one of my friends told me, if you're gonna fail, fail quickly.

Don't sit there for five, ten years, failing slowly,

and then your life passes by.

So that hit me.

And there's a thin line between what's right and wrong when you say fail quickly.

But the benefit is, it's true.

You learn so much and after, two decades of failing a lot of things

and a couple things went well.

But the more you fail, the more you grow,

Can peak success leave you empty and take 12 years to discover what truly matters?

Howard Quigley Chang designed Teenage mutant Ninja Turtles, walked away at the

height and now creates ancient biblical heroes, reimagined as futuristic warriors.

For the next generation, we'll explore creativity and calling, building a

business rooted in faith and why culture needs conviction over compromise,

grounded in purpose, and faith.

Howard, welcome to Seek, go Create.

Hey, thanks for having me out.

Great, great to have you too.

We are, I'll, I'll go and set the stage.

You and I are recording this on a Saturday morning.

I'm on the East Coast, you're on the West Coast.

And, nothing that I'd rather be doing than having a conversation like this.

I tell you what, I think we're gonna have fun.

I've been, I've been looking at your name as I've been doing research and all this,

and we've got Howard, you know, kind of a, I don't know, Anglo-Saxon type name,

Quigley nickname, Australian ish sounding.

that movie quickly down under.

And then Chang, which is obviously Asian, you know, background.

I mean, there's a lot of culture coming together in that name.

Give me a little origin story or something just to, just to

gimme some background there.

Well, I'm multicultural in many different ways.

born in Korea, I came when I was six years old, so I can say I'm purely American.

Went through the whole kindergarten system.

so I'm here and, my name, was Howard Chang since I was a kid.

I grew up with that.

And then my first job, which is what led me to designing Ninja

Turtle toys for almost a decade.

I just went, it was supposed to be a summer job, before I started college.

And my old bosses, who I still hang out with, I still talk to

them after 35 years, 36 years.

they didn't like the fact that I was gonna quit to go to college.

And, uh, they really wanted me to stay and they were upset about it

and they told me, you don't quit.

We fire you Howard.

Your fire didn't sound good.

So the next day he came back after watching the Jetsons and saw a

character named Quigley being fired.

And then he came over and said, your name's Quigley 'cause I fired you.

So that's it.

Stuck for 36, 37 years.

That's funny how nicknames do that because I mean, I don't, this sounds judgy.

You don't really look like a quigley.

I don't know what a quigley should look like.

I.

Yeah.

And no man, that didn't come across right.

No.

You, you look a lot like Tom Selleck.

No, I wa I also want to, I want to, I wanna, I wanna say this too.

We have, we have a lot of audio listeners, but we also have even more

growing over on the YouTube channel.

So if you are an audio listener, this might be an episode where you

want to jump over to YouTube over, over Howard's right shoulder a big

poster of, a Ninja turtle there.

And then also a lot of other, things that we're gonna be talking about soon.

So, I'm just gonna say that as we get started, and we'll possibly come back to

that later, but how, how, I gotta say, I said this right before we hit record.

We came up with this name Seek Go Create.

Years ago it was, it was three words that I believe the Lord gave

me in a very tough time in my life, and they have a lot of meaning.

Obviously they have scriptural reference and things like that, I

told you this There may not be anyone that exemplifies or whatever is

like a model for those three words then your life seek, go, and create.

When I say that, what comes to your mind?

do you agree with that?

Well, that's exactly what I'm doing.

I'm seeking, I'm creating, I'm going, I don't know where I'm going, but I

know I'm going in the right direction.

I'm pretty sure I am and I'm gonna keep to it.

So the reason I bring it up and the reason that became important for me

is I used to be like a go and then figure things out along the way, and

the Lord kind of told me, no, I need you to pause and spend some quiet time.

It sounds like a lot of your creativity, a lot of your ideas, I know we'll talk

later about ancients where it came from dreams, but let's even go back to the days

when you were starting and you were in that hot commodity of the Ninja Turtles.

how important was for you to pause before you began?

Or were you just like a, just go and start creating guy?

growing up, I guess throughout my youth and childhood, I was always

the best artist in class and people would ask me to draw things and I

was always win the competitions.

And, even during college I was, kind of teaching the teacher how to.

Do certain things.

So it just came natural to me.

everyone used to always say God gave you a gift.

back then, I didn't know what that meant, but I just took it.

Right.

So, when I got into the job, like I said, right after high school, it

was a summer job when I went in, you know, I just started going at it.

I didn't know what I was creating because the Ninja Turtle toys came

out the year, like less than a year before I started drawing for them.

it came out in 1988 and in 1999 I was already on the team designing turtles for,

a company called VA Studios, which was a. contract company doing the toy designs.

And, you know, I had a lot of fun and you can tell, and other podcasts

about the turtles, people were always commenting about all the little details.

No, no two legs looked the same.

No two arms looked the same.

They had something on there that looked different.

And what we realized decades later was that the Ninja Turtle franchise was one

of the most popular, toy lines in history.

And, I kind of left the whole design art creative scene.

I got burnt out literally out after eight years of doing it, and I took a

whole, you know, different sabbatical doing business apps and running

manufacturing, things like that.

But when I came back and visited Comic-Con after a long, absence.

Man, there were fans who were in their forties still wearing the turtle shirts.

And what I realized was the nostalgia that the whole fan base, what you see

today are people who grew up with these toys and they can never let it go.

Or They still have their collection and you know, there are certain fans out there

who love things and there are fans that are out there who love, love, love things.

And the people who really love things know the details of everything.

Who created it?

Who designed it?

What?

