, who still hasn't found what it was looking for after the achievements come?

People come to that point in life.

It's like, look at my wall.

I've got nothing but trophies.

Look at, I might even have a trophy wife or a trophy husband.

But how?

And I have the house, and I have the car, and I have everything.

But then why am I still feeling empty, Right?

I thought I accomplished everything that the world said that you needed to accomplish to be successful and be someone.

But somehow I missed the greatest thing.

I missed myself.

Who was the person?

Who's the person living inside this success?

And that's where the path then begins for that person.

I just feel lucky enough to have gone to a teacher who got me to circumstances meant that plan.

And to help me take the.

The martial arts as a way of finding and expressing myself, empowering myself, and then to set me up for what my even greater heart's desire was, which would be to lead other people.

The, the great joy of finding it yourself is that joy times one.

But sharing it with another human being and watching them find it is that joy times infinity.

There's no Greater joy than.

Than watching somebody else get into the sweet waters that you yourself have already found living within yourself.

And so that's why, for example, I could name many students, but I'm just using Marilee as the reference now.

When you see somebody really begin to live their life being true to themselves, it gives you peace, it gives you a sense of inner joy that's incomparable to the joys that come from those more surface level achievements.

And so what do you think are some of the things that you have to overcome to really be yourself?

What would someone like, you know, we can't really talk about merely, I can't keep talking about merrily, sorry, but you know, someone who is struggling to overcome these things and really be themselves.

You've had many, many students over the years, obviously, so, you know, pick and choose, you know, kind of example you might want to use.

But someone who really needs to overcome some of these things.

What are the things you've seen?

And.

And I feel like I know what the way that you help them is, so I don't really need to answer that, but I guess, yeah, what are the things that you're.

That you're seeing these people are coming to you with and needing to overcome and really in order to really be themselves?

Well, ironically, I would say that the greatest obstacle to being yourself is yourself.

And.

And so that becomes a little bit of a puzzle, right?

A paradox, because we come into a world that is not always fair or just.

We may come into a world where we look outside our window and we might say, what's happening here certainly was the case with me that I looked at the adults in my life and said, they don't know what they're doing, and they're the ones who are.

Are leading and guiding me.

Fortunately for me, I never thought, well, I never wanted to conform to what I was being told that I was or what I should be in some cases, being beaten in order to be what I should be in another person's eyes.

But I always thought, oh, no, that's not the truth.

They don't know the truth.

It's a little bit scary.

But later in my life I went, well, it's up to me to go and find that truth and live it, and it's living in me.

So.

But along the way, I had to take on and create a Persona to survive in the world.

And that self that we create, that is partly what other people taught us we were, and what we partially taught ourselves.

We were, is a reflection of a series of ideas but we come to believe in it as ourself.

And the classic phrase is, it's your ego.

But ego can mean two things.

In some cases, when people say ego, they mean a certain level of arrogance.

And that certainly can be a part of it.

But really what it means to me is a Persona that you've created that you now believe in and hold together by your belief.

And that person who started off being created because you didn't feel worthy, you didn't feel valuable, you didn't know who you actually were internally.

So you have to create a Persona that will then go out in the world and get all those things.

And so this ego self has two things.

It has fear and desire.

And the both fear and desire are interconnected.

In other words, if I'm afraid that I'm nobody, then I have a desire to be somebody.

If I afraid.

If I'm afraid that nobody will ever love me, then I have to meet my soulmate and have to find that person who will validate me in who I am.

So often when a person is dating someone and when they fall in love, they never fall in love with the person.

They actually fall in love with themselves, which is to mean I fall in love with the person that.

That I see when you look at me lovingly and say that I'm so wonderful.

My whole life, nobody thought I was wonderful.

When I meet this person, we fall in love and they go.

Every word that comes out of your mouth, every twinkle, every hair on your.

The hair on your head is just beautiful and magnificent, and we're just basking in that.

And you say, man, I want to be with this person for the rest of my life because they can make me feel good about myself.

Well, anyone who's ever followed the script will find out that the intoxication of love wears off after a while and you're actually left with the person as they actually are.

And then often for people, it's like, really, that's who you were.

How could.

How come you were hiding all this stuff?

I wasn't actually hiding it.

To some degree, yes.

Because we put on our best face, the mask of the ego and be who everybody wants us to be and makes the.

Makes us lovable.

But when it wears off and they realize you had baggage that now is coming out and they have to deal with it, then I don't love you anymore.

Or even worse, I hate you.

I don't know what happened, but how do we get together?

I hate you.

And then you divorce, right?

Yeah.

So once in one of My sessions, one of my students asked in front of the whole class, who said, siong, how do we get rid of the ego?

And without missing a beat, and not that I knew the answer, I would say more that it came through me was, well, that's the funny thing, because only the ego asks that question, because the ego itself is on this idea.

I'm going to get rid of the ego, because then I'll be even better.

And it's actually when you go inside and what it means to go inside.

For example, in the center of our martial arts, we always began the class with the meditation.

In the meditation, you enter into an awareness that's beyond your thoughts, it's beyond your emotions, it's beyond your physical sensations and desires.

It just is simply purely aware.

And from there, you can see.

And when you can see, you can actually see the mechanism of your own ego, which is the collection of it, a series of thoughts, emotions, and desires.

But it's come to be known by you as you.

And then you can begin to look and like, okay, where's that coming from?

Oh, that's a fear that I need to release so part of my power can come back to me.

Oh, that's something that someone taught me.

But now I'm living off this idea that was never true.

Let me untangle that knot.

From the position of the person inside who's just aware, you can begin healing the outer self, integrating the healthy parts of yourself, and begin to awaken to two things.

I would say who you are, which is this unlimited potential, and number two, okay, now that you found there's an unlimited potential, who do you want to be?

You know, when I found that, I thought, oh, I can do anything.

I really do have no limits.

My teacher was telling me the truth.

I got very afraid because I thought, I'm going to create the wrong thing.

I'm just going to use this as an opportunity to aggrandize this ego, this wound itself that now has used martial arts to be somebody in the world.

And now I'm going to get the power and wait, okay, let me not.

Let me not create that.

So I took several years to really relax and to really get to know myself better so that the vision that emerged from my heart would be pure.

It would be what I call my deepest heart's desire.

And it turned out that was to be a teacher.

I went, oh, I found this beautiful art.

And just to.

To have found it and to now be a black belt and a practitioner of it, that was beyond my wildest dreams.

Of anything I had accomplished up until that point in my life.

And I thought, how much sweeter if I could be a teacher of this?

And then later, how.

What if I opened my own school as a branch?

And also that school could be whatever I wanted it to be, and I could address the wrongs of my childhood.

I watched my mother be beaten.

So I opened a program for girls called Girl Power.

How can you plant the seeds of empowerment in girls that they're special, beautiful, smart and strong, and they don't deserve to be abused.

So that, like my mother, the.

The problem wasn't physical.

The problem was emotionally her not knowing that she deserved better than that, that what she called love was not truly love.

And.

And she just never had had a sense of herself enough to stand up and go, I'm sorry, I can't see you anymore.

I don't deserve to be treated with this disrespect.

Yeah.

So I just began beginning dreaming from this place of awareness, guiding my life from this place of awareness.

Now the ego comes in and it starts to try and get its hands back on the wheel.

Okay.

Yeah, that's a really good insight.

Aren't you proud of yourself?

You came up with that and you always return to awareness.

So you can say, I see what you're doing.

And as you begin to see what the ego is doing and that it's mostly coming from fear.

And then desire arises out of fear.

Because I'm afraid of this.

I desire this to happen because it will answer what I'm afraid of.

If I'm nobody, I could be somebody.

I'm not.

I'm not important.

Then I could be important.

If I'm not loved, then I could get people to love me.

So see how fear and desire are dancing together?

Yeah.

But then you can just watch them and then you can just say, well, that's.

That's sweet.

That's funny.

Thank you for your input.

But I'm going to go with this deeper impulse within me.

And once I knew that, that this self that was aware was the one leading the life, then I was free.

And the real freedom came.

Was this is who I was all along.

It was the spark of awareness that was in the infant, in the boy, in the young man, in the struggling man, in the trying to find himself man.

I was there the whole time, being aware.

And then I called this the master within.

