0:00:49 - Natalie Jennings

This is the Photo Business Help podcast, a resource for photographers of all levels, from brand new to burnt out, who believe that business growth starts with personal growth. I'm your host, natalie Jennings. I created Jennings Photo back in 2010 and have been happily full time since, but not without some mistakes along the way. Those lessons, plus what's really helped me thrive financially and personally, are what I want to share with you so you can grow with your photo business too. You'll also hear stories from other photographers and industry folks, as well as my favorite ways to be more mindful and happier on this journey. I'm guessing that you have a creative streak somewhere in your body and soul if you're a photographer, and today's podcast is one of my favorite topics the creative process, how to get moving and expressing yourself in a way that feels really good and is very satisfying, even if you're really feeling stuck and I think we've all felt stuck in our creative process. So Bri and I talk about all kinds of things related to how we let out the magic or connect with the magic, and how to make our work better and just enjoy our lives more while doing that work. We also talk a little bit about my new deck, as you know from my other work and maybe some of the coaching work you've done with me in the past, I read Tarot and as part of my coaching program my clarity coaching I've just completed my first deck, which started out as a little bit of a joke. It's called the corporate oracle and if you know me, you know that, like I'm not like typically very excited about the corporate world. But what started as a joke evolved into this deck and it is really, really a pleasure to have it in hand. We're doing print tests right now. So, even though it is not available, you can jump on the waitlist. If this is something you'd like to get for yourself or for a friend or just learn more about it, just go to nataliejco forward slash waitlist and you can jump on the waitlist for the corporate oracle. Or if you just want to go to nataliejco and poke around, there is a link to the shop and you can get on the waitlist there. I'm starting all kinds of new fun things this year and this is one of them. I would love to see your name on that list nataliejco forward slash waitlist.

I do have a tendency to have great chats before I hit record and then also after I hit stop, and that's one where I have to really watch myself. It's interesting because people, whether they're used to being on a podcast or not and you're used to podcasting, obviously with the modern woman show and stuff like but it's interesting how we all have this odd sort of persona or mask we wear. Even if we think we aren't wearing it. It comes off. Even if it's the thinnest of layers, it comes off. When that record button is stopped, people like their shoulders drop and they're like, oh my god. I totally think that the industry is well, these things come out, that I'm like that's what the people want to hear, that's what everybody wants to hear. It's just hard to do that without being I would have to be completely dishonest with people and say, okay, we're done when we weren't, and that would be creepy and weird. There isn't really a way to manufacture that. I mean you can't manufacture authenticity or authentic conversation, but it's so interesting. Have you found that as well?

0:04:47 - Bri Dimit

A hundred percent. I found that in recording guests on the modern woman show. I found that on myself even like I feel fairly confident and behind a mic. But it is astounding to me how you're a hundred percent right. My shoulders drop, I feel calmer and then I just feel like the natural conversation then follows immediately once the recording stops, and it's usually a reflection of what we just talked about, and like nine times out of 10, yeah, you're right. It's like the goods come out Like that's the point. What do you think?

0:05:23 - Natalie Jennings

that is. It seems like it's like a huge filter that we have where we know we want to present a certain side of ourselves or sound smart about whatever we're talking about, or whatever it is. I don't know. I mean, I'm just throwing out ideas, but why does it feel like we can't say certain things just right now, like what is that? That's so weird, right.

0:05:49 - Bri Dimit

Yeah, I feel like for me personally it is very rooted in wanting to be received positively, like wanting to be the most articulate, wanting to be, because I think for me I'm my highest self in my songs, like when I'm writing my music, I am very intentional with my point and I also feel like that's even a deeper relaxation state for me is when I'm in the creative process, because all of those masks, like you were talking about, as thin as they can be, kind of dissolve and disappear and I feel like people don't. It is with me the whole time during that creative process, during the writing process. It's a soul expression and it's with myself. And then I go into the recording studio and I share it with my audio engineer, but it's still like me, it's still mine, it's my fullest expression of what I wanted to articulate and express. And then people don't hear it until like such a long period of time before it's like registered and produced and put out. But by that point in time I feel like seen, because the part that mattered to me was the writing of it and so I'm really proud of it.