What year was it manufactured?

What year was it released?

They know all the details.

And those are the fans that are at Comic-Con.

And you know, when you go to Comic-Con, it is not a show that

you can pay that day and walk in.

it is like $400 to get a ticket.

These are some serious people who, and it is always packed, sold out.

It's incredible.

the San Diego Comic Con, at least that's the giant original one.

To meet all these people.

And what I realized was it will get to it later, the timing of everything.

You know, I grew up with, star Wars toys, star Wars made from Kenner, and, the toys

were just a part of the franchise, but the main thing was the movies, right?

ninja Turtles, Kevin Eastman, Peter Lair from Maine.

They made a bunch of comic books that did well in their region.

And it was a pretty much a big gamble by Playmates toys to come out with this.

And then it was, it still is widely successful, right?

And, That's one of the toy lines where I feel the toys made the

ip, you know, be, you know, beyond the story and everything else.

The imagination and the timing, again, what I realized today, there is so many

people out there suffering from, you know, just mental illness, mental, stress.

back then when I was designing turtles, the word depression didn't really exist.

There was no such thing as a DHD, like when people have A-D-H-H-D,

but back then they call 'em stupid.

right?

And then depression, you're sad, you can't get over it.

But the whole mental health issue today, I feel like people are more in tune with it.

I was bullied a lot as an Asian American living in America and I was the only Asian

in my school, so I understand it, but, you deal with it, you get through it, right?

And then times change.

But if you look at today how the world is and people, I meet them at

Comic-Con everywhere else, it's tough, you know, with the whole, polarization

of America, the people just fighting and they hate each other for what

they believe is right or wrong.

and the people when they look back, one thing that gave 'em happiness

was the Ninja Turtles was the toys.

That's the nostalgia.

they wanna go back to that time when they were happy.

Nothing mattered.

Politics didn't matter.

Relationships didn't matter.

All you cared about is having that ninja turtle, the Donatello right in your hand.

And I feel like, this is one time in history where.

people do suffer a lot.

They go through a lot of confusion and depression, and when they hold a toy,

it brings them back to their happy times

it is fascinating, the nostalgia part of it.

I was about to come outta Georgia Tech in that timeframe, starting my work, and

so I didn't have a real awareness of, you know, the teenage Ninja mutant Turtles.

And then our kids weren't born until a few years later, so

we kind of missed that gap.

But I mean, I was aware of them and from a cultural standpoint, were big.

did you have an awareness, looking back at how big it was and you just mentioned

how big it obviously still is for

Yeah.

I mean, when you're in those bubbles, think sometimes we can

think it's bigger than it is.

What was your perspective as you were in the midst of it?

Well, there's a lot of different toy lines out there.

There's Barbie, GI Joe, the Star Wars toys, but turtles were a little

different where, there's always a limit of how many characters

there are in the Star Wars movie.

you can only do that.

You can't make things up.

I don't know any other toy lines besides maybe the Hot Wheels toys

when they were coming out with crazy looking cars and everything.

But when I first started drawing the turtles, there's only four

main turtles out there, right?

the four characters and some villains.

There was a time like, okay, how much of a job do I have once I'm done with

these toys, there's gotta be a limit.

But there was no limit.

and I realized that it was doing well.

You just based it on how well a selling right.

But it would sell out right away so that, you know, most times in business

they'll, the client will send you something, Hey, we need this, design.

we need a fireman turtle.

We need that.

But it was moving so fast that I didn't have enough time in the day to design

as many different off takes as I could.

it got to a point where, hey, you know what, just design

whatever you want, right?

And just make it up.

So I used to come into work thinking, what should I do today?

Maybe a, a Navy seal turtle.

Do we need a basketball turtle?

We need a a, you know, we just.

How, again, this goes with your show, create, right?

This is the epitome of creativity.

You come in, you have a job where you can come and design and come up with

anything you want to come up with.

And as a team at Varner Studios, we used to have fun with it, come out with things

that they would never create, right?

We did.

So there's a lot of, designs that were never created, but you know,

the Nerd Turtle had a little calculator, shield a pencil and a

crazy looking glasses and everything.

And we used to come up with Bo Buddy Holly Turtle, and all kinds of stuff.

It is so interesting because, we're gonna talk about this a little while

when we talk about your project you're working on now with ancients.

But it is interesting how the toys, figures, whatever, you know, plus

the story plus the other mediums, you know, graphic novels or

comics or movies and all of that.

It is interesting how some of that all fits together, and sometimes

it's lightning in a bottle.

Sometimes there's intentionality behind it.

Sometimes you look back and you just don't know is something Now that you've

gotten, gosh, 20, 30, 30 plus years, looking back on it, what is it that

you look back and go, huh, that's one of the reasons why it worked so well?

Ah, man, that's hard to say.

Luck.

Was it luck?

I mean, sometimes that's the factor, but

Like they say, you put a lot of work in the end and you, and you,

I.

the amount of grit you put into a project or anything, the luckier you get, right?

So I mean, you, you're, you're positioning yourself to be lucky.

I mean, you had all the places in the right place, things in the right place.

People needed something, and this is, again, part of what I'm doing today.

the hardest thing today in pop cultures is to come up with something new and

make it as big as the turtles, became.

But I mean, if it was that easy, there would be so many ips out there.

you can't even, find them.

Right.

But yeah, it's, one of those phenomenons people say, you know.

Well, and you know, a lot of it's timing and different things like that.

another thing, Howard, that's fascinating to me and kinda more business engineering

minded, I'm always aware of this.

We talked before we hit record just about artists and how to

define that and what that means.