And I turned to the disciple within and I said, thank you.

Thank you for surviving the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune and giving me enough time to find myself.

For taking me on a path that led me back to myself.

Because now, at last, I know who I am.

I can accept myself, I can forgive myself, I can love myself.

And most importantly, I can be myself.

And so this major obstacle, and it has to be confronted, and there's no easy magic formula, because I, as this master within, also have a disciple that's walking the road with me to this day.

It's just that I've learned to learn from him.

And so as I listen to my fears, my worries, my doubts, the things I'm struggling with, I learn more about what it is to be human.

I understand other human beings better.

But also my disciple looks to the master within me when he's struggling and says, help me.

Show me the way.

And then I know where to find it.

Because truly, I am the one who gave birth.

I am the self that gave birth to all the selves that have been an evolution.

I know the people say, you know, I.

I'm remembering my past lives.

I like, you've had past lives in this life, but do you remember them?

And it is just something you went through to learn about yourself.

And when you come from the center of pure awareness, not only are you learning from yourself, but you're learning from others and you're learning from the world.

The way I like to describe it is at the wheel.

There's a center, a hub that is still, and everything else revolves around it.

So the outer tire is where you meet the world.

It's actually what pushes the world, the wheel, to spin, Right?

Outer stimuli, how people treat you, what's happening in the world.

It will provoke fears, it will provoke anger, it will provoke some sense of, I need to get revenge, I need to get back at this person.

And as it hits the wheel, that what turns is your emotions and your thoughts.

And if you go into them, you're going to take that ride.

But if you return to the center, it's still going to spin, right?

But you're just going to be watching and learning and growing as life continues to happen.

Everything's not going to happen in your favor, by the way.

Nothing's permanent here.

Everything comes and goes.

Even you eventually will come and go.

But you learn the most when you bring yourself, the eye back to the eyelet within that's watching its spin, right?

And so this is what I really love, because I don't need to be anything.

It's enough to be a human being.

Yeah.

So can I.

I gotta.

I gotta touch.

I gotta touch on this.

This metaphor you used before.

Before it gets lost, because I'm all about that.

And.

And that was a great one with the master and disciple.

So the idea that, you know, you as this larger awareness that you're connected to, this deeper awareness beyond everything is the master and the disciple is this self that you created to live in this world, the self that maybe some of that's self created, some of that is input on us from other people.

They tell us who we are, they evaluate us, they put labels on us.

Right.

And then.

And as you said, that is.

You know, I've thought about this as a hurricane in the past, you know, being in the eye of hurricane, you know, and as you might describe, it's like shifting around you all the time are these identities that we've created and we're shifting into a new one.

And now we're a fourth grader or a fifth grader or whatever, you know, now we're a teacher, now we're students.

Now we're, you know, into like.

They're all just labels that are always, you know, moving around us as we maintain that inner awareness of who we are the whole time.

Right?

Yeah.

So I love that.

I love that concept so much.

Yeah, I think it's.

It's very helpful because, for example, here I am with the name Seagong, Master, Master teacher.

But I would say there's never an end point of being a master.

It's about a journey of mastery, which means you always have a level of humility because you're always learning, and you're learning from the outer self that's always exploring.

Right.

But once you believe you're that self and that self only in a sense, you get stuck a little bit because the very thing that's learning has been withdrawn from the equation.

Now, you know, now I'm sending somebody.

Now I got it.

Think of the truth as the ocean.

As soon as you catch it, it's just a puddle in your hands.

It's not the ocean anymore.

You can swim in it, you can observe it, but it has its oceanness because nobody can capture it.

Same with a river.

If you go by the river, you catch it.

You just have a little bit of water, but the river flows.

Right?

And the truth of ourself actually were always growing into.

Right.

And so here I am at this part of my life, and.

But I'm still a mystery to myself.

There's still element intervention that still hasn't been explored, that still hasn't been expressed.

So I'm not trying to get there.

I'm not trying to you know, yes, we all want to be the.

The best version of ourself, so to speak, but there's never going to be the end to that.

And there's peace in that because you'll be frustrated.

Like, when am I going to be the best version of myself?

You know, And.

And it's like, okay, now I am.

Now I can just rest.

I'm just going to chill.

No, because there's always more.

One of the quotes I came up with in my dojo was airb Horizon game leads to a new horizon.

So, yes, I hike that mountain, and yes, I see the that horizon, and then I go, I'm going to go over there.

But as I go and move to a new position, there's another horizon, and there's another horizon.

So ultimately, the journey is infinite.

But most importantly, I get angry.

Anger used to work against me.

Anger used to be the cause of destructiveness to myself and to others.

Anger was possibly going to get me killed.

And I remember sitting down at some point and going, boy, anger, you know, it's not working for me anymore.

You're, like, taking me to places I don't want to go.

I understand you and I understand what you're angry about, because there's a lot of things to be honestly angry about.

But it's just when you do martial arts, you start to tune into your body, and then you start to feel the toxic effects of pumping anger through your system.

And then you start to go, wow, I'm like, I'm poisoning myself, Right?

And so my mother taught me because she eventually went into AA and quit drugs and alcohol.

And she said, before you can quit something, you have to understand what it is, what it's doing for you.

And so at that point, I said, I think I want to quit anger, but I need to know what anger gives me.

Yeah.

And when I meditated upon that, it was, oh, anger gives me a sense of connection, that I still care about the world or I still care about others.

And I don't want to let that go because it'll mean I'll be apathetic and I just won't care.

You know, we understand on the Buddha's path, you know, suffering comes from attachment, you know, but then when you really think about being detached, you're like, I don't want to be detached.

I still want to live.

I still want to care.

And so I said, well, maybe there's another quality that could keep me connected, that I still care, but doesn't feel as bad to me as anger and as I reflected, the word compassion came to me.

And so I said to myself, okay, first of all, anger, my friend, thank you for your service.

It was probably you that kept me alive.

It's probably you that kept me going.

It's probably you that got me to fight back against, for myself, to stand up for myself, often in destructive ways.

But at least I was fighting.

And you've brought me here.

But I'm going to give compassion a try for a little while, maybe a year.

And if compassion doesn't do the job, I'll hire you back.

So just please sit down now and I'm going to try out compassion.

And so when world events happened or something that normally just got me really angry and stirred up, I really saw the suffering that was happening other people.

And I felt compassion, which keeps me connected.

And I still want to take action.

It's just a more measured action.

But then of course, a person will say, oh, so you're saying, are you totally free from anger now?

And it's like, no, Anger still comes and goes when it wants to, but I'm just not following it.

Yeah, you're not angry, identified with it.

Right.

I'm, I'm learning from it.

I let it come to me.

I let it stay for days if it needs to.

And I see, please, tell me more, tell me more.

Let's get it going.

Let's get it going.

Get it all out.

Yeah.

Bring it to the surface.

Yeah.

And then I take the wisdom of that anger and then I apply it to who I am in my decision making.

See, this is different.

There's a little bit of danger because I found out what happens in life when you suppress anger.

And it's like making TNT inside of yourself.

You're just compressing, compressing.

And then on the smallest thing, pop and kaboom.

And they go, I.

What happened?

Just.

I'm just kidding you, man.

And so that doesn't work.

That's toxic to the self.

So what I'm saying is not about suppressing anger, but it's allowing anger to be, but not allowing anger to be me.

Something that I learned from, not something that I am.

Right?

So I had this quote, which is, emotions are great teachers.

They just are very poor leaders.

Right?

And so I do have an emotional life, but I don't want it to lead me.

With the caveat being, unless I choose, you know, the river of life is going by and I can sit on the rock and meditate and watch it go by.

But if that's all I do, it's not True freedom.

It's as if I can only be free if I'm outside of things.

But the truly free person can jump into the river anytime and swim around and really just enjoy the currents and see where it's taking you and splash and play.

And then when you're ready, you step out and look again.

So this freedom means I can go in and out, but I'm no longer under the grip of my ego or my anger or the other emotions.

They come.

It's like being on earth.

It's not always going to be sunny.

The clouds are going to come and it's going to seem dark.

And I'm, you know, get that feeling there's no hope.

Now.

In the past when I got that feeling, I would always say, well, there's no hope.

Can't see.

You can't see a ray of sun in the sky.