But I think when it's in the moment, any live interview or any like it's fascinating because, yeah, I think it has to do with that receiving piece, like how am I going to be received? And you know personally that that's been something that I've had many phases of working through. But I think we're just innately kind, good beings, and at the end of the day, we want to share wisdom or love or good tips or successes. We want to be helpful in some way, shape or form, and so and maybe I'm naive for believing that, but I truly do and I think that that kind of comes into play in mixes with societal standards and pressures of just life that we may have adopted over time.

0:08:10 - Natalie Jennings

Yeah, I think you're right on with that. Like the filter is definitely how am I going to be received? I think, especially in the wake of the pandemic, etc. Like cancel culture is real and I think people are very afraid of not everybody, but interestingly enough, the people that are not afraid of being canceled are the ones that seem to have the most attention on them, the most listeners, the most, and so what's fascinating about this whole? I don't know? Just, you know, doing over 400 episodes of this, it's unbelievable. It's 100% of the time the recording goes off and something else happens, something different shifts, and I think I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say.

I think I would like to make that layer as I evolve, as like a host or just when I'm a guest, like I really would like to make that layer thinner and thinner, and thinner.

I don't think it's ever going to fully go away, even for the most popular shows or people out there that aren't afraid to speak their mind.

But I do think that I started off like if I I'm sure if I went back and listen to early episodes, I was even more polished and more sort of I mean, they're great polished things out there.

Npr is what it is for a reason that high production quality is also captivating. But if you're tuning in to just listen to someone's opinions and in this case, my, what I've learned in my mistakes and my thoughts on running a photo business and being a creative like I think the most popular episodes are generally the ones where I'm just blabbing away a little bit and not really being as polished and I just I don't know I we don't have to talk about this the whole time, but I just thought it was a really interesting thing to note and and I think you're right about that that we're very conditioned to wanting to be received well and not have the conflict. You know, and I think you almost have to seems like it would be a skill to sharpen, to be okay with the conflict or the cancel culture Like that almost seems like something you also have to learn. Maybe it's not an unlearning of the other, but it's a learning of something else.

0:10:21 - Bri Dimit

True, yeah, I used to. When I first started doing podcasts, guest appearances, I would always come with a statistic. So I would always look up before my interview some sort of research, just to sound like intelligent, to sound like it's not just my opinion, to like validate my thoughts. And I look back on that and I think that's so funny because, yeah, the whole intention was for me to sound really professional, sound very polished, but as I get older and as I tap more into my like, really create, like my most authentic creations, and especially with music to, I find myself creating the most wonderful art when I am not in my head and I'm just like fully relaxed and I'm with myself, fully and like without all of the noise. How do you get there? Oh, that's a great question. Well, I think there's a lot of tools that I've developed to get there, I mean rapid wire method being one of them.

But I also meditate a lot and I also really appreciate solitude, like I really am good at tapping in with myself and recognizing when I just need to be with myself and spending that time. I'm also a writer, so I journal a lot and then I also am very aware of the distractions that can pull me. I've been very conscious of what can be triggering and I try and set myself up for success, like creating tools, like the letters that I write to myself at the beginning of every year. I write letters to myself based on whatever prompts come to mind, like when you're feeling lonely, when you feel lost, when you feel like your music isn't you. All these prompts, maybe when you just need advice or you need a hug.

0:12:30 - Natalie Jennings

Yeah.

0:12:31 - Bri Dimit

And I write myself a letter with that intention and then I just like have a box of them throughout the year. Whenever I feel those prompts, I just open those and essentially just like self care letters to myself that also help me tap into my highest self, knowing that, yeah, that like being with myself and and letting myself just exist freely is the best way to live.

0:12:56 - Natalie Jennings

It's just a way to really let your creativity flow. You know it's that I mean this is going to sound just absurdly cheesy, but it's that self love piece that actually is sort of the key to almost everything in my understanding, like all of the things that I've learned and studied comes back to that piece, which is an interesting one because it has a lot of depth and facets to it. It's not just like deciding one day to say the words I love myself because there's vibrational energy there too, but I love that you do that. I think the letters are really cool and I think I can see how that would help you if you were feeling off to really kind of connect with yourself again, which is, your words were higher self.