One of the things that's interesting to me is that there are a lot of people

would call themselves artists that

I hate to use the word monetize, but just to, to make money off of it.

it sounds as if you did that from day one.

I mean, almost day one.

You may not have a lot of understanding someone who's been.

we'll call it toiling for years in some type of arts field, and they,

it hasn't been commercialized.

I mean, you would show up at work and there was such an insatiable

demand for what you were creating.

You couldn't even keep up.

Where most artists, it's a flip.

Yeah,

They are creating so much stuff and they can barely get anyone interested in it.

what comes to mind?

I mean, we had a marketplace that was just on fire, right?

I mean, you know, art is, so what you met was art is so subjective.

I. Now consider myself again as an artist, but I was also like you

went into business manufacturing.

I was actually a computer programmer for like six, seven

years doing, Microsoft sql.

So I, one of those FOMO guys.

I tried everything right.

but since I've done everything and I was a ninja editorial artist and all

that, I think I experienced a lot.

I really feel like even coding is an art form, like two people

can do is so many different ways.

what you're doing here.

this podcast is an art form.

It's an expression, right?

So yeah, I mean, I look back at, what art really is.

I mean, some people might think.

This is too crazy to be considered art, but it's, it's my way of having

fun mixing two different things together and making it into something

that I feel like it's appealing.

And I have a bunch more, I don't know if you've seen these, I wanna show it to you.

My house is kind of messy, but

I wanted to, what, what you just pointed to, I wanted to say what that was.

You had, uh, one of the turtles with a cross around his neck with also the

parental advisory, explicit content behind

that is, that is a,

the, that's the humor, right?

that's the homage to, uh, Tupac and Leonardo, the turtle,

Oh, okay.

I get it.

See, I sometimes pop culture.

I may not get all that, but yeah, that's fascinating.

See, see, people are really gonna be, people are really gonna be

wishing they could get the visuals if they're, listening to this.

But yeah, that I see that.

this whole, I'm still keeping that turtle side of me going because,

you know, the turtles are, oh.

How to describe 'em is they're funny and they're goofy and they're ridiculous.

And, I feel like I have a lot of that in me, which allowed me to

have a lot of fun doing these.

I'm pretty, you know, wacky and, ridiculous.

Well, the thing that's interesting is that, know, there

are oxymorons in our lives.

You know, we all heard the joke.

Jumbo shrimp and, you know, different things like that.

Social security.

I think that's oxymoron too, but teenage ninja

teenage mut.

See, I, I don't even get it.

Turtles, I mean, turtles just kind of doesn't fit with some of that.

And the fact that it does just speaks to, you know, you're talking about

mental health in all earlier, it speaks to someone that doesn't conform.

They're different, you know, there's just, within that body, there's just

a bunch of different stuff going on.

maybe that was part of the appeal.

I don't know.

I'm not, we're not sitting here trying to, you know, psychoanalyze the

Well, it was,

of it.

the creators who were just goofing around and they wanted cars, and it just came

to make them teenagers, make them ninjas, make them turtles, and look what happened.

very relatable.

Alright, so, you mentioned you did that for eight years and now the project

you're working on has a faith component.

we'll get to that, but I'm kind of building to it.

So,

you have a faith aspect of your life while you were in this hot, expanding

coolest stuff going on with the turtles?

Or was there not much of a faith component?

how would you describe your, faith walk during that time?

pretty lukewarm, close to none.

boy.

I lived as, when I was, you know, we, we, I didn't grow up in a household that

prayed or did anything like that, but being immigrants from Korea, my parents,

their social, um, uh, you know, group.

Were always in churches.

So I was in and around churches, so I knew when you, when you're in and

around churches as a kid, you go to bible stu you go to, Sunday school.

So we know all the stories and you get fascinated by the stories, right?

not about the faith itself, but you're just wow.

The David and Goliath story.

That's incredible.

The Joseph story, Moses did that.

So I grew up just being fascinated with these stories, not really connecting

them to how God was working in them or, 'cause everybody loves the underdog story.

That's life itself.

Like, you know, when a losing team supposed to be lo they're supposed

to lose, they come back and win.

People love that.

And that's what I was drawn to with the Bible, that that's how I saw it.

I like the miracles.

I like the challenges spot.

I never really knew how to pray or, felt any faith, growing up

and, you know, we'll lead to that.

It came to me about 12, 13 years ago.

Hmm.

powerful.

I don't like the term serial entrepreneur.

Oh, well I kind of am.

but yet, but yet many of us have it.

Sometimes I will joke, I said that just means we couldn't find anything

we're good at, or we got bored or, we failed quickly or something.

I mean, there's a lot of things that I could tie in there, but I want to

get to the discussion of this, the dream you had and you got this idea

create what you're creating now and tie in the spiritual aspect of it.

But we do that, was there anything in that timeframe from, 12, 13 years ago,

which sounds like it was around 2015, 17 to, the late nineties when you left,

what you were doing with the turtles.

just a point or two that.

Impacted you that you brought into maybe some of the

projects you're working on now.

Something that you said, I'm never gonna do that again, or something, that you

said, This is something I need to carry with me as I continue my journey in life.

Uh, that's a, that's a hard question, but, uh, put, to put it in a nutshell what

you said, I was a serial entrepreneur.

I mean, there were maybe a couple that were pretty successful

that allowed me to do that.

I was a fashion manufacturing company.

I've done multiple apps.

I still do run a marketing company, digital marketing.

That's what kind of keeps me afloat.

We're not making too much money yet, but we're hoping it will.

you name it.