It's over, man.

Like, why did.

Why did you even do this?

And all that stuff you were teaching and the self discovery, it was all.

See, we finally proved it to you.

But I've been at the game long enough to where this too shall pass.

And the clouds will move on and the sun, sun will come out away some.

The sun will come out again and there's that silver lining or that rainbow that makes the storm have been worth it.

And you continue.

So now when it comes over me like that, I'm.

I'm almost excited because I go, oh, okay, I get to learn something.

It's unexpected sometimes because something hits a nerve of a pocket, a place where unconsciously I was hiding something or not aware of it.

And the outer events provokes it.

And then I get to get it up where I can see it.

And therefore I can then heal and release it and integrate that part of myself that I hid away because of the way I was wounded as a child and reintegrate it into myself, man.

And that's powerful of like being able to.

To get yourself to a place where you've recalibrated, come kind of through kung fu and connected with yourself and then started to notice those things, you know, so that then you could then take on the practice of allowing them and learning from them even more, you know, not like encouraging them.

Almost like, teach me, teach me your lessons.

As you said.

You know, there's a.

There's a guy named Paul Check.

He's a holistic practitioner.

You know, he.

He calls like each of these things that sends us a message, like Dr.

Dr.

Payne, you know, Dr.

This, Dr.

That.

And they all have like these, These Lessons, because we listen to doctors, you know, we take their advice.

And so, like, if there's a Dr.

Anger, if you will, you know, that comes through, and it's like, he's got.

He's got something to teach you, you know, and we really got to listen to that.

And that's, like, really cool for you to overcome that anger.

And I wouldn't.

I don't even know if overcome is the right word.

You know what I mean?

But.

But really come be at peace with the anger and allowing the anger to be there.

And.

And that's really cool.

And.

And I wanted to go back real quick, you know, while I.

While I have the floor to.

To something that you said earlier where I was kind of curious, like, if someone comes in and they want to be a champion, if they want to be a fighter, if they want to, you know, just beat people up or whatever, you know, you said you essentially allow it.

It's like, come in with that, you know, sure, you know, we'll get started.

And then you start teaching them your lessons, and you kind of create that safe space, and you bring in this meditation to connect them to their larger awareness.

And then, as you said, that recalibration happens.

And so it made me think of.

There's a.

There's a gentleman named Yogananda, you know, that you're.

You're probably familiar with.

And so when I was watching his documentary, it was really interesting because a guy came to his sanctuary, whatever you'd call it, and he was like, smoke cigarettes and.

Or cigars, I guess, and.

And drink and stuff.

And he was like, are you allowed to do this here?

He's like, I feel like I might not be able to be a student here because I can't give those things up.

And Yogananda's like, you don't need to give those things up.

And he's like, what do you mean?

And he's like.

He's like, no, go ahead.

He's like, you.

You're welcome to do those things.

You just may find that you don't want to after a certain time, you know.

And so I felt like the same.

Like, that's reminded me of that.

It was very profound in my own.

My own thinking was, you know, you're like, hey, you know, you.

You're welcome to come here, and if you want to do tournaments or you want to beat people up or you want to do whatever, you know, you know, sure.

But you may find that you don't want to do those things.

Once you get started, you Know.

And that's.

And that was.

That was.

Yeah.

Profound.

Yeah.

And I.

The way we started our classes where we would take a period of time to meditate and reflect, I would ask a question and say, then don't answer from your mind, but go into your part to hear the answer that you never thought of before.

Because if you only go into your mind for answers, you're just repeating what you already know.

And if you're repeating what you already know, you'll be crazy.

And also, you.

You won't grow.

And.

But then after the students would answer that question and whether from.

From 5 years old all the way up.

I mean, I taught tai chi at the senior center, so I taught from 5 years old to 100.

But after.

When the person shared whatever it is, they said I would bow.

But by the way, whether they said.

Whether I thought what they said was actually coming from their heart or coming for their ego or it didn't really matter, because by bowing and not answering back and not telling them the answer, they got to actually see their answer more clearly and decide for themselves.

Wait a minute.

Do I really think that or did that just like.

Like you could hear the vibrational tone?

It's like, I think I was just trying to impress the teacher or they impressed the other students around me.

It was a really deep answer, but it wasn't actually the answer.

It's in me.

And so this, the concept that I would say is a mirror, you know, coming to ground zero of yourself is the greatest mirror.

And once you find it, then you start.

You can look into the mirror of everything else.

And this mirror reflects two things.

Because we live in a dualistic universe, it reveals who you are and who you're not.

But those two images, juxtapositioned, are there to teach you who you are, right?

So by knowing who you're not, you can finally let that go.

And then by the other going, oh, but this.

Yes, this is me.

And that process of using the universe, I think the universe itself creates this as an opportunity for us to learn who we are, then everything becomes a mirror.

And when it's seen as you're looking into a mirror, it's really a teacher, right?

And so if you.

Only if you're willing to look like, hey, I'm a person with a lot of integrity.

I really am a loyal and faithful person.

Okay, now you're in a relationship, what does that person bring out in you?

It's like, no, I love humanity.

It's just that person over there that I have a problem with no.

But that person is reflecting back to you, something you still have yet to see in yourself.

Right.

And because they agitate you, they become your greatest teacher.

Because the question is not that, you know, why did they agitate me?

The question is, why am I agitated?

And.

And when it's seen from that perspective, then we don't no longer have to be afraid of the universe because it's working in our favor, the world because it's an opportunity to learn and grow, or our work that we do, or our relationships or even ourself.

As we say, when in a dark room alone, act as if you're facing a noble guest.

And I would say that noble guest is you.

And can you be true when there's no one looking?

Can you see yourself when there's no one there to see you and become nothing?

And then you really become something.

But when you're always trying to be something, you can't truly see yourself.

Yeah.

And so even if you were doing a practicing kung fu and you're like living a normal life and you're a dad and you have a job and now you're practicing kung fu, you know, so where does the line.

This is.

This.

There's no.

This is a difficult question.

But between discipline and of a craft and just like letting go and just being okay with things being as they are.

Because you said as along with fear comes desire.

So what if there's a fear of, you know, not being good enough?

That's.

That's creating the desire to.

To pursue kung fu and be a master.

Yeah.

So it's something that we have to face.

I think throughout my life, early on, deciding to.

Being drawn to is probably a better way of saying it.

To philosophy, for example.

Particularly I read the Dao de chain when I was 19 also.

And there's like a way and.

And.

But it's a softer, gentler way, a way that's more aware.

And one of the quotes, for example, is doing nothing and yet everything gets done.

And so when I experimented with it and I did nothing, it's like, well, yeah, it is true.

Nothing is getting.

I mean, it's not true because I did nothing and so nothing's getting done.

So in that it's a little bit misunderstood.

So I've always wrestled with what we might call self acceptance and then ambition.

Part of me wants to grow, wants to awaken my unlimited potential as a human being.

To yes, be a better man in all areas of my life, to be a better husband, to be a better father, to be a Better teacher, to be a better friend, to be a better member of the community, even the world community.

So where does that balance with self acceptance?

And I came up with the word aspiration, that there's self acceptance.

Being at peace with myself and exactly where I am.

But with my aspiration means I gently follow the vision or calling of my soul and take steps towards it every day.

And being at peace with myself, where I am and with the steps and what I learn with the steps as they're unfolding.

The difference between the word aspiration to me is that it's following the guidance of my spirit from within my heart, and it will take me to greater places and I should follow that.

But in that case, it's not based on the desires of the ego.

The ego is the one that creates ambition.

And so the desires are then laced with fear.

From aspiration, I get a vision.

And because I found that place inside of me where I know I'm be, I'm out of the clutches of my patterning of thoughts, emotions that tend to take a grip on your life.

And from there this vision emerges.

And then I can say, ah, that's it, that's where I need to go.

Or that's how I can be better.

Now let me just gently walk it out.

And this way I'm constantly growing to this potential that's on the horizon of myself and aspiring to it.

I'm, I'm still doing that to this day, but I'm not caught in the, the, the battle of the ego which wrestles between ambition and how come, how come, you know, you know, you get angry, frustrated and depressed because that thing didn't happen.

