[00:00:00] Trisha: I would like to acknowledge the Dharawal people, the Aboriginal people of Australia, whose country I live and work on. I would like to pay my respects to their elders, past, present, and emerging, and thank them for sharing their cultural knowledge and awareness with us.

[00:00:14] Trisha: Hi there everyone. I'm Trisha Carter, an organizational psychologist and explorer of cultural intelligence. I'm on a quest to discover what enables us to see things from different perspectives, especially different cultural perspectives, and why sometimes it's easier than others to experience those moments of awareness, the shifts in thinking.

[00:01:01] Trisha: As those of you have listened to some of the earlier episodes will be aware cultural intelligence, CQ, the capability to be effective in situations of diversity, is made up of four areas. Motivational, the drive. Cognitive, the knowledge. Metacognitive, the strategy. And behavioral, the action. And all four of these capabilities can help us operate well in situations of diversity or in dealing with different cultures.

[00:01:27] Trisha: In this podcast, we're focusing more on the metacognitive aspect, thinking about our thinking, and that is CQ strategy. Today's guest is an old friend and colleague. I've known Sharon for 15 years and deeply admired her for the work that she's done across a range of organizations. She's worked for the Australian government.

[00:01:49] Trisha: She's worked for not for profit organizations and some very big name corporate groups, and also in her own consultancy. She's been working to enhance inclusion and increase levels of indigenous employment. And building cultural competency for all she is of Kamilaroi and Scottish descent and has recently worked alongside others seeking to achieve social change to launch the social value collective.

[00:02:17] Trisha: And so we're going to unpack a lot of that today. Welcome Sharon Gray.

[00:02:21] Sharon: Thank you, Trish. Didn't realise it was 15 years. Oh

[00:02:25] Trisha: It is. It is because I went back and was thinking, where was it? And unpacked it. Yeah, I know it feels like it's flown by, doesn't it?

[00:02:32] Sharon: Yeah,

[00:02:33] Trisha: Sharon, I really want to talk about the work that you're doing, the community you're creating, the skills that you've built over the years and how you help people shift in their thinking and to see different perspectives, both for, non Indigenous Australians working with Indigenous Australians and the Indigenous people themselves.

[00:02:50] Trisha: But first, the questions we ask all our guests. So Sharon, what is a culture, other than the culture you grew up in, that you have learned to love and appreciate?

[00:02:59] Sharon: that's a challenging one. , cause I, I love my culture. , but, and, and the fact that I've grown up, both, in, you know, an Australian, Indigenous Australian, context. But also to having a, non Indigenous, family as well. So I've had the privilege of two worlds. So I often refer to the fact that I can walk in two worlds.

[00:03:22] Sharon: And, so, yeah, so I do pay a lot of respect to my Scottish, background. And, And there's a lot of synergy between Scottish and my Indigenous inheritance as well. So, and that synergy of the two cultures I've been able to bring in to create who I am today. So, my other culture, I suppose that I, have a lot of respect for, , is my, Scottish heritage.

[00:03:48] Trisha: That's wonderful. And can you tell me about a time when you might've experienced the shift, when you suddenly became aware of a new perspective?

[00:03:56] Sharon: Working in the construction industry in particular, It's how do we work with the communities to create cultural change? You know, there's no point in having the infrastructure that we have with, without having First Nations people involved in that process. So when I first started working in the construction industry, It was more than just around, um, you know, getting more Indigenous people into jobs.

[00:04:24] Sharon: It was holistically the impact of the infrastructure that your company's building. What impact is that going to have on the community? And how do we get the community involved? So that's where all of a sudden it becomes much bigger than just one thing. It becomes this holistic approach. framework where you're looking at, and I, and I put it down to four, four key areas and, and the framework in which I work is, I look at it from a cultural competency perspective.

[00:04:55] Sharon: Uh, you've got to have that cultural perspective, your community engagement, following cultural protocols and applying that within the communities in which you're working. how are you going to employ and train, the community? And then the other thing is around supplier diversity.

[00:05:14] Sharon: How do we,

[00:05:15] Sharon: have Indigenous businesses and social enterprises as part of.

