Greetings, friends. My name is Jess McLean, and I'm here to provide you with some blueprints

of disruption. This weekly podcast is dedicated to amplifying the work of activists, examining

power structures, and sharing the success stories from the grassroots. Through these discussions,

we hope to provide folks with the tools and the inspiration they need to start to dismantle

capitalism, decolonize our spaces, and bring about the political revolution that we know

we need. Welcome, gentlemen. Could you please introduce yourself? My name's Lorne. I live

in Hamilton, Ontario. I'm a member of ACORN. I've been a member for about just over a year.

And I'm experiencing a renovation myself and here to help talk about it. You're currently

experiencing one? Yeah, I'm in like, I'm fighting a renovation right now, yeah. Okay, we will

certainly get to that, Lorne. Thank you. Evan, welcome. Hi. Happy Friday, guys. I'm Evan.

I've been a member of Ottawa ACORN for the past couple of years. Really happy to be here on

Blueprints of Disruption and really excited to be talking about, well, Hamilton's recent

victory in winning that anti-renovation bylaw and the momentum that we're seeing for this

sort of solution. to the affordability crisis all across Ontario.

Just to start with the reason we're all here today is the new report that you guys released.

Can you tell us a little bit about what it was about and maybe some background on what renovation

is? Yeah, so a run-of-victim is when a tenant is served an N13 notice by their landlord.

And in the N13 notice, the landlord is claiming that they're going to have to do significant

renovations and that the tenant has to leave in order to do whatever work they do. Basically

just a terrible notice for people to receive and usually a real shock. Because essentially

it's an eviction notice, right? That's right. You know no different whether they're renovating

the unit or they just need you to get the hell out. You have a serious crisis on your hand

at that point. That's right. Yeah. are in a lot of shock and they're not sure what to do

at that point once they've received this Renoviction Notice. A lot of people have never even heard

of a Renoviction Notice, let alone what N13 means and often are confused as to what their

rights are or what they're going to do. A lot of people even leave without even thinking

about it just out of fear, thinking that they have no... way to fight it or no rights or

anything.

Yeah, and can you tell us a bit about, I guess, what were some of the findings in the report?

Yeah, I guess in the new report they found that they've really increased, you know, probably

tripled or even more, especially in big cities like Toronto and Hamilton. Hamilton... It's

just, you know, out of control Toronto. It's well over 1,000 and Hamilton were probably

well over 500 rent evictions. And yeah, it was a pretty scary report for renters, you know,

across Canada. I wanna know. Evan, you've been organizing with Acorn for a couple of years,

so you've been talking to lots of tenants, you are a renter. Did the results surprise you

or were they validating to what you had already been, well, in Lauren's case, experiencing

firsthand or hearing a lot about? Because like, just glossing over in some places, it went

up 545% for... N13s and then N12s were going up 160% over the, I think, 2021, 2022 period.

That shocked me to read, but I don't do tenant organizing. Yeah. So, yeah, the numbers, I

think, are actually quite instructive. So, overall, there were, across Ontario, there was a total

of 20,541 N12s and N13s filed between 2017. in 2021. Wherever we see these increases, it's

important to know that a lot of run evictions take place, even without N13s or N12s being

filed, which means that the growth of run evictions is actually greater. We've provided a conservative

estimate, and the conservative estimate is already alarming enough. 545% increase in the number

of N13s in Ottawa. And that makes Ottawa number three in the province. There is also a 158%

increase in the number of N12s filed between 2017 and 2021.

ACORN has been organizing against renovations in Manor Village, in De L'Eglise, that's in

Vanier, and on Zetablan. We've recently, ACOR members who were fighting there in, on, Des

Tablons Vanier did succeed in winning the right to stay and preventing the renovations, well,

their renovations from taking place. But that was not before a number of other long-term

residents of those affordable houses had been evicted because of the intimidation tactics

of. the landlords who were seeking or the developers who were seeking to evict their tenants so

that they could demolish and replace that housing. Sorry, so validating is not the sort of term

I'm looking for. I know I've just rambled. I think these numbers are persuasive for everybody

because I think... everybody's aware that we are in an affordability crisis and the rent

addictions are a big contributor to that affordability crisis because when a rent when a person is

displaced from a unit the landlord then has free rein to spike the rent to essentially

whatever they want and as opposed to the guidelines which are in place for tenants who do not vacate

their unit. So as long as there is a financial incentive, and there is, to undertake these

rent evictions, they're going to continue, and that's going, and the numbers should be alarming

that for everybody and anybody who's interested in living in an affordable housing situation,

we need to take action because it's gonna get worse before it gets better if we do not have

laws in place to prevent these.

There was one stat that stood out to me talking about affordability, which was talking about

affordability being defined, of course, as rent that's no more than 30% of anyone's income.

It used to be 20% back in the day. They raised it to 30. It's an arbitrary number as it is,

but that in both Toronto and Ottawa, there were zero units on the market that met that. description

for the bottom 20% of earners, which is a massive thing. So, you know, when we're talking about

renovations, it's, it goes far beyond, you know, having to, to move from, from a place where,

where you're living. It means maybe having to leave your neighborhood, having to leave your

community that you know, cause you're not going to be able to find anything. within that community.