And it's like that's the telltale sign that you're not really at peace, that it's coming from more your ego desire than it is coming from your deepest heart's desire.

And, and then what people often tell me is, how do I know that true vision or that true voice?

And it's really by spending enough time, because there's a frequency to both of them that you'll begin to sense.

And once you sense the vibration of envisioning, which is different than ambition, you'll notice that a great feeling of peace comes over you.

It's actually a method that my wife and I use in any decision we make.

We sit down together and we meditate and pray on it.

And then when we open our eyes, we share with what we saw and what we think that we should do based on whatever decision needs to be made.

And if both of Us have a shared vision and we both have peace with it.

We're going to do it because.

And we've been doing that for many years, and that's why our life is unfolding so beautifully, is because we're trusting this inner guidance.

In the case of me and her, we're.

We're co trusting this guidance.

If she says, I don't feel peace and I do, then we don't do it.

And if I feel peace and she doesn't, we don't do it.

Of course, if we both don't feel peace, we don't do it.

But we align ourselves because in the case of a marriage, you have a co destiny that you're creating together.

And we're not one of us to overrule the other, because that's not really a true relationship.

But I do that for myself personally, for my individual decisions.

But the hallmark of it is peace.

I see a vision and I have peace.

I want to say one caveat, because often there's something that we're wrestling with that we need to wrestle with and the answer doesn't come to us and we think there's something wrong or that we need to force, no, I need to decide this right now.

Usually that's not the case.

The case is that there's a higher wisdom within you, knowing you need more time to see more of the picture, to really ultimately decide.

So in those cases, you don't force it and you're just patient because life is going to unfold at its own pace anyway.

And if you try to force it, you're actually going to get yourself in more trouble or no, I'm going to make sure I find peace and be okay with it because I got to decide now.

No, again, that's your impatience.

That's coming from your ego, which is saying, I should be there now or this should be happening now.

Do your part and trust the universe or God to do its part in a certain balance and harmony will begin to flow.

And so I always say, have the faith to move at the speed of love.

Right.

Love doesn't always move as fast as you want to, but if you follow it at its pace, it always delivers.

And it delivers more abundantly than you could have even imagined.

You know, part of that is about letting go of control and realizing there's something greater guiding you in your destiny.

Yeah, I love, I love the idea of letting go and realizing something is guiding you.

And the idea of things that I've heard around your soul wanting expansion, your soul wanting to grow Wanting to explore, you know.

And so I.

I have in the past struggled with understanding that fully, where it's like, okay, if my soul wants to expand, wants to grow, you know, I.

I see that as synonymous with improvement, you know, which then if you look at the backside of improvement, there is, I'm not good enough.

Right.

I need to improve.

I need to be better, essentially.

And so it's like, does the soul want me to be better?

I.

I don't.

And you said, well, we need to accept.

We need acceptance.

Very, very important piece.

So that is acceptance and unfolding and allowing and seeing that.

Unfolding and allowing and guiding and even following, maybe not guiding, but using our guide to follow that path, you know, in a way that just feels so much better.

And so we can expand and grow in a way that is more unique to us as opposed to, you know, societal expectations or whatever, Right?

Yeah.

And I think that you'll always tell the difference because actually, because of the.

That anxiety, you know, when you're making dreams that are based on vanity or ego, it has a certain vibration to it, and you start getting all these feelings of angst and fear, fear and frustration.

So it telling you the signal that it's coming out of that place.

Whereas when you just follow this gentle lead of your heart, this still small voice within, you actually won't feel that anxiety.

Right?

And in this case, it's the gentleness of a journey.

Putting one foot, then another foot, then another foot, then another foot.

Journey of a thousand miles begins with one step.

So I only have to do what I can do today.

And today.

And today, my.

My journey into self.

Mastery of Kung fu, just as an example, is one punch, another punch, another punch, another punch.

And so Kung fu ultimately means long work, hard work, long practice.

And so I become what I practice.

But that moment of accumulating and coming to what you're actually searching for, which is effortless flow.

Mastery is effortless flow.

And there's no greater joy.

And I got all the.

The tools at my fingertip.

And now something greater is playing the piano of me and creating the music that comes through me.

But I know the keys and I know where to put my hands, but I need to look to that inner guidance.

Then in that case, there's a harmony to it, right?

And as soon as you feel like, oh, I should have done this, you go, that person, you just have to relax, right?

And I just want to say, it's okay.

It's okay to feel that way.

You know, that in itself, being frustrated that you Feel frustrated is so natural to the path.

So just relax in that moment.

Accept it.

You're smoking a cigarette.

Accept it.

You're doing this, this and that.

Accept it.

But you'll notice that it actually creates a gentleness that begins to release the grip of these things on you that aren't healthy for you.

And then your journey unfolds.

It will unfold very much like a flower.

You know, first of all, it's.

You're starting as a seed buried in the mud, you know, and then you start to make your way, struggle through that until you come up into the water, it's a little easier.

And there's a fuzzy light on the horizon.

You just don't know what it is, but you're moving towards it.

But that gentle pushing towards that light is actually what causes you to grow and unfold.

And if you keep going, you'll eventually hit the surface of the water, and under the direct rays of the light, then you'll begin to really blossom into who you are, right?

And.

But that's a journey.

And at any given moment, when you're finally the lotus sitting on top of the pond, you can't look down and go look at these other poor fools in the mud, because right at that moment, you'll feel, oh, my roots are in the mud.

I'm.

We're part of each other.

We're on a continuum of the same journey.

And it has to be okay to be in the mud, to be struggling with the darkness, to be moving towards the light.

And I cannot sit and judge and pretend to be above, because I actually took the same journey.

And so I think that's important.

Often as being a teacher, people will get this idea, oh, it's so easy for you, and.

And you're just above it all, and all those kind of things.

And they also get intimidated, like, okay, well, I'll never be there.

And that's when I gently remind them, no, I'm the same as you, brother, or I'm the same as you, sister.

And I've been through it, right?

And in times, I'm still going through it.

It's part of our human destiny.

But, yes, if you continue not to aspire to that light within you, then who you truly are, in essence, is going to emerge.

And then you're going to be able to sit on that water and share the beauty of who you are in the fragrance of who you are with the world.

I love that.

Another great metaphor, you know, coming up, coming out into the light, coming from the mud, you know, sitting Atop, you know, on your perch, almost looking down, but refusing to look down necessarily on, you know, other people or other plants or other, you know, things, because you understand where they came from.

You understand that you're all the same.

And so I could see you doing that as a teacher, as coming up and being like, oh, I'm better than other people.

I'm better than this, and I'm better maybe at some point in your career, and then realizing, like, oh, no, we're all the same, and they're just at a different level than me.

And as I improve, all I want to do is to help to make them feel like it's okay that they're at that place in their career, that they're in that place in their hobby or whatever they want to call it for them, know.

And then you decide to move into teaching.

And this is where I kind of wanted to touch on some of the struggles of you moving into.

From a student to being a teacher and finding your voice, you know, and.

And being.

Moving into that new role, you know, and the challenges you.

You faced.

Yeah, well, when I left San Francisco and moved down to Tucson to start a branch of the school that I had studied with at for 20 years, the parting instructions, I think, not the last thing that he said to me, but the thing he said to me before I left, he kind of looked at me and he says, and whatever you do, Bob, don't become a spiritual snob.

And.

And I think he personified that.

He taught us the mysteries of the universe, and he was very evolved as a human being, and yet he was always down to earth, always playful, always with a great sense of humor, always shooting this.

Also always sharing his shadows with us.

And I think he did it intentionally so that we wouldn't, one, put him on a pedestal, and two, wouldn't avoid the temptation to put ourselves on a pedestal.

And then as I actually went down and opened the school and so to speak, became the man, you know, everyone's looking to me, you know, for the answers.

And at first they want to learn kung fu, but then I'm saying some wisdom.

They're like, I want to know more about that.

I noticed this.

This tendency in human beings to give away their power and to make somebody else that power.

And so they want you to make the decisions for them or tell them what to think or tell them what the way is.

And to me, there's certainly a temptation to take on the role, like, especially have the title master.

It's like, oh, okay, yeah, I am the master.

I'm going to tell you how to live.

But it was the antithesis of what my teacher told me.

And I felt it was a test.

It was actually an ego test, just at a higher level.