I've been into all these different industries and fail quickly.

one of my friends told me, if you're gonna fail, fail quickly.

Don't sit there for five, ten years, failing slowly,

and then your life passes by.

So that hit me.

It could have been the wrong way because as soon as I see something not working, I

just quickly say, let's go on to the next.

And there's a thin line between what's right and wrong when you say fail quickly.

But Yeah.

But the benefit is, it's true.

You learn so much and after, two decades of failing a lot of things

and a couple things went well.

But the more you fail, the more you grow, I guess.

So I feel like I. You know, God put me into those situations.

I look back in retrospect and I look at it and I go, God put me there for a reason.

I got this outta that experience.

I got this.

And it all came in perfectly for today.

Even my whole, journey with the Ninja Turtles came in perfectly and this

was what was supposed to happen, and it's kind of, phenomenal to see it.

Yeah, that.

So if someone asks you what you do, what do you describe yourself?

You mentioned artist earlier, so are you, would you consider yourself

an artist, business guy, or what?

if someone says, Hey Howard, what do you do?

What's your answer?

If they don't know you.

Well, that was like the first question you asked.

I mean, are you, Anglo-Saxon?

Are you, Asian or,

was your origin, not

or,

do.

That was like your.

I'm, of confusing, uh, like you said, uh, jumbo shrimp or whatever.

So.

Yeah, I, I consider myself an artist at heart because I love to create,

I love to, I love it when I create something and this what I call art.

I love to see people, how they react to it.

I love creating things and that's at heart.

But then I also love the whole aspect of business.

we're out there raising money right now and putting the deck together and

trying to get our funding and all that.

I love the whole process.

I love life.

I love everything that God has to offer or gave us, to experience.

So, yeah, core artist, but I also love business.

Hmm.

That's good.

All right, so 12, 13 years ago.

as the story, I've heard you probably had stuff going on business and,

but it sounds like you went through somewhat of a, I don't wanna call

it an epiphany or something in life that caused your faith to grow.

And there were things going on and it all, if I heard it correctly, kind of

came together in a short period of time.

Tell me about that and then maybe we'll get to the dream

that led to your current project.

'cause it was all sort of related, if I'm hearing correctly.

you know, I've, I am a firm believer that, of suffering, I

think we all grow through suffering.

I'm a father, I have three kids, and a lot of times, you wanna

make sure they don't suffer.

They don't.

Hit lows, but the lows are the times when I feel like they grow.

they mature.

I think it was 2012 I hit a low in my life.

That's pretty much the lowest point where I was going through a divorce.

after 10 years of marriage, we had three little ones.

Youngest was youngest, one being 4, 4, 6, and nine.

it was a tough season for me.

And, you know, from a worldly standpoint, I just tell people, Hey, it's over, man.

I mean, yeah, a lot of people get divorced.

It's, it's fine, but it took a, a big toll on my body.

If you see, if you saw me back then you can tell my hair was in different places.

I was losing weight, but heavy in certain places.

my friends would see me.

They, they know there's something's wrong.

Something's wrong, and.

A friend of mine came and I was, think I was having a cigarette outside.

And then he was, he, he looked at me and he was like, Howard,

I don't know where he goes.

This is too big for you.

I think you should let it go and give it to God.

Right.

And I didn't know what that meant.

Like, what are you, what are you talking about?

Talking nonsense here.

But when he said those words, this whole like, weight, just, just, it's hard

to explain, how certain words they can either destroy you or, or, or build you.

Right.

But what he said didn't make sense to me.

But those words just relieve me from stress.

And I was seeing psychiatrists, I was seeing a therapist, I was

getting anti-depression, medicine, anti-anxiety and all that.

Suddenly with those words, I didn't need it anymore.

So I looked it up.

I'm, I'm Google search was around back then.

I'm like, Google searching what's happening here?

And then, a friend of mine, I was on Facebook and she's asking how I'm

doing, like, Hey, this is going good.

by the way, I'm just getting a divorce.

And she called me up and invited me to her church.

it's funny how God works, but he orchestrated all that just perfectly.

He needed me to be at, like, he, I thought this was low.

No, you gotta go lower.

And then when it hits that point, like literally the bomb explodes and then

suddenly he picks me up and, you know, it's almost like, it is not as extreme,

but it felt like I was job, right?

Like, I want to give up.

And, from that point I really just said, Hey, for first time ever.

I just open up my, my heart, my life and see what God can do.

Right?

let's join this.

I'll listen to what the, what the leaders are saying.

They told me to come to church for every Sunday.

That's number one, right?

Number two, read every day.

Number two, pray.

pray every day.

Read and pray every day.

Three was join a life group.

And, and there was a, it was a, the church that says, if you don't do all that,

you, you can't be a serious member here.

Please don't come here anymore.

Go to some other church that you can do whatever you want.

Right?

So I took it seriously and man, in a short span of time, literally, I wanna say

two, three months my life changed, where I never believed in the, in the power

of prayer, never believed in scripture.

But, you know, my, my dad knows me.

I have, I have a history of alcohol, problems and, and, in and lot of things.

My father knowing what's going on, he was home.

I came back, him knowing what I'm capable of, looked at me and he was confused.

He goes, what's wrong with you?

I'm like, what are you talking about?

You look so good.

I'm like, what do you mean?

So I go up, look in the mirror, and man, I was gleaming.

I was glowing.

I realized what it was.

It was, I felt the Holy Spirit was really transforming me.

I never felt that.

I didn't realize what was happening.

And that was the point in 2000, end of 2012, right before, my ex-wife

left and we split up, that I realized those things really is life changing.