But I'm wondering one of the things we we had talked about a couple things when we connected last time and this is sort of like connected to it, but we were talking about during the creative process that it's more fun when you don't have an outcome in mind. I don't remember our entire conversation around that, but I did take a note about that because it was something that lit both of us up. We were like, ah, we were really excited to talk about it. We don't have to talk about it right now, but it's just sort of related to this and it popped into my head that, like, how do you find your creative process changing if you have, like, a very specific expectation for the work versus I'm just going to sit down and write a song or sing a song or whatever it is you're creating. It doesn't have to be music. Is there a difference there for you in your process?

0:14:24 - Bri Dimit

Yeah, absolutely so.

A great evolution that has happened recently to me in my life is before.

I lost my mom to a rare liver cancer when I was 13 years old, and from her diagnosis to her passing there was only six weeks in between, and for the longest time one of the things that helped me cope was thinking that there was a reason, and I was only 13 and I was young, and that made me stand out from the community that I was in with other 13 year olds who were not aware of what grief and loss looked like in my immediate community.

And so for me, what helped me cope at that time was thinking that there is a purpose behind this pain. And, although that might have been helpful at that time, that then evolved into my art and my music as like the highest expectation, like because I went through these painful experiences and adversities of the kid, I did it because there's a reason. And that evolved into having this expectation for the end result of my art and I would get so frustrated if four people liked it or if you know like I was so focused on that, and it was rooted in the foundation of the creation part. And as I've evolved, I've learned.

0:15:57 - Natalie Jennings

The expectation was rooted in the foundation. You have this expectation rooted in the creation part. Is that yes?

0:16:04 - Bri Dimit

yes, yes. So I have this really high expectation to validate that theory that I just had developed as a kid. And now, I mean, it's been 17 years and now this album that I'm putting out this year is filled with songs that are just me and they. This album was rooted in me, expressing how I feel related to all the lessons I've learned in life, and they aren't out yet.

I haven't had a response, I haven't shared many of them, but it feels so like I don't care, like I go, I no longer desire, like that I appreciate the part of the creation, like I feel so, seen in these songs for myself, that that is enough, that this is just the truest, most authentic form of who I am. And so now, as an artist, I just in a creative, I just feel so liberated by that and and I feel like that's so rooted in that idea of like how Rick talks a lot about about not focusing on that, and he also talks a lot about like being a lifelong learner, like working on himself all the time, and that he's a work, of work in progress, and I think that also really helped give me grace of like caring less about how big I am, how many people listen, if people like it, if people don't, if it could be used in a movie, if it would and ever be like. All those things have become mute. The second that I tapped into, letting myself just exist.

0:18:06 - Natalie Jennings

It's like just you're doing it for yourself, you're doing it because it wants to come out and that's it, 100%, that's it. I can relate to that with my work as well, but I can relate to both sides of that. I can absolutely relate to wanting or desiring an outcome and kind of the disappointment when that outcome doesn't happen as well as just like I'm going to make this and whatever, and I think there's just a lot of freedom and just making stuff because you want to make it, and I think that's the stuff that also ends up resonating with people a lot more, because it just it's coming from a that word, but an authentic place. Everybody, everybody uses that word a lot, but it's the best word to describe what we're talking about, and Rick Rubin is who we're talking about. That book, the Creative Act, is just amazing, and I say amazing not hyperbolically, but it really is. The way it's structured is that you can read the whole thing or you can just pick it up and read little chapters, and I have it kind of on my nightstand now where I just pick it up and read little bits because every paragraph is very thoughtful. But it's got this soul of connecting with what creativity really is, and so, whether you're a photographer or musician or whatever, that piece is in the beginning and some things just trying to come out of you. I don't know what that is, but we all have and you don't have to be. I know people get hung up on the word creative. I'm not creative, I'm not an artist. Change the word out then. Whatever it is you like to do cook a meal, if you like to mow the lawn and neat little lines, like, whatever it is that your thing is we all are expressing ourselves in that creative way and I think one of the cool things about the book is that there's different stages. He kind of outlines, and my Capricorn, like organized mind was very happy to know that. Like, at some point it's okay to put parameters around the work, like like a due date or like some little bit. But this beginning process, this process of like just letting it out and letting it be whatever it wants to be, like just making what needs to be made and not worrying about the outcome, not worrying about what you're going to do with it, not worrying about if it's going to be a business or not worrying about what other people, all of that's just letting it come out of you and then just seeing what happens from. That, I think, is really.