And I always was reminding myself that my role here as teacher is only to hold up a mirror and help them see themselves and help them see the answers that are within them so they could awaken the master within, inside of them.

Because if the master is outside of you, what happens if the master dies?

Oh, God.

Yeah.

And so my path, I consider myself to have passed that test, to lead people, but to not take on what they're so willingly, to project on you and give away, you know, and say no, you know, it's kind of like if you see the Buddha on the road, kill it, because it's within you, and if it's not within you, it doesn't matter.

This whole path doesn't matter anyway.

Right?

And.

And so not to hold myself into the light of what everyone's projecting me to be and to stay humble inside myself and to, you know, check myself before I wreck myself.

And part of moving to Europe for me has been and stepping away from my role in the dojo as.

As seagong or a master teacher is, was just such a beautiful humility, because suddenly I don't have title, I don't have rank.

Nobody wants to hear what I have to say, and I'm, in a sense, back to nothing.

And then I get to reinvent, so who am I?

And I'm no longer looking into the mirror of people putting me up there and saying, what does qigong have to say about this?

You know, because although as much as you try to point people back to their own power, sometimes it's not until you step away that they'll really challenge themselves to find it.

And so the.

The.

In the Shaolin tradition, they have this scene where in order to leave the Shaolin temple, you have to snatch the pebble out of your master's hand, you know, and then he learned that if you do it successfully, goes time for you to go.

And I think the pebble represents yourself and your own power to take the power you've learned from the master, but now take it so you can wield it yourself.

And so the saying is, when the student is ready, the master appears.

And as I left our school and left it in the hands of my students who are now opening schools around the world, I said, but when the student's ready, the master disappears.

That and so, sorry to tell you, but you're on your own there now.

I'm still here for guidance.

I would call myself the Dojo Whisperer, but they make the journey for themselves.

And.

And that's.

It doesn't mean anything to learn my lessons.

It doesn't learn it.

It doesn't mean anything to tell the truth that I told the way I told it based on my experience.

You have to find it for yourself and tell it and own it and tell it through your story.

Otherwise it has no validity and there's no shortcut.

You have to take the path.

You know, that is to me, the lifetime path.

That the lifetime course that my teacher spoke to me of.

Don't get me wrong, sometimes I so want people to get it.

And it's mostly out of compassion or love.

It's like, I want you to have this.

But I've learned over these years is it takes time.

And I.

My desire will never catapult them towards their own achievement.

The desire has to come from within their heart and their particular achievements or as we're saying, aspirations will rise to the level of their own heart.

And often people do need and want more painful lessons.

And you have to also been able to bow.

And what my teacher always did with me when I screwed up was sit down.

Okay, what did you learn from it?

And I would tell him, and then you go, okay, now you got the lesson.

Let's move on and get back to training.

And so I did that for my students also, right?

And they were so embarrassed to tell me and I.

I let you down.

And I did this thing and I lacked integrity.

And it's like, okay, and so what did you learn?

Okay, good.

Let's get back to it.

Where were we?

Did I care?

You're not pissed.

And be pissed or of course people can be.

But one of the great gifts my teacher gave me that I started to understand over many years was simply that he loved me unconditionally.

He loved me as who I was always, from the day I walked in, all throughout the journey.

And I did mess up many times, but it was always okay, even when it wasn't okay, because it not being okay was a lesson that I needed to learn.

And you have to afford that grace to every other human being.

You know, I told my students, the kids, I'm like, if anyone judges you or says you're not good enough, I said, or gets down on you because you made a mistake, I want you to send them to me and I'm going to take them in the back room and I'm going to Put them under hot lights.

And I'm going to say, did you ever make a mistake?

Did you ever make a mistake?

Confess.

Confess.

And if they confess, then we'll know they don't have a right to judge you.

It's okay to make mistakes.

That's how we learn.

We've been offered the opportunity to make mistakes again.

It's that mirror.

I did make a mistake.

But I learned, you know, that's not who I am.

Let me get up tomorrow and try again.

And only by the course that's been presented by life will we actually learn or grow or come back to ourselves.

We need both disciple and master, walking side by side in the journey.

And so I feel that the soul is the one that doesn't know what the Master within knows.

But it was never meant for the Master within to show you everything all at once.

You actually have to become, step by step, more conscious of what the Master within knows.

And then you grow.

Your soul grows because it's taking on the awareness that's already planted.

And it's like a seed within your heart from this greater mystery, who we called the Universal Great One.

The Master within is just a droplet within the ocean of awareness.

And.

And it's in you, and you're connected to something greater.

You're in the ocean, and the ocean is in you.

So the power, understanding, wisdom of the ocean is available to you, but through this small seed that's been planted in your heart, but you didn't just get to know it right away.

You're a person, a soul.

You look out to see yourself and you believe that reflection, and that's the state of your soul at that time.

And when it's not working out in the world is not delivering it what you're looking for.

At some point, you may look within.

And then as you begin to take your illumination of who you are from that spark I'm calling the Master within, then you grow into it.

I came to my teacher as a disciple at his feet.

Teach me, Master.

I need to learn.

But the disciple, by listening and learning from the Master, became a master himself, right?

And, and.

And then was able to provide that same experience for others.

And yet, no matter where I am on the path, the self that's within me is all always greater than who I am at any given moment and connected to something even greater than that.

And so you can relax.

That was the other thing my teacher said.

Relax first, last, always.

You can relax because the journey's unfolding and it's going to unfold as it will.

And even when it seems like it wasn't supposed to go that way, it was supposed to go that way.

Now everyone says, you know, everything happens for a reason.

And so I know it's really a very arrogant statement in a way, especially when people are going through something really tough, that there's no way that we can justify or find a meaning or purpose in it.

And so what I say in is my amendment to that philosophy is I don't know if everything happens for a reason or not.

But I do know that everything happens.

And as long as it happens, I'm going to make sure it was for a reason by learning from it.

Yeah.

And this puts me in a position of trusting life that even when it's devastating and it doesn't go my way, as it has many times already, I know that though bitter though I may go through period of time of darkness, in the long run I will see into and gain something for it from it if I'm willing to stay awake and continue looking from a place of awareness.

And then I realize, okay, this life is a seasoning of our souls, right?

And I wasn't born into perfect conditions and things didn't unfold perfectly.

And even now that I quote, feel peace inside, I have no power over the actions and behaviors of other people.

If I did, the war in the Middle east would be over and there would be peace and harmony.

Everyone just do what I'm telling you.

It's my heart's desire that it be okay.

I have zero power.

So things are going to happen.

I'm part of a continuum of humanity that where we're going to suffer as we continue to try and find ourselves and lash out in anger and fear and all the other things.

The difference is I, I understand that.

And I can let life be what it is.

I can let the world be what it is.

I can let other people be who they are.

I'm here to share, but I'm not here to impose upon anyone.

Freedom is an invitation.

And if the person doesn't accept the invitation, you just simply bow.

Because they still have something to learn that will bring them to that invitation.

And it may not come through you, it may come through somewhere else and some other time, but it's always there to the one who finally comes and decides to look and to ask, you know, seek and you will find, knock and the door will be opened.

Talking about people giving away their power was, it was very interesting to me.

And he said that's a very common thing that you notice.

And then I felt like as you were talking, it almost felt obvious that it would be tied to a fear of making mistakes, as I.

I don't want to be the one who chooses because I might choose wrong.

And if I let somebody else choose, then at least it's on them, and I don't have to feel, like, personally responsible for that, you know, and so that's an avoidance and a.

And I feel like it's.

It stems from a philosophy that doesn't necessarily allow mistakes or there's a lot of judgments, a lot of negative feelings around mistakes.

And it sounds like the core philosophy of a lot of your teaching is around mistakes are.

It.

Mistakes are the way to go.

Like, learn from them, grow from them.

Like, you know, they're.

They're your teacher, and in whatever way, they may show up in your life, you know, and so is.

Is that, I guess, a.

A way that you feel like is just a common thing that you're always teaching in your school to.

To help empower people to take their power back?

Yes.

You know, absolutely.

You put it very well.

The.

Our track record as a human being.

We're conscious and aware of it, and so we're painfully aware of our mistakes.

We're also aware of the mistakes other people have done to us.