It transforms you and, yeah, I've been.

Pretty deep into it since it's like my drug.

I feel like I, I'm hoping for it.

I've experienced so many miracles, and that's another podcast about

all the miracles I, went through and yeah, it's just, I'm living it.

So the thing, that's the thing that's fascinating.

This, if there was a recurring theme, Howard, that we have in, 340

episodes, whatever it is, something like what you just described, it's.

Low of low.

That's my story too.

unfortunately, we, humans, people, men, women of faith typically

don't make those kind of changes.

Unfortunately, when things are going great,

that, that bothers me.

But yet that's just the way it is, isn't it?

Uh, you know, I, I was just really, it's funny you say that.

I was just thinking about that yesterday.

Um, there, you know, I'm not blaming anybody or whatever, uh, but you know,

you, we all have friends in life, right?

they're great friends When things are going great, right?

And when things are going bad, when you need 'em desperately, are they there?

do we need just, are you only here when things are going great?

would you only invest in me if things are happening, or would you believe

in me when I need you the most?

I looked at the list of people, the vast amount of friends that

I have, and, I love all of them.

they're great people.

That's why they're called friends in my life.

But there's only a tiny few that you can say are actually

there when you're suffering.

it doesn't come close to what God does, is that the only time that you call out

to God, right when you need something?

why can't we just, in our successes and our highs, celebrate with them too, right?

I think that's why Jesus said it's harder for a rich man to get to

heaven or to, have salvation and all.

But you brought up job and it's fascinating.

This is what came to me when you brought up job.

I'm going, yeah.

That's the story that we keep hearing over and over again.

And I've often wondered

is job in the cannon of the Bible, why is it included?

And it's probably for that reason.

it's all of our stories

Yeah.

and it's the message of need God, I mean, you know,

Hey, you think you have.

So anyway, we could go down that road, but I want to talk about this project

because at some point during that time, you obviously were on a faith journey

where you were stepping into his kingdom and allowing him to be your king.

that's the way I refer to it.

instead of, he's just another part of what we have going on in our lives.

No, he's the king and we're stepping into his kingdom.

somewhere along the way, you got this idea this big project, and I'd

like for us to take the next, 20 plus minutes and talk about this project.

So give me the impetus or the catalyst of this, and then let's

start having fun with all these new things you've got working on.

well, I told you what happened, uh, 12 years ago.

so during that time of, I guess that's my transformative years, I guess,

spiritually, you know, I'm, I was really on that high and it was right around

Christmas I was thinking to myself, Hey, you know, what can I give my kids?

that kind of shows them what I'm going through and something maybe pointing

towards a Bible and I was looking around and I couldn't find anything, man.

Like, it was hard to see anything that's popular in pop culture or even, like

even back then you listen to Christian music and if you listen to a kid you'd be

like, oh my gosh, why you listen to that?

Right?

So it was, everything dealing with by the Bible, the church.

Seemed like it was a hundred years old, right?

It's, nothing cool about faith.

And it bothered me a little bit.

So I'm thinking, okay, how come, we can't come up with something that

is as cool and people just want it.

And so when I was looking on Google search, the only toy that

I found was David and Light.

They're wearing their loin cloth and they're throwing a stone.

I would guarantee if I bought that for my kids, they would disown me and they would

wanna move live with their mom forever.

So my, ideal was, what can I come up with?

And it was during a time of prayer and meditation that I was seeing things

in my head, and it looked a little like the characters that I created for

ancients, which is what we'll get to.

but I was trying to make sense of it.

Then I remembered, hey, I was a toy maker for a pretty popular toy line.

that started the whole, process I guess, and gave me the ideas and,

a direction that I wanted to do.

But the biggest point was to make toys.

You gotta have a billion dollars and that's not a kind

of guarantee you success.

you're dealing with toy companies out there that have deep pockets, that

have manufacturing, that have supply chain and everything ready to go.

And then I remember what a pastor told me, and I was again,

very new in my faith, right?

he says, you know, everything goes to God's glory.

So if I came out with something that I could manage, that I think I can

do achieve, then it's not God ized.

Do something that's impossible.

You know, you can't do.

But you can only achieve it if God's involved.

So this seemed perfect.

I mean, I can't do this on my own.

I don't have that kind of money to, to get out there and compete against, Batman,

Superman, Spider-Man and Transformers.

So that, yeah, that was confirmation for me.

you know what, I'm gonna go for it.

I don't care if I end up homeless or end up like job again, but

I think I'm gonna go for it.

Yeah.

My observation though is most people, kind of a one situation and

then move on to different things.

I do think there's struggles and all, but

so one thing that I think I've heard you say somewhere was that you have

a bit of a perfectionist streak that caused some of this to be, I don't

even know if delayed is the right word.

'cause I think timing, we talked about it earlier when we were talking about the

mutant turtles, that timing is important.

So sometimes these are divine or they're for a purpose.

But talk a little bit about, I think I heard you say something about

you just wanted them to be perfect, but that's interesting to me.

I've got a follow up question that I want to ask.

Okay, well that's true.

I have this, every line has to be perfect and it has to be,

Otherwise I'll never finish it.

That's why I haven't finished so many things in my life.

But I can design a ninja turtle in a day.

I can design two ninja turtles in one day and get it out there, get it approved.

but why did this take 12 years?

Well, because it's mine and I can't give it to people unless I know it's perfect.

And then, you know, I just, got remarried, a year ago, less than a year ago.

Name's Gloria and she's a woman of faith and she absolutely

loved the idea, that I had.

And, you know, it is tough.

There's two parts to why it took 12 years.

Number one is that perfect issue.