There's a woman I follow on Instagram. She makes stained glass vaginas. It's there, beautiful, and she has like a massive business now, but it was like a thing she just started making and well, I guess it wouldn't be the vagina, like the labia I don't know what part, but you know generally the outside part not and it's. She just has it's. They're beautiful, they look like lovely little yoni oval things with like a little I don't know. She uses like plant matter and jewels and all kinds of stuff, but she's. I've just watched her audience grow over the past few years and it's like she's busy, she's out, she's, and I don't think I'm speaking for her, but I, from what I gather, having followed her in the early days, I don't think this was her plan to be this like popular, amazing artists and I'm sure when she is at a dinner party and people ask what she does, they're probably like whoa.

But whatever that was like needed to come out the corporate Oracle. So I'm publishing my first deck. You know I'm a tarot and Oracle reader as well and the corporate Oracle started as a joke. It was just like I was talking about Oracle cards with my partner and he has a corporate background and he was just like, what about if it was like corporate stuff, like the water cooler and you know? And I was like, and so we started just listing off different archetypes in that space and then I came home and just started doodling like ideas and all of a sudden it's a 52 car deck and it's because it just kept wanting to be what it's become. But it certainly did not start. And if I sell like two of them, fine, I mean I'm going to try and get them out there because it's a cool deck and you have an early copy of it. But I'm saying all this just to give examples of how the early creative process should just be. About you. I mean I could have just said that, but I said all the other stuff.

0:22:23 - Bri Dimit

I feel like that also goes to our point of trusting the universe. We were kind of also talking about that of like us being in a relationship with the universe and basically taking on the responsibility to show up for ourselves and for our souls and then letting the universe place the right people in your life, organize you know, let it be heard and seen by the right people and let it take on its own life. Like you were talking about this incredible woman who made these stained glass like art pieces, extraordinary, like yeah, I mean that's so cool that it was just like a expression of her and what it's now evolved to. I mean, I've always deeply believed but maybe didn't always understood and embody the reality that art is truly the creation of the soul and for me, particularly like pain is a very key ingredient in art, as I feel or not even pain, but just like strong emotion is a key ingredient in art and it essentially invokes something in us that yearns to be felt, heard, seen itself, and that is what I believe shows up as creations.

0:23:49 - Natalie Jennings

Yeah, creation as a form of prayer, right, it's like you're connecting with whatever it is the divine. Really, if we're all fragments of the same original source, then we're each allowing some of that to come through us, like a dog, for example. Today's the one year anniversary of my sweet little Isla passing away, and I always look at dogs and they are like pure source energy, like if you have like you on your best creative day, that's a dog like. Every time you come home, they're like ah, I gotta show you all the love, all the love's coming through me, all the love's coming through me, and it's just like they're little source energy balls like just running around. They're just so pure. It's just such a beautiful reminder that we all have, like when we're tapped in with nothing in our way. So back to this conversation at the beginning this filter we put on, or just the expectations we have about our art. When we're just totally letting it go, we're capable of, we're literally just like letting energy run through us and we're capable of some pretty amazing stuff, I think it's.

There's another thing that we were talking about back the last time. We talked like a Rick Rubin quote and I'm gonna butcher it, but it's this idea like if I set out to do something and the universe isn't rising up to meet me, meaning that energy isn't flowing or the connections aren't being made, or it just feels hard and sticky. He said something along the lines of then I hesitate to fight with the universe. And so it's that idea of like when we feel like we're forcing something or we sit down because it's like it's one o'clock I'm supposed to be at my desk at one o'clock and I'm not writing or I'm not creating or forcing. It is not really the game either. We're in this structural society of nine to five. But if we can recognize that sometimes like that we're not going to get the creative hit just because we've carved out the time for it, it's probably gonna happen whenever it wants to happen 100% and that was a lesson that I feel like I've learned too.

0:25:50 - Bri Dimit

It's like and I think in the music industry too, it's a little challenging when you are tasked to complete a specific project with a specific timeframe, but it was extraordinarily liberating and you can tell I believe, in the professionalism and quality of the songs that I've created for this album. There's so much more pure, like that pure dog energy, because I didn't set a timeline for this album to be done, like the intention wasn't to create an album for X, it was literally to let myself experience life and any time that emotion, that strong emotion that showed up in my life like came out as a new song. And yeah, I think it makes a difference.