[00:05:19] Sharon: You know, a company supply chain and, you know, and then that goes back to what I call, you know, what we refer to as generational wealth and that creation. So, it, it's a much bigger picture. So, you know, we see the impact of employment. But when you see a whole community movement happening in those four areas all at once, it's amazing.

[00:05:43] Sharon: Yeah, it's more than a light bulb moment. It's like turning the cities on and off. Yeah, the lights on in the city. Yeah.

[00:05:50] Trisha: And so when you first came, I'm imagining the shift was you were coming from other work where you had been more focused on building cultural competency within an organization. And then you gained this shift to see that much broader perspective and the impact on the wider community as well.

[00:06:07] Trisha: Was that the sort of shift that you experienced?

[00:06:10] Sharon: Yes. And it, and it's, you know, there's no point in building the infrastructure if only a few are going to benefit from it. So then when you look at it, that's where the whole concept of social value comes into. So it's more than just, the infrastructure that we build, it's the community that's got to interact with it, how they're going to interact with it, how we're going to acknowledge First Nations people, how we're going to educate people, how do we not lose, that culture, but at the same time, creating, opportunities, social and economic, opportunities back onto our communities, to bring them on the journey with us

[00:06:50] Sharon: and to be part of.

[00:06:52] Sharon: The design, part of the infrastructure development, and then also to moving forward, how a community interacts with that, that infrastructure.

[00:07:02] Trisha: And I'm thinking, you know, there are some people who probably come to the job and they think, I'm building a bridge. You know, and, and you've got this far greater vision that is, really impacting so much more. I mean, somebody might just see themselves as I'm laying concrete, you know, but then the next, there's that saying about the people building the cathedral, you know, and your vision is so much bigger because you've sort of shifted it out.

[00:07:27] Trisha: Do you think, did it take, you know, a little while to get that shift or was it sort of instantaneous and you suddenly saw the possibilities?

[00:07:34] Sharon: Look, I think, for myself, like I look in my early days and I felt like I did a lot of observation. And, and I could see the opportunity, but I didn't know how to articulate it. And then, and then the processes. And it's like you've got this whole thing in front of you. You know, I quite often liken the world to a chocolate cake.

[00:07:56] Sharon: As much as you want to sit down and you want to eat the whole lot at once and consume, you can't do it. It makes you sick, right? As beautiful and yummy as, as you want that chocolate cake in your, you know, in your taste buds and in your tummy. It needs to be cut into bite size, amounts so that it can be digestible.

[00:08:15] Sharon: So that's the analogy that I actually use. But it's not only just about me, absorbing all of that. It's also bringing others along on the journey. So acknowledging that as one person, or, you know, as one group of people, you actually need to, be able to collaborate with a myriad of people to make things move and happen.

[00:08:37] Sharon: So it's almost like building your allies or champions around you. So that light bulb that you might have, you want to create that same light bulb in others.

[00:08:46] Trisha: Exactly. And so I guess for much of the episodes that I've been speaking to people about, we've often been talking about people on an individual level and we've been talking about shifting people from, you know, one, understanding to another or through one experience to another and helping people to see differently.

[00:09:05] Trisha: And so maybe we just come back to that for a moment because you are working with, you know, non Indigenous Australians and one of your responsibilities is helping them to understand and to see, to see the bigger picture, and maybe to make a shift themselves and they're thinking about, indigenous culture, maybe, you know, maybe some unlearning that people have to make.

I know you've been doing a lot of that work for many years. How do you help people shift in their thinking around indigenous culture and, you know, the things that they might need to learn or unlearn?

[00:09:37] Sharon: That's a really, it's a big one because it's more than just. cultural training, you know, everyone can go off and do cultural training. It doesn't mean that you're going to be culturally competent and that you're going to apply what you've learned.

[00:09:48] Sharon: And the other thing is for non Indigenous people, just because you've done that one course, whether it be online or face to face, doesn't mean that you are culturally competent.

[00:09:58] Trisha: I know. I know. Yeah.