So in both cases, we're tied between two things.

One is lack of being able to forgive the way others hurt us and wrong this.

And the second is not being able to forgive ourself for the way that we've hurt other people, often just lashing out or trying to protect ourselves from the ways that we've been wounded.

So when somebody comes along and says, well, just believe in yourself.

Have confidence in yourself.

Trust yourself, the person is going to be sitting there going, you know, dude, you don't know me, but I know me.

Yeah.

And believe me, I cannot trust myself, and I do not believe in myself.

If I believe in myself, I'm.

I'm trying to believe in myself as a facade because I somehow imagine it's better to have confidence than not have confidence.

So I take on the Persona of believing myself.

One thing I notice is that the victor and the victim are both operating from the same place.

Right?

Each one has a fear that they're not good enough.

The victor compensates by, look at me.

I have another victory.

I did another thing.

I really am.

Look, look, look.

But that's why they're always looking to the next thing beyond that to accomplish and to show that, See, see, see.

We still have that core fear of, I'm really not worthy, and I'm really not good enough.

On the other side, the victim takes on.

I.

I'm not worthy and I can't believe in myself as a Persona and in their victimhood, they're afraid of who they are, so they play that role.

And often they get attention from people, et cetera.

And don't get me wrong, really horrible things happen to human beings.

I always say it's the toughest thing you could imagine is being a human being.

It's, it's really difficult.

And I do have great compassion for that.

But the point being is, until you make a lifeline back to yourself in your own heart and begin actually untrusting and following the guidance from within your own heart, which leads you to begin to trust yourself and, and to believe in yourself, because now you have a new record of actually following what it is.

You break the old habits and begin new ones, and the old ones no longer have a grip over you.

And so, for example, when I was younger, not my finest hours, I'm sorry to admit it, but then again, not sorry because I'm here to be transparent.

But for example, at hard times of my life, when I was out on the streets and homeless, I stole things from other people to get by.

Now, of course, I could carry that down the road with me as, oh, man, people don't know I'm a thief.

I can't.

But I'm so ashamed.

Honestly, I don't feel good about it.

I don't think it was right, especially now in the light of greater awareness.

But the way I look at it from what I'm sharing with you is, oh, I got to find out that I'm not a thief.

That's not me.

I got to find out that I don't want to hurt other people.

So everything that I did that was carried as a baggage of shame, I got to see, oh, it was only teaching me.

And now, for example, I would not steal for now.

I used to not be able to say no to offer of any drugs.

And, and so if somebody had something and they, they offered it, I was powerless.

I'm like, let's go.

And it got me into a lot of bad places.

So I learned that I don't want that anymore.

So there's actually no temptation now when somebody comes up and goes, hey man, I got some stuff you want, it's like, get away from me.

And it's, I'm not trying to be judgmental.

I've been there.

But it's, it's not even allure.

Because I found out that's not who I am.

So more as you build trust, you actually begin to trust yourself.

Not just by the slogan, not just by believing in yourself, but because you start being true to yourself.

How can you ask other people to trust you when you don't trust yourself?

And when you start responding to your own inwardly guided discipline.

Which means, I really don't want to do this anymore.

And I really do want to do this.

Of course you don't feel like going to the gym, okay, but go a little deeper.

It's because of how you're going to feel after and what it's going to give to you that you actually do.

So which voice are you going to follow?

When you follow the one, it's like, though I don't feel like it, I'm going to get my ass up and go to the gym anyway.

Later in the day you have built self trust and you go, I'm here for me, I'm going to do what's best for me.

And once you have that in yourself, then you're going to start having it in your relationships.

Because people will see that you're true to yourself, that you have integrity to your own values, that you are who you say you are.

So naturally they're going to begin to trust you.

Right?

But we want trust without having self trust.

Hey, come on, trust me.

Is there anything you should be more wary of than someone who comes up says, trust me, just trust me.

And and so it's, it's just building a bridge back to yourself so that you can rise up and be yourself.

And it does take time.

All the lifetime of practice and habits and psychology took you a lifetime to accumulate.

Now you're running a program wire, whereby you're answering to an inner authority.

And following that, you're no longer at the mercy of outer authorities, either other people or even your own ego and your own fears.

And you simply go and follow the guidance for a long period of time.

I would often just react to a situation so the person was an to me.

I would be an back.

But it often led to outcomes that were making my life more complicated and getting me and even damaging relationships, etc.

So I started to take a beat and go to a deeper place and see what it suggested.

Like the movie the Terminator.

You know, he goes down the scrolling list of responses and then picks, you know, fuck you, asshole.

But when you scroll down a little further, it's like, I'm sorry you feel like we're sir, have a nice day.

Now you may feel like saying the first option, but if you take a beat, you'll go, you know what?

I'm going to trust this deeper option, even though I don't feel like it.

It doesn't feel satisfying in the moment.

But what I started to notice is it's leading me to better outcomes.

I'm actually defeating my opponents without even fighting them.

It's what Bruce Lee called the art of fighting without fighting.

And, and so then you begin to trust yourself because you trust your own guidance.

But where is it that they teach you to do that?

You know, you go to school because they teach you what you didn't know.

You go, even in religion, often it's telling you what to believe and how to live your life.

In our school, even at five and six years old, I ask them these deeper questions and the answers that came out of their mouth, now, mind you, five, six, seven years old, were deeper and more wise than what our world leaders.

That's coming out of the mouth of our world leaders.

And I told those kids, I go, are you going to wisdom school?

And they go, no.

And I said, because the answers you're saying are more wise than the people about above you who are running the world.

So you need to start listening to yourself and you need to start trusting yourself.

So they gave me their answers and I would bow me.

Bowing led to them to begin to bow to themselves.

And ultimately it leads to when I'm really in trouble, I can trust myself and my own inner guidance.

We can listen to the counsel of others.

We can read a book.

Of course we should hear the teachings of masters that came before us.

But at the end of the day, who are you and what do you want to do?

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's so powerful to, to give that to somebody, to, to help them to uncover that and to.

And that's the funny thing about it too, is that a lot of it is just common sense.

And that's why a child at 5 or 6 can, can answer that and be like, hey, you know, like, I have this great feeling and it's love.

And it's all these things that are just like, it's like, hey, you know, it's just, this is common sense.

But we, we, you know, drag us through the mud, through the different books and the different countries and the different languages and all.

It gets skewed in different, many different ways and the belief systems and the agendas and the bias, you know, and then it becomes something that it's not ever meant to be.

But A kid has not gone through a lot of that, hopefully by the age of five or six, you know, to really develop a view that is so skewed like our normal one is.

And that actually leads me to one of the, like the last conversations I really wanted to make sure I touched on was, was the value systems, you know, of, of our, of our country, of our, you know, the western world, if you will.

And I was searching, you know, doing some research on you prior and looking over your website and there was like the testimonials for the girl power program that you did.

And to refresh the audience, the girl power thing was the self defense class for women.

But it's not just self defense, it's more like self empowerment as well.

And that was very important thing is that like I saw someone talk about in the comments about how powerful it was because in the modern world one of the top values is beauty for women.

It's, it's being, you know, being beautiful, being, you know, trophy wife type type thing, you know, and so it's makeup, it's this, those, those are the things that, that improve you and, and imp are the status symbols, you know, how are your nails, how's your hair, how's your this, how's your that.

It's not how strong are you, how's your integrity, you know, how much compassion do you have?

Like, those weren't the things that are necessarily lifted up in the world.

And so for me is a very important thing for us to touch on that together is, you know, the value systems that are in place don't allow these to be taught that this is not at the forefront of our education system, you know, and therefore other things have infiltrated the value systems of people that, that skew us and lead us down a path that is away from the self, you know.

Yeah, I wanted to address that in, in my school.

And again, going back to children, you go to the heart.

It's much better to be started and rooted in your ultimate goal than it is to undo the damage done and return to it, which is what most of us end up having to do.

So I, if I thought I could give them a link, a connection to their values, that it would show them what their value is as a human being.

So to go over what you said, not, not in every case, but in general, girls are look, are valued by beauty and looks.

It's a very common thing I used to say in my school, you know, you could come in and pick up this, this weight and move it over to the Side if a boy did it, they go, look at Johnny, look how strong he is.