0:26:42 - Natalie Jennings

Yeah, and back to that structure piece like I.

Again, this calms my Capricorn soul a little bit because I, like I'm very organized and I like a little bit of structure, you know, but the idea that, like honoring this stuff just coming out when it wants to come out, but then, once it's out, giving yourself some parameters around that, like that's according to Rick's book and all of his experience doing what he does and just the concepts that he's outlining, like that that's okay because you're no longer necessarily in the deep sort of allowing phase I guess you would almost call it an allowing phase like you're just letting stuff come out, versus then you're kind of shaping what's already there In a way. You're not. It's a different type of creative act at that point I think.

0:27:26 - Bri Dimit

Yeah, I feel like it's really important.

I feel like that that intrinsically for me comes with the authenticity of the creation process, like I'm so proud now of what I have made because it's so true and pure that now I have this intrinsic discipline to execute and get it out, like I'm not just gonna sit on these Like now.

I also have this like almost responsibility of like these were made for more than just me and I know that. But I think it's important to have the right mindset for that creation process. Like if I had the discipline before the songs were created and leaned into that a little bit too much, then I feel like I would put pressure on myself. I would be like, why isn't the creative flow happening? But I had that like peaceful, like no timeline at the beginning of the creation, that allowing phase. But now that I'm out of the writing process and they're all written, now I have this like very passionate discipline to get into the studio, get them recorded, get them mixed, get them mastered, get them out, do something with them. And that's what I feel like Rick talks a lot about too. That's what makes a great leader, artist, creative, as someone who can do both.

0:28:50 - Natalie Jennings

I love that this has become a podcast to promote Rick's book, which, by the way, like no affiliation but he's just. He seems from afar like a lovely man. I've really enjoyed his book and his podcast. So here we are, talking about it, but the concepts are there, right, and so, like you just said, I like the thinking about things in different phases like that, and, as a photographer, you know a lot of photographers obviously listen to this podcast.

If you're stuck and not feeling good about what you're creating, try and go back to that, allowing mind, or not even mind, just that allowing self. In other words, what do you want to take pictures of Outside, of don't? This is not about like what's gonna make the most money and what you're advertising on your website. If you carried your camera around for the weekend or a day that you head off, like what are you drawn to? What wants to come out of you and I think that has so many clues when we're feeling a little stuck is like just having zero, zero, zero expectations. It's just like what wants to come out of you today.

0:29:57 - Bri Dimit

Yeah, I love that that last line like yeah, ask me yourself what wants to come out of me today.

0:30:04 - Natalie Jennings

Yeah, yeah. One thing I found too just back to the sort of when I was asking you about how you get to that allowing place one thing that I found that has really been helping me sort of to find that flow is that I sit down or stand up, whatever the activity calls for I do the thing, no matter what mood I'm in. So you know how sometimes you're really really motivated to do something and in that case do it. But if you are finding yourself distancing yourself from something just because you've fallen off the motivation train, what I found helps is like just do it. Just pick up the paint brush or the guitar, or put on the your shoes and grab your camera, whatever the thing is, start. And I find that as you start, give yourself half hour, 45 minutes, maybe even an hour, and in that time provided you've removed distractions and that's a key part of this like turn off your phone. In that time you're allowing your brain to enter a different state and some people might call it like a receptive mode. I mean, scientifically it's probably just a calmer. You know, hormonally it's probably just a calmer state from all of this stimulus that we have. I don't know, I'm just using those words, but allowing yourself the time to connect with the motivation is really huge. I found that that's like super, super helpful. I'm doing another deck that Saga, madernay, tarot and I'm in the phase now where there's structure, where, like this, all these weird designs came out and they are cool and I really enjoyed making it. And then it was like, well, am I going to make this into something? Or you know, now I know what it is, it has form. Now I just have to complete it. And there's definitely days where I'm like I am not really feeling it, but if I, if I stay away too long which I did a little bit this summer it's like you lose all kind of focus and investment in momentum. So I'll turn off all the distractions, maybe put on some music or something, but the phone is off, social media stuff is closed and I'll just I'll just sit and pull out the, my tablet and my Photoshop stuff and just start doodling and working on stuff and it takes maybe like yeah, half hour, 45 minutes, and then something magical happens and then it just you are, you enter flow, like you start to open up and stuff starts coming more easily.