And you know, I mean, just moving alone is stressful enough. It's as if buying is one of the most

stressful events in someone's life, let alone losing your community. So, you know, you were

just talking about what action can be taken about this. I know Hamilton has been taking

action. Sure. Yeah. And actually, it's okay if I just add something to what Evan was saying.

The recent reinviction bylaws in Hamilton.

you know, the numbers are really higher too, because we don't really see everything in the

report was based on stuff that was filed, you know, and with LDB, I believe, right? And one

of the big crisis is a lot of lack of shelter spaces too. So the huge increase on the shelter

system and homelessness itself is something that often, you know, isn't, you know, really

talked about as much with the whole. renovation situation, that crisis and stuff, right? But

yeah, just on January, I guess it was 17th, the city of Hamilton, after a lot of work passed

this, the new, it's basically like an anti-renovation bylaw. It's the renovation and, oh, I forget

the rest of it. the other name of it, but yeah, they, through several years of work with Acorn

and the several city councilors, they were able to finally work out an actual bylaw with a

lot of details that are gonna, be able to hold landlords accountable for, hopefully preventing

all this displacement, of people, right? I know Acorn's been working on it since 2019. And

so hopefully once it kicks in, it'll protect a lot of different, all sorts of renters. Landlords

are gonna have to apply for license in order to evict somebody. And within seven days. of

issuing the M13, which right now there's obviously no timeline. They don't have to ask the city

for permission. And so as well in the new bylaw, landlords are going to have to show a lot much

more proof, building permits. They're going to have to have an engineer's report. And they're

going to have to really prove to the city that, and it's a lot of new staff that's going to

be hired to oversee it, they're going to have to prove that the units need to be vacant.

And which right now there's just really no oversight. It's kind of whatever the landlord says, the

landlord basically gets away with, right? And... They have to, within the new bylaw starting

in 2025, because they don't start till January of next year, which is kind of a drag. That's

a long time to wait. It is, like folks like myself and a lot of other people, we're all

caught in this limbo gray area where we still are continuing to suffer all the tactics where

they try to get you out. And what- Once the bylaws pass, they're going to also have to,

there's going to be actual, they're going to have to provide the tenants with accommodations

and accommodations, not just like a hotel room, but accommodations that is similar to their

unit. Comparable living situation while these renovations are taking place. And then tenants

are going to be allowed to go back to their unit and at least have that, you know, the

first right of refusal, which is actually technically supposed to happen now, but it doesn't happen.

And then if they don't comply with all this stuff, and they decide that they're going to

go rogue and disobey the bylaw, then there's going to be daily fines. So each day that they've...

I guess, displace somebody, there's going to be a fine for each day. And at this point,

the State of Hamilton and their staff are still trying to basically, I think, come to a good

amount for that fine. As someone who's been going through this, I hope it's the higher

end of an amount to, you know, really, really make, take away the incentive. to basically

throw people out.

I do worry about seeing a surge in rent evictions in the time between now and when that bylaw

comes in that does concern me. And I'm glad, you know, I'm sure Acorn, you'll have a lot

of work on your hands to help fight as many of those as possible. One thing that I was

just talking with a tenant organizer here in Toronto. And one thing that he pointed out

to me that I didn't know was that in terms of bylaw enforcement officers, like the rent safe

inspectors, there's only 10 of them for the whole city. So oftentimes there's not nearly

enough enforcement of the bylaws. So I guess I wanted to ask about is anything, is there

a similar situation in Hamilton, Ottawa, and is that being, is that being Yeah. Raised as

a concern. Yeah, actually it is a huge issue. Policy is policy, but only if it's enforced.

Right now, property standards in Hamilton is kind of a hit and miss. And they really aren't

enough, I think, officers to enforce the current bylaws. And so I don't know. I'm sure Evan

has some experience in what's happening in Ottawa, too. Right, well, we have a related campaign

to this rent addiction bylaw is also seeking landlord licensing so that we do have proactive

enforcement of property standards. As you brought up, you had the case of just 10 staff assigned

to this rent safe program, right? Obviously, it's insufficient. In the case of Ottawa, we

have bylaw standards. and which, you know, compel landlords to, you know, have certain plans

in place for managing complaints about pests or repairs, et cetera. However, the burden

for the enforcement really does fall on the tenants. You know, they have to, and they have

to demonstrate that they have corresponded with the landlord making requests before they can,

like, escalate it to having... bylaw actually conduct an investigation and so forth. So we've

been calling for essentially a system which would license landlords and again, subject

them to escalating fines for non-compliance because we do have fines in place, but obviously

they're too low, they're just seen as the cost of doing business. So they're swallowed or

absorbed because they feel it's better than the alternative. But, you know, more broadly,

any other business has to have a license, right, to make sure it's following standards. Restaurants,

stores, gyms, all these places have to have a license in place, and usually the city is

responsible for conducting inspections. It's observed that this wouldn't apply to landlords.

And, you know, to sort of bring a few things together, I wanted to really point out about

evictions, is that almost one in four, so it's about 22 percent of all landlords doing evictions

in Ontario, or run evictions in Ontario, are hiding behind numbered companies. So these

are not even necessarily huge, big conglomerates. This is usually people who just see housing

as a financial sort of investment to bet on and make a thing, make a quick profit. So they

pool whatever money they have to buy a house, maybe an affordable housing house, so they

can flip it and quickly turn it into something higher profit. But they're hiding behind a

number of companies. So you already don't know what an M-13 or an M-12 is, and you're hit

with this document. And the poor, it's not even something like OPG Holdings or Timber Creek,

who you can maybe identify who's hitting you with this eviction notice. It's just a sequence

of numbers and then Ontario Incorporated. And you know, if we, if landlords are in the business

of providing housing, then they shouldn't be doing shady practices. No other business is

so immune. to shady practices. You know, you need a license even to busk on the street.