And then you do like, you look so pretty in that dress while you're moving the thing.

So you're always looking to.

My value is in how I look or, or what my size is or what my shape is.

And that becomes, in a sense, your power.

But this to me is very foolish because it's an exterior thing that you had nothing to do with.

And to place your value as if there's something value about you because of the way that you look actually disconnects you from your value.

And then just again, in a general view, never ultimately true in all cases, but in general, boys and men are, are, are valued based on what you can do.

You know, look how fast I can run, look how much I can lift.

Look how smart I am, look at, look at how skilled I am at this thing.

And then we give them a sense of value and we value each other based on how well you do exteriorly.

But again, those were things that you were born with.

It's not necessarily connected to any values.

So you can run really fast.

You're my hero, you're my idol, but you actually are doing things that are abhorrent and leading in the wrong direction.

And again, we shouldn't be looking outside of ourself, even creating idols based on what they can do or how they look then just outside of that, because I would call those the physical values which are not the true value of a human being.

We're all have an innate worth as human beings and an innate beauty.

Like teaching the girls, I began to see my message was you are beautiful.

And maybe I thought it was a slogan in the beginning, but eventually I began to see the beauty in every girl.

They come in different shapes and sizes and different physical Personas, but there's always a beauty there if you're willing to look for it.

But in the mental side is what are your opinions, your ideas, what do you believe in?

And then when you say those things, people say, okay, you're okay, you're all right because you belong to a certain club or a certain way of thinking that become you deciding which part of the divided group do I want to be along, go along with and be accepted by?

So I just repeat all those opinions and it's like, I'm this, I'm a liberal, I'm a conservative, I'm a Democrat, I'm a Republican, etc.

But this again is just mentally created.

So what I did was not say this is what your Values are, or this is what our values are.

Instead, I asked the question, go into your heart and tell me what your values are.

And I had my students create what I call the pyramid of values that through this process of inner reflection, what are your personal values that you apply to yourself?

What are your values of relationship?

And what are your values that you'd like to see reflected in the world?

They would come up with their own pyramid.

And.

And I said, then I would say, those are your values.

And they said, yeah.

And I said, now you have to take the course to endeavor to live by them.

All right?

It's not for another person to tell you what your values is.

It's for you to decide what they are, and then to make sure that you live by them in your thoughts, words, and actions.

It will take practice, but then people will come to know your value by those values that you demonstrate.

And if they remain consistent, you end up having what we call integrity, which means you're the same when the weather is good, when the weather is bad, you're like a pine tree.

It's in the desert, it's evergreen.

In the forest, it's evergreen in the snow, it's evergreen, true to its own nature.

The outer environment doesn't change it, right?

You don't go into the room.

You know, you're the.

You're the thermostat, not the thermometer, right?

You don't go into a place and just reflect the actions and behaviors and values of people around you.

You decide what they are, and you set the temperature for the room and your life.

And what we found was so amazing as we began to share these values, which takes us beyond your opinion, takes you beyond anything that you can, quote, do that you think or look like or anything that makes you valuable or what you've accomplished or what you own.

And.

No, what are your core values?

We found that all the values know and support each other.

So now, no matter which set you pick, they end up always leading you back to the same place.

But also they connect us with each other.

When we hear each other's values and we go, oh, your highest value is love.

Mine is peace.

Then as we think, we go, well, I need to have peace to love fully.

And love actually brings me to a greater peace.

It's like all the values are codependent on each other.

It's almost as they emerge from one source.

And what's.

What's really good about that process is they don't feel artificially imposed upon.

Let me tell you what you Believe, kid.

Let me tell you what your values are.

If you don't do, though, I'm gonna hit you.

And if you do, or I'm gonna punish you, you're gonna get a timeout and all those things.

Don't get me wrong.

Parents do have to have some level of.

Of consequences and discipline.

But the point being is that they become authentic.

They become something that they chose is something that they can own because it arose from their own heart.

And they said it was important.

No one told them to make it important.

Because at the end of the day, think about it.

When you think of a person, there'll be a few things that come to your mind, you know?

And those things will be rooted in the values that they've been practicing or not practicing, you know?

And this is how we really get to know each other.

After we're done with the dazzle of what you look like, what you've accomplished, what you've acquired.

Once we get beyond the dazzle of your opinions, this is what I think we should do to establish peace in the Middle East.

And it's like, oh, it's wonderful, Amazing.

And once we get beyond those ego reflections, under that is, well, who are you really?

And what are your true values?

And most importantly, are you living by them?

Because as I always told my students, okay, I believe you.

You're a good person way deep down.

But what is this doing way deep down there?

Why don't you get it up here where we can see it?

Start speaking and acting on it.

Be the good person that you've been burying way deep down.

And you get to decide who that is and what that looks like.

And if you're wrong, then you'll learn.

It's okay.

No, you can't do kung fu without making mistakes.

I'm not good at punching yet.

I know, because that was like your third punch.

How do kids get the idea that you're supposed to be perfect at things?

The very first few times I'm horrible at this, it's like, no, you're not horrible.

You just haven't even tried yet.

So just calm down, and I'm going to take a picture of you now, and I'm going to take a picture of you in three years, and you can contrast the difference.

You're going to grow into knowing how to punch.

But you need a lot of bad punches to find out what a good punch is.

You need to lose your balance many times to find your balance.

The losing of your balance strengthens your leg until it finally, at last, the Enough strength is there to go, ah, there you are, my friend.

I'm balanced now.

I love that, I love that.

And, and with the values thing that you, you mentioned, the.

Was it values pyramid you called it?

Yeah, yeah.

So like that, that to me was so cool because it almost, it reminded me of like the hierarchy of needs, you know, and so then when you like put values are not quite needs, they're not quite the same thing.

But it's like because of what you value, you have certain needs.

If you value love, you have certain needs around love and connection and, and those types of things.

And so when you can teach someone what their needs are, who they really are, deep down, you know, it starts to unveil some of those needs that they might have.

And then that kind of goes all the way back to understanding why you're utilizing a substance, what is it doing for you?

Right?

So what need is it meeting based on what value you have at a deeper level?

Right.

And so, and so that to me is like so powerful and so cool for you to help someone get to know themselves, help them get to understand what those needs are, and then understanding that there are certain, certain things that we're doing that are coping mechanisms because those needs are not being met.

Thousand percent.

And I think when you begin to fill up with your true value, which happens not just by having values.

I said everyone does that.

A country has values, a person has values, philosophies have values, religions have values, but we often suspect when they don't live up to them that it's just hypocrisy.

And so we start to lose our faith in values.

So if you want to make your values valuable, live by them, right?

Don't just talk about what they are or put them on a shelf and go, I have these values up on my wall, but you need to go about the practice of living them day by day so they actually come to life.

They become actualized because you act on them, right?

So this, when you begin filling up with that value, it takes away your need to get it from outside of yourself.

And then what I say is this, rather than seeking happiness or seeking the world to provide you love, peace and joy would be three examples of values, kind of big league values.

Rather than looking for the world to provide it to you, you find it inside yourself and you've been expressing it.

So rather than going to world and begging for what you think, the world has to satisfy you and make you happy, and if it doesn't, then you just use more and you become Addicted to the things because you're not getting what you want.

You find it, and your life is about giving it.

And in giving it, it increases, you know, if the person notice that if a person wants more love and is very needy, they drive people away and they end up getting less love.

Yeah, but if you actually just love more and trusting that if I love more, it will multiply and increase.

Right.

So the things of the material realm, you get more when you have more.

But the things of the spiritual realm, you get more when you give more.

Yeah.

And it's a.

It's a substantial difference in.

Values grow because you're true to them and you give them and you express them, even in worldly things.

When you express your values in the work you do, your work will be more successful and stronger.

When you express your values in your relationships, you're building bridges and making strong emotional ties.

You know, when you express your values in life, you're enjoying life more.

And also when you go home at night and sit and just be quiet, you actually feel everything that you were looking for, you have in just being yourself because you were willing to be yourself.

And that self, though, is based on the realm of values, Not.

We'll never know by what we see on the surface.

That's one of the reasons why we have so much distrust of other human beings.

Because everyone's putting on a mask so they look successful, they look confident, they look like they know what they're saying.