It has to be perfect.

we tried, I had a couple of people help me and in the very beginning,

six months of just drawing, drawing, drawing, I was never happy.

I was one of those guys you don't wanna work for?

Nope, nope, nope.

No worry about this.

Nope.

It doesn't.

That's not what's in my head.

So I'm thinking, trying to create what was in my head, and, you know, during

times of prayer, multiple times I would see things and draw it out, but

you can't, it wouldn't come together.

So I was never happy.

And then there was a few other moments during the 12 years that I tried it again,

but I was really busy, being a single dad and making money doing other things.

But when I met Gloria, she told me one thing.

She goes, it doesn't have to be perfect, right?

But this has to be the time.

So, two or three miracles happened, about a year ago.

That led us to start this and yeah, I mean there is no such thing as perfect, right?

It's fascinating that you bring that up because the contrast that I heard

is that when you sat down in 18, in 19 89, 90, 91, 92, you would come

in and just crank out, uh, I don't know if that's the right word, but

That's.

crank out stuff.

And some of it would stick, some of it wouldn't.

And I don't wanna say you didn't care.

That's not, maybe not the right term, but it was almost like it was

just, I don't even wanna say assembly line, but you were just doing it.

So that's one thing and, and I'm gonna let you respond to this, but there's

one other thing I wanna mention.

The thing you mentioned about this project is that you are the owner, but I'm, I'm

gonna press on you for just a little while and let you agree or disagree with this.

I've been very similar in some projects I have.

But what the Lord has told me is that I'm not the owner of

anything, but I'm a steward.

And that kind of helps me rethink it.

So those two together.

The way you worked when you were just cranking out the work and now that you,

now that you're in a faith component, let's just say we kind of, because I

think a lot of people of faith do this.

They get in this thing, okay, now it's for God.

But does that make sense?

Respond to

Yeah.

you want to

come.

Yeah, a hundred percent.

I mean, cranking out you, you know, I remember because it

wasn't mine, it was just a job.

Right.

And I wasn't liable.

Something happened.

So I'm just, it was a lot of fun.

I was young too.

I was 18 to 26.

You didn't know what you didn't know.

and I had the job that all of my colleagues or friends they dreamt

of, and I didn't even appreciate it.

it was just work.

I go in, I draw, they love it.

Great.

And I was like a celebrity in the office.

Hey, I'm, they love it.

Okay, we use a fax machine.

They would fax it over and they get a, a call.

We love it.

They loved it.

years later, after all these different ventures and jobs that I've done, remember

I told you I failed so many times.

double digits, right?

it costs a lot of money, a lot of time.

And that, that was my MBA, right?

I'm learning.

I'm learning.

And then, what I realized, early on was that.

I'm not a good CEO man.

I'm not a good, I'm not a good leader of a business, but what I'm really

good at is being the number two, I'm a great vice president and, and that,

that company succeeded like crazy.

I'm a real good partner, right.

today knowing that God's at the helm and I'm, can you make me your vice president?

Great.

And, and that's how I see myself.

And suddenly I, I get a lot of, confidence because when I'm at the

helm, I can never make it perfect.

And, I would worry too much about money and, and failing.

And you know, right now we're seeking money to take this to the next level.

but I have a lot of confidence and I'm not, I don't feel liable for it, I guess.

Does that make sense?

it does.

Yeah.

It's good to have a, Gloria, I have a glory.

You have a Gloria, someone that reminds you and encourages you and says, do it.

Just come on you, you've talked about this enough.

Just go ahead and let's go to Comic Con.

Let's do this.

and you recently, I want to congratulate you.

you had a Kickstarter that it looks like it funded and was successful.

That finished up just a little while back.

I'm sure that's a drop in the bucket to the money you need, but it's

Yeah.

just a, a good little indicator.

Tell, tell for, for those.

I, I, I almost feel like we need to explain to some people what a fax

machine is, but we're not gonna do that.

You, we just mentioned something that people are go, well, what's a fax machine?

But Kickstarter, just real quick, just gimme your experience and thoughts.

Was that a good move?

Did it work well for you and, and give you some.

Kick Kickstarter is a crowdfunding platform where

people come out with an idea.

the more people like it, they get to pledge, they get to back to project.

It is like they get to buy it before they produce it.

this is a great idea for this cup.

it is made of diamonds.

Okay, great.

I want it.

And so if it meets that goal, it's a successful campaign.

If it doesn't, everybody leaves.

Nothing happens.

But I felt it was a good platform simply because we can

get a lot of eyeballs in it.

But to be honest, I think our audience was, we couldn't find our audience.

you know, again, what I'm gonna talk about ancients is an art toy, a designer toy.

They're kind of expensive because it's more comparable to, bear bricks or costs,

kid robot collectible figurines, which can be hundreds of dollars, maybe thousands.

the audience coming in, they were looking for toys.

And the, the, the comments we're getting was how could just charge $300 for a toy?

Doesn't make sense.

So we didn't connect with our audience, but just barely enough

people to get us past that goal.

And we're hoping for a million bucks, but hey, maybe we'll get that another way.

God put us through this for a reason and there's no harm to it.

That's

another good learning.

I think it's a good data point to know, okay, hey, here's what

we found out, here's what we'll be able to accomplish with that.

And I do think it's valuable.

So, alright, we've danced around it.

So now tell people what ancient is and what you have that, for those

that are looking, remember some people are listening so they can't see it.

But over your right shoulder, there's a collection, there's a

big, I'm assuming a Goliath there.

And, there's a bit of a predator.

look to it, look at the glowing stuff there.