But you can, you can turn your, you can pool your money and turn yourself into a nine-member

company and then evict an entire community of people. That's not, that's not clean business.

Random and anecdote here, but I did get kicked off of city hall should have become a number

of busking during the New York College in Toronto. That's the that's the trick.

If I could add to one thing too that Evan just said actually two quick things like in my own

personal situation when Evan mentions the numbered companies. Now my landlords. They're not. Actually,

I'm very fortunate that I actually do know the names of them, but they make it very confusing.

There's the owners who are one company, and then there's a management company, and then

there's another management company that actually has the name on the rent eviction. And me and

my fellow neighbors who have also received the N13s, we're kind of at a loss. We're like,

who exactly are we filling out this? you know, who are we fighting back against? Who do we

put on our landlord tenant board claims to fight back with things like T6s with repairs? And

for us, it's been a really confusing. In fact, my neighbor just had to, they were lucky they

had their hearing adjourned because they were given the wrong information as to who they

were actually filing against. And it really is, in my situation, It's like a management

racket that is basically, it just assists the landlord in hiding from accountability when

it comes to the LTB and even with the city. We had issues where with my unit, that the

number of the building was listed differently with the city than it was with my actual lease

and different address with the. like the electric company and things like this. So definitely,

you know, there's a lot of, I call it almost deception too as well. I wanna hit on a few

points, like I think that Evan brought up, one about the licensing and how absurd it is. It

ties into also the amount of enforcement that goes around it. How could you possibly regulate

or enforce something if you don't have an accurate? reflection on its numbers or its impact, where

they are and who they are. It becomes impossible, but we know we're ruled by landlords. That's

why this is so difficult. But I also want to ask Evan, you were talking about in Ottawa,

some folks that were successful in resisting a rent eviction without a bylaw. because that

is the case for most people in Ontario still and even Hamilton until then. Can you share

with us how they did that? Was it by legal means? Was there a ruling or was it just pressure?

Yeah, those are good questions. I'll pull up the exact facts just so that I'm certain of

what I'm delivering you. But it's important to note that actually at least in our experience,

at least in Acorns experience. People usually get to stay in their houses, usually successfully

resist renovations, not because of the help of the landlord tenant board. It's instead

because of the pressure and the publicity that organizing with ACORN and allies is usually

able to achieve and just stay in. So it is possible in our experience, you know, the best way to

resist it is with Oregon is staying. You generally have the most to gain the longer you stay.

Even if you do end up bought out, they'll probably you'll get a lot more of a buyout if you stay

longer than if, you know, go right away. And going to the landlord-tenant board is always

going to take forever and obviously landlords have more resources than your typical tenant,

you know, to wage these sorts of legal battles. So yeah, I'll take up, I'll start with Zeper-Blanc

in Vagnier. So that's actually the part of Ottawa where we have our main office in Acorn. In

March 2021, tenants living in two buildings on D'etat Blanc in Venier received knocks on

their doors from their new landlords, OPG Holdings, who demanded inspections of their unit and

that they sign N11s to voluntarily vacate. So half of the tenants left. They did not understand

or it wasn't clear to them, or they just didn't really feel they had the resources to fight.

they legally still actually had the right to, you know, stay and contest it and, you know,

attend a hearing at least with the LTB. After those tenants left, OPG Holdings threatened

the remaining tenants to evict them by the end of August for major renovations. And it was

again, sort of knocks on the doors, demanding inspections and things like that, which, you

know, is not, well, it's violating, but it's not even above board legally. So Acorn, essentially

a number of those tenants became leaders of the local Acorn chapter. They got in touch

with Acorn and we held demonstrations on Des Pablins. We connected this to preserve, fighting

to save affordable housing because We're losing in Ottawa 31 units of affordable housing for

every new unit of affordable housing built, which means we'd have to build 31 times faster

to just break even. So we were able to rally the support of the community to attend big

demonstrations, to demand meetings with the OPG holdings so that we could, you know. discussed

this. And eventually, you know, OPG holdings, I guess, retreated. But it was collective action

and public pressure and just the determination of tenants to not be bullied out of their places

of living that kept them there. This is a little bit close in Vannier. And this is kind of interesting

because of the difference between N11s and N12s and N13s. But basically there's the N13 which

is where it's your order to vacate to conduct renovations and then there are N12s or N11s

which I think N11s. And the difference is N11s. a direct tenant to vacate, but not for a renovation,

but so that the landlord can have a family member move in their place. We had, so we had this

landlord was trying to sell a complex of affordable housing. It's easier to sell a property when

it's all vacancies. So they, issued basically the family eviction notice to everybody in

the complex, as if they were going to like move in every one of their cousins to, yeah, yeah.