And I used to talk about a book Cal Newport wrote. It's called deep work and it's all about how important it is to give ourselves the time to enter into that deep state. And I think this is related to what we're talking about this allowing of source energy or whatever wants to come out of you to come out. I think that you need to remove yourself from the chaos that is our daily simulation buffet and just do the thing. Give yourself some time and then see what comes out. There might be a day where you're like, okay, half an hour, I'm done. I'm really not wanting to do this, but I would say for me, nine times out of 10, if I eliminate distractions and give myself 90 minutes to two hours, once I get past that first 30 minutes I'm in, I'm in a different state than I would be had I not had the discipline to just sit down and do it. So there is a discipline aspect to I think.

0:33:31 - Bri Dimit

I know 100% and I love the just do it 100%. And I also think adding to that is looking at the evidence, like you were talking about. Looking at evidence that you've already created as well helps me. Like, for example, you're talking about creating this new deck. It's like looking at your Oracle deck and like letting yourself feel into how it started as a joke and then evolved into what it is now.

And for me, when I this album is very chapter based, it's almost like a book. The song is a like lesson that I've learned and experience that I've learned in an event along the way of life. And I was really struggling, I hit a very long block of creativity and I was like I have two songs left to write on this album. Why is nothing coming to me? And the dynamic of the album is the first six songs are reflections from the past and the last six songs are who I feel like I am and the embodiment that I hold today.

And every time I found myself naturally not intentionally but naturally going through the songs that I've made leading up to that point and then, like you said, somehow just found myself in that flow, in that like depth of what I had created prior to that day and was like I just like started coming because it felt like a full story.

So starting from the beginning and replaying the songs and rehearsing them and going through them and then listening to the songs that I've already completed, that have been recorded, and then letting myself tap back into the song and then also then would help me continue on with the story, like continue on with what was provoked after listening to those songs on the album. So so, yeah, I would say also like look at evidence that you have done in the past to like whatever that looks like for you. There is evidence that showcases you as a creator and it might even be evidence from you as a seven-year-old kid, but it's there. And so looking at the creations that you have created leading up to this point in your life, I think also allows you to tap back into that creation, part of your being.

0:36:07 - Natalie Jennings

I love that so much. I usually ask people about like advice or something they want to share towards the end of the podcast. But I feel like that is so powerful, like it's like using yourself as inspiration, right, I mean, I know from a photographer's point of view and now having this is my 14th year full-time when I go back and look at my first five years because also because I have some distance from it, like actual major amounts of time I feel like I'm looking at someone else's stuff, like it's been long enough now, where I'm like, whoa, that was a cool idea or whoa, I forgot about this photo, like it's a weird experience because you know, I've taken. So when you're doing lifestyle work, you're taking thousands and thousands and thousands of photos, so there's so many things to go back and look at as evidence and I totally agree with you, it can really. It can really fire you up a little bit. I mean, there's the flip side of that where sometimes I'm like, oh dear, you know.

0:37:06 - Bri Dimit

I was gonna say yeah, I'm sure a lot of people are like triggered by Facebook memories and stuff I know that that's kind of a funny meme that's been going around on social media too is like getting very cringe, cringy when you're looking at the statuses that you made. But yeah, there's definitely two sides to it.

0:37:24 - Natalie Jennings

But yeah, what a fascinating social experiment that we've never been through in history is being able to look back at your social media statuses and having like an algorithm that actually feeds them to you. Because there's definitely there's a change in culture around social media. Like the stuff, the way we used it 10 years ago, is different than now. Right, like we would just be like getting pizza or something, like announcing weird stuff you were doing or something, whereas now it has a different tone and it's used a little differently. But I've definitely come across some stuff where I'm like oh no, oh no, 100%. I mean, I'm 42 years old. I am grateful beyond.

If I have one thing that there's like deep gratitude for, it's that I was not. It was not an option when I was a teenager because it would just, it would be great privately to look back on some stuff. But man, we would all be, first of all, those of us that grew up in the 90s would be cancelled. There's a million things that we did and said that you can't now, and it's just because we were dumb and culture has evolved. But I mean like thank God, 100%, 100%. What a shit show that would be. Yes.