[00:10:00] Sharon: So these are some of the challenges that you've got. And the way that I talk to my team, it's almost like our job is to hold someone's hand and walk with them and help them see what we see.

[00:10:11] Sharon: With that is, you know, working side by side and sharing that knowledge, as you're working on a, on a piece of work, and then, you know, and inputting, you know, your, Indigenous knowledge, but then as you're doing that, you're also explaining how and why it's important, but also to, when you're working with people, they all of a sudden start to appreciate that because they go, oh, okay, they're looking at it quite differently.

[00:10:42] Sharon: But also too, it's a two way street. So, as much as, you know, someone might be, you know, my team, people that I work with are learning from me, I'm also equally learning from them. So, you know, you mentioned, about, oh, well, you know, we're just building a bridge. The first thing that I go is, well, where is the bridge going to be built?

[00:11:03] Sharon: Whose country are we building it on? Who do I need to talk to to let them know that this bridge is being built? And then how do we get our people in, or the local people in, to actually help build that bridge? Because at the end of the day, I mean, I drive around the city or any parts of this country and I see things and I, you know, and I'll be in the car or travelling and I'll go, well, see that bridge there? I built that,

[00:11:29] Sharon: I didn't actually built it, But this is the impact that it has. I had an involvement in that and that can be shared with others. So when you're, you know, and you're a local person and that's the community and that's your community and then you're driving across that bridge, You know, mum and dad or uncle or whoever, or auntie are going to say, I built that bridge, so there's a sense of pride that goes with it.

[00:11:55] Sharon: But there might be something significant about that bridge as well. You know, why is that land so special? How do we acknowledge that bridge? You know, we don't want it to just be this ugly concrete bridge. We want it to be something significant so that other people appreciate it from another perspective.

[00:12:12] Sharon: Not because it's, created a shortcut or we can cross that river. It's also around, well, this is whose country it is, and it might have certain design elements on it. There might be some artwork on it, which then informs, you know, people will be driving and going, Oh, that looks pretty, or that looks nice, I wonder what that means.

[00:12:33] Sharon: Or you're standing at the train station and there's, you know, it's called Gadigal Station, and you sort of think, Well, what does that mean? And then all of a sudden there's a signage there that actually says what it is. So for me, it's educating people around placemaking, and creating a new sense of placemaking in today's context.

[00:12:54] Sharon: And we do that collaboratively with our peers. And with our communities.

[00:12:59] Trisha: I love that vision. And with those communities, you're also often bringing opportunity. And so there is the opportunity for, you know, development of skills development of businesses. You know, to, to use different suppliers who, who might be, First Nations people. So there, there's a lot of, I, I think sometimes perhaps you have to work with them as well in terms of, you know, just the normal aspects in terms of people understanding how your organization works and the expectations that are on them, to work in that way as well.

[00:13:31] Trisha: So, you know, what are the sort of the shifts, I guess, that they need to think that they might need to learn about to come and work, with the way that you're working?

[00:13:39] Sharon: so a lot of the work that we do, we look at a concept, we use a concept called local content. So, where possible and more than possible, our goal is to have 70 to 90 percent, local content. So that means that we're trying to employ. people from the local community, as well as engage, local, businesses as well.

[00:14:02] Sharon: So with that is, that's where the community engagement comes in where you talk to various people within the community. And through that, it's a series of conversations where you're basically saying, you know, This is who the company that I work for, who they are, this is what we're doing, this is why we're doing it.

[00:14:22] Sharon: And then at the same time, a lot of the time the communities already know what projects are coming up, and they're already very, very well versed in it. So then it's, opening a door and allowing those conversations to come through. And sometimes. these conversations just basically start off with picking the phone up, having a conversation, organizing a formal meeting, and sometimes a non formal meeting where you're seriously turning up with a cake. Having a cup of tea and a conversation and because when someone like myself does it or someone from my team, we're actually connecting with others. So sometimes we might know the community, sometimes we may not.

[00:15:09] Sharon: But upon having those discussions, right from the early stages of those, those, and I'll call it a yarn, we introduce ourselves and go, Oh, where are you from?