And then, when that obviously didn't work, they then change it to end 13s, which just shows

you the room for abuse in this sort of model that we have. But so many of the tenants did

stay and they joined Acorn, same thing, organized direct actions. We get CBC, CTV, like news

people out there. And just like a lot of these developers, they're just like looking, they're

not looking for anything difficult, right? They're looking, they treat financial, their housing

as a financial investment. They're looking to get in quick buck. If it becomes more of a

headache, just because the tenants are getting involved. they are city councilors and other

people who can, you know, put pressure on them, they'll generally back off. But it does take

like a lot of work for people who are in those types of vulnerable situations. I'll come up

with Manor Village, which is in another suburb of Ottawa. The community was living in renting

townhouses, which were between 1100, 1300 a month. Many of the tenants had been there for

more than 20 years. So the property manager, Smart Living Properties, issued N13 eviction

notices to Manor Village tenants for renovations because they were hoping to turn these homes

into high-end student housing and triple the rent. So Acorn did organize with the tenants.

At first, Smart Living refused to meet with the tenants as a group. Tenants were also confronted

with purposeful neglect of maintenance, so refusing to do repairs so that people will give up and

just leave. Constant door knocking from Smart Living agents and were being told verbally

that their right to return to their units after renovations were done would not be honored

and that tenants didn't stand a chance. So Smart Living tried to escalate the process by offering

bios that were barely more than the legal minimum of three months rent. But Acorn members held

strong and resisted, knowing that they have the right to defend their homes and that the

offers are only going to increase or you're gonna be able to stay. So because Acorn member

organized and stayed united, offers gradually increased to $70,000 for a buyout in the end.

So this all came to a head when a couple of weeks before Manor Village tenants and Smart

Living schedule hearing at the landlord-tenant board. Smart Living finally caved to the pressure

created by the Acorn Actions and they rescinded their eviction notices to let tenants stay

in their home. So a lot of people did get to stay in these townhouses, but nearly a hundred

households left during the process. And it kind of goes back to what Santiago was saying about

how when you're evicting people it's not just, it's stressful enough to make someone move,

but you're also destroying these communities, right? Like these people have been here for

more than 20 years. You're relocating all these people. And you know, you think of how disruptive

that is for kids who have to change schools, for people to change doctors and other healthcare

providers. You know, there's all sorts of multiplying effects, compounding effects. And so it's unfortunately

again, like.

We can win lots of victories, but there's a failure of the people who should be responsible

when it falls to Acorn and tenant organizing to make shady businesses behave properly. Absolutely.

That's a lot of effort that some people don't have. One of the maddening parts about it,

because I was reading one of the articles, I think produced because of Acorn Ottawa's work.

It came out of the tenant rights council that I think Evan was involved with there, where

you folks surveyed and then had a town hall and really got a lot of input from tenants

on their main concerns, what they were facing to get empirical data as well as lived experience.

And one of the things that came out of that was pretty obvious was there were 60% of folks

were waiting for repairs. with the same landlords that are just so determined to renovate and

upgrade these units. So I don't know. I think we've danced around it, but we've not explicitly

said like this has zero to do with bettering the units. It is entirely a cash grab and using

loopholes within our system to jack up rent as much as they can.

It's a lucrative cash grab too. Yeah, like these people don't do repairs, right? We know they

don't do repairs. On my building, right now I pay $814. And some of the people that had,

I guess they basically got kind of bullied out from, you know, lack of repairs, pass control,

cleanliness, just a ton of stuff, you know, all the usual harassment. that you read about

and those units have been rented for 15, $1,600. My landlord told me that they could easily

rent my unit for 1,600 and basically told me I should just shut up about complaining about

repairs and the cleanliness and should be just thankful I'm paying 800. And actually in the

area of Hamilton I live in, it's a dangerous neighborhood. You know, I mean, it's a little

community. It's called Barton Village. But, you know, what I was paying before, say, five

years ago, it was, you know, it even felt like a lot for that neighborhood, you know, because

you're putting up with a lot of crime and stuff like that as well. And so now the bottom, like,

you know, the bottom number is about 1600 for like, say, the roughest area in the city in

the same building where they're not, the hallways are still gross and they're still pest. They

never properly address issues. So even the people that are paying 15 and 1600, they're dealing

with the same. terrible level of maintenance that I'm dealing with at $814. So yeah, so

that's double. That's, you know, they've literally doubling the rents. And I wouldn't be surprised

if in a year from now, you know, who knows what happens to me there, but they'll try to charge

1800. I've got a good view of the escarpment. And you know, it's a nice little apartment,

but you know. That's terrible. And it's gouging on a level that I've never seen before. I've

been personally hounding the federal government to actually do something about this kind of

gouging, because this gouging is not allowed in just about anything. I mean, even groceries,

not necessarily all of them have been getting there, but it only seems to be happening, doubling

and tripling within the... the rental market, you know.

Yeah, it's a particularly gross form of exploitation when people take essential goods and services

that at the end of the day, we need a roof over our head, we need somewhere to go to sleep.