And then all of a sudden later, we're so shocked to discover that behind that there's all this deception and manipulation and trickery.

But if you find it in yourself, you won't have to chase after even those people anymore.

Yeah.

Begin to take the mask off when.

When those needs are no longer unmet and the.

And you can feel safe to make mistakes and be yourself.

And you're connected to that inner awareness, you know, the.

The master within.

Yeah, absolutely.

This is absolutely amazing.

Amazing concepts.

Like, I.

Frustrates me a little bit.

I'm compassionate about the fact that this is not being taught in schools or anything to anybody.

You know what I mean?

Like, and I love that.

That martial arts is an avenue for people to learn that through, you know, specifically kung fu, being.

Being an awesome one, you know, And I haven't found that enough in my own personal life, which is why when I found it myself, you know, through books and through my own, you know, philosophy and lessons of life, you know, my own contemplation, contemplative practices and things, then it's just like I, I, I want everybody to have this.

And I, that's that thing with that you said too.

It's like, that's that even that is like almost ego.

And it's like I can't force anybody to have it.

I can just be, you know, a, a shining light and be myself and, and be attached to my values and let my values unfold.

And, and as corny as it sounds, be the change you want to see in the world because that is when you are being peace, harmony, love, joy, and you're putting those out into the world.

That's when all of a sudden you start to create, be a creator of the world that you want to live in.

Yeah.

And you know, a cynical world takes these beautiful ideas that are so life giving and nurturing and then throws this tag corny and almost makes us afraid or ashamed to own it.

When I was 20, I actually put that quote be the change you want to see in the world from Gandhi on my wall.

And it took me on a journey into what that quote actually means.

Right.

But, and so I find myself, I think kung fu gave me the strength because I knew I was really good at kung fu.

I could weather people calling me corny or you know, oh, don't you know, you're talking about love and peace.

Yeah, that's going to work.

Get back to the real world.

Yeah.

You know, but I love what John Lennon said, which is reality leaves a lot to the imagination, you know, and, and so I'm not intimidated to actually take those higher values and begin to live by them.

And then being true to myself is what allows me to see and perceive other people who are not being true to themselves.

And rather than just be angry or dismissive of them, I can continue to bring myself, in case it rings the signal in them that no, I want that too, but you can only feed the person who's hungry.

And you edit a lot because it doesn't matter if people aren't seeking their own freedom.

The book Erich Fromm is called Escape from Freedom and it was very impactful to me because it reveals this idea that everyone says they're looking for freedom, but actually they're running away from it.

They're trying to give their power away to politicians, to religious leaders, to society and, and education, outer control politics because they want somebody else to provide the freedom for them.

And so they fail to actually just step into the freedom that is in a sense your God given right as a human being to have.

And then in terms of sharing it, the Thing that becomes, suppresses us is, oh, they're gonna think I'm this or I'm so full of myself.

So this becomes kind of a false humility that robs the world of the gift of what you have to offer.

You know, one of the themes of my dojo was give the gift of yourself.

It's going to be different in all of us.

But you are here to give that.

And it doesn't matter that people, oh, you think you're all that you have something to say.

Oh, you think you're wise and think of Buddha and Jesus.

In one case, Buddha is saying, I have the answer to end all suffering, and Jesus is saying, I am the light of the world.

You know, follow me.

So were they egomaniacs or were they actually the most humblest of souls who had come to an awareness or realization that then they felt responsible?

To mirror to others and even once mirrored doesn't mean people will get it, but it just means it's there for you to look into and find yourself in it if you choose.

You know, if you've been in Plato's cave and you've been dancing to shadows and then you see the light within, and even better, you see a light that leads to a whole nother world, if you, if you're a responsible person, you'll come back.

And I've learned, don't go directly up to people and tell them about that other world, but say from a distance, like throw a few rocks and say.

And then see who responds to it.

Because people say they want the truth, but as you know, Jack Nicholson said, you want the truth, you can't handle the truth.

They don't really want it.

And they often are very angry at the person who gives it to them.

Yeah, yeah, facts.

And so that's a perfect segue.

And so we'll finish up here with the fact that you have been on a journey of self expression as well.

You said you were recently kind of getting out in Portugal before our interview and doing some speaking.

And now in Spain, the goal is to kind of, you know, become a little bit of a, I don't know if recluse, hermit mode.

Right, right.

A little bit, you know, get kind of into yourself and, and get some books out and so talk to us about some of the stuff you're working on and what you got, what you got coming out soon potentially and you know, where your journey's headed.

Yeah, so there's several things that, that I'm doing now that I would consider my.

A continuation of my Life's work.

At some point, I wanted to step beyond the 10,000 hours that it takes to learn kung fu.

And with a lot of instruction about how to kick someone in the balls and, and which, don't get me wrong, can be important too, but to actually get to the deeper heart of the message that, that I found inside of me, inside the teaching of my school.

And as you said, it's not.

It can be through music, it can be through whatever discipline you choose, whatever mathematics.

Anything is universal.

And they all lead to this greater connectedness.

But I do a online program called Inner Awareness Mastery.

So I have a group of people who meet me online every month where I give assignments.

And it's just a constant pushing into and unveiling into this greater awareness.

I like to say it's a.

A safe zone, a judgment free zone.

And the person's allowed to explore and actually unfold their journey organically from within themselves rather than having a certain pathway be imposed upon them.

It's the pathway of, of Inner Awareness Mastery is I am so I am west.

And we're always answering that question.

And then my first book that I'm ready to publish, I'm polishing it right now, is called the Master Path.

And it's simply about going into the temple of your own heart, awakening the Master within, becoming a disciple of the Master within, finding your connection to the universal Great One and then walking it out.

And not only living a life of blessing, but a life that blesses others in the process.

It's always symbiotic.

You know, when you bless yourself, you bless others because you're part of that community.

And when you bless yourself, you bless others because you have more to offer that community.

And so that's the basic concept of the book.

And then I'm excited to follow up with, with more books because I learned a lot.

So that means I have more things to share.

I feel responsible to share the things that I've learned from my teacher.

And right now I feel the best way to do that is through books.

I spent 40 years teaching live in Action, and now I want to sit and write books.

And even books, novels, stories, poetry, children's books that reflect these, these greater lessons is, is my version of sharing the gift of myself, which I always encourage my students to do.

You know, find the thing you're passionate about and, and that you're good at and that's connected to something you care about in the world and make a life out of it, and that's a good life, you know, Absolutely.

I love that.

And thank you.

Thank you for sharing the gift of yourself on the podcast with me.

With me personally, even.

You know, we've had two conversations before this.

You know, each time just.

Just right on cue with just the things that need to be said, the things that you.

You wish you'd hear more of in the real world.

You know, just the.

Just the.

The gratefulness and the.

The humility and the wisdom.

You know, you've.

You've.

You've clearly put in the work to have earned that, and you've clearly also.

That's an active thing, but you've clearly also done the work of.

To let go and allow that, I think both being extremely powerful.

So thank you.

And thank you also, Todd.

I've learned so much from you, and I admire and respect who you are and your courage to share the gift of yourself and to create a space of a evolving potential, because this is what I feel humanity most needs is to be able to grow into this untapped potential within us as human beings.

And you're claiming the victory by creating the space, singing out the message and bring, giving people a platform to share their stories and their message.

And the beauty is the.

The beauty is it comes through us, each unique, uniquely through our own soul.

When it looks different and yet only when seen can we begin to see how it all dovetails together.

And so it's been a great blessing to meet you, and I'd love to continue our conversations in the future.

Same.

And.

And what another great.

See, you're always throwing out these great metaphors.

See the fact that it's like, yeah, I want to bring on a bunch of different people on the podcast, I want to get a bunch of different perspectives because.

Because there is no right or wrong answer.

And ultimately, over time, whether I'm talking to a kung fu master or a performance coach or an entrepreneur, you know, if.

If they're doing things right, if they're finding success and peace within themselves, they're probably going to be saying pretty similar things.

It's all probably going to dovetail together at the end, you know, so.

So, yeah.

So thank you again, and it's been a pleasure.

And yes, when you write the book, I will read it and I will most likely be inviting you back on because I'd love to hear more of your stuff.

All right, sounds great.

Tog and ciao.

This will say here.

Thank you.

Bye.