[00:15:20] Sharon: Who's your mob? Oh, right, you must be related to so and so and so and so, and it's like, yeah, yeah, I am, or I'm not, or yes, I do know so and so. And so once you make those connections, that's, that's the key. And so we can go and have a conversation, and then we learn about what's happening. So we hear about what's happening in the community.

[00:15:41] Sharon: We hear about, there's, you know, opportunities to engage with, the local school. The local school has a school based apprenticeship program. We might hear that there's services that support that. We'll hear about, What the community are doing and how highly involved or not involved they are within the community.

[00:16:00] Sharon: We will also hear about businesses that we didn't even know existed that can also assist with, you know, certain you know, scopes of work. So there's all these conversations that come out of that. But also too, there's things that where we also hear, you know, some of the social issues and so we, we take that on board as well.

[00:16:22] Sharon: So then when we're looking at how we're going to engage and work together, that is led by the community, not by us. So then it helps us put together, suitable programs where we work in collaboration with the local community. So whether that be a school based apprenticeship program, could be a pre employment program, or it could be just general recruitment where we're looking for someone to come in and, you know, do some, and it's not just coming in and doing, what do you call it, early, entry you know, level entry jobs. It's, you know, we're looking at the whole skill set, of people , and what roles they would be suitable for.

[00:17:03] Trisha: It sounds a lot like there's, the consultation is key and to do that you need to be able to, yes, communicate and build connections as you've described, but also there's a heck of a lot of listening there, um, and there's a lot of sort of picking the information out of what you're hearing.

[00:17:22] Sharon: Yes.

[00:17:23] Trisha: On a recent episode, we spoke with Joanna Sell and she talks about storytelling, but she also emphasized story listening.

[00:17:30] Trisha: And the fact that, you know, we're listening to stories and we're taking things from them. And it sounds like, you know, you, your team, your people really need that ability to listen and that ability to build trust so that people will actually tell you this stuff as well. Because you're not just going to necessarily tell any old person who turns up with a cake.

[00:17:49] Sharon: no. no. And, and so in, in my language, in Kamilaroi language, I use, The word Winangar Guru and Winangar Guru, and I say this to people all the time, means to listen deeply, go slowly and respect everything. , so every, every traditional group across Australia has a word, that refers back to respecting, to respect.

[00:18:14] Sharon: And, and, and the concept of deep listening and that whole concept of deep listening is around listening. And sometimes, you know, we have also the saying is that listen with your eyes. Because, and that's your observation. You don't necessarily have to talk to have a conversation. And it's sometimes when, especially when you've been taken out on country, and people are showing you around on country, you don't necessarily have to talk.

[00:18:42] Sharon: Because what they want you to do is to listen deeply and that's that whole solace of feel it,

[00:18:48] Sharon: feeling. So, that's what that means.

[00:18:52] Trisha: that's brilliant. There's, yeah, I think I'd have to do a lot of unlearning there and, and learn to shut up and listen more.

[00:18:59] Sharon: Oh, no, you, you don't, but yeah, yes.

[00:19:01] Trisha: No, no, I have a tendency to talk.

[00:19:05] Sharon: Oh, we all like a yarn,, but yeah, yes,

[00:19:07] Trisha: Yeah, when I think about, um, the work that you've done at individual levels, and then organizational levels, um, some of that, that is really important in Australia is known as a RAP and a reconciliation action plan.

[00:19:22] Trisha: And, um, that's something, you know, in talking to other, I work a lot with American and some other organizations globally. And there's not a concept as widespread, I think, in other countries. of the RAP. So can you tell me a little bit about the RAPs that you've worked with organizations and, and how you get organizations to, to recognize the need, to take it on board, to really, to make it meaningful and not just a thing that sits on the website and,

[00:19:54] Trisha: you know, doesn't really shift anybody.

[00:19:56] Sharon: The first thing, I mean, reconciliation action plan, is, is really your, is the company's strategy on how they're going to work in this space. It's not about, you know, your aspirations. It's around what it is that you want to, want to achieve and the direction, um, that the company needs to go in and wants to go in. down the line in

[00:20:19] Sharon: so Reconciliation Action Plan isn't just, you know, this pretty little document with, you know, beautiful artwork, uh, with photographs and, you know, positioning, your corporate social responsibility and all this, lovely work that you're doing. And then, then it just sits there. It is. It, and it is supposed to be your corporate strategy.