It's not optional whether or not we rent. We have to do it. So we have to pay whatever we

have to pay for it. and so they can charge, they can keep upping the price and it's up

until we literally cannot afford it anymore. Because I know in Hamilton I talk to a lot

of people that don't even have enough money for rent. It's not a question of, oh, I've

got only 100 or 200 for groceries. It's like I'm short 200 for rent. You've got people putting

these. this extra amount on their credit cards or where they have to try to you know get help

from relatives and It's it's just unprecedented

Yeah, I remember back in 2016 when I first moved to the neighbourhood where I live, Parkdale

in Toronto, I was splitting a rent, a one bedroom, it was $1200 a month. And I remember I used

to be able to spend only $80 every two weeks on groceries. And that was enough for me to

get by. I was good. Nowadays, you know, I'm in a different... apartment in Parkdale, but

it's 2100 and gross. God, 80 can be like two, three meals nowadays. It's insane how much

the unaffordability has grown. Lauren, I wanted to ask a bit more about, you know, the use

your current faddle with your reinviction.

I had been pushing for some, you know, mild to small repairs really. My landlord served

me the N13 and told me I had till January 31st of 2024 to be gone. So they basically give

me three months notice. And on my, in fact, mine was listed as a It was listed on the N-13

as a demo eviction, but it's actually really a rent eviction. And there's really no need

for them to, there's just no grounds for demolishing my unit or the other people that they've served

the N-13s to. And so the first thing, in fact, I joined Acorn, quite a bit before I was served

by N13 because I kind of knew it was coming. I could tell by the harassment, the abuse,

the just a lack of repairs, the attitude just that they were giving me. I knew it was coming.

So learning about Acorn through the news and stuff, I joined and of course met Olivia who

has been a great help to me and just all the other people that joined. And... So I basically

refused to leave because the N13 notice is not something you don't have to move out. That's

one big advice I'd give to everybody is just kind of disregard it in a sense and seek consultation,

either join ACORN.

living in poverty that ACORN will give them, offer advice and offer free clinics to come

and learn how to fight it. And then, so then I went to the Hamilton Legal Clinic and I got

myself a lawyer there, because actually I'm on ODSP, because I unfortunately have a type

of cancer. And so... I was fortunate to be in a low-income bracket to actually receive the

legal clinic help. And I believe legal clinics exist across different big cities, right? I'm

not entirely sure whether every city has it or not, but hopefully they're working on that.

And so with that help, it gave me, of course, a little bit of hope that... that it wasn't

the end of the world yet. And there's like right now, anyone that gets an N13 or any of these

notices, an LTB hearing, a landlord tenant board hearing isn't even gonna happen for, you know,

seven, eight months, even a year. As far as I know, some people, it's been over a year,

right? So, but yeah, since then, after they served me the N13, the level of harassment

increased. And my landlord has resulted, resorted to, they won't even clean the halls sometimes.

I've had flooding and leaking in my unit eight times in one year. I've had to have property

standards chase them down, I think four or five times now. I've done a lot of communicating

with my local MP, I live in Ward 3 of Hamilton, and our local MP in Ward 3 is kind of the,

I guess one of the champions of the new bylaw. So I've had some support from them and lots

of great support from Acorn.

And that's, oh, and I want to add too that through ACORN, being a member, I was able to have ACORN

apply for the Tenant Defense Fund, which was created by the city of Hamilton. I forget exactly

when, but I guess maybe about a year or something like that. And that for me is a real life saving,

a real lifesaver to be lucky enough to get that money to fight.

My N13 notice. As I'm listening to Lauren's story of neglect within the unit and as a form

of harassment, but also just being a shitty landlord, I wonder if like a sustained period

of that and lack of mitigation then works to their advantage, to the landlord's advantage.

And then they can say, oh, look at all these things that are wrong with the unit. I have

to get in there. and completely fix it all and, you know, got to get an engineer to say that

it requires someone to actually move out so that you could do these rather than just accommodate

for them. But not only does it make your living conditions unbearable, that's the idea, but

it kind of reinforces their case, right? That they need to do repairs, but it's only because

of their own neglect. But that won't matter to the landlord tenant board, you know, if

you're displaying a unit that needs... an overhaul, then it doesn't really matter whose fault it

is at that point. It's, but it all falls on the tennis. Not with the new bylaw. That's

exactly what they've done in my situation. And you know, I wasn't wise to it at first. I was

just kind of naive. I want this fixed, you know, you guys got to fix this. Even there's things

I let slide a bit, you know, trying, you end up trying to, you know, like everybody, you're

just like, look, I want to reduce all this harassment. I just want it to stop. And so, okay, well,

I'll let this slide, or maybe you take care of some things yourself, if they're small enough.

But the mental toll it's had on me, and I know my fellow tenants, and when I go to Acorn meetings

here in Hamilton, I'm sure Evan has experienced this, that you sit and speak with your fellow

members and you're just, You're brought to tears by their terrible stories of harassment, and

they range from pests to illegal entries, which is a big problem, actually, in my situation.

And just about anybody that's facing a nasty landlord, you feel like your privacy has been

stolen from you. You don't know when they're going to come in, and sometimes it's really

hard to. prove this. I bought a camera and you know it's the mental toll is incredible and

it's under looked at. I know that it's something that I speak out very loudly about with politicians

on all levels and you know I've had them send a crisis people to my door because they're

so concerned about the kind of abuse I've suffered and you know. Yeah, so I'm sure Evan has a

few stories about that. That's so validating, Lorne. When I used to rent in Toronto, I had

a landlord that would not give notice for replacing the filter. Like seemingly mundane things.