0:38:39 - Bri Dimit

Yes, but I also think you know it is a good, I think, for me too, even if I feel cringe, I also, at the end of the day, have this like immense respect for the growth that I have decided, you know, to become who I am now, rather than I would rather feel cringe and be like oh, free, like yeah, no, not anymore, no, and feel that way now, then be like oh, 100%, totally still feel that like, because then that would showcase more like of a stagnant way of living and I love the growth in every day as well, and I think the framework of looking at the evidence that has led you to who you are today Also is the same thing, is the same belief system that I use in the same tool that I use when I am, like, scared or nervous.

If I'm about to go on stage and I'm having those limiting beliefs, it's like I've been on stage before, like, but it's still is terrifying. In what I look at is other terrifying things that I've done and shown up anyway, and I'm like, if I can do that, then I can do this like let's go, and so, yeah, although it can be cringy, it also, I feel like, can be a really beautiful example of your growth and what you're capable of.

0:40:06 - Natalie Jennings

I love that. I think looking this is you just completely nailed the power of mindset and perspective right. So if you're going to look back on something as evidence of growth and learning, that's one lens. To look at it through the other one is to beat yourself up and be like idiot, like why you know right. So I think that's really beautiful and I think that in all things we do, like check what lens you're using, because the content doesn't change, but you have the ability to change how you interact with the content 100%. So thanks for that. That's lovely. Little kinder to my early Facebook self next time.

I see a memory come up, oh dear. Well, thank you so much. This is really fun conversation. I love talking about creativity and the creative process and it's just it feels. It feels like something that I have things that I've learned a lot about and a lot of things to say, but it also feels like it still feels like a total mystery. It's just this magic thing that happens to us as humans. It's, it really is, feels sometimes like a, a channeling of sorts, not to get to out there, but it does kind of feel like it's out of body once when you're really in the zone. It's a pretty magical experience.

0:41:23 - Bri Dimit

No, you nailed it 100%, no, absolutely, and this has been an extraordinary conversation. Thank you so so much for allowing me to be on and talk with you today. Also, you 100% give the energy of just like just this grounding energy you exude and like every part of this process has been just so relaxing and peaceful, and thank you for that. I know we were talking about that and you were mentioning that you hope to create, like you know, a space for people to kind of let down those masks, and I definitely felt that today, and so thank you for that intention.

0:42:07 - Natalie Jennings

Oh, that's really awesome and kind. Thank you. Well, yeah, I mean it's so fun to talk to you. So we met at a retreat for like a healing modality that we're both learning. I just finished my certification and I think and I'm using it in my coaching as a guide that, like you, in this space, you had to really go deep like real fast.

So you and I got to know each other, like we got to know about stuff that was like the deep stuff, before we really were even like where do you live? Like you're like I'm crying and going through like stuff with, like my miscarriage, and then I'm like wait a minute, so where do you live? Like you know you? Just we connected in a backwards way, which is like from what normal you know, which is really fun. So I always feel like we have just these like so many layers to access when we chat, and that's why I wanted to do this. You're not a professional photographer, but you are a creative and a podcaster and I thought, like all of these things are relevant, no matter what you're doing and speaking of. I know you said it's not available yet, but where would be like a good place for people to connect with you so that when your album does come out, or whatever it is that's coming out next, people can listen.

0:43:21 - Bri Dimit

Yes, yeah, I would go to my website at freedmitcom B-R-I-C-I-M-I-Tcom and join my like. I have a connect and so it was just let's connect and you just put your name and email on there and, yeah, I would say that you get the most up to date information on, like the album release and doing photo shoots for the album cover coming up, and so I just share a lot of behind the scenes details on there on my website and on Instagram, so those would probably be the best ways.

0:43:58 - Natalie Jennings

What's your Instagram handle? Freedmit at freedmit. So Right, yeah, that's, that's great Amazing.

0:44:06 - Bri Dimit

Yeah, stay up to date.

0:44:08 - Natalie Jennings

Cool. Well, I'm excited to hear the album when it comes out, and thank you for this beautiful conversation. I'm going to stop the recording now and we'll see what happens afterwards. Amazing, but let's do this again sometime. Brie, it's fun. I would love to Thank you.