[00:20:39] Sharon: So, so when you look at it, you've got your actions, your, your deliverables, you've got who's responsible for it, and you've got your timeline.

[00:20:48] Trisha: Mm hmm.

[00:20:49] Sharon: So, you know, any business, you need to have strategies, you need to have your policies in place, and this is how a RAP should be treated. So in, many of the companies that I've worked, in, and especially the one that I work in now, our stretch RAP is our corporate strategy.

[00:21:06] Sharon: So, I haven't written a strategy that goes with it because, When you look at it, there's already a number of strategies there. There's a strategy for employment. There's a strategy for procurement. There's a strategy for community engagement. There's a cultural training plan. All of this is embedded, in the RAP.

[00:21:26] Sharon: And what it does, it encourages the business to have a look at the bite sized chunks. So the whole chocolate cake that I talked about is what can we achieve and realistically achieve. And some of the issues that some companies have is they go in there and they want to consume that chocolate cake all at once.

[00:21:46] Sharon: And it's like, well, no, you've got to actually do it bite sizes. And that's why Reconciliation Australia has the four levels. of the reconciliation plans. So going from a reflect, innovate, stretch and elevate. And they, they refer to it, and we refer to it as, your, journey of reconciliation.

[00:22:08] Sharon: But what you're doing is you're looking at what are the opportunities that you can provide inside of your business, to First Nations people. And that's what you're looking at. So you start to build the foundations, what is it that you need to do? And the first thing that you need to look at is the cultural competency of the business.

[00:22:27] Sharon: How am I going to put together a training plan that I get to, provide those, uh, you know, you start to build that cultural competency in the build, business. Then the next stage is, what can be done To demonstrate, so then you start to get that buy in, and it could be, things, you know, really simple things around having, an employment strategy for Indigenous.

[00:22:52] Sharon: I mean, you've got one for women, you've got one for, all your priority job seekers, why don't we have one for Indigenous? So you do this, and for me, a RAP is part of what your business acumen should be, and it's about being inclusive, but what it also outlines is the timeline in which you're going to do it.

[00:23:12] Sharon: The other thing is, the column that says responsibility. When you look at that column, and this is what I say to people, is that if something hasn't been achieved, don't look at the Aboriginal person in the room. As if to blame them, have a look at your own self and what did you do or not do to contribute to help make that happen or not happen.

[00:23:35] Sharon: Because it's everyone's journey and that's why it's called reconciliation. So RAP needs to be treated as a company's corporate strategy of how they're going to engage and employ and create social economic opportunities for Aboriginal people.

[00:23:51] Trisha: So I'm thinking about the cultural intelligence model, which has those elements of strategy and behavior, but I think there's also this element of drive, which is like your motivation and your energy. And so how does it give the energy? How does it give the inspiration and the, you know, that,

[00:24:09] Sharon: So it's a bit like, My early days, you know, as a young person working with non Indigenous people, um, and just rolling the sleeves up and, and doing the work alongside of someone, you start to change people's attitudes because they sort of go, Oh, my preconceived idea.

[00:24:28] Sharon: I didn't touch. I thought your mob were lazy. I didn't know that you were educated. I didn't know that you had this lived experience. I didn't know about this. So all of a sudden. people's minds start to open. But then what happens is when they start to interact with, with community, have the opportunity of walking on country.

[00:24:47] Sharon: And then this is the, the, one of the advantages of working in construction is that we engage with, the traditional owners who then take the walk on our own project site to tell us. Why is this special? I mean, everywhere you build in this country is special. But This is why it's culturally significant to this particular group of people.

[00:25:09] Sharon: And then through that whole concept of Winangar Guru, of just that deep listening and going slowly and respecting everything, that light bulb moment starts to happen. But with that too, is when a project, um, you know, they might set a target, you know, particular targets. And then when they start to achieve them and go, Oh, Oh, that's actually really good.