So talk us through it.

For those that might be listening.

We have, two different lines of products.

Ones are the minis as you see here.

This is Noah with his colors.

This is Gideon.

those small three inch figures, what I'm holding here, they're key chains.

Actually.

You can wear 'em around.

So there's a little fashion aspect to it, like labu Boost, you know,

they are easier to make, I think more affordable price point where

it can get out to the mass market.

And these are again, our toys that come out of that, that were designed

by me, that are gonna be produced for people to compete against Laboo, right?

They have their own little look appeal, but we also have the larger line.

I'll show it.

There's that 20 inch Goliath, which is like $1,500 made of resin.

And this is David.

He comes with this thing.

He has the verse that is most appropriate for him.

He has his thing.

17. They're good.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

So he has a little jet pack.

So he has a short range flying capacity.

But the whole, idea behind ancients the storyline we're building, the origin

story is a technology called Luminar, which lights their eyes and their hair.

This predator hair looking, the tendrils in the back.

These are robots that are built, that are run by spirits.

The actual spirit of David is here fighting Goliath in today's time.

there's a whole science behind it.

Goliath and the evil guys were, built by a professor who stole the

technology from the company who were trying to bring up the spirits.

And they all know that only biblical spirits are strong

enough to revive, right?

But the technology is supernatural.

Bio Robotics, which is what we call si, right?

Supernatural Intelligence and what Professor Ball does,

he steals it and he uses ai.

So it is supernatural intelligence versus ai.

'cause AI has a lot of negative connotations today, taking over jobs.

Yeah.

They don't know how far it's gonna go, if they could even control

it in the next five or 10 years.

So yeah, there's good and evil, there's ais, even though I use it.

I use chat GPTA lot, right?

I do too.

so, so you've got the basic good versus evil, but what you're doing is you're

bringing it to a modern story with a very cool and robotic look to it.

Like I said, there's sort of a, I hope that's not a bad thing.

If I say there's a predator look, that actually has more of

a squared look on that one you're

Oh,

in your hand.

these are the mini versions.

And you, you see the mini versions here is three inches.

This the largest, that's 14 inches tall.

But yeah, the predator, look, I love predator.

I grew up and everything I put, I love dry octopuses.

And, um, growing up and then, uh, when I saw these visions 12 years ago, man,

I mean, it makes 'em look original.

And it can you imagine Samson is gonna have longer hair than

the rest of them later on.

And then the, the, the female figurines have longer hair, longer ones.

You see it.

Oh, yeah,

is Rahab.

Look at that with the red Rahab.

those are really cool.

so here's the, I can really appreciate creativity, business

models and things like that, but my mind doesn't think in terms of even

collectibles or toys or anything like that, but I could appreciate it.

And so the thing that kinda keeps coming to my mind is kind of what we were talking

about earlier with the, the Ninja Turtles.

is the story, and I believe you've said that still being developed.

Is that correct?

Are you still, I mean, there's some baseline to it, but you're

still working on story, correct?

I mean, we're working on the story Bible.

not the Bible, we know it, but in the industry, they call it the story Bible,

Yeah.

the, the universe where they exist, their personality and the landscape

of where the story takes place.

They have to know it.

they have to know the personality of each of these characters.

And we happen to have a lot of characters.

It's gonna take a little more time, but there are, companies

out there asking for it.

we have a lot of interest.

simply because it does have Bible reference to it, this might be

we're praying and we believe to be the biggest Bible based.

Pop franchise perhaps right.

Sure, but here's the thing with this type stuff, and I know you would agree

with this, it's got to have an appeal.

I don't wanna say for the general public, that may not be the right term.

but like you mentioned earlier with your kids, if you gave them the

traditional, I call it flannelgraph, that dates me and tells how old I am,

David and Goliath, you know, wearing the loin cloth, looking like, you know,

truthfully, someone from, 1000 BC that, you know, the kids would probably look

at it and go, oh yeah, that's great.

Not, not super cool.

The stuff over your shoulder there.

Something that would be a, that would've a cool appeal to, I hate to say just

heathens, but let's just say someone who's not looking for necessarily Bible stuff,

but they would go, you know what, that's kind of a cool looking thing there it is.

That correct?

the original idea was to appeal to the believers who want something for.

their family that is not Spider-Man or, or Batman or, but the more

we started building these out, we wanted to appeal to everyone.

And the idea is, let's say it becomes super popular, right?

We have, we have a built-in audience.

We feel the believers, the people who want this for their kids so we can

be successful just on them, right?

but then we, if it starts to grow that way, it will catch the eyes of other kids.

They don't wanna be left out like they don't know anything about

the Bible, but they want it.

And that's the goal to get a, character of David.

They'll be curious, what is this?

Who is this guy?

And there is a, there are verses you can read about them.

So imagine if it does go, does go global.

That's my mission, to get people to be looking in the Bible, to learn about

these characters and, see who they are.

And I want to, you know, how many characters can I make that's, I think

that can make thousands of 'em in the long run, but that I'm having fun with it.

I'm having a, a lot of fun with it and I, I'm trying to seek,

go and create with all this.

I love that.

Thanks for working that in.

it sounds as if I'm actually working on a similar project right now, kind

of creating this alternate universe that has a foundation in scripture.

I've been doing a lot of writing and studying in the first century around the

time all the New Testament was written, I'm actually working on some fiction

that revolves around, mine's probably a little bit closer to scripture.

Yours is you are taking a separate universe, which I

think has massive appeal.

Kinda my close to my last question here.

This kinda stuff's really hard.

not easy.