I don't know whether they weren't organized or whether it was a harassment thing, but I

had... real anxieties about people coming into my space. I had injuries that left me unable

to walk at points. So like I was really vulnerable when like two men came into my unit that I

did not know. And really nobody took those concerns seriously. Like that was so minor. Like, oh,

what do you need notice for? We're just doing this. We're just doing that. But yeah, you

have no sanctity of your own safe space at all. It's just another reminder that you live under

somebody's thumb. Right? That you live in someone else's land, under someone else's rules, and

it's very degrading to... And then to ask them to fix things that should already be fixed.

Right? You try to make yourself small and to avoid that. And all these people having keys

to your unit, we've had... I've probably had, you know, 30 different people come into my

unit because they keep... A lot of guys quit because there's people that quit... these management

companies because they actually have morals. You mean they're not also good employers? No,

they're terrible. They're terrible. My actual landlord is, it's almost every couple months

it's a different repair guy. And some of them actually, I generally myself, you know, try

to work with the repair guys because they're in the middle. They're just, you know, they're

generally not the one that's purposely trying to harass you. But it starts to add up. We've

been through nine managers in my building in about five years. And so you don't even get

to the point where you don't even know who you speak to. You just might have a different person.

And those people, they have keys. Then, you know, my landlord was doing fake fire inspections.

One year or in a period of, I think it was 28 months, 26 months or 20. They wanted in my

unit around 50 something times. I worked it out, it was approximately like every 17 days.

It was just a scale of harassment. One city worker said it was one of the worst they'd

heard of as far as the illegal entries go. Before we run out of time, I wanna talk about two

possible strategies. Both of you have spoken about the detriment of people not knowing what

their rights are, or not having the energy, capacity, resources to assert those rights,

to secure them. So I imagine a lot of your work is, or should be, focused on know your rights

type campaigns, events, organizing, like not every building is organized, not every tenant

is organized. yet. So, but in the meantime, like you've got a run eviction law coming in

Hamilton that people need to know about and otherwise find chapters or the means to resist.

So can you tell us kind of briefly what tactics you use to get those rights out there to folks

and point them in a direction they can go before it happens, right before they're hit with those.

and 13s that can be so devastating? Promoting Know Your Rights is pretty important. We've

definitely held a couple of workshops in the past year specifically on how to hold your

landlord accountable for repairs. Basically how to act on your right, how to apply your

right, your existing rights as they exist, limited as they are, for enforcement of, you know.

property and standards repairs, pest control, stuff like that. And we have websites, we have

QR codes, everybody should go to our website and sign all our petitions. But one thing I

would say is that I think is very helpful is for anybody who is concerned about ever receiving

M13s who has any sort of concern about their landlord and doesn't know what to do. This

might not get you very far, but it's better than nothing. And even if it doesn't get you

very far, it, I think, contributes to a climate or an atmosphere which would be more advantageous

for everybody to have a stronger awareness of tenant rights. is call your city councillor,

your NPP, your NP, even if they are people who you politically do not agree with or do, even

if you think they will not be on your side, it's important for this to be registered. Because

like I said, there were something like only 17 and 13s filed for Manor Village and there

were a hundred households which were vacated. So the fact that things aren't even, like the

fact that like the numbers are shocking, which means it's happening to so many people and

people aren't talking about it, at least to the people who should be responsible for it.

And so even if you're MPP or whoever is not someone who's gonna generally be on your side,

it's important that their office hears about it. It's important that gets registered and.

Because that makes it potentially something which you can then get more attention for if

you're trying to build publicity and public pressure. That's something that could potentially

attract more attention from something like CTV or CDC. And if you can get that sort of pressure,

that shapes the way people approach politics and that shapes how office holders... You know,

the officeholders very much think in terms of their voters as people who, they are generally

a minority, especially at the municipal and provincial levels, because most people don't

vote. So they're very often not thinking of tenants as voters. They're thinking about,

or at least tenants who are struggling with authoritability as voters. So, but. because

their stories just aren't told. Like that's why I think it's so important that Lauren and

you told your stories. But just as another sort of, I may be off track here again, in terms

of knowing people's rights. I think the simplest thing for me to emphasize, hearing from what

I just heard from you too, is even if you don't really think that maybe a rent eviction bylaw

is going to fix the affordability crisis. You know what it might stop is this is just crime.

This is crime. Entering illegally, getting in people's spaces, harassing them is crime. And

the fact that it's the most powerful people doing it to the people who are like the least

advantaged to resist it, makes it all the more distasteful to society at large. So even if

you're not someone who might be a blueprint of destruction, regular listener, maybe you

are someone who might be more inclined to read the sun or whatever, and you don't necessarily

believe in these types of policies, well, maybe you'd at least like to take action against

not doing repairs and subjecting people to harassment because those are crimes and those cost us,

right? If you're putting people, if you're not doing repairs and subjecting people to illness,

therefore, who pays for that? All of us, right? the landlord is off-shoring or is inflicting

these costs on the people. So what I really like to just sort of say is, you know, it's

not just about tenants. It's a question of like, do we want to live into the society where,

why is there this double standard? No other, in any other case, breaking and entering, sniffing

around people's places and harassing them is something which people need to be held accountable

for. Why are landlords and property managers suddenly immune from this? Yeah, and also if