[00:25:34] Sharon: And then all of a sudden, you know, and this is the other thing with your RAP, you have a RAP working group and the company that I work in at the moment, we've got RAP working groups at not just the corporate level. There's one in each of our business units. And then the GMs and the operational managers from each of those business units attend the corporate RAP meeting and they're sharing their experiences that they've had.

[00:26:02] Sharon: And then all of a sudden you've got, you know, a group of men and women sort of like, I use the analogy of throwing a chip at a seagull where, they're actually competing with each other and going, Oh, well, look, this is what we did on our project.

[00:26:14] Sharon: And this is how we engage with the community. And then, then there'll be other people, other teams, well, , they'll actually pick the phone up and go, How did you do that? So what we're actually doing through this process is, , you spoke about storytelling. Well, we're allowing our GMs and, operational managers to do the storytelling, doing the show off dance, and going, well, this is what we did.

[00:26:38] Sharon: And this, you know, we achieved this because we did this. But it happens step by step. And I always say, don't set a target that you can't achieve. Always look at it as being realistic. Even if it's 1%, 2%, they might look small. But then, your overall goal is to create that traction.

[00:26:59] Sharon: And then what happens is, All of a sudden, things just start to happen organically because it becomes business as usual. So, it's not new knowledge, to people. And then it's like, okay, we did that here. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. Let's take those learnings and let's take it to the next level.

[00:27:20] Sharon: And that's the process of your RAP as well because your RAP encourages you to go through these different levels and to challenge the business. And you're also pushing the mindset of others as well. And you're still going to have people who will be a little bit resistant to change. I think that's just human nature.

[00:27:42] Sharon: But overall, people can't deny when they're looking at. You know, especially in construction, you're working with a bunch of engineers and they love stats. So, you throw stats up on the screen and they go, Oh, well, well, I thought we were doing better than that. And it's like, and then they do a deeper dive and realize, Oh, actually, we're not doing really well.

[00:28:02] Sharon: And so, but those stats also, um, help inform people like myself, because then I know, I know I need to put my energy over here and help this group of people out. These, this group is fine, and then it just helps, it helps educate people. But then, I'm not the only messenger. My team aren't the only messenger.

[00:28:23] Sharon: We've got a group of people who've become cultural champions who are driving this, um, and which is really important when you're working with your commercial team, and your contracts team, to make sure that we have, Indigenous businesses as part of our supply chain. Because there's, you know, and you've got to really tap in, with the decision makers, the people that will open the door.

[00:28:47] Trisha: This is really encouraging. It's inspiring to see, you know, the committee process, the champion process, your team, everybody working together to sort of, um, both tell the stories. enter into Winangar Guru and have that sense of reflection of how we're doing. Do we get that? Yeah, we did. Okay, what do we do next?

[00:29:07] Trisha: So there is that process sort of built in that that would lead to both the CQ drive and the CQ strategy, that ability to shift and reflect, which is, you know, the cultural competencies, the way that I'm thinking through things. I, I want to take us to the work that you're doing now, um, in terms of the new work that you shared recently on LinkedIn about the social value collective, because to be honest, I didn't completely understand it, but it caught my attention and lifted me up with some inspiration.

[00:29:38] Trisha: So I'd love to know just a little bit more about it. If you can tell us

[00:29:41] Sharon: Social value, really what we're looking at is, and this is the thing, not many people know what it is, and they think of the word value and they think, oh, it's, it's my own personal value or. Um, it's the values that I hold, but, but it's more than that. And it's a bit like what I said earlier, is that there's no point in building, and only a small, handful of people benefit, , from, The social and economic opportunities that, that are there.

[00:30:10] Sharon: Uh, so what we, we're doing is how do we encourage and get other people involved, into the building and construction of the piece of work that, you know, the infrastructure building. And, uh, so that's where, You know, you look at, I used the word, priority job seekers before.

[00:30:31] Sharon: And so how do we get more women involved on projects? How do we get more women involved, um, in the construction industry where traditionally, that hasn't been a thought. It has been a thought, but really hasn't been a thought. How do we get more women into non traditional roles? You know, suddenly looking around on a project site and seeing that there's no, Indigenous engineers.