So to talk candidly about how hard it is, and then with that go into

almost either a prayer or a request of what is it that you really need

now at this stage of this project.

So how hard is it?

Yeah, I mean, the hardest part of anything is trying to gain popularity, right?

And when you first do something, we all have our goals.

We set milestones.

Okay.

Like Comic Con, we're supposed to do this, Kickstarter, we're supposed to do this.

almost nothing comes according to plan, right?

you've done businesses, so, you know, so we have a year,

one goal, a year or two goal.

I think it is very rare that at least small companies or startups like us, they

hit those milestones on the Right mark.

But what I'm learning is, a lot of times we spend too much

money and time on something.

It doesn't end up what we were anticipating.

We're hoping to get all the Christian communities to come and support us,

but it didn't come out that way.

Only a few did.

maybe they don't find it interesting or whatever, but like Kickstarter, we haven't

found their audience yet, the great part is what happens when you're going for

those milestones, those markers, other things happen that we didn't expect.

Right.

the Kickstarter, didn't hit the real goals that we were hoping to make,

but because we had that deadline, we got so much done a lot more than we

would have if we didn't do Kickstarter.

So we're just getting surprised at every turn.

And it is really hard, not hitting those milestones or the goals or the money that

you're trying to get to as a business.

But the exciting part is what happens because of that.

And, our goal was not to, we wouldn't think any toy companies would

be interested in talking to us.

Until we gain fame or popularity, for a faith-based toy to come into something,

especially in this political and, America the way it is today, right?

to take, trying to take God out of the, out of everything.

So we know the challenges, we know that, that's why you don't see

biblical toys out there being popular, but something that's happening is

just the economy, right?

Maybe they're looking for something new, something exciting, and we're already

talking to toy companies, you know, like these are things, if we didn't

do Kickstarter to me, I, we did make our goal, but I consider our failure

'cause we, I didn't make our millions.

Right.

But you're kind of depressed.

Oh man.

We did it, we have all this available.

We did everything to market ourselves.

Get out there and we did catch the eyes of multiple toy companies and

they're already interested in it.

And because of what the world's going through, they're looking for new stuff.

And we go to a Comic-Con, and a lot of people would complain

that, hey, you know, I've been coming to Comic-Con for 20 years.

How many more Supermans can we see?

How many more backmans?

I'm glad you're doing something new.

They're looking for something new and something exciting.

But most people are afraid to do something like this because

number one, they can't afford it.

We couldn't afford it, but we somehow found a way to do it.

you have to have that faith and you have to take the risk.

I was never afraid of becoming homeless.

I don't care, man.

I just put it all out.

I'm a gambler by heart.

I'll do it.

And if I end up in the streets or I end up with zero, hey, that's

a great time to rebuild, right?

So, I mean, I guess that's the mind you gotta have.

You're also an entrepreneur.

You gotta have that mindset.

not being afraid to fail to do something like this.

Yeah, that, that's so good.

And you know, you're so right.

It's like, I get confused at times every time a new Superman movie

comes out, because I'm going, they told this story before?

I mean, are they, I I had a friend Lee York, I don't know if he listens in here,

but I knew him in the early eighties and he was sort of, uh, was optimistic,

but he had a pessimistic side to him.

And one of, one of the things he told me, and I still remember it to this

day, he said, all the ideas have been come up with, he goes, you know, people

have come up with all the shows and tv and every time I see something

recycled, I think of what Lee said.

And then I talk to Howard and I look over your right shoulder and I go, I

haven't ever seen anything like that.

And that excites me I'm pulling for it.

and I want tell people as we finish up here, 'cause you've got a website, you've

got some things that could go check out.

Just tell people where they can go to air quotes here, support or just keep up with

what's going on and maybe be a part of it.

Yeah, I mean it's very simple.

ancients.com with a z ancients.

Z everything sounds cooler with a Z, right?

Ancients with a Z.

it pulled up here.

Yeah.

a cool

site.

Ancients com

we'll include links and everything to that.

And I think I've joined the, there's an email list there I think so people

can stay up to date and I'm sure you'll let people know what's going on and

Yeah.

Correct.

we have our Instagram, Facebook, and everything, but Instagram's our main

point of, showing people what's happening.

we're building a six and a half foot David character right now for

Designer Con, which is next week.

We're not even ready for it.

I gotta paint it and everything.

There's a lot of work that goes behind what we're trying to do.

I mean, we don't know where we're going, but we're going Right.

And we're seeking,

That's awesome.

So, Howard Quigley, Chang, man, pulling for you and anxious with a z.com

if you've been, intrigued by this definitely go to the website, check

out all that he's doing and connect.

I'm sure that if you're listening in you've got a boatload of money

sitting in some account and you want to invest in something, I'm sure that

Howard would love to talk to you.

Am I correct Howard?

Yeah, sir. Hey.

if Scotty Scheffler or anybody knows him is listening, I'd like to make a custom

Scotty Scheffler warrior version of it with Taylor made Nike and your clubs.

And I want to present it to you.

Tim Tebow, if you're listening, I wanna do it for you.

So.

That'd be awesome.

So anyway, check this out.

I love the obviously the seek go create tie in that Howard brought up.

But I just love when I see creative things, especially that are inspired,

we'll call 'em divinely inspired things.

So thanks for listening in here at Seek Go Create.

We've got new episodes every Monday.

I am hopeful that you watched this episode on YouTube because it had visuals.

If you've gotten to the end and you're on the audio, you may want to jump

over to YouTube and check out some of the things that are behind Howard

as he's been going through this.

So anyway, thanks for joining us here on Seek Go Create.

We will see you next week.