I could add just one quickly, what, you know, everything Evan said there about the organizing

and all, that is really the most important thing. And like he said, you know, people have difficulties

understanding politics. A lot of people don't pay attention. I recommend people, you know,

learn a little bit, at least about their local councillor and their beliefs. And if it doesn't

seem like they're helping out, you know, to look for a counselor that does, and if there's

no acorn group in your city, you know, consider being the one that starts it and contact big

cities like Hamilton, Ottawa, and try to get ahold of folks like Evan and Olivia and...

you know, see if they can, because with the internet, you know, they can give a lot of

advice on how to start, start the, you know, a grassroots organization, because that's what

it's about. Because when, and when you have a tenants organization in a building, even

on the books now, it's illegal for the landlord to try to stop you from meeting. They can get,

I think, like a 50 or 100, a big fine. And so there, there is some really good things you

can do. to get yourself set up to fight, you know? And, or even if you don't even have problems

with your landlord, I would recommend people start a tenant association in their building,

even if it's just for smaller issues and something big comes up and you've got people that can

support you and help you, you know, even emotionally and it makes a big difference, a huge, huge

difference, you know? I mean, hell, even just the barbecues that can come from that. Yeah,

it's great. I want to watch some hockey games with her or something. Who knows? It goes a

long way. With Acorn myself, I live alone. I've been in a lot of isolation. I live alone in

Hamilton. And Acorn has actually been a really great thing to do, to get out and meet people

and understand something I didn't know anything about before. I was a lifelong songwriter and

musician. And you know, I... I didn't understand much about organized groups and advocates and

stuff. And it's very fascinating. And you end up helping other people in the process once

you learn about it. And it's just good for, like Evan said, for our country, kind of a

country do we wanna live in, a country that's full of greed from every aspect of life. And

the only way we're gonna get out of fighting back against the big... greedy entities is

to organize. And as Canadians in the past, we've kind of been a little bit slow on that because,

you know, for many years, Canada, I guess had it kind of good in comparison to a lot of other

nations, you know. When I started my question way back when, I hinted that there were perhaps

two strategies I wanted to talk about, and both of you have kind of set me up to ask the second

one because, Evan, you talked... Well, both of you talked about the power imbalance and

Lauren, you're driving home the importance of tenant organizing into, you know, tenant unions.

And we had Ricardo Trenjen on not that long ago, he wrote the book, The Tenant Class and

Keeter. And Santiago is holding up a copy of the book, of course. And he's been doing his

homework. He leaves us off and we didn't really get to talk about it. So I just wanted to ask

you folks about the idea of then securing collective bargaining rights or other rights akin to union

rights for tenant unions. Because Evan, you know, you talked about the efforts that go

in, even once you have the tenant union and you're organized and you've got resources and

the know how, it's a lot of energy and you're like really just pleading in the end. Like

there's not a lot of. legal structure there and whatnot. And I want to just know if you

thought, let's just imagine it's possible, okay? Would that be a really huge tool for you? Would

you like to daydream about what you would do with collective bargaining rights as a tenant

group? I mean, that definitely would be better than a daydream.

That's certainly something I have that sounds too good to be true. So I don't think I've

ever even entertained thinking that far ahead. To be honest, it sounds amazing, right? But

like, um, I've read, I've read, uh, that book as well, the tenant class. I, I thought it

was, it was interesting. Um, so yeah, it's, it's a great question, but I think for me,

it goes back to the same sort of. principle as I was saying before is I don't think that

this business, if this business exists of landlords providing housing, then they should be subject

to the same rules as any other business, that standards should be set, that they shouldn't

be allowed to offload their costs onto the public. They should do business cleanly, and I think

clean businesses are businesses, or actually this is just the standard we have for business

generally. is that businesses are supposed to respect the collective bargaining rights of

their employees, and they actually can get in trouble for violating the terms of those collective

bargaining, some of those collective bargaining rights. So I think that would be pretty advantageous.

I think that would be, in those terms, I think that would be strong.

In terms of organizing, you know, collective bargaining rights though, like, hmm. It's a

really interesting question. What do you think, Lauren? Lauren Ruffin Well, yeah. Tanisha Jones

I think it's going to chew on that for a bit. Lauren Ruffin Really, you know, anything is

possible. And, you know, in Canada, and so many places around the world, you know, people are...

will never cease to surprise you what they're capable of. And as powerful as governments

are and large corporations, you know, you only have to look at Acorn, you know, if we just

looked at Acorn itself, you know, just a few years ago, most people had never heard of it.

And I think now there's like way over 200,000 members across Canada, and I'm not like well

versed in, you know, some of the numbers that. some of the other organizers are. I'm more

or less just a member that does a little extra, trying to extra contribute a bit, you know?

But, you know, when you look at the short time that Acorn has been kind of at this in the

Hamilton or some of the other cities, it's amazing what they've achieved. And if you look back

a few years ago, a lot of people might've been kind of pessimistic about that. and say, well,

you can't do that. You're not going to go up against all these huge corporations and entities

that often, you know, right now in Ontario with the Ford government, he's not exactly helping

people on our level and renters. So you know, it's very possible. You know, last night in

the President of the United States' speech, for the first time I heard a leader mention

about high rents. And you know, it's something I've, you know, we don't hear enough from Justin

Trudeau. Um, you know, so, you know, it's possible. And I think that Canadians are waking up to

the fact that, that we've been, um, kind of screwed for, for too long. And now we're desperate

and we're running with our tails between our legs to try to catch up to how badly we've

been gouged. And I think with, with the large organizations starting up with Acorn and actually

a lot of support from other. advocate groups. I was a delegate at the recent bylaw day down

at City Hall in Hamilton. One of the things that really impressed me was the amount of

people from different organizations, essentially allies of ACORN and people that were there

to support, even though they had their own little issues. So not necessarily... housing advocates.

That's right. Yeah. I mean, there's people that are from Black Lives Matter that are, you know,

take part in supporting, you know, different, and I think one is called ACTO. And then you've

got the disability justice folks that, you know, are just essential to these types of fights.

And, you know, a lot of these, you know, the legal, like my... the lady that's representing

me, she received, her and a number of other lawyers received a grant from one of the Toronto

Raptors in order to, I forget how much it was, but it allowed them to do this kind of legal

work without, you know, trying to find placement, you know, and worry about, you know, getting

income, you know, to fight for justice and equality and human rights and stuff like that. You know,

so it's all really coming together. And, um, you know, it's great with a podcast like yourself,

you know, um, and what you guys do to, to help illuminate this, this fight, you know, get

everyone thinking on the same level, you know, I, it's anything's possible and who knows what

kind of bargaining power we're going to have, right? You know, I know that Acorn is starting

to work on the grocery fight and, um, protesting against these. You know, ruthless grocery owners.

No one even knows what they're called and yet they're like grocery bearings, I guess. And

I think it's going to have an impact. I really think when you protest out front of a local

fresh co or whoever is, you know, not paying their employees, but gouging everybody, it's

going to, you know, no one wants to be embarrassed in front of their community and it will get,

it gets in the newspapers because it's becoming trendy for for CBC, CTV, and Global City TV

in Toronto, they're starting to cover these things. And, you know, people need to continue

to pressure the press to support, you know, this whole collective fight against greed,

and it's even beyond housing, you know? There's a lot of inequalities in the workforce and

everything too, so I think anything's possible. Thank you. Is there anything that we didn't

bring up? Or Santiago, did you have any questions that we've missed? Not so much questions, more

maybe, I'll take a 30 second statement about how, I think one of the things that's important

is not just, obviously we're constantly being placed on the defensive, resisting evictions,

trying to fight against, I think it's important to dream about what could be possible because

we need to be actively on the offensive against this fight back because as much as we're talking

about the legality of things, a lot of this, the most fucked up things that landlords get

away with is perfectly legal. You might have a sympathetic city council or a mayor or something

at one moment in time take away the rights, you know. So it's important to, I think that

the work that organizations such as yours, such as Acorn does is really important because it

maintains that constant struggle, not just periodically. And I think that that's important because if

someone's not struggling today, they might be struggling tomorrow and then they might just

need to call up Acorn to help them out, right? Well, hopefully they're already in Acorn when

that happens.

We will link everybody to all of your stuff. Like people will not have trouble finding you.

We're just going to ask a quick favor from all the blueprints of disruption listeners. This

is your good deed. Your good. We have a call to action. It's a super simple one. Okay. I

would like to say that collecting signatures outside of like grocery stores, that's a good

place to like talk with people and meet people. But I would say seriously. If you, whether

you're a renter or not, and as limited as this is, every single day that you, or every third

day, but maybe just do it, wait for Tuesday, because it's almost the weekend, or I don't

know when this is releasing, but whatever. Call your MP, your MPP, and your city councilor

and mayor, and like, and just say, listen. I want you to adopt that anti-rent eviction bylaw

that Hamilton adopted. And if you don't do it, you're not going to have my support. And you

know what? Since we're dreaming big, also ask them to give the renters collective bargaining.

Put it in their head, man. If every single one of your listeners puts in that, just once a

week to their elected officials, even if they're people who are against them, then all of the

memes like... give it to them even more, you know what I'm saying? But that's anyhow, that's

all I'm saying. It'll really help the struggle forward and it's a small thing that any of

you can do. Next. In our city here actually, I know I put a lot of pressure on some of the

councillors that might've been on the fence about the bylaw and I told them my story very

passionately in an email and one councillor emailed me back and they said, you know, he's

going to vote for this now. And so it does make a difference, even if they may share a different

view. If there's one more thing I just could point out, and I keep it real quick, is that

with the non-market housing. And I know that Acorn is really pushing for more social housing

and nonprofit housing. And that also is a big answer. Not the. the final answer, but it's

something that's really gonna help reduce and give some relief to people if there's more

social housing and more non-profit housing. And I think everybody needs to think a lot

more about that in their daily lives. and realize that all the monopolization of the large corporations

is working against us and to push their local MPs, like Evan says, to look into these types

of solutions too. Basically, it's something that I think you're going to see a lot more

of, going back to the way things used to be, where the government used to invest. you know,

social housing and stuff. Or we could smash capitalism, start again. That's a good idea.

But we- A lot for that. You see, we dream big on the show here, we do. Thank you so much

for joining us. That was a great discussion. I think a lot of people might've heard of renovictions,

but they can't listen to this episode now without knowing fully what they are and now how to

fight back against them. Thank you so much, gentlemen. Thank you, Justin. Thank you, Santiago.

That is a wrap on another episode of Blueprints of Disruption. Thank you for joining us. Also,

a very big thank you to the producer of our show, Santiago Julio Quintero. Blueprints of

Disruption is an independent production operated cooperatively. You can follow us on Twitter

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