[00:30:54] Sharon: Where are they? So then, you know, that's where you step back and you look at what can we do to make it, make a change there. What can we do to support, That local content, how do we support, , you know, our migrants and refugees, people with disability. So it's, around that whole inclusive model, of bringing people in on the journey, but also to providing opportunities that are life changing to them.

[00:31:20] Sharon: And from where I sit within side of the business, you see the impact. And I know the impact of my salary back on to my family. I know the impact that it has, on me. The support that I've been able to provide my family, and the opportunities that, provides.

[00:31:38] Sharon: Now, if you've got, um, a young mum returning to work or looking for employment because she wants, you know, better opportunities for her children, that's, that's life changing.

[00:31:48] Trisha: Mm hmm.

[00:31:49] Sharon: And this is what social value is about, is Well, we've given them a, it's more than just being given a job, and that they've built the bridge that they can stand back and go to their children and to the family. Well, I built that. It's more around, creating a more, and it's, It's not and it's more of a equal playing ground as well. It's not just a massive corporate organization coming in reaping all the financial benefits. It's how does everyone benefit from from that? So everyone should be able to benefit from that infrastructure that's being built.

[00:32:24] Sharon: How does, having, a social enterprise or an Indigenous business come in and do, certain scopes of work or, you know, or what we call work packages, um, the impact that that has back onto communities. And I'll just throw around a couple of figures. And so, for example, Indigenous businesses, uh, last financial year, Contributed 16. 1 billion dollars into the Australian economy and you look at that and then that this particular report where I got this figure from, um, the Dylan Dewar Center, part of, the business school of, uh, down in Melbourne University. And they've broken it down into, the salary, how many jobs did that provide, how many Aboriginal people were employed, um, to the money that was spent on wages, through to, comparing it to other industries.

[00:33:25] Sharon: Now, and it's almost like it's unspoken, you know, no one seems to know that we've, you know, we've got Indigenous businesses there, contributing this amount of money into the Australian economy. Now, I think it was, Kate, Russell from Supply Nation likened, that, 16. 1 billion. Actually, she didn't liken it.

[00:33:48] Sharon: She said, well, that's the value of what the timber industry contributes to the Australian economy. And here we are as a collective, have a group of Aboriginal people, uh, generating this income. That's benefited by all and that's the start of what, you know, I mentioned the word, generational wealth, but this is also starting to stem into intergenerational wealth.

[00:34:11] Sharon: So, social value, it's the whole gamut. So it's the social economic opportunities that the infrastructure provides. And then how the community interact with that infrastructure once it's been built.

[00:34:24] Trisha: Fantastic. So, in terms of the collective, is that, is that something that you want to invite people to learn more about?

[00:34:34] Sharon: Yes, so, so what we're, we're looking at is, the aim of the social value group is that. It's to enhance the decision makings and the well being of people. But it's not just people, it's the planet.

[00:34:48] Sharon: So, so when you look at the, the ESG model, it's not just the economic and social opportunities, but it's also how are we going to, be sustainable, and environmentally, kind and friendly as well. So, all of this comes in, into the social value collective. So, you can't just say it's just about the people.

[00:35:12] Sharon: It's about the entire environment. So, when I talk about how we're going to interact with that infrastructure once it's built, that's back into that, that, the whole concept of environmental and sustainability.

[00:35:25] Trisha: Yeah. That's brilliant. We can put links to a lot of these things in the show notes, Sharon. So we can we can leave people with things to go and explore further. I want to thank you so much for your time today. It's been extremely helpful. And, I'll also put your LinkedIn connection, so that if anybody would like to connect with you, they can do that.

[00:35:45] Trisha: I think you've expanded our thinking, and, we all want to think in terms of chocolate cake now. Um, so, I hope that, I hope that all our All our chocolate cakes expand and get bigger and are shared with many, many people. So thank you to the listeners and please, make sure that you're following us on your podcast app so that you're ready for the next episode of The